@@ReySkywalker2 1. Exceptionally talented. Outshines established characters in their core competencies, even when they have practiced these skills for far longer. Inexplicable proficiency in skills and abilities. 2. No consequences. Overcomes obstacles (usually without assistance) with little difficulty or struggle. Does not suffer any significant loss. 3. Unreasonably virtuous. Possessed of inner goodness and morality. 4. Well liked by established characters. 5. No discernable flaws or weaknesses. Pretty much a textbook Mary Sue.
@ And none of those apply to Rey. 1) She isn’t exceptionally talented and never outshines the OT characters, in fact, they guide her. Her skills and abilities all have valid explanations and are not “inexplicable”. The video were on proved this. 2) Rey suffers countless consequences, from being tortured in TFA by Kylo, then tortured again by Snoke and tortured a third time by Palpatine. She struggled in all her duels, even loses a duel. She loses everyone she loves apart from Finn, Chewie and Poe. Her parents, both her Jedi masters and Han who she saw as a father figure. What rubbish are you saying? 3) This is only as true for Rey Skywalker as it is for Luke Skywalker. L 4) Han doesn’t like Rey until she proves herself, Luke hates Rey for 90% of their shared screentime, Palpatine hates Rey and wants to use her only as a vessel for his spirit. Another L. 5) Rey has several key, huge and well developed flaws and weaknesses. Her key character flaw is her core belief of self worthlessness and the chronic toxic shame that comes with that, a permanent sense of unworthiness and inadequacy that is at the very core of Rey’s entire character arc. She is also incredibly impulsive, naive, quite narrow minded and black and white, and craves external validation and approval leading her to be easily manipulated by Kylo, Snoke and Palpatine. Rey is not only obviously, objectively not a Mary Sue but she’s less of a Mary Sue than Anakin and Luke by FAR. Case closed.
@@nocrtname none of those apply to Rey. 1) She isn’t exceptionally talented and never outshines the OT characters, in fact, they guide her. Her skills and abilities all have valid explanations and are not “inexplicable”. The video were on proved this. 2) Rey suffers countless consequences, from being tortured in TFA by Kylo, then tortured again by Snoke and tortured a third time by Palpatine. She struggled in all her duels, even loses a duel. She loses everyone she loves apart from Finn, Chewie and Poe. Her parents, both her Jedi masters and Han who she saw as a father figure. What rubbish are you saying? 3) This is only as true for Rey Skywalker as it is for Luke Skywalker. L 4) Han doesn’t like Rey until she proves herself, Luke hates Rey for 90% of their shared screentime, Palpatine hates Rey and wants to use her only as a vessel for his spirit. Another L. 5) Rey has several key, huge and well developed flaws and weaknesses. Her key character flaw is her core belief of self worthlessness and the chronic toxic shame that comes with that, a permanent sense of unworthiness and inadequacy that is at the very core of Rey’s entire character arc. She is also incredibly impulsive, naive, quite narrow minded and black and white, and craves external validation and approval leading her to be easily manipulated by Kylo, Snoke and Palpatine. Rey is not only obviously, objectively not a Mary Sue but she’s less of a Mary Sue than Anakin and Luke by FAR. Case closed.
@@ReySkywalker2 1. She knows how to fix the Millenium Falcon better than Han Solo. That right there is actually the most Mary Sue moment in all the trilogy, because there was no purpose for that scene except to show how much better she was than he. It could have been cut and nothing would have changed, at all. 2. She doesn't suffer consequences. She reverses Kylo Ren's mind probe, and she walks out of the fights with Snoke and Kylo Ren unscathed aside from a little scratch. She frees herself from being captured using the mind trick (and is such a genius she can do it naturally). She doesn't _have_ anyone; at the start of the film, she's a loner. She knew Han for about two minutes, same for Luke. 3. Han asks Rey to join him. Finn's entire focus is on Rey. Even Kylo Ren wants her. 4. This isn't true, as soon as we are introduced to the character, she looks down on in the first person she meets, the scavenger who wanted BB-8. She's not manipulated by Kylo Ren, Snoke, or Palpatine, in fact resisting or overcoming all of them. Sure she gets tossed around a little bit by Snoke, but that's obviously not a problem because she's fit enough to fight off the red guards immediately after that, and then best Kylo Ren in their matchup. There isn't really a comparison. Luke's recklessness causes him all sorts of trouble. He loses to the tusken raiders, gets in over his head at the cantina and has to be rescued, nearly gets blown up in the dogfight over the death star and has to be rescued again, loses to the yeti and has to be rescued again, loses an arm to Vader and has to be rescued again... Anakin is a tragic figure, almost the opposite of a Mary Sue. Despite his efforts to the contrary, he loses everything and ends up living a half-life of suffering and pain.
Whenever I hear people say that Rey isn't a Mary Sue or that the Disney films are good, all it proves is that they have no idea about basic writing and storytelling elements. To quote an actually well-written, complex, and beloved female character from Sci-fi - “Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?”
Rey is not even close to a Mary Sue. When people say that Rey is a Mary Sue or the Sequels are bad, it PROVES that they have no idea about writing, storytelling, character arcs or thematic depth.😊
@@ReySkywalker2 She IS a Mary Sue. Trying to dismiss everyone who says as much as "biased" or "sexist" is exactly why people laugh at this argument A Mary Sue is a character who excels at everything they do right off the bat for no real reason or explanation. That fits Rey to a T She never flew a ship, but somehow pulled off incredible piloting skills and managed to fly it. She instantly knew how to solve a problem with the Falcon that the guy who lived in it for decades. You could argue that since she spent her life taking that star destroyer apart that she would know, but that's like saying because you took a battleship apart over the course of 10 years that you know how a tank works. She didn't even know what the force was and yet mastered pulling information from Kylo's mind despite him having years of training and her never having even heard of the force. Then she magically learned the mind trick despite JUST having figured out about the force and never even being told this power existed. Then she beats Kylo in saber combat despite all the training he's had. People will cite Kylo's wound or his wild slashing as detriments to him during that fight, but that's wrong. First, it's a long known fact that pain makes sith stronger(which is why he keeps beating the wound). Second, he wasn't swinging wildly. He was mimicking how Vader fought. It was a very deliberate fighting style. Kylo has had YEARS of training and he had a very powerful force connection that he trained YEARS to control....and then Rey comes along and bests him with relative ease. Then TLJ comes out and she manages to squeeze in roughly 30 seconds of training with Luke and gets even stronger. I'm not even exaggerating. The timeline of TLJ is in a matter of hours and the scene we see of Luke training her first is clearly the first time they did anything and she just sat still for about 30 seconds while he messed with her. Then he refused to train her more. So she basically got 30 seconds of training. she then went on to easily kill highly trained body guards and overpowered Kylo in force ability again. You could argue that Rey's staff helped her with her combat, but that wouldn't really help as much as you'd think. Being in combat would help with reflexes, but not the way she fought. She was used to a heavy electric staff that had very specific "danger" points on it. A lightsaber is very lightweight and the "danger" point on it is the entire blade where even touching something causes damage. It's like saying an archer would be good with a sword because they fought by shooting arrows. The weapons and the ways you use them are so vastly different that they wouldn't translate well This isn't "double standards", guy. If Luke or Anakin had done crap like that, people would have ragged on them too Anakin and Luke were powerful due to their connections, but being powerful is not the same as skilled. Any character can have great potential, but how they reach their potential is how it matters. Anakin had to lose many pod races before he won the one in the movie. His pod racing skills translated to his fumbling in the starship where he blew up the command ship. He clearly still did not know how to pilot that ship(because he never flew one before), but could at least steer and had R2 to help him. Fast forward to episode 2. It's been literal YEARS of Anakin training as a Jedi. Of course there's going to be a leap in skill level. What does it get him? He's constantly fumbling. He drops his saber chasing Zam, he breaks his saber after nearly being maimed in the droid factory, then loses to Dooku which costs him his arm. Fast forward to 3 where he's had even more training and experience. His skills improved greatly due to training and experience. He beats Dooku, but only after tapping into the dark side. Then he loses to Obi-Wan. Not really a great argument to make for him being a Mary Sue when he suffers so many losses For Luke, he spent most of his youth flying his T-16, so he's got piloting skills. He specifically mentions this multiple times in 4. So him being good with flying is established due to his experience and practice over the years. Skip to 5 and he's done some minor training on his own and then a few months of training with Yoda....and it culminates to him losing his first real fight at the cost of his arm. Even Yoda notes that Luke failed a lot during their training. Luke struggled to get where he got during 5. In 6, he BARELY beats Vader and it was mostly due to the shock of the sudden shift in the fight The differences between Luke/Anakin and Rey is that Luke and Anakin had REASONS for why they were the way they were and they still weren't wining. They actually LOST a lot in the movies. Rey never lost and her skills/abilities were never earned. She just had them from the start For Morgan Freeman's sake, even WIKIPEDIA, a well noted biased mess, specifically lists REY on their page for Mary Sues. She is probably the biggest Mary Sue in all mainstream media. she never lost, she never struggled, she just mastered everything for no real reason and beat everyone at whatever she tried
