TF2 Step 1: Make a PvP shooter. Step 2: Have no real anti-cheat. Step 3: Get a rampant cheating problem. CS2 Step 1: Make a PvP shooter. Step 2: Have no real anti-cheat. Step 3: Get a rampant cheating problem. Deadlock Step 1: Make a PvP shooter. Step 2: Have no real anti-cheat. Step 3: ??? Why are they like this
TF2’s so old, it’s more like: Step 1: Make PvP shooter Step 2: it becomes one of the best multiplayer games of all time Step 3: after 10 years, let it rot Step 4: your anti-cheat gets outdated and game gets infected by cheaters Step 5: still take people’s money for new microtransactions Step 6: repeat steps 4 and 5 ad infinitum.
@@Brother_Piner step 5.5: add more microtransactions instead of events ro content ... step 7: community has enough, protests. step 8: "we are working on it!" step 9: update the anticheat. step 10: repeat steps 4 to 5. and if the #fixtf2 geos the way it is supposed to be going, then : step 11: community protest stops giving money. step 12: money lost. step 13: actually start doing something. that is of course if they just don't work around it, or ignore it.
Do you prefer kernel level anti-cheat? Because that's the next step they have to go to just to try to get cheaters caught. Kernel level anti-cheat is more intrusive then vac anti-cheat.
@@MrDanielcool13 it might have a higher player count now, but it sure as hell won't replace it. The only way it could is if valve shuts down tf2, which is probably why you want that. Enjoy your esports bullshit, you corporate shill.
This guys a certified moron. This game will absolutely take over. Early access and its the most hyped game currently. Completely unfinished sure, it literally tells you that. Going to be deciding whether to play this or GTA 6 next year because theres no other competitor. What a horrible stupid take. Guy needs to stick to playing stardew valley and mario and review those and keep his opinions off real games.
@@pyerack yeah, even cosmetic only nobody should be forced to gamble to get the hat they want. I bought all my hats from the marketplace but them being there means someone bought a lootbox key to get it.
its insane to think that valve is making ANOTHER multiplayer pvp game when their 2 biggest, TF2 and CS2 are BOTH being destroyed by hackers and cheaters and neglect because valve considers anti-cheat to be "treadmill work" that isn't worth doing. How the hell can they expect people to dedicate time and energy to a new multiplayer game when they've shown us that they don't care to actually take care of their multiplayer games on even the most basic level.
it aint even treadmill work lol, community servers with their SMAC and STAC are hard cock-blocking tf2 cheating, restricting even the best cheats to low fov aimbot (barely useful lol), clientside visuals and ESP. can bots really work on those AC? No. Can you code a cheat that lets you use every current feature without getting banned on STAC? No. It's not treadmill work, you dont need to make an anticheat that bans every cheat and every cheater. you need something like STAC that doesnt let you shoot 270 degrees away from your camera, like bots do, doesnt let you fake player angles (anti-aim), like bots do, doesnt let you perform pixel-frame perfect movement, like bots do. let cheaters play the game, they're really not that good and they never were a problem in a game that isnt even about shooting all that much, its move about movement and teamwork than anything
calling icefrog and his team are bunch of 4 years old is crazy... dude architects dota 2 for 14 years and maintaining 500k plus daily active players in those years, biggest esports and prize pool...its disrespectful cuh 😂
Not only that but Icefrog is actually the progenitor of MOBAs, without him we probably wouldn't have the MOBA genre as it is right now. The guy is an innovator and an inventor. But to diss him like this and put this game beside Blizzard slop? Absolute uninformed trash take. The game keeps booming, might as well delete this video.
@@LedzQQ As much as I like IceFrog, he didn't create Dota, he didn't create Aeon of Strife (the SC map that inspired the Dota mod), the only thing he did is pick up the Dota mod after a bunch of other devs abandoned it and turn it into a franchise with a huge esports scene. He's a genius game designer but don't give him too much credit.
It's baffling to me that Valve can't figure out how to make anti-cheat to save their lives, yet are making another multiplayer online shooter that is supposed to be played in esports. CSGO and TF2 are pretty much unplayable in pubs due to cheaters. Can't wait to see the bot swarms that will infect Deadlock lol
The main reason Valve games have become notorious for cheating is because Valve is trying to be non-invasive with their products. Steam does not force a strong DRM on you (except when publishers do), and similarly CS and TF2 don't come with invasive anti-cheat, and most of their games are on Linux etc. The only deterrent to cheating problem IMHO is slapping a 70$ price tag on multiplayer games with perma-ban and active moderation going on ban sprees. It might sound like I'm defending Valve here, but this is entirely a problem they cooked for themselves by inventing the F2P model. TLDR online gaming is fucked
@@r.g.thesecond Another thing is, cheating is getting more advanced as time goes Back then, it's just a simple cheat engine script Fast forward now, cheats now runs at kernel level, and gaming companies retaliate by making kernel level AC In the future? Hardware based cheat I bet, and how are they gaming companies gonna counter that?
The bot count on TF2 is disturbing. The constant DDoS attacks L4D2 faces is frustrating. The hacking in CS2 is downright unacceptable. Valve's been complacent for too long, and needs to be called out.
@BeerCanBennytheIV I never thought someone could describe L4D2 versus so accurately, its always been like this, unless you got friends to play with (pain in the ass to find 8 willing individuals that arent dickheads for a full lobby) its always gonna feel like everyone on that lobby is on edge. The FixTF2 thing i see is like a last ditch effort to try to convinve Valve to maintain their servers, but there is a huge percent of the playerbase who only play Official servers and never bother with communiry servers even though they're ultimatemy gonna be the thing that will keep TF2 running in the long run, they treat TF2 like its a modern day game and forget that its an old source engine multiplayer game and its a miracle Valve is even bothering with official servers.
@@Source121 Overblown my ass, anything above top 5% percentile is infested with cheaters You're probably the gold nova projecting, I was global and I have been around 18k in cs2 playing with friends and it is absolutely fucking infested with cheaters, while faceit and similar third party services only have the occasional cheater (and they usually get banned, while by VAC they don't) And if 18k is infested I cannot imagine how 20k+ is, probably a cheater in nearly every match, it's probably rarer to get a cheat free match than a match with a cheater, they have verifiably absurd inhuman leetify stats very often and they go unbanned for months, if not years.
@@youbaouahdi4358 People always conveniently forget that TF2 is still being actively monetized by VALVe, till this day, you can expect cosmetics being dropped on the game 3 TIMES A YEAR complete with cases, new unusual effects and taunts so you can gamble away all your payday, all of it community made slop that's either not in touch with the games artstyle or down right not working, while at the same time ignoring one of the most blatant hackers we've ever seen in VG history only because they are too lazy to do something that will actually work, any other company would've been burned at the stake for this, but VALVe made Half-Life 25 years ago so they can't do no wrong. Community servers are going to be the future eventually, but until then VALVe in no point or opportunity has confirmed that they ceased development of TF2, until then we can expect them to at least fix the blatant and most playerbase damaging issues that pop up here and there, no one behind #SAVETF2 is expecting for VALVe to also do the teased Heavy update or rebalance certain weapons to be more useful or fun, we just want for the vanilla game to be playable for many reasons, community servers aren't perfect either and you can't expect every single type of player to just go over to community servers when the browser sucks and looks super ugly, the servers could have changed any number of gameplay values, they could reserved spaces that either won't let you ocupy while joining or you get kicked because someone that donated money to the server patreon wants to join, and the servers withouth this problem tend to attract the kidn of people that have 10K+ hours put into the game that wil stomp you and make your stay on said server miserable, it just makes more sense to fix the official public servers since, again, the issue is so blatant it stoped being funny years ago.
@@Source121 Yeah, that's why CS2 RUclipsrs like WarOwl have publicly denounced the cheating problem, right? He must be some GN2 scrub that can't hit the broad side of a barnyard to save his mother's life. Dude, take it from a TF2 fan, we as a community stopped caring early on, thinking VALVe would be doing something against the bot problem, its been 5 years, the bot hosters no ontl hold the game hostage, they have harassed, extorted, DDOS'd, doxxed and even swated people speaking against the bot problem, don't be like us, demand an actual solution to the hacking problem from VALVe, VAC-ban waves are not reliable long term specially when the game the people are getting banned from is F2P, remind VALVe that they released a sequel to a succesful game with less gameplay features and fixing almost none of the problems people had with the prequel, mainly hitreg and anticheat, but the cases came before any map update and will continue coming on schedule because VALVe only cares about money anymore, any other company who acted like this would be destroyed by the public opinion, yet VALVe, as always, gets a free pass.
>makes video (have games been on a downward spiral?) about people judging and hating video games before even playing them or coming out >proceeds to do the same thing I guess he's hating... because he's passionate i guess?
As someone who's played in the closed beta for this game, Tyler's comment about it being like basically every other Valve game combined is grossly incorrect. The game that Deadlock is closest to being is like Smite from Hi-rez but you have freedom to aim in all directions. Deadlock has no elements from TF2 or CS. It's just a 3rd person over the shoulder MOBA.
Tyler is a bad source honestly. He made a bunch of fuss and clickbait saying "VALVE IS SUING FANS!!!" when in reality it was people straight stealing tf2 source code and another group getting told by valve to not piss off Nintendo. Then refused to edit the video,
Steam rusted the valve. This game is not the oil we need. ALRIGHT ALRIGHT I GET IT I WAS WRONG THE GAMES FINE SHUT UP NOW AND ITS ACTUALLY THE OIL WE NEEDED.
@@tehjamerz I KNOW, some of the employees at Valve tried to force the old heads to make a PR response during the Black Lives Matter movement. WHY?! VALVE IS A VIDEO GAME COMPANY, WHO CARES WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY! Gabe understands this and so he gave his employees $100k each to donate to whatever charity they wanted. He had to give them hush money, this company is fucked!
@@RambunctiousRaccon I never got the idea of big companies trying to make a statement about any political affairs. Most of the time it's so horribly executed and makes them look out of touch. I thought Valve was better than this, but you could say that for anything they've done for the past few years.
@@tehjamerz I've heard that Valve employees are jealous that the TF2/CS2 community does a better job at creating and maintaining Valve's games than Valve. I'm starting to think that's true because there's no excuse for these issues to remind for so long. Unless modern Valve wants to do away with the other games and replace it with this Dota Dota Overwatch slop no one enjoys.
@@RambunctiousRaccon How many of the devs that made TF2 will work at valve? If it is close to none then i can see why valve does not want to work on it.
I played 4 hours of this game. And will not return. Its mechanically not good. Nothing meshes well. And the game doesnt know what it wants to be. Imo this game is just not good.
The most baffling thing is, Valve is a private company who runs the largest games platform on PC with a massive revenue stream. They don't HAVE to do this, they don't HAVE to pump out cash grab trend following games, they have an effective blank check to make literally whatever they want and not even care about the sunk cost. They can literally make anything but they've become stale and creatively bankrupt
The inverse truth of it is that they don't HAVE to make games period, so of course a company that has effectively abandoned game making as their primary output is going to lose the talented people that actually want to make video games, the talent that made the Valve name what it is today.
Thats why I dont think this game will see the light of day. Beta testing the hell of the game is pretty normal practicd at valve. That doesnt mean that this wont be scrapped.
yeah! unlike a publicly traded company that has to maximise shareholder profit, Valve is allowed to do literally anything they want to do as long as they don't go bankrupt, which is guaranteed to basically never happen given the amount of money they make from Steam. furthermore, a controlling share of the company is owned by Gabe Newell - ie. the man who was in charge of the company when it was a small studio making the original Half Life. I don't understand why an artist, who has uncontested control of a private company, which already has a massive and stable stream of revenue, wouldn't be more interested in using those resources to create things people enjoy
I wouldn't put Valve and Bungie into the same category lmao. Valve is doing fine for themselves, even if they make games that you might not enjoy. Bungie, on the other hand...
no, he was right, its an atrocious amalgamation of esport titles and its vile. The fact you guys accept this is 100x more of an indictment of YOU than it is him.
@personman5156 There is no real critique here, just a bunch of subjective buzzwords. Before you start telling other people what to like and not like, try putting real thought into your takes.
The thing about Valve was that they released a game only when they had a technological break through as a foundational reason to. Half Life 1 was about the transition to fully 3D environments, Half Life 2 was about the debut of in-game physics simulations, Half Lify Alyx was an attempt to explore VR gaming. The problem is that they became so profitable as a games distributor that I think it took focus away from pushing technological game advancements and then because of the massive release cycle, people quit or retired and eventually all those people deeply passionate about games got cycled out for people who were more geared towards game distribution and with that Value lost the ability to make the iconic games they used too.
thats why that part of technological breakthough are now geared towards their hardware division. their lack of hierarchy except for gabens final word and its hands-free approach to development where one dev could spend its time at Valve only working on prototypes that will never be released its also a problem that doomed released games unless two or more devs are interested on maintaing or fixing a game (like it happened with HL1 25th anniversary update).
Not exactly. Like, you're correct with those specific examples, but sometimes it was more about a good game design concept as much as it was about tech. Like, Left 4 Dead WAS about the "Director AI" or whatever, automatically tuning and subtlely altering a map's enemy and item distribution to better tune the experience, but it was ALSO just about creating an interesting game design dynamic of a cooperative episodic *narratively focused* online shooter, which hadn't really been done before. Portal was about the portal tech, which had been done before, but not so flexibly (in Prey specifically), but it was ALSO about telling a funny story and trying to make an FPS without it being about the "S" so much, since you weren't shooting all your problems away (or at least not directly). These were games where the tech shift was minor, but the game design shift was actually much more novel and interesting. So Valve needed to have at least SOME kind of "big new idea" at the core of the game for them to find it interesting enough to make, but it wasn't *necessarily* just a tech based idea.
@@fantastikboom1094 Half lifes break through was in the innovative approach to story telling, where most other games where just gimmicky arena shooters with barely any story.
Calling the one studio who is able to actually effectively balance competitive games for 20+ years a bunch of 4 year olds for fusing different competitive games together is true insanity. If youre a big valve fan you should consider playing their other multiplayer games even if its just to get a subjective understanding of how good valve are at game design and balance.
3 months later. Deadlock already has twice TF2's active players, despite it being limited access with zero advertising AND only letting regions play in specific time frames. This aged like milk.
tbh the early leaked footage looked quite bad, but Valve did actually cook with Deadlock. It has amazing mechanics and the gameplay is well thought out
To be very clear, this game is dota 2 but with fully realized shooting and action mechanics. Imagine what dota 2 looks like from your characters perspective, minus fog of war. It handles the issue of “auto attack range” as weapon falloff and combines the currency and exp mechanics into one. You leverage your knowledge and fps mechanics in the early game to out lane your opponent and build an advantage. In the late game you participate in chaotic team fights and fast map traversal to secure objectives as a team. Also the item system is open ended, you’re not buying stat sticks most of the time. It can be fun, but runs into similar issues as dota 2, not new player friendly and can have long game times.
Dota always had strategic layer from warcraft 3 roots but would it be fun in fp shooter? Main OW problem was forced meta that made it impossible to play solo like in tf2. Casual low to mid Dota is fine but at high level everyone plays busted heroes of the patch and it always recommended to play at least with one friend, solo Dota sucks ass
i disagree, id say deadlock is SUPER new player friendly, especially if they have mild familiarity with mobas. the entry barrier is low but the skill ceiling is high.
No way, an actually well articulated comment that accounts for both the pros and cons of the game from someone that actually played it?? This comment is in very stark contrast to the rest of this noise.
no lol of course he hasn't, this video just amounts to "I get bad vibes from this idea so therefore it's bad and terrible and actually the worst thing ever made"
Valve had rivalry with Blizzard and Epic Games on multiple layers. Dota 2 vs DotA/HotS TF2 vs Overwatch Half Life vs Unreal Steam vs Epic Games Store Each of the three influenced eachother greatly. There's also id's influence because Gabe worked on porting Doom to Windows. Later Half Life also fought with Quake 2/3. Also what's important is an idea of "Ship of Theseus". These companies are no longer what they used to be despite calling themselves the same name.
