As a human geographer who studied climate change in the early 90s, and who has tried to educate people since then, sometimes it can seem a bit of an uphill struggle. I am generally an optimist and believe we can engineer our way using science to a better future, but in times of less optimism, videos like this keep me leaning towards the positive. Well researched material and presented in a very level headed manner. Keep up the great work.
I wish I could share your optimism but in my life we haven’t made any real progress to replace a meaningful percentage of our energy production and in my opinion focusing our energies on toys instead of real engineering solutions.
molten salt nuclear. lithium carboxide alginate CNT graphene glass solid state batteries. sulfur dioxide pump. silica spheres for the permafrost. marine permaculture arrays. biochar terra pretta and paddledock grazing and refusing to use the haber bosch process for manufacture of synthetic ammonia fertilizer, arguably the most damaging thing to the planet bar none. Also possibly plasma arc vaporization of waste streams. reforestation(the miyawaki aforestation protocol). aquaponics? ppl say the food tastes like shit oh well, also point source carbon capture membranes for coal plant smoke stacks(made of graphene). also generally refusing to vote for fuckheads is good.
Its will take as much fossil fuels as can get our hands on, to replace fossil fuels. Fossils aren't going anywhere soon in energy production or transportation. The money isn't there without destroying the worlds economies while doing it. Mandating such change will only slow it down and cause economic shrinkage.
Here in the USA, we enjoy relatively low electricity costs. Our national average rate is about $.10 US per kilowatt hour. Batteries are very expensive, by comparison. It costs about $.08-$.10 US to maintain any kind of battery, which is a break-even for most of the country. Behind the meter storage makes sense for home owners, because the batteries only have to compete with retail rates. In some parts of our country, the rates are double, or perhaps close to triple the national average. For people living in those states, home batteries make the most sense, and, are the biggest markets for the technology. As electricity becomes more expensive everywhere else, and the cost of batteries, as well as other components (inverters and solar panels) come down, you will start to see a wide spread adoption of the technology. In many other countries, it's already less expensive to go solar and battery, than to pay rate. More and more places in the USA are reaching that "crossover point".
Thanks for taking the time to put these videos out and for all the major content. I know it still seems to be an uphill battle. in the US at least, but at some point I think we will join and make the contribution we should.
Hi Sasquatch2001. All good points. We'll try to get to all of them in programs over the coming months. My view is we need to be pursuing every possible option as diligently and quickly as possible.
Solar, wind, renewables and storage are great ideas. The sobering thing is looking at just what gap we are trying to fill. The UK consumes between 25GW and 40GW currently depending on time of year. Main grid renewables contribute as much as 50% of that on a good day and as little as 5% on a bad day. Localised domestic solar is harder to judge, but any locally generated solar is already accounted for in the 25-40GW figure as the grid demand reduction. So to hit that milestone 100% from renewables "on a good day" we need to double the amount of them we have. Still we won't have capacity to charge anything from renewables as 100% of the renewable energy would be consumed on such a day. To get to charging grid storage we need to over generate. For sizing solar arrays, for example, a quick estimation is to multiple the base load by 10. For your storage array you want to be looking at 10 days of your base load. Even if wind in the UK is twice as good as solar then it needs sized by a factor of 5. So to meet demand even intermittently we need to double the size of renewables and to move to renewables 100% with grid storage we need 20 times more solar and 10 times more wind. And batteries totally about 350GWh. This is already sounding daunting, expensive and barely conceivable if you consider the scale and costs involved. But, we haven't even started yet. When we convert our cars to run on grid electric, they will nearly double our current consumption! Having most of the cars in the UK come home at 6pm and connect to a 3kW charger amounts to another 30-40GW power draw! Then we need to consider converting our fossil fuel home heating to electric. Even if we make all of that heat exchanger heating it will still add a massive 20-40GW power draw (particularly in winter). So those estimates for expanding our solar and wind by factors of 20 and 10 now get multipled by another factor of 4 to go from a 25-40GW grid consumption to more like 100GW-150GW consumption. So we need around 80 times more solar and 40 times more wind. Unfortunately there isn't enough land, money or resources to provide that in the UK. www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
It is interesting to read this comment five years later. Had I seen this channel in 2019, I would have agreed with nearly all that you say. But to read in The Economist (22 June, 2024) now, I see that the UK is well on its way to meeting your projections. Even three years ago I was skeptical of electric cars, now I own one. Similarly I felt that PV and battery storage systems would never be viable for working class folks. But soon my own system will be finished and I will be charging my car with it.
Love the show. In the US, you are right that renewable infrastructure is being stunted by lobbying by traditional legacy infrastructure companies. Even where one has a choice of selecting generation, there is very little advertisement of the choice to the public. I learned of the option of renewable v. Traditional power generation selection via word of mouth rather than direct contact from my power company. The US like to point out how regressive other countries are in all sorts of areas but it is easier to see the regressive nature of our politics, policies and industries in the US.
What happens when the cells boil dry or spoiled. What is the replacement for your system, mate. Mine did a two year life span with three day look at them, I had ten boil out or dry cells over fifteen years. Now a decade later, I've been in a unite and can't do the generation.
Hello JHAT. Great video,thanks again. We are of the American persuasion and live in the U.S.V.I. Hurricanes Irma and Maria hit us hard on the way to Puerto Rico and we're quite a game changer for our tiny island of St. John. We had a 3 KWH grid tied system which was removed by Irma's 270 mph winds as well as the entire grid. The utility providers took 4-1/2 months to restore power to our Villa and during that time we ran on gasoline powered generator. It cost over $4,000.00 to run our home and vacation rental units untill power was restored. We took that time to research and purchase a new hybrid off grid/grid tied system which we installed with a new diesel generator as a failsafe. I installed the new statement myself and it now provides a nice 40-60 KWH daily of Which we use about half - pushing the remainder back onto our local grid for use later if need arises. We chose to use lithium batteries (but not Tesla) from Battleborn batteries in Nevada, as we travel quite a bit and needed a storage solution that is maintainance free and extremely reliable, long lasting, and able to handle heavy demand for extended periods. I have been very pleased with our batteries performance to date, our generator hasn't been needed since we flipped the switch on the system. I just thought you might like to let your viewers know there are many other lithium battery options besides Tesla that work eceptionally well and perhaps more importantally are able to be installed and serviced by the homeowner or do it yourself. We have been very pleased and now have total electrical freedom with an excess of clean power. We never suffer from power outages anymore (our local utility grid goes down several times each week) and never again will we pay a $0.42 KWH power bill. As I write this I am sitting in Michigan having coffee on the Lakeshore while monitoring our outback solar componants and lithium batteries via smartphone. We are 4000+- miles from home and I am able to monitor, adjust and control all functions of our system. Lessons learned: 1- remove solar panels from roof under threat of hurricane. 2 - lithium batteries perform better than I had hoped. 3- solar power gives us the independance we knew it would but also a peace of mind that I did not expect. Thanks again and well done on your videos ! Power to the people.
Hi Jeff. That's an amazing, and inspirational, account. Thanks for sharing it. It's a perfect example of how these systems can transform real peoples lives. I've got a professionally installed solar system on my main house (I'm not certified to mess about with grid tied stuff here in the UK), and that system also uses lithium ion batteries (not Tesla) and it's been totally hassle free for 18 months. Enjoy the morning lakeshore coffee - sounds idyllic :-) All the best. Dave
A recent article said that 3/4 of a year into the operation of the Australian mega battery, they are on track to earn a third of the capital cost of the mega battery at one year. With that sort of economics, there will be a rush to adopt these units.
Well the Hornsdale power reserve seems to be expanded as we speak. But no there is not a rush in other places. Reason: the Australian business case is pretty unique. Frequent brown-outs on the net which the power reserve prevents and collect monies which would otherwise go to electricity plants who react slower than the power reserve (milli seconds vs tenth of seconds...). In other places still very expensive. Also do not underestimate how small the biggest battery in the world actually is 129MWh, to be extended as we speak.
@@markleyg I am home during the day so it's a lot easier for me. For example: I loaded the dishwasher last night but will wait until 11:00 am today to run it. I could have run it off my battery bank but that reduces their life and its less efficient as their are charging and discharging losses. I'll run my water heater when the dishwasher is done. I will run my 3 AC units, the pool pump and everything else all day long while the sun is shining. When the sun goes down, I will only run what I have to: lights, tv's, computers, refrigerator, freezer and such. I'll keep the AC on but switch it over to the utility to save my battery bank life. NOW: If noone is home all day to juggle this then you can still do a lot with timers and smart appliances. Programmable dishwashers and washing machines for example. If you don't have these things then at least plan for the future when you replace them. Thanks!
@@HomesteadEngineering so you think that we should run our AC when we are not home and not run it when we are, don't turn our lights on at home, somehow for our laundry when we are not at home, watch our TV when we are not home. What the heck are you talking about?
A minor point. Near the end are shown standalone solar power arrays in Africa. Would it not be good to put them over houses, save land and provide shade?
Interesting observation. There's a guy called Edward De Bono who did programmes about 'lateral thinking' in the 1980's (and still advises companies today). He would be very proud of your logical approach :-)
Good. They could also serve for rainwater collection. In climates where it is hot during the day, cold at night, spare electricity could heat a storage radiator. Better, because simpler, and could be made with local materials and labour, solar hot water could heat a thermal mass. This could be stones in a waterproof, insulated pit under or near a building. Run hot water through it during the day. Pump through radiators at night.
4:12 Smart meters do not send electricity "to where it's most needed", they simply record it for billing purposes. 4:30 "Wherever a car is plugged into a smart charger they can be set to discharge depending on the needs of the grid system" - not without paying the owner for the battery wear!
He's not talking about the bullshit meters that are used for remote shutoff and nickle and dimming. He means smart meters with grid tie in systems. That would be part of a "smart grid" or more broadly what that term is suppose to mean is a dynamic grid instead of a demand grid. He touched on that a little bit to with Telsa batteries providing grid balancing. I think we should use the term dynamic grid (even though I just made that up) as its much easier to understand what it means. It means renewable tie in systems, in mean power back feeding, it means grid storage, it means automatic grid balancing, it means load shifting appliances, it means integrating plug in EVs onto the grid. etc.