She IS a Mary Sue. Trying to dismiss everyone who says as much as "biased" or "sexist" is exactly why people laugh at this argument A Mary Sue is a character who excels at everything they do right off the bat for no real reason or explanation. That fits Rey to a T She never flew a ship, but somehow pulled off incredible piloting skills and managed to fly it. She instantly knew how to solve a problem with the Falcon that the guy who lived in it for decades. You could argue that since she spent her life taking that star destroyer apart that she would know, but that's like saying because you took a battleship apart over the course of 10 years that you know how a tank works. She didn't even know what the force was and yet mastered pulling information from Kylo's mind despite him having years of training and her never having even heard of the force. Then she magically learned the mind trick despite JUST having figured out about the force and never even being told this power existed. Then she beats Kylo in saber combat despite all the training he's had. People will cite Kylo's wound or his wild slashing as detriments to him during that fight, but that's wrong. First, it's a long known fact that pain makes sith stronger(which is why he keeps beating the wound). Second, he wasn't swinging wildly. He was mimicking how Vader fought. It was a very deliberate fighting style. Kylo has had YEARS of training and he had a very powerful force connection that he trained YEARS to control....and then Rey comes along and bests him with relative ease. Then TLJ comes out and she manages to squeeze in roughly 30 seconds of training with Luke and gets even stronger. I'm not even exaggerating. The timeline of TLJ is in a matter of hours and the scene we see of Luke training her first is clearly the first time they did anything and she just sat still for about 30 seconds while he messed with her. Then he refused to train her more. So she basically got 30 seconds of training. she then went on to easily kill highly trained body guards and overpowered Kylo in force ability again. You could argue that Rey's staff helped her with her combat, but that wouldn't really help as much as you'd think. Being in combat would help with reflexes, but not the way she fought. She was used to a heavy electric staff that had very specific "danger" points on it. A lightsaber is very lightweight and the "danger" point on it is the entire blade where even touching something causes damage. It's like saying an archer would be good with a sword because they fought by shooting arrows. The weapons and the ways you use them are so vastly different that they wouldn't translate well This isn't "double standards", guy. If Luke or Anakin had done crap like that, people would have ragged on them too Anakin and Luke were powerful due to their connections, but being powerful is not the same as skilled. Any character can have great potential, but how they reach their potential is how it matters. Anakin had to lose many pod races before he won the one in the movie. His pod racing skills translated to his fumbling in the starship where he blew up the command ship. He clearly still did not know how to pilot that ship(because he never flew one before), but could at least steer and had R2 to help him. Fast forward to episode 2. It's been literal YEARS of Anakin training as a Jedi. Of course there's going to be a leap in skill level. What does it get him? He's constantly fumbling. He drops his saber chasing Zam, he breaks his saber after nearly being maimed in the droid factory, then loses to Dooku which costs him his arm. Fast forward to 3 where he's had even more training and experience. His skills improved greatly due to training and experience. He beats Dooku, but only after tapping into the dark side. Then he loses to Obi-Wan. Not really a great argument to make for him being a Mary Sue when he suffers so many losses For Luke, he spent most of his youth flying his T-16, so he's got piloting skills. He specifically mentions this multiple times in 4. So him being good with flying is established due to his experience and practice over the years. Skip to 5 and he's done some minor training on his own and then a few months of training with Yoda....and it culminates to him losing his first real fight at the cost of his arm. Even Yoda notes that Luke failed a lot during their training. Luke struggled to get where he got during 5. In 6, he BARELY beats Vader and it was mostly due to the shock of the sudden shift in the fight The differences between Luke/Anakin and Rey is that Luke and Anakin had REASONS for why they were the way they were and they still weren't wining. They actually LOST a lot in the movies. Rey never lost and her skills/abilities were never earned. She just had them from the start For Morgan Freeman's sake, even WIKIPEDIA, a well noted biased mess, specifically lists REY on their page for Mary Sues. She is probably the biggest Mary Sue in all mainstream media. she never lost, she never struggled, she just mastered everything for no real reason and beat everyone at whatever she tried
I'll add to this, provided this channel doesn't delete my comment. Luke constantly fails throughout the trilogy, and when we first meet him, he isn't some epic survivalist-he's just a normal teenager who is a dreamer, a bit whiny, and very naive. He's subservient to his uncle and his aunt. He actually rejects the call to adventure because of his commitments to his family. Sure, he wants to leave, but he realistically can't. It's only after he loses his guardians that he is able to go with Ben. He and Han are antagonistic towards each other - "Watch your mouth, kid, or you'll find yourself floating back home!" As the movie goes on, they develop an actual friendship which continues to grow throughout the rest of the trilogy. In The Empire Strikes Back, he nearly dies, is saved by Han, is shot down during the battle of Hoth, fails to lift the X-Wing out of the Swamp, is constantly plagued by doubt, is seduced by the Darkside (the Cave), and Yoda basically calls him a screw-up. As for the fight with Vader, well, Vader wasn't trying to actually fight him. If you watch the fight, you'll observe that Vader only uses one hand, even though his fighting style is two-handed. The second Luke gets an honest hit on Vader, Vader loses his temper, starts to fight properly, and proceeds to chop Luke's hand off. Speaking of which. What was his reason for going to Bespin? Oh right, to save Han, Leia, and Chewie. What does he not do? Save Han, Chewie, and Leia - actually they have to save him! Even in the RotJ, Jabba laughs at Luke and doesn't take him seriously. This is why Luke is beloved. He developed, he grew, and we got to watch it. He is an actual character. Rey, is just a Mary Sue. Handed everything, earned nothing.
But he does this accidentally, and it's R2D2 who mostly drives the ship. Plus let's remind you what he has become, what choices he has made, and what traits of character he had. Anakin is DEFINITELY NOT a Mary Sue.
The fact that you too the time to write this very long and good comment which doesn't have a single flaw shows you know what you are talking about. I definitely agree with you.
I thought this video was a joke based on the title and thumbnail, but it turns out that the real joke is you. Actually shameful takes, blaming racism and sexism when the culprit is terrible writing. Are you literally working on a star wars show rn? Idk how anyone who isn't getting paid could say anything you're on about.
No one disliked The Acolyte because of sexism or racism. They disliked it because it was a terrible show about space witches, a trope fans have disliked since the regrettable “Courtship of Princess Leia” that Disney keeps returning to.
@ The Courtship of Princess Leia was a novel that introduced the witches of Dathomir, and the idiotic concept of force witches was started. It also feature Han Solo using what could be described as a date rape gun to kidnap Leia against her will. It was pretty awful.
It is not racism or sexism that is clouding judgement. It is, in fact, a critical understanding of The Hero's Journey and what makes epic, compelling narratives and characters. Anakin wasn't a "Mary Sue" archetype for destroying the bulk of the droid army or his participation in the battle over Nabu because it was already established that Anakin was an adept pilot and had been using his force sensitivity in pod racing for years. As stated, Anakin acknowledged he was the only human on Tatooine who could do it. So anakin being able to pilot a fighter was not as steep a learning curve as you think it is for him to just suddenly be good at it with no reason. Rey on the other hand seemed to have all this battle experience and force knowledge implanted in her mind by virtue of being related to Palpatine. Lastly the nature of risk and loss. Anakin was warned about his emotions, then still succumbed to the temptation of the Dark Side after his mother died, then failed in his duel with Dooku, losing a hand and nearly losing his best friend and mentor. Later Anakin would prove how far he had progressed in becoming one of the best Lightsaber duelists. Luke would later follow a similar path, being warned that leaving his training early would lead to loss. In his duel against Vader, Luke would likewise lose a hand and also his best friend and comrade, Han. Only to return triumphant after finishing his training and rescuing his friends. Rey never risked much, she never lost anything of value or worth that would push or galvanize her into a hero. This is a classic example of when a story moves the characters, as opposed to the story being moved BY the characters.
"allow things like racism or sexism to cloud their judgment" Here is a crazy idea, maybe people just don't like shitty writing? There are so many movies with white male protagonists that get bashed cause they suck and are boring, Morbius and the recent Jurassic World movies are just some examples. Yet this is what people like you do. Jump to the conclusion that people don't like it cause of race or gender. If that's the truth, what about other female Star Wars characters that people like? Padme? Ahsoka? Leia? Hera? Ahsoka in particular is one of the most well written characters in the franchise throughout the Clone Wars. Some of the most popular movies of all time have prominent female roles such as Terminator 2 and Aliens. And even though it's animated, the original Mulan is a great movie and Mulan is a very likeable and believable protagonist. Why? Because she has to struggle and learn throughout a stressful process of war and isn't perfect right off the bat. A lot of the issues people have with Mulan in the remake are the same they have with Rey. Boring ass character that has no flaws. Character growth is one of the most important things in a movie, and Rey is significantly lacking. Your argument has no legs to stand on.