Well that's kinda what happens when you deicide to appeal to doomers and Emp is guilty of this in alot of his videos. Everything has to be the worst thing ever no matter what
@@speemus6223 Does it really or are you just following the bandwagon of shitting on Overwatch over-zealously. I dont even like Overwatch i dont play it and dont like it but i dont see how people are saying this game looks better
I was feeling down, and then I saw a new downward diary was posted and the downward spiral sucked me in. Now I'm still heading downwards, but I'm upside down now.
@@minestar2247 That's the point. I'm being sarcastic. Some of the best games out there are combinations of genres but this video acts like that indicates no real vision.
Market oversaturation and derivative content plays a large role in that. Well, also the fact that most of these games are merely vessels for microtransaction/lootbox/virtual economies. They have it down to a science what kind of shit people are willing to put up with/the bare minimum they have to do to make money. Creativity isn't really the point of these.
Been an avid TF2 fan for the past 15 years but this is one of the reasons im usually embarrassed to admit im even part of the community sometimes. It's always been one sided rivalries with games that are completely different genres
The game is twice as old now as fucking StarCraft 1 was when tf2 released holy shit I cannot begin to imagine the walking olfactory warning coming off of fucking tf2 diehards that can’t move on
@@melonelon7590 Emp explained this in the video after this one, but it's because no other game plays quite like TF2 (partially thanks to the modern games as a service model) and also video games aren't supposed to become unplayable just because of age. Some people are just comfortable with one video game and that's perfectly fine.
pretty much yeah. All of the players forgot that its due to the valve structure that they have their old ass games in the first place. Its due to their nature of letting the employee work on whatever they want. You can get mad at them all you want, but valve will do whatever they want.
@@massburgers1337 This is what happens when your brain is full of buzzwords, no room for actual thought. If i throw a complete noob into tf2 and let them play soldier or heavy, they could probably get a couple kills. That's instant gratification. It's difficult to kill in Deadlock, you need patience and strategy, an understanding of the game systems, just to basic shit. Stop making arguments before you've even played or seen what the game is like. It's so far removed from overwatch that I know you're bullshitting.
lmao what does that even mean? Replacement in what way? They dont give a single crap about tf2 and after playing deadlock its very obvious that this game has absolutely nothing to do with it. Though tf2 is influential, insufferable tf2 fans overstate that and think that its on everyones minds 24/7, but its really not..
This game has very little to do with TF2... This comment is a circlejerk within a video that is a circlejerk ("I watched 1 video..."). Deadlock is a moba.
As someone said - Valve has corporate ADHD. They are unable to keep taking care of their games for the long run (like TF2). They constantly make projects that they won't finish (infamously: Episode 3) And obviously the one garbage project that requires the least attention from them - Deadlock, is the one they're focusing on.
@@me67galaxylife there have been like 30 attempts at making HL(E)3 The issue is, they have a work ethic that lets employees work on something else if they want to
@@minestar2247 It's why personally I think that deadlock at the very least has people who want to work on it there, and that at it's core it will probably be pretty good for what it is. Unfortunately, it's going to die because of a lack of support.
@@bow-89 No, the problem is that the "higher-ups" (veterans) don't want you to work on something that they're not interested in. As such, if you don't want your pay to get cut, or get fired altogether, towards the end of the year when it's time to get rated, everyone leaves "unimportant projects"
@@its_radit Just because he doesn't play a couple of their popular games doesn't mean he's a hater. I don't play CS or Dota either, but that's because they aren't games that appeal to me. I'm not a fan of tactical shooters, and, while I've not played one, I've never been a fan of the concept of MOBAs. I still love their other games though, and can appreciate what Valve has done to innovate in the industry.
The Top comments not only aged badly but are just plan false. I'll explain. (The Devs that made Valve classic games are gone) This is incorrect just by doing basic research and looking at the Half-Life Alyx credits. The Lead designers of Half-Life, TF2, Portal, and Dota 2 are still at Valve but most of them have gotten a senior role. - Robin Walker (Creator of TF2) - Project Lead HL:Alyx and the rumoued HL:X - Eric Smith (Writer of Portal & L4D2 & TF2 Comics) - Wrote for HL:Alyx and currently writing for Deadlock - Greg Coomer (Level Designer at every Half-Life game) - Still at Valve working. There is still so much more but I made my point. Valve is Valve and the Gaming sphere is the one that changed the most. (Valve is a Lazy) - Half-Life: Alyx: Immersive VR storytelling and innovative gameplay. - Counter-Strike 2: Major updates to the CS:GO . - Steam Deck: Powerful portable gaming console with a wide range of compatible games. - SteamVR: Immersive VR experiences for PC gamers. - Steam Labs: Experimental features and technologies for Steam. - Linux support: Expands gaming market and provides more choices for gamers. - Steam: Made Steam family and Steam Record. Just because Valve doesn't work on TF2 doesn't mean they're lazy, They just don't care about your game anymore. (Valve don't make games anymore) Valve still makes games but at a slower pace. This is simply because games take much longer when developing. - Starfield(6 years) - Baldurs Gate 3 (7 years) - Wukong (5-6 years) and many many more. Valve is still mostly the same especially compared to other fallen companies like Blizzard, Bungie. Please don't let the TF2 community gaslit you into thinking otherwise.
He is also straight up lying when he talks about writers : he says that Wolpaw has left Valve in 2017 BUT on the screenshot we can literally see "in January 2019 he returned"
its undeniable that valve makes games at a slower pace than most companies. a friend who works in the industry once told me that valve's building in washington "feels like a retirement home for developers". now, whatever you think about that, i feel like there should be some sort of balance between letting devs work at their own pace and having actual deadlines. on one hand devs shouldn't just do whatever they want until they lose interest, but on the other, a lot of companies today just crunch their staff and throw them out like trash, which isn't nearly as addressed as it should be.
This an actual point, thank you for your effort. For my own sceptism, Valve being lazy is in for a game they care to benefit from they should care about it, they Should've put in the effort to work on it and keep it managed, the Bot crisis shouldn't have lasted aslong as it did. Writers, from what I've personally learned from Runeterra in leauge of legends and ALOT of character design they vary on control, the amount the exevutives allow them to for profit and such. Though to be fair valve has the issue of letting the staff not complete the projects they were work because of the human will to want convience over dicipline, so this may be the few times it works in allowing the writer to write. Still though I'm somehat of an obsever and my points are mainly built on information understood, i'm more confident in the Lazy part because it doesn't matter how much theorical work you do somewhere else, for something you benefit highly from refusing to assit there is LAZY, you either Cut it off or Keep building it up, espically when it suriving for so long shows pointential that should be rewarded. The others not enough research. Wish Emplemon sees your comment it has actual weight and brings a counter argument to his, points I can't easily boggle down to ingorance or Emotional Defensiveness. He should pin it to be a Checklist to Challenge each piece to see something he may have missed or make his point stronger.
Like the comment, but I don't agree with the tf2 stuff. Yes, a vocal part of the community is coping, but the game still has a massive community and deserves some updates, even just to upgrade the cheat detection and nothing else. Also I've played deadlock and it's great.
@@dr.cheeze5382 Yeah, I got heated. This guy was trying to sabotage a game Valve has been working on for 6+ years with so much misinformation and lies.
What? Rockstar released arguably the largest game ever only a few years ago with Red Dead 2 and they currently have a full team working on what's looking to be most ambitious game ever with GTA 6. They're a studio that actually keep pushing the boundaries of what's possible in video games, something Valve hasn't attempted in years bar Alyx.
@@oldyearstillme Lmao, they abandoned Red Dead Online. The RDO community did the same exact thing as the TF2 community did and Rockstar still didn't care. TF2 is going down the same path.
Ehh Id rather it go to them than pretty much any of the other big gaming companies. While when it comes to making games valve has rly dropped off by letting their older titles pretty much rot. But on the other hand the people at valve working on steam deck and linux i think are doing outstanding work without them i wouldn’t be able to play like 90% of the gamess i play and allows me to pretty much ditch windows and not deal with all of Microsofts BS
I stopped buying games through steam years ago. you can 90% of the time get them cheaper elsewhere, and your money doesnt go to this rotting, dead company that doesnt care about you or the games they abandoned.
(Its actually more or less ready to be launched, but its being delayed for investor call purposes) Edit: Holy absolute fuck the Redditards are at my throat over this. I made a joke. Take the fart neutralizer out your ass and laugh for once, jeez. You guys are the reason why TF2 got abandoned.
The lanes of dota the toxic community of cs and dota the flashy over the top effects of overwatch and the bot problem of tf2 all mixed together in one game sounds like hell.
And then VALVe goes full Thanos and says: "finally, i have them all" If the rumors are true, then Deadlock seems like the Infinity Gauntlet of "Awful video game aspects"
@@davisdf3064 Lets think of it this way, they could have better maintened there ips or used a few moba style class roles in a otherwise tf2 esc game but instead they made this, Valve lost there way and this game is the final proof to remove all doubt.
@@minestar2247 A case study of how not to add moba inspired mechnics to shooter games, well there is right way to that grafting togather conflicting elements isn't it.
I'm in a fickle spot with Deadlock. On one hand, when Valve actually finishes a product, it is clearly something they are passionate about enough to cross the finish line. Due to their unconventional structure, they only give attention to something they are internally enjoying. So I'm happy to see anything they do, and what breakthroughs they felt they uncovered to warrant a release. Even if it isn't for me, I want to see the effort. On the other hand, the precedent they have set on their own games alone is horrific. As many have seen, Team Fortress 2 is absolutely suffering while still receiving community content and official server support. That should fall under false advertising in my opinion to willingly keep up a broken product with everyone making it public how broken it is. Counter-Strike 2 had its own well documented cheater wave which I think is being tackled, but I don't know everything. So it's clear the PvP market is suffering enough from cheaters alone, so that ends any hype I would have for Deadlock. And Valve makes it clear that they don't have any remorse for abandoning their games, let alone simply communicating that they want to abandon something. I'd feel so much closure if they just said they were done with TF2 and dropped it, instead of keeping it up to be exploited, but that's just me. As Emp discussed, I don't think I'm the target audience for whatever Deadlock is going for, it sounds alien to me. I am not sure who the target audience actually is. Though I am excited to see the reception, positive or negative, moreso than the actual game. I want to see how the room reads it, but I don't think I'll support it. I wish their priorities were elsewhere. I wish them the best, but I'll only tune in from afar.
"when Valve actually finishes a product" I'm gonna have to stop you right there. I'm Joking. But doesn't it seem like Valve fears closing out the stories they create?
I don't expect Deadlock to have a huge marketing campaign like Valve's major titles of the past. Valve making forgettable projects isn't really anything new. It all starts with Ricochet, then Day of Defeat, Alien Swarm (actually a banger, deserves a sequel), VR stuff, and of course Artifact. I'd even add Dota 2 despite it's popularity, since it's so far off from what they're known for. I see this more as Icefrog's game than Valve's, and I think they do too. So when they go about revealing and advertising this game, they should probably avoid trying to hype it up and release it low-key. Like Alien Swarm, it could basically say "we developed this game to test out our new hires capabilities" in the first line of the description.
Based off of the precedent Valve has set, TF2 will receive whatever CS2 receives after an extended period of time, as long as the playerbase exists. For example, V-Script and 64bit support was recently (in TF2 terms) added. Perhaps CS2's AI-powered anti cheat that they're working on will bleed into TF2, and that's why they haven't addressed it. But to let the game rot with zero word on the future of the game isn't right, even if the game WAS playable on official servers.
@@augustine6683 Well at least just Half-Life. It's dirty but it has an air of cartooniness to it. It tried to be as grounded and realistic as it could be on the tech available and that produced an ugly but extremely lovable and memorable style. It doesn't look like TLoU or CoD, it despite mainly aiming for realism is recognizable as Half-Life and not just Realistic. It's like Breaking Bad. Despite being grungy and realistic and shot in a very similar way to a lot of other gritty TV Drama's, not only does Breaking Bad have some admittedly goofy moments you don't immediately notice because of how well the story gets you engaged, but also iconic visual motifs like the New Mexico filter. Unrealistic isn't always stylish and realistic isn't always styleless. Half-Life's style isn't just "Realistic", it's Dirty and Grimy on each individual piece in a shot but clean and readable as a whole, grounding but engaging, like it's a movie and runs on movie logic as well as game logic. Counter-Strike shares ancestry with the Half-Life series and so a Half-Life dedicated PVP Game rather than just a Deathmatch mode would probably look similar but with Half-Life's unique stylings, mainly in the clothing, weapons, and the unique apocalyptic urban environments you could fight in, or the sprawling rural areas as shown in Half-Life 2: Episode 2. Not to mention the creature designs. It would've been nice to visit the Half-Life universe again and have a Half-Life experience and a big part of that is the realistic and grimy but clean and readable cinematic Half-Life visual style.
The way I described Deadlock in a conversation is that it's a Hero Shooter trend chaser by the company that invented the genre. It's absolutely delusional to create a new IP based on a genre that you invented instead of using the IP you already have.
It kinda reminds me of the 343i-era Halo titles. Halo basically invented the modern console FPS, standardizing many things now taken for granted (2 weapon limits, regenerating health, grenades/melee being a "hotkey" rather than a separate weapon you need to swap to, aim assist/magnetism, etc.), to a generic trend-chaser trying to do whatever's popular at the time. (Halo 4 tried to copy COD which was at it's peak at the time, Halo 5 tried to copy Titanfall which was at it's peak at the time, Halo: Infinite tried to copy the generic Ubisoft open-world slop which was at it's peak at the time, etc.) Halo at least has the excuse of the rights being given to a new company that was, by their own admission and in their own words, consisting of "people who hated Halo".
valve the company that has been praised for its originality and constant new IPs for decades is now being bashed for not just reusing the same old IP's and doing nothing new? would you rather valve made a cashgrab with an old IP because they know it would get lots of money instantly just because its a beloved IP like every other game developer does??
10:52 "You're trying to sell me this game being like tf2, class based shooter, and you're putting in lanes? how disgusting" Nobody is trying to sell you the game being like anything. It's an invite by friend only play test. The game has hardly been acknowledged by Valve outside of a bare-bones public Steam store that just says "Deadlock is a multiplayer game in early development."
Exactly, it's never even been stated to be a classed based shooter! Why should they cater to his false assumptions, it's a moba, let them make their moba.
Rants about valves new title that is still in development hasn't played the beta bases nearly all opinions on 4 screenshots and a couple clips of someone playing the tutorial with no other players mentions only valves failures the past few years likely intentionally doesn't mention half-life: alyx likely intentionally doesn't mention aperture desk job doesn't mention how much longer they already supported tf2 than any other AAA dev mentions Erik wolpaw leaving (he's been back at valve since hla) conveniently barely hiding the text that says he returned at 20:53 same exact thing for jay pinkerton many such cases.
I agree. Though I personally still cannot say that Valve have been good as a company for the past decade. Because they mostly either made pretty good games for the hardware that is only available for rich people (both VR and Steam Deck), or they simply focused on profit from Steam and microtransactions in multiplayer games. Like, the only games that most people can afford are CS2, Dota 2, TF2 (now its hardly playable because of the bots), and the singleplayer games that were released in 1998-2011! It would be great if they would also make some more singleplayer games for PC and/or consoles. But for now it doesn't seem like an options in the near future.
Yeah this video sucks. I don't get the point of making a video of just being "hey here's what this guy said and I'm angry" Like I get it, I wanna get on the hate valve bandwagon too but like... this ain't it.