Yes, there might be more wear and tear on the battery, but the main idea behind smart meters is to allow the electricity price to change muxh more flexible for small consumers: cheaper with excess energy and more expensive with large demand. Now ofter people are charged at a flat tariff or day/night rates. With the smart meters it would basically come down to people allowing the smart meters to load up their battery during times of excess (and cheap) electricity and discharge this when there is high demand (more expensive energy), so the entire idea is that the battery owners do profit financially from the system and get payed for their batteries wear and tear. And at the same time the owners would most likely be able to define how much of the battery gets used, so that if they have solar power themselves the battery isn't suddenly full and that in the evening their battery isn't suddenly completely empty (definitely for car batteries you'd be able to set up these min and maximum battery grid use levels).
Cost of storage is a lot higher then you think. Let’s say you wish to replace a 1Gw nuclear plant with wind power. Let go through the numbers. Many French reactors have a power level higher like 1.6Gw = 1600 mega watts. We’ll use 1Gw = 1000Mw to keep our arithmetic easy. A 1 Gw nuclear Plant has a capacity factor or 95% some are higher some lower. Wind Power has a capacity factor of 33% this can very as low as 25% or a bit higher. For the layperson this may not seem so important so please bear with me. Because we wish to replace a nuclear plant with a wind farm To build a wind farm you will need 1Gw/ 33% = 3Gw of power because of the capacity factor. The wind blows 33% of the time. That means 3Gw of power is needed to be produced power so to replace 1Gw of Nuclear. How this is done is wind supplied 1Gw of power to the grid while the remaining 2Gw of power goes to storage. So lets say we have very very predictable power where every third day the wind is blowing and at sufficient speed >20km/hr. So Monday it blows Tuesday and Wednesday the wind doesn’t blow. So on the Monday 1Gw goes to the grid 2Gw goes to storage to be used on Tuesday and Wednesday. Then by some miracle the wind blows on Thursday and the cycle continues… For EVER. If there is no wind power on the third day your out of luck. Now lets calculate the size of the battery. Energy is power times a unit of time. 1 Joule of energy = 1 watt for one second. Therefore 2,000,000,000 watts (2Gw) needed to be stored in one day or 24x60x60 seconds= 86’400 seconds. So the storage that’s needed is 2,000,000,000x 86,400= 172,800Gj of energy or 172,800,000,000,000 Joules of energy storage. But the kicker here is assuming 100% storage capacity efficiency. Now lets calculate the cost of 3Gw Wind plus 172,800GJ of energy storage. Wind’s cost is about $1000 per Kw or $1 per watt. So 3Gw of wind will be $3 billion. Batteries are about $500 / Kwh or (1Kwh = 1000w/K×60 min/hr x60 sec/min) M $500 / 3.6 million joules. Or .0001388889 $/J Therefore 172,800 Gj x .00013888$/J= $24 billion So that’s 24 plus 3 = $27 billion to replace 1 nuclear plant. So the cost of storage is the kicker. But for how long?? A nuclear plant can go for 40 to 60 years. For a wind farm its life could be 20years. So look to spend 3 $billion times 60/20 (or $9 billion) to cover replacement over 60 years. For batteries lithium ion type they can take 300 to 500 charges. For calculation lets use the generous 500 charges. If the batteries will be charged once every 3 days that’s 1500 days of life. 1500/365= 4.2 years Therefore over 60 years the replacement is 60/4.2= 14 times So the total cost over 60 years is $24 billion x 14 for batteries plus $9 billion for wind turbines equaling a grand total over 60 years to be 24×14+9= $345 billion. Over 60 years. A cost that is not calculated is not just the cost per Kwhr or replacement costs over 60 years. But the cost of a power failer. The cost of a power failer is extremely difficult to calculate. A good example is that of a bakery or other industries that are highly dependent on reliable power. Bread that does not rise or a process that’s time dependent like the refrigeration of food or vaccines. A patient on an operating table. A person stuck in an elevator etc etc. Now do the same for solar but it has a capacity factor of 20% less in Germany. 1/20% =5Gw etc etc. Create your own spread sheet and adjust some numbers if you like. For nuclear it is 95% Do the math for it as well. You will need 0.05Gw of storage but this could be made up with natural gas. A lot of nuclear power plants have 2 reactors. Darlington 4 Pickering 8. As you can see by the back of napkine calculation it’s the cost of storage. There is a line in the PDF that your can down load from www.roadmaptonowhere.com that I will always remember. “Fuel is Storage” Wind and Solar are fuel free systems. But lets look on the bright side Elon Musk can sell us the battery storage for 172,800 Billion Joules of energy at 100% efficiency. Wow time to buy Tesla stock. Please comment on my above calculation try to find any errors if any.
Can you please do a deep dive segment on the small grid system? 3:45. I live in a mountain valley with 3000 users. We have sun, limited guidance. What institutions offer advice?
While mega battery storage might be suitable for peak and intermediate power, it comes nowhere near being able to supply the 30% to 40% electricity necessary for reliable uninterrupted baseload power which coal and nuclear and to a lesser extent hydro currently provide. This is made all the more problematic given the double to triple amount of power that will be required for the electrification of the transport and industrial sectors. Thinking that mega battery storage can provide an answer in the short time the IPCC tells us we must get off fossil fuels, is a faith-based solution, not a scientific one given that the largest mega battery is only capable of powering 50000 homes for a maximum of 4 hours. The only current solution to providing the massive amounts of power that will be needed without fossil fuels is, like it or not, nuclear, and massive amounts of it.
Nuclear can't deal with the fluctuations of natural energy sources unlike gas or batteries and nuclear energy is far more expensive as wind-energy today from the total costs. Producing hydrogen with renewable energy and burning it when there's not enough wind/sun seems more reasonable. In Austria they are buying electricity when it's cheap, usually when there's 'too' much wind and sun energy in the German grid, pumping water uphill and producing hydroelectric energy when the price is high.
You miss my point. None of what you suggest can solve the problem of reliable baseload power. Nuclear is the only non-fossil fuel power source together with limited hydro that can
@@robertbrown5985 Lots of renewable energy could produce enough hydro to provide baseload power and there is bio gas, which already produce 8% of the German electricity mix (compare to 11% nuclear)...
@@robertbrown5985 Renewables can produce hydrogen from over-capacities and the steep german prices for electricity have different reasons. When the Green party came to power in 1998 they wanted to get out of nuclear asap and support renewable energy. Solar and wind energy was ridiculous expensive at that times, like up to 60 €-cent per KW/h and so the owners of solar panels and wind turbines got ridiculous compensations for producing energy, guaranteed for 25 years. But they even made it worse, because the industry or even small companies needing more power got a free pass, so all normal citizens still have to pay till today for vintage solar- and wind-technique plus the consumption of the huge industry. Nowadays wind- and solar energy is a lot cheaper under 10 cent and Saudi Arabia made solar-energy deals for less than 1.5 $-cent per KW/h. So nuclear energy is just not attractive and the French nuclear power-stations are so old with huge costs in dismantle them and to store those nuclear waste for millennias to come. In Germany we have to pay many billions and it's not the companies paying the bills which made the money with those nuclear power stations, it's mostly payed by tax-payers money. I think that solar-energy should be produced in the areas that have a lot of it and this would give countries like Saudi Arabia an opportunity to export solar energy instead of oil, maybe in the form of hydrogen. And let's face it: if these global players don't get a compensation for their oil-revenues, they will do all to fight against green energy movements.
@ 5:20 Cost/benefit analyses are good things. We don't want to end up like Germany with an uncompetitive grid because they refused to do their economic homework.
Would you do a video on your battery setup for your solar. I was thinking of doing something similar. Also what is the maximum output of your system in Kw? Thanks
Hi David. Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated. China is indeed a fascinating country full of contradictions - world leading in renewable energy and also world leading in the burning of coal. I've touched on some of their technological advances in previous videos and I do indeed plan to take a closer look at the multitude of energy initiatives going on there as they roll out not only their manufacturing base, but also the massively ambitious Belt and Road initiative. Watch this space :-)
@@stevealdrich2472 unfortunately that will take too long. There is still lots of coal and it can be turned into a liquid fuel. There is also a lot of oil left, just in harder to get to places.
I agree, use nuclear to solve base load. Live to institute full green at a later time. Cloudy regions at polar extremes have little choice. Start now!!! Interesting article about German experience says it will be difficult to go 100% green. Climate change demands zero greenhouse gases, not green energy. Somehow these two have become conflated. They should not be.
Skiing Gator Only the Sith deal in absolutes. Nuclear is the most expensive electricity, and that’s before dealing with waste for many thousands of years, and before dealing with the occasional nuclear disaster. Why chose the expensive and dangerous option?
Good video, but for me the still unanswered question is can all of this battery storage at grid scale, economically. I get the appeal of storage technology, but is it realistic to deploy it? Are there any real world examples of it working as intended? I know about Hornsdale in South Australia, but that doesn't yet have enough capacity to do more than a small amount grid stability or load management.
The sheer amount of materials (especially the rare minerals needed) used to make those batteries, and the process of making them and the sheer amount of heat emitted from those batteries will definitely help us combat climate change.
Loving your channel. I installed solar panels four years ago and save heaps on the electric bill and having a Tesla battery installed this summer to go off the grid or perhaps will add a smart meter to assist my small community.
Same here in Colorado, I installed 7.6 kw, am only using fraction of it myself. Was a fun project. Waiting for "smart" grid definition here in the USA. We have a Chevy Bolt. That turns out to be a huge cost saving machine over 10 years ownership.
@@skiinggator I am waiting for the valley to generate high daytime energy, not there yet. The longer I wait, the better my options will be. All the solar is being used, eventually it will be better to charge batteries.
Even deplorable global warming deniers like myself should be pro-alternative energy, because we really wouldn't want all our eggs in one fossil-fuel basket. I'm also pro nuclear and pro energy in general. These are exciting times! Good video!
I am a fan boy of Tesla, unfortunately there is much battery bank storage on the market. Our government will also not purchase electricity on home grid systems.
Luckily that may not be all that necessary. The amount of power in a home used by HVAC systems is massive. A better way forward is to build homes with much better insulation and smaller HVAC systems that would only need to run once a day. In that case they wouldn't need any batteries. Other systems like water heaters, clothes washers etc can be setup in a similar way. Reducing the amount needed in battery systems quite a lot and then you can take advantage of solar power for quite possible more than half of your usage without a grid tie in system. You simply switch over to the grid and your solar panels charge your batteries instead when you need more power. If you really need to wash some clothes at night that won't be efficient but you can still do it.
This drive towards a smarter grid has so much momentum behind it as to be inevitable, but if the forces of conservatism have their way, it will be later rather than sooner. That's why it's so essential that proponents for change keep a level head, look at the numbers and hold a logical standpoint - let's not go down the hysterical XR path and alienate people that would otherwise be converts to a smarter, cleaner world. Keep up the great presentations that help us navigate through this complex process:)
This vid and the previous have an audio problem? Too much base resulting in muddy sound. I like the new titles but the 2nd titles were my favorite so far.