Nah, Star Wars fans just hate women - like Leia, Mara Jade, Ahsoka, Winter, Jania Solo, Mon Mothma, Admiral Daala, Oola, Darth Talon, Cara Dune, Jan Ors, Aayla Secura - I mean, the Star Wars fans just hate these women so much....
Listen. I was a huge Rey defender through episode VII. I agree they did their best to explain her feats in that one. The Jedi Mind trick one was pretty shaky still though, but I could forgive one instance. They also set up some flaws for her like her being reckless (when she released the Rathtars by pulling random fuses, or when she just ripped the compressor out) but I could forgive that those ended up being consequence free because they were going for a light tone in episode VII. She should not have stayed consequence free in episode VIII and IX though. Firstly her feats are less justifiable in this one. She ends up beating Luke, still with no training. While we don't really ever get a sense of the power level of the royal guards the fact that they lightsaber like weapons would indicate they are supposed to fight Jedi, and she beats them again with no training. She lifts up a massive amount of rocks again with no training (this is the most direct example of her just power creeping Luke who heavily struggled to lift the X-Wing and ultimately failed after a lot of training.) She finally gets some training in Episode 9, and apparently this is enough for her to channel "all of the Jedi" and overpower a juiced up Palpatine. Meanwhile her recklessness proves to be a fake flaw that is never punished the entire series. In Episode VIII, she goes straight to the dark side when she is observing the island with the force. This is simply not followed up on. She never shows any temptation for evil or adverse effects from this, despite Luke's worry. She leaves the island without ever getting any real training paralleling when Luke left Dagobah with his training incomplete. However, she saves her friends and is not punished for her recklessness, unlike Luke who loses an arm and fails to save Han. Her rampant use of force powers she doesn't understand looks like it is going to be punished when she kills Chewbacca, only to have it be revealed that that was a different ship and thus, still no consequence for any of her flaws. Luke has far more failures by comparison. Both Luke and Anakin's failures do not have notable consequences in the first one, but they certainly do as the trilogies go on. Luke's feats are more understandable as well. He had spent time bull-eyeing womp rats which were of a similar size to the death star weak point. Anakin's feats are probably more on par with Rey's but he has much more flaws in the way of character. And he also loses a lot, both to Count Dooku in episode 2 and Obi-Wan in episode 3. It's not a sexism thing to think Rey is a Mary Sue and the other 2 weren't. I was not rooting for the sequels to fail either. I wanted them to be better. I walked out of the theater at episode 8 confused because I hadn't enjoyed it, but the idea of me not liking a Star Wars movie was so foreign to me that I just assumed it would grow on me. I'll even say at the end of the day I actually like Rey still. I think that is mostly due to how charming Daisy Ridley's portrayal is. But a Mary Sue is an criticism of the story not properly challenging a character.
Stop it already. Nobody wants to read that many words on youtube. Ever. And guaranteed everyone, like me, stopped reading after "I was a huge Rey defender" 😅 just ew
wow... this is bullshit, and are you going to tell me that she has to rob every trait of every character to not being a Mary sue? She is good in everything and didn't sacrifice anything to get to that. Rey
Aw, cute, the little basement contrarian wanted to rage bait some ppl You have my sympathies, here's a like and the attention you were so desperate for
This is not a video essay. If you want to prove she isn’t a Mary sue define what a Mary sue is, give your reasoning for why she isn’t one, and give examples of moments that align with your reasoning. Using the minority of fans that are sexist to paint all criticism of Rey as sexist a is a massive logical fallacy. This is basic debate taught to literal middle schoolers and shows you lack fundamental concepts of methodus.
I’m not sure if this satirical or serious but this video really didn’t meaningfully address anything significant as to why people refer to her as a Mary sue. Frankly a lot of Star Wars has poor writing and Disney wasn’t the first to write poorly in the Star Wars universe but with how poorly and surface level Rey is as a character, it’s hard to not view Ray as a Mary sue, or at least as terribly written.
I’ll add to that by saying that although she may not be a mary sue in the traditional sense, but they’re still a poorly written character, primarily in that they’re barely fleshed out, if even at all (even in spite of whatever potential they had w/ setting her up as being the granddaughter of Palpatine)
You can cry she isnt a mary sue all you want but the facts don't change. There is nothing cultural about this slate. Just another activist who starts off with an attempt at character assassination of greater minds. She's a fanfic character who is great at everything, has no real character development, no from zero to hero path, etc. Basically the LA mulan, unlike the original disney mulan who actually is a character. Grow a pair and stop this pandering, please.
Rey can fly, fight, Jedi, and fix anything. She is perfect in everything she tries and captures the roles of the 4 main characters of the OT. She never fails at anything she tries and has no arc. Luke and anakin both lose at least once in their story. Rey beats the emo boy in 7, kills the puppet in 8 and saved the not-rebels, and in 9 she saves someone who Luke freaking Skywalker gave up on. Then to top it off she comes back to life and takes on the skywalker name after being a direct cause for all of their deaths
Here's the answer to Anakin and Luke having such a strong connection to the Force. Anakin is the "Chosen One" and Luke is his son and redeemer, that's how destiny works. Qui-Gon explained how Anakin was stronger in the Force than Yoda and every other Jedi in Episode One, or did you forget to watch that movie. Don't get me started on how Rey knows more about the Millenium Falcon than Han Solo in Episode 7, can lift a mountain worth of rocks in Episode 8, and somehow know how to sail a boat thing in Episode 9, even though she grew up on a desert planet. You mentioned the novelization so lets refer to books for the originals, Luke knew how to fly the X-Wing because it's design is similar to the T-16 Skyhopper he flew back on Tatooine and it's also the training vehicle used by the Rebels. He explained to Wedge that he could bullseye Wamp rats since they are only 2 meters wide, Obi-Wan encouraged Luke to use the Force when firing the torpedo's and it worked. How much were you paid to make this video...
LMAO, Rey is a textbook Mary Sue, she has never flown a ship before, I guess she can not only fly but also engineer the ship better than Han who owned it for decades. Never been in a sword fight guess she will outduel everyone. Never been trained in the force, here are more abilities used stronger than experienced and powerful dark and light side force users. Such a shitty vid of just pure cope
Also always amusing that these people cannot possibly fathom that someone just...doesn't like them. They have to concoct these reasons, usually baseless or flat-out irrational, in order to come to the conclusion that they like a movie most people don't. It's like they can't cope... over a movie. A movie! It's just a movie, so what if people hated it?! Impossible expectations, grifting hate for splash headlines, or the age-old broken record of "bigotry," note how he never once mentions Occam's razor-maybe most people just thought they sincerely sucked. Oh no, they couldn't possibly just be poorly written. No. Must be that Nazi cult that infiltrated SW fandom with their media pull on RUclips, eh? ...irrational, ridiculous nonsense from an irrational, ridiculous man who merely THINKS he's spouted something "profound" but just regurgitated and xerox-copied that same broken record of all Disney shills. The second you start labeling things sexist when they're not...you lose your audience. This tactic doesn't work anymore. It's beating a dead horse that people see through now. Mary Sue is not nor has ever been a sexist term. You merely want it to be to validate YOUR argument...which has no solid basis in much of anything. It's mostly nothing but nonsensical wailing insults toward a crowd of people that simply just disagree with you on a film...and the tactic of the intellectually vapid is to toss around insults over substance. And that's all you've ultimately done. If you know what's good for you, hang this RUclips thing up now; it doesn't suit you.
Terrible take. How did Anakin fly a ship Guess what he’s the Chosen one he has a literal explanation to why he does what he does with the force! What does Rey have? Oh right she’s a Girlboss. The story ended with anakin bringing balance to the force, but here comes the writers changing the original ending to fit Rey in it, changing Luke’s entire personality to make her the Hero. Her grandfather was a clone a non force sensitive clone, (watch the bad batch) she didn’t inherit anything from him. If you knew anything of what you’re talking about you would know that the writers are the problem, and how they write the characters. Maybe you shouldn’t spit on the face of the characters that came before to fit this new trash
Exactly. "mary sue" does not ONLY mean they're naturally good at everything, it also means they are loved by everyone simply for existing. Anakin may have been overpowered from a young age... but he still lost his temper often, failed a bunch, and was not liked by many. Mf straight up became space hitler lmao
Looks like we have another wanton Disney shill over here. Rey Palpatine is the worst, BEST and the most textbook definition of a Mary sue in cinema history from the moment she first touched a lightsaber and became this expert duelist from out of absolutely nowhere.
I wanted to like Rey. From the trailer and even the 1st sequel movie's intro I really liked that she seemed interesting and hopeful. It all quickly came crashing down through the rest of the movie, and the 2 thereafter. Rey is literally one of the characters I dislike the most in all of fiction. She is a noisy, stupidly broken, unlikable, can-do-no-wrong who always gets rewarded by the plot or story for doing stupid things. That is, by the very definition, a Mary Sue.
