Bought a 5600X in late 2020 when, as your review pointed out, there wasn't really a reason to buy Intel. Glad to see competition is back, only makes whatever future upgrade we get a better deal in the end.
I hate that AMD CPUs got so expensive. As an ITX user, Intel ITX motherboards are beyond expensive, so even though the CPUs might be good deals, it's still €400 with a motherboard.
@@chriswright8074 It's not about affording it, it's about a poor price/performance when playing at 1440p and 4K. Would rather save money on the rather irrelevant CPU and poor it into other stuff.
I see the i5-12400F listed for $179.99 USD. It's great to see some lower-priced competitive CPUs coming out. If only video cards would somehow get anywhere near reasonable, even if it was the used market.
I also checked motherboard prices for this new Intel 12XXX series and it's much more expensive than for Ryzen 5600X. So the end build isn't any cheaper actually lol.
@@epicmap It's not more expensive here at all. I got a bundle deal for 429 euro, 12400f, asus b660 prime d4, 16gb kit DDR4 3200 cl16 RAM. Whereas bundle deals or even worse, separately the 5600x all in is well over 500€.
@@sachinmajotra9665 Motherboards are as cheap as 130 with the cheapest chipset, midrange is 150-230, high end is 230 upward. Check your local shops. Just got a bundle deal to finally upgrade my FX 8320.
@@user-jc2in3cp3g except you lose more money on DDR5 or, if going ddr4, on buying second board when DDR5 will be a thing because otherwise Zen 4 will be in advantage of DDR5 compared to your setup
This is one of the best entry-level core i5's we've seen in a long while. Like, they've always been competent enough, but the 12400 is absolutely punching waaaaay above its weight. If this is what's pulling up the back end of gaming CPUs these days, the future is bright indeed.
I would argue with the "one of the best" statement.. got the 10400f for 145$ almost a year ago, which is like 20-25% slower in the worst scenerio (sometimes the difference falls down to 5% or less..), while this one has a higher power consumption, and a much higher price, especially in my country it won't dip under 200 in the near future (it's 250$ currently). Not to mention the motherboard which costs a lot more again, than the (for example) b460 before. And don't get me wrong, it's an awesome cpu, but in reality, it's nearly the same, as the 10400, but for a lot more, just the usual intel stuff..+5%-10 performance each generation with higher and higher power consumption. I like the "new" stock cooler though.
@@dgillies5420 the G version is a worse version though. You only get PCIe gen 3, "Vega graphics", and a weaker processor than the 5600X. If AMD did not compromise the CPU performance for internal graphics, it might have been a better deal.
I just bought this for under 150 with a board for under 120 (both with taxes included) This will be my beater system and BTW AMD can't touch PCI Express 5.0 = SORRY This also comes with a beefy cooler, which makes me smile. I COULD'VE gotten a 5600x for 180 (pretaxed) but I do not......do NOT like B550 - as a chipset. It's JUST Ok.
I still find it ridiculous to see the 5600X fixed at 300€ for 2 years straight... Hope the 12400 is a good enough reason to force AMD to drop the prices
They won't until they start sitting on stock. And they're currently selling their CPUs with the shrink wrap barely cold.... And the funny thing is that the average Joe thinks that Alder Lake is riddled with compatibility problems and that's why Intel are selling them cheaper than AMD.
@@andersjjensen They do decreased their prices here, in India where it used to sold for $400 currently priced at $260, yet i find intel is steal deal for $200 for non graphic version and $240 for graphic version.
1:22 Instead of mixing different types of cores within “Cores / Threads” row it’s, probably, better to show separate “P-cores / Threads” and “E-cores” rows (alternatively, single “P-cores (Threads) / E-cores” row).
I bought the 9400f when it was released and looking at the generations after it , I think the 400 class of cpus is generally the best value cpu of the year
Poor peoples cpu.. And what's the resale value of the 9400F vs 9600k/8600k? For a dollar per week you could have a much better cpu. Or you could have gotten a 9900 and kept it for or 3-4 years. Now you need to upgrade again, plus motherboard etc. That's expensive.
You should've got the Ryzen 5 2600X or 3600X at the time. Now you would be able to upgrade to a R7 5800X3D without changing anything else. Poor Intel fanboys.
*NO they didn't* You have to buy DDR5 to utilize this, since majority of DDR4 boards are out of stock or aren't very good at all. You have to buy an adapter for an older kind of CPU Cooler. I haven't read; to know my knowledge of any water coolers that are compatible with socket 1700. Seems like the Gen 10 is the 1 to stick with.
@Lungho guys stop justifying your purchases with stupid statments, who said that Ddr5 better performance is a lie and who said coolers doesnt fit, clowns.
@@kleinbottled79 Yes, and I believe the 12500 also has the newer UHD 770 graphics, for people that use those. That one seems worth the extra $10 compared to this 12400.
@@jomeyqmalone12500 or 12600 might be the ultimate 'sweet spot' chip for gamers on a budget this generation. Hope they release them soon. For those who can't wait 12400 seems more than acceptable.
AMD pricing is totally f*cked rn, even on the used market. What’s wrong with people? People buy used ryzen 3 3100 for 125$… A new ryzen 3 3600 is slightly more expensive than the 12400. I get it that ryzen 5xxx destroyed intel at launch and matched intel’s 11th gen with lower power consumption. But people seem to think, that if something has „Ryzen” written on it, it’s the best they can buy :/
I mean, look at a few years ago. People see "Intel Core" and they think it's the best. They switched places a while ago because AMD stopped providing options for the lower budget market. Hopefully this gives AMD an incentive to cater to the lower end market again for competition.
It's because there's this crypto that mooned a couple months ago that exploits L3 cache. And all modern Ryzen processors, at least since Ryzen 3000, have loads of it. Apparently the R9 3950X is the best one for this kind of stuff, and you can tell because it costs way more than the way better, way faster 5950X. BTW, the 3600 is a R5, not an R3.
that was the case for intel first lol. now its reversed. i don't understand why AMD keeps prices high on 5000 but oh well. i already got my 5600x for 290 euros a while back so im not complaining
Very useful information, thank you. Glad to see a good uplift in performance from previous i5. For me currently the 12400F is about 260usd and the cheaper lga1700 motherboards are around 250usd locally so I'll have to wait a bit until prices settle as a 10400f is about 190usd and a good b560 are about 130usd. Meanwhile a 5600x is around 370usd. Not easy to sort a great value system in the current markets considering I only have a 1070ti for graphics that I'm running with 4th gen i7 and surviving OK at 1080p. Anyway thank you for keeping us informed and updated on the latest tech
5600g is $260 and the GPU is 2x faster, it plays most titles at 1080p. Intel leaves you high and dry with their strictly-VGA iGPU, which hasn't improved since 2013 ....
@@dgillies5420 wat... He just said he has a 1070Ti. Why would he have any use for the iGPU of the 5600G? If you're looking just for CPU gaming performance, the 12400F makes so much more sense. He should even see a pretty notable uplift to frame rates at 1080p seeing as he's more CPU bound at that resolution
Probably worth noting that the entire package cost is likely going to be a factor. AM4 motherboards are generally cheaper and DDR5 is very pricey at the moment. Good to see intel is finally competitive again and hope they come with cheap and capable motherboards as well.
Looks like a very promising option for budget gamers once availability and prices of B660/H670 boards have calmed down. I'm happy to see Intel finally being able to compete in performance, price and efficiency. Good times for customers!