I have a problem with your TF2 point, Valve absolutely deserves all the condemnation they’ve gotten over their terrible handling of a bot crisis in a game that they still pump new paid content into even though they are unwilling to properly maintain their own servers. Also WoW has been supported by Blizzard for longer so that point about Valve supporting TF2 longer than any other AAA game is incorrect, other games will also soon surpass or have already surpassed TF2 in how long they’ve been fully supported by their devs (remember TF2 had significant Valve development from around 2007-2017) games like World of Tanks and even Fortnite are getting close to or have already surpassed TF2’s active development so Valve deserves no praise there
"Half Life Alyx and Aperture Desk Job" A game most people didn't play either because they couldn't afford to, or didn't want buy a vr headset for 1 game, and a 5 minute tech demo. Also why shouldn't Valve maintain TF2 AND CSGO when they still make money off them?
I don’t think people know this video was posted months before valve allowed it to be publicly talked about. Meaning he purposely tried to sabotage deadlock because his butthurt Valve isn’t updating a 13+ years old game. The sad state of this fool.
Scepticism is the healthy choice at this point. Not despair or "nihilism" but just general caution with things based on recent trends. If it ends up being good then you are pleasently surprised. If not then its smug satisfaction.
This game is almost exactly like supermonday night combat but updated for modern times. This guy has nevwr played the game obviously and the people saying it is anything like over watch or counter strike could not be more wrong
Valve just forgot that what makes their games unique is the fact that they are simple to understand, simple to play and to watch. Creating a new thing because some new genres are poppin up is not the right thing to do.
It feels like this leak really couldn't have come at a worse time. All this renewed interest in revitalizing TF2 and word spreading about just how bad of a state that game is in, coinciding with the revelation that Valve is wasting their time on... This...
And on top of all of that, a time when 99% of these online games coming out are dying in their first month (Worms Rumble, Nick All Star Brawl, Headbangers Rhythm Royale, etc). So many of the companies making these games would do ANYTHING for the loyal fanbase TF2 and CS had, but they just remain ignored.
Roflmao… TF2 is well past its prime. It has very little room to grow in this day and age. Deadlock already has more players in alpha and is being praised by people from different gaming communities.
@@thevannmann tf2 could still easily pull another 10 years just from community content alone. Also deadlock is good. I have played it, So tldr: deadlock good, tf2 deserves better.
Fix needs to fix/keep updating the games that literally got them where they are, if they weren't so devoid of seeing what the people want then we would have like 5 new games by now
@Seus-s I have tried it and if theyxdont fix alot of the problems and add a real anti cheat the game will die fast like csgo2 did and how tf2 has been left to rot with cheating still being a problem
@@domicci4460 I don't follow this narrative that a game should be judged this early as a finished product. Ofc there's still things to patch but is still early access and has a very good concurrent amount of people testing it out.
Don't comment often, and I doubt you'll see this, but had a few thoughts. Gotta say, this was pretty rough to watch, and I know that I shouldn't be expecting balanced and even-keeled commentary from Downward Diary but this felt particularly overly cynical. Even if you acknowledge that it's a "totally unfair and unreasonable rant," that doesn't really justify complaining about your assumptions about a game that you admit you haven't tried and the only real source of information at the time was just leaked screencaps and people describing it. Acknowledging that you are shooting yourself in the foot doesn't make it any less dumb. However, I do think that this gets at a few interesting trends that are becoming problematic for the games industry as a whole. Primarily, the dominance of comparison in how we describe new games. I don't know when exactly this started, but every new game that comes out seems to be described as "like X but Y" or the "X of the Y genre." There are times where I think these comparisons are helpful, but more often than not these comparisons feel forced and actually obfuscate how it really feels to play a certain game. Sure, saying "Valorant is Riot's Counter-Strike" is actually a pretty fair statement, but that only really holds because of how similar the core gameplay of those two games are. Most of these comparisons just junk up discourse about two games in the same genre. The most obvious example for me is the constant comparison of TF2 and OW. Sure, the games are similar on the surface level (i.e. both team shooters with similar objective systems) but I think the constant comparison hides a lot of the difference in game feel between the two. The gunplay of Team Fortress 2 is much more biased towards precise, single-shot weapons (Scattergun, Rocket Launcher, etc.) w. few rapid-fire options (Heavy being the notable exception) where as OW's gunplay has a mix of precise hitscan and tracking favored weapons. There are also a lot more resource management elements to OW that just... aren't in TF2 for the most part, and the list continues on and on. These constant comparisons make talking about new games a lot harder, though, because it creates a perception of a game that isn't really fair, meaningful, or rooted in how the game feels to play. This comparison problem is super evident in how Deadlock was described by people who played it as being this blend of TF2, DOTA, OW, and CS. Having played it, I really don't think that this is a good description of how the game feels. TF2 is only really being thrown in there due to being the other "Valve Class-based Shooter" - the gunplay is nothing alike, the TTK is nothing alike, and the objective system is totally divorced. Same with CS - I think people only bring it up because it's another Valve Shooter. Deadlock's gun system is fully hit-scan and tracking-focused, which isn't like the precision-first systems in either TF2 of CS. Hell, it's not like OW in this regard either, because OW puts a lot more emphasis on the diversity of its weapons, whereas many of Deadlock's weapons feel very same-y. As mentioned in other comments, the most direct comparison is probably to Smite, but I would just call Deadlock a Third-Person MOBA. The issue with comparisons, outside from just being misleading and often plain wrong, is that when we always describe new games as being like old games, new games are always going to feel derivative. And to this point, I think you have a great argument - if Deadlock really WAS just a blend of elements from TF2, DOTA, OW, and CS, I think it would feel like a game that lacked a strong identity and would probably just sputter out as it tried to compete with those preexisting PvP games that are already on the market. Granted, I think Deadlock is far from a perfect game as is - I actually really dislike it. I still think that MOBAs in general kinda suck - as someone without infinite time to sit around and queue up, it really does suck to spend 30 minutes of a 40 minute game knowing that I'm going to lose and being unable to effectively fight other people because my teammate across the map fed into his laner. I think the artstyle looks super bland and forgettable, with this weird choice to go all in on these boring grays and beige tones across the map (when did we forget that the coloration of the map indicating overall position, which worked so well in TF2, should be something that is still used?) that leave it feeling lifeless and disorienting. But comparing it to these pre-existing games isn't a good comparison, and doing so only hides the real issues with Deadlock behind the complaint that it's just going to be derivative and forgettable. And the constant use of comparisons as a crutch for writing good, accurate descriptions belies how low the bar has gotten within the game journalism sphere. Another interesting point you brought up is how Valve as a company has gotten divorced from the iconic style of games it used to make. It's interesting how many people still expect every Valve game to be the same as the ones made in 2004 - many of those fans are younger than the games in the Orange Box. But I think the movement away from these crafted single-player experiences by Valve and other large companies in the games industry is indicative of another movement, that being the rise of the indie game. I think the real reason that more and more AAA companies keep sinking money into PvP releases that fizzle out and die is because they know they can't compete with indie games for the single-player space. In fact, I would go so far as to argue that a large majority of the most celebrated single-player games of the last 5 years have been indie games, with AAA companies only trying to compete in areas where they feel like they have a large technical advantage (which leads to most AAA single-player games being large, open-world games in the style of FromSoftware, Ubisoft, CD Projekt Red, or Rockstar). Because the technical barrier to entry for successful PvP games is so high (server infrastructure, netcode, etc.) it's one of the few places where AAA companies aren't actually competing with indie developers for market share, so they can get away with releasing mediocre to bad games year after year as long as people keep buying (see Call of Duty, etc.). While there have been a few breakout games in the space (e.g. BattleBit Remastered offering competition to the poor release of Battlefield 2042) by and large these companies don't have to deal with indie competition in the PvP space. And it's pretty obvious why these companies don't want to compete in the non-PvP space, because the level of innovation in those spaces is much, much higher than in the PvP space. Hell, even in PvE, the existence of P2P hosting allows for smaller games like Deep Rock Galactic to set the bar for what a live-service game should be in those arenas. So I predict that we'll see more and more large companies doubling down on PvP as the last space where they can really use their large resources to actually make better games, which of course will lead to the cannibalization of the space as all these companies start releasing very similar games (as we've already seen with hero shooters and battle royales). I think Valve's movement away from single-player experiences like Half-Life and Portal towards games like Artifact and Deadlock are indicative of this ongoing trend - even if Valve's goal isn't to make money, they still want their games to be enjoyed by as many people. I just hope that they realize that the Valve brand is still strong enough to get people interested in anything they release in the single-player space, even if it may not be as technologically groundbreaking as HL1 and HL2 or Portal. The actual biggest complaint I think I do have with Valve's current games is their continued insistence on leaning on microtransactions and gambling to make money. And yeah, if Deadlock keeps pushing that trend of monetization when it drops, I'll be pretty frustrated as well that the one company who can afford to drop games at a loss because they have the money printer that is Steam is still hyperfixated on maximizing profit and optimizing the fun out of games. But that's not something I can really judge from the closed alpha, because we still have no idea what the monetization model is going to look like. Not expecting much, but maybe we can get a game from an industry leader that can help take modern gaming monetization back in the right direction. Sorry for the big text block - I'm just really passionate about this topic and think that your rant does bring up a lot of interesting points, even if I think that many of the complaints you have are kinda just knocking down strawmen. P.S - as a longtime TF2 player, the DD about that was fantastic. Keep it up.
Great comment. I have some things to say about as well. Yeah now that you mentioned it... this was an EXTREMELY cynical video. Granted, Emplemon is a very cynical person in general, (especially on downward diary) but even by his standards this was brutal. And while I do agree that he didn't really have a good reference point to go off of his feelings on Deadlock, in his slight defense, he didn't really have any other options given how it was only those leaks at first and as of right now, the game is invite only so a lot of people don't have any means of easily accessing deadlock but I agree that Emp should have at least gone off more than what he had. I agree with the whole game comparisons point completely. It's why I hate people saying "deadlock is a replacement for TF2" or anything like that. Because let's face it, the ONLY thing they have in common are being class based shooters owned by valve. One thing I want to add is that while the game's reputation has certainly improved, I do think it's fair to explain why a lot of people weren't impressed especially at the start. Imagine you're a huge fan of Valve's games, you adore Half life, Portal, the older counter strike games, left 4 dead, Team fortress 2, Day of defeat, the like. But after DOTA 2, you slowly start drifting away from valve for a ton of reasons (neglecting every game that wasn't CSGO and DOTA 2, mishandling TF2 and eventually abandoning it, Artifact [I'll get to that one later], and all the monetization) then after so many years of radio silence, they come out with Artifact... a game nobody wanted or asked for, and it made valve look horribly out of touch with what their fanbase wanted. The game's insanely greedy monetization only made things worse, especially after it bombed. Years later, when TF2 is currently going though the bot crisis while Valve refuses to do anything about it, you discovered that this deadlock game is what was taking Valve's time and resources away. Obviously, I can't speak for everyone but I would be certainly lying if I tried to deny plenty of people, especially after everything I mentioned felt that way, to those on the outside, especially those who were classic valve fans, it really did look like Valve learned nothing from Artifact and it seemed that history would repeat itself. One thing I want to add that I haven't seen or heard anyone talk about. Mainly, how long will the hype for deadlock last? Sure, despite being invite only, the game is doing Shockley well. And there's definitely people who genuinely enjoy it. But I want to ask the question, will it last? I mean Overwatch was unstoppable during 2016 and 2017, but it fell off HARD. Any number of things can utterly ruin deadlock's legacy, but... for now we'll have to wait and see.
I hate the neglect of TF2 just as much as Emp does; but it's simply not true that Valve has produced nothing but bad products in recent years: the steam deck was a huge achievement in gaming tech. Deadlock looks okay at least; but it doesn't blow me away, I will have to play it when it releases.
to anyone reading the comments, its just a moba shooter, if you dont like mobas you probably wont like it, this guy doesnt like mobas, hes not going to like it, saved you a really painful watching experience
This guy from the vid could make the same video about dota 2, yapping about. "Ohhh, valve has cs and tf 2, who would even play dota it's a stupid moba, and all valve fans only love shooting pow pew"
@@slamjam7676 That's fair enough, but most of those are secondary additions and aren't essential to the game, vs. a proper hero shooter where (almost) every class has a set of cooldown skills
@@Pimploaf_YTPcooldown skills don't define an entire genre, it's such a broad mechanic that's existed in plenty of other genres long before hero shooters
@@Pimploaf_YTPcooldown skills don't define an entire genre, it's such a broad mechanic that's existed in plenty of other genres long before hero shooters.
i played a game, and i can safely say now that this is bullshit Game's fine, don't project TF2 problems on other valve products. this is alfa of something big, icefrog is cooking bro
I like how he compared this game to cs and tf2 but literally the only things it has in common with those games is being a shooter and with tf2 maybe also picking a character and that’s it
@@MrDanielcool13because more players means it must be good. The recent cod game has more players than both games, I guess that means it's the best game ever. Your logic is fucked.
@@d0ct0rz3d4no but a lot of people called this dead on arrival and it’s pulling 30k+ while only being playable through invites. I’ve only heard good from people who played it. Imagine when it releases
Played all week anyone who thinks this game will be dead on arrival has no fucking clue what they are talking about this game is competition for games like smite and predecessors this game will definitely have its own audience for years to come And every tf2 dota cry babies need to gtfo here cuz this games was never meant for you or your 17 yr old game just move on already
The situation is even worse. The entire "Deadlock" IP was almost last minute, as just a month or 2 ago, it was originally "Neon Prime" and was set to be a "cassette-future" sorta aesthetic. Not to mention the lead dev IceFrog, the main dev for Dota 2, seemingly left the project as he's been working on Dota 2 this whole time. This game is set to either be the most hilarious failure of all time, or a miracle child for Valve.
Valve employes can chose there what to work on, the are not put on a game they chose to work on it. So Iceforg working on Deadlock, got an idea for Dota and went to work on that game. Sometimes they just stop working on a game.
uhhh no it was definitely not cassette futurism, idk abt citadel maybe that looked cool but neon prime’s art direction looked like complete a55, overwatch but 1000x more soulless, so glad they changed it. Still looks kinda mid sadly.
Will deadlock be bad? Maybe. What I don't like is that you say valves recent releases have all been bad and you choose to ignore half life alyx being an incredible game. You do this because it doesn't fit the narrative you wish to portray
@@shadow50011 aperture desk, tf2 bot detection (this took long, but it's 15+ years game... original devs are not there anymore. reading a codebase that large is very very very hard)
@@nodge9671 dude they'll be complaining in 2050 that tf2 is not maintained anymore God forbid a developer to have some life, no no, it should be a forever slave to a single game he doesn't even want to develop anymore I love deadlock but what a sad existence if I am 60 years old wishing for a deadlock update from icefrog grandson
@@pooshpoosh9232 Not if they actually announce EoL and give the franchise to the community. Part of why people don't trust Valve anymore is their lackluster communication that they had between Blue Moon and the latest hacker ban wave.
It sucks for people like me who have wanted to get into Team Fortress, but are soured on it because of how awful it's neglected. Them owning Team Fortress and choosing to make a new IP instead is insane to me
I think this one of the cringiest video Emp has made. "This is gonna flop." Top 10 most played game on steam in closed alpha. I wonder if he'll address this or just pretend like it didn't happen.
It was three months ago when I watched this video. At first I agreed, "What is valve thinking making a hero shooter like OW, are they stupid?". Thought deadlock was just gonna be a cashcow. Then I saw leaks of how its played, and I thought "Oh wow the character design is kinda cool, wait it has a shop system!? Thats very interesting" A month after I stopped playing tf2 because i got burntout. Saw more about deadlock and I thought "ITS A MOBA SHOOTER!?". Being someone whos played plenty of Dota before, my ape brain turned the bulb on and I gave it a shot. 50hours of gaming later and... I love this game. Taking aspects of a standard hero shooter yet adding the kinds of mechanics youd see in a moba and changing it so both styles of gameplay meld well with each other is am amazing idea. The character design is great(and will be better too since some of the designs arent even final), the setting is great, the movement feels so fun, and aware this game isnt gonna be for everyone, but I think that's a good thing. I came into this video thinking blindly about fixtf2 and how valve is declining. But then I got out of that phase, Its ashame tf2 wont be getting the attention its fanbase wants. But Deadlock proves that they were actually cooking with this one, and its naysayers like this youtuber in question, should never be bandwagoned upon
In 3 months a lot of things can change. I played tf2 since 2016 and have been playing comp for a few years. Me and my tf2 friends are all ready to hop in the Deadlock train knowing nothing about moba’s like a month ago. However, I don’t think it’s right to hate on someone for speaking their thoughts because everyone was thinking what EmpLemon was saying 3 months ago. Deadlock’s success is big and I have no doubt I’ll keep playing it but no one knows how things will look like in a year or so.
