Are Youtube photographers real photographers?
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- In this episode, I discuss the difference between “RUclips Photographers” and full-time professional photographers.
I expose some misleading information by RUclips photographers that I hope will be helpful for people interested in pursuing a career in photography of all genres or even those that just want to improve their skills at the craft and art of photography.
This one is a bit juicy, let’s start the debate in the comments section
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Hi Justin, new subscriber here. Only discovered your channel today from a mention you had in a comment on “The Fstops here”channel. I’m a very keen and (very) amateur photographer with no desire to do it for a living. Took up photography 6 years ago when I retired and admit to trawling through hours and hours of RUclips videos doing my research. Spent 5 years in the Sony system before switching to Fuji (Xt3) a month or so back. Over the years and especially at my age I think you get to know the reliable and trustworthy content providers from those who spend half the video explaining that although the gear was sent by a manufacturer the views are their own…..blah blah…. It is a concern that those less cynical than me may be drawn in and it is good that someone with your knowledge and experience is willing to face negativity for calling it out. Sorry for the length of this comment - I’m off to look at the rest of your content. Thanks. Ps just reviewed my photo library, couldn’t find one image of a brick wall there😂😂😂
Really glad I stumbled across this video. I'm a new photographer voraciously taking in as much information and knowledge as I can about this new field, but find myself surprised when some of these big RUclips photographers don't actually have very good photos, or very few. Being a big YT creator takes ENORMOUS amounts of time...when do they have time for actual photography?
And if they're so successful as professional photographers, why do they need a YT channel, Patreon members, etc.?
This trend of "I'll teach you to do X but I actually don't do X professionally/full time myself" is something I first came across -- in spades -- when I started learning Blender (3D modeling software). The biggest YT names *don't* actually work in the industry as professionals. One RUclips Blender "instructor" actually says on his website that "we don't work in the industry" (he works together with a partner on the channel and they offer courses). Then I started learning Unreal Engine ... same thing. The "instructors" on RUclips with huge followings have literally nothing on their websites to show that they actually work as a professional in that field, yet they're charging hundreds of dollars for courses to teach you how to do something that, in truth, they do as a hobby.
Interestingly, my sister has been trying to get a YT channel going for several years, and has watched all the "Here's how to have a successful RUclips channel" videos....by people who don't actually have *any* YT channel other than the one where they're teaching people how to have a successful YT channel! In other words, they've made themselves "famous" on YT only because they're using a subject many people want to know about: how to have a successful YT channel. NOT because they actually have used the techniques they're teaching.
More and more, "fake experts" are proliferating everywhere, and it's really disheartening. Yes, many of these YT photography channels are entertaining, but they shouldn't pretend to be what they're not: actual professional photographers sharing their professional knowledge, which many of them simply don't have because they're not really professional photographers. They're professional RUclipsrs.
First off, thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. You've essentially summed up the reason I made this episode. I started my channel during Covid as an experiment and a way to keep busy but i found I loved teaching and creating fun and hopefully informative videos. I started researching on YT for other photography channels and I didn't recognize any of the "big names." I first thought, well I'm just out of touch living in Vietnam these must be the young emerging photographers and then I looked at the work and I was so underwhelmed. Entertaining channels yes, but a lot of pretend photographers churning out repetitive and copied information. Then I thought, well, I have real experience and my own actual ideas so I'll talk about that. My audience isn't huge but I love them, they have a similar vibe and passion for photography and storytelling, and that makes me happy doing this type of channel. Thanks for watching and for the great comment.
FINALLY someone mentioned the “abandoned gas station” photo trend! I call it the “I only shoot film, hipster pastel photos of mundane crap”. Good points here, Justin. I’m not a working photographer, but I only listen to those who are.
Hello Lucas, glad you liked it, I’m also getting a lot of people angry which is what I was worried about actually. My point was just to be weary if you’re viewer of that sort of content with aspirations of being a working photographer because is misleading but some people are taking it as I hate RUclips photographers.
@@AskMOTT I’m sure they are. RUclipsrs really need to be more honest in their intentions. Preface the video with “I’m not a pro/working photographer but….” There is just a lot of dishonesty. I know this because I bought into it years ago and it led me down a lot of wrong ways of thinking about photography in general. Thank you Justin for being honest. Breath of fresh air. Would love to hear you and Dan Milnor jam on this topic. That would be amazing haha.
Bravo
Mustn’t forger about a Pullen Park or similar soundtrack to match pastel photos
@@AskMOTT keep telling the truth, and I wouldn't want followers who didn't get what you are saying.
Man, I wish there were more pro's like you speaking up about this youtube photographer phenomenon. I'm just an amateur, but I've done some workshops with professionals and they all say exactly the same as you. It's always interesting to see them go through all the portfolio's on the first day, man it can be a brutal wake-up call.
As a small RUclips sports photographer, I take your comments to heart. I've tried to be honest about the gear I've talked about - good or bad - and the editing software I've tried out. I talk about things I know (or I think I know), and when I find out I said something incorrect, or my opinion on a subject changed, I correct it in later videos. I can see how some of these more famous RUclipsrs can let it go to their heads. Even with a small channel, I have people recognize me and make a big deal about meeting me. It's an ego boost. And, if you have 100K+ subs, that could really make you think you are bigger than life.
This has been one of the most enlightening videos that I have watched in normal speed in a very long time out of all the youtube BS going around. Couldn't agree with you more, and you spoke my heart so thanks for that! There are so many other interesting cliches about these content creators that I can list out now, the most annoying one that has been poking me lately are their so called "real world reviews" of gears, especially their so called expert opinions about autofocus performance of the new mirrorless cameras. These things not only are hurting the viewers, but actually even hurting great companies like Nikon who is actually losing market despite their Z system being amazing. This is so sad and not where the world of photography should have been heading in 2021. Nonetheless, thanks for speaking out. People with credentials like yours can really make a difference I believe and restore the art of photography to its real flavors 🤘🏻
Thank you so much for this , it’s wonderful and inspiring to hear people give me feedback like that. For my channel recently I just dedicated to speak the truth and from my heart on topics I’m interested in and the response has been awesome so thank you for taking the time to comment.
