BIG THREES ARE NOT THE WAY TO GO! 🗣️ - Windy on the end of 'big three' era in the NBA | First Take
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 май 2024
- Brian Windhorst joins Tim Legler, Shannon Sharpe and Molly Qerim on First Take to debate if the big three era is over in the NBA.
0:00 Big three era's over?
3:00 Having the right three!
4:45 Player maxes
8:00 Having and trading picks
☑️ Subscribe to ESPN+: plus.espn.com/
📱Get the ESPN App: www.espn.com/espn/apps/espn
🏀 Subscribe to NBA on ESPN on RUclips: bit.ly/2yxs3Og
☑️Subscribe to ESPN on RUclips: es.pn/SUBSCRIBEtoRUclips
☑️Watch ESPN on RUclips TV: es.pn/RUclipsTV 
Спорт
You can have a big 3 but it has to make sense. Having 3 guys elite at scoring and not much else only works in NBA 2k
And you definitely have to have a PG who can run the offense if you have a big 3 . It doesn't matter if the PG is 1 of the big 3 or not.
Neither in 2k
100% agree. They never should’ve traded for Beal. Him and Booker are too redundant in play styles, not to mention they play the same position
Big 3's work best when built mostly organically. The recent habit of teams tearing apart rosters and assets so they can field 3 stars just makes a paper tiger team that fizzles out after a few years and hurts their long term future.
This is gonna sound stupid...but I think the big 3 of Irving, Durant, and Ben Simmons actually would sound like a good combo on paper and in theory (assuming good health and no drama and playing at their best). The reason I say that is because they all have unique roles and can do multiple things, Kyrie facilitating, Durant pure scoring, and Simmons defense . However, that's just in theory. Obviously the reality was full of issues.
“Paul George is a 2015 thought” …. Thank you Windy 😂
As awful as the Wizards are, that GM bought more time for his job by fleecing the Suns for Bradley Beal 😂
When they initially traded for Beal I thought he waved his No trade clause but when I found out he still had it I lost my mind.
Dumbest choice the suns could have made.
Agree. The last superteam that had a Big 3 (Wizards - with Poole, Shamet, Bagley) finished way below expectations.
Did you just call the wizards a superteam?
Definitely but next year they might be better. Miami Big 3 failed their 1st year as well.
😂😂😂
@@agentcodybanx8909THE superteam
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Legler always with sane takes. Always appreciate having him on the show
Just because u agree with him don't mean the others don't make sense, just because he speaks like you.
Not a prison of the moment
@@george2198 I mean, if you don't think he has the sanest takes, maybe you're just insane with comments like that. I agree with him, Legler has the sanest takes, he's the least bias. Every one of those other guys have a favorite team or player biases when they "analyze"
Legs is right on it. Nuggets have shown that a dynamic duo works well. A dominant big and a very good guard with role players that know their roles and execute.
Like Tim Duncan’s Spurs
Still waiting on those 76ers then. Perhaps they just don’t have a big who is dominant mentally.
Lakers showed it too but got greedy
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
nuggets are a big 3 team. jokic @ 47M, Murray @34M, MPJ @ 33M.
"the other 12 guys are Dollar General" 😂
Lmao
@@sthomas730Lmaoooo
Lmao
Put some Respekt on Dolla General Name! Them boys some Dolla Tree!
*Laughs in ClubShaeShae*
The Big 3 era died once KD, Kyrie, and Harden split. That was easily the most talented big 3 in a very long time, if not ever, and they didn't even get to a Conference Finals.
Bro didn't they have like a 15 game win streak that was so hype?
They were never healthy
Same problem with the Nets carried on to the Suns, they gutted the roster to have a 3-headed snake and now they are facing the same futility that the Nets faced.
Statements like this make my stomach hurt. Y’all leave details out unless it’s your favorite player
Due to injuries
Should be titled " big three who dont play defense doesn't work"
“Big 3s” are done, now you need a “Fast 5”.