Playercount went from 8k to 170k+ concurrent players in the span of about 3 weeks, every major streamer/many former pro players of games like ow/valorant have already fully switched to it and creating content for it, there is a 10,000$ tournament happening tomorrow and people will STILL say this game is gonna die, it’s “slop” and a copy of (insert game here). And these people haven’t even played it, that’s the funny part.
At least TF2 has the excuse of being a 17 year old game. Valve's most recent title was CS2: a glorified source port of CSGO with barely any new content, and it's probably the most buggy unpolished mess right now, not to mention the game is barely a year old and already has a bot crisis, and Valve has done jack shit to fix it.
could you explain why cs2 is a buggy mess? been playing since beta and I personally believe that the game is actually very polished, I agree with you on the lack of content, not like they haven't already made the content, they just choose to drip feed the content such as maps, game modes etc. and as far as I'm aware with the bot situation, valve really is doing something, they banned roughly 300k bot accounts just last week, there are public stats you can look up.
@@consolegamer1122 There are a million tiny minutiae things that add up which would take forever too list here, but to summarize it: probably one of the biggest issues outside of cheaters/bots right now is just the general gunplay feeling off compared to CSGO, the main reason for this I suspect is the subtick system that Valve was hyping up to the launch of CS2. If you're a casual player this probably won't affect you much, but if your competitive then you understand that ticks are basically everything when it comes to the smoothness of gameplay. One of FaceIt's main selling points is that it hosts 128 tick servers which are double that of Valve's embarrassingly outdated 60 tick servers. Outside of that, I also find it particularly scummy especially of Valve when they forced CS:GO players to migrate over to CS2 rather than have a natural community segue. It comes off as insecure, like Valve no longer has the confidence they used to when it comes to making sequels to games. Imagine if Valve forced players from L4D1 to move to L4D2, but L4D2 has less content - and is full of new bugs and a substantial lack of polish.
@@spimpsmacker6422 the gunplay feels fine. Subtick at any tickrate (64 on Valve servers btw, you sped) is objectively more precise than traditional tick-based networking. They forced the upgrade to CS2 because of the skin economy and the competitive scene - Left 4 Dead is not a competitive shooter with a tournament scene and complex network of organisations and sponsors. You think like a child
@@acex222 Okay sorry I accidently got the number off by only four digits, I didn't mean to set off your sperg alarm. Secondly no, the subtick system is shit. I don't know what exactly it is within the code that causes it to fuck with the game, but most people will agree that it screws with the gunplay and hit registration too much. Forcing players to move to a new platform is something Valve has never done with a sequel, they didn't do it with 1.6 and CS:GO, they didn't do it with TFC and TF2, so why is this such an exception? 1.6 tournaments still went on years into CS:GO's early life and both games were completely fine in the end. Skins make even less sense when they're literally just game textures with an arbitrary price value, even if Valve had to update both games simultaneously to keep the economy in balance, I don't think it will kill them to keep up with the task of adding a few pngs to the game.
@@spimpsmacker6422 64 ticks is something anyone who's qualified to have any opinion on tickrate should know - it's a sign you're thick as a brick outhouse. "most people will agree" isn't meaningful, because it goes in the fact of hard facts - it makes hits and misses more precise. Subtick is an improvement over 64 ticks because categorically cannot miss a shot that was going to hit due to tickrate. "Adding a few PNGs" child with no concept of work detected, opinion dismissed
3 months later and I guess we don't have to worry about "Valve's reputation as a company tank(ing) in a way that has never been seen in their entire existence." 🤣I think your intuition was a bit off.
No wonder. He's just bitching about it not being tf2 when it isn't meant to be tf2. There's no point, or take. Dude's just being a diper baby about something he didn't even play
@@personman5156 it did . only salty tf2 fanboys can accept that Deadlock is good and fun and very addictive game and most of them just sad cuz Valve not doing shit with a 17 yo game
“It’s weird to review a game that’s not even out yet!” Proceeds to review the game without even playing the play test? What are we doing here? It has nothing to do with CS, something you could have found out if you played the game lmao. I’m keeping an open mind on this game, the play-test for not even being a beta is pretty well fleshed out. TF2 is gonna die at some point, I loved the game but it’s been well past its prime for years. All things end, get over it. They were going to move on at some point, it’s the way it goes.
I generally agree with this comment, but you need to understand that tf2 is an incredibly unique game. There's just nothing quite like it, so it will continue to live for many more years. That and the community built around it for that reason leads to a self sustaining reaction of not really losing players. Point is: TF2 deserves to live, but so does deadlock, and valve could definitely do both no problem, especially since it's two different teams that could work on both.
They could just... continue TF2 development. Like, the demand for a fixed, regularly updated TF2 is HUGE, they would make INSANE amounts of money in crates and key sales. TF2 was actually competing against Overwatch 1 AND WINNING back when it was still receiving balance changes and regular updates with new maps and items.
@@Vanished584 and the player count is piss poor once you account for the assload of (trading) bots. It's, objectively speaking about on par with l4d2. it's no wonder they haven't spent much effort on it lol.
@@ThePacmandevil Playercount isnt really a good estimate as you pointed out, cause its inflated. Things like the SaveTF2 petition is a good estimate of how relevent TF2 is in current year. As of me typing this, savetf2 has 267k signatures. Thats just an insane number of people who give a shit about this game.
TF2
Step 1: Make a PvP shooter.
Step 2: Have no real anti-cheat.
Step 3: Get a rampant cheating problem.
CS2
Step 1: Make a PvP shooter.
Step 2: Have no real anti-cheat.
Step 3: Get a rampant cheating problem.
Deadlock
Step 1: Make a PvP shooter.
Step 2: Have no real anti-cheat.
Step 3: ???
Why are they like this
TF2’s so old, it’s more like:
Step 1: Make PvP shooter
Step 2: it becomes one of the best multiplayer games of all time
Step 3: after 10 years, let it rot
Step 4: your anti-cheat gets outdated and game gets infected by cheaters
Step 5: still take people’s money for new microtransactions
Step 6: repeat steps 4 and 5 ad infinitum.
@@Brother_Piner infinite money generator glitch
@@Brother_Piner
step 5.5: add more microtransactions instead of events ro content
...
step 7: community has enough, protests.
step 8: "we are working on it!"
step 9: update the anticheat.
step 10: repeat steps 4 to 5.
and if the #fixtf2 geos the way it is supposed to be going, then :
step 11: community protest stops giving money.
step 12: money lost.
step 13: actually start doing something.
that is of course if they just don't work around it, or ignore it.
Do you prefer kernel level anti-cheat? Because that's the next step they have to go to just to try to get cheaters caught. Kernel level anti-cheat is more intrusive then vac anti-cheat.
@@Gigakoopz Yes i do prefer, no I'm not a schizoid linux user. i prefer a cheaterless game than stealing my non-existant data
What 2532 days with no TF2 update does to a mf (edited @ 25/09/2024)
wait until tf2 fans realise they can move on to different games
@@Givnus like that'll ever happen
@@Oskar-iu8tr we refuse to move on you motherfuckers.
Imagine what a sad reality, 40 years of your life playing a single game
@@Givnus You can also move on and not play any game at all, not just tf2. There are plenty of fun things to do irl. What's your point?
this did not age well
@@whointhewho trying to turn another comment section into a deadlock circle jerk like you did with SGO?
@@d0ct0rz3d4 Don't cry because TF2 will be replaced by Deadlock in the near future. Enjoy your game while it last
@@MrDanielcool13 it might have a higher player count now, but it sure as hell won't replace it. The only way it could is if valve shuts down tf2, which is probably why you want that. Enjoy your esports bullshit, you corporate shill.
@@MrDanielcool13you probably suck at tf2.
@@MrDanielcool13 We sure as hell will, you think we will just up and leave because you tell us to or your comment gets tons of likes?
old man yells at cloud
This guys a certified moron. This game will absolutely take over. Early access and its the most hyped game currently. Completely unfinished sure, it literally tells you that. Going to be deciding whether to play this or GTA 6 next year because theres no other competitor. What a horrible stupid take. Guy needs to stick to playing stardew valley and mario and review those and keep his opinions off real games.
isnt any critique of media basically that
19:33 pretty rose tinted there. Tf2's crates have been aids for more than a decade now
I was about to disagree with you but then I realised 2015/2016 was nearly 10 years ago
I love TF2 but yeah, the crates are terrible
TF2's crates poisoned the gaming industry in the long run. It's a miracle we managed to bully the major coporations into stopping that practice.
@@pyerack yeah, even cosmetic only nobody should be forced to gamble to get the hat they want. I bought all my hats from the marketplace but them being there means someone bought a lootbox key to get it.
@@pyerack And the fact Valve tried to introduce CS:GO match-making and a loot/quality system into TF2. That was when TF2 died for me.
Gabe gets on stage to announce Deadlock. Says "now doesnt that game sound epic!? Here's the reveal!" They proceed to show a half life 3 trailer.
bro... it won't happen...
God, if only.
Then we wake up and realise it was just a bad dream
Here you go - ARTIFACT VR!
God, I sincerely wish it would happen, but man it sounds so insane and cartoony
its insane to think that valve is making ANOTHER multiplayer pvp game when their 2 biggest, TF2 and CS2 are BOTH being destroyed by hackers and cheaters and neglect because valve considers anti-cheat to be "treadmill work" that isn't worth doing. How the hell can they expect people to dedicate time and energy to a new multiplayer game when they've shown us that they don't care to actually take care of their multiplayer games on even the most basic level.
it aint even treadmill work lol, community servers with their SMAC and STAC are hard cock-blocking tf2 cheating, restricting even the best cheats to low fov aimbot (barely useful lol), clientside visuals and ESP. can bots really work on those AC? No. Can you code a cheat that lets you use every current feature without getting banned on STAC? No. It's not treadmill work, you dont need to make an anticheat that bans every cheat and every cheater. you need something like STAC that doesnt let you shoot 270 degrees away from your camera, like bots do, doesnt let you fake player angles (anti-aim), like bots do, doesnt let you perform pixel-frame perfect movement, like bots do. let cheaters play the game, they're really not that good and they never were a problem in a game that isnt even about shooting all that much, its move about movement and teamwork than anything
@@vaseslavy8516 Would the anti-cheats that community servers use work well if all the cheaters were trying to crack it 24/7?
you mean fps games not pvp. dota 2 is much bigger now than tf2 ever was.
Also dealing with cheaters is always going to be treadmill work. Unless you have a anticheat that cannot be beat.
@@Fighter_Blue there is no such thing possible as an unbeatable anticheat
calling icefrog and his team are bunch of 4 years old is crazy...
dude architects dota 2 for 14 years and maintaining 500k plus daily active players in those years, biggest esports and prize pool...its disrespectful cuh 😂
Nah icefrog have worked on DotA all stars since 01.03.2005 that is 19 years and 9 months
basicly..who is this guy even? :)))) everybody knows icefrog...but ..who the f are you mate ?:))))))
Not only that but Icefrog is actually the progenitor of MOBAs, without him we probably wouldn't have the MOBA genre as it is right now. The guy is an innovator and an inventor. But to diss him like this and put this game beside Blizzard slop? Absolute uninformed trash take. The game keeps booming, might as well delete this video.
@@LedzQQ As much as I like IceFrog, he didn't create Dota, he didn't create Aeon of Strife (the SC map that inspired the Dota mod), the only thing he did is pick up the Dota mod after a bunch of other devs abandoned it and turn it into a franchise with a huge esports scene.
He's a genius game designer but don't give him too much credit.
It's baffling to me that Valve can't figure out how to make anti-cheat to save their lives, yet are making another multiplayer online shooter that is supposed to be played in esports.
CSGO and TF2 are pretty much unplayable in pubs due to cheaters. Can't wait to see the bot swarms that will infect Deadlock lol
From the looks of it, Valve doesn't want to make intrusive anti-cheat
They have been developing AI based VAC and it seems to be working on CS2
The main reason Valve games have become notorious for cheating is because Valve is trying to be non-invasive with their products. Steam does not force a strong DRM on you (except when publishers do), and similarly CS and TF2 don't come with invasive anti-cheat, and most of their games are on Linux etc. The only deterrent to cheating problem IMHO is slapping a 70$ price tag on multiplayer games with perma-ban and active moderation going on ban sprees. It might sound like I'm defending Valve here, but this is entirely a problem they cooked for themselves by inventing the F2P model. TLDR online gaming is fucked
@@r.g.thesecond Another thing is, cheating is getting more advanced as time goes
Back then, it's just a simple cheat engine script
Fast forward now, cheats now runs at kernel level, and gaming companies retaliate by making kernel level AC
In the future?
Hardware based cheat I bet, and how are they gaming companies gonna counter that?
To be fair no games have no effective anti cheat. Its basically over devs will never keep up.
@@amspook Or you just send display input to a AI then have fake mouse driver deliver auto aim.
The bot count on TF2 is disturbing. The constant DDoS attacks L4D2 faces is frustrating. The hacking in CS2 is downright unacceptable. Valve's been complacent for too long, and needs to be called out.
@BeerCanBennytheIV I can tell why you have no friends if you can't scrounge up a group to play versus with.
@BeerCanBennytheIV I never thought someone could describe L4D2 versus so accurately, its always been like this, unless you got friends to play with (pain in the ass to find 8 willing individuals that arent dickheads for a full lobby) its always gonna feel like everyone on that lobby is on edge.
The FixTF2 thing i see is like a last ditch effort to try to convinve Valve to maintain their servers, but there is a huge percent of the playerbase who only play Official servers and never bother with communiry servers even though they're ultimatemy gonna be the thing that will keep TF2 running in the long run, they treat TF2 like its a modern day game and forget that its an old source engine multiplayer game and its a miracle Valve is even bothering with official servers.
@@Source121 Overblown my ass, anything above top 5% percentile is infested with cheaters
You're probably the gold nova projecting, I was global and I have been around 18k in cs2 playing with friends and it is absolutely fucking infested with cheaters, while faceit and similar third party services only have the occasional cheater (and they usually get banned, while by VAC they don't)
And if 18k is infested I cannot imagine how 20k+ is, probably a cheater in nearly every match, it's probably rarer to get a cheat free match than a match with a cheater, they have verifiably absurd inhuman leetify stats very often and they go unbanned for months, if not years.
@@youbaouahdi4358 People always conveniently forget that TF2 is still being actively monetized by VALVe, till this day, you can expect cosmetics being dropped on the game 3 TIMES A YEAR complete with cases, new unusual effects and taunts so you can gamble away all your payday, all of it community made slop that's either not in touch with the games artstyle or down right not working, while at the same time ignoring one of the most blatant hackers we've ever seen in VG history only because they are too lazy to do something that will actually work, any other company would've been burned at the stake for this, but VALVe made Half-Life 25 years ago so they can't do no wrong.