The higher cache of the 12700F almost seams to be worth the extra price, however given that AMD is about to come out with a higher cache version of their CPUs, it might be more of a waiting game to see which CPU will be better in the long run. At this time both are switching to new socket designs, however only AMD is proven to stick with a design for multiple generations making the ability to purchase once and upgrade multiple times a good value.
@Eric Yes but it has shown that mid tier Ryzen parts from the first and second generation and sometimes the third generation can bottleneck the GPU. Some people are wasting money by putting a 3080ti into a computer with a Ryzen 2600, when a 3070 with a 5600x could net overall better performance depending on the game. There are many that rode the wave of Ryzen from 1800x to 5800x with one motherboard change between.
@Eric My 3800X bottlenecks a 3060TI in a number of games at 1440p. Getting a 12700K was night and day. Not to mention significantly better 1% lows. Any Ryzen CPU pre 5000 series was quite bad compared to Intel when it came to gaming in CPU bound situations. So imagine how bad a 3080 and newer gen cards will be. I went Intel because my wife wanted my setup so it was better value getting the 12700k over the 5800X when building from nothing
next step is cheaper mobos, cpus already look good. and for now its probably more reasonable to go for ddr4, since ddr5 is very overpriced for those performance gains it deliver
This. And give us some cheaper ITX options please. Trying to build my stepdad a small form factor workstation around a 12400 but the itx board prices are crazy at ~$300 starting. (And currently sold out too.)
Good review Steve and good that Intel have responded to AMD's Ryzen dominance. Competetion in the market is great for final end users. Keep up the great reviews.
Sounds like the paper launch has been replaced with a failure to launch. Intel looking good again is pretty nice, maybe AMD should throw something at the lower end now too.
Yeaaaah probably won’t be able at least until end-of-the-year…. And imo, best you can hope for is probably relaunching the older Zen 2 and maybe Zen 3 processor, as lower-end. Is that what you want? This is because they are relying on TSMC and the chiplet-style of AMD processor, means that there is just no incentive on making lower SKUs, and taking up precious chiplets that can be used to make 5600X or better. Its different from Intel’s architecture and creation style, not to mention Intel control its own fabs so all those capacity is currently only for Intel. Yes, customer don’t care but that’s the reality for AMD, definition of “suffering from success”. And with that, since Zen 4 will be using newer TSMC process….. which means limited capacity and fighting for space with other GPU and mobile too…. expect AMD to only launch 5600X-equivalent or better.
@@ArchusKanzaki Intel and AMD keep making those really cheap CPUs (Celeron/Athlon) that go into crappy cheap laptops made for students that no one deserves to use. They are making cheap CPUs for people with no money and forcing people with money but are on a budget to buy something more expensive. Companies exist because of their customer base and should be mindful of that. But when people like you so readily accept their BS, there is no incentive for them to do better.
Why should AMD? if AMD wanted to release low-end SKUs, they would have done it few months ago. But until right now you still couldn't see R5 5600 non X with 32MB cache, R3 5100/5300x with 16 MB cache. Guess what? They started to consider releasing new Agesa for 300 series Motherboard to support 5000 series, because they are afraid of 300 Series motherboard user would just switch to Intel instead of buying 5000 series CPU. AMD is your friend? NO, fucking NO, it's a BUSINESS COMPANY who loves moneys
@@Gaur8n AMD repackaged older Zen cores (as in Ryzen 3000-series laptop processor, not the Zen 2 Ryzen 4000), for their “new” Athlon Silver 3050U for their budget range of laptop. They’re not even making one based on Zen 2 yet as far as I can google. At least with Intel, they just released Pentium and Celeron-line of Alder Lake, with only 1 or 2 Performance cores. Also, its good for you then that only Intel actually releasing budget range so be happy?
Very good review, really enjoyed watching it! Hopefully you test the 12100(F) as well. I guess this might be the king of kings in terms of budget gaming.
Price of 12400 is $50 less than 5600X in my country, but the cheapest B660 is $50 higher than cheapest B450 (CPU overclockable). So I think they are tie atm.
I'm glad you mentioned B450 as most ignore it when thinking of a 5600X comparison, but B450 is still a valid choice, half the cost of an H610 or B660, or indeed most B550 boards. This parity won't last forever though. AMD ought to see beyond its short term sales as otherwise the rep it's built up from Zen onwards will fade, but it's probably hard to do that due to investor pressure.
I think the b660 chipset should be better compared with the x570 chipset, due to the low overclocking headroom in modern cpus, and that the chipset bandwidth is the same. The b450 chipset only has a pci gen 3 x4 link to the cpu, as compared to gen 4 x4 for the x570 and b660, and gen 4 x8 for the z690.
Other channels did the same gaming comparison and got very different results, like in Hitman 3 and Horizon Zero Dawn, where the 12400 actually beat the 5600x, But they used a GeForce card. Please upvote so Steve can see this!
how does it suprise you there are so many variables when testing stuff like that. Still very comparable results, a few frames more or less in some games just happen when you use different hardwar/software/drivers etc..
It might be the driver side software scheduling on the geforce card putting more load on the cpu, so multithreaded cpu performance becomes more important
@@ben_ger1988 we are not talking about +1/2% variation. Igor's review has a 6900xt like this review but data are completly different. In Horizon in this review 5600x is +23% better than 12400 when in all other reviews 12400 is always better or equals. The same happens on Hitman 3 and other games. This review is the only one in wich 5600x beats 12400, you can check all the others.
@@Smallman647 Igor's test seems bit ridiculous to me, 800 Euro motherboard in case of 5600X, uknown settings, it seems like 5600X is with PBO but it's not stated anywhere so there is also weird power consumption. I'm still waiting for some decent tests.
@@SUST-RWM yes in Igor's review there is pbo enabled for 5600x. But there are at least other 3-4 reviews (tom's, guru3d etc.) in wich 12400 is on pair or slighty better than 5600x. HU review is the only one in wich you see huge gains of the 5600x vs 12400 so there is something wrong with this review.
When I compared a B550+5600x and a B660+12400 combo last week the price in my region was almost the same! I have seen several good B550 motherboards on sale for 100-120€ while the B660's start at 175€. Add to this that it's a bit hard to fin compatible coolers for LGA1700 at the moment and it's not a "no brainer" to go with the 12400 at the moment. Need to see a few B660's around 140€ where I live for the 12400 to be a clear winner.
Especially because you can get a secondhand B450 or B550 for 50-80€ and even Amazon Warehouse has plenty (if available.) I've also seen secondhand 5600X for 220€ and below. All things that just aren't possible with B660 and 12400(F).
I did a similar check just now. If one doesn't need the differentiation that B550 provides (which most don't) then a B450 is even better value. In Sep/2020 I built a 5600X gaming PC for someone (with a refurb GTX 1080, because new SKUs are stupid) using a cheap MSI B450 Mortar Max, which worked extremely well. Likewise, I built for myself at the same time a 5600X on a B450 Tomahawk Max II, the mbd was just 60 UKP new, ie. about 72 Euro (still available atm from Ebuyer UK with free next-day delivery). For gaming there's nothing essential B550 provides, while the value from B450 is excellent. If such had been available I for sure would have bought a 5600 instead, or indeed a 4c 5500X but there's still no such thing. However, this gap is certainly closing. Atm H610 and B660 pricing is kinda high, with a rather limited mbd feature set, but if pricing comes down then AMD will seem less appealing for sure, especially given some of the performance differences. I wonder though, for AMD, whether it's simply the case that, so long as overall demand remains high enough such that they can sell every 5600X they make, then they just don't need to drop pricing or release something more sensible like a 56003D or tweaked 5650 non-X, ie. the 5600X will continue to sell just fine based on existing reputation, despite the 12400F being more logical sans mbd/cooler cost. The demand side of the market is so distorted atm, it's messed up the way in which these competitive forces would normally function.