Have you or could you do a program on the liquid metal battery technology that has been developed by Donald Sadoway, a Canadian working at MIT. This looks like a better large scale storage solution than using lithium. The mining of lithium is having its own environmental issues.
During the first quarter of 2019 renewable energy generated more electricity than coal here in the US, the shift is happening.....slowly. Thanks for a very informative video.
Those "batteries" already exist. Like pumped-storage, heat storage ... Elon Musk's battery is a very misleading example here, it can not even last for 1 second for big cities like NY, LA, and much more expensive.
You make it sound so wonderful, storing energy in batteries. What's the environmental cost of building millions, no billions, of these batteries worldwide? How long do they last? How much energy needed to dispose of them? They aren't the solution, they will become part of the problem.
Lounge lizard, will their ever be a commercial battery recycling proces that actually does something useful with the lithium? Because if your burning trough all our lithium, what's the benefits for future generations?
Interesting talk. Could it be that the title is a little bit of click bait? One of the reasons I really became interested in Tesla was that they had just started on the home energy and solar panel front as well, but it seems that they aren’t really moving this along. The solar panels were announced in 2016 and are still basically not rolled out. The batteries unfortunately never became available in my country, Ireland, so I eventually had to go with batteries by BYD. Maybe the Powerwall is available more readily in other European countries. Unfortunately I feel Tesla might be getting out of the domestic segment and focusing solely on their cars. I hope I’m wrong, but this seems to be the current direction.
Hi whk 71. Fair comment on the 'click bait' thing. You Tube has proven to be a pretty tough stomping ground for someone who is essentially delivering a message the no-one really wants to hear, so I do occasionally have to revert to lobbing in a noteworthy name or phrase into the titles. I agree with you about the slow roll out of Tesla's home solar. I think they were extremely ambitious with the whole 'solar tile' thing. Extremely expensive compared to standard solar panels. I'm pretty sure they'll continue to develop the technology but you're quite right to say that Elon's focus is on cars (and Mars). The former being a good thing, the latter being a bit mad in my view, but we shall see. Thanks for your support though. Much appreciated. All the best. Dave
Smart Grid is the solution for short energy fluctuations throughout the day. Every household could use a Tesla Powerwall or similar system to add up it to the grid storage. How can we implement this as a sort of guerilla system as long as the fossil fuel lobby doesn’t take the right action? Are there applications ready to use in place yet?
Hi Stefan. The rapid adoption of electric vehicles over the next two years will in my opinion make smart grids inevitable and consumers will realise that there vehicles are just great big mobile energy storage devices that will do the same job as a Powerwall. The fossil fuel companies monopoly is definitely coming to an end now.
@@JustHaveaThink Hopefully the industry will provide viable solutions to apply. I live in a flat and don't own a car myself. I thought a Powerwall could be an option. However, I have pretty ambitious plans for CO2-negative energy production and soil enhancement on global soil and look for funding and support. Viable ideas are very much appreciated? :)
Hi Joaquin. Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated. I agree about the FUD comments. We don't really have that over here in the UK so for me it's more of a quaint American curiosity than a serious challenge to the well established and well accepted facts that are being utilised all over the world (including the USA) to actually address the challenges of climate change.
Just wonder what the environmental cost might be in manufacturing the millions of battery's, wind farms and solar....what are the environmental cost when the battery's need to be recycled or binned. We have to remember we have a environmental crisis as well as a global warming crisis.
Solar cells are made from sand Silicon dioxide SiO2 to create Si -silicon so this is very environmentally friendly. You can recycle both batteries and solar cells.
@@klokoloko2114 silicon is definitely the way to go for PV. Less about efficiency and more about cost, availability, and full life cycle of the components. Couple with a cheap energy storage device for residential needs. Industrial and commercial uses will require nuclear power.
First off the threat of global climate change takes precedence over all other concerns - unaddressed it will lead to the death of BILLIONS of people, so get your priorities straight. Secondly, lots of companies, like Tesla and Panasonic, are already working towards nearly 100% recyclablility, especially considering the limited supply of many of the elements. Btw, these days most of the negativity and FUD you read about environmental damage from batteries is funded by the fossil fuel industry, as they have a vested interest in preventing or delaying the wholesale adoption of this growing technology.
@@skiinggator Exactly, the quickest way to get to zero greenhouse gas emissions (as far as the power grid is concerned) is to increase nuclear power, not reduce or eliminate as many countries are doing. 3rd Gen reactors are far safer than the old (practically antiquated) 2nd Gen reactors that exist in most of the world (includes every U.S. reactor), and with the upcoming 4th Gen reactors (likely available within the next decade) they'll be tens and even a hundred times more efficient, cheaper to build and maintain, and almost zero potential for suffering a meltdown. And with the current breakthroughs in fusion, commercial reactors may ACTUALLY be ready for prime time within 20 years or less, which will be the Holy Grail of cheap clean energy.
Russell Popham also globally we are consuming resources like we have 2 planets and the biodiversity loss as we turn nature into cash as quickly as possible is breaking the web of life which we need!! Extinction rates 1000 times higher than background rates as we pollute and strip the lands and oceans for our own end We need less people consuming far less resources to have any hope. Damned if we do damned if we don't ...and all the talk of trying to maintain the statues quo is delusional ....humanity is not above the web of life we are part of it tho most people forget or ignore the fact
Hi Tibor. Yes, that's a very good video (as Real Engineering videos always are). My only caveat is that they were a bit pessimistic about the economies of scale and only based their predictions on current technology and prices, all of which will improve dramatically as new tech is embraced globally. All the best. Dave
If things come down to cost - the various types of storage Flywheels 45c kwh, Li-On batteries 25cents, pumped hydro at 17cents is currently the cheapest and most widely used. Though not yet proven the Energy Vault system of cranes using concrete blocks backed by Bill Gross appears to come around 3.5cents kwh and uses less concrete than a dam per megawatt (also does not degrade over time and doesn't require special metals like cobalt or lithium. May I suggest doing a program on that? According to Gross they have 1200 potential orders of 35mwh storage vaults at $7million each though only Tata power seems to have one underconstruction. In any case 3cents storage combined with solar or wind is lower than the current Natural Gas plant at 5cents per kwh.
@@JustHaveaThink It is 6 cranes that build a tower with 35ton concrete blocks. Here is Bill Gross one of the founders introducing it. ruclips.net/video/l93S99rkDg4/видео.html
Here in Colorado our electrical grid is dominated by a multi state conglomerate that emerged out of the deregulatory environment of the Reagan administration. The power of state regulatory Public Utility Commissions were diminished as the power and wealth of these interstate monopolies grew. But as private corporations, investing in future infrastructure that would strand existing revenue producing assets while "gifting" future revenue producing investment to private households and businesses, seems a suicidal strategy to corporate directors, stockholders, and Wall Street financiers. Combined with the allied power and money of the fossil fuel industries much of the investment has been in lobbying and public relation campaigns to defeat, delay, and diffuse public demand for a move to a renewable electrical grid. As with the misadventures with nuclear power plants in the 1980's, corporate utilities will look to the public to assume the risk and costs of developing infrastructure which the utilities will ultimately own and extract wealth from. The answer, considering the necessity and urgency of our circumstances, would be to condemn by eminent domain, the electrical production and distribution system as a public resource and rebuild the system to accommodate the demands of a changing world without regard to the overweighted and narrow interests of wealth extraction. Thanks Dave.
Hi Tom. Comprehensively and succinctly explained. I agree 100% with your view (albeit a fairly disheartening reality) Thanks for your contribution as always. All the best. Dave
@@JustHaveaThink Serendipitously I am off to a XR strategy meeting where I plan to raise some of these issues addressed here. Thanks for the just in time inspiration from Just Have A Think.
We need to get away from the idea of a single solution. Batteries are great but they don't fix every problem. Seasonal storage is a bigger challenge to address at the moment.
You must have done this before, one way or another 😊 it’s a fantastic proff. show you have. Hey, and 12.000, we are getting many 👍🏼 your a great guy, thank you.
Personally I hope India can become no. 1 in renewable energies. We need to capitalise on renewable energy anyhow, given the coal is intoxicating everyone's lungs. Hopefully the whole world goes renewable soon. Unless we can get some of that clean coal technology actually working where the CO2 is stored into the ground.
India must get its population under control or else there will be widespread famine and the world will be plagued by massive depopulation. Its only a matter of time and time will tell, to everyone's horror.
@@acmefixer1 Famine isn't really an issue, with enough energy production we'd be able to feed up to possibly a trillion people (though more likely would be limited to 100-500 billion). This is, if we transform the outside agriculture tradition to an indoor agriculture tradition. The food would just be maybe 1,5-2 times more expensive, thus for most crops this system just isn't profitable at the moment (due to energy costs, initial large scale capital investment for the building and manpower costs).
There is one very important part of battery storage that is not adequately discussed. A li-ion battery is not a install once and forget forever type of deal, you can only push so much energy through it before it's junk. That means the cost of energy from a battery becomes the cost of energy used to charge it, plus an amortization cost. So how much is that exactly? Well, anyone can do their own calculations, but lets just say I bloody well will not be buying any home battery storage any time soon.
South Australian battery is looking like it will pay itself off in under three years - load shifting has always been necessary - they are a gold mine - if you are a local council or community group look into it - lithium and rare earths supply will tighten & create externalities so I think there will be a next gen battery of some kind but for now an excellent opportunity & great disruptor - great channel BTW
So far the battery grid storage in is less than 1 or 2% actually needed. What is needed is larger and longer storage and pumped hydro is the most common but I'd suggest the Energy Vault system of cranes and concrete blocks is a potential solution as it is all existing tech, does not require special metals or earths, and can last for decades. In cost it is supposedly at 3.5cents per kwh which is 1/4 or pumped hydro. (Pumped hydro also requires elevation differential and water, not always available)
4:52 what do you mean "somewhat unreliable grid system". Do you have anything to back that up? The latest figures I've seen for reliability in the US better than 99.9% reliable. That's not to say that it couldn't use some updating to improve performance but justifying it through slander is just underhanded.
There are now other grid energy storage options that are on the market at a lower cost than Lithium Ion. ESS Inc, has a iron flow battery that is less than $100/kWh and NEC is about to bring Ambri's liquid metal batteries onto the market for even less.
