Steyr 1893 Gas-Seal Trials Revolver
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- / forgottenweapons
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.bbtv.com/c...
Today we are looking at a pair of Steyr 1893 trials revolvers. Only about 100 of these were made, primarily for Austro-Hungarian military trials. These two are early pattern examples, with Pieper-type gas seal systems in which the cylinder is cammed forward upon firing and an extra-long cartridge case bridges the gas between cylinder and barrel. This slightly increases muzzle velocity by eliminating the gas leak at the cylinder gap, but it does so at the cost of extra complexity and a very poor trigger pull.
In addition to that system, the Steyr 1893 features a tip-out cylinder and central ejector, which would make reloading quite rapid for the time. It held 7 rounds of 8mm ammunition (a gas-seal 8mm cartridge). A later version of the gun replaced this with a fixed cylinder and an Abadie loading gate system. Neither of these would be adopted, and the Rast & Gasser model 1898 would be chosen instead.
Interestingly, one of these two revolvers has a Nazi-era German civilian proof on the cylinder, suggesting that it was sold on the commercial market in Germany during that time, and thus required proofing. The majority of these revolvers have no proofs, as they were never sold commercially by Steyr.
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
PO Box 87647
Tucson, AZ 85754
Actually in 1938 they imported the whole Austria into Germany.
lol, you made my day sir
Nice! I'm from Steyr and actually the whole country just surrendered and you can feel the shame of cowardice ever since.
+Emanuel Schwarz I currently live in Vienna, and I always find it hilarious when austrians neglect all responsibility in WW2 an try to portray themselves as "the first victim" of the third reich. I know that at in 1938 not everybody in austria regarded the Wiederanschluss as a good thing, but the overwhelming majority of the population basically invited the nazis into their country
@@Vindettaable I'm from Tyrol, and I concur that we joined and participated out of conviction. We had wanted a union with Germany since 1918. After the end of the Habsburg and Hohenzollern dysnasties, there was no reason to not unify like was meant to happen in the 'Greater German Solution'. Only the Versailles and Saint Germain treaties prevented a unification with Weimar Germany (or Germany would have rejected Austria's bid, we'll never know). Many of the highest ranking officers in the SS and SA were Austrians, Kaltenbrunner is just as an example. Mauthausen wasn't staffed by only German nationals. My grandfather came 'home into the Reich' in the exodus of Germans Hitler and Mussolini agreed upon, from South Tyrol to North Tyrol. We still have the 'South Tyrolean housing' that was built for them in North Tyrol. He was later a Waffen SS soldier fighting in Russia. Nazism affected all German speakers with exception of the Swiss. You think Sudetengermans didn't want to be annexed? Or Danzig? How about Alsace? The 'first victim myth' was created by the Allies in Yalta, after the war we oppurtunisticly latched onto it and, as a result, denazification in Austria was very limited. Former Nazis made it into high office like Kurt Waldheim. Austria is just as guilty or innocent as Germany. We are just fuckung hypocrits. /rant
after assassinating the chancellor of Austria Dollfuss (with a Steyr M1908 pistol)
That hammer looks like a bird. Once you see it you cant unsee it.
in 50 cal it would be the "Big Bird"
Looks like a cheeky chicken, heh
DARN IT! I read your comment before watching the video, and all I can see now is the head of a bird pecking.
Bok bok.
Stop it! ;-)
With as popular suppressors have become and how many hunt with big bore revolvers, I'm surprised nobody has made something modern with this design in mind
Whoever puts 2 and 2 together and redesigns / modernize this with a factory threaded barrel , covered hammer ( even thin light metal or composite non-rotating sides of cylinder covers ) so it does not get fowled by clothing in a pocket or bag, ( but maybe thumb cocking capable like those CCW 2inch S&W models or a HK P9S so you can do long range shots ) and maybe a full length casing over the bullet ( like the intended .30 Nagant round for this gun ) in lets say subsonic .38 would be rich if they put it in production.
I would call it the " Hitman " . Second amendment people.