12400f is the new budget king. Where I live 5600X costs 330usd, entry lvl B550 110usd, while 12400F costs 220usd and B660 costs 170usd so the Intel package us 50usd cheaper while performing very close to 5600X. The stock 5600X cooler makes clocks run 200-250MHz slower in cinebench vs a good aircooler, while 12400f can run full speed at stock cooler. Overall I would say 12400f is the winner in bang for bucks, while 5600X is slightly faster, especially if you use CO and a better cooler, I currently own both.
Holy shit, prices are crazy for you! I've seen 5600X secondhand for even below $250 and B450/B550 boards for below $80. They frequently end up in that range from Amazon Warehouse too.
I bought a B450 instead (this was last Sept.) which was almost half the cost of the cheapest B550, runs great with a 5600X. One doesn't need B550 for gaming, but I understand why one might default to that for a pricing comparison now. If H610/B660 pricing can drop to anywhere near similar levels then AMD will seem less appealing for sure (the B450 I bought, an MSI Tomahawk Max II, is still available new for just 60 UKP from Ebuyer UK with free next day delivery), though I suspect so long as demand remains as high as it currently is, AMD won't drop pricing because they just don't need to, ie. if they can sell every 5600X they can make anyway. The market is really messed up atm compared to normal supply & demand pressures.
@@b0ne91 live in Norway, we sometimes get really crap models of B550 for 80usd, but mostly it's 100+ usd. Some good B450 can be had for 80-90usd so that can be a good option. The cheapest B660 are 140usd, but I would not buy those.
1:05 Why does everyone call the 5600G "unappealing"? it's a decent CPU and a great iGPU for this current GPU market. For me, right now, the 5600G as a placeholder for a better 5000 CPU later on (when people are going to sell them cheap to jump to 7000 or Raptor Lake) is the best Ryzen path to take. Maybe 5950X too, for certain users, but that's a niche in itself.
Because AMD is charging more for essentially just a slightly better CPU than the overclocked 3600 after 3 years. Not to mention GT 1030 graphics performance can be had for $20 before the GPU market went to hell. Heck, people were giving away GT 1030s for free at that time. Charging $260 for basically a $200 CPU in 2019 and GT 1030 performance means AMD is taking advantage of the GPU situation with the APUs as well. APUs can't be used for mining so it isn't an excuse to scalp customers just because GPU prices are expensive. It may not cost as much as a scalped GT 1030, but it cost way more than it should as a APU. Like the 5600X, it is overpriced at MSRP and should have cost $230 at least considering price to performance in the CPU market did not stagnate. It's still a consideration in this market but don't pay $260 for this, you'll just be scalped by AMD. If you have realized, AMD Radeon have been pricing their products based on the market. RX 6600 series and 6500 XT and even this. Though, doesn't make sense to price an APU based on the scalped GPU market because it can't mine. I guess you're being scalped less going with a 5600G than a GT 1030. That said, it's the only decent APU on the market so it still does have it's market. Maybe, that's why AMD priced it higher. And also it can't be too much cheaper than the 5600X. It could be a rollercoaster effect from overpricing the 5600X at $300. A 3600 + GT 1030 used to cost at most $220-230 back in the day. Now the 3600 is still at its MSRP thanks to AMD overpricing the 5600X that the 3600 offers better price to performance. The same combo would probably cost $300 nowadays. So the 5600G at $260 is a better deal than the 3600+GT 1030 now but it still inflated. And it's been almost 3 years since the 3600 came out.
why would anyone buy a 5600g then upgrade to another 5000 cpu? its stupid i never get how AMD fanboy have no problem upgrading their shit every year to the same shit for little % gain but have a major ass pain when it comes to intel that is literally the same if you upgrade on the same socket
@@person1745 now that Raja Koduri is at Intel, my only hope is that Intel will want to enter the apu market as well and give us an Intel APU that could atleast game like a GTX 1050TI, Intel have no gpu market so its good advantage for them and wont cannibalize their own non existent gpu segment. Also i have more faith in Intel in their pricing standards than shitty AMD that literally doubled their cpu price over 2 generations lmfao this i5 12400 reminds me of the very first i5 750, same price good performance that every gamer would want if AMD were to monopolize i think we would have to pay $1000 for a ryzen 5 in a few more years while Intel still maintain its price after 12 gen thats some real dedication right there
So I think the takeaway from this is if you already have an AM4 board that supports 5000 series chips (soon to be all of them?) then the 5600/5800/58003D is a smart choice. If your on an older socket or platform then going with the Intel LGA 1700 is a good choice. Id be hard pushed to recommend anyone buys into AM4 right now. Especially with AM5 around the corner and the new intel socket supporting DDR5. However the price of the new intel chipsets and the RAM is a bit crazy right now!
I would love to see a video on these CPUs with a slower gpu and higher resolutions like you said. Kind of like the RX 6800 + 10400F video you did at the start of 2021. Gonna be honest, I manily want to see this video to validate my 10400F purchase, but it could also be useful for new buyers to see where they can save money if they're going 1440p.
Thanks for posting some gaming benchmarks I'll go for the 5600x instead of the 12400f! The Intel chip + motherboard is only £40 cheaper here in the UK from what I can see. Cheaper CPU but expensive motherboards!
I got a 5600X, but I'm glad to see this. This will keep AMD in check. It's also great to see a product being released (roughly) a year after 5600X and being cheaper and quite competitive.
@@Steven-fv8xw yeah but the way news cycle works, is that they will be fighting against the latest generation, so Zen 4 might beat Alder Lake, and then Raptor Lake might beat Zen 4, and so on and so forth
@@malathomas6141 If its the same time. I thought someone said that there will be difference of few months inbetween? Meanwhile their current stop gap is 5800X3D which apparently may beat 12900K, in which Intel launching 12900KS to counter back.
AMD continues to not lower the 5600x to $229. That price has been a sticking point for how long now.. Thanks amd for making Intel wake up. I hate Intel and am impressed with the efficiency and value here (in a vacuum of course because everything is weird with availability). I'd be happy to start recommending Intel pending any secret security vulnerabilities yet to be discovered lmao
Just bought a Ryzen 5 5600 + ASUS B550 Plus Prime Motherboard for $230 USD at Microcenter. According to NexusGamer, I don’t need to pay extra just for that “X” to be printed on my CPU. After watching this, definitely feeling like I got a heck of a deal!
Really curious how this thing handles emulators. I imagine the lower cache would result in considerably more stutter vs the 5600x even if average fps were comparable. That's my experience with the 10400 at least.
@@ghostedsuicide I have compared my 5600x/4x8gb 3200cl16 system vs a 10400/2x16gb 2666cl21(?) system using Switch emulators and while the average fps is in line with what the benchmarks would suggest, the big drop in cache size and memory speed results in a hefty increase in random stutters, loading times between menus etc. Can't do an apples to apples comparison unfortunately so can't say how much of that is due to the cache, how much is due to worse memory.
@@Diwwah that's really just my conjecture based on my own testing. The increase in stutters was much greater than the loss in average fps between the systems which I attributed to the system choking elsewhere than just IPC. The subject could definitely use proper empirical testing by HUB. I'm sure there's lots of interesting data to be uncovered.