@@AskMOTT Definitely, it's worth my time writing these feedbacks rather than wasting watching fancy videos with nothing to learn really 😄 I am no professional photographer, but I care deeply about the art, do whatever little photography I can in my spare time ( check out instagram.com/himangshunits/ if curious 😄) and it saddens me deeply to see these so called professional photographers making expert comments on things, some of which I personally have found to be not true. I am sure professionals like you would even find millions more of those wrong things they show and say, and hopefully more and more real working professionals will start speaking up like you and help clean up the mess. Those millions of viewers deserve better content from real credential holders, not those fancy led backdrop shots taken with the Sonys 😂
I'm a photographer, as far as I take photographs, and I am proud of them, I watch RUclips photographers for entertaining personalities but skip most gear reviews and over hyped videos, I prefer the relaxed, "I'm going to take some photos, and talk about why I chose this composition, this focal length, exposure time etc" where they're just doing their thing and not overselling it
Fair enough Tom, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hope people understand why I did the video and who it’s aimed at.
This hits on a general problem with RUclips. The best content makers I find are those with experience and time in the chosen field at significant levels of achievement. The more inexperienced can have an alright impact but sometimes they lean into being an authority when they clearly aren’t.
You said it much more gracefully than I did Greg :). Same happens on Instagram and you’re right some can have an impact and some are great teachers as well, just hope people know when to tune them on and when to tune them off.
FANTASTIC video, needs to be seen by whole of RUclips. It can be applied to all human walks of life; modern media has turned our understanding of the world completely upsode down (more often than not - NOT in a good way).
Btw., what's the shpulder bay that you carry in one of the shots of the intro? 😍
Thanks so much Alexander, I appreciate that :). The bag in my opening sequence is a Billingham bag.
Yeah, when you're shooting full-time (in your own business or for news-wire services, on-assignment, etc) you don't focus on promoting yourself on RUclips or watching RUclips tutorials. Having said that, I think those "RUclips photographers" are mainly focused on creating tutorials and/or new product reviews for non-professional photographers or beginners who are still learning.
Very few people seem to understand this and it is refreshing to hear someone say it "out loud."
Thanks , it felt good to say. I just wish people understood that I’m not knocking all RUclips photographers , I admire people that educate well and it doesn’t matter their resume but many fake it and teach it, that’s dangerous for those who actually want to work full time as a photographer instead of a RUclipsr.
To name a few photographers that focus more on taking photographs, the philosophy behind it or just produce beautiful content, please find a list below:
- Thomas Heaton
- Morten Hilmer
- Chris Eyre-Walker
- Simon Baxter
- Sean Tucker (more "why" of photography/philosophical content)
Studio
- Robert Hall
- John Gress
Jamie Windsor (teory in general)
- Daniel Milnor
James Popys
Omar Gonzales
The Photographic eye
Mark Kerton
Wow, such an interesting point of view ! I think "youtube photographers" are the new "bokeh grandfather" - those who love camo-multi-pockets jackets and use 70-200 2.8 all day long even in photo exhibitions and galeries. You just trade wrinkle poor-but-humble old men faces by gas stations or backlit people with an umbrella silhouettes and it's the same.
You can add the vanlife-youtube-photographer, who shoot his van in the seaftont, during sunsets, under the milky way and all of it by his van's mirrors and you got the perfect recipe. Many of them mix neo hippie lifestyle and imagine themselves as Jack Kerouac childs, but they all do the same pictures, everyday, every kilometer.
Love it Richie, didn’t know the Van life thing , that’s hilarious. I am a fan of Kerouac but I know what you mean :).
I totally agree with what you are saying just that ... it is not needed to be explained on your youtube. The one thing I realised is between working full time and my family life, I have very little to no time to make RUclips videos, that's a full time job on its own.
It is one of those topics which doesn't need to be out there, some people are smart enough to know the difference, some aren't - just like some people are my clients and some are not - for whatever reason.
RUclips is a bit of everything for everyone and, just like any social media, it is a big Big, HUGE, cake and everyone can have their slice.
The one thing I realized in the first 5 videos (and only videos I shared on RUclips) talking about photography is limited and in the end - you'll have to repeat the same stuff over and over again versus gear reviews - where there is always something new to review.
Daniel Milnor vs Peter McKinnon - one I love but repeats the same stuff over and over again and the other always puts new content out. A used to be working photographer versus a camera reviewer who can actually produce great content ... anyhoo for Christmas I am thinking about sending you pretty neon lights to put up in your background in your new corner ;-)
There was a time câmera and film companies send their latest gear to field photographers, usually from national or magnum, so they could have their validation after some months of use.
Today... some kid with millions of subscribers in the US shooting a coffee montage.
That's the world we are living my friend. Nice video
Very true unfortunately Pablo, thanks for watching .
Ha ha, yes… The “coffee montage” is the new RUclips cliche.
@PabloContrerasFotoviajante Or in Canada. (just sayin')
Thank you for this - great points. I think you and Daniel Milner are the only people I’ve heard talk about this subject.
Thank you David, I’ll have to check him out.
Thank you, Justin! You've helped me rearrange a lot of my understanding. You'll help a lot more. Due to start university for Photography this semester; I arrived at the right time!
That’s wonderful to hear Courtney , what school are going to ? Hoping to make some more videos very soon so if you have any topics you want me to address let me know. Also, on my Instagram I’m starting to do shorter tips and advice if you’re interested @askmott
@@AskMOTT I'm studying Digital Imaging and Photography in Liverpool, UK. Can't wait to get started! Thank you! I've followed you under cdksmith on IG. I find your videos and insight to be so valuable, as I have aspirations to become a working photographer in the future. I'll be sure to drop in to the mailbag soon! Oh, P.S. (Maybe this could be a Mailbag question?) I'm having trouble getting the best out of my images uploading to IG, I lose a lot of quality! Any uploading tips? The best results I've seen are sharing direct from Lightroom. I'm hoping to display my full portfolio upon opening a website; so, I'm holding a lot of images back in the archives! See, I do listen to you! :-) Thanks again! Courtney.