All they needed to do was copy and paste the Force Unleashed games onto Rey, but told in reverse. In the games you play a son of a Jedi who was taken in and trained by Darth Vader himself. In the sequel, you play as his clone who operated on Force enhanced muscle memory. Galen Merrick was closed on Kamino by Vader. Rey could have been this. Rey could have been the clone and from Rise of Skywalker have Darth Rey be the real Rey. All problems would have been solved by doing this. Also Jakku could have housed and underground cloning facility, explaining why Rey wanted to return to Jakku all the time. Her programming told her to do so. Her interactions with Kylo Ren would have triggered her Force connection that was from the template of Darth Rey. Darth Rey could have been found and trained by Snoke before he met Ben Solo. There, problem solved
Explaining her power isn't the real problem to be honest. A Mary Sue is the less of a criticism of a character, and more of a story that refuses to challenge a character properly. We honestly do see some flaws with Rey. She is reckless, and she is desperate to find her place in the world. Both of these can amount of big failures or flaws, but the story never really punished her. When she leaves her "training" early to save her friends, she just does with no consequence. When she pulls random switches on the Falcon and unleashes the Rathtars, they end up helping more than they hurt. When she uses random force powers that she doesn't understand, Chewbacca wasn't on the ship she destroys. Couple that with her never even entertaining the idea of finding her place with the first order/Dark Side, and we see how her flaws are not really flaws in the context of the story. You could easily write a story that does not change Rey's backstory or skillset at all, and she would not be a Mary Sue. You just have to actually engage with her flaws.
@@jaketerpening3284 While I disagree with most of what you said, I'll respect the fact you've tried to actually engage and present an actually thought-out response. Again, I disagree, but I can say that you at least understand the fundamental issues here and that they go beyond the shallow criticism of the usual apologists. Your comments have been a good read and worthy of consideration. Sort of reminds me of the old Fourms days...
Luke didn’t even swing a saber till the end of empire and that was after training with grandmaster Jedi Yoda for a third of the movie and he lost a hand while losing the fight. Rey, was mindtricking not even halfway into the first movie while girlbossing/mary sue’ing her way through a lightsaber duel with against someone trained by Luke Skywalker for years and it ends in a draw? No, she’s a Mary sue and your channel is now blocked.
Let's be real, it wasn't a draw. she clearly won. Just because the battlefield shifted and stopped her from dealing the ending blow doesn't mean that Kylo wasn't beaten. He had a slash on his face and was down. If the earth hadn't shifted around right then and there, she would have killed him. She won on all accounts. She beat him with practically no effort
There's so much to dislike about everything coming out of Disney Star Wars. It's amusing to see you, trying to pump up subs with this clickbait. I clicked. Your bait worked. Your content is pathetic. Your channel should fail before the new year. Cheers.
Because the premise of this video was such a hot take, with no cogent argument to back it up, I'm pretty sure this was clickbait to get views for this channel. It worked for this posting but it will be ignored from this point on.
Rey is 100 percent a Mary Sue. There is even a video where a guy breaks it down for 20 minutes straight and he is completely correct. I couldn't even find one person who agrees with this Karen narrating this video
It is good to see this coming to light. When writing a script for a video I went back and watched some of her scenes in the Last Jedi and she really is flawed. Her character arc revolves around finding out her place in the galaxy, she feels alone and Kylo even says she is looking for family wherever she goes. Her flaw in this arc is how vunerable she is to being open to others. She seeks family in Han, she seeks family in Kylo, she seeks family in Luke, she seeks family in Leia. And each and everytime they either fall flat or don't last long. And when she finally finds out her family, it is not the family she wants. She eventually finds family in the Jedi Order, and the very end of Rise of Skywalker brings that arc of her character to a close. It is a little cheesey I'll admit, but with her taking up the Skywalker name, it is her sense of belonging. In The Force Awakens she is just wants her family to come back, and she denies the truth favouring her fantasy. She is arguably dislikeable in some aspects of her personality, she doesn't like being told what is against her beliefs, even if they are true. But her heart is in the right place, she wants to help and means well. And I'll never understand the argument of "her not having any combat training" when not only is she shown wielding a staff in the first movie, but her first meeting with Finn is tripping him and putting him at what would be death point if she had a much more lethal weapon. She is also quite a fan girl, and just wants to be normal. She is fine doing her scavenger work, it may not be what she is happiest doing, but she is accepting of it, and when she is told by Maz that she is special and the Skywalker lightsaber calls to her she denies that. In The Last Jedi she is now seeking guidance from Luke. However she keeps having these interactions with Kylo. Kylo is pulling her one way while Luke pulls her the other. Kylo is trying to manipulate her with the truth, while Luke is 'trying' to train her while telling her it is time for the Jedi to die. So it is no wonder she opens up to Kylo. It eventually gets to the point where if Luke wouldn't return, Rey would try to do what he did all those years ago and redeem and Kylo, just like how Luke redeemed Anakin. And she even thinks she succeeds. Until she realises she hasn't, and is heart broken in the moment from the revelation that her family were no one. In The Rise Of Skywalker she is often shown giving into her emotions and not always thinking straight. She eventually becomes so broken she decides that Luke was right. It is only after Luke's guidance she can return and find her place in the galaxy. And yes, she is a Palpatine. A descendant of a Palpatine Strandcast Clone, but still a descendant nonetheless. Palpatine is confirmed by George Lucas to be the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist. Not to mention the mention of Darth Plagueis cheating death was apparently a pointer that Abrams used, using as it as a "set up" for Palpatine's return in ROS, and with that logic, what is to say Palpatine didn't also crack Midichlorian Manipulation, or at least some form of it. We know he wanted to host Rey. Perhaps he was interested in experimenting on her during her youth without her knowing, seeing if she can increase her Midichlorian Count so when he took over her, he could increase his own power. It would make sense. I think people's perception of Rey is either clouded by their view of the rest of the movies (I am a Sequels enjoyer myself, but they aren't perfect movies in anyway. And there are things that flat out make no sense), or they just want something to hate for the sake of having something to hate, which is a shame. The Sequels aren't perfect, but they introduced good ideas that weren't executed the best. Rey has potential, and I think the upcoming Rey film can rectify those 'issues' people had with her. Daisy Ridley has said she wouldn't have returned if the script wasn't good, not to mention we have confirmation Disney is intending to start valuing quality over quantity and to do so they have to pull back on their releases. So it is looking good for the future. But I will say it is probably best to wait those ten years to see the true reception of the new Rey film and the Sequels. It is a running theme for Star Wars that nobody likes them to begin with, but over time they become loved. It happened with the Prequels, its happened to Rebels, its happened to many things.
Look she shouldn't have been. And the first movie alone doesn't make her one. It's the complete disregard for anything after that point that's the issue.
God, this was such a great, and refreshing video to see! As a Rey fan, it's exhausting seeing the same tired, rage filled manchildren wine and complain about Rey! I'd LOVE to see you guys dismantle the "Problems" people have with Reva next! Her treatment from the Fandom is even MORE DISGUSTING than Rey's!
And as someone that hates rey (but loves og trilogy and prequels women so nope not sexist, Rey is a bad character), i love seeing this videos because listening to the mental gymnastics and pouting is entertaining. So please. Continue!
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Rey is an almost textbook Mary Sue.
Rey is not even close to a Mary Sue.
@@ReySkywalker2 1. Exceptionally talented. Outshines established characters in their core competencies, even when they have practiced these skills for far longer. Inexplicable proficiency in skills and abilities.
2. No consequences. Overcomes obstacles (usually without assistance) with little difficulty or struggle. Does not suffer any significant loss.
3. Unreasonably virtuous. Possessed of inner goodness and morality.
4. Well liked by established characters.
5. No discernable flaws or weaknesses.
Pretty much a textbook Mary Sue.
@ And none of those apply to Rey.
1) She isn’t exceptionally talented and never outshines the OT characters, in fact, they guide her. Her skills and abilities all have valid explanations and are not “inexplicable”. The video were on proved this.
2) Rey suffers countless consequences, from being tortured in TFA by Kylo, then tortured again by Snoke and tortured a third time by Palpatine. She struggled in all her duels, even loses a duel. She loses everyone she loves apart from Finn, Chewie and Poe. Her parents, both her Jedi masters and Han who she saw as a father figure. What rubbish are you saying?
3) This is only as true for Rey Skywalker as it is for Luke Skywalker. L
4) Han doesn’t like Rey until she proves herself, Luke hates Rey for 90% of their shared screentime, Palpatine hates Rey and wants to use her only as a vessel for his spirit. Another L.
5) Rey has several key, huge and well developed flaws and weaknesses. Her key character flaw is her core belief of self worthlessness and the chronic toxic shame that comes with that, a permanent sense of unworthiness and inadequacy that is at the very core of Rey’s entire character arc. She is also incredibly impulsive, naive, quite narrow minded and black and white, and craves external validation and approval leading her to be easily manipulated by Kylo, Snoke and Palpatine.
Rey is not only obviously, objectively not a Mary Sue but she’s less of a Mary Sue than Anakin and Luke by FAR.
Case closed.
@@nocrtname none of those apply to Rey.
1) She isn’t exceptionally talented and never outshines the OT characters, in fact, they guide her. Her skills and abilities all have valid explanations and are not “inexplicable”. The video were on proved this.