I don't think people understand this, the 5600X was released 431 DAYS ago and is able to keep up new launches from Intel today. Pretty impressive from AMD tbh although they did demand a little premium.
Don't forget ti consider the fact that Intel produces their chips in their own production factories as they had problems solving issues with the production process of 12th Gen one and a half years ago, also amd getting their chips produced by tsmc just simply proves Intels superiority in the long run.
Not sure how's the pricing for alder lake in your regions, in my region Alder lake is being scalped to the moon 150% to 200% MRP on all things, motherboard, ram, cpu. AMD build is significantly cheaper here with 5800x going for as low as 300$ right now in local market. i5 12th gen is at 450$ to 500$ here
Which cooler(s) did you use for testing? Did you use stock coolers? Or an AIO? Your video seems to show an AIO but you don't mention one in your Test System Specs segment. I know you mention the performance of various coolers in the Temps section when testing Cinebench, but you don't seem to cover it earlier.
I only updated to DDR4 about 5 months ago. My plan is to upgrade to DDR5 about 5 or 6 months before DDR6 is introduced or when they decide the letters DDR are obsolete... :p
They already did it at least in US. 5800X received massive discount, and 5600X also become more competitive from price perspective, but honestly speaking without decent inexpensive mobos for LGA1700, 5600X still looks like a competitive solution to 12400 considering not CPU price alone, but the whole CPU+Mobo bundle.
@@snowmean1 your argument made no sense at all, ddr4 boards for lga1700 looks the same price with a am4 zen3 board, stop comparing with those high end ddr5 that nobody will buy. in fact you could get a i5+mobo for the same price of just a 5600x everywhere
These new lower end CPUs look like a decent upgrade if you don't have an AM4 platform. I hope that we get more motherboard reviews of the B660 lineup especially since the previous review mentioned that not all B660s will allow for unlimited PL2 timing.
@@loucipher7782 I think there is an announcement that with a future aegsa update some AMD 300 Chipsets will support ryzen 5000. Pretty sure this is to stop those users from jumping to B660.
@@TheDaNuker do you have an official link or something? last time i check fanboys claim that it was months ago and AMD openly stopped mobo manufacturers from releasing 5000 bios on 300 boards so all the manufacturers had removed them, nobody can do it without bricking their own boards or its just experimental at best. Its official AMD do not support it, now im now sure unless i see an official announcement or it never happened Fanboys words cant be trusted at all, they cant magically make my mobo have magic powers lol
Great video mate. I have one question if i can ask. In my country the ryzen 5600x is 20% cheaper at the moment. should i buy it or go with intel? Considering that intal can be paired with ddr5 and amd cant. thank you
@@ahmetikbal8652 IDK, might still suck pretty bad compared to last gen on even PCIe 4.0, hopefully it's better than the sidegrade I expect it to be, but I won't be holding my breath for it 😆
Showing 10 game average fps is a very flawed metric. It is biased towards games that run at high FPS. Eg a 10% lead in a gaming running at 100fps is going to contribute 10x more than a 10% lead in a game running at 10 fps. You should be normalising the performance per game before averaging.
@@sage4670 Per game set the 12900k as the baseline and work out what % of that all the other CPUs get. Then average the % between games. At the end you’d get relative performance which is easier to interpret anyway. Eg processor A gets 100fps and 10fps while processor B gets 110 fps and 9 fps. Just averaging gets you 55 fps average vs 60 fps average. If you normalise performance, processor B gets 110% and 90% fps relative to processor A. Average 1.1 and 0.9 and you get 1 which is equal relative performance.
5600x is price around $170 right now. Pair it with a decent b550 board, this combo has a much better value compare to the same performance combo on the intel side.
Just went with an 11400f days before the Alder Lake launch. Although there's clearly a performance uplift I missed, I don't feel I missed out on bang for buck at all.
I'm about to get the 11400f in a few days then found this video just now (and your post). Are you not worried about future upgrades, since, the RAM stick to be specific is DDR4, and that we are now transitioning to DDR5?
@@rcane6842 DDR4 will still be effective for a long time to come. Eventually DDR5 will be significantly better for some tasks, but by the time high speed low latency DDR5 is affordable for gaming we're probably talking about 2 or 3 CPU generations down the track. If I was looking at upgrading ram as well, then it might have made sense to wait to buy an Alder Lake CPU and DDR 5 motherboard. But that would have more than doubled the cost of my upgrade, meaning I probably wouldn't have bothered, and hung on to my 2600 for a bit longer and seen what AMD fought back with. When I do my next upgrade there will still be people happy to buy my 11400 and 16 gb ddr4 3200 at a reasonable price.
The total cost between the 2 platform is basically the same. Even tho the 12400/F is cheaper you have to count for the mobo price whis is almost double for a decent one. You can get a good B550 for about 100€ or even less, and that's without talking B450. With intel the current minimum to get a decent motherboard is almost 200€ if not more (DDR4 that is). So it basically make for all the price difference, but offering lower performance compared to a 5600X. The only advantage I see in the i5 is being a new platform and having Pcie5 support.
Not really, if you judge the same feature set, the difference is about 50$, not 100$. B660M Mortar for example is at least as good as B550M Mortar, which is about 50€ cheaper here. Overall, Intel still wins, but definitively not that convincing as the CPU comparison itself would imply.
@@mirceastan94 I don't really consider MATX mobos tbh, especially in this price range when I can get a full ATX one, but a B660M mortar can be bought for about 250€ where I live, where as the B550M Mortar is about 150€ (even less). A decent ATX B660 is about 200€ (same cost as a Z690s, making buying an B or H mobo kinda a waste of money imo), while a good B550 can already be found (notice, can, not that you'll walk into the first amazon link and get it) for under 100€. As an example today I saw an offer for a Gigabyte B550 AORUS Pro V2 for 98€. You're not gonna find anything with a similar feature set on intel for the same price, as of now at least.
@@Slash402Plus You forget something very important - B660 was barely released, give them at least one month. Need I remember you how much B550 cost 2 years ago?
@@mirceastan94 Infact I specified "as of now" in the end. If in one month prices will lower maybe it might become a better value. But now it is not, and in a very short time these CPUs will become kinda useless considering in less than a year AMD will show their new platform (and probably Intel will do too). Either prices of mobos will go down in a short time (eg. 2/3 months at max) or it won't be a good investment anymore to upgrade to this platform imo (which I would do only if needed anyway). I'd like to clarify I'm not defending either of the brands, I think AMD pricing is ridiculous and made purposely to fuck the consumer because there was no competition at the time, I'm myself in need of an upgrade but if these are the current prices I'm more prone in getting a 12600kF (+Z690) than a 12400F.
This is great for new systems (AMD does have the upgrade advantage), just hope volume keeps up and those good budget boards arrive soon. We needed more competition, now we got it! 😃
Is there any possibility of adding different applications to the benchmark list. Many of them are rendering applications that do almost the same. Adding something like Soliworks or Catia would make these tests a bit more complete.
@@user-wq9mw2xz3j Her computer was built for gaming today and tomorrow. I wanted some room to grow. Also got her a 3060 TI. She should be solid for the next 4 years.
Got a 10700k which is similarly priced to 5600x ( cheaper in my region ) and games don't even use it completely in 2160p 60fps. My 2080 is handling this resolution and fps well with most on high. Need to up gpu in 2022-2023 and swap cpu in 2-3 years when ddr5 ram gets cheaper and more streamlined.