Love it when RUclipsrs buy their first camera and a year later or less they are pros leading group tours and teaching others by giving them totally wrong info. Very true with a lot of the self appointed pro wildlife photographers, one even told people to over expose so you can recover highlights in post and actually stood by that after being told the opposite was true.
Thanks for your comment Doug. I started my RUclips channel specifically because I saw so much mad information by so many terrible photographers.
Thanks for putting this out. Well said.
Thanks for watching Catherine :)
My favourites are "Master Class" videos, "Master Class" books and preset sales. 30 years ago when I said "I'm a photographer," they said Wooow, today they say, "me too". Photography lost its meaning and it became a mass-production of over-edited, oversaturated cliches done by a billion people. To be honest, I'm doing the same BS for over 40 years those billions doing now, except I don't put anything on SM. If somebody reaches the level "We don't need to introduce you" as a photographer, till then we are just a "me too" photographer of billions. Just for fun, you are a real YT photographer, you got the little green plant on your table. By the way, you are right on, "less is more".
But my plant is actually real Bela, my wife placed it there for me , and no colored lights yet for me :)
Thank you for making this video. I think this type of video isn’t made too much b/c no one wants to alienate other “creators” in this space and hope to get a collab with one of these “RUclips” photographers to build up their channel. I watch a few of these “RUclips” photographer channels out of amusement but there are some I just can’t stand. Don’t get me started with those that are now going the Shopify/Amazon FBA bro route and “selling” courses on how to make it into photography/cinematography and “cinematography” RUclips. Shit, my Instagram doesn’t even have the amount of followers some of these big names have but I take much better photos than most of them and I don’t even shill my preset collection that one could make if they learn to use Lightroom or other editing apps.
Also, this same type of behavior exist with the Apple RUclipsrs as well.
Thanks for watching Nelson and thanks for your comments. I agree , people put way took much stock into followers and not that actual work, it’s a shame.
There's a difference. Working professional commercial photographers with proper portfolios references and resume, hobbyists who take good photos, and RUclipsrs who do videos on photography. Best to know who or what you are watching. Thanks.
Hey Justin. Love your channel and what you do. Unfortunately I haven't come across the RUclipsrs you mention. I feel like I'm missing out on something I have only a handful of what I call real photographers that I follow on RUclips and I don't watch what I don't subscribe to. Who cares how many followers you have. I think you're great, educational, witty, take amazing photos and are on a mission to properly educate hobbyist, like myself, about photography. I never look at how many subscribers a channel has. I also do research on people before subscribing to make sure I'm not wasting my time. I've been in education my entire life. I wasn't the most popular teacher, but students knew that I was very good at teaching. There is a big difference between popularity and excellence.
This comment made my day Timothy, thank you. I’ve received so much positive feedback here , of course w the occasional angry rant, but mostly good. I was genuinely worried that people would receive this the wrong way so I was hesitant to film it and then again hesitant to make it live. In the end I trusted my small following to know what my intentions were and I’m so thankful that it’s been well received. Thanks brother :)
@@AskMOTT You're welcome. Also, with fewer followers, you can respond to comments and that is greatly appreciated among those that take the time to add a comment. I do have a question for you - you never stated why you got rid of your Hasselblad. I just got the Hasselblad x1dii this past year. I've been taking photos as a hobbyist since 1980. I wanted something with great color, great handling, and a great user interface with the fewest menus possible. I was debating between Hasselblad and Leica. I know all of the cons about the Hasselblad - it's slow, no Ibis, battery life, etc - but that is why I like it. I shoot in manual mode. I use the 45p lens and the 80 1.9 (which is a bit heavy but incredible). Just curious as to what the Hasselblad wasn't allowing you to do for you to move on from it. Thanks. Tim
You're so right. Unfortunately, these people are treated like film stars and people believe everything they say. These are the same people who complain about the latest cameras not having the specs they 'must have' and change their systems every other year. I can think of two of the most famous/biggest where their photography is mediocre at best and their 'advice' is appalling.
Thanks Frank, and I find it funny that people are getting so mad that I’m calling them out on it. I mean look at the work, it’s not actually good at all, average at best and here they are giving advice on how to improve your photography:(.
You have a point tho … at times I watch these videos thinking of getting one or more info about photography… but most of these people can’t actually give out the right info … because most are more of content creators than photographers
Thank you Sheyilor, I see they have their place but it's all about context. Many are great at giving general tips but when it gets more specific are many of them really qualified to talk bout the industry or business of photography. Thanks for watching.
Nice one, fyi about 75% of RUclips photography channel viewers are Amateur Photographers. They mostly watching RUclips videos for edutainment 🙂
I know and thanks for sharing that but my hopes are to put some information out there for a different audience that cares about these types of topics. That’s why I’ll most likely maintain a lose subscriber account and that’s also fine with me :)
Dude you hit the nail on the head with this . So true , these days its all about mirrors and smoke .
Thank you , I think I upset some people with this episode but it was just meant to bring some clarity to the lies I was seeing out there about our industry.
So true Justin. I watch some of the RUclips "photographers" because I am interested in photography and it's good to watch others doing it "in the field" but I am never fooled into the BS, so many times I see photographs on these channels that are mediocre at best and only taken to fill the shot list on the channel. It won't stop me casually watching them though because it is better than telly (in UK). I am not a Pro but I am working on a long term project for myself that may eventually become a book but the book is not my reason for the project I have a real purpose for my project which drives me to go out and shoot. It is going to be shot on MF Film once I have all the recces done but it is not anything that you could call hipster.
I watch them too and many are actually entertaining and obviously a lot more appealing than mine :). Happy that you understood my reasoning and my approach as I’ve received many comments by people that were so angry about this episode and I can’t understand why.