Ice Cube, Luda
😂😂true tho
How many good movies they made
Bradley Beal is not a big 3 player. They wasted money on him
Yeah Bradley Beal is not even an all star and you’re paying him outrageous amounts
@@drexelspivey872I agree I would have him come off the bench
Facts , and sadly neither is Paul George nowadays 🤦🏾♂️
@drexelspivey872- With the right group he's still an all star level player. He needs a defensive group around him to be at his best.
Beal or Poole was the only option for the suns. Nobody wanted CP3 or Shamet and I still think that trade wasn’t bad for what options they had to choose from.
They should get CP3 back on the minimum and add Drummond
That’s an easy upgrade for two minimum contract players…
A 2015 thought, exactly. It's over for a lot of these guys. Some sooner than expected I'm sure.
I don’t necessarily think the big 3 era is over, but it has to be the right fit. Booker and Beal are essentially the same player playing the same position and Durant is strictly a scorer at this point. I still find it mind blowing how this team went the whole season without getting a true point guard on the roster. Never should’ve traded for Beal, should’ve gone for a veteran point guard similar to Mike Conley.
It’s over . Teams are too good . Talent is too good
Kd is not strictly a scorer.
He's never going to be elite at play making, rebounding or defending but he's always been good to great at those things. When I say always I mean during his prime.
The issue is the sun's put 3 SG and a slow footed center that can't finish plays together.
Beal, Allen, and booker are all SG.
Nurkic isn't a good center in this League. He's slow footed and can't finish plays 3 feet from the basket.
Switch Nurkic with claxton.
Put 2 long wing defenders like PJ Washington, McDaniels, Murphy.
And have a PG like Caruso and no one called it a Superteam but it's a way better team with KD and booker than what they currently have
Durant always been just a scorer
@@Christopher._Mi dont think I ever seen Durant be good to great at defense or playmaking. Thats why the Suns suffer. Because their superstar not defending and barely could get 5 rebounds in some games.
Dollar General is crazy
If you look at the History of the game, developing a well-balanced team around a complementary duo > going all in to form a big 3 surrounded by minimum vets & rookies
Suns need Tyus Jone if they have cap room.. He is most likely the only affordable PG on the market
That's a perfect fit
Love this topic. Very informative 👌
The big 3 era was over once the Raptors beat the Warriors. The basketball gods spoke that's why all of those guys got hurt. Big names will not be sufficient enough to win a championship anymore.
Tatum, JB and KP just won 64 games
@@jimmyjay689they won in the East, it's not that impressive. Also maybe Tatum is the only one that can be considered a top 10 player
@@jimmyjay689the Celtics are more like lob city, good regular season great cast but for some reason can never get it done
History will read: 2024 NBA Champions Boston Celtics
@@Change4bchris bosh was never top 10, neither was Klay
The problem w/ a big 3 is that someone has to be willing to be Draymond Green. With all of the (mostly deserved) critique he gets, his game has been essential to any success that the Warriors have had in the last decade. You need a guy willing to defend/ facilitate/ do the nitty gritty things that it takes to win in big moments. But he needs to also be ok NOT being the ball dominant guy.
Or a Chris bosh
Or have someone come off the bench like a manu ginobli
Exactly. Even going back to the Celtics Big 3. Ray Allen was cool taking a lessor role. He was getting buckets in Seattle averaging 25 ppg. Granted I dont think the suns Big 3 had an issue with guys not willing to take a step back. I think it was very clear what the pecking order was with Booker #1, KD then Beal. The problem I think for them was lack of leadership. Like Even if KD was cooking he still would stop shooting in the second half. It made no sense. He was 50/40/90 at one point earlier this year and I would watch a game and forget he was even out there.
@@moses0686glad you said it. Aren’t too many all-stars still in their prime willing to sacrifice for the good of the team.
@@jaysouthmusic8230 yup. It’s more mentality than anything. You need a guy who can come off the bench and fit seamlessly with the starters and then run the 2nd unit. Too many players now want the money and status. Not many guys will take a mid tier salary and be undisputed leader of the 2nd unit.