How susceptible to damage by EM pulses are these? Sooner or later a massive EMP will cause major damage to the electrical grid. If bad enough, it may not be possible for the electrical companies to repair it in a relatively short span. It takes a lot of time to build the big transformers needed to keep electricity flowing and to distribute power to homes. Stored electrical power may be able to over come this hazard.
Smart grid+energy storage are definitely the way to go in the future. Not only it will be easier to make sure the demand for electricity is fulfilled, it also help renewable especially in this case solar to worked out, since having solar panels on each house is good not only in terms of land usage, but it also made each house becoming mini electricity generator that combined with smart grid and energ storage system will create amazing energy ecosystem. Way to enable that is definitely the battery, which tesla is definitely accelerating right now. I can't wait for tesla to implement Maxwell's dry cell production technology into their lineup. Should that happen, not only their product lineup, but also other technologies that use battery in general will significantly improve better, faster, and cheaper.
Wendigo - do you realize that the smart grid is just a means of selective tripping you off line for a rolling brownout or non-payment? So far the smart grid has been used to spy on your energy usage and call in the SWAT team if they see that your energy usage at night is much higher than your neighbors so you are suspect of growing pot.
Hi neddy laddy. Rhetorical question really - fiendishly devised to get you to watch the video (which looks to have worked). Thanks for watching. BTW the answer is 'No' - at least not on their own. But as part of a huge raft of other green energy generation and storage technologies, I think it just might be. All the best. Dave
@@JustHaveaThink ut Tesla batteries are only different in the brand that is stamped on them. I'm afraid that using the Tesla name merely makes you look like another fan boy idiot.
@@neddyladdy Tesla battery IP is superior. Cheaper with lowest cobalt and higher performance as independently assessed. Will double charge cycles again and reduce costs with Maxwell acquisition. Making unsubstantiated assertions make you look like an opinionated but vacuous idiot. electrek.co/2017/05/04/tesla-battery-researcher-chemistry-lifcycle/ electrek.co/2019/02/01/tesla-patent-battery-cell/ ruclips.net/video/pAS-yjWj9DY/видео.html
What will states like England do with their lack of sun? What of states up north who can, at times, have days full of dark? Will there be enough storage capacity? This is a genuine question.
Hi MCA. It's a perfectly good question. As you'll see in some of the comments below, there's not going to be one single solution but a sort of 'Smorgasbord' of overlapping complimentary options that cover all eventualities at all times of day and night in all parts of the world. Battery storage is just one of them. A smart distributed grid is a another one, which although very expensive to implement will not only smooth out peaks and troughs in demand at a continental and possibly eventually even at a global level, but at a more esoteric level, it might in the long term even serve as a catalyst to help the human species learn how to play nicely together instead of bickering and fighting all the time. As a species I'd say we've got the collective mental age of about a 5 year old. If we are to survive into our teens and on into adult maturity, empathy, understanding and pragmatic co-operation will be the key. I'll be long gone by then, but I can still hope. All the best. Dave
My state only uses 4.7% is renewable I hope Arkansas and other states will move to renewable energy. I want is to live a long time without having to deal with damaging our planet
Tesla batteries?? Lithium batteries are FAR too expensive for grid power storage, much cheaper alternatives exist, since power density (mass & volume) is not much of a concern for grid power storage. It is possible that some 20 years from now there will be old Tesla batteries getting pulled out of junked cars, that still have enough capacity for useful power grid storage, and at a sensible cost.
@Chuck O No, Li-Ion is not at the top of the list .. pumped hydro is.. www.eesi.org/papers/view/energy-storage-2019#2 Li-Ion will be much more attractive 20 years from now, when a glut of recycled cheap EV car batteries are available that still have 70%+ capacity.... should be easy to devise a device to just plug those batteries in when delivered to the Power Grid company.
I just subscribed and will say once the new, yet old, technology I have been working on since 2006 hits the markets the swing towards energy independence revolution will begin. Interestingly it was the IMF and World Bank that put a stop to this technology back in 1969 but the technology simply refuses to die as for it to die means the stoppage of science and innovation as the technology goes much further than just making energy for the masses.
Hi Edward. Thanks for subscribing and for such insightful commentary. Despite the setbacks that you mention, it's still extremely encouraging to hear someone who has real world experience in the industry making such a positive assertion for the future of the the technology. All power to your elbow! All the best. Dave
@@JustHaveaThink This is the science behind Stanley Meyer's car that ran around with just water in it's fuel tank. "Mitchell's Theorem - All Molecules can separated into their component atoms by taking away the electrons from the atoms that make up the molecules." Strangely this need to know science is missing from our books of science and I think the IMF and World Banks are behind it's absence as surely someone had to have asked, "How does a plant break the bonds of the water molecules?" before me but if not I did and got the answer to that question. But as a safety issue we need to stop flying air planes into thunderstorms as that is the second example of this type of water separation taking place in nature.
I think the biggest stumbling block for behind the meter or home battery storage is simply cost. Sure battery prices are coming down in EVs but we are not seeing that reflected in the home storage market. Demand for lithium batteries outstrips supply.
I only worry that Li-ion batteries are too expensive for grid level storage of power,and whether battery manufacturers can keep pace with worldwide demand. Perhaps other battery technologies such as flow batteries would be helpful,more robust,and much cheaper.
Lithium batteries are good for about 500 deep cycles and can't be recycled Ni-Cad batteries can be deep cycled about 2000 or more times and 100% recyclable and 1/3 the price but are very heavy but for a house who cares.
@@Apjooz I'm sorry the facts dont fit your narrative, another level of battery technology is needed. www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=medium.com/%40alen.ladavac/renewable-energy-in-transportation-were-doing-it-all-wrong-2d3aad05f197&ved=2ahUKEwicjsWagb3iAhUoIDQIHW6bA94QFjAJegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2BpHgu4siDwHjl4w6OLiET&cshid=1559004849321
I can't repeat this enough. In the future you will have GLOBAL ELECTRICITY NETWORK like internet today. More than 50% will be from solar. When you in EU have day you produce electricity for your need and send rest to USA in dark trough HVDC (High Voltage Direct Current) submarine cables under ocean floor. You have those cables for internet (optical cables). It will be London- Newyork, Tokio to LA etc. North to South , West to East if we do not kill each other in nuclear war before that. Also you can use Pumped-storage hydroelectricity (type in google). Hydropower storage is you pump water on some high mountain (higher the better) in artificial reservoir during day with solar energy and at night you produce electricity at the bottom. Same motor/generator send water on mountain and same motor/generator produce accumulated electricity during night. For large scale accumulation it is better and cheaper than battery storage.
@@deanscott4165 We can do it right now. Also every EV car that is parked and not running (battery storage)can send excess power during night to national grid when is needed.
Kloko Loko I agree we can do lots of things but I don’t see them happening. The timeframe we have is short. I’m all for starting now but I’m just one guy.
Hi Kloko. Your description of global distributed energy is extremely compelling. We probably could have been there by now if the political will had existed 30 years or so ago. Let's hope we've got enough time to rectify our previous errors and get this initiative up and running. All the best. Dave
A small correction: the largest democracy in the world is far larger than India. It's the Federation of Russia, which also happens to be the largest country in the world.
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As a human geographer who studied climate change in the early 90s, and who has tried to educate people since then, sometimes it can seem a bit of an uphill struggle. I am generally an optimist and believe we can engineer our way using science to a better future, but in times of less optimism, videos like this keep me leaning towards the positive. Well researched material and presented in a very level headed manner. Keep up the great work.
Understatement of the century, "...sometimes it can seem a bit of an uphill struggle." ;?D
It ain't manmade...fool
I wish I could share your optimism but in my life we haven’t made any real progress to replace a meaningful percentage of our energy production and in my opinion focusing our energies on toys instead of real engineering solutions.
molten salt nuclear. lithium carboxide alginate CNT graphene glass solid state batteries. sulfur dioxide pump. silica spheres for the permafrost. marine permaculture arrays. biochar terra pretta and paddledock grazing and refusing to use the haber bosch process for manufacture of synthetic ammonia fertilizer, arguably the most damaging thing to the planet bar none. Also possibly plasma arc vaporization of waste streams. reforestation(the miyawaki aforestation protocol). aquaponics? ppl say the food tastes like shit oh well, also point source carbon capture membranes for coal plant smoke stacks(made of graphene). also generally refusing to vote for fuckheads is good.
Its will take as much fossil fuels as can get our hands on, to replace fossil fuels.
Fossils aren't going anywhere soon in energy production or transportation.
The money isn't there without destroying the worlds economies while doing it.
Mandating such change will only slow it down and cause economic shrinkage.
Here in the USA, we enjoy relatively low electricity costs. Our national average rate is about $.10 US per kilowatt hour. Batteries are very expensive, by comparison. It costs about $.08-$.10 US to maintain any kind of battery, which is a break-even for most of the country. Behind the meter storage makes sense for home owners, because the batteries only have to compete with retail rates. In some parts of our country, the rates are double, or perhaps close to triple the national average. For people living in those states, home batteries make the most sense, and, are the biggest markets for the technology. As electricity becomes more expensive everywhere else, and the cost of batteries, as well as other components (inverters and solar panels) come down, you will start to see a wide spread adoption of the technology. In many other countries, it's already less expensive to go solar and battery, than to pay rate. More and more places in the USA are reaching that "crossover point".
Thanks for taking the time to put these videos out and for all the major content. I know it still seems to be an uphill battle. in the US at least, but at some point I think we will join and make the contribution we should.
These videos just make me happy. So positive. And the comments as well. I actually believe we can get this done.
How do mechanical energy storage systems stack up? flywheels, gravity, air pressure?
Sasquatch 2001 they are the only realistic option.
Hi Sasquatch2001. All good points. We'll try to get to all of them in programs over the coming months. My view is we need to be pursuing every possible option as diligently and quickly as possible.
Another inspirational and informative overview of progress around the world.
Thanks James. Much appreciated :-) All the best. Dave
You are doing some great work!
Solar, wind, renewables and storage are great ideas. The sobering thing is looking at just what gap we are trying to fill. The UK consumes between 25GW and 40GW currently depending on time of year. Main grid renewables contribute as much as 50% of that on a good day and as little as 5% on a bad day. Localised domestic solar is harder to judge, but any locally generated solar is already accounted for in the 25-40GW figure as the grid demand reduction.
So to hit that milestone 100% from renewables "on a good day" we need to double the amount of them we have. Still we won't have capacity to charge anything from renewables as 100% of the renewable energy would be consumed on such a day. To get to charging grid storage we need to over generate.
For sizing solar arrays, for example, a quick estimation is to multiple the base load by 10. For your storage array you want to be looking at 10 days of your base load. Even if wind in the UK is twice as good as solar then it needs sized by a factor of 5.