Judging by what Ian said these gas seal revolvers have pretty bad triggers. I assume (I don't shoot nor hunt) that hunting requires absolute precision and something close to a hair trigger, which goes against the design.
@@Arthurzeiro Maybe if they redesign the mechanism to be SAO, so that the job of camming the cylinder is done when you cock the hammer, and the trigger can be made lighter and cleaner.
But yeah, I'm with Hail to The_Rooster, I think this concept can make for an awesome commercial revolver, and maybe even a revolving carbine???
There have been some Dan Wesson revolvers converted to have a gas sealing cylinder and integral suppression. They were small caliber though. Honestly, trying to re-engineer a revolver to be sealed for suppression in a powerful hunting caliber is probably never going to be a great success. It's a limited market, the product would be very much premium priced, with the additional tax for the can, and most people will not go for the proprietary ammo that it would probably need to use. And just that the other type of actions are inherently more suitable, so it would mainly be a cool factor because it's different.
As a fan of impractical things, it would be very interesting to see a suppressor that could handle the 454 Casull. Like welding a septic tank filled with steel wool to the muzzle.
To the guy running this channel:
Probably one of the best RUclips channels I've ever had the pleasure subscribing to. Greetings from across the great pond, from Germany.
His name is Ian or Gun Jesus :D
The collar around the v-spring... One of those things you never think of but seems so obvious once you see it.
Real men don't need no spring collar! You pinch that sucker out
Looks convenient but it also looks like a stupid idea. What keeps it from engaging in the middle of a fire fight?
@@jayzenitram9621 The ring has its own slot cut into wooden handleplates (seen at 5:45).
@@jayzenitram9621 Gravity too.
That straw Temper finish looks great against the blue... I'm impressed that it's managed to last all this time without losing any of it's lustre, especially since it's evident on both examples you have
Have there been any other guns that you've encountered that had a similar treatment? or has this been the only one so far?
The French 1882 revolver has strawed internal components. There are some others but I'm blanking on their names.
The CZ27 has some strawed parts on it, like the hammer and trigger.
The Luger is one that comes to mind. It has some of the minor parts with straw finish.
"I carried an 8mm Austrian army revolver in my belt, which was the style at the time..."
Is that an Abe Simpson reference? How odd.
John Meyer was going to say the same lmao
back then these cost 5 pfennigs. of course, in those days the pfennig had an image of a bumblebee on the face. "5 bees for that revolver", you'd say...
Back in Nineteendicketytwo
@@arachnonixon Can someone please enlighten me what quotes are being mentioned here? Is it some historical book?
Steyr created many innovative designs but none of them are being credited. This revolver and the m1912 put together lots of ideas that are ahead of their time.
@ 5:49 Ian mistakenly says right grip panel instead of left grip panel because everything is opposite for those weird humans we call lefties lol.
That fireplace again.
Nitre bluing will leave some heat treated parts (and some alloys of steel)straw-colored. As it is a more delicate finish than traditional bluing, it will wear off more quickly and does not protect the metal as well. It was very common for old gun makers to nitre blue the small parts of guns, often giving them a bright blue, purple, or gold finish (this is why lugers often have straw small parts). At the same time, the temperatures used for nitre bluing align with the tempering temperatures for springs, hence why many extractor springs are blue or purple- it was more efficient to blue and temper in one process. I would imagine that "strawed" parts were nitre blued.
Beautiful pair of revolvers.
Stunning finish, metalwork can be beautiful without engraving.
With the obvious downsides of that design it amazes me that when Steyr tried to fix it they went backwards with an Abadie gate. It's also bizarre that Austria, the country that was leading the world in automatic pistol development, eventually chose an extremely Conservative revolver.
A little bit of Good Enough for me by the Generals in charge of procurment I expect, plus cost. Though the quality of Steyers work is just drool worthy.
@@51WCDodge,
It truly is a work of art.....
Austrian military officials have been notoriously conservative and incompetetent for centuries. That's the reason.
Not only our military officials. @@felixh2786
Your tip on " Handguns of the World" a while back was fantastic! My copy finally arrived after a month in transit, definitely the most bang for the buck for that sort of book.