This isn't a failure of a "big 3" roster. This is a failure of management getting the wrong big 3. 3 ISO guys on the floor at the same time means that 2 of them are reduced 2 being spot up shooters while the other is doing his ISO. $40 plus million dollars a year spent on 2 guys who are essentially spot up shooters for one third of the game. Also.....Bradly Beal....The worst contract in the entire league. This team was fine until they made the Beal trade.
I agree, KD needs to stop teaming up with these iso “deep bag” players. He needs to prioritize fit.
I def agree with this. The big 3 has to fit together in some shape or form. I think their biggest mistake was assuming that Book could be a long term PG. If they could’ve gotten a high level facilitator instead of Beal, it probs works out.
Great points windy
KD ruined the BIG 3 Era
Lol what a reach
@@bobbytrilla6733 he’s on his second unsuccessful big three in 3 years…
Facts.
😂😂😂
KD said but what about Bron
Kendrick did 😂
The Celtics have a Big 3 as well - Derrick White, Jalen Brown and Kristaps Porzingis. Oh and they have good role players like Jayson Tatum.
Very disrespectful to Al Horford
Big 3 + DGod +Jrue = chip
😂😂😂😂
I actually like when SAS isn't on. Molly actually gets an input and feels a part of the crew.
Big 3s (or more) that come together quickly in a short span have typically underachieved. When the Rockets brought on Barkley, they failed. When LA added Malone & Payton they failed. The Boston Big 3 was expected to win more than just 1 ring. The LeBron Heat were expected to win way more than 2 rings. When LA added Dwight & Nash they failed miserably. Brooklyn failed miserably. And now the Suns. Aside from that, the Suns' big 3 just sucked, their games don't compliment each other. They have 3 ball-dominant scorers with no depth, no defense, no bigs. People still think Brooklyn would've worked too, but they had the same issue. No bigs, no defense, no depth. Of course, if you have 3 talented players, they're going to figure out how to get some wins, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll win a chip. This is on KD though, he keeps trying to go from superteam to superteam. Trying to build something overnight, these superteams lack chemistry. The only reason it worked for him in GSW was because, he joined them, they were already established, so he was just a plug & play.
Houston didn't fail cuz Barkley, Olajuwon & Drexler weren't good enough, they were too old by then. Even if they beat Utah & made the finals, they weren't beating the Bulls. Jordan & Rodman were the only key players as old as Houston's 3, and those two were ageless wonders. Pippen was 31, Kukoc & Longley were 28. The avg. age for the '97 Jazz was 29.8, Bulls was 30.6. Houston's 8-man rotation avgd. 34 years old.
Not sure if you're like 20 or younger. Malone was 40 when he played w/ that Lakers team and Payton was 35. Boston's big 3 were all in their 30's, plus Garnett missed the '09 playoffs injured. Miami should've beaten Dallas, but they also lost to a great Spurs team w/ an old Duncan, but the other starters' ages avgd. under 27, incl. finals mvp Kawhi. And that L.A. team was old when they added Howard. Nash was 38, Kobe 34, Gasol 32, Artest 33. But I agree w/ yr points on Phoenix losing cuz they have a mediocre defense and no bigs as a threat. It's like adding Harden & Durant together. Two iso players w/ questionable or no defense (JH) who are too wrapped up in themselves.
@@s.scottsdale1839 Did I say they failed because of Barkley? No. My point was, adding more superstars doesn't always work as expected. Not sure if you're 20yrs or younger, but Malone was coming off a great season for a 39yr old, he averaged 20ppg, 5ast, & 8reb, that's probably the 2nd best season ever for a 39yr old just under LeBron. Payton was coming off a 20ppg 8ast season. Aside from them, they still had Kobe & Shaq in their primes! Lmao. That Lakers team was the favorites to be champs, so let's not act like they weren't. Nobody expected Detroit to beat them, they weren't even the favorites to come out the East that year. Malone & GP were older, but they were still Allstar caliber players the season prior to joining LA. And as for the 2012-2013 Lakers, Dwight was the best Center in the NBA at the time & Pau was probably a top 3 PF. You're saying Pau was old, yet he was still an Allstar 2 more times with the Bulls. They had the best Center, the best SG, & a top 3 PF at the time, no excuses as to why they were only a 7th seeded team. Lol
Said this when the trade went down. Trading for Beal was dumb. Jrue Holiday would’ve been an incredibly better fit had PHX just waited a few days & been patient.