So love the channel and the IG! Speaking the truth brother. I saw a "Long term review" on the M6 by some dude that has not even been alive as long as i have owned mine. LOL keep up the rants! Oh the 70-200 is the photographic equivalent of REI pants that unzip into shorts IMO- bad pair of pants and pad pair of shorts. MMV as i could see a wedding shooter needing one but not a hipster in some remote village shooting the old folks home in the street. stay 100! Just like photography was the best thing that ever happened to painting, social media (history will show) will be the best thing to happen to real photography. Think on that as the fingers snap in the smoke filled, Bucket of Blood like, Film Noir, club.
Hilarious, 70-200mm being the equivalent of REI zip pants made me spit my coffee out , love it. I didn’t realize how many people would be so upset about what I’m saying here or misinterpret it , wow, oh well, it’s the truth.
@@AskMOTT yeah these days you cannot tell the truth without a free bucket of chicken tendies to give out. You always take the most flack when over the target. Keep bringing it.
I think that was Evan Ramft might have spelled his name wrong! You’re absolutely correct!
This is pure gold.
Thank you Jay 😃
This is what I think everytime the name Peter McKinnon is brought up.
Ha ha , no comment :).
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve met people that say he is their favorite photographer. 🤯
@@Stockezy yes... 😳
@@Stockezy Oh man, really?
@@AskMOTT Sadly yes. Glad to come across channels like this though. Your work is inspiring brother! Keep showing em what real work looks like! 🙌🏾
I would prefer watching professional photographers talking about their work if I want to know about photography, like how to set up lighting for wedding photography, why you would use certain setting under certain conditions, how to do studio lighting.
Thank you for your feedback.
Exactly. people who actually are working and are getting paid for their interesting work. not some plank with no compositional or lighting skills telling you how to use a camera when they can't even take a decent photo
I’m a “RUclips” photographer that is transitioning my channel from gear focused garbage to my actual practice of photography. This video resonates.
That’s awesome Eric, I was worried many RUclips photographers would take offense and technically I’m a RUclips photographer as well but my point was a lot of the famous ones are selling a bit of a lie and I wanted to explain some things. Looking forward to your channel, send me a link.
@@AskMOTT sure thing. Most of my prior videos were just GAS garbage. Starting this weekend, that changes. I contemplated starting a whole new channel but ultimately decided to keep it here and just make the transition to more storytelling and photo-focused content and let it happen naturally. I’m making a video talking about my decision and then it’s off to Denver this weekend. My style is typical no nonsense much like yours meaning no b-roll or fancy lighting but moving forward it will be a little different. Anyways, here’s the link. Thanks for the reply.
ruclips.net/channel/UCGRpSusvd9mo9tBflQpCd9g
Good point of view - I have a name for them "Psydoexperts". I did work as a premium photogear salesman for meny years ago. I react to all youtubers that say "this is the best camera" and doesn't really attend to what kind of photographer or the level or experience of the viewer.
As best you can group some camera models to a group of photgraphic interests or areas or style of taking pictures.
Are you in for wild life look in for this models and lenses, are you in for portraits and studio look in to this gear and etc. If more general terms or interests try to address a style of taking pictures and a price point and then what gear to look into.
Always recommend to test and feel the gear in real life not only buy from a recommendation.
Just to say "this is the best camera" and changing best camera for all new videos is not serious. I find these psydoexperts as arrogant and irresponsible just want to market their own youtube channel. The worst variant of psydoexperts just want to seek self-affirmation and rarely know anything about the subject they are trying to excel at.
Well said Magnus, every week it’s their new favorite camera and they’ve only used it for a day or a week and not even in realistic situations for most people :(.
The truth! Warts, blemishes and pain. A very hard life unless one sets goals. A plan for future. A needed experience in making images or videos. I am glad I am retired! Enjoy. Bravo Justin Mott.
Quality advice thanks, I watched the video you were on about.
Wondered what the hell was going on there, I don’t know how to work in that industry but thought this is no way for any business to go about stuff.
For around 7 years been Trying to learn about photography and work out if can maybe transition to it one day, wondering though if it’s a bit not what you know but who you know.
That’s not to offend the likes of you or others just wondering from outside looking in sort of appears that way. Or maybe good photographers end up meeting the right people that help with those things.
I have take a petrol pump photo 😆 also I few others like houses because when moved from Uk to USA were so different just like the films.
Any way go steady thanks
Hello Sam, thanks for watching and for your comments. I do believe like anything it helps to know the right people but that comes from hustling and constantly networking and putting yourself out there. For me a big break was getting into the Eddie Adams workshops and meeting some editors there, that helped a ton.
I found your video interesting and I enjoy your channel. I'm not a photographer. My dad was. He did a lot of scientific and technical photography for a research lab and was published a good bit in textbooks and scientific publications. I saw him shoot weddings and nature and abstract types of subjects Because of that I have a love of taking pictures, I like taking candids at events for organizations and family and I do nature and landscape. I have inherited a lot of cameras, I have an M2, M5 a Mamiya C220 and a raft of Nikons. Your right about the gear reviews. Each camera body has it's own character, the more automatic the camera, the less you have to think about the mechanics of taking a picture , you can pretty much keep firing and select some images that convey what you were trying to capture. I'm taking up B&W film again, which is what Dad mainly had me shoot as a kid...
As you said there are the gas station photogs.... And there's the working Photogs.... and then there are those who enjoy the process, have time... and a few quarters and want to go out and take a dang good photo. Not hoping to get paid or when an award or 10M likes.... just a picture that when you look into it, you keep looking into it and your in that place or moment. And sometimes, totally unexpectedly one can capture an image that anyone, everyone... it is said that some music can appeal to everyone, across time and culture... Photo's can do it to. What do you think one needs to bring to the table, to capture that? Not trying to be social media famous, not trying to make a living with a camera, just trying to make some meaningful images
Thank you for sharing your story about your dad Paul, loved reading this. It’s actually nice when you aren’t worried about making money form your photography because then you can truly express yourself and dedicate time to finding and fine tuning your style. As for advice I always recommend that people slow down and find a project to work on. Something you can shoot for a few hours a week or on the weekend. It could be a theme or a story but the key is to find something your passionate about. For some they like to document family members for some it’s more thematic like the music scene in… or markets in… but really anything can be a project if you’re passionate about it. Start broad and aim to narrow down your focus. Hope that helps , go start your project and share w me along the way .