The second revolver i know that can be properly suppressed . The other is the Nagant revolver. Cool for a Hitman.
@Lassi Kinnunen Or take out you ex-wife / ex-husband or the lawyer that made you lose millions.
Cool for the dirty police in Magnum Force.
The Pieper 1893 can also do this, it was used by the Mexican military
@@toomanyaccounts i will be goggle searching this, good looking out A+
@@sethmoyer you got it...
beautiful revolver
The gas seal helps negate black powder fouling of the mechinism from the cylinder gap.
Also allows this to be shot with a suppressor and be quiet A+
I presume these models used smokeless powder like the rast-gasser that it competed with
@@s.h.v.c2865 there was still a lot of black powder in use at the time and the specifications for the Russian 1895 Nagant called for it to work with black powder even though it was only loaded with smokeless
Also if you're directly interfacing the chamber and forcing cone, a lot of the precision needed in cylinder timing isn't required. Stick it right in there, it's (within reason) self aligning.
Thank you for enlightening me, I didn't know that. Can see how that'd help with black powder to get more energy.
I'm impressed. Nagant did not offer a gas seal revolver with a swing out cylinder until nearly 20 years later in 1912.
Ian, no one but you remembers things like that, that's why we love and watch your channels...
Gun Jesus, with all due respect that gun has a swing out cylinder that works well and that makes it a ten times better gun than a Russian/Soviet Nagant, at least in my opinion.
I love how they made the cylinder.
Revolvers were indeed my first love! My first job on the PD we were issued the Model 19 S&W, a lovely little revolver, then on to the Model 66 which was just a M19 in stainless, and so on, my favorite was a Python that I purchased myself, she was great, almost as smooth as my Diamondback alas, I sold them all in search of a good semi-auto.
Thank you Ian .
Indeed very beautifully finished revolvers! One can Just really appreciate the way these guns were made a hundred years ago.
Even if they may not have been the best tools for the job back then...
Damn good looking gun.
Fun fact, the 1895 Nagant it's not the only gas sealed revolver.
The 1893 Henri Pieper also could do the same thing, it even competed against the Nagant during the russian trials, but was not chosen beacuse "too expensive" compared to the nagant, but most importantly, too quick to reload!
Old style doctrine of "I don't want people to waste ammunition, plus this is a defensive weapon, you soldier don't need a quick reload sistem".
If the swing-out system was faster than the Abadie loading gate system, why switch to the slower system in the next iteration of the revolver? Was it simpler or cheaper to manufacture, or was it just politics of some kind?
The Abadie was simpler, cheaper, and resulted in a stronger overall design. And faster shooting wasn't really a priority for militaries at that point in time. This was still in the age of officer-led firing lines.
Probably all three in part. That and fine though the Steyers are, would it work up a mountain at midnight when you're cold wet tired scared and dirty?
Have a look at C&Rsenal vid on the Rast & Gasser. Othias mentions that ocassionaly the star on the swing out fould with residue, and the Austrians were paranoid about reliability,
To hell with reliability. I’ll take a quick reload instead any day
I still love the name Rast & Gasser, just so oddball to say
Thanks Ian.
I would love to have those in a display case. With one partially dissassembled. What a pair.
Wow i didn't know that Steyr made revolvers. Thanks for showing theses revolvers Ian an the knowledge Sir
Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser
Has any company ever made a rifle or carbine with the nagant style gas seal? I know that "revolver" rifles were never very popular because of the cylinder gap causing the shooter to burn themselves when they fired unless they held the rifle in a very specific way, or had thick heavy sleeves, and that's something that using a gas seal like this would fix.
A Belgium company, Henri Pieper & Co., made a gas seal revolver carbine, the Pieper M1893.
An 8mm weapon it had a 9 round cylinder and a double action mechanism. 350 were bought by the Mexican Rurales.
That's a sharp looking gun.
Another entertaining video! Thanks Gun Jesus!
I'd love to have that gun. It's absolutely beautiful!!