Kd should have went to Memphis , played a szn without JA leading the team and next year they both play and become a contender
They forgot to mention the first big 3 ever "the Boston three party" Paul Pierce Kevin Garnett Ray Allen. They also had a young Rondo 💀
Three superstars taking $50 mil each. The rest of their teammates are guaranteed to not be motivated because they are all underpaid and they also get no credit for their contributions whatsoever.
This big three thing is dumb now. Every good team has atleast three really good players. Suns three isn't even in the top 10 in the league right now. It's not just individual talent, other trios are better across league
Good hire!
they told molly be nice to stephen a 😂😂
Nah. Give Curry a big 3 like Giannis/George/KD and the narrative changes. Big 3's only work if the system is suited for them and they are willing to sacrifice for one another.
Beal cant be considered in any big 3. Yall tripping
Now if they would've won everyone would say the team is stacked
The funny thing about is Bron is the one most know for this and at 39 he will likely still try to build another one. Then blame his teammates when it doesnt work. Theres just something different about a team that builds from scratch and add pieces along the way versus a team building a championship level roster overnight. This is why jordan won so many rings. The chemistry was unmatched.
What is Molly talking about? KD should have went to the Knicks? It would have been the same thing. Circumstances outside of the team’s control ruining everything, but it would have been worse because it’s the Knicks
Yall should’ve looked at the Lakers as a precursor to building superteams. 2004 and 2013 specifically. Just because you put a bunch of big names together doesn’t guarantee you a chip. You need the rest of the team to carry our role player expectations to a championship pedigree. The Suns had their big three but did not have a complete basketball team.
You know what's better than "Big 3"? Big 5. Make all the starters work like the best 5 players on their team. With a consistent starting 5 and a solid bench to back them up, you have a competitive team.
Phoenix Suns need sign again CP3 🤔🧐🤨
Also the era of building a super team is over when you look at the teams that have one championships recently being mostly homegrown teams mostly built through the draft- nuggets, warriors, bucks, raptors going back to mavs and spurs and pistons... just a few super teams have won championships in recent years, 2020 Lakers, cavs, big 3 miami heat, big 3 celtics
Almost of the teams you listen are lead by LeBron James which makes all the difference.
The teams structure of nba basketball has changed and the teams who figure it out and why will be front and center in the future of the game
Possible Big 3s at present: Brunson-Hart-DiVincenzo (NYK); SGA-Holmgren-Giddey (OKC);
"You got 3 max guys and you got the other 12 guys at Dollar General.." exactly how the Suns roster this year was built...
A Draymond, Ben Simmons type versatile defender/ball handler would work wonders. But who comes with that talent at a budget. Along with a stretch bruiser big.
The "Big 3" in BK with KD, Kyrie, and Harden showed us that names aren't enough; especially if they're all ball dominant. Duo's are more effective, especially for cap space to fill out the bench for quality depth. Perfect example, 2011 Mavericks.
What? That team was just injured.
You just want to talk narratives
stephen a. said phoenix would be sooo good, now kd is the problem, because he "looks" unhappy and does not talk to his coach. i am pretty sure kd always looks the same and doesnt talk much.
They could be if the 3 players actually balanced the roster properly. Giannis, KD, Shai + competent role players would destroy teams. The problem is big 3's are big 3 in price tag only and not big as in 3 legit superstars.
Of course Molly derails the conversation with something unrelated that's completely wrong
Most title teams have 2 max contract superstars and a 3rd guy who is all star level but usually making half a max contract salary which allows to fill out role players with quality players = title team
Wow. This show has actually been watchable today.