So to meet demand even intermittently we need to double the size of renewables and to move to renewables 100% with grid storage we need 20 times more solar and 10 times more wind. And batteries totally about 350GWh.
This is already sounding daunting, expensive and barely conceivable if you consider the scale and costs involved. But, we haven't even started yet.
When we convert our cars to run on grid electric, they will nearly double our current consumption! Having most of the cars in the UK come home at 6pm and connect to a 3kW charger amounts to another 30-40GW power draw!
Then we need to consider converting our fossil fuel home heating to electric. Even if we make all of that heat exchanger heating it will still add a massive 20-40GW power draw (particularly in winter).
So those estimates for expanding our solar and wind by factors of 20 and 10 now get multipled by another factor of 4 to go from a 25-40GW grid consumption to more like 100GW-150GW consumption. So we need around 80 times more solar and 40 times more wind.
Unfortunately there isn't enough land, money or resources to provide that in the UK.
www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
It is interesting to read this comment five years later. Had I seen this channel in 2019, I would have agreed with nearly all that you say. But to read in The Economist (22 June, 2024) now, I see that the UK is well on its way to meeting your projections. Even three years ago I was skeptical of electric cars, now I own one. Similarly I felt that PV and battery storage systems would never be viable for working class folks. But soon my own system will be finished and I will be charging my car with it.
It is winter in Australia and my house batteries are flat. No Sun!
Love the show. In the US, you are right that renewable infrastructure is being stunted by lobbying by traditional legacy infrastructure companies. Even where one has a choice of selecting generation, there is very little advertisement of the choice to the public. I learned of the option of renewable v. Traditional power generation selection via word of mouth rather than direct contact from my power company. The US like to point out how regressive other countries are in all sorts of areas but it is easier to see the regressive nature of our politics, policies and industries in the US.
Your programmes are always fantastic and informative.
Thank Jonathan. Much appreciated :-)
Love your apt description of our politicians, cheers from Australia!
What do you think about molten salt batteries for grid storage? Or gravity storage systems like rail carts or mineshafts?
What happens when the cells boil dry or spoiled. What is the replacement for your system, mate. Mine did a two year life span with three day look at them, I had ten boil out or dry cells over fifteen years. Now a decade later, I've been in a unite and can't do the generation.
Hello JHAT. Great video,thanks again.
We are of the American persuasion and live in the U.S.V.I.
Hurricanes Irma and Maria hit us hard on the way to Puerto Rico and we're quite a game changer for our tiny island of St. John.
We had a 3 KWH grid tied system which was removed by Irma's 270 mph winds as well as the entire grid. The utility providers took 4-1/2 months to restore power to our Villa and during that time we ran on gasoline powered generator. It cost over $4,000.00 to run our home and vacation rental units untill power was restored. We took that time to research and purchase a new hybrid off grid/grid tied system which we installed with a new diesel generator as a failsafe. I installed the new statement myself and it now provides a nice 40-60 KWH daily of Which we use about half - pushing the remainder back onto our local grid for use later if need arises. We chose to use lithium batteries (but not Tesla) from Battleborn batteries in Nevada, as we travel quite a bit and needed a storage solution that is maintainance free and extremely reliable, long lasting, and able to handle heavy demand for extended periods. I have been very pleased with our batteries performance to date, our generator hasn't been needed since we flipped the switch on the system. I just thought you might like to let your viewers know there are many other lithium battery options besides Tesla that work eceptionally well and perhaps more importantally are able to be installed and serviced by the homeowner or do it yourself. We have been very pleased and now have total electrical freedom with an excess of clean power. We never suffer from power outages anymore (our local utility grid goes down several times each week) and never again will we pay a $0.42 KWH power bill.
As I write this I am sitting in Michigan having coffee on the Lakeshore while monitoring our outback solar componants and lithium batteries via smartphone. We are 4000+- miles from home and I am able to monitor, adjust and control all functions of our system.
Lessons learned: 1- remove solar panels from roof under threat of hurricane.
2 - lithium batteries perform better than I had hoped.
3- solar power gives us the independance we knew it would but also a peace of mind that I did not expect.
Thanks again and well done on your videos !
Power to the people.
Hi Jeff. That's an amazing, and inspirational, account. Thanks for sharing it. It's a perfect example of how these systems can transform real peoples lives. I've got a professionally installed solar system on my main house (I'm not certified to mess about with grid tied stuff here in the UK), and that system also uses lithium ion batteries (not Tesla) and it's been totally hassle free for 18 months. Enjoy the morning lakeshore coffee - sounds idyllic :-) All the best. Dave
A recent article said that 3/4 of a year into the operation of the Australian mega battery, they are on track to earn a third of the capital cost of the mega battery at one year. With that sort of economics, there will be a rush to adopt these units.
Well the Hornsdale power reserve seems to be expanded as we speak. But no there is not a rush in other places. Reason: the Australian business case is pretty unique. Frequent brown-outs on the net which the power reserve prevents and collect monies which would otherwise go to electricity plants who react slower than the power reserve (milli seconds vs tenth of seconds...). In other places still very expensive. Also do not underestimate how small the biggest battery in the world actually is 129MWh, to be extended as we speak.
Does this growth rate match subsidies?
Changing habits can greatly reduce the need for storage. Use your renewable energy when it is available.
And how is that done? Run my AC and wash my cothes when I am at work and run my lights during the day and turn them off at night?
@@markleyg I am home during the day so it's a lot easier for me. For example: I loaded the dishwasher last night but will wait until 11:00 am today to run it. I could have run it off my battery bank but that reduces their life and its less efficient as their are charging and discharging losses. I'll run my water heater when the dishwasher is done. I will run my 3 AC units, the pool pump and everything else all day long while the sun is shining. When the sun goes down, I will only run what I have to: lights, tv's, computers, refrigerator, freezer and such. I'll keep the AC on but switch it over to the utility to save my battery bank life. NOW: If noone is home all day to juggle this then you can still do a lot with timers and smart appliances. Programmable dishwashers and washing machines for example. If you don't have these things then at least plan for the future when you replace them. Thanks!
@@HomesteadEngineering great. Won't work for the majority who aren't home during the day.
@@markleyg It works for me right now and will work for the majority, weather your home or not, in the near future.
@@HomesteadEngineering so you think that we should run our AC when we are not home and not run it when we are, don't turn our lights on at home, somehow for our laundry when we are not at home, watch our TV when we are not home. What the heck are you talking about?
A minor point. Near the end are shown standalone solar power arrays in Africa. Would it not be good to put them over houses, save land and provide shade?
Interesting observation. There's a guy called Edward De Bono who did programmes about 'lateral thinking' in the 1980's (and still advises companies today). He would be very proud of your logical approach :-)
Good. They could also serve for rainwater collection.
In climates where it is hot during the day, cold at night, spare electricity could heat a storage radiator. Better, because simpler, and could be made with local materials and labour, solar hot water could heat a thermal mass. This could be stones in a waterproof, insulated pit under or near a building. Run hot water through it during the day. Pump through radiators at night.
4:12 Smart meters do not send electricity "to where it's most needed", they simply record it for billing purposes. 4:30 "Wherever a car is plugged into a smart charger they can be set to discharge depending on the needs of the grid system" - not without paying the owner for the battery wear!
He's not talking about the bullshit meters that are used for remote shutoff and nickle and dimming. He means smart meters with grid tie in systems. That would be part of a "smart grid" or more broadly what that term is suppose to mean is a dynamic grid instead of a demand grid. He touched on that a little bit to with Telsa batteries providing grid balancing. I think we should use the term dynamic grid (even though I just made that up) as its much easier to understand what it means. It means renewable tie in systems, in mean power back feeding, it means grid storage, it means automatic grid balancing, it means load shifting appliances, it means integrating plug in EVs onto the grid. etc.
Recent info: John Goodenough has an answer that may well be goodenough:-)
Yes, there might be more wear and tear on the battery, but the main idea behind smart meters is to allow the electricity price to change muxh more flexible for small consumers: cheaper with excess energy and more expensive with large demand. Now ofter people are charged at a flat tariff or day/night rates. With the smart meters it would basically come down to people allowing the smart meters to load up their battery during times of excess (and cheap) electricity and discharge this when there is high demand (more expensive energy), so the entire idea is that the battery owners do profit financially from the system and get payed for their batteries wear and tear.
And at the same time the owners would most likely be able to define how much of the battery gets used, so that if they have solar power themselves the battery isn't suddenly full and that in the evening their battery isn't suddenly completely empty (definitely for car batteries you'd be able to set up these min and maximum battery grid use levels).
Great content. Thank you for producing these videos.
Thanks Grant. Much appreciated.
Nice one let them LEARN!
As always, a massive thank you.
Cost of storage is a lot higher then you think.
Let’s say you wish to replace a 1Gw nuclear plant with wind power. Let go through the numbers.
Many French reactors have a power level higher like 1.6Gw = 1600 mega watts. We’ll use 1Gw = 1000Mw to keep our arithmetic easy.
A 1 Gw nuclear Plant has a capacity factor or 95% some are higher some lower.
Wind Power has a capacity factor of 33% this can very as low as 25% or a bit higher.
For the layperson this may not seem so important so please bear with me. Because we wish to replace a nuclear plant with a wind farm
To build a wind farm you will need 1Gw/ 33% = 3Gw of power because of the capacity factor. The wind blows 33% of the time. That means 3Gw of power is needed to be produced power so to replace 1Gw of Nuclear. How this is done is wind supplied 1Gw of power to the grid while the remaining 2Gw of power goes to storage. So lets say we have very very predictable power where every third day the wind is blowing and at sufficient speed >20km/hr. So Monday it blows Tuesday and Wednesday the wind doesn’t blow. So on the Monday 1Gw goes to the grid 2Gw goes to storage to be used on Tuesday and Wednesday. Then by some miracle the wind blows on Thursday and the cycle continues… For EVER. If there is no wind power on the third day your out of luck. Now lets calculate the size of the battery. Energy is power times a unit of time.
1 Joule of energy = 1 watt for one second. Therefore 2,000,000,000 watts (2Gw) needed to be stored in one day or 24x60x60 seconds= 86’400 seconds. So the storage that’s needed is 2,000,000,000x 86,400=
172,800Gj of energy or 172,800,000,000,000 Joules of energy storage. But the kicker here is assuming 100% storage capacity efficiency. Now lets calculate the cost of 3Gw Wind plus 172,800GJ of energy storage.