Community servers are going to be the future eventually, but until then VALVe in no point or opportunity has confirmed that they ceased development of TF2, until then we can expect them to at least fix the blatant and most playerbase damaging issues that pop up here and there, no one behind #SAVETF2 is expecting for VALVe to also do the teased Heavy update or rebalance certain weapons to be more useful or fun, we just want for the vanilla game to be playable for many reasons, community servers aren't perfect either and you can't expect every single type of player to just go over to community servers when the browser sucks and looks super ugly, the servers could have changed any number of gameplay values, they could reserved spaces that either won't let you ocupy while joining or you get kicked because someone that donated money to the server patreon wants to join, and the servers withouth this problem tend to attract the kidn of people that have 10K+ hours put into the game that wil stomp you and make your stay on said server miserable, it just makes more sense to fix the official public servers since, again, the issue is so blatant it stoped being funny years ago.
@@Source121 Yeah, that's why CS2 RUclipsrs like WarOwl have publicly denounced the cheating problem, right? He must be some GN2 scrub that can't hit the broad side of a barnyard to save his mother's life.
Dude, take it from a TF2 fan, we as a community stopped caring early on, thinking VALVe would be doing something against the bot problem, its been 5 years, the bot hosters no ontl hold the game hostage, they have harassed, extorted, DDOS'd, doxxed and even swated people speaking against the bot problem, don't be like us, demand an actual solution to the hacking problem from VALVe, VAC-ban waves are not reliable long term specially when the game the people are getting banned from is F2P, remind VALVe that they released a sequel to a succesful game with less gameplay features and fixing almost none of the problems people had with the prequel, mainly hitreg and anticheat, but the cases came before any map update and will continue coming on schedule because VALVe only cares about money anymore, any other company who acted like this would be destroyed by the public opinion, yet VALVe, as always, gets a free pass.
CS:GO: Infested with Hackers
* Ignored *
CS2: Infested with Bots
* Ignored *
TF2: Infested Hackers and Bots
* Ignored *
Deadlock: (Your Answer Here)
Protoman: cool as usual
L4D2: being practically unplayable due to DDOS attacks against official servers
Lootbox sales down 1% : REAL SHIT
Half life 3
:ignored:
@@karmawin7970not even l4D2 is spared
>makes video (have games been on a downward spiral?) about people judging and hating video games before even playing them or coming out
>proceeds to do the same thing
I guess he's hating... because he's passionate i guess?
reddit spacing
@@GrubbyWubbynot really reddit, moreso greentext. Formatting doesn't take away from the content of the comment tho.
@@ambralemon r/4chan
@@GrubbyWubby What is blud blabbering about.
@@GrubbyWubby how do you know?
Bit of a self report tbh
As someone who's played in the closed beta for this game, Tyler's comment about it being like basically every other Valve game combined is grossly incorrect. The game that Deadlock is closest to being is like Smite from Hi-rez but you have freedom to aim in all directions. Deadlock has no elements from TF2 or CS. It's just a 3rd person over the shoulder MOBA.
literally is.
bah Tyler is annoying and makes constant click baity videos, and even Valve hates him for other reasons.
@@someguy4512Don't get me even startarted on that guy i hate him so mutch.
Tyler is a bad source honestly. He made a bunch of fuss and clickbait saying "VALVE IS SUING FANS!!!" when in reality it was people straight stealing tf2 source code and another group getting told by valve to not piss off Nintendo. Then refused to edit the video,
@@total_epicness6776 his a leach.
Steam rusted the valve. This game is not the oil we need.
ALRIGHT ALRIGHT I GET IT I WAS WRONG THE GAMES FINE SHUT UP NOW AND ITS ACTUALLY THE OIL WE NEEDED.
Well said
10/10
🔥🔥🔥🔥✍️
Did you make that up or steal it?
The valve is stuck in a deadlock
Most of the original devs don't work at Valve anymore which is why modern Valve is so out-of-touch with their player base.
@@tehjamerz I KNOW, some of the employees at Valve tried to force the old heads to make a PR response during the Black Lives Matter movement. WHY?! VALVE IS A VIDEO GAME COMPANY, WHO CARES WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY! Gabe understands this and so he gave his employees $100k each to donate to whatever charity they wanted. He had to give them hush money, this company is fucked!
@@RambunctiousRaccon he should just sell to Microsoft so we can all give up hope
@@RambunctiousRaccon I never got the idea of big companies trying to make a statement about any political affairs. Most of the time it's so horribly executed and makes them look out of touch.
I thought Valve was better than this, but you could say that for anything they've done for the past few years.
@@tehjamerz I've heard that Valve employees are jealous that the TF2/CS2 community does a better job at creating and maintaining Valve's games than Valve. I'm starting to think that's true because there's no excuse for these issues to remind for so long. Unless modern Valve wants to do away with the other games and replace it with this Dota Dota Overwatch slop no one enjoys.
@@RambunctiousRaccon How many of the devs that made TF2 will work at valve? If it is close to none then i can see why valve does not want to work on it.
You should never listen to your intuition ever again.
LOL
He should.
@@stonecold-i7cthe ratio
I played 4 hours of this game. And will not return. Its mechanically not good. Nothing meshes well. And the game doesnt know what it wants to be. Imo this game is just not good.
@@michaelflanagan6556 😂 well too bad for you the eh?
The most baffling thing is, Valve is a private company who runs the largest games platform on PC with a massive revenue stream. They don't HAVE to do this, they don't HAVE to pump out cash grab trend following games, they have an effective blank check to make literally whatever they want and not even care about the sunk cost. They can literally make anything but they've become stale and creatively bankrupt
The inverse truth of it is that they don't HAVE to make games period, so of course a company that has effectively abandoned game making as their primary output is going to lose the talented people that actually want to make video games, the talent that made the Valve name what it is today.
@@Rusty_Spy Imagine if VALVe starts hiring people again and it's all TF2 players.
Thats why I dont think this game will see the light of day. Beta testing the hell of the game is pretty normal practicd at valve. That doesnt mean that this wont be scrapped.
yeah! unlike a publicly traded company that has to maximise shareholder profit, Valve is allowed to do literally anything they want to do as long as they don't go bankrupt, which is guaranteed to basically never happen given the amount of money they make from Steam. furthermore, a controlling share of the company is owned by Gabe Newell - ie. the man who was in charge of the company when it was a small studio making the original Half Life. I don't understand why an artist, who has uncontested control of a private company, which already has a massive and stable stream of revenue, wouldn't be more interested in using those resources to create things people enjoy
@@Rusty_SpyThe solution? Start buying on GOG only or even Epic
Mixing overwatch and dota alone is like mixing monster energy and guiness
The Gonster
Why can't valve understand this after seeing the disaster of overwatch 2?
Except the Gonster is actually not that bad
@@patafian it's gonna get infested with bots just like valves other games.
More like mixing trash with garbage 💀
Seeing Valve and Bungie rot into zombified shells of their former selves in real time is very depressing
how good was valve if having two of their decade+ old games in the top 2 of steam's most played is being "zombified shells of their former selves"?
I wouldn't put Valve and Bungie into the same category lmao.
Valve is doing fine for themselves, even if they make games that you might not enjoy. Bungie, on the other hand...
Yeah, the company that makes more money than facebook is a zombie, suuuuure
Not even zombified shells man, they died, rotted away, got dug back up and were revived in a SATANIC RITUAL.
@@elfascisto6549 are you confusing making money with making good games?
Yeah, pretty funny coming back to this video after actually playing Deadlock
is it funny
no, he was right, its an atrocious amalgamation of esport titles and its vile. The fact you guys accept this is 100x more of an indictment of YOU than it is him.
@personman5156 There is no real critique here, just a bunch of subjective buzzwords.
Before you start telling other people what to like and not like, try putting real thought into your takes.
@@personman5156 Sorry, can you say that louder?
@@personman5156 2 weeks with more than 100k players, and is in pre-alpha
Valve is in the cars 2 era
No, they're in the current pixar era
cars 2 was at least cool in theory. this is more like planes era.
Kachowski
lol they would never go full cars 3 for brand reasons.
Cars 2 doesn't deserve this slander 😭😭
The thing about Valve was that they released a game only when they had a technological break through as a foundational reason to. Half Life 1 was about the transition to fully 3D environments, Half Life 2 was about the debut of in-game physics simulations, Half Lify Alyx was an attempt to explore VR gaming. The problem is that they became so profitable as a games distributor that I think it took focus away from pushing technological game advancements and then because of the massive release cycle, people quit or retired and eventually all those people deeply passionate about games got cycled out for people who were more geared towards game distribution and with that Value lost the ability to make the iconic games they used too.
Transition to fully 3D environment was done in Quake though, 2 years before Half-Life.
thats why that part of technological breakthough are now geared towards their hardware division. their lack of hierarchy except for gabens final word and its hands-free approach to development where one dev could spend its time at Valve only working on prototypes that will never be released its also a problem that doomed released games unless two or more devs are interested on maintaing or fixing a game (like it happened with HL1 25th anniversary update).
Not exactly. Like, you're correct with those specific examples, but sometimes it was more about a good game design concept as much as it was about tech. Like, Left 4 Dead WAS about the "Director AI" or whatever, automatically tuning and subtlely altering a map's enemy and item distribution to better tune the experience, but it was ALSO just about creating an interesting game design dynamic of a cooperative episodic *narratively focused* online shooter, which hadn't really been done before.
Portal was about the portal tech, which had been done before, but not so flexibly (in Prey specifically), but it was ALSO about telling a funny story and trying to make an FPS without it being about the "S" so much, since you weren't shooting all your problems away (or at least not directly).
These were games where the tech shift was minor, but the game design shift was actually much more novel and interesting. So Valve needed to have at least SOME kind of "big new idea" at the core of the game for them to find it interesting enough to make, but it wasn't *necessarily* just a tech based idea.
People forget valve only makes tech demos
@@fantastikboom1094 Half lifes break through was in the innovative approach to story telling, where most other games where just gimmicky arena shooters with barely any story.
“I came in at the end.
The best is over.” - Tony Soprano
just when i thought i was out.... they pull me back in.... to this....
how much more betrayal can the TF2 community take??
@@tadeojablonski105Valve was seen developing a 5v5 hero shoota…
You’re leaving out the best part.
They put quirky overwatch style characters in it
@@tadeojablonski105it feels like i been stabbed in the haath
-Paulie “Walnuts” Gialtieri
Calling the one studio who is able to actually effectively balance competitive games for 20+ years a bunch of 4 year olds for fusing different competitive games together is true insanity.
If youre a big valve fan you should consider playing their other multiplayer games even if its just to get a subjective understanding of how good valve are at game design and balance.
i played it and he's totally right, deadlock is trash
@@or6060 150k people seem to like it. Maybe it's just not for you. It'a a lot harder then TF2 is.
@@defaultface7273 sounds like you aren't particularly good at either game
@@or6060so? Who cares about being good at the game when the games fun?
@@leugim8435 it isn't. and he's the one making claims about difficulty
3 months later. Deadlock already has twice TF2's active players, despite it being limited access with zero advertising AND only letting regions play in specific time frames.
This aged like milk.
its called hype
@@DaBigBoo_ "it's just hype bro it'll die in 2 months trust"
@@ruzgar1372It will
@@ChineseGlobalismno
Nice cope Bootleg Paladins wait 3 months and it would be infected by bots and become unplayable
I I would dance on it's grave I want TF2, Half life
tbh the early leaked footage looked quite bad, but Valve did actually cook with Deadlock. It has amazing mechanics and the gameplay is well thought out
Who would have guessed that a game that wasn't even announced yet wasn't good 🙄
"So many more exciting products" _shows Valorant clip_
lmao i was looking for this
To be very clear, this game is dota 2 but with fully realized shooting and action mechanics. Imagine what dota 2 looks like from your characters perspective, minus fog of war. It handles the issue of “auto attack range” as weapon falloff and combines the currency and exp mechanics into one. You leverage your knowledge and fps mechanics in the early game to out lane your opponent and build an advantage. In the late game you participate in chaotic team fights and fast map traversal to secure objectives as a team. Also the item system is open ended, you’re not buying stat sticks most of the time. It can be fun, but runs into similar issues as dota 2, not new player friendly and can have long game times.
Dota always had strategic layer from warcraft 3 roots but would it be fun in fp shooter? Main OW problem was forced meta that made it impossible to play solo like in tf2. Casual low to mid Dota is fine but at high level everyone plays busted heroes of the patch and it always recommended to play at least with one friend, solo Dota sucks ass
i disagree, id say deadlock is SUPER new player friendly, especially if they have mild familiarity with mobas. the entry barrier is low but the skill ceiling is high.
No way, an actually well articulated comment that accounts for both the pros and cons of the game from someone that actually played it??
This comment is in very stark contrast to the rest of this noise.
@@dr.cheeze5382I second this, if only every youtube comment was like OP's
>overwatch 2.2
you even played deadlock? let alone dota?
no lol of course he hasn't, this video just amounts to "I get bad vibes from this idea so therefore it's bad and terrible and actually the worst thing ever made"
Of course not lol. Not gonna lie I was in the same camp as this dude until I played it. Now i am completely hooked.
@@linhza501 difference is you're awesome which i can confidently say because of your pfp
The little overly excited dragon creature in artefact is the least valve thing ive ever seen. They keep talking about wanting to be blizzard.
Valve had rivalry with Blizzard and Epic Games on multiple layers.
Dota 2 vs DotA/HotS
TF2 vs Overwatch
Half Life vs Unreal
Steam vs Epic Games Store
Each of the three influenced eachother greatly.
There's also id's influence because Gabe worked on porting Doom to Windows. Later Half Life also fought with Quake 2/3.
Also what's important is an idea of "Ship of Theseus". These companies are no longer what they used to be despite calling themselves the same name.
Absolute, Certified, Distilled, COPE
This video aged like certified trash
Well that's kinda what happens when you deicide to appeal to doomers and Emp is guilty of this in alot of his videos. Everything has to be the worst thing ever no matter what
Sadly Deadlock is abysmal dogshit.
@@76l24 considering the amount of dislikes this video has been getting recently. Looks like you're alone on that one
@@76l24 higher player count than tf2 and its not even completely public
Strange metric for flavor of the month but whateves
It's sad that Valve is following trends instead of setting them.
i aint exactly an expert but deadlock look way better then overcrap will ever be even gameplay wise
@@speemus6223 that doesn't mean much
@@speemus6223 Does it really or are you just following the bandwagon of shitting on Overwatch over-zealously. I dont even like Overwatch i dont play it and dont like it but i dont see how people are saying this game looks better
@@jebreggie4225 Considering the fact that Deadlock is fundamentaly a moba and not a "hero shooter", I'd say he's somewhat right.
@@jebreggie4225 im not jumping on any bandwagon, i didnt even know people hate overwatch zealously, thought its only LoL and valorant
I was feeling down, and then I saw a new downward diary was posted and the downward spiral sucked me in. Now I'm still heading downwards, but I'm upside down now.
A game made for everyone is a game for no one.
same for youtube channels, being bland doesn't make things popular, it has to pop, to have cool colors and ideas, and to be consistent
While that's true, I feel like a shooter mixed with DOTA elements is pretty far from made for everyone. It surely doesn't sound appealing to me lol
Yeah, mixing genres is always a terrible idea! For example, RPGs and literally any fun active combat mechanics CANNOT MIX
@@hahasamian8010 Actually, they can, A LOT, that's like, the whole basis of the western rpg genre
@@minestar2247 That's the point. I'm being sarcastic. Some of the best games out there are combinations of genres but this video acts like that indicates no real vision.
This has aged like fecal matter in spoiled milk
Ahahaha
That's nasty
Thats some cope dude. The game is jank and too niche, not a good formula.
@@ricardoricardoricardoricardo best Moba shooter bar none, and im not a moba kinda guy
Yeah this video is just SAD
It feels like every game studio has the same devs and staff.
The utter death of inspiration and vision in the gaming industry needs to be studied.
Market oversaturation and derivative content plays a large role in that. Well, also the fact that most of these games are merely vessels for microtransaction/lootbox/virtual economies. They have it down to a science what kind of shit people are willing to put up with/the bare minimum they have to do to make money. Creativity isn't really the point of these.
the consumerbase is rotten.
millennials entered the work force as game devs. hence the horrible lawbreaker/hyenas/concord character design and purplepinkneon colors.