Question: With the current and forseeable future of GPU prices in mind. Is it really smart to buy a CPU with no integrated GPU? If you are on a budget + more likely an older GPU, you can throw your PC out the window if your GPU dies. That GPU will not be easily replaced. I can not recommend the "F"-version right now. Your thoughts @Hardware Unboxed.
It's a good point. If you have any iGPU, you can at least run GeForce Now and Stadia if your GPU has problems. If you have a 5600G/5700G you can still play ANY game at 768p
Why wouldn't you? Integrated graphics are generally shit. You can get GT710 for like 20-25$. So if something goes wrong, getting a gpu just so you have something to actually display the imagine is not a problem. It is not like you can game on intel integrated graphics at comfortable fps anyway. If you want a semi decent integrated graphics then 5600g is the only viable option currently.
Statisticly its not worth it paying in advance for an integrated gpu you are very likely never going to need, just because something of equivalent power to intel igpu is 50-100€ atm. for the unlikely event that your gpu fails. Some risks are worth taking, dont "overinsure"
To me, "cut down" means stuff in the silicon disabled (e.g. 8-core silicon with 1 or 2 bad cores, so sold as 6-core part). I don't think i5-12400 is a "cut down" part. I think Intel is making separate, smaller-die parts for these, and I think they'll sell cut-down versions of these as i3 and Pentium. I don't think AMD has made any dies with less than 8-cores in multiple years now, and so with good yield, they won't have any low-end parts to sell.
@@Radovanslav Only pre-Zen2 APUs were 4-core dies. Zen2 (4050-series) and Zen3 (5000-series) APUs are all 8-core dies. Now, the specialty APUs like the ones in SteamDeck are using 4-core dies, but I'm not aware of any PC parts like that. I don't know if 3000-series APUs are still in production. I guess that's possible, since they're made by GF, not TSMC.
Why is it so much slower than the other alder lake parts? I expected it to be on par/a little slower than the 12600k in games :/ It's barely any faster than the old parts
It's basically same or even better performance than the 5600x while being 30% cheaper what else do you expect 😐 why would it be on par with a 12600k at a much lower price if they wanna make profits.
Power limit isn't great at 117W max turbo, the i7 goes all the way to 190W, and the i9 turbo all the way to a stupid 241W limit. High end Alder Lake pretty much requires a PSU upgrade I'd stick with 10th gen
@@toast1797 the i7 is no problem. It's actually about as hard to cool as 5800x eventhough it's using 60w more on maximum load. The i9 is just stupidly over boosted. However i9 non-k could be good as they don't clock those so hard
I am looking at getting a new computer and this video has been very helpful. I am curious about the temperature test. Specifically, the I5 12400 has a maximum clock speed of 4.4GHz but even with an aftermarket cooler the clocks for each core did not exceed 4GHz despite the cores being quite cool. The 65W limit was removed from the CPU according to the video. Does this mean that the upper limit of speed for this processor is 4GHz at "maximum turbo power"? Do the other I5 chips (other than the "k" versions have the same limit? Thanks in advance for any responses.
Does 12400 support AVX-512 ? because intel were talking about disabling it. I am interested in AVX-512 support since RPCS3 ( PS3 emulator ) gets approximately 20% performance uplift which is quite useful in such ludicrously CPU heavy application ( would love to see it as CPU benchmark).
It supports it on current motherboards and BIOS. Its only a rumor that future BIOS updates will remove it. So if you buy one now youre guaranteed to get AVX512
@@arenzricodexd4409 Yes, as long as the card is good for mining. I am not a GPU engineer but I hope that intel sees that if they can release a GPU that sucks for mining that they have a great opportunity to gain some market share in the gaming community. I don't know what is and isn't possible in that way, I just hope.
I'd be interested to see how much difference the extra clock speed on the 12500 makes vs. the 12400, assuming of course the 12500 isn't OEM only and we can actually buy it.
This might be a weird question but is there any difference between F and non-F version of a CPU when it comes to temp? or does the integrated GPU still exists on the chip and is just turned off (makes no sense but you never know how companies think, especially Intel)
lol intel didnt give two shits about AMD intel price had always been the same since fkin gen 1 this should however keep greedy AMD price in check look how overpriced the 5600x/5800x is then now its crumbling down you should thank intel instead intel is the only reason you can soon upgrade your shitty ryzen without paying double
its sad that amd did not launch a 5600 non x which would be better. Hope this price to performance ratio delivered by intel increases the competition for amd and intel so that they launches good budget cpu
More like that was AMD intend to do. They keep older part occupy the lower segment with the same price then increase the 6C/12T price to $300 instead of pushing it further down. They need to show investor increased profit margin to push stock price higher.
@@gloomytony9560 yep companies only care about profit. And I only care about my budget and performance. Also cpus are still ok but man the gpu prices are like joke only due to high gpu prices I couldn’t built my pc and I’m waiting for more than a year
@@gloomytony9560 Yep I thought that after I go to college I would finally build my first gaming pc but that remained as a dream. The only thing I can do is to wait for the prices to go down. I have intel hd 620 which is worst and I can't play any games on it. 😭
Idk about the 7700k but i had a ryzen 2600x that had bad frame drops in assassins creed odysessy. I upgraded to a 5600x and that fixed alot. No fame drop spikes. Halo and assassins creed ran better. And upgraded other rigs with the parts :) I don't know how the 2600x and 7700k compare though. I suggest buying the GPU first then upgrading the CPU if you feel you are not getting everything from the GPU.
i upgraded the pc of my son from an 7700k to an 12600k(both at 5ghz and with ddr4 3600 cl14) and my boy dosent see any valuable difference while gaming with an 1080ti @2100Mhz(around 3060ti performance) at 1440p ..... he is really disappointed(just because was his money =) but like i said to him(even before upgrade) this benchmark with an cpu paired with top of the line gpu(and even at 1080p) its just very very misleading with the only purpose to maximize differences
In the UK the 5600x looks about the same price incl mobo with the 12400. Given the likely hood if the GPU not going to be high end with these cpus you are likely to have the same performance between them. Would have been interesting to see the results using the box coolers for both AMD and intel.
cooling fan are cheap, nobody should use box coolers lol when i look at 5600x price i rather just get a new intel+mobo i get tons of extra nvme slots too
Overall makes me feel pretty good about paying $150 for a 3600 on my last round of upgrades.. and makes the next upgrade look like it's going to be a good bang-for-buck spot too. At least for the CPU. The GPU... well....
Hope to see tests on a larger set of games in future. What is resulting in it lagging behind 5600x on the whole (Except a few wins) for games while it seems to be consistently ahead for non-gaming workload? This was the case for Zen 2 vs Skylake variants due to latency, but for 12400 without the e cores, the hybrid architecture should not be the problem here?
I agree that Intel is firmly in the lead in terms of value but it is by only about $65 when you consider motherboard costs. In the US, a 5600X costs $289 plus $115 for a MSI B550-A Pro (which is a very solid board all round) so Motherboard plus CPU for AMD is $405. For Intel a 12400F is $180 plus $160 for the cheapest board worth buying is $340. So Intel is $65 cheaper which is very significant but still leaves plenty of circumstances where AMD makes sense especially since AMD's best value at this price bracket allows for CPU overclocking and tuning unlike what Intel allows you to do. Overall Intel is the better choice but if you don't have to upgrade now there will always be better things coming like AMD's Zen 4 and AM5 platform. And by then DDR5 prices should make sense and be worth buying.