2) Rey suffers countless consequences, from being tortured in TFA by Kylo, then tortured again by Snoke and tortured a third time by Palpatine. She struggled in all her duels, even loses a duel. She loses everyone she loves apart from Finn, Chewie and Poe. Her parents, both her Jedi masters and Han who she saw as a father figure. What rubbish are you saying?
3) This is only as true for Rey Skywalker as it is for Luke Skywalker. L
4) Han doesn’t like Rey until she proves herself, Luke hates Rey for 90% of their shared screentime, Palpatine hates Rey and wants to use her only as a vessel for his spirit. Another L.
5) Rey has several key, huge and well developed flaws and weaknesses. Her key character flaw is her core belief of self worthlessness and the chronic toxic shame that comes with that, a permanent sense of unworthiness and inadequacy that is at the very core of Rey’s entire character arc. She is also incredibly impulsive, naive, quite narrow minded and black and white, and craves external validation and approval leading her to be easily manipulated by Kylo, Snoke and Palpatine.
Rey is not only obviously, objectively not a Mary Sue but she’s less of a Mary Sue than Anakin and Luke by FAR.
Case closed.
@@ReySkywalker2
1. She knows how to fix the Millenium Falcon better than Han Solo. That right there is actually the most Mary Sue moment in all the trilogy, because there was no purpose for that scene except to show how much better she was than he. It could have been cut and nothing would have changed, at all.
2. She doesn't suffer consequences. She reverses Kylo Ren's mind probe, and she walks out of the fights with Snoke and Kylo Ren unscathed aside from a little scratch. She frees herself from being captured using the mind trick (and is such a genius she can do it naturally). She doesn't _have_ anyone; at the start of the film, she's a loner. She knew Han for about two minutes, same for Luke.
3. Han asks Rey to join him. Finn's entire focus is on Rey. Even Kylo Ren wants her.
4. This isn't true, as soon as we are introduced to the character, she looks down on in the first person she meets, the scavenger who wanted BB-8. She's not manipulated by Kylo Ren, Snoke, or Palpatine, in fact resisting or overcoming all of them. Sure she gets tossed around a little bit by Snoke, but that's obviously not a problem because she's fit enough to fight off the red guards immediately after that, and then best Kylo Ren in their matchup.
There isn't really a comparison. Luke's recklessness causes him all sorts of trouble. He loses to the tusken raiders, gets in over his head at the cantina and has to be rescued, nearly gets blown up in the dogfight over the death star and has to be rescued again, loses to the yeti and has to be rescued again, loses an arm to Vader and has to be rescued again... Anakin is a tragic figure, almost the opposite of a Mary Sue. Despite his efforts to the contrary, he loses everything and ends up living a half-life of suffering and pain.
Shame, How much did Disney pay you to say this?
Whenever I hear people say that Rey isn't a Mary Sue or that the Disney films are good, all it proves is that they have no idea about basic writing and storytelling elements. To quote an actually well-written, complex, and beloved female character from Sci-fi - “Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?”
YES. Thank you for saying this.
Rey is not even close to a Mary Sue.
When people say that Rey is a Mary Sue or the Sequels are bad, it PROVES that they have no idea about writing, storytelling, character arcs or thematic depth.😊
@@ReySkywalker2 troll
@ troll? No, just speaking facts mate. Cope.
@@ReySkywalker2
She IS a Mary Sue. Trying to dismiss everyone who says as much as "biased" or "sexist" is exactly why people laugh at this argument
A Mary Sue is a character who excels at everything they do right off the bat for no real reason or explanation. That fits Rey to a T
She never flew a ship, but somehow pulled off incredible piloting skills and managed to fly it. She instantly knew how to solve a problem with the Falcon that the guy who lived in it for decades. You could argue that since she spent her life taking that star destroyer apart that she would know, but that's like saying because you took a battleship apart over the course of 10 years that you know how a tank works. She didn't even know what the force was and yet mastered pulling information from Kylo's mind despite him having years of training and her never having even heard of the force. Then she magically learned the mind trick despite JUST having figured out about the force and never even being told this power existed. Then she beats Kylo in saber combat despite all the training he's had. People will cite Kylo's wound or his wild slashing as detriments to him during that fight, but that's wrong. First, it's a long known fact that pain makes sith stronger(which is why he keeps beating the wound). Second, he wasn't swinging wildly. He was mimicking how Vader fought. It was a very deliberate fighting style. Kylo has had YEARS of training and he had a very powerful force connection that he trained YEARS to control....and then Rey comes along and bests him with relative ease. Then TLJ comes out and she manages to squeeze in roughly 30 seconds of training with Luke and gets even stronger. I'm not even exaggerating. The timeline of TLJ is in a matter of hours and the scene we see of Luke training her first is clearly the first time they did anything and she just sat still for about 30 seconds while he messed with her. Then he refused to train her more. So she basically got 30 seconds of training. she then went on to easily kill highly trained body guards and overpowered Kylo in force ability again. You could argue that Rey's staff helped her with her combat, but that wouldn't really help as much as you'd think. Being in combat would help with reflexes, but not the way she fought. She was used to a heavy electric staff that had very specific "danger" points on it. A lightsaber is very lightweight and the "danger" point on it is the entire blade where even touching something causes damage. It's like saying an archer would be good with a sword because they fought by shooting arrows. The weapons and the ways you use them are so vastly different that they wouldn't translate well
This isn't "double standards", guy. If Luke or Anakin had done crap like that, people would have ragged on them too
Anakin and Luke were powerful due to their connections, but being powerful is not the same as skilled. Any character can have great potential, but how they reach their potential is how it matters. Anakin had to lose many pod races before he won the one in the movie. His pod racing skills translated to his fumbling in the starship where he blew up the command ship. He clearly still did not know how to pilot that ship(because he never flew one before), but could at least steer and had R2 to help him. Fast forward to episode 2. It's been literal YEARS of Anakin training as a Jedi. Of course there's going to be a leap in skill level. What does it get him? He's constantly fumbling. He drops his saber chasing Zam, he breaks his saber after nearly being maimed in the droid factory, then loses to Dooku which costs him his arm. Fast forward to 3 where he's had even more training and experience. His skills improved greatly due to training and experience. He beats Dooku, but only after tapping into the dark side. Then he loses to Obi-Wan. Not really a great argument to make for him being a Mary Sue when he suffers so many losses
For Luke, he spent most of his youth flying his T-16, so he's got piloting skills. He specifically mentions this multiple times in 4. So him being good with flying is established due to his experience and practice over the years. Skip to 5 and he's done some minor training on his own and then a few months of training with Yoda....and it culminates to him losing his first real fight at the cost of his arm. Even Yoda notes that Luke failed a lot during their training. Luke struggled to get where he got during 5. In 6, he BARELY beats Vader and it was mostly due to the shock of the sudden shift in the fight
The differences between Luke/Anakin and Rey is that Luke and Anakin had REASONS for why they were the way they were and they still weren't wining. They actually LOST a lot in the movies. Rey never lost and her skills/abilities were never earned. She just had them from the start
For Morgan Freeman's sake, even WIKIPEDIA, a well noted biased mess, specifically lists REY on their page for Mary Sues. She is probably the biggest Mary Sue in all mainstream media. she never lost, she never struggled, she just mastered everything for no real reason and beat everyone at whatever she tried
Its been almost 6 years since the sequel trilogy ended and people are *STILL* making these videos. You were wrong then and youre wrong now
No, Rey is not even close to a Mary Sue.
@@ReySkywalker2 kid
@ You’re the kid lol. Zero media literacy. Cope and seethe.
This man's takes are so bad his own music tried to drown him out towards the end.