Hey Ian do know anything about the mauser HSC 380 acp super I can't find much about it online nobody has a video on it. I bought it on gunbroker nice gun mint condition but it doesn't have a slide release like my walthers or my 1911s , from what I can tell, the slide only goes forward when you insert the magazine.
I had one and I hated that feature with the mag. It also won't fire without the mag in it if I remember correctly. I think they were imported by Interarms in the 1980s. I traded it off years ago. Kinda chunky and funky for my taste but they are double action and the .380 is more powerful than the original .32 ACP.
Ever since I've watched the video of the Austrian Museum of Military History on these I was wondering when Ian will get his hands on the revolvers. Looks like he finally did!
Looks sooooo minty!
Any idea if this influenced, or was influenced by, the Nagant? Or was it a case of coincidental simultaneous development?
The Nagant Revolver came out in 1895, so technically this came first. Having some sort of gas seal on a revolver is a concept people keep coming to over & over and except in the case of the nagant it really never catches on.
It is directly related to the Nagant, since the designer of the system was involved in the development of the Nagant.
I would not mind having one of those though, had they gone into production, very nice looking and I bet they shot well in single action.
I have one of these made in Belgium though,which has nickel plated finish and the same design as Austrian M1893!A real blast to shoot but you can either forget about the gas seal system and fire it with anything like .327 magnum or any of it's predecessors,which fit the chamber perfectly(although I would recommend using lighter bullets and probably reduced loads in case of .327 magnum-I just use the 71 grain FMJ from .32acp and make those fly at about 1700fps)-but if you want a gas seal..You either buy Remington-UMC ammo for exorbitant price-and damn,good luck finding those anywhere,or you will have to make brass yourself!
Why are the cuts in the cylinder so deep?
No boxing day mystery pistols? Aww
polygondwanaland, What like a pistol carried by Mike Tyson? 🤣
@@paulshayter1113 boxing day is the day after christmas day
polygondwanaland, Yeah I know, hence the laughing emoji.
hello, it would be amazing if you could make a video about the Mexican H. Pieper Patent Model 1893 Double Action Revolver.
OMG soooo beautiful revolver would love to have one under my pillow
And you keep it coming :)
Loverly tooling
A revolver video? Christmas has come early! [checks calendar] Shit.
Just this weekend I found myself wondering if there were any other revolvers with a nagant style gas seal. It's nice to get a prompt response.
Hi Ian, love your videos, ever considered doing a video on the Ruger Standard series of rimfire pistols?
Such a pretty look revolver....
Ian, have you ever thought about doing a video or two that just covers your unanswered questions about firearms history and development? It would be really cool to hear from a guy who has obviously put a lot of thought into this very specific historical interest comment on what to him are still unanswered questions...
Imagine being in a situation where you needed to fire it upside down or with the muzzle pointed straight down, and finding out your cocked hammer doesn't drop because that fancy little ring slid over the mainspring!
The grip panel prevents the ring from moving in that way when it's installed.
Ah, that makes sense.
svtirefire Go to 5:45 to see the cut-out in the grip.
I would think that the spring ring used for disassembly could disable the mechanism if the gun was cocked and pointed in a downward Direction
If you freeze the video @5:45, you can see there is a cutout in the left grip plate that would hold that thing in a fixed position when the gun is fully assembled.
Ian, you skipped the breech lock system. (You did that with the 1895 Nagant too, even though they're different.) How does the steyr 1893 lock up the breech? Does it do it like a rolling block? Because it looks like it. These revolvers are brilliant and you don't seem to give credit.
I want one I love steyr weapons
How do you educate yourself enough to know this mutch about weapons? Ps. Really love your channel and how mutch you upload
I know it would negate any benefits from the gas seal but could you use french 8mm lebel in these, in theory at least?
Ian, I know to mostly take suggestions from paetron, but could you consider doing a video on the s&w victory revolver and or colt commando of WWII?
I expected more. Just finding another nagant sure was disappointing, at least the brass looks neat.
Lovin the German speaking themed Christmas special.
6:33 *DUDE* what prevents that sliding up and jamming the gun if you point it down???
Now I'm confused. Did the Gast revolver that beat these out have a swing out cylinder? Seems like too good an idea to drop.