@@johnsmith-dx2ql Devs arent the problem, they have passion, the execs are at fault.
@@Bread-nx9fo clearly they dont have passion for good character designs
Been an avid TF2 fan for the past 15 years but this is one of the reasons im usually embarrassed to admit im even part of the community sometimes. It's always been one sided rivalries with games that are completely different genres
The game is twice as old now as fucking StarCraft 1 was when tf2 released holy shit I cannot begin to imagine the walking olfactory warning coming off of fucking tf2 diehards that can’t move on
@@ethanalspencer7294 Idk why some TF2 fans are just obsessed with this game. I love it but you gotta learn to move on.
Deadlock also slaps and peaked 171k players recently lol
@@melonelon7590 Emp explained this in the video after this one, but it's because no other game plays quite like TF2 (partially thanks to the modern games as a service model) and also video games aren't supposed to become unplayable just because of age. Some people are just comfortable with one video game and that's perfectly fine.
this whole video can be resumed to "this game doesn't cater to ME! GRRRRRR", idc that it's old, the whole vibe is rancid bro
As much as I love TF2, this whole video just irks me in a way that reminds me of why I hate a lot of the fanbase.
i wonder if he'll revisit this
pretty much yeah. All of the players forgot that its due to the valve structure that they have their old ass games in the first place. Its due to their nature of letting the employee work on whatever they want. You can get mad at them all you want, but valve will do whatever they want.
@@massburgers1337 This is what happens when your brain is full of buzzwords, no room for actual thought. If i throw a complete noob into tf2 and let them play soldier or heavy, they could probably get a couple kills. That's instant gratification. It's difficult to kill in Deadlock, you need patience and strategy, an understanding of the game systems, just to basic shit. Stop making arguments before you've even played or seen what the game is like. It's so far removed from overwatch that I know you're bullshitting.
@@massburgers1337womp womp
might as well delete this shit now lmao
why, the game is still shit
@@just_le
@@just_le more player even on alpha test (that invite only to play the game) than tf 2 and 142,693 players playing the game rn XDD
@@weplaygameforwin9326just shows you will all eat up the goyslop.
@@just_le of course it is because its on alpha test.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Deadlock has hackers Week 1. Since VAC is such a joke.
actually there's some rumors that the closed beta already has cheaters.
@@idkwhattotype511it was confirmed
@@idkwhattotype511Please say sike.
@@hapyjoy82 nah I'm being dead serious.
Going to be honest, I’ve never seen a time where VAC actually did it’s job right.
They were hoping this game would replace TF2. They want to just scrap TF2
Noting can replace TF2. But Valve is really trying to sweep it under the rug but always comes back.
That's what I thought too😢
lmao what does that even mean? Replacement in what way? They dont give a single crap about tf2 and after playing deadlock its very obvious that this game has absolutely nothing to do with it. Though tf2 is influential, insufferable tf2 fans overstate that and think that its on everyones minds 24/7, but its really not..
This game has very little to do with TF2... This comment is a circlejerk within a video that is a circlejerk ("I watched 1 video..."). Deadlock is a moba.
@@stormer7502 yeah
Never thought I’d see Battleborn get a sequel and that Valve got the rights to make it
I was thinking the whole time while watching this, "this is just Battleborn"
@@izzyj.1079 It's literally nothing like Battleborn.
It's 10x better than Battleborn and I liked that game.
@@ClemsonASC BattleReBorn
Its like if Battleborn and Dota had a baby and its honestly really fucking good.
As someone said - Valve has corporate ADHD.
They are unable to keep taking care of their games for the long run (like TF2). They constantly make projects that they won't finish (infamously: Episode 3)
And obviously the one garbage project that requires the least attention from them - Deadlock, is the one they're focusing on.
episode 3 AND half life 3 too, how many times have they tried it
@@me67galaxylife there have been like 30 attempts at making HL(E)3
The issue is, they have a work ethic that lets employees work on something else if they want to
@@bow-89 you sure? if that was the case deadlock would be understaffed
@@minestar2247 It's why personally I think that deadlock at the very least has people who want to work on it there, and that at it's core it will probably be pretty good for what it is. Unfortunately, it's going to die because of a lack of support.
@@bow-89 No, the problem is that the "higher-ups" (veterans) don't want you to work on something that they're not interested in. As such, if you don't want your pay to get cut, or get fired altogether, towards the end of the year when it's time to get rated, everyone leaves "unimportant projects"
"Why are you shitting on my plate?"
"How do you know it's shit? It isn't even out yet!"
this man doesnt even play dota or cs, 2 of valve biggest games. he's just a hater
@@its_radit Just because he doesn't play a couple of their popular games doesn't mean he's a hater. I don't play CS or Dota either, but that's because they aren't games that appeal to me. I'm not a fan of tactical shooters, and, while I've not played one, I've never been a fan of the concept of MOBAs. I still love their other games though, and can appreciate what Valve has done to innovate in the industry.
I'm in the Alpha the game is great.
this is definitely one of the dumbest analogies I've ever heard
@@its_radit Yeah because they're both boring garbage. CS is the most overrated game series in the fucking world.
The Top comments not only aged badly but are just plan false. I'll explain.
(The Devs that made Valve classic games are gone)
This is incorrect just by doing basic research and looking at the Half-Life Alyx credits. The Lead designers of Half-Life, TF2, Portal, and Dota 2 are still at Valve but most of them have gotten a senior role.
- Robin Walker (Creator of TF2) - Project Lead HL:Alyx and the rumoued HL:X
- Eric Smith (Writer of Portal & L4D2 & TF2 Comics) - Wrote for HL:Alyx and currently writing for Deadlock
- Greg Coomer (Level Designer at every Half-Life game) - Still at Valve working.
There is still so much more but I made my point. Valve is Valve and the Gaming sphere is the one that changed the most.
(Valve is a Lazy)
- Half-Life: Alyx: Immersive VR storytelling and innovative gameplay.
- Counter-Strike 2: Major updates to the CS:GO .
- Steam Deck: Powerful portable gaming console with a wide range of compatible games.
- SteamVR: Immersive VR experiences for PC gamers.
- Steam Labs: Experimental features and technologies for Steam.
- Linux support: Expands gaming market and provides more choices for gamers.
- Steam: Made Steam family and Steam Record.
Just because Valve doesn't work on TF2 doesn't mean they're lazy, They just don't care about your game anymore.
(Valve don't make games anymore)
Valve still makes games but at a slower pace. This is simply because games take much longer when developing.
- Starfield(6 years)
- Baldurs Gate 3 (7 years)
- Wukong (5-6 years)
and many many more.
Valve is still mostly the same especially compared to other fallen companies like Blizzard, Bungie. Please don't let the TF2 community gaslit you into thinking otherwise.
He is also straight up lying when he talks about writers : he says that Wolpaw has left Valve in 2017 BUT on the screenshot we can literally see "in January 2019 he returned"
its undeniable that valve makes games at a slower pace than most companies. a friend who works in the industry once told me that valve's building in washington "feels like a retirement home for developers".
now, whatever you think about that, i feel like there should be some sort of balance between letting devs work at their own pace and having actual deadlines. on one hand devs shouldn't just do whatever they want until they lose interest, but on the other, a lot of companies today just crunch their staff and throw them out like trash, which isn't nearly as addressed as it should be.
This an actual point, thank you for your effort.
For my own sceptism, Valve being lazy is in for a game they care to benefit from they should care about it, they Should've put in the effort to work on it and keep it managed, the Bot crisis shouldn't have lasted aslong as it did.
Writers, from what I've personally learned from Runeterra in leauge of legends and ALOT of character design they vary on control, the amount the exevutives allow them to for profit and such.
Though to be fair valve has the issue of letting the staff not complete the projects they were work because of the human will to want convience over dicipline, so this may be the few times it works in allowing the writer to write.
Still though I'm somehat of an obsever and my points are mainly built on information understood, i'm more confident in the Lazy part because it doesn't matter how much theorical work you do somewhere else, for something you benefit highly from refusing to assit there is LAZY, you either Cut it off or Keep building it up, espically when it suriving for so long shows pointential that should be rewarded.
The others not enough research.
Wish Emplemon sees your comment it has actual weight and brings a counter argument to his, points I can't easily boggle down to ingorance or Emotional Defensiveness.
He should pin it to be a Checklist to Challenge each piece to see something he may have missed or make his point stronger.
Like the comment, but I don't agree with the tf2 stuff. Yes, a vocal part of the community is coping, but the game still has a massive community and deserves some updates, even just to upgrade the cheat detection and nothing else.
Also I've played deadlock and it's great.
@@dr.cheeze5382 Yeah, I got heated. This guy was trying to sabotage a game Valve has been working on for 6+ years with so much misinformation and lies.
Well this video looks awful now. This is one of the best multiplayer games I've ever played lol.
Of course its best for you because you only played fnaf
Not even out yet. Let's see how long it lasts before it becomes awful meta-restricting slog.
It will get old really quick. It's awful
@@absolutezerochill2700 If they balance it like dota then that wont happen
@@RetroDsk wdym dota is like the biggest meta depended game ever
Valve unfortunately got the "Too comfy to do their job" disease, just like Rockstar
What? Rockstar released arguably the largest game ever only a few years ago with Red Dead 2 and they currently have a full team working on what's looking to be most ambitious game ever with GTA 6. They're a studio that actually keep pushing the boundaries of what's possible in video games, something Valve hasn't attempted in years bar Alyx.
@@oldyearstillme I agree, due to the state of triple a games. I'd rather wait longer.
rockstar is taking longer than usual because they used to crunch their employees
@@oldyearstillme Lmao, they abandoned Red Dead Online. The RDO community did the same exact thing as the TF2 community did and Rockstar still didn't care. TF2 is going down the same path.
thats not true at all, rockstar just makes games that are absolutely colossal
Used to think
“I’m glad part of my money goes to Valve when i buy anything on steam”
Now that same idea disgusts me
Ehh Id rather it go to them than pretty much any of the other big gaming companies. While when it comes to making games valve has rly dropped off by letting their older titles pretty much rot. But on the other hand the people at valve working on steam deck and linux i think are doing outstanding work without them i wouldn’t be able to play like 90% of the gamess i play and allows me to pretty much ditch windows and not deal with all of Microsofts BS
I stopped buying games through steam years ago. you can 90% of the time get them cheaper elsewhere, and your money doesnt go to this rotting, dead company that doesnt care about you or the games they abandoned.
At least it isn't Ubisoft or EA
it's not just a small part of the money
it starts at 30%, then once a game makes TEN MILLION it goes down a whole 5% to 25%
@@selectionnWho? Epic? Microsoft? hahahahhaha
Dont worry guys its a closed alpha!!! (Its actually a late beta)
(Its actually more or less ready to be launched, but its being delayed for investor call purposes)
Edit: Holy absolute fuck the Redditards are at my throat over this. I made a joke. Take the fart neutralizer out your ass and laugh for once, jeez. You guys are the reason why TF2 got abandoned.
@@_Devil valve is a privately owned company thus does not have to answer to investors
Valve has so much money that it went to their heads
@@_Devil where the fuck did you get this idea from lol
@@swagmaster9eleven people just be making shit up
This is why you dont hate too early
The lanes of dota the toxic community of cs and dota the flashy over the top effects of overwatch and the bot problem of tf2 all mixed together in one game sounds like hell.
They regret neglecting there other games once this dumpster fire starts.
And then VALVe goes full Thanos and says: "finally, i have them all"
If the rumors are true, then Deadlock seems like the Infinity Gauntlet of "Awful video game aspects"
@@davisdf3064 at least it's gonna be a big case study for bad game design
@@davisdf3064 Lets think of it this way, they could have better maintened there ips or used a few moba style class roles in a otherwise tf2 esc game but instead they made this, Valve lost there way and this game is the final proof to remove all doubt.
@@minestar2247 A case study of how not to add moba inspired mechnics to shooter games, well there is right way to that grafting togather conflicting elements isn't it.
I'm in a fickle spot with Deadlock.
On one hand, when Valve actually finishes a product, it is clearly something they are passionate about enough to cross the finish line. Due to their unconventional structure, they only give attention to something they are internally enjoying. So I'm happy to see anything they do, and what breakthroughs they felt they uncovered to warrant a release. Even if it isn't for me, I want to see the effort.
On the other hand, the precedent they have set on their own games alone is horrific. As many have seen, Team Fortress 2 is absolutely suffering while still receiving community content and official server support. That should fall under false advertising in my opinion to willingly keep up a broken product with everyone making it public how broken it is. Counter-Strike 2 had its own well documented cheater wave which I think is being tackled, but I don't know everything. So it's clear the PvP market is suffering enough from cheaters alone, so that ends any hype I would have for Deadlock. And Valve makes it clear that they don't have any remorse for abandoning their games, let alone simply communicating that they want to abandon something. I'd feel so much closure if they just said they were done with TF2 and dropped it, instead of keeping it up to be exploited, but that's just me.
As Emp discussed, I don't think I'm the target audience for whatever Deadlock is going for, it sounds alien to me. I am not sure who the target audience actually is. Though I am excited to see the reception, positive or negative, moreso than the actual game. I want to see how the room reads it, but I don't think I'll support it. I wish their priorities were elsewhere.
I wish them the best, but I'll only tune in from afar.
"when Valve actually finishes a product" I'm gonna have to stop you right there. I'm Joking.
But doesn't it seem like Valve fears closing out the stories they create?
I don't expect Deadlock to have a huge marketing campaign like Valve's major titles of the past. Valve making forgettable projects isn't really anything new. It all starts with Ricochet, then Day of Defeat, Alien Swarm (actually a banger, deserves a sequel), VR stuff, and of course Artifact. I'd even add Dota 2 despite it's popularity, since it's so far off from what they're known for.
I see this more as Icefrog's game than Valve's, and I think they do too. So when they go about revealing and advertising this game, they should probably avoid trying to hype it up and release it low-key. Like Alien Swarm, it could basically say "we developed this game to test out our new hires capabilities" in the first line of the description.
@@DukeOfGumby there is Alien Swarm Redactive Drop from what i remember and it even has workshop suport too
Based off of the precedent Valve has set, TF2 will receive whatever CS2 receives after an extended period of time, as long as the playerbase exists. For example, V-Script and 64bit support was recently (in TF2 terms) added. Perhaps CS2's AI-powered anti cheat that they're working on will bleed into TF2, and that's why they haven't addressed it. But to let the game rot with zero word on the future of the game isn't right, even if the game WAS playable on official servers.
Deadlock had impromptu design change.
It's nowhere near finished and it'll be a slow disaster
The cherry on top btw is that early concepts had this in the half-life universe so I could have at least been aesthetically appealing
I NEED MY GAMES TO LOOK LIKE DIRT FOR THEM TO BE AESTHETICIALLY PLEASING
@@augustine6683 And do you need shit hot takes to stand out ?
@@augustine6683 Well at least just Half-Life. It's dirty but it has an air of cartooniness to it. It tried to be as grounded and realistic as it could be on the tech available and that produced an ugly but extremely lovable and memorable style. It doesn't look like TLoU or CoD, it despite mainly aiming for realism is recognizable as Half-Life and not just Realistic. It's like Breaking Bad. Despite being grungy and realistic and shot in a very similar way to a lot of other gritty TV Drama's, not only does Breaking Bad have some admittedly goofy moments you don't immediately notice because of how well the story gets you engaged, but also iconic visual motifs like the New Mexico filter. Unrealistic isn't always stylish and realistic isn't always styleless. Half-Life's style isn't just "Realistic", it's Dirty and Grimy on each individual piece in a shot but clean and readable as a whole, grounding but engaging, like it's a movie and runs on movie logic as well as game logic. Counter-Strike shares ancestry with the Half-Life series and so a Half-Life dedicated PVP Game rather than just a Deathmatch mode would probably look similar but with Half-Life's unique stylings, mainly in the clothing, weapons, and the unique apocalyptic urban environments you could fight in, or the sprawling rural areas as shown in Half-Life 2: Episode 2. Not to mention the creature designs. It would've been nice to visit the Half-Life universe again and have a Half-Life experience and a big part of that is the realistic and grimy but clean and readable cinematic Half-Life visual style.