Rey is the definition of a Mary Sue dude. Cant wait to see you on EFAP
She IS a Mary Sue. Trying to dismiss everyone who says as much as "biased" or "sexist" is exactly why people laugh at this argument
A Mary Sue is a character who excels at everything they do right off the bat for no real reason or explanation. That fits Rey to a T
She never flew a ship, but somehow pulled off incredible piloting skills and managed to fly it. She instantly knew how to solve a problem with the Falcon that the guy who lived in it for decades. You could argue that since she spent her life taking that star destroyer apart that she would know, but that's like saying because you took a battleship apart over the course of 10 years that you know how a tank works. She didn't even know what the force was and yet mastered pulling information from Kylo's mind despite him having years of training and her never having even heard of the force. Then she magically learned the mind trick despite JUST having figured out about the force and never even being told this power existed. Then she beats Kylo in saber combat despite all the training he's had. People will cite Kylo's wound or his wild slashing as detriments to him during that fight, but that's wrong. First, it's a long known fact that pain makes sith stronger(which is why he keeps beating the wound). Second, he wasn't swinging wildly. He was mimicking how Vader fought. It was a very deliberate fighting style. Kylo has had YEARS of training and he had a very powerful force connection that he trained YEARS to control....and then Rey comes along and bests him with relative ease. Then TLJ comes out and she manages to squeeze in roughly 30 seconds of training with Luke and gets even stronger. I'm not even exaggerating. The timeline of TLJ is in a matter of hours and the scene we see of Luke training her first is clearly the first time they did anything and she just sat still for about 30 seconds while he messed with her. Then he refused to train her more. So she basically got 30 seconds of training. she then went on to easily kill highly trained body guards and overpowered Kylo in force ability again. You could argue that Rey's staff helped her with her combat, but that wouldn't really help as much as you'd think. Being in combat would help with reflexes, but not the way she fought. She was used to a heavy electric staff that had very specific "danger" points on it. A lightsaber is very lightweight and the "danger" point on it is the entire blade where even touching something causes damage. It's like saying an archer would be good with a sword because they fought by shooting arrows. The weapons and the ways you use them are so vastly different that they wouldn't translate well
This isn't "double standards", guy. If Luke or Anakin had done crap like that, people would have ragged on them too
Anakin and Luke were powerful due to their connections, but being powerful is not the same as skilled. Any character can have great potential, but how they reach their potential is how it matters. Anakin had to lose many pod races before he won the one in the movie. His pod racing skills translated to his fumbling in the starship where he blew up the command ship. He clearly still did not know how to pilot that ship(because he never flew one before), but could at least steer and had R2 to help him. Fast forward to episode 2. It's been literal YEARS of Anakin training as a Jedi. Of course there's going to be a leap in skill level. What does it get him? He's constantly fumbling. He drops his saber chasing Zam, he breaks his saber after nearly being maimed in the droid factory, then loses to Dooku which costs him his arm. Fast forward to 3 where he's had even more training and experience. His skills improved greatly due to training and experience. He beats Dooku, but only after tapping into the dark side. Then he loses to Obi-Wan. Not really a great argument to make for him being a Mary Sue when he suffers so many losses
For Luke, he spent most of his youth flying his T-16, so he's got piloting skills. He specifically mentions this multiple times in 4. So him being good with flying is established due to his experience and practice over the years. Skip to 5 and he's done some minor training on his own and then a few months of training with Yoda....and it culminates to him losing his first real fight at the cost of his arm. Even Yoda notes that Luke failed a lot during their training. Luke struggled to get where he got during 5. In 6, he BARELY beats Vader and it was mostly due to the shock of the sudden shift in the fight
The differences between Luke/Anakin and Rey is that Luke and Anakin had REASONS for why they were the way they were and they still weren't wining. They actually LOST a lot in the movies. Rey never lost and her skills/abilities were never earned. She just had them from the start
For Morgan Freeman's sake, even WIKIPEDIA, a well noted biased mess, specifically lists REY on their page for Mary Sues. She is probably the biggest Mary Sue in all mainstream media. she never lost, she never struggled, she just mastered everything for no real reason and beat everyone at whatever she tried
Shhh... let the idiot believe that you are a meaniepoopyhead! Great comment though.
I'll add to this, provided this channel doesn't delete my comment. Luke constantly fails throughout the trilogy, and when we first meet him, he isn't some epic survivalist-he's just a normal teenager who is a dreamer, a bit whiny, and very naive. He's subservient to his uncle and his aunt. He actually rejects the call to adventure because of his commitments to his family. Sure, he wants to leave, but he realistically can't. It's only after he loses his guardians that he is able to go with Ben.
He and Han are antagonistic towards each other - "Watch your mouth, kid, or you'll find yourself floating back home!" As the movie goes on, they develop an actual friendship which continues to grow throughout the rest of the trilogy. In The Empire Strikes Back, he nearly dies, is saved by Han, is shot down during the battle of Hoth, fails to lift the X-Wing out of the Swamp, is constantly plagued by doubt, is seduced by the Darkside (the Cave), and Yoda basically calls him a screw-up. As for the fight with Vader, well, Vader wasn't trying to actually fight him. If you watch the fight, you'll observe that Vader only uses one hand, even though his fighting style is two-handed.
The second Luke gets an honest hit on Vader, Vader loses his temper, starts to fight properly, and proceeds to chop Luke's hand off. Speaking of which. What was his reason for going to Bespin? Oh right, to save Han, Leia, and Chewie. What does he not do? Save Han, Chewie, and Leia - actually they have to save him! Even in the RotJ, Jabba laughs at Luke and doesn't take him seriously.
This is why Luke is beloved. He developed, he grew, and we got to watch it. He is an actual character. Rey, is just a Mary Sue. Handed everything, earned nothing.
Anakina literally blows up a whole space station as a child in episode 1 bro 😂
But he does this accidentally, and it's R2D2 who mostly drives the ship.
Plus let's remind you what he has become, what choices he has made, and what traits of character he had.
Anakin is DEFINITELY NOT a Mary Sue.
The fact that you too the time to write this very long and good comment which doesn't have a single flaw shows you know what you are talking about. I definitely agree with you.
9 years later, and you muster a tepid 7-minute video... I don't even think you actually believe in any of this shit lol
I thought this video was a joke based on the title and thumbnail, but it turns out that the real joke is you. Actually shameful takes, blaming racism and sexism when the culprit is terrible writing. Are you literally working on a star wars show rn? Idk how anyone who isn't getting paid could say anything you're on about.
i think its just ragebait since this channel has so many videos with 0 traction
No one disliked The Acolyte because of sexism or racism.
They disliked it because it was a terrible show about space witches, a trope fans have disliked since the regrettable “Courtship of Princess Leia” that Disney keeps returning to.
@@davidanderson4748 I'm not familiar with this. What do you mean?
@ The Courtship of Princess Leia was a novel that introduced the witches of Dathomir, and the idiotic concept of force witches was started. It also feature Han Solo using what could be described as a date rape gun to kidnap Leia against her will. It was pretty awful.
It is not racism or sexism that is clouding judgement. It is, in fact, a critical understanding of The Hero's Journey and what makes epic, compelling narratives and characters.
Anakin wasn't a "Mary Sue" archetype for destroying the bulk of the droid army or his participation in the battle over Nabu because it was already established that Anakin was an adept pilot and had been using his force sensitivity in pod racing for years. As stated, Anakin acknowledged he was the only human on Tatooine who could do it. So anakin being able to pilot a fighter was not as steep a learning curve as you think it is for him to just suddenly be good at it with no reason.
Rey on the other hand seemed to have all this battle experience and force knowledge implanted in her mind by virtue of being related to Palpatine.
Lastly the nature of risk and loss. Anakin was warned about his emotions, then still succumbed to the temptation of the Dark Side after his mother died, then failed in his duel with Dooku, losing a hand and nearly losing his best friend and mentor. Later Anakin would prove how far he had progressed in becoming one of the best Lightsaber duelists. Luke would later follow a similar path, being warned that leaving his training early would lead to loss. In his duel against Vader, Luke would likewise lose a hand and also his best friend and comrade, Han. Only to return triumphant after finishing his training and rescuing his friends.
Rey never risked much, she never lost anything of value or worth that would push or galvanize her into a hero. This is a classic example of when a story moves the characters, as opposed to the story being moved BY the characters.
The number of smart people in the comments of this video is very fortunate.
She is.
A 0:01 analysis video would suffice for that point.
We don’t accept that she’s palpatine’s granddaughter with no questions. There were lots of questions
"allow things like racism or sexism to cloud their judgment" Here is a crazy idea, maybe people just don't like shitty writing? There are so many movies with white male protagonists that get bashed cause they suck and are boring, Morbius and the recent Jurassic World movies are just some examples. Yet this is what people like you do. Jump to the conclusion that people don't like it cause of race or gender. If that's the truth, what about other female Star Wars characters that people like? Padme? Ahsoka? Leia? Hera? Ahsoka in particular is one of the most well written characters in the franchise throughout the Clone Wars. Some of the most popular movies of all time have prominent female roles such as Terminator 2 and Aliens. And even though it's animated, the original Mulan is a great movie and Mulan is a very likeable and believable protagonist. Why? Because she has to struggle and learn throughout a stressful process of war and isn't perfect right off the bat. A lot of the issues people have with Mulan in the remake are the same they have with Rey. Boring ass character that has no flaws. Character growth is one of the most important things in a movie, and Rey is significantly lacking. Your argument has no legs to stand on.
Nah, Star Wars fans just hate women - like Leia, Mara Jade, Ahsoka, Winter, Jania Solo, Mon Mothma, Admiral Daala, Oola, Darth Talon, Cara Dune, Jan Ors, Aayla Secura - I mean, the Star Wars fans just hate these women so much....
@@Thefufflylord got me at first 🤣
@@Thefufflylord Not True!
@zshah3107 ?
Is this a joke?
I hope so😂
No u are❤
Wow you are toxic @@calebwilliamsmusician
@@calebwilliamsmusician okay?