Wind’s cost is about $1000 per Kw or $1 per watt. So 3Gw of wind will be $3 billion.
Batteries are about $500 / Kwh or (1Kwh = 1000w/K×60 min/hr x60 sec/min)
M $500 / 3.6 million joules. Or .0001388889 $/J
Therefore 172,800 Gj x .00013888$/J= $24 billion
So that’s 24 plus 3 = $27 billion to replace 1 nuclear plant. So the cost of storage is the kicker.
But for how long?? A nuclear plant can go for 40 to 60 years.
For a wind farm its life could be 20years. So look to spend 3 $billion times 60/20 (or $9 billion) to cover replacement over 60 years. For batteries lithium ion type they can take 300 to 500 charges. For calculation lets use the generous 500 charges. If the batteries will be charged once every 3 days that’s 1500 days of life.
1500/365= 4.2 years Therefore over 60 years the replacement is 60/4.2= 14 times
So the total cost over 60 years is $24 billion x 14 for batteries plus $9 billion for wind turbines equaling a grand total over 60 years to be 24×14+9=
$345 billion. Over 60 years.
A cost that is not calculated is not just the cost per Kwhr or replacement costs over 60 years.
But the cost of a power failer.
The cost of a power failer is extremely difficult to calculate. A good example is that of a bakery or other industries that are highly dependent on reliable power. Bread that does not rise or a process that’s time dependent like the refrigeration of food or vaccines. A patient on an operating table. A person stuck in an elevator etc etc.
Now do the same for solar but it has a capacity factor of 20% less in Germany.
1/20% =5Gw etc etc. Create your own spread sheet and adjust some numbers if you like.
For nuclear it is 95% Do the math for it as well. You will need 0.05Gw of storage but this could be made up with natural gas. A lot of nuclear power plants have 2 reactors. Darlington 4 Pickering 8. As you can see by the back of napkine calculation it’s the cost of storage. There is a line in the PDF that your can down load from www.roadmaptonowhere.com that I will always remember.
“Fuel is Storage” Wind and Solar are fuel free systems.
But lets look on the bright side Elon Musk can sell us the battery storage for 172,800 Billion Joules of energy at 100% efficiency. Wow time to buy Tesla stock.
Please comment on my above calculation try to find any errors if any.
Just love all the informative content , keep up the outstanding work lad ! Good on you Sr.!!!
Thank you sir
2:05 - Holyshit - I can't stand my prime minister.
Karlstens. Yeah, me neither. He’s a complete fuckwit!
Yep, unfortunately Scomo still lives in a cave in Canberra
Can you please do a deep dive segment on the small grid system? 3:45. I live in a mountain valley with 3000 users. We have sun, limited guidance. What institutions offer advice?
Here's one part of the equation; www.redflow.com
Great report. Thanks!
I love your channel because you have an optimistic view on such big global problems!
Thanks for a great report!
Thanks Faruk. Much appreciated.
Top notch. Thanks for another illuminating presentation.
Cheers Matt. Much appreciated as always.
Great vid. What software did you use to animate the graphs? Very nice.
Great show!
While mega battery storage might be suitable for peak and intermediate power, it comes nowhere near being able to supply the 30% to 40% electricity necessary for reliable uninterrupted baseload power which coal and nuclear and to a lesser extent hydro currently provide. This is made all the more problematic given the double to triple amount of power that will be required for the electrification of the transport and industrial sectors. Thinking that mega battery storage can provide an answer in the short time the IPCC tells us we must get off fossil fuels, is a faith-based solution, not a scientific one given that the largest mega battery is only capable of powering 50000 homes for a maximum of 4 hours. The only current solution to providing the massive amounts of power that will be needed without fossil fuels is, like it or not, nuclear, and massive amounts of it.
Robert Brown, good input! All non nuclear investments lead to less nuclear right now so pv, wind and batteries are a probleem.
Nuclear can't deal with the fluctuations of natural energy sources unlike gas or batteries and nuclear energy is far more expensive as wind-energy today from the total costs. Producing hydrogen with renewable energy and burning it when there's not enough wind/sun seems more reasonable. In Austria they are buying electricity when it's cheap, usually when there's 'too' much wind and sun energy in the German grid, pumping water uphill and producing hydroelectric energy when the price is high.
You miss my point. None of what you suggest can solve the problem of reliable baseload power. Nuclear is the only non-fossil fuel power source together with limited hydro that can
@@robertbrown5985 Lots of renewable energy could produce enough hydro to provide baseload power and there is bio gas, which already produce 8% of the German electricity mix (compare to 11% nuclear)...
@@robertbrown5985 Renewables can produce hydrogen from over-capacities and the steep german prices for electricity have different reasons. When the Green party came to power in 1998 they wanted to get out of nuclear asap and support renewable energy. Solar and wind energy was ridiculous expensive at that times, like up to 60 €-cent per KW/h and so the owners of solar panels and wind turbines got ridiculous compensations for producing energy, guaranteed for 25 years. But they even made it worse, because the industry or even small companies needing more power got a free pass, so all normal citizens still have to pay till today for vintage solar- and wind-technique plus the consumption of the huge industry.
Nowadays wind- and solar energy is a lot cheaper under 10 cent and Saudi Arabia made solar-energy deals for less than 1.5 $-cent per KW/h. So nuclear energy is just not attractive and the French nuclear power-stations are so old with huge costs in dismantle them and to store those nuclear waste for millennias to come. In Germany we have to pay many billions and it's not the companies paying the bills which made the money with those nuclear power stations, it's mostly payed by tax-payers money.
I think that solar-energy should be produced in the areas that have a lot of it and this would give countries like Saudi Arabia an opportunity to export solar energy instead of oil, maybe in the form of hydrogen. And let's face it: if these global players don't get a compensation for their oil-revenues, they will do all to fight against green energy movements.
Battery tech still a long way to go.
1 kg of jet fuel = 46kg of batteries
@ 5:20 Cost/benefit analyses are good things. We don't want to end up like Germany with an uncompetitive grid because they refused to do their economic homework.
Would you do a video on your battery setup for your solar. I was thinking of doing something similar. Also what is the maximum output of your system in Kw?
Thanks
Great video....thanks. Would you consider doing a video on what's going on in China with renewables and manufacturing?
Hi David. Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated. China is indeed a fascinating country full of contradictions - world leading in renewable energy and also world leading in the burning of coal. I've touched on some of their technological advances in previous videos and I do indeed plan to take a closer look at the multitude of energy initiatives going on there as they roll out not only their manufacturing base, but also the massively ambitious Belt and Road initiative. Watch this space :-)
Only nuclear power is capable of completely eliminating fossil fuels. Solar PVs on every home with battery storage can help.
Nuclear Power is a dinosaur
Depletion of fossil fuels is capable of eliminating fossil fuels.
@@stevealdrich2472 unfortunately that will take too long. There is still lots of coal and it can be turned into a liquid fuel. There is also a lot of oil left, just in harder to get to places.
I agree, use nuclear to solve base load. Live to institute full green at a later time. Cloudy regions at polar extremes have little choice. Start now!!!
Interesting article about German experience says it will be difficult to go 100% green.
Climate change demands zero greenhouse gases, not green energy. Somehow these two have become conflated. They should not be.
Skiing Gator
Only the Sith deal in absolutes.
Nuclear is the most expensive electricity, and that’s before dealing with waste for many thousands of years, and before dealing with the occasional nuclear disaster.
Why chose the expensive and dangerous option?
Good video, but for me the still unanswered question is can all of this battery storage at grid scale, economically. I get the appeal of storage technology, but is it realistic to deploy it? Are there any real world examples of it working as intended? I know about Hornsdale in South Australia, but that doesn't yet have enough capacity to do more than a small amount grid stability or load management.
The sheer amount of materials (especially the rare minerals needed) used to make those batteries, and the process of making them and the sheer amount of heat emitted from those batteries will definitely help us combat climate change.
Very interesting and informative video. Thanks.
Thanks Keith. Much appreciated. All the best. Dave
Loving your channel. I installed solar panels four years ago and save heaps on the electric bill and having a Tesla battery installed this summer to go off the grid or perhaps will add a smart meter to assist my small community.
Same here in Colorado, I installed 7.6 kw, am only using fraction of it myself. Was a fun project. Waiting for "smart" grid definition here in the USA. We have a Chevy Bolt. That turns out to be a huge cost saving machine over 10 years ownership.
You need to go completely off grid. Look up duck curve of solar output for why.
@@skiinggator I am waiting for the valley to generate high daytime energy, not there yet. The longer I wait, the better my options will be. All the solar is being used, eventually it will be better to charge batteries.
Even deplorable global warming deniers like myself should be pro-alternative energy, because we really wouldn't want all our eggs in one fossil-fuel basket. I'm also pro nuclear and pro energy in general. These are exciting times! Good video!
good someone sane. yes. nuclear. haha. leeezure.
That political Neanderthal you referenced is now the Australian Prime Minister... Even he couldn't believe he won.
I am a fan boy of Tesla, unfortunately there is much battery bank storage on the market. Our government will also not purchase electricity on home grid systems.
Luckily that may not be all that necessary. The amount of power in a home used by HVAC systems is massive. A better way forward is to build homes with much better insulation and smaller HVAC systems that would only need to run once a day. In that case they wouldn't need any batteries. Other systems like water heaters, clothes washers etc can be setup in a similar way. Reducing the amount needed in battery systems quite a lot and then you can take advantage of solar power for quite possible more than half of your usage without a grid tie in system. You simply switch over to the grid and your solar panels charge your batteries instead when you need more power. If you really need to wash some clothes at night that won't be efficient but you can still do it.
Hey thanks for the great video!
Thanks for your feedback. I'm delighted you liked the video. All the best. Dave
This drive towards a smarter grid has so much momentum behind it as to be inevitable, but if the forces of conservatism have their way, it will be later rather than sooner. That's why it's so essential that proponents for change keep a level head, look at the numbers and hold a logical standpoint - let's not go down the hysterical XR path and alienate people that would otherwise be converts to a smarter, cleaner world. Keep up the great presentations that help us navigate through this complex process:)
This vid and the previous have an audio problem? Too much base resulting in muddy sound. I like the new titles but the 2nd titles were my favorite so far.
always guarantee a great video
Yes!!!!
Have you or could you do a program on the liquid metal battery technology that has been developed by Donald Sadoway, a Canadian working at MIT. This looks like a better large scale storage solution than using lithium. The mining of lithium is having its own environmental issues.
During the first quarter of 2019 renewable energy generated more electricity than coal here in the US, the shift is happening.....slowly. Thanks for a very informative video.