I agree the half life aesthetic is washed out but looking like a neon puke bomb is not any better, those screenshots are NOT readable @@augustine6683
The game IS aesthetically pleasing
TF2 players take your meds please. If you believe your opinion is of value, feel free to double the dosage
huff copium some more, moba trash
@@DaBigBoo_ L hater
The way I described Deadlock in a conversation is that it's a Hero Shooter trend chaser by the company that invented the genre. It's absolutely delusional to create a new IP based on a genre that you invented instead of using the IP you already have.
It kinda reminds me of the 343i-era Halo titles. Halo basically invented the modern console FPS, standardizing many things now taken for granted (2 weapon limits, regenerating health, grenades/melee being a "hotkey" rather than a separate weapon you need to swap to, aim assist/magnetism, etc.), to a generic trend-chaser trying to do whatever's popular at the time. (Halo 4 tried to copy COD which was at it's peak at the time, Halo 5 tried to copy Titanfall which was at it's peak at the time, Halo: Infinite tried to copy the generic Ubisoft open-world slop which was at it's peak at the time, etc.)
Halo at least has the excuse of the rights being given to a new company that was, by their own admission and in their own words, consisting of "people who hated Halo".
valve the company that has been praised for its originality and constant new IPs for decades is now being bashed for not just reusing the same old IP's and doing nothing new?
would you rather valve made a cashgrab with an old IP because they know it would get lots of money instantly just because its a beloved IP like every other game developer does??
"It's absolutely delusional to create a new IP"
...
@@FantasmaNaranja "old thing good, new thing bad #fixoldthing"
@@elfascisto6549 never new thing me hate new thing
10:52 "You're trying to sell me this game being like tf2, class based shooter, and you're putting in lanes? how disgusting"
Nobody is trying to sell you the game being like anything. It's an invite by friend only play test. The game has hardly been acknowledged by Valve outside of a bare-bones public Steam store that just says "Deadlock is a multiplayer game in early development."
Exactly, it's never even been stated to be a classed based shooter! Why should they cater to his false assumptions, it's a moba, let them make their moba.
Rants about valves new title that is still in development
hasn't played the beta
bases nearly all opinions on 4 screenshots and a couple clips of someone playing the tutorial with no other players
mentions only valves failures the past few years
likely intentionally doesn't mention half-life: alyx
likely intentionally doesn't mention aperture desk job
doesn't mention how much longer they already supported tf2 than any other AAA dev
mentions Erik wolpaw leaving (he's been back at valve since hla) conveniently barely hiding the text that says he returned at 20:53
same exact thing for jay pinkerton
many such cases.
I agree. Though I personally still cannot say that Valve have been good as a company for the past decade. Because they mostly either made pretty good games for the hardware that is only available for rich people (both VR and Steam Deck), or they simply focused on profit from Steam and microtransactions in multiplayer games. Like, the only games that most people can afford are CS2, Dota 2, TF2 (now its hardly playable because of the bots), and the singleplayer games that were released in 1998-2011!
It would be great if they would also make some more singleplayer games for PC and/or consoles. But for now it doesn't seem like an options in the near future.
Yeah this video sucks. I don't get the point of making a video of just being "hey here's what this guy said and I'm angry"
Like I get it, I wanna get on the hate valve bandwagon too but like... this ain't it.
I have a problem with your TF2 point, Valve absolutely deserves all the condemnation they’ve gotten over their terrible handling of a bot crisis in a game that they still pump new paid content into even though they are unwilling to properly maintain their own servers.
Also WoW has been supported by Blizzard for longer so that point about Valve supporting TF2 longer than any other AAA game is incorrect, other games will also soon surpass or have already surpassed TF2 in how long they’ve been fully supported by their devs (remember TF2 had significant Valve development from around 2007-2017) games like World of Tanks and even Fortnite are getting close to or have already surpassed TF2’s active development so Valve deserves no praise there
@@thepulle4722 Yeah, It's amazing people bring up how long Valve supported TR2 when WOW exists?
"Half Life Alyx and Aperture Desk Job" A game most people didn't play either because they couldn't afford to, or didn't want buy a vr headset for 1 game, and a 5 minute tech demo. Also why shouldn't Valve maintain TF2 AND CSGO when they still make money off them?
I don’t think people know this video was posted months before valve allowed it to be publicly talked about.
Meaning he purposely tried to sabotage deadlock because his butthurt Valve isn’t updating a 13+ years old game. The sad state of this fool.
Scepticism is the healthy choice at this point. Not despair or "nihilism" but just general caution with things based on recent trends. If it ends up being good then you are pleasently surprised. If not then its smug satisfaction.
This game is almost exactly like supermonday night combat but updated for modern times. This guy has nevwr played the game obviously and the people saying it is anything like over watch or counter strike could not be more wrong
Valve just forgot that what makes their games unique is the fact that they are simple to understand, simple to play and to watch. Creating a new thing because some new genres are poppin up is not the right thing to do.
Im sorry but neither hero shooters or moba's are pooping off
Valve has gone from setting trends to following them religiously
Dota is not really simple to play or watch
Bro has never played dota
@@aregulargenericname8794 minor spelling mistakes
i win
I have not heard such uninformed and emotionally charged whinging for a while now. Good job!
you guys are genuinely pathetic if this game is acceptable to you
@@personman5156 "old man yells at cloud"
@@personman5156 we wouldn't accept it if it's the finished game. But it's still in alpha
@@personman5156 Game has 100k players playing while TF2 has 17-21k real players. your on the fringe minority.
@@MrDanielcool13 if you don't understand the discussion don't join in
It feels like this leak really couldn't have come at a worse time. All this renewed interest in revitalizing TF2 and word spreading about just how bad of a state that game is in, coinciding with the revelation that Valve is wasting their time on... This...
And on top of all of that, a time when 99% of these online games coming out are dying in their first month (Worms Rumble, Nick All Star Brawl, Headbangers Rhythm Royale, etc). So many of the companies making these games would do ANYTHING for the loyal fanbase TF2 and CS had, but they just remain ignored.
Good point. Really shows a lack of appreciation on Valves part...
Deadlock is good though.
Roflmao… TF2 is well past its prime. It has very little room to grow in this day and age. Deadlock already has more players in alpha and is being praised by people from different gaming communities.
@@thevannmann tf2 could still easily pull another 10 years just from community content alone.
Also deadlock is good. I have played it,
So tldr: deadlock good, tf2 deserves better.
Emp’s saga of despising everything he once loved continues!
Damn this aged like milk lmao deadlock is SO popular right now
It's crazy that people get upset about a game they've not played or have any detailed info other than baseline stuff 💀💀
It's so nasty to see how they treat tf2 so they can focus on making trash
And also neglecting games like CS2 with rampant cheater problems and L4D2 with the DDoS attacks
@@iriswav7379That why I only play single player in left 4 dead 2
@@Shinigintz same, hopefully Valve gets their shit together
Fix needs to fix/keep updating the games that literally got them where they are, if they weren't so devoid of seeing what the people want then we would have like 5 new games by now
Yeah, our FixTF2 campaign is honestly a little too focused. I think what we’re looking at is a FixValve issue.
did he ever address how wrong this video was lol
The game isn't even out and you haven't even played the beta..... What is this? Pyrolive?
and look its not good its basicly a shiny new toy that will go away in a month or so
@@domicci4460its… in pre-alpha. And i’m already having a blast compared to other games.
@@domicci4460 Seems fun, I will probably try on release. For what we've seen from the game looks way better now.
@Seus-s I have tried it and if theyxdont fix alot of the problems and add a real anti cheat the game will die fast like csgo2 did and how tf2 has been left to rot with cheating still being a problem
@@domicci4460 I don't follow this narrative that a game should be judged this early as a finished product. Ofc there's still things to patch but is still early access and has a very good concurrent amount of people testing it out.
Don't comment often, and I doubt you'll see this, but had a few thoughts.
Gotta say, this was pretty rough to watch, and I know that I shouldn't be expecting balanced and even-keeled commentary from Downward Diary but this felt particularly overly cynical. Even if you acknowledge that it's a "totally unfair and unreasonable rant," that doesn't really justify complaining about your assumptions about a game that you admit you haven't tried and the only real source of information at the time was just leaked screencaps and people describing it. Acknowledging that you are shooting yourself in the foot doesn't make it any less dumb.
However, I do think that this gets at a few interesting trends that are becoming problematic for the games industry as a whole. Primarily, the dominance of comparison in how we describe new games.
I don't know when exactly this started, but every new game that comes out seems to be described as "like X but Y" or the "X of the Y genre." There are times where I think these comparisons are helpful, but more often than not these comparisons feel forced and actually obfuscate how it really feels to play a certain game. Sure, saying "Valorant is Riot's Counter-Strike" is actually a pretty fair statement, but that only really holds because of how similar the core gameplay of those two games are. Most of these comparisons just junk up discourse about two games in the same genre.
The most obvious example for me is the constant comparison of TF2 and OW. Sure, the games are similar on the surface level (i.e. both team shooters with similar objective systems) but I think the constant comparison hides a lot of the difference in game feel between the two. The gunplay of Team Fortress 2 is much more biased towards precise, single-shot weapons (Scattergun, Rocket Launcher, etc.) w. few rapid-fire options (Heavy being the notable exception) where as OW's gunplay has a mix of precise hitscan and tracking favored weapons. There are also a lot more resource management elements to OW that just... aren't in TF2 for the most part, and the list continues on and on. These constant comparisons make talking about new games a lot harder, though, because it creates a perception of a game that isn't really fair, meaningful, or rooted in how the game feels to play.
This comparison problem is super evident in how Deadlock was described by people who played it as being this blend of TF2, DOTA, OW, and CS. Having played it, I really don't think that this is a good description of how the game feels. TF2 is only really being thrown in there due to being the other "Valve Class-based Shooter" - the gunplay is nothing alike, the TTK is nothing alike, and the objective system is totally divorced. Same with CS - I think people only bring it up because it's another Valve Shooter. Deadlock's gun system is fully hit-scan and tracking-focused, which isn't like the precision-first systems in either TF2 of CS. Hell, it's not like OW in this regard either, because OW puts a lot more emphasis on the diversity of its weapons, whereas many of Deadlock's weapons feel very same-y. As mentioned in other comments, the most direct comparison is probably to Smite, but I would just call Deadlock a Third-Person MOBA.
The issue with comparisons, outside from just being misleading and often plain wrong, is that when we always describe new games as being like old games, new games are always going to feel derivative. And to this point, I think you have a great argument - if Deadlock really WAS just a blend of elements from TF2, DOTA, OW, and CS, I think it would feel like a game that lacked a strong identity and would probably just sputter out as it tried to compete with those preexisting PvP games that are already on the market.
Granted, I think Deadlock is far from a perfect game as is - I actually really dislike it. I still think that MOBAs in general kinda suck - as someone without infinite time to sit around and queue up, it really does suck to spend 30 minutes of a 40 minute game knowing that I'm going to lose and being unable to effectively fight other people because my teammate across the map fed into his laner. I think the artstyle looks super bland and forgettable, with this weird choice to go all in on these boring grays and beige tones across the map (when did we forget that the coloration of the map indicating overall position, which worked so well in TF2, should be something that is still used?) that leave it feeling lifeless and disorienting. But comparing it to these pre-existing games isn't a good comparison, and doing so only hides the real issues with Deadlock behind the complaint that it's just going to be derivative and forgettable. And the constant use of comparisons as a crutch for writing good, accurate descriptions belies how low the bar has gotten within the game journalism sphere.
Another interesting point you brought up is how Valve as a company has gotten divorced from the iconic style of games it used to make. It's interesting how many people still expect every Valve game to be the same as the ones made in 2004 - many of those fans are younger than the games in the Orange Box. But I think the movement away from these crafted single-player experiences by Valve and other large companies in the games industry is indicative of another movement, that being the rise of the indie game.
I think the real reason that more and more AAA companies keep sinking money into PvP releases that fizzle out and die is because they know they can't compete with indie games for the single-player space. In fact, I would go so far as to argue that a large majority of the most celebrated single-player games of the last 5 years have been indie games, with AAA companies only trying to compete in areas where they feel like they have a large technical advantage (which leads to most AAA single-player games being large, open-world games in the style of FromSoftware, Ubisoft, CD Projekt Red, or Rockstar). Because the technical barrier to entry for successful PvP games is so high (server infrastructure, netcode, etc.) it's one of the few places where AAA companies aren't actually competing with indie developers for market share, so they can get away with releasing mediocre to bad games year after year as long as people keep buying (see Call of Duty, etc.). While there have been a few breakout games in the space (e.g. BattleBit Remastered offering competition to the poor release of Battlefield 2042) by and large these companies don't have to deal with indie competition in the PvP space.
And it's pretty obvious why these companies don't want to compete in the non-PvP space, because the level of innovation in those spaces is much, much higher than in the PvP space. Hell, even in PvE, the existence of P2P hosting allows for smaller games like Deep Rock Galactic to set the bar for what a live-service game should be in those arenas. So I predict that we'll see more and more large companies doubling down on PvP as the last space where they can really use their large resources to actually make better games, which of course will lead to the cannibalization of the space as all these companies start releasing very similar games (as we've already seen with hero shooters and battle royales).
I think Valve's movement away from single-player experiences like Half-Life and Portal towards games like Artifact and Deadlock are indicative of this ongoing trend - even if Valve's goal isn't to make money, they still want their games to be enjoyed by as many people. I just hope that they realize that the Valve brand is still strong enough to get people interested in anything they release in the single-player space, even if it may not be as technologically groundbreaking as HL1 and HL2 or Portal.
The actual biggest complaint I think I do have with Valve's current games is their continued insistence on leaning on microtransactions and gambling to make money. And yeah, if Deadlock keeps pushing that trend of monetization when it drops, I'll be pretty frustrated as well that the one company who can afford to drop games at a loss because they have the money printer that is Steam is still hyperfixated on maximizing profit and optimizing the fun out of games. But that's not something I can really judge from the closed alpha, because we still have no idea what the monetization model is going to look like. Not expecting much, but maybe we can get a game from an industry leader that can help take modern gaming monetization back in the right direction.
Sorry for the big text block - I'm just really passionate about this topic and think that your rant does bring up a lot of interesting points, even if I think that many of the complaints you have are kinda just knocking down strawmen.
P.S - as a longtime TF2 player, the DD about that was fantastic. Keep it up.
Great comment. I have some things to say about as well.
Yeah now that you mentioned it... this was an EXTREMELY cynical video. Granted, Emplemon is a very cynical person in general, (especially on downward diary) but even by his standards this was brutal. And while I do agree that he didn't really have a good reference point to go off of his feelings on Deadlock, in his slight defense, he didn't really have any other options given how it was only those leaks at first and as of right now, the game is invite only so a lot of people don't have any means of easily accessing deadlock but I agree that Emp should have at least gone off more than what he had.
I agree with the whole game comparisons point completely. It's why I hate people saying "deadlock is a replacement for TF2" or anything like that. Because let's face it, the ONLY thing they have in common are being class based shooters owned by valve.
One thing I want to add is that while the game's reputation has certainly improved, I do think it's fair to explain why a lot of people weren't impressed especially at the start.