@@calebwilliamsmusiciangood one Einstein
sue is a mary skywalker
Listen. I was a huge Rey defender through episode VII. I agree they did their best to explain her feats in that one. The Jedi Mind trick one was pretty shaky still though, but I could forgive one instance. They also set up some flaws for her like her being reckless (when she released the Rathtars by pulling random fuses, or when she just ripped the compressor out) but I could forgive that those ended up being consequence free because they were going for a light tone in episode VII. She should not have stayed consequence free in episode VIII and IX though. Firstly her feats are less justifiable in this one. She ends up beating Luke, still with no training. While we don't really ever get a sense of the power level of the royal guards the fact that they lightsaber like weapons would indicate they are supposed to fight Jedi, and she beats them again with no training. She lifts up a massive amount of rocks again with no training (this is the most direct example of her just power creeping Luke who heavily struggled to lift the X-Wing and ultimately failed after a lot of training.) She finally gets some training in Episode 9, and apparently this is enough for her to channel "all of the Jedi" and overpower a juiced up Palpatine. Meanwhile her recklessness proves to be a fake flaw that is never punished the entire series. In Episode VIII, she goes straight to the dark side when she is observing the island with the force. This is simply not followed up on. She never shows any temptation for evil or adverse effects from this, despite Luke's worry. She leaves the island without ever getting any real training paralleling when Luke left Dagobah with his training incomplete. However, she saves her friends and is not punished for her recklessness, unlike Luke who loses an arm and fails to save Han. Her rampant use of force powers she doesn't understand looks like it is going to be punished when she kills Chewbacca, only to have it be revealed that that was a different ship and thus, still no consequence for any of her flaws.
Luke has far more failures by comparison. Both Luke and Anakin's failures do not have notable consequences in the first one, but they certainly do as the trilogies go on. Luke's feats are more understandable as well. He had spent time bull-eyeing womp rats which were of a similar size to the death star weak point. Anakin's feats are probably more on par with Rey's but he has much more flaws in the way of character. And he also loses a lot, both to Count Dooku in episode 2 and Obi-Wan in episode 3. It's not a sexism thing to think Rey is a Mary Sue and the other 2 weren't. I was not rooting for the sequels to fail either. I wanted them to be better. I walked out of the theater at episode 8 confused because I hadn't enjoyed it, but the idea of me not liking a Star Wars movie was so foreign to me that I just assumed it would grow on me. I'll even say at the end of the day I actually like Rey still. I think that is mostly due to how charming Daisy Ridley's portrayal is. But a Mary Sue is an criticism of the story not properly challenging a character.
Stop it already. Nobody wants to read that many words on youtube. Ever. And guaranteed everyone, like me, stopped reading after "I was a huge Rey defender" 😅 just ew
@@Marmalade_SallyI read the whole thing. Speak for yourself and only yourself.
Someone sold out. But hey. You enjoy your sinking ship
Wow, it only took bro 9 years to write this.
And he still did not cook at all. 😂
You're probably the greatest troll of all time.
wow... this is bullshit, and are you going to tell me that she has to rob every trait of every character to not being a Mary sue? She is good in everything and didn't sacrifice anything to get to that. Rey
Aw, cute, the little basement contrarian wanted to rage bait some ppl
You have my sympathies, here's a like and the attention you were so desperate for
This is not a video essay. If you want to prove she isn’t a Mary sue define what a Mary sue is, give your reasoning for why she isn’t one, and give examples of moments that align with your reasoning. Using the minority of fans that are sexist to paint all criticism of Rey as sexist a is a massive logical fallacy. This is basic debate taught to literal middle schoolers and shows you lack fundamental concepts of methodus.
That is so true. Great statement!
I’m not sure if this satirical or serious but this video really didn’t meaningfully address anything significant as to why people refer to her as a Mary sue. Frankly a lot of Star Wars has poor writing and Disney wasn’t the first to write poorly in the Star Wars universe but with how poorly and surface level Rey is as a character, it’s hard to not view Ray as a Mary sue, or at least as terribly written.
I’ll add to that by saying that although she may not be a mary sue in the traditional sense, but they’re still a poorly written character, primarily in that they’re barely fleshed out, if even at all (even in spite of whatever potential they had w/ setting her up as being the granddaughter of Palpatine)
You can cry she isnt a mary sue all you want but the facts don't change. There is nothing cultural about this slate. Just another activist who starts off with an attempt at character assassination of greater minds. She's a fanfic character who is great at everything, has no real character development, no from zero to hero path, etc. Basically the LA mulan, unlike the original disney mulan who actually is a character.
Grow a pair and stop this pandering, please.
Very true
Rey can fly, fight, Jedi, and fix anything. She is perfect in everything she tries and captures the roles of the 4 main characters of the OT. She never fails at anything she tries and has no arc. Luke and anakin both lose at least once in their story. Rey beats the emo boy in 7, kills the puppet in 8 and saved the not-rebels, and in 9 she saves someone who Luke freaking Skywalker gave up on. Then to top it off she comes back to life and takes on the skywalker name after being a direct cause for all of their deaths
YES!!! 100% Yes!
Here's the answer to Anakin and Luke having such a strong connection to the Force. Anakin is the "Chosen One" and Luke is his son and redeemer, that's how destiny works. Qui-Gon explained how Anakin was stronger in the Force than Yoda and every other Jedi in Episode One, or did you forget to watch that movie. Don't get me started on how Rey knows more about the Millenium Falcon than Han Solo in Episode 7, can lift a mountain worth of rocks in Episode 8, and somehow know how to sail a boat thing in Episode 9, even though she grew up on a desert planet. You mentioned the novelization so lets refer to books for the originals, Luke knew how to fly the X-Wing because it's design is similar to the T-16 Skyhopper he flew back on Tatooine and it's also the training vehicle used by the Rebels. He explained to Wedge that he could bullseye Wamp rats since they are only 2 meters wide, Obi-Wan encouraged Luke to use the Force when firing the torpedo's and it worked. How much were you paid to make this video...
LMAO, Rey is a textbook Mary Sue, she has never flown a ship before, I guess she can not only fly but also engineer the ship better than Han who owned it for decades. Never been in a sword fight guess she will outduel everyone. Never been trained in the force, here are more abilities used stronger than experienced and powerful dark and light side force users. Such a shitty vid of just pure cope
Also always amusing that these people cannot possibly fathom that someone just...doesn't like them. They have to concoct these reasons, usually baseless or flat-out irrational, in order to come to the conclusion that they like a movie most people don't. It's like they can't cope... over a movie. A movie! It's just a movie, so what if people hated it?! Impossible expectations, grifting hate for splash headlines, or the age-old broken record of "bigotry," note how he never once mentions Occam's razor-maybe most people just thought they sincerely sucked. Oh no, they couldn't possibly just be poorly written. No. Must be that Nazi cult that infiltrated SW fandom with their media pull on RUclips, eh? ...irrational, ridiculous nonsense from an irrational, ridiculous man who merely THINKS he's spouted something "profound" but just regurgitated and xerox-copied that same broken record of all Disney shills. The second you start labeling things sexist when they're not...you lose your audience. This tactic doesn't work anymore. It's beating a dead horse that people see through now. Mary Sue is not nor has ever been a sexist term. You merely want it to be to validate YOUR argument...which has no solid basis in much of anything. It's mostly nothing but nonsensical wailing insults toward a crowd of people that simply just disagree with you on a film...and the tactic of the intellectually vapid is to toss around insults over substance. And that's all you've ultimately done. If you know what's good for you, hang this RUclips thing up now; it doesn't suit you.
Terrible take. How did Anakin fly a ship Guess what he’s the Chosen one he has a literal explanation to why he does what he does with the force! What does Rey have? Oh right she’s a Girlboss. The story ended with anakin bringing balance to the force, but here comes the writers changing the original ending to fit Rey in it, changing Luke’s entire personality to make her the Hero. Her grandfather was a clone a non force sensitive clone, (watch the bad batch) she didn’t inherit anything from him. If you knew anything of what you’re talking about you would know that the writers are the problem, and how they write the characters. Maybe you shouldn’t spit on the face of the characters that came before to fit this new trash
Exactly. "mary sue" does not ONLY mean they're naturally good at everything, it also means they are loved by everyone simply for existing. Anakin may have been overpowered from a young age... but he still lost his temper often, failed a bunch, and was not liked by many. Mf straight up became space hitler lmao
Completely true.
Looks like we have another wanton Disney shill over here. Rey Palpatine is the worst, BEST and the most textbook definition of a Mary sue in cinema history from the moment she first touched a lightsaber and became this expert duelist from out of absolutely nowhere.
I wanted to like Rey. From the trailer and even the 1st sequel movie's intro I really liked that she seemed interesting and hopeful. It all quickly came crashing down through the rest of the movie, and the 2 thereafter. Rey is literally one of the characters I dislike the most in all of fiction. She is a noisy, stupidly broken, unlikable, can-do-no-wrong who always gets rewarded by the plot or story for doing stupid things. That is, by the very definition, a Mary Sue.
mary sue doesn't deserve any respect trash fans 🤡
mary sue doesn't deserve any respect
All they needed to do was copy and paste the Force Unleashed games onto Rey, but told in reverse. In the games you play a son of a Jedi who was taken in and trained by Darth Vader himself. In the sequel, you play as his clone who operated on Force enhanced muscle memory. Galen Merrick was closed on Kamino by Vader.