You don't really need a b550 to run a 5000 series processor as some b450 already comes capable out of the box. That should shave some of the unnecessary cost
Best value ME ASSS 5600x + b450 Mortar is 350$ and i5 12400 + the cheapest motherboard z690 in new egg is 400$ so you pay50$ to join intel beta testing as it is with any new product in newegg b450 mortar is arond 80$ very solid board just do bios update , i got me for around 55$
In REAL WORLD USE, most games are almost unnoticeably different when you are comparing CPU. It’s really the GPU making the difference, and even then, without benchmarks, it’s very difficult to differentiate unless you are on a 4K monitor so long as you’re at 60 fps or higher. Just about any 8-core CPU is acceptable.
You dont know what you are talking about. CPU's can and will make a huge difference if you pick the wrong one. For example 3300x (a 4 core cpu) beats 1800x in gaming. So you cant go with any 8 core CPU. If you are talking about newest CPU'S 8 core isn't even necessary you can just go with 6 core ones.
Switched i5 12400F with B660 motherboard from R5 3600X with B450. Never been happier in my life. Consistent framerates in PUBG in CSGO. The difference in fps is so noticeable. I also planned upgrade to 5600X but the 320$ don't even justify it so instead I've gone with 12400f with new mobo for 440$ with new features. I've also sold my 3600X + mobo for 300$. (I'm a competitive gamer by the way so FPS matters to me)
Alder Lake's performance per watt isn't that much higher than 10th gen they just have much higher power limits, still great to see Intel being competitive nonetheless
It would be nice to include b660 availability in the monthly GPU price video until there are just in stock. Thanks the review, the 12400 looks really good, the 12700 is the absolute king of the Alder Lake line up tho.
I expected that AMD would at least quietly release a non-X Zen3 CPU alongside the 5800X3D, but alas it seems that Intel's i5 is still the go to option since we didn't really get a successor to the R5-3600! If only there were some go to GPU choices too
Even something like a cheap 4c 5500X would make a heck of a splash (given how well the 3300X behaved), doubly so a 5500X3D, but AMD won't do that. I've noticed btw used pricing for the 3600 has gone up a lot in the last few months, as (in the UK) the 5600X rose from 245 UKP in Sep/2020 to 270 UKP by December.
I love it when CPU companies fight.
All two of them!
If they fight, we win xD
Admin it, it is just for show. They both agreed to release little "better" CPU by turns, to make more money.
@@GameBacardi Make sense
I'd loved it if GPU companies did too
Bought a 5600X in late 2020 when, as your review pointed out, there wasn't really a reason to buy Intel. Glad to see competition is back, only makes whatever future upgrade we get a better deal in the end.
There was, 10400f was best budget solution.
@@damara2268 Not if you already had a ryzen Mobo. That 3 gen Mobo from AMD was a Intel killer.
Cheapest b450 board is under 70 eur, what do you think you'll pay total for intel's selection? Yes way more and worse because of early adopter tax
@@shiraz1736 That just makes it worse, because now you've bought a sidegrade (5600X is not a especially big upgrade from earlier Ryzen chips).
@@Orcawhale1 not true, if you had a first or 2nd gen Ryzen chip, the upgrade to a 5600X would be very noticeable. Especially for 1080p gaming.
Just upgraded from i7 4790 to i5 12400f, I am pretty happy with it.
what mobo did u buy?
@@Ivan-np3ls z690 Strix for 400 usd
@@Pamani_ wait u paired a 12400 with a z690
isnt it kinda overkill for that cpu and u cant even oc the 12400f
tu, tener i9-9900k literal ✌️
@@Ivan-np3ls That isn't the same guy.
Just curious if the PP benchmark was done with the iGPU enabled? 🤔
I hate that AMD CPUs got so expensive. As an ITX user, Intel ITX motherboards are beyond expensive, so even though the CPUs might be good deals, it's still €400 with a motherboard.
😂😂 you can't afford 300
@@chriswright8074 It's not about affording it, it's about a poor price/performance when playing at 1440p and 4K. Would rather save money on the rather irrelevant CPU and poor it into other stuff.
@@chriswright8074 You're missing the point
@@chriswright8074 you must have bought a 3090 for 2.5k right? 🥶
@@zeronin4696 ???? how did you get 300 = 2500? You people are just poor and mad
I see the i5-12400F listed for $179.99 USD. It's great to see some lower-priced competitive CPUs coming out. If only video cards would somehow get anywhere near reasonable, even if it was the used market.
bs
I also checked motherboard prices for this new Intel 12XXX series and it's much more expensive than for Ryzen 5600X.
So the end build isn't any cheaper actually lol.
@@epicmap i know right everyone is saying that Intel is cheaper and good value for money but what about the motherboard idiots.
@@epicmap It's not more expensive here at all. I got a bundle deal for 429 euro, 12400f, asus b660 prime d4, 16gb kit DDR4 3200 cl16 RAM. Whereas bundle deals or even worse, separately the 5600x all in is well over 500€.
@@sachinmajotra9665 Motherboards are as cheap as 130 with the cheapest chipset, midrange is 150-230, high end is 230 upward. Check your local shops. Just got a bundle deal to finally upgrade my FX 8320.
So great to see Intel stimulated by competition again, the power draw of this i5-12400 is also very encouraging.
Except year old 5600X still better
@@5poolcatrush except its 300 us
@@user-jc2in3cp3g except you lose more money on DDR5 or, if going ddr4, on buying second board when DDR5 will be a thing because otherwise Zen 4 will be in advantage of DDR5 compared to your setup
@@user-jc2in3cp3g People bitch about a $300 AMD CPU and don't even mention the completely ass-rape Z690 and DDR5 prices.
@@user-jc2in3cp3g except you pay more money for DDR5 and mobo that costs over 500$
I was looking forward to this one!
Amazing job Hardware Unboxed
This is one of the best entry-level core i5's we've seen in a long while. Like, they've always been competent enough, but the 12400 is absolutely punching waaaaay above its weight. If this is what's pulling up the back end of gaming CPUs these days, the future is bright indeed.
It's useless without an external graphics card. 5600g has 2x the GPU of this turd ...
@@dgillies5420 who cares about iGPUS at this price range lol
I would argue with the "one of the best" statement.. got the 10400f for 145$ almost a year ago, which is like 20-25% slower in the worst scenerio (sometimes the difference falls down to 5% or less..), while this one has a higher power consumption, and a much higher price, especially in my country it won't dip under 200 in the near future (it's 250$ currently). Not to mention the motherboard which costs a lot more again, than the (for example) b460 before. And don't get me wrong, it's an awesome cpu, but in reality, it's nearly the same, as the 10400, but for a lot more, just the usual intel stuff..+5%-10 performance each generation with higher and higher power consumption. I like the "new" stock cooler though.
@@dgillies5420 the G version is a worse version though. You only get PCIe gen 3, "Vega graphics", and a weaker processor than the 5600X. If AMD did not compromise the CPU performance for internal graphics, it might have been a better deal.
I just bought this for under 150 with a board for under 120 (both with taxes included)
This will be my beater system and BTW AMD can't touch PCI Express 5.0 = SORRY
This also comes with a beefy cooler, which makes me smile.
I COULD'VE gotten a 5600x for 180 (pretaxed) but I do not......do NOT like B550 - as a chipset. It's JUST Ok.
I still find it ridiculous to see the 5600X fixed at 300€ for 2 years straight...