@@AskMOTT share here through RUclips or do you have a Facebook or other platform that I could upload to?
I have a few sets of pictures... that if critiqued , I could have a place to start from to get better...
Are you still willing/have time to evaluate some photos? Where could I upload?
So true Justin... but people like to believe in the dream... and don't realize that it's only within reach of half a dozen people... usually people with rich parents... many of the "travel photographers" are just rich kids who are parents pay for everything...
Funny enough how you spot that guy to make a great example of this topic. The first and probably the only time I saw a video of Evan was about the M240, mentioning that he couldn´t take great photos because of the sensor..??? For me was enough to wrap up what this guy knows about photography and more than that, what is photography to this kind of people. What is sad, is how a company can contact and rely in these people to work for them, but explains somehow the way we live in this world, what matters is what it looks like, not what it is, and social networks have only strengthened this way of life.
Well done Justin.
I didn’t mean to actually pick on that guy and I actually respect he told his embarrassing story but so many others mislead and exaggerate and it can be so confusing for those starting out and wanting to start a photography business so I figured I’d clear some things up while also being a little snarky in the process :)
@@AskMOTT I agree with you, at the end he was humble enough to recognize that he was wrong, sharing the experience. The thing is "they" create the sense to the audience about the knowledge and large experience, and in fact, their opinions will influence others to buy , to do, to make certain decisions... etc... based on what???
Well, probably at the end, they are doing what they knows better, and it´s up to the audience to embrace in their BS.
Facts! Thanks for this 👏
You are very welcome , thanks for watching.
I used to like watching the Johnny Carson Show because he had personality and entertaining delivery. I like to learn and have come to realize that the RUclips photography personalities often aren’t even good educators. I tire quickly when personality is the majority of the message.
I find the exaggerated perspective of a wide angle is more playful when taking kid photos-especially when they're at play.
Do double cliches cancel each other out ?
The same thing in music. I get the same criticisms when I point out the difference between a social media musician and a musician that has played on records, toured with bands. And yes, a lot of bad advice from web musicians.
I can only imagine Chris, and people always think it’s jealousy and hate, it’s not for me, I’m just pointing out misinformation.
Maybe it's better the debate of real artist vs fake artist.Actually,some amateur or advanced photographers have really good skill and the eyes for art.But to be successful in the field may be not for them.It happen to us all the time.
Some tech reviewers have deep understanding about the devices but they're not even talented in art,it might be the hobby to them.
The point of this is that some untalented photographers,but they create good content which is entertaining to viewers and get more attention than real pro who is underground.Example,i'm an musician who has deep understanding about chords and music production but people only idolize the singers,they don't even respect nor care who i am when i talk about music as an underground,unknown musician.
Definitely an interesting approach and thanks for sharing your thoughts. I mainly wanted to clear up some of the misleading implied information that I was seeing and wanted to clarify it so people don’t fall for it :)
Most photo RUclipsrs are all guilty of this. I remember seeing Sony and canon ambassadors promote new gear only to look through their work and realise “I'm better than them”. Most youtube photographers work are always over exposed.......
Unfortunately it’s all too common Samuel, sponsors based on followers rather than quality of work.
Great video!
I have a following of 0 and was a working photographer for 40 years. The worst out here are professional gear reviewers masquerading as elite photogs.
I think you're right to caution viewers. I don't discount the youtubers' sincerity, knowledge, or passion for the art but when it seems their principal connection to the craft is youtube, one looking for practical - real life - tips, insights, etc should be cautioned. Anyone can pick up a camera and say they are a "professional" but without a body of work in the field, they just aren't. They're like the golf "pro" at a driving range; they don't play professionally, but they do offer insights and helpful tips to the average Joe looking to identify flaws in their game. Sort of how the Brits don't call their newsreaders "Reporters" or "Journalists". They're Presenters It doesn't take anything away from what they do and what (often) great value they provide but I do think that unless they have the education and experience, technical experts and product reviewers are in a different category than actual working professional photographers.
Thanks David , I totally don’t mean to discount their work, even if I was snarky at times. I just felt it was important to caution those w aspirations to improve over replicating and for those who want to make a living off of photography as a business rather than photography as an influencer. I appreciate you watching and your comments :)
@@AskMOTT Yours was an excellent piece, Justin; didn't think it was snarky at all. Well measured.
RUclips photographers are content creators. The true form of photography is about composition, lighting and story. RUclips and Instagram photographers are just about preset and ps tricks. High contrast or muted color. Appealing but no substance. Their work look all the same and boring after a while.
Well said Luis :)
I am a RUclips “photog”… 😬 I dont try to woo people into thinking I am a pro though, I have many videos detailing that I am a machinist by trade and that photography is a hobby for me (honestly this is probably why my channel is puttering along too) I dont sell presets, I did print a photobook about my experience of shooting street through the pandemic, but I told everyone basically not to buy it because print on demand it so expensive. I get your points though, I saw the same video you mentioned and wondered how that could have happened to be honest. But who am I to judge, I wasnt in his shoes… anyway, I agree with you on the whole look and see if they are producing content or photos and learn from the ones that are doing what you want to do. Great video👍📸 Thanks for taking the time to explain how you feel too, lots of people throw salty rants out there just for the clicks, this is not one of those videos. I really appreciate it.
Thank you David, I appreciate hearing you’re side of things and I thinks awesome people make photo books. my point was just to clarify what I feel is misleading information by a lot of popular RUclips photographers sending new photographers into the world unprepared for reality.
I think you're in a quite different category, David. I've seen some of your films and enjoyed them. You're a guy sharing his hobby with no pretence of being an influencer and that's fine.
@@Tom_RUclips_stole_my_handle thank you Tom, I really appreciate that. 👍📸
@@AskMOTT Thank you Justin, I admire you for making a career out of photography. It is not an easy one, I know enough to know that it is super hard work to do it well. I completely agree with your point of view of misleading people and setting them up to fail, thank you again!👍
Truth.