Rey could have been this. Rey could have been the clone and from Rise of Skywalker have Darth Rey be the real Rey. All problems would have been solved by doing this. Also Jakku could have housed and underground cloning facility, explaining why Rey wanted to return to Jakku all the time. Her programming told her to do so.
Her interactions with Kylo Ren would have triggered her Force connection that was from the template of Darth Rey. Darth Rey could have been found and trained by Snoke before he met Ben Solo.
There, problem solved
Explaining her power isn't the real problem to be honest. A Mary Sue is the less of a criticism of a character, and more of a story that refuses to challenge a character properly. We honestly do see some flaws with Rey. She is reckless, and she is desperate to find her place in the world. Both of these can amount of big failures or flaws, but the story never really punished her. When she leaves her "training" early to save her friends, she just does with no consequence. When she pulls random switches on the Falcon and unleashes the Rathtars, they end up helping more than they hurt. When she uses random force powers that she doesn't understand, Chewbacca wasn't on the ship she destroys. Couple that with her never even entertaining the idea of finding her place with the first order/Dark Side, and we see how her flaws are not really flaws in the context of the story. You could easily write a story that does not change Rey's backstory or skillset at all, and she would not be a Mary Sue. You just have to actually engage with her flaws.
@@jaketerpening3284 While I disagree with most of what you said, I'll respect the fact you've tried to actually engage and present an actually thought-out response. Again, I disagree, but I can say that you at least understand the fundamental issues here and that they go beyond the shallow criticism of the usual apologists. Your comments have been a good read and worthy of consideration. Sort of reminds me of the old Fourms days...
Luke didn’t even swing a saber till the end of empire and that was after training with grandmaster Jedi Yoda for a third of the movie and he lost a hand while losing the fight. Rey, was mindtricking not even halfway into the first movie while girlbossing/mary sue’ing her way through a lightsaber duel with against someone trained by Luke Skywalker for years and it ends in a draw? No, she’s a Mary sue and your channel is now blocked.
Let's be real, it wasn't a draw. she clearly won. Just because the battlefield shifted and stopped her from dealing the ending blow doesn't mean that Kylo wasn't beaten. He had a slash on his face and was down. If the earth hadn't shifted around right then and there, she would have killed him. She won on all accounts. She beat him with practically no effort
She’s not a Mary sue
@@songoku7530 Brilliant counter argument. I'll have to remember "nu uh" next time
@@songoku7530 agreed
@@songoku7530 no kid 🤡 she is
this is what paid shills are, frens. Point and laugh, point and laugh
Yes, she is. Textbook, even.
classic raigebait video, after wasting my time watching the full video you didnt even manage to let me think yeah he has some good points...
wow racism/sexism card busted at 40 seconds, gotta be a world record
WRONG
Cope
I hate this comment section
Turn the music louder I almost heard you
Rey = Not a Mary Sue 🤢 🤮!
she is not a marry sue. why? because shes a bad character.
This video has 24 likes and the top comment has 60😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 the majority have spoken
Lol nice try breadboi.
Almost 2025 and still doing Rey Mary Sue videos. Have some shame, shill
Lol. Man you and I saw radically different movies, but I am glad you liked them.
There's so much to dislike about everything coming out of Disney Star Wars. It's amusing to see you, trying to pump up subs with this clickbait. I clicked. Your bait worked. Your content is pathetic. Your channel should fail before the new year. Cheers.
Because the premise of this video was such a hot take, with no cogent argument to back it up, I'm pretty sure this was clickbait to get views for this channel. It worked for this posting but it will be ignored from this point on.
Somebody’s triggered 😂
I know right? I actually thought he'd give a somewhat reasonable argument. He didn't
lol I suggest you don't leave the link to Ian Bowling's article in the description, it's just making you look even more like an edgelord
Rey is 100 percent a Mary Sue. There is even a video where a guy breaks it down for 20 minutes straight and he is completely correct. I couldn't even find one person who agrees with this Karen narrating this video
That's right! Good analysis, but tone it down a bit.
🤢🤮
You’re right, 100% correct. Rey is not a Mary Sue, objectively not one in fact. Ignore the low IQ comments.
fool
It is good to see this coming to light. When writing a script for a video I went back and watched some of her scenes in the Last Jedi and she really is flawed. Her character arc revolves around finding out her place in the galaxy, she feels alone and Kylo even says she is looking for family wherever she goes. Her flaw in this arc is how vunerable she is to being open to others. She seeks family in Han, she seeks family in Kylo, she seeks family in Luke, she seeks family in Leia. And each and everytime they either fall flat or don't last long. And when she finally finds out her family, it is not the family she wants. She eventually finds family in the Jedi Order, and the very end of Rise of Skywalker brings that arc of her character to a close. It is a little cheesey I'll admit, but with her taking up the Skywalker name, it is her sense of belonging.
In The Force Awakens she is just wants her family to come back, and she denies the truth favouring her fantasy. She is arguably dislikeable in some aspects of her personality, she doesn't like being told what is against her beliefs, even if they are true. But her heart is in the right place, she wants to help and means well. And I'll never understand the argument of "her not having any combat training" when not only is she shown wielding a staff in the first movie, but her first meeting with Finn is tripping him and putting him at what would be death point if she had a much more lethal weapon. She is also quite a fan girl, and just wants to be normal. She is fine doing her scavenger work, it may not be what she is happiest doing, but she is accepting of it, and when she is told by Maz that she is special and the Skywalker lightsaber calls to her she denies that.
In The Last Jedi she is now seeking guidance from Luke. However she keeps having these interactions with Kylo. Kylo is pulling her one way while Luke pulls her the other. Kylo is trying to manipulate her with the truth, while Luke is 'trying' to train her while telling her it is time for the Jedi to die. So it is no wonder she opens up to Kylo. It eventually gets to the point where if Luke wouldn't return, Rey would try to do what he did all those years ago and redeem and Kylo, just like how Luke redeemed Anakin. And she even thinks she succeeds. Until she realises she hasn't, and is heart broken in the moment from the revelation that her family were no one.
In The Rise Of Skywalker she is often shown giving into her emotions and not always thinking straight. She eventually becomes so broken she decides that Luke was right. It is only after Luke's guidance she can return and find her place in the galaxy.
And yes, she is a Palpatine. A descendant of a Palpatine Strandcast Clone, but still a descendant nonetheless. Palpatine is confirmed by George Lucas to be the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist. Not to mention the mention of Darth Plagueis cheating death was apparently a pointer that Abrams used, using as it as a "set up" for Palpatine's return in ROS, and with that logic, what is to say Palpatine didn't also crack Midichlorian Manipulation, or at least some form of it. We know he wanted to host Rey. Perhaps he was interested in experimenting on her during her youth without her knowing, seeing if she can increase her Midichlorian Count so when he took over her, he could increase his own power. It would make sense.
I think people's perception of Rey is either clouded by their view of the rest of the movies (I am a Sequels enjoyer myself, but they aren't perfect movies in anyway. And there are things that flat out make no sense), or they just want something to hate for the sake of having something to hate, which is a shame. The Sequels aren't perfect, but they introduced good ideas that weren't executed the best. Rey has potential, and I think the upcoming Rey film can rectify those 'issues' people had with her. Daisy Ridley has said she wouldn't have returned if the script wasn't good, not to mention we have confirmation Disney is intending to start valuing quality over quantity and to do so they have to pull back on their releases. So it is looking good for the future. But I will say it is probably best to wait those ten years to see the true reception of the new Rey film and the Sequels. It is a running theme for Star Wars that nobody likes them to begin with, but over time they become loved. It happened with the Prequels, its happened to Rebels, its happened to many things.
That's a lot of wasted time for some mental gymnastics. She's a Mary sue
Look she shouldn't have been. And the first movie alone doesn't make her one.
It's the complete disregard for anything after that point that's the issue.
She dominated force tricks and beat Kylo Ren with no training in the first movie. She was already too far gone
😂😂😂😂😂
God, this was such a great, and refreshing video to see!
As a Rey fan, it's exhausting seeing the same tired, rage filled manchildren wine and complain about Rey!
I'd LOVE to see you guys dismantle the "Problems" people have with Reva next!
Her treatment from the Fandom is even MORE DISGUSTING than Rey's!
And as someone that hates rey (but loves og trilogy and prequels women so nope not sexist, Rey is a bad character), i love seeing this videos because listening to the mental gymnastics and pouting is entertaining. So please. Continue!
kid 🤡
@Seehwan-n5h I'm 26 ya Dorpus...
@Andrea_the_Collector925 your post reads like a pouty 14 year old. I too hope he tries to defend reva. It will be even funnier!
Thank GOD someone on the internet has some common sense 🙏
Where?
Yeah, and it's definitely not him.
kid
No she’s not Mary sue
No kid 🤡 she is with proof also weak
She isn't a Mary Sue, because the Fandom Menace Chuds can't be right.
goyslop take
We shouldn't except much for jewllywood/Disney fans
Cope