Imagine you're a huge fan of Valve's games, you adore Half life, Portal, the older counter strike games, left 4 dead, Team fortress 2, Day of defeat, the like. But after DOTA 2, you slowly start drifting away from valve for a ton of reasons (neglecting every game that wasn't CSGO and DOTA 2, mishandling TF2 and eventually abandoning it, Artifact [I'll get to that one later], and all the monetization) then after so many years of radio silence, they come out with Artifact... a game nobody wanted or asked for, and it made valve look horribly out of touch with what their fanbase wanted. The game's insanely greedy monetization only made things worse, especially after it bombed. Years later, when TF2 is currently going though the bot crisis while Valve refuses to do anything about it, you discovered that this deadlock game is what was taking Valve's time and resources away.
Obviously, I can't speak for everyone but I would be certainly lying if I tried to deny plenty of people, especially after everything I mentioned felt that way, to those on the outside, especially those who were classic valve fans, it really did look like Valve learned nothing from Artifact and it seemed that history would repeat itself.
One thing I want to add that I haven't seen or heard anyone talk about. Mainly, how long will the hype for deadlock last? Sure, despite being invite only, the game is doing Shockley well. And there's definitely people who genuinely enjoy it. But I want to ask the question, will it last? I mean Overwatch was unstoppable during 2016 and 2017, but it fell off HARD. Any number of things can utterly ruin deadlock's legacy, but... for now we'll have to wait and see.
Great read
I hate the neglect of TF2 just as much as Emp does; but it's simply not true that Valve has produced nothing but bad products in recent years: the steam deck was a huge achievement in gaming tech. Deadlock looks okay at least; but it doesn't blow me away, I will have to play it when it releases.
hello i come from the future. it is neither cs, nor tf2, nor ow
to anyone reading the comments, its just a moba shooter, if you dont like mobas you probably wont like it, this guy doesnt like mobas, hes not going to like it, saved you a really painful watching experience
exactly it's a whole lot of yapping for the tl;dw to be "im mad that it's not a sequel to existing IPs"
This guy from the vid could make the same video about dota 2, yapping about.
"Ohhh, valve has cs and tf 2, who would even play dota it's a stupid moba, and all valve fans only love shooting pow pew"
This did not age well, hasn’t even been a year lmao.
The hero shooter genre just fucking blows tbh
Tf2 is the exception to prove the rule
All of them have been underwhelming time draining slop
TF2 is a class-based shooter, hero shooter has more of a connotation of having a set of skills with cooldowns.
@@Pimploaf_YTP alot of classes have consumable weapons on cool downs tho like jarate, sandvich, and ubercharge
@@slamjam7676 That's fair enough, but most of those are secondary additions and aren't essential to the game, vs. a proper hero shooter where (almost) every class has a set of cooldown skills
@@Pimploaf_YTPcooldown skills don't define an entire genre, it's such a broad mechanic that's existed in plenty of other genres long before hero shooters
@@Pimploaf_YTPcooldown skills don't define an entire genre, it's such a broad mechanic that's existed in plenty of other genres long before hero shooters.
This video aged very badly
i played a game, and i can safely say now that this is bullshit
Game's fine, don't project TF2 problems on other valve products.
this is alfa of something big, icefrog is cooking bro
This is guy who complaints that CS2 and DOTA2 doesnt overlap, bruh s4, suma1L etc is global elite in CS. N0tail was grandmaster in overwatch
I like how he compared this game to cs and tf2 but literally the only things it has in common with those games is being a shooter and with tf2 maybe also picking a character and that’s it
@@betabaljeet2969look at the problems with both tf2 and cs, ill give you time to think about it
Video aging like milk within 2 months is crazy
The game literally has double the REAL player count than TF2 is icing on the cake
@@MrDanielcool13because more players means it must be good. The recent cod game has more players than both games, I guess that means it's the best game ever. Your logic is fucked.
@@d0ct0rz3d4no but a lot of people called this dead on arrival and it’s pulling 30k+ while only being playable through invites. I’ve only heard good from people who played it. Imagine when it releases
Played all week anyone who thinks this game will be dead on arrival has no fucking clue what they are talking about this game is competition for games like smite and predecessors this game will definitely have its own audience for years to come And every tf2 dota cry babies need to gtfo here cuz this games was never meant for you or your 17 yr old game just move on already
Some dumb asses just love to talk because they have a mouth. This dude is a clown
The situation is even worse. The entire "Deadlock" IP was almost last minute, as just a month or 2 ago, it was originally "Neon Prime" and was set to be a "cassette-future" sorta aesthetic.
Not to mention the lead dev IceFrog, the main dev for Dota 2, seemingly left the project as he's been working on Dota 2 this whole time.
This game is set to either be the most hilarious failure of all time, or a miracle child for Valve.
To be fair, I've seen one or two older leaked screenshots (released in the recent wave) and it looks just as bad.
Valve employes can chose there what to work on, the are not put on a game they chose to work on it. So Iceforg working on Deadlock, got an idea for Dota and went to work on that game. Sometimes they just stop working on a game.
Maybe they'll never launch... Probably... They have zero reasons to.
uhhh no it was definitely not cassette futurism, idk abt citadel maybe that looked cool but neon prime’s art direction looked like complete a55, overwatch but 1000x more soulless, so glad they changed it. Still looks kinda mid sadly.
@@pufflepersonwhere?
this video did not age well
huff copium some more, moba trash
@@DaBigBoo_L hater
Deadlock will have more concurrent players than tf2 in a few days.
Deadlock already has more real players than tf2. TF2 only has 17-21 real players, the rest are idle bots
It won't last long. Now that people have gotten a chance to play it the hype will die downm
@@d0ct0rz3d4wanna bet?
@@d0ct0rz3d4 The hype will only get bigger from here
@@d0ct0rz3d4 Lmao. The hype is still growing and does not look like its going to stop
Will deadlock be bad? Maybe.
What I don't like is that you say valves recent releases have all been bad and you choose to ignore half life alyx being an incredible game. You do this because it doesn't fit the narrative you wish to portray
One game that’s VR so the overwhelming majority of people can’t and haven’t played it. Everything else has been a disaster.
@@shadow50011 aperture desk, tf2 bot detection (this took long, but it's 15+ years game... original devs are not there anymore. reading a codebase that large is very very very hard)
@@nodge9671 dude they'll be complaining in 2050 that tf2 is not maintained anymore
God forbid a developer to have some life, no no, it should be a forever slave to a single game he doesn't even want to develop anymore
I love deadlock but what a sad existence if I am 60 years old wishing for a deadlock update from icefrog grandson
@@pooshpoosh9232 Not if they actually announce EoL and give the franchise to the community. Part of why people don't trust Valve anymore is their lackluster communication that they had between Blue Moon and the latest hacker ban wave.
It sucks for people like me who have wanted to get into Team Fortress, but are soured on it because of how awful it's neglected. Them owning Team Fortress and choosing to make a new IP instead is insane to me
Saving this video in case of it getting deleted 🙂
I think this one of the cringiest video Emp has made. "This is gonna flop." Top 10 most played game on steam in closed alpha. I wonder if he'll address this or just pretend like it didn't happen.
100k brain rotten individuals playing it means shit lil bro
@@just_le you watch anime every day
@@just_le You moved past cope and reached full on mental delusion.
@@maximany9506 even if i was, what does that have to do with deadlock being complete dogshit?
@@rickdice2444 holy shit bro, you're right, i should be on some sort of prescription because i don't agree with the common denominator
this aged like milk lmao
It only took 5 years for people to realize that Valve are no longer the “good guys” of gaming.
The thing is that despite Valve doing a lot of wrong, they are still the best compared to the likes of Epic, Ubisoft, and EA.
@@NoahWanger theyre lazy piles of shit dont worship any company for barely doing the bare minimum
@@NoahWanger "That's like saying the shit I took last night was better than the shit I took today." - AVGN
@@Dog-999i I will take the lesser of the two evils, thank you.
@@Dog-999i No Gaming AAA company is good, not even Nintendo nor CD Projeckt Red
emp I think this video is going to age badly no matter how good or bad the game ends up being
It has already aged badly. This video and the comments already looked stupid months ago and they look even dumber now.
People when older games get updated: WHEN NEW GAMES????
People when new games get released: OLD GAMES ARE BEING IGNORED
@KitchenGun this is sadly so true
no seriously because people's main complaints here are the bots in tf2, that's since been largely dealt with so what do the deadlock haters have now?
@@KitchenGun are you sure that these arent different people on the internet saying these things
It was three months ago when I watched this video. At first I agreed, "What is valve thinking making a hero shooter like OW, are they stupid?". Thought deadlock was just gonna be a cashcow.
Then I saw leaks of how its played, and I thought "Oh wow the character design is kinda cool, wait it has a shop system!? Thats very interesting"
A month after I stopped playing tf2 because i got burntout. Saw more about deadlock and I thought "ITS A MOBA SHOOTER!?". Being someone whos played plenty of Dota before, my ape brain turned the bulb on and I gave it a shot.
50hours of gaming later and... I love this game. Taking aspects of a standard hero shooter yet adding the kinds of mechanics youd see in a moba and changing it so both styles of gameplay meld well with each other is am amazing idea.
The character design is great(and will be better too since some of the designs arent even final), the setting is great, the movement feels so fun, and aware this game isnt gonna be for everyone, but I think that's a good thing.
I came into this video thinking blindly about fixtf2 and how valve is declining. But then I got out of that phase, Its ashame tf2 wont be getting the attention its fanbase wants. But Deadlock proves that they were actually cooking with this one, and its naysayers like this youtuber in question, should never be bandwagoned upon
In 3 months a lot of things can change. I played tf2 since 2016 and have been playing comp for a few years. Me and my tf2 friends are all ready to hop in the Deadlock train knowing nothing about moba’s like a month ago.
However, I don’t think it’s right to hate on someone for speaking their thoughts because everyone was thinking what EmpLemon was saying 3 months ago. Deadlock’s success is big and I have no doubt I’ll keep playing it but no one knows how things will look like in a year or so.
Playercount went from 8k to 170k+ concurrent players in the span of about 3 weeks, every major streamer/many former pro players of games like ow/valorant have already fully switched to it and creating content for it, there is a 10,000$ tournament happening tomorrow and people will STILL say this game is gonna die, it’s “slop” and a copy of (insert game here). And these people haven’t even played it, that’s the funny part.
Were can i watch the tournament?
@@morclockseven6427 it’s on twitch, hydration and mikaelS are also streaming it and they’re probably the best players in it.
@@morclockseven6427twitch
How’s that intuition feeling now? Hahaha
At least TF2 has the excuse of being a 17 year old game. Valve's most recent title was CS2: a glorified source port of CSGO with barely any new content, and it's probably the most buggy unpolished mess right now, not to mention the game is barely a year old and already has a bot crisis, and Valve has done jack shit to fix it.
could you explain why cs2 is a buggy mess? been playing since beta and I personally believe that the game is actually very polished, I agree with you on the lack of content, not like they haven't already made the content, they just choose to drip feed the content such as maps, game modes etc. and as far as I'm aware with the bot situation, valve really is doing something, they banned roughly 300k bot accounts just last week, there are public stats you can look up.
@@consolegamer1122 There are a million tiny minutiae things that add up which would take forever too list here, but to summarize it: probably one of the biggest issues outside of cheaters/bots right now is just the general gunplay feeling off compared to CSGO, the main reason for this I suspect is the subtick system that Valve was hyping up to the launch of CS2. If you're a casual player this probably won't affect you much, but if your competitive then you understand that ticks are basically everything when it comes to the smoothness of gameplay. One of FaceIt's main selling points is that it hosts 128 tick servers which are double that of Valve's embarrassingly outdated 60 tick servers.
Outside of that, I also find it particularly scummy especially of Valve when they forced CS:GO players to migrate over to CS2 rather than have a natural community segue. It comes off as insecure, like Valve no longer has the confidence they used to when it comes to making sequels to games. Imagine if Valve forced players from L4D1 to move to L4D2, but L4D2 has less content - and is full of new bugs and a substantial lack of polish.
@@spimpsmacker6422 the gunplay feels fine. Subtick at any tickrate (64 on Valve servers btw, you sped) is objectively more precise than traditional tick-based networking. They forced the upgrade to CS2 because of the skin economy and the competitive scene - Left 4 Dead is not a competitive shooter with a tournament scene and complex network of organisations and sponsors. You think like a child
@@acex222 Okay sorry I accidently got the number off by only four digits, I didn't mean to set off your sperg alarm. Secondly no, the subtick system is shit. I don't know what exactly it is within the code that causes it to fuck with the game, but most people will agree that it screws with the gunplay and hit registration too much.
Forcing players to move to a new platform is something Valve has never done with a sequel, they didn't do it with 1.6 and CS:GO, they didn't do it with TFC and TF2, so why is this such an exception? 1.6 tournaments still went on years into CS:GO's early life and both games were completely fine in the end. Skins make even less sense when they're literally just game textures with an arbitrary price value, even if Valve had to update both games simultaneously to keep the economy in balance, I don't think it will kill them to keep up with the task of adding a few pngs to the game.
@@spimpsmacker6422 64 ticks is something anyone who's qualified to have any opinion on tickrate should know - it's a sign you're thick as a brick outhouse. "most people will agree" isn't meaningful, because it goes in the fact of hard facts - it makes hits and misses more precise. Subtick is an improvement over 64 ticks because categorically cannot miss a shot that was going to hit due to tickrate.
"Adding a few PNGs" child with no concept of work detected, opinion dismissed
3 months later and I guess we don't have to worry about "Valve's reputation as a company tank(ing) in a way that has never been seen in their entire existence." 🤣I think your intuition was a bit off.
Crazy how this video aged like milk.
No wonder. He's just bitching about it not being tf2 when it isn't meant to be tf2. There's no point, or take. Dude's just being a diper baby about something he didn't even play
Video aged like milk bruv
it didn't
@@personman5156 it did . only salty tf2 fanboys can accept that Deadlock is good and fun and very addictive game and most of them just sad cuz Valve not doing shit with a 17 yo game
@@horvathgergely6782 tf2 fanboys got brain damage. This game slaps harddddd
(2k hours in tf2 myself)
@@horvathgergely6782 can’t* because* year*
"I want Valve to make games again :D"
*the monkey's paw curls a finger*
“It’s weird to review a game that’s not even out yet!” Proceeds to review the game without even playing the play test? What are we doing here? It has nothing to do with CS, something you could have found out if you played the game lmao. I’m keeping an open mind on this game, the play-test for not even being a beta is pretty well fleshed out. TF2 is gonna die at some point, I loved the game but it’s been well past its prime for years. All things end, get over it. They were going to move on at some point, it’s the way it goes.
This is emp lemon at his best. Speaking from the soap box
I generally agree with this comment, but you need to understand that tf2 is an incredibly unique game. There's just nothing quite like it, so it will continue to live for many more years. That and the community built around it for that reason leads to a self sustaining reaction of not really losing players.
Point is: TF2 deserves to live, but so does deadlock, and valve could definitely do both no problem, especially since it's two different teams that could work on both.
This is one of those rare moments in life where I’m actually glad a video aged poorly.
its aging well, you can't address any of the real points because they're all still coming to pass. You are sub 80 IQ.
@@personman5156 .. Your next sentence is "The source is I made it the fuck up"
They could just... continue TF2 development. Like, the demand for a fixed, regularly updated TF2 is HUGE, they would make INSANE amounts of money in crates and key sales.
TF2 was actually competing against Overwatch 1 AND WINNING back when it was still receiving balance changes and regular updates with new maps and items.
Tf2 is nowhere near as big as you think
@@elfascisto6549 If I see thousands of people talking about it daily for years on end, i think its as popular as I make it out to be.
@@Vanished584 and the player count is piss poor once you account for the assload of (trading) bots. It's, objectively speaking about on par with l4d2. it's no wonder they haven't
spent much effort on it lol.
@@ThePacmandevil Playercount isnt really a good estimate as you pointed out, cause its inflated. Things like the SaveTF2 petition is a good estimate of how relevent TF2 is in current year.
As of me typing this, savetf2 has 267k signatures. Thats just an insane number of people who give a shit about this game.
@@Vanished584 When compensating for bots, it's about l4d2 tier.