Thanks
Could you please create a video on how you price your work, from individual prints to assignments? I am more interested in the process and your considerations rather than actual sum figures.
That’s a great idea Paul, let me think it through on how to approach it.
@@AskMOTT It would be great 🙏
Views and likes. That's what it's all about. And I just tune out when they open with "what's up everybody"!
Well said Daniel, I should’ve started the episode with that :)
Spot on.
Thanks for this.
My man 🤘🏼
Yep! You will probably never have as many followers as the headshot dude. Few want to hear the tough truths. Thank you!
I tell my photo students all the time to be cautious of RUclips. I’ve witnessed tech explanations that were wrong or misleading and to vet them. I guess this goes for their professional chops too. BTW, the project depth you advocate for is very much akin to what I teach in my advanced portfolio development class. Do you ever sleep?
You are absolutely right, on the long run you will be decapitated if you only listening RUclips photographers they are talking about camera review and selling unnecessary things , rather teaching some things they just selling themselves
Thank you Sk, I was just growing tired of the misleading BS :)
Amen...
Was I too mean William? I just felt I had to get this out there and I couldn’t resist being a little snarky in the process :).
I get what you are saying and knowing whom you are talking about, I think you are being a little unfair. The channel has very much been a vlog of their journey and experience and they never really shout about being an expert. That’s the impression I have got going through most of their videos.
I feel the same way
Kicking up the RUclips drama for clicks, Justin? Jk. Haha!
No no Ted, I really did just want to address this . Hope all is well my friend.
@@AskMOTT Things are ok. Just keeping my head down and working.
I generally watch a good amount of photo-tubers for background entertainment. Every now and then there is a nugget of information or inspiration. But as for business advice or how to approach paid work and assignments? There isn't much worthwhile information coming from them on it. Then again, I am not the audience they are marketing towards, as I been in this for a while now.
my main issues with RUclips photographers (especially the portrait photographers) is that they all are carbon copies of each other. none of their work stands out. All of their work looks exactly the same. also half of their videos are just commercials for overly expensive gear most people don't need.
Loved it
Thank you David, hope I didn’t offend too many people but it had to be said.
Because , "I" think it easier to walk up to a child than it is to do the same thing with a adult or even a elderly person.
Interesting 🤔
You make me nervous Terrence like you’re about to scold me ha ha. I hope people understand the spirit and reason I did this video , I wasn’t trying to attack anyone even if I was a bit snarky, just trying to clarify some things I saw as misleading.
Was I too mean?
Yes!….but you didn’t include Pierre what’sisname so you could be meaner next time!…😘….Mott?…..isn’t that Captain Picards barber on Star Trek Next Generation?……nicely done…😂😘🇬🇧📸
Nah! The real world dealing with clients expectations, scheduling, organization, finances, gear cost, balancing art and commerce. That hard, and can be really “mean”. Thank you for this video.
I don't think you were mean at all. No worries. I'm in a completely different profession and see the same thing and it's annoying when I've had years of education, experience and see people marketing themselves who have taken shortcuts and basically have no real knowledge. The average consumer doesn't understand the difference.
abandonend gas station/old man in the street/upfront kids shot/tourist shots made on film, I am so sick of these photos.
Love it Jingrui, keep listing more :). I’m
sure the mean comments are coming so it’s great to have some support :)
Me - (reads comment, makes sad face looking at his recently shot photo of abandoned Mobile station with old man walking by it as children play in the foreground)
I trust anyone who has a copy of The Americans on their desk.
Have you ever read his biography Andrew, it’s very good? American Witness.
@@AskMOTT No, I'll have to check it out. I've seen Don't Blink and Leaving Home, Coming Home. Thanks for the recommendation.
I watched this Evan Raft video....funny in a sad way
I really didn’t mean to pick on him, I was more talking about the masses of RUclips famous photographers and how a lot of what they have to say is misleading.
Matt Day springs to mind! 🤔
Not the same but similar: Same RUclips-Photographers also love to refer to themselves as "I'm a photographer and filmmaker", I heard this countless times... Then look that person up and you won't find a single film they made, not a single work they sent into the festival circuit and so on... And the same RUclips-photographer-filmmaker then also offers paid workshops for filmmaking? Sorry... But making videos is not the same as filmmaking. I studied film, I know real filmmakers, I know people who busted their asses and destroyed themselves for months or even years to create and finish one work of film. That is filmmaking, not making gear videos or mounting a Gopro to a Leica M6 and making street photography videos... I own a camera and take pics therefore I'm a photographer. My camera can also make videos and I bought a lot of gear therefore I'm a filmmaker. Sorry, but this is not how it works. As much as I appreciate their gear videos, them flashing their gorgeous M6 that I dream of, every time one of them refers to themselves as 'filmmaker' I cringe... This is also why I really appreciate people like you, who are working photographers / filmmakers who make videos teaching or just rambling on the side. It's great to get insight from people whose work you follow and like.
Very well said Marcky and so true. I also don’t understand why do many people just makes highlight reels or just a compilation of sexy b-roll and call it a film or make a teaser for a video that doesn’t exist. That was such a huge thing photographer’s did when the Canon 5D Mark 2 came out , every photographer became a “filmmaker “.
@@AskMOTT There are other, equally "cool sounding" things one can call themself when making videos, commercially or privately, portfolio or for application... It just sometimes feels a bit disrespectful using labels for oneself, just because you would like it to be that way. Enough claiming "hey youtube I am xyz" more going out and doing things :P
👌
If you're going to base an entire video on bashing Evan Ranft, it seems like the decent thing to do would be to use his name so people can go judge his work for themselves. Not saying you don't make valid points (I think you get to a really good point that there are clearly different goals between focusing on a youtube channel and focusing on photography work), but it came across as kinda petty
Thanks for your input Bryan. I see how it can come off like I’m bashing that guy, but I actually applaud that dude for admitting his mistake and I’m not trying to call out or shame anyone specifically. the reason I did this episode is talk to loads of aspiring photographers who listen to a lot of misleading information from numerous high profile RUclips photographers and so much of it is false. Specifically the information that I mentioned about doing real commercial photo shoots, personal projects, etc. It sets people up who want to make a living off of a photography business only for disaster. I understand I’ll upset some people but my focus here is to help those who want to start a photography career while yes, being slightly snarky at the same time.