No More War
I like the batteries that don't pollute the environment
Those "batteries" already exist. Like pumped-storage, heat storage ... Elon Musk's battery is a very misleading example here, it can not even last for 1 second for big cities like NY, LA, and much more expensive.
Excellent update on the global trends in renewable energy
You make it sound so wonderful, storing energy in batteries. What's the environmental cost of building millions, no billions, of these batteries worldwide? How long do they last? How much energy needed to dispose of them? They aren't the solution, they will become part of the problem.
What's the environmental cost of not building them?
Depends on the chemistry of the energy storage devices
@@scottverge938 Technology is adding to our problems not solving them!
@@skiinggator Obviously using the technology we currently have!
@@brucejoseph8367 current battery technology can't do it. Not even close to economically viable.
LiFePO4 batteries for home use, flow batteries for grid storage, large lithium for grid stabilization.
Lounge lizard, will their ever be a commercial battery recycling proces that actually does something useful with the lithium? Because if your burning trough all our lithium, what's the benefits for future generations?
Hi Rick. I don't think we 'burn through' it though. My understanding is that it's pretty much re-useable many times over.
What increase in in extreme weather events?
Interesting talk. Could it be that the title is a little bit of click bait? One of the reasons I really became interested in Tesla was that they had just started on the home energy and solar panel front as well, but it seems that they aren’t really moving this along. The solar panels were announced in 2016 and are still basically not rolled out. The batteries unfortunately never became available in my country, Ireland, so I eventually had to go with batteries by BYD. Maybe the Powerwall is available more readily in other European countries. Unfortunately I feel Tesla might be getting out of the domestic segment and focusing solely on their cars. I hope I’m wrong, but this seems to be the current direction.
Hi whk 71. Fair comment on the 'click bait' thing. You Tube has proven to be a pretty tough stomping ground for someone who is essentially delivering a message the no-one really wants to hear, so I do occasionally have to revert to lobbing in a noteworthy name or phrase into the titles. I agree with you about the slow roll out of Tesla's home solar. I think they were extremely ambitious with the whole 'solar tile' thing. Extremely expensive compared to standard solar panels. I'm pretty sure they'll continue to develop the technology but you're quite right to say that Elon's focus is on cars (and Mars). The former being a good thing, the latter being a bit mad in my view, but we shall see. Thanks for your support though. Much appreciated. All the best. Dave
My friend has a Tesla and his favorite thing is to make Facebook live videos everytime his car is running out of battery power.
Jolly good for him :-)
Thoughts deserve a Nobel Prize
Smart Grid is the solution for short energy fluctuations throughout the day. Every household could use a Tesla Powerwall or similar system to add up it to the grid storage.
How can we implement this as a sort of guerilla system as long as the fossil fuel lobby doesn’t take the right action? Are there applications ready to use in place yet?
Hi Stefan. The rapid adoption of electric vehicles over the next two years will in my opinion make smart grids inevitable and consumers will realise that there vehicles are just great big mobile energy storage devices that will do the same job as a Powerwall. The fossil fuel companies monopoly is definitely coming to an end now.
@@JustHaveaThink Hopefully the industry will provide viable solutions to apply. I live in a flat and don't own a car myself. I thought a Powerwall could be an option. However, I have pretty ambitious plans for CO2-negative energy production and soil enhancement on global soil and look for funding and support. Viable ideas are very much appreciated? :)
Nice....
What if you feel you have a great idea on renewable energy, but not the engineering skill nor financial backing to bring it to life?
Redflow Z Cell batteries are very interesting
What's so interesting about them?
@@johnbash-on-ger They are fire-proof, they don't degrade over time or if flat, they can be idled then resusitated, they can be expanded if needed.
@@linmal2242 Are you referring to this ZCell battery: www.zcell.com/ and redflow.com/products/redflow-zcell/
there are quite a few bots trying to sell doubt here, i say that means GOOD JOB with your information
Hi Joaquin. Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated. I agree about the FUD comments. We don't really have that over here in the UK so for me it's more of a quaint American curiosity than a serious challenge to the well established and well accepted facts that are being utilised all over the world (including the USA) to actually address the challenges of climate change.
Just wonder what the environmental cost might be in manufacturing the millions of battery's, wind farms and solar....what are the environmental cost when the battery's need to be recycled or binned. We have to remember we have a environmental crisis as well as a global warming crisis.
Solar cells are made from sand Silicon dioxide SiO2 to create Si -silicon so this is very environmentally friendly. You can recycle both batteries and solar cells.
@@klokoloko2114 silicon is definitely the way to go for PV. Less about efficiency and more about cost, availability, and full life cycle of the components. Couple with a cheap energy storage device for residential needs. Industrial and commercial uses will require nuclear power.
First off the threat of global climate change takes precedence over all other concerns - unaddressed it will lead to the death of BILLIONS of people, so get your priorities straight.
Secondly, lots of companies, like Tesla and Panasonic, are already working towards nearly 100% recyclablility, especially considering the limited supply of many of the elements.
Btw, these days most of the negativity and FUD you read about environmental damage from batteries is funded by the fossil fuel industry, as they have a vested interest in preventing or delaying the wholesale adoption of this growing technology.
@@skiinggator Exactly, the quickest way to get to zero greenhouse gas emissions (as far as the power grid is concerned) is to increase nuclear power, not reduce or eliminate as many countries are doing.
3rd Gen reactors are far safer than the old (practically antiquated) 2nd Gen reactors that exist in most of the world (includes every U.S. reactor), and with the upcoming 4th Gen reactors (likely available within the next decade) they'll be tens and even a hundred times more efficient, cheaper to build and maintain, and almost zero potential for suffering a meltdown.
And with the current breakthroughs in fusion, commercial reactors may ACTUALLY be ready for prime time within 20 years or less, which will be the Holy Grail of cheap clean energy.
Russell Popham also globally we are consuming resources like we have 2 planets and the biodiversity loss as we turn nature into cash as quickly as possible is breaking the web of life which we need!!
Extinction rates 1000 times higher than background rates as we pollute and strip the lands and oceans for our own end
We need less people consuming far less resources to have any hope.
Damned if we do damned if we don't ...and all the talk of trying to maintain the statues quo is delusional ....humanity is not above the web of life we are part of it tho most people forget or ignore the fact
Check a detailed video on the same topic on Real Engineering! It's with calculation.
Hi Tibor. Yes, that's a very good video (as Real Engineering videos always are). My only caveat is that they were a bit pessimistic about the economies of scale and only based their predictions on current technology and prices, all of which will improve dramatically as new tech is embraced globally. All the best. Dave
Have you taken a look at Energy Vault? Seems simple and claims 90% efficiency for storage. Please have a think about this method.
Hi Todd. Hadn't heard of that. I'll take a look. Many thanks. Dave
If things come down to cost - the various types of storage Flywheels 45c kwh, Li-On batteries 25cents, pumped hydro at 17cents is currently the cheapest and most widely used. Though not yet proven the Energy Vault system of cranes using concrete blocks backed by Bill Gross appears to come around 3.5cents kwh and uses less concrete than a dam per megawatt (also does not degrade over time and doesn't require special metals like cobalt or lithium. May I suggest doing a program on that? According to Gross they have 1200 potential orders of 35mwh storage vaults at $7million each though only Tata power seems to have one underconstruction. In any case 3cents storage combined with solar or wind is lower than the current Natural Gas plant at 5cents per kwh.
Bill Gross on Energy Vault ruclips.net/video/l93S99rkDg4/видео.html
Hi Peter. Is that the one where they push the block up an incline and then release it when the power is needed?
@@JustHaveaThink It is 6 cranes that build a tower with 35ton concrete blocks. Here is Bill Gross one of the founders introducing it. ruclips.net/video/l93S99rkDg4/видео.html
Here in Colorado our electrical grid is dominated by a multi state conglomerate that emerged out of the deregulatory environment of the Reagan administration. The power of state regulatory Public Utility Commissions were diminished as the power and wealth of these interstate monopolies grew. But as private corporations, investing in future infrastructure that would strand existing revenue producing assets while "gifting" future revenue producing investment to private households and businesses, seems a suicidal strategy to corporate directors, stockholders, and Wall Street financiers.
Combined with the allied power and money of the fossil fuel industries much of the investment has been in lobbying and public relation campaigns to defeat, delay, and diffuse public demand for a move to a renewable electrical grid. As with the misadventures with nuclear power plants in the 1980's, corporate utilities will look to the public to assume the risk and costs of developing infrastructure which the utilities will ultimately own and extract wealth from. The answer, considering the necessity and urgency of our circumstances, would be to condemn by eminent domain, the electrical production and distribution system as a public resource and rebuild the system to accommodate the demands of a changing world without regard to the overweighted and narrow interests of wealth extraction. Thanks Dave.
Hi Tom. Comprehensively and succinctly explained. I agree 100% with your view (albeit a fairly disheartening reality) Thanks for your contribution as always. All the best. Dave
@@JustHaveaThink
Serendipitously I am off to a XR strategy meeting where I plan to raise some of these issues addressed here. Thanks for the just in time inspiration from Just Have A Think.
Excellent! Good timing :-) . I hope the XR planning goes really well. Good luck.
We need to get away from the idea of a single solution. Batteries are great but they don't fix every problem. Seasonal storage is a bigger challenge to address at the moment.
You must have done this before, one way or another 😊 it’s a fantastic proff. show you have.
Hey, and 12.000, we are getting many 👍🏼 your a great guy, thank you.
Wow! Thank you. That's great feedback and much appreciated. I'm delighted the programmes are proving useful in some way. All the best. Dave
Personally I hope India can become no. 1 in renewable energies. We need to capitalise on renewable energy anyhow, given the coal is intoxicating everyone's lungs.
Hopefully the whole world goes renewable soon. Unless we can get some of that clean coal technology actually working where the CO2 is stored into the ground.
India must get its population under control or else there will be widespread famine and the world will be plagued by massive depopulation. Its only a matter of time and time will tell, to everyone's horror.
@@acmefixer1 Famine isn't really an issue, with enough energy production we'd be able to feed up to possibly a trillion people (though more likely would be limited to 100-500 billion). This is, if we transform the outside agriculture tradition to an indoor agriculture tradition. The food would just be maybe 1,5-2 times more expensive, thus for most crops this system just isn't profitable at the moment (due to energy costs, initial large scale capital investment for the building and manpower costs).