Yooo, “dollar general”? 😂😂😂😂
I know it’s hard but to have a big 3 to work you will have to build it in the draft if possible because if you sign or trade for 3 max players you have no cap space to get other good players,,or you have to get your big 3 to take a crazy pay cut to sign other players
The league needs to bring back true points guards to set up and offense
suns problem is that their big 3 are all wing players that don't defend.
“ that is a 2015 thought “ bingo
People forget that Defense is still essential
Of course a 'big three' team can work and work very well. But for it to sustain itself to live up to the expectations they need to start in their prime; at least the last 2-3 years of it. In Boston, all 3 guys were 30-32 before they were brought together, which is different than in Miami w/ James/Wade/Bosh. Boston likely makes 3 straight finals w/ a healthy Garnett in '09. But imagine if they joined up when they were all around 26-29 like Miami? They may have made 4 finals. Those guys had great chemistry, which is also necessary.
Big 3 still works today’s. How?
First the big 3’s must in there prime .
Second lower the ego
Third no same position
Fourth a additional good role player.
Last dont change roaster they must perfect there chemistry exmple denver.
I agree
A Big Three only works if one of those guys is a defensive specialist.
Jordan, Pippen, Rodman.
Steph, Klay, Draymond.
That's true, you only need two superstars and good support players or one superstar and a star. Three SSs take up too much oxygen in terms of depleting the salary structure which makes it hard to get good support players. Also, superstars like the ones on the Clippers where you have them in the same position Kawai and George don't make sense, as their failures demonstrate.
2.5. One superstar, one Robin. One utility two-way all defensive enforcer. The more things change the more things stay the same.
2 shooting guards was never a good idea
And it's building a team. Not trying to throw all stars together
The issue with this big 3 is normally, REALLY good role players will come and play for a minimum. No one came to sign up and help this big 3. Can't win with 3-5 players, need a bench.
Big 3 works if 2 of those guys can play good defense.
KD probably gonna ask for a trade to Mavericks in 2025 😂
Big 3 could still work, but they can't overlap. 1 guard, 1 forward, and a center. Look at how many teams are failing with 2 star guards rn
It's always been about TEAM COMPOSITION, Bridges was a good fit next to booker because he played good defence. Suns went all offense but then hired a defensive coach, just dumb decisions all around.
That’s simply too broad of a statement. It depends what contracts they are on. If you drafted two or three of them and they’re still young, that makes it much more possible. But if they came in free agency or blockbuster trades with giant contracts, you’re going to have a depth problem. Also helps if they hit superstardom *after* their most recent contract eg SGA and Brunson.
You need rebounds assists blocks and steals not just scoring
They don’t ever let Windy get his full thought out and Molly just cutting everybody off in general
These days, it seems like intelligent roster construction and team culture are more important than amassing star players. It's exactly how it should be.
Literally when they brought in Tobias Harris they said that this was a PG-lite, and he would shine and be perfect in Philly. PG is now 35 years old. He isn't getting any better, faster, or stronger. This would be an absolutely horrible move for Philly.
Just wait till the dynamic duo era is over.
He back in the same spot he ran from 🎯
Wow Shannon picked em to win a title but now he never saw them winning a chip lmfao
Phoenix should trade booker and jusuf for AD and Reeves. Phoenix fixes their defensive issues and the lakers solve their scoring problem.
The only thing KD can do to save his legacy is rejoin Steph. Become known as the greatest duo ever. Win 1 or 2 more together
Your stars need to have skills that compliment or are different than your other stars. Having 3 scorers when the best one (KD) is your best defender won’t work. Being in a big 3 always exposes your game. You get less shots and less touches so how are you going to contribute?