It takes a lot to own up to your mistakes, Evan is a very talented creator and photographer.
Nah, I think he hit the right balance between frustration and keeping a lid on it and not foaming at the mouth.
@@AskMOTT finally. I don't want to bash his particular channel but I started watching him about two years ago and laughed my ass off.
@@johnfranklin3230 ah, no he's not. His stuff is mediocre at best.
I'd back you up any day, preach that gospel!
Thank you for that :).
The NY slimes.
Ouch :(
💪📸👍
Coolest emoji trio I’ve seen :)
You appear to be calling out Evan Ranft here, and this video seems a bit underhand and screams of snobbery and a touch of jealousy. Evan, as I understand it, is a working photographer and shot brand photography for a number of sneaker brands before turning to street photography once he started his RUclips channel and leveraged it that way. Smart, if you ask me. As a working photographer who is fairly new to the industry (2 years), I find this content unhelpful and a bit outdated. No doubt you are a very very good photographer, and have your own ways of working, but to call out others who are making a living in this industry because you feel like they’re “doing it wrong”, is a bit sad mate. I wish you the best, but don’t shit on people who are earning a living doing what they love just because they don’t do it the way you do. Atb.
Not particularly, he just came to mind about a story he told about not having a clue what he was doing on a commercial shoot, which led to me doing this episode. I respect his honesty and his hustle, but the point of my episode was that people that want to make money strictly or mostly from photography should watch some RUclips photographers skeptically or at least skeptically outside of entertainment purposes. Many of them haven't worked truly as professional photographers or at least not long enough to give real-world career advice about the photography industry specifically. They are more than qualified to give advice on what it's like to be a successful RUclipsr, and yes that is a much larger audience. My content is aimed at people wanting to make the majority of their income from taking photos and I use my real-world experience doing that for almost 20 years to provide insight and some entertainment along the way. No jealousy at all here, my goal was and still is to make the majority of my income from taking photos and that is exactly what I do, it's my passion. My channel started during the pandemic, as a side hustle, turned out I liked it and continue doing it. It's also there to diversify myself in case another lockdown happens, but it's not my business and I'm not qualified to tell people how to become a successful RUclipsr nor do I claim that is where I make my income from. I'm not even jealous of more successful photographers and I constantly help my competition get work and understand the business side of photography better. My episode is aimed at people, again, who want to make a living from taking photos and tells them to be cautious of watching these big-name photographers/RUclipsrs give misinformation about the industry that simply wouldn't be relevant to what they want to do. I've watched many of the successful RUclipsrs start to believe their own BS, and give advice that isn't applicable and potentially harmful to new photographers that want to become a pro. Believe what you want, but this is a tale of caution with some entertainment mixed in.
@@AskMOTT hey Justin, I appreciate the reply mate. I would actually like to offer my apologies as after I made this comment I went on to watch a couple more of your videos and I had a much better reference point of where your view was coming from. We can agree to disagree on a couple of the points raised in the video, however I respect that you have a successful career and track record and are therefore entitled to have your opinion. Thank you again for the measured reply and apologies again if I jumped to critique your viewpoints without having wider context. Have a great day mate and keep the content coming. Atb, Ryan
Great points, and your body of work seems very impressive. But I think it’s a bit unfair to those creators that you’re slamming. If you’re a Lebron James or a former high school basketball player, you can still share and teach those who want to learn about basketball. Of course there will be a gap of knowledge and experience, but is it bs? Not necessarily. Maybe your standards are different, but these are people who are putting themselves out there, sharing their experiences, and what they’ve learned. If there are people that are paying money for what these RUclips photographers are sharing, that’s totally fine. Majority of people on this planet don’t create or share stuff on the internet, but just consume. So kudos to those who are creating and sharing.
Thanks for sharing your feedback Michael. I love and respect people who create and this wasn't meant to be a slam on them. To stick with your analogy using basketball(which I love) I think it makes perfect sense for highschool ballers to give advice and tips but what I would be wary of or take issue is, is if that highschool player was giving out tips on what its like to play in the NBA, that was point. Hope that makes sense, thanks for watching.
You shouldn't have done this, my friend.
Why not?
@@AskMOTT At one or two points in the video it sounds a bit like sour grapes, a bit like your suggesting, "hey, these guys are not pros, I am a pro and everyone should be watching my videos." You are right, of course, but some points are not worth making. I've watched many of your videos and enjoy your upbeat presentations, and I've also followed some of your advice. This video seemed a bit out of character for you, methinks. RUclips and social media are not fair and often valorize bizarre, untalented contributors. That's the way mobs work. Got to ignore it and carry on. All the best to you!
Where to start🤣 ... You talk about RUclipsr setups with LED lights and yet you're in a fake room staged , with a painted walls to look like concrete, you have books and note books placed on your desk to make yourself look smart, you even have a fake plant, the list goes on. I subscribed to your channel because your Leica video, but then found out 95% of your photos were shot on Canon. Why judge other people when you are doing the same thing using Leica to get views etc ... If you change the angle of your video camera you picture on the wall will not look crooked.
Concrete is real , guest room is real, plant is real, notebooks are actually all filled with notes and captions from assignments and I’m very open about switching back to to Leica a few years ago and all of my personal project images which make up 95% of my opening page portfolio are shot w my Leica , happy to show my metadata. These are actual facts, no assumptions and misleading like what I talked about with others.
The room has been setup which is what other you tubers do. I never said the book were empty, just that you have placed for a reason and I never talked about your website. Your assignment work which you love to talk about, was over 90% shot on Canon. My comments are not to upset you, just making a point you are no different to other RUclips photographers. Some of the photographers on RUclips have seen a slow down or even photography work dry up and have taken to RUclips share their knowledge and help others. It's not your place to call them out when you are doing the same.
Was about to write about the room setup, it’s very sad Justin has gone down to this level already.