No, solid frame with a loading gate. It had an eight shot cylinder.
unusual looking scallops on cylinder ...
Ian, when did people start using plastic shotgun shells? And what did they use before?
I first saw them in the 60's. Waxed cardboard was used before that, and the first cartridge shotguns used solid brass reloadable shells.
@@dbmail545 wax cardboard or even paper was used back in the day way before copper brass shell existed on naval shotgun model in 1800s. the plastic shells existed in the 60s with the remington, and it stuck ever since.
I've got a bunch of 20 gauge made by "Activ" and the whole shell is plastic,including the base and rim.
@@JohnLeePedimore those are usually water proof shells
Oliver Sacks-Kilback not sure when plastic first came in, but paper cartridges were still common in the UK in the 80s
The trigger looks like a bird... Duck on The left and rooster in the right.
*Hammer.
Gun Jesus is a beast love from Texas y’all!!!
Fabreek, not fabrick :)
Beautiful gun!
Is trigger better than on Nagant 1895? What do you choose Nagant or gasser/Pieper 1893?
Yes, I want so bad. I’ll trade you one safe of guns for the pair, three to choose from, you can even pick too. Take the safe with as well.
I wonder if a gas sealing system be more feasible in a lever-action revolver carbine, since there's more force available to move the cylinder back and forth rather than relying on a heavier trigger pull.
Have you checked out the old video on the North & Skinner Revolving Rifle? Also the Needham repeater is an interesting invention to read up on, though it relied on tolerances and an expanding cartridge to achieve the seal, not a moving cylinder.
More about straw bluing please.
I find it interesting that all this work went into designing a special gas seal revolver just so their anemic ammo could get a minuscule amount of extra velocity. They would have been better off just making the barrel slightly longer, or better yet, chambering the gun in a more powerful round.
The original Nagant round was about 10% more powerfull that a 38special, so not so anemic
@@salvadorsempere1701 The 38 special is not exactly a powerhouse of a round. It's outclassed by even 9mm by a significant degree. (9mm is 32% more powerful than 7.62 Nagant, and some +p loads are 69% more powerful than 7.62 Nagant). Many people consider 9mm to be the minimum for a self defense cartridge. It also has two major advantages over the 7.62 Nagant. 1. It's a larger, heavier bullet. 2. It is not restricted to FMJ. That little 32 caliber FMJ that the Nagant uses is not what I would consider a man stopper. It might do some damage, but I think most would feel under gunned if they were forced to use that during combat. That's why I consider it anemic. It's not just the energy levels, it's the design of the bullet itself.
May be you must remember the date. 1895. The round it´s more powerfull that the French, Austrian, German, USS, Japan or Uk rounds of the day.
And all rounds must be FMJ, unless you want that all your soldiers that surrender himself would be hanged by the enemy. Militar round, Hage convention an all this stuff..
@@salvadorsempere1701 I think you might have misunderstood the point I was making. Yes, you are correct that the round was on par if not slightly better than the standard rounds of the time. The ammo the other countries were using at that time doesn't change the ballistics of the 7.62 Nagant. A 32 ACP is more powerful than a 25 ACP, but both are still considered anemic by most people. During that period in history, there was a trend of countries using low powered rounds. There's a reason pretty much every one of them changed to more powerful rounds like the 45 acp, the 9mm, and the 7.62 Tokarev. In the case of FMJ, the fact that countries were restricted to using them for their armies was a determent to the effectiveness of the 7.62 Nagant. Basically what those requirements created was a small caliber round that will not expand much if any, and that does not have the raw speed and mass required to create a powerful enough hydrostatic shock to reliably incapacitate an enemy combatant unless a major organ such as the brain or heart is hit directly.
For the time, the 7.62 Nagant was on par for what other countries used. It was still anemic though and still is. I own an 1895 Nagant and have shot surplus ammo out of it. I was not impressed with the gun's ability as a combat tool, and I was not impressed with the round's power. The TT-33 in 7.62 Tokarev was a better fighting gun in pretty much every way. I own one of those too.