The concept of the "Big 3" was largely a media creation, designed to counter criticisms of LeBron James forming superteams in Miami and Cleveland with three 25+ PPG max players. This narrative suggested that a Big 3 was necessary to win championships. However, even within those teams, players like Kevin Love and Chris Bosh often had to take a back seat due to the limited number of scoring opportunities in a game. In reality, only a few true Big 3 teams have won titles, such as the Boston Celtics, Miami Heat, and Cleveland Cavaliers. While the media tried to include Golden State in this category, knowledgeable basketball fans recognize that neither Draymond Green nor Klay Thompson could single-handedly carry a team to anywhere besides the lottery.
This is in correct. You have to have a home grown big three. When you have to trade for a big three, you give up to many assets. The suns gave up to many assets. If OKC of Shai, Williams and Chet becomes a big, that would work great.
Big 3s can work but first of all you can't have 2 shooting guards in your big 3 and you need an actual facilitator like the Brooklyn Big 3 having Harden as their point guard and facilitator. And you actually need depth the Nets big 3 had Caris Lavert, Aldridge, Jeff Green, Joe Harris, Jarrett Allen, Blake Griffin, Spencer Dinwiddie and Nic Claxton all providing depth for the squad which is why they still performed well despite the Nets Big 3 only playing 16 games all together in all of their seasons. And having 2 way players would help a lot like if San Antonio had a big 3 of Wemby, Trae Young and Brandon Ingram. You'd have both Wemby and BI who can play defense and you'd have elite scoring on all 3 levels. Unlike the Suns who's big 3 all favour the mid range creating an overlap in their abilities.
How can you say that when there are mulitple now trying to win... and the 76ers and Lakers are both trying to get a big 3 together 😂
Bron too!
Huge mistake by mangement trading Ayton & Bridges. Trading draft picks with finals experience and under 25. This what happens when management listens to media too much
Bruh it’s been known since the Raptors chip in 2019. It’s all about a Superstar, a star and some good pieces around them. Or at least 2 superstars and great pieces around them.
Lakers, Bucks, Warriors, Nuggets all the similar cases. Superteams are not dead, they just have a different shape and meaning.
The best thing you can have on your team right now is durable consistent players. More than half the league is injury prone players.
The issue is this isn't even a big three.
Beal isn't a top 30 player. He's closer to 70 than 30.
The rest of the issue is the Gm who build the roster around them
The NBA is making a major mistake by leaving Warner (TNT ) for NBC, inside the NBA makes boring unwatchable games tolerable.
And they won't have Marv Albert. His signature voice made NBA on NBC during it's run.
Oh yeah? Having three really good players is out, now? Another classic ESPN take, hard to believe they give this kind of wisdom away for free.
I can name few players who are tired of playing basketball & just there because of the Big salay. KD, AD, Bradly Beal, Jimmy Butler, Kawhi,
lol Kd and butler are hoopers. idk about the rest.
Jimmy Butler? What are you talking about?
Ben Simmons
Also misused apostrophes! 😄
When a team has 2 good players in the starting 5 and 3 other players who know their role, plus good bench players. A team can succeed. Getting players who have history of being big scores and injury prone will only be negative. Booker and Durant were enough, of course with players who not only can play, but understand their roles. Just my opinion.
I would say that the era of Big 3s coming together through trade/free agency is over. But we still might see Big 3s forming organically. The Thunder have a future Big 3 in the making with Shai, JDub, amd Chet. If you wanna consider the Nuggets a Big 3, same with them. And even that might become to keep together as they get better and the new cba rules are in effect. In this new cba era the best way to build your team is to have have two superstar level players(or one superstar level player and one star/borderline superstar) level player that complement each other and a bunch of role players that complement those superstar level players
SAS sources: Himself
The only one I’m rooting for is coach bud..he’s a great coach that went through a lot personally that didn’t deserve to be fired in Milwaukee as u see they haven’t done nothing since he left and been through 2 coaches since.
There is a great number of good players these days so putting most of your cap in three guys doesn’t make sense anymore. A deeper team with chemistry or money ball type tactic will work better.
You need twelve people that play as a team. The NBA should incorporate NHL type of substitutions to minimize fatigue and injuries.