Missed his point entirely.
So only awesome photos can be made with Leicas? Or should someone toss out all of their past work, whether it being assignment or personal work, cause it is no longer the camera brand they use anymore?
Okay. More than 15 minutes of dissing others and claiming what you’re not. I know you through RUclips. Who are you to me? An RUclipsr who claims to be a renowned photographer. I actually don’t know you! Instead why don’t you actually share what you know. People who want to learn, like myself, will learn. I have learnt PLENTY of technical stuff because of those RUclips photographers. Matt Granger, Gerald Undone, Phillip Bloom, Sean Tucker, Jiggie Alejandrino, Ted Forbes, Thomas Heaton, Alex Kilbee, Nigel Danson, Wolfcrow, Jason Lanier... so many of these guys make photography and film simple. I write this because you talked about this before as well. It doesn’t matter what they do. I want to watch your content and absorb your teachings and the value in them. Not for the reasons you look down upon others!
Many of my videos are educational , this one is meant to point out that many RUclips photographers are misleading viewers about what it takes to be a full time working photographer or a what it takes to do a meaningful photo story. It’s meant for people that care about stuff like that and want to know the reality of that works, that’s all. It’s great your learning stuff from those photographers, many are good at teaching things , I’m just offering a different perspective.
@@AskMOTT Many of the photographers he pointed out are actually working photographers with their RUclips channels more of a side thing, I watch many of those he mentioned actually and the content is really educational. Ted Forbes for example doesn't just talk about gear and the like, same with Ted Forbes/The Art of Photography.
But I think I know who or the types of RUclips channels that you're referring to. I've come across channels where the images were pretty similar to each other ( aesthetics, model ) and its usually the same formula. These ones I've stopped watching because well, there really wasn't much in terms of value that I could get out of them. But you have channels like some of the ones mentioned by Main Main, and like Tinhouse Studios or Fig and Light.
Edit: I usually check out their sites and see if they have any reviews for their work and then look at their content. That's usually how I know these are really photographers with practical experience and knowledge. And of course the content.
@@AskMOTT Hmm ok... I understand. Looking forward to hearing more from you. Wishing you all the best on RUclips and generally. :)
@Main Main add Daniel Milnor to your list. One can learn so much from him. Straight shooter too
@@rp1au Yes I forgot to mention. He often appears on Marc Silber's channel. Really enjoy those talks!
This video purports that there is really a gamut of being a “real photographer”. I get there is a difference between a photographer that is client facing… I.e. freelance, and there is a methodology to being that type of photography. But a person that uses a marketing to build an audience re photography, how does that make them any less a photographer? A corporate client doesn’t validate what makes something “real” photography. You have a point to say the method to becoming a client facing photographer is different and it could be misleading. But one isn’t greater than the other… you say a photo book isn’t a mark or success? Who defines that? Why is making a self published book to sel to their audience make any less? This video is so bitter as if to say because you shoot photos for news platforms it makes your work more valuable. This is gatekeeping at it’s finest. Instead of illustrating different ways to make money for photographers you are bashing the new generation of creators.
Thanks for you comments Yannick. I don't consider myself a gatekeeper and it's not a bash on a new generation of creators. I'm in the minority when it comes to the the way I make income from my photography, I get that. However, I still have an audience that wants to freelance the traditional way and or run a photography business the traditional way. A lot of people come to be for consulting sessions after they've listened to the RUclips Photographer I addressed with all sorts of misconceptions about the reality of it mainly due to the misleading information these people I address aren't qualified to discuss. Many, not all, love to pretend they've worked years on a book project or that is funded by a big publishing house or that even they make money off of it. The reality they shot it for a week and they are rarely funded by anyone other than the photographer that shot them.Books rarely make money and no a self published book doesn't validate you, not in the world I"m talking about. Editoris don't care or commercial clients don't care in the traditional sense about that at all, never mind competing against a book with substance where the photographer actually spent a significant amount of time working on it. If you people want to learn how to make a living their way, the RUclips Photographer way, that's fine, listen to them. If you want to make it and are interesting in doing it the traditional way absolutely don't listen to most of them. Most have never been a professional traditional shoot ever in their lives, as I referenced the photographer in this episode not having a clue how to to headshots. The issue is they exageraate their experience and skills because it sounds cooler and suit their brand to do so, the harm is, the average photographer can't get way with going on a professional shoot they way they do it, filming themselves the entire time and not understanding the intricacies of what goes into a proper traditional shoot.
@@AskMOTT im sure someone at your level understands that there are tiers to professional photography and that there’s also a gamut to it. Meaning there is room for professionals to exist at different levels of experience. Small brands exist and large brands exist and all of them have a need for photography services. There are persons who can educate only up to a certain level sure. If I am a beginner I can learn from someone at the intermediate level, and intermediates can learn from experts. Success can look different to everyone and not everyone will become as successful as you are by your standards but it doesn’t mean persons sharing the experience they have at their level invalidates them as photographers or professionals. I know the video you are speaking of, it was a story of an experience they had as a beginner… everyone was once a beginner so I’m trying to understand how sharing that story, validates you saying this person is “believing their own BS”, it is in that manner I think you are gatekeeping because you imply that their experience while non traditional is not valuable. I think a critique is not beyond reason but calling someone sharing their experience BS just seems to be a prejudiced kind of view.
@@YannickReid I think we have some miscommunication, the story I'm telling isn't of a beginner going on a shoot it's of a successful youtube photographer that went on a paid professional shoot that he was hired to do because a client saw his RUclips channel. From my understanding he wasn't an amateur he was a pro but went on the shoot as a professional but decided to "wing it" and while I respect the attempt and admitting to this embarrassing experience my point is not just him but many photographers successful on youtube, which is its own thing and I respect and get that, the ones that pretend they have experience doing real professional traditional photo shoot can cause confusion and be misleading. This comes from experiencing listening to beginner photographer think "their way is how it works in the real world" and my experience is it doesn't work that way, both for how you prep and real w a traditional photoshoot or how much time and effort goes into a proper book that has depth and meaning.