There is one very important part of battery storage that is not adequately discussed. A li-ion battery is not a install once and forget forever type of deal, you can only push so much energy through it before it's junk. That means the cost of energy from a battery becomes the cost of energy used to charge it, plus an amortization cost. So how much is that exactly? Well, anyone can do their own calculations, but lets just say I bloody well will not be buying any home battery storage any time soon.
NO ! Fossil fuels are how they charge the BATTERIES !
Very useful
Thanks Orane. Much appreciated.
South Australian battery is looking like it will pay itself off in under three years - load shifting has always been necessary - they are a gold mine - if you are a local council or community group look into it - lithium and rare earths supply will tighten & create externalities so I think there will be a next gen battery of some kind but for now an excellent opportunity & great disruptor - great channel BTW
So far the battery grid storage in is less than 1 or 2% actually needed. What is needed is larger and longer storage and pumped hydro is the most common but I'd suggest the Energy Vault system of cranes and concrete blocks is a potential solution as it is all existing tech, does not require special metals or earths, and can last for decades. In cost it is supposedly at 3.5cents per kwh which is 1/4 or pumped hydro. (Pumped hydro also requires elevation differential and water, not always available)
4:52 what do you mean "somewhat unreliable grid system". Do you have anything to back that up? The latest figures I've seen for reliability in the US better than 99.9% reliable. That's not to say that it couldn't use some updating to improve performance but justifying it through slander is just underhanded.
There are now other grid energy storage options that are on the market at a lower cost than Lithium Ion. ESS Inc, has a iron flow battery that is less than $100/kWh and NEC is about to bring Ambri's liquid metal batteries onto the market for even less.
How susceptible to damage by EM pulses are these? Sooner or later a massive EMP will cause major damage to the electrical grid. If bad enough, it may not be possible for the electrical companies to repair it in a relatively short span. It takes a lot of time to build the big transformers needed to keep electricity flowing and to distribute power to homes. Stored electrical power may be able to over come this hazard.
As an Aussie who lives with this. There is no doubt the battery switches on faster, how ever it is not a base load response. It has very limited life.
What is the actual life of that battery?
Ernst Zimmer thanks for the info 👍🏻
Of course it's not mentioned here that the current battery lifecycle is around 10 years.
Are tesla batteries hurricane proof?
Very pleasant interesting vid....subbed!
Smart grid+energy storage are definitely the way to go in the future. Not only it will be easier to make sure the demand for electricity is fulfilled, it also help renewable especially in this case solar to worked out, since having solar panels on each house is good not only in terms of land usage, but it also made each house becoming mini electricity generator that combined with smart grid and energ storage system will create amazing energy ecosystem.
Way to enable that is definitely the battery, which tesla is definitely accelerating right now. I can't wait for tesla to implement Maxwell's dry cell production technology into their lineup. Should that happen, not only their product lineup, but also other technologies that use battery in general will significantly improve better, faster, and cheaper.
Wendigo - do you realize that the smart grid is just a means of selective tripping you off line for a rolling brownout or non-payment? So far the smart grid has been used to spy on your energy usage and call in the SWAT team if they see that your energy usage at night is much higher than your neighbors so you are suspect of growing pot.
@@nonsquid Oh my, I grew weed inside my house. That's a no go I guess.
@@Arpin_Lusene Just don't whisper near the outlets and you should be fine.
Now, are Tesla batteries the holy grail of climate change? You never answered the question you posed in the the title.
Hi neddy laddy. Rhetorical question really - fiendishly devised to get you to watch the video (which looks to have worked). Thanks for watching. BTW the answer is 'No' - at least not on their own. But as part of a huge raft of other green energy generation and storage technologies, I think it just might be. All the best. Dave
@@JustHaveaThink ut Tesla batteries are only different in the brand that is stamped on them. I'm afraid that using the Tesla name merely makes you look like another fan boy idiot.
@@neddyladdy Tesla battery IP is superior. Cheaper with lowest cobalt and higher performance as independently assessed.
Will double charge cycles again and reduce costs with Maxwell acquisition.
Making unsubstantiated assertions make you look like an opinionated but vacuous idiot.
electrek.co/2017/05/04/tesla-battery-researcher-chemistry-lifcycle/
electrek.co/2019/02/01/tesla-patent-battery-cell/
ruclips.net/video/pAS-yjWj9DY/видео.html
What will states like England do with their lack of sun? What of states up north who can, at times, have days full of dark? Will there be enough storage capacity?
This is a genuine question.
They'll have to move to Africa, besides.... much better weather :) I'm in construction in Ghana if you are interested.
We have wind. Lots of offshore already, plus loads under construction. Also, tidal energy and ocean stream energy are being developed.
Actually, the UK just recently had its first day in about 150 years where it didn't use any coal for energy production - thanks to wind.
Hi MCA. It's a perfectly good question. As you'll see in some of the comments below, there's not going to be one single solution but a sort of 'Smorgasbord' of overlapping complimentary options that cover all eventualities at all times of day and night in all parts of the world. Battery storage is just one of them. A smart distributed grid is a another one, which although very expensive to implement will not only smooth out peaks and troughs in demand at a continental and possibly eventually even at a global level, but at a more esoteric level, it might in the long term even serve as a catalyst to help the human species learn how to play nicely together instead of bickering and fighting all the time. As a species I'd say we've got the collective mental age of about a 5 year old. If we are to survive into our teens and on into adult maturity, empathy, understanding and pragmatic co-operation will be the key. I'll be long gone by then, but I can still hope. All the best. Dave
When electric cars take over, what will happen to gas stations? That's a lot of real estate. I'd imagine it's difficult to decommission them safely.
My state only uses 4.7% is renewable I hope Arkansas and other states will move to renewable energy. I want is to live a long time without having to deal with damaging our planet
Tesla batteries?? Lithium batteries are FAR too expensive for grid power storage, much cheaper alternatives exist, since power density (mass & volume) is not much of a concern for grid power storage. It is possible that some 20 years from now there will be old Tesla batteries getting pulled out of junked cars, that still have enough capacity for useful power grid storage, and at a sensible cost.
@Chuck O No, Li-Ion is not at the top of the list .. pumped hydro is..
www.eesi.org/papers/view/energy-storage-2019#2
Li-Ion will be much more attractive 20 years from now, when a glut of recycled cheap EV car batteries are available that still have 70%+ capacity.... should be easy to devise a device to just plug those batteries in when delivered to the Power Grid company.
Hi Big Cooter.com Hydrogen Storage coming up this Sunday my friend. Some interesting stuff going on in this field too.
I just subscribed and will say once the new, yet old, technology I have been working on since 2006 hits the markets the swing towards energy independence revolution will begin. Interestingly it was the IMF and World Bank that put a stop to this technology back in 1969 but the technology simply refuses to die as for it to die means the stoppage of science and innovation as the technology goes much further than just making energy for the masses.
Hi Edward. Thanks for subscribing and for such insightful commentary. Despite the setbacks that you mention, it's still extremely encouraging to hear someone who has real world experience in the industry making such a positive assertion for the future of the the technology. All power to your elbow! All the best. Dave
@@JustHaveaThink This is the science behind Stanley Meyer's car that ran around with just water in it's fuel tank.
"Mitchell's Theorem - All Molecules can separated into their component atoms by taking away the electrons from the atoms that make up the molecules."
Strangely this need to know science is missing from our books of science and I think the IMF and World Banks are behind it's absence as surely someone had to have asked, "How does a plant break the bonds of the water molecules?" before me but if not I did and got the answer to that question. But as a safety issue we need to stop flying air planes into thunderstorms as that is the second example of this type of water separation taking place in nature.
nuclear energy with new cheaper reactors are the holy grail!!!
I think the biggest stumbling block for behind the meter or home battery storage is simply cost. Sure battery prices are coming down in EVs but we are not seeing that reflected in the home storage market. Demand for lithium batteries outstrips supply.
MondoTV Entrepreneurs refer to that stumbling block as “a gold mine of opportunity.”
Tysto And capitalism says when demand outstrips supply you can “charge” more for your goods. Until the balance changes prices will remain high.
I only worry that Li-ion batteries are too expensive for grid level storage of power,and whether battery manufacturers can keep pace with worldwide demand. Perhaps other battery technologies such as flow batteries would be helpful,more robust,and much cheaper.
Lithium batteries are good for about 500 deep cycles and can't be recycled Ni-Cad batteries can be deep cycled about 2000 or more times and 100% recyclable and 1/3 the price but are very heavy but for a house who cares.
@@rogerreimer6787 In that case.why doesn't Elon use Ni-cad for his powerpack battery in Australia? Size wouldn't matter there either.
A ham sandwich has more energy than a lithium battery.
There’s more energy in a gallon of gasoline than a liter of gasoline.
Maybe your mom should start eating batteries instead.
@@Apjooz I'm sorry the facts dont fit your narrative, another level of battery technology is needed.
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=medium.com/%40alen.ladavac/renewable-energy-in-transportation-were-doing-it-all-wrong-2d3aad05f197&ved=2ahUKEwicjsWagb3iAhUoIDQIHW6bA94QFjAJegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2BpHgu4siDwHjl4w6OLiET&cshid=1559004849321
@@Apjooz Wikipedia › wiki › Energy_density
Web results
Energy density - Wikipedia
I can't repeat this enough. In the future you will have GLOBAL ELECTRICITY NETWORK like internet today.
More than 50% will be from solar. When you in EU have day you produce electricity for your need and send rest to USA in dark trough HVDC (High Voltage Direct Current) submarine cables under ocean floor.
You have those cables for internet (optical cables).
It will be London- Newyork, Tokio to LA etc. North to South , West to East if we do not kill each other in nuclear war before that.
Also you can use Pumped-storage hydroelectricity (type in google). Hydropower storage is you pump water on some high mountain (higher the better) in artificial reservoir during day with solar energy and at night you produce electricity at the bottom. Same motor/generator send water on mountain and same motor/generator produce accumulated electricity during night.
For large scale accumulation it is better and cheaper than battery storage.
Unless the future happens quickly it will be too late.
@@deanscott4165 We can do it right now.
Also every EV car that is parked and not running (battery storage)can send excess power during night to national grid when is needed.
Kloko Loko I agree we can do lots of things but I don’t see them happening. The timeframe we have is short. I’m all for starting now but I’m just one guy.
Hi Kloko. Your description of global distributed energy is extremely compelling. We probably could have been there by now if the political will had existed 30 years or so ago. Let's hope we've got enough time to rectify our previous errors and get this initiative up and running. All the best. Dave
@@JustHaveaThink Thanks Dave, you channel deserve much more subs 👍
A small correction: the largest democracy in the world is far larger than India. It's the Federation of Russia, which also happens to be the largest country in the world.