Looks like s steampunk version of the Mauser
Have you done a review on the colt single action army?
Why did they choose seven shots same thing in the nagant revolver
Size of the bullets.
8mm is quite a large round.
You have to have plenty of metal around each cylinder because it is the chamber.
Remember metallurgy was not as advanced as it is today. The weapons had to pass proof testing with overpowered loads.
More bullets would mean more weight. This thing alresdy lookd like it weighs a lot.
Probably extremrly few handgun hunters in those days. This was meant to be an EDC for someone.
Thank you gun Jesus
Ian, is there anything on the side plate that prevents that spring ring from sliding forward when gun is cocked and held/shaken muzzle down? It seems to me to be a major design flaw if there isn't anything like that.
There is a slot cut into the wooden lefthand side grip panel, preventing the ring from moving around unintentionally when the gun is assembled (seen at 5:45).
What is that thing screwed to the frame below the cylinder on the right side of the pistol?
Cool
h&k 19mm efl
This is what the Nagant Revolver should have been.
What is the bar for on the right and side of the revolver under the cylinder
I can just see somebody cocking one, and pointing it down to shoot a snake. And then that little spring retention ring slides down to disable the piece.
If you freeze the video @5:45, you can see there is a cutout in the left grip plate that would hold that thing in a fixed position when the gun is fully assembled.
@@SolyomSzava Thank you! I didn't notice that.
At least you can reload this one like a normal revolver, unlike our other well known pain in the ass to reload friend...
So, a knockov of the Nagant revolver?
No shooting video of the G11?
My thought as well. Probably no existing ammunition. Just dummy cartridges.
@@dbmail545 That's why...
AFAIK, the ammunition didn´t age well...
Also, would you like to shoot a gun, where only one dozen working examples still exist and possibly damage it with dubious ammunition?
Don´t forget: the bullet is inside the propellant. Thus even a minor change in angle will prevent it from feeding well and we aren´t talking about feeding by a spring, but by a exploding primer!
In total they made about 100....so I have 2 to show you
Can I put a suppressor on it?;)
Hmmmm... i always though the Russian Nagant was the only gas thight revolver and therefore in therory capable of taking a supressor. The more you know.
hope this revolver be added in RDR2 Online alongside with Nagant revolver
Totally read that as r2d2 at first
How challenging would it be to make a gas sealed revolver with a non proprietary cartridge?
Any ammo company could make them easy enough, but they wouldn't work with any other type of gun due to the shell casing extending past the end of the bullet
@@mgelliott86 i know what you mean but. Im talking about a 357 gas sealed revolver, or a 38 special, you know, normal stuff. I would totally go for it if there ever a modern reincarnation.
Oh, how I heard the Nagant was terrible in hands...
I have a buddy with the nagant, his only criticism is how expensive the ammo is compared to other guns
mgelliott86 One of the few that I don’t reload for. Although I think there are dies and videos on it.
I am from Austria
Me too.
@ cool
Me too ! 😊 - 🙁 - 😞. No, its a lie. I'm from Tennessee.
Ahhhhh Vienna This means nothing to me!
Is Ian pronuncing Steyr correctly? I think it shoudl be more like Shteyyr rathenr than Stayer...
Boy, that little ring around the spring is really convenient but a horrible idea. There appears to be nothing preventing it from engaging at an inopportune moment.
So basically a discount Nagant M1895
Doubt there would be much discount on that quality of work. More likley an upmarket polished idea of the concept.
Judging by the fact that it’s a Steyr produced revolver, it’s definitely not a discount Nagant M1895. Those Nagant revolvers are pretty rough and gritty compared to this.
3:10 Adolf imported them into Germany on 12.03.1938.
Maybe do a little Battlefield 5 vid? please.
Why would they change to a slower reloading system?
do not shoot it upside down
Y
To hit, or not to hit. Dost thou ever hit?? I suppose it not. You have a male love interest, yet I would wager he does not hit thee (Ye olde pow). Furthermore; he will fire another firearm like he won't miss thee. And at the end of it all, he is going to skrrt, and he will hit that target, as if he were the man known by the name of Ian McCollum