Hope the 12400 is a good enough reason to force AMD to drop the prices
They won't until they start sitting on stock. And they're currently selling their CPUs with the shrink wrap barely cold.... And the funny thing is that the average Joe thinks that Alder Lake is riddled with compatibility problems and that's why Intel are selling them cheaper than AMD.
@@andersjjensen That's largely because of the supply shortage.
@@andersjjensen They do decreased their prices here, in India where it used to sold for $400 currently priced at $260, yet i find intel is steal deal for $200 for non graphic version and $240 for graphic version.
Got mine for $220 at Microcenter
Over here, all Ryzen CPUs seem to have dropped around 40-50€ in price now.
Is it worth upgrading to this from a i5-6600k? Also, is it compatible with my ASUS Z170i Gaming Pro motherboard?
defintiely a worth upgrade from 6600k but if ur satisfied with ur 6600k then stay with it.
That Factoro at 6:25 will be an interesting bench to see when the Ryzen 7 5800X3D gets released.
I think AMD designed the CPU just for that game
@@LawrenceTimme can I ask why? I love factorio but my growing megabase makes the game increasingly slowing to a crawl.
@@whiteblack6865 because that game needs all the cache and this cpu has all the cache
1:22 Instead of mixing different types of cores within “Cores / Threads” row it’s, probably, better to show separate “P-cores / Threads” and “E-cores” rows (alternatively, single “P-cores (Threads) / E-cores” row).
I bought the 9400f when it was released and looking at the generations after it , I think the 400 class of cpus is generally the best value cpu of the year
Poor peoples cpu.. And what's the resale value of the 9400F vs 9600k/8600k? For a dollar per week you could have a much better cpu. Or you could have gotten a 9900 and kept it for or 3-4 years. Now you need to upgrade again, plus motherboard etc. That's expensive.
@@jungtarcph why do you assume they need to upgrade now?
@@jungtarcph "Poor peoples cpu" It's genuinely plain amusing how idiots think spending money on expensive things makes them wealthy 😂
@@jungtarcph Your comment is an epic fail buddy. Nice try though.
You should've got the Ryzen 5 2600X or 3600X at the time. Now you would be able to upgrade to a R7 5800X3D without changing anything else. Poor Intel fanboys.
Alright Intel, you made a decent CPU. Now do a GPU. Please.
"decent"
*NO they didn't*
You have to buy DDR5 to utilize this, since majority of DDR4 boards are out of stock or aren't very good at all.
You have to buy an adapter for an older kind of CPU Cooler. I haven't read; to know my knowledge of any water coolers that are compatible with socket 1700. Seems like the Gen 10 is the 1 to stick with.
@@cobrakainevereverdies6940 you are clueless.
@Lungho guys stop justifying your purchases with stupid statments, who said that Ddr5 better performance is a lie and who said coolers doesnt fit, clowns.
@@M7awesat - With a name like YOURS, don't ever in your life, write to me again.
Honestly can't wait to see the benchmarks for the core i3 12100!
me neither
Right? I'm also curious about the coming 12500 and 12600 (non-k) both of which have the same 6 P-core layout as the 12400 but with higher clocks.
@@kleinbottled79 Yes, and I believe the 12500 also has the newer UHD 770 graphics, for people that use those. That one seems worth the extra $10 compared to this 12400.
@@jomeyqmalone12500 or 12600 might be the ultimate 'sweet spot' chip for gamers on a budget this generation. Hope they release them soon. For those who can't wait 12400 seems more than acceptable.
5% weaker in gaming
AMD pricing is totally f*cked rn, even on the used market. What’s wrong with people? People buy used ryzen 3 3100 for 125$… A new ryzen 3 3600 is slightly more expensive than the 12400. I get it that ryzen 5xxx destroyed intel at launch and matched intel’s 11th gen with lower power consumption. But people seem to think, that if something has „Ryzen” written on it, it’s the best they can buy :/
11th gen went backwards in performance AMD was still kicking ass
I mean, look at a few years ago. People see "Intel Core" and they think it's the best. They switched places a while ago because AMD stopped providing options for the lower budget market. Hopefully this gives AMD an incentive to cater to the lower end market again for competition.
It's because there's this crypto that mooned a couple months ago that exploits L3 cache. And all modern Ryzen processors, at least since Ryzen 3000, have loads of it.
Apparently the R9 3950X is the best one for this kind of stuff, and you can tell because it costs way more than the way better, way faster 5950X.
BTW, the 3600 is a R5, not an R3.
Well true tbh
that was the case for intel first lol. now its reversed. i don't understand why AMD keeps prices high on 5000 but oh well. i already got my 5600x for 290 euros a while back so im not complaining
Very useful information, thank you. Glad to see a good uplift in performance from previous i5. For me currently the 12400F is about 260usd and the cheaper lga1700 motherboards are around 250usd locally so I'll have to wait a bit until prices settle as a 10400f is about 190usd and a good b560 are about 130usd. Meanwhile a 5600x is around 370usd. Not easy to sort a great value system in the current markets considering I only have a 1070ti for graphics that I'm running with 4th gen i7 and surviving OK at 1080p. Anyway thank you for keeping us informed and updated on the latest tech
I3-12100 or i3-12300 will be a decent upgrade despite having only 4 cores. It has 50% better single core performance.
in my area, i can get 12400f for 199~220 and b660 for 170~190
5600g is $260 and the GPU is 2x faster, it plays most titles at 1080p. Intel leaves you high and dry with their strictly-VGA iGPU, which hasn't improved since 2013 ....
@@dgillies5420 wat... He just said he has a 1070Ti. Why would he have any use for the iGPU of the 5600G? If you're looking just for CPU gaming performance, the 12400F makes so much more sense. He should even see a pretty notable uplift to frame rates at 1080p seeing as he's more CPU bound at that resolution
Probably worth noting that the entire package cost is likely going to be a factor. AM4 motherboards are generally cheaper and DDR5 is very pricey at the moment. Good to see intel is finally competitive again and hope they come with cheap and capable motherboards as well.
Looks like a very promising option for budget gamers once availability and prices of B660/H670 boards have calmed down.
I'm happy to see Intel finally being able to compete in performance, price and efficiency. Good times for customers!
ye, something worth upgrading to from amd 300 series boards if amd won’t deliver the bios updates
Intel will compete for another 8 months then AMD takes the crown again.
The higher cache of the 12700F almost seams to be worth the extra price, however given that AMD is about to come out with a higher cache version of their CPUs, it might be more of a waiting game to see which CPU will be better in the long run. At this time both are switching to new socket designs, however only AMD is proven to stick with a design for multiple generations making the ability to purchase once and upgrade multiple times a good value.
Only the 5800x
@@WayStedYou Ryzen 6000 is scheduled for February. But the 7000 desktop chips are to be released 2nd half 2022.
@Eric Yes but it has shown that mid tier Ryzen parts from the first and second generation and sometimes the third generation can bottleneck the GPU. Some people are wasting money by putting a 3080ti into a computer with a Ryzen 2600, when a 3070 with a 5600x could net overall better performance depending on the game. There are many that rode the wave of Ryzen from 1800x to 5800x with one motherboard change between.
@Eric My 3800X bottlenecks a 3060TI in a number of games at 1440p. Getting a 12700K was night and day. Not to mention significantly better 1% lows. Any Ryzen CPU pre 5000 series was quite bad compared to Intel when it came to gaming in CPU bound situations. So imagine how bad a 3080 and newer gen cards will be. I went Intel because my wife wanted my setup so it was better value getting the 12700k over the 5800X when building from nothing
how do you unlock the power limit from the F versions?... you dont need a 690 right?
next step is cheaper mobos, cpus already look good. and for now its probably more reasonable to go for ddr4, since ddr5 is very overpriced for those performance gains it deliver
This. And give us some cheaper ITX options please. Trying to build my stepdad a small form factor workstation around a 12400 but the itx board prices are crazy at ~$300 starting. (And currently sold out too.)
@@kleinbottled79 Go for AM4. You have so many great cheap motherboards and can go still to 5800X3D. Can't beat that.
My mobo was $30 lol. 3600 is still chugging along on it
@@kleinbottled79 more compact, more copper layers, more money
If only I could afford a graphics card my happiness would be complete
Was waiting for this!
Good review Steve and good that Intel have responded to AMD's Ryzen dominance. Competetion in the market is great for final end users. Keep up the great reviews.
Sounds like the paper launch has been replaced with a failure to launch.
Intel looking good again is pretty nice, maybe AMD should throw something at the lower end now too.
Yeaaaah probably won’t be able at least until end-of-the-year…. And imo, best you can hope for is probably relaunching the older Zen 2 and maybe Zen 3 processor, as lower-end. Is that what you want?
This is because they are relying on TSMC and the chiplet-style of AMD processor, means that there is just no incentive on making lower SKUs, and taking up precious chiplets that can be used to make 5600X or better. Its different from Intel’s architecture and creation style, not to mention Intel control its own fabs so all those capacity is currently only for Intel. Yes, customer don’t care but that’s the reality for AMD, definition of “suffering from success”.
And with that, since Zen 4 will be using newer TSMC process….. which means limited capacity and fighting for space with other GPU and mobile too…. expect AMD to only launch 5600X-equivalent or better.
@@ArchusKanzaki Intel and AMD keep making those really cheap CPUs (Celeron/Athlon) that go into crappy cheap laptops made for students that no one deserves to use. They are making cheap CPUs for people with no money and forcing people with money but are on a budget to buy something more expensive. Companies exist because of their customer base and should be mindful of that. But when people like you so readily accept their BS, there is no incentive for them to do better.
@@Gaur8n its you who are full of shit.
Dont make Athlon laptops.
Amd only makes high end and midrange laptops chips.
Why should AMD? if AMD wanted to release low-end SKUs, they would have done it few months ago.
But until right now you still couldn't see R5 5600 non X with 32MB cache, R3 5100/5300x with 16 MB cache.
Guess what? They started to consider releasing new Agesa for 300 series Motherboard to support 5000 series, because they are afraid of 300 Series motherboard user would just switch to Intel instead of buying 5000 series CPU.
AMD is your friend? NO, fucking NO, it's a BUSINESS COMPANY who loves moneys
@@Gaur8n AMD repackaged older Zen cores (as in Ryzen 3000-series laptop processor, not the Zen 2 Ryzen 4000), for their “new” Athlon Silver 3050U for their budget range of laptop. They’re not even making one based on Zen 2 yet as far as I can google.
At least with Intel, they just released Pentium and Celeron-line of Alder Lake, with only 1 or 2 Performance cores. Also, its good for you then that only Intel actually releasing budget range so be happy?
Great review, Steve.
And thanks for the big comparison to other chips 👍
I have been thinking about the 12400f for a while now and this video really helped me make my decision. Good job as always Steve!
Very good review, really enjoyed watching it!
Hopefully you test the 12100(F) as well. I guess this might be the king of kings in terms of budget gaming.
Price of 12400 is $50 less than 5600X in my country, but the cheapest B660 is $50 higher than cheapest B450 (CPU overclockable). So I think they are tie atm.
5600x is faster in games. So if they cost same, 5600x wins.
I'm glad you mentioned B450 as most ignore it when thinking of a 5600X comparison, but B450 is still a valid choice, half the cost of an H610 or B660, or indeed most B550 boards. This parity won't last forever though. AMD ought to see beyond its short term sales as otherwise the rep it's built up from Zen onwards will fade, but it's probably hard to do that due to investor pressure.
I think the b660 chipset should be better compared with the x570 chipset, due to the low overclocking headroom in modern cpus, and that the chipset bandwidth is the same. The b450 chipset only has a pci gen 3 x4 link to the cpu, as compared to gen 4 x4 for the x570 and b660, and gen 4 x8 for the z690.
B450 is a very old MB at this point..
The B450 is really only an option if you already have one.
@@mapesdhs597 half the cost? You smoking crack again timmy
Just checked prices in Serbia, 12100 - 220$, 12400 - 310$, and 12600K 430$. On par with Ryzen 5000 series ...
Good old Serbia prices, never disappointing.
A ja se ponadao da cene nisu bez veze ko i uvek...
Ništa, vreme je da zovemo dilere iz Subotice hahaha
Great video!
Whenever u look for quick info on budget value oriented parts I find the perfect answers here
Other channels did the same gaming comparison and got very different results, like in Hitman 3 and Horizon Zero Dawn, where the 12400 actually beat the 5600x,
But they used a GeForce card.
Please upvote so Steve can see this!
how does it suprise you there are so many variables when testing stuff like that. Still very comparable results, a few frames more or less in some games just happen when you use different hardwar/software/drivers etc..
It might be the driver side software scheduling on the geforce card putting more load on the cpu, so multithreaded cpu performance becomes more important
@@ben_ger1988 we are not talking about +1/2% variation. Igor's review has a 6900xt like this review but data are completly different. In Horizon in this review 5600x is +23% better than 12400 when in all other reviews 12400 is always better or equals. The same happens on Hitman 3 and other games. This review is the only one in wich 5600x beats 12400, you can check all the others.
@@Smallman647 Igor's test seems bit ridiculous to me, 800 Euro motherboard in case of 5600X, uknown settings, it seems like 5600X is with PBO but it's not stated anywhere so there is also weird power consumption. I'm still waiting for some decent tests.
@@SUST-RWM yes in Igor's review there is pbo enabled for 5600x. But there are at least other 3-4 reviews (tom's, guru3d etc.) in wich 12400 is on pair or slighty better than 5600x. HU review is the only one in wich you see huge gains of the 5600x vs 12400 so there is something wrong with this review.
When I compared a B550+5600x and a B660+12400 combo last week the price in my region was almost the same! I have seen several good B550 motherboards on sale for 100-120€ while the B660's start at 175€. Add to this that it's a bit hard to fin compatible coolers for LGA1700 at the moment and it's not a "no brainer" to go with the 12400 at the moment.
Need to see a few B660's around 140€ where I live for the 12400 to be a clear winner.
Especially because you can get a secondhand B450 or B550 for 50-80€ and even Amazon Warehouse has plenty (if available.) I've also seen secondhand 5600X for 220€ and below. All things that just aren't possible with B660 and 12400(F).
This, budget comparisons of components should not be done in a vacuum
I did a similar check just now. If one doesn't need the differentiation that B550 provides (which most don't) then a B450 is even better value. In Sep/2020 I built a 5600X gaming PC for someone (with a refurb GTX 1080, because new SKUs are stupid) using a cheap MSI B450 Mortar Max, which worked extremely well. Likewise, I built for myself at the same time a 5600X on a B450 Tomahawk Max II, the mbd was just 60 UKP new, ie. about 72 Euro (still available atm from Ebuyer UK with free next-day delivery). For gaming there's nothing essential B550 provides, while the value from B450 is excellent. If such had been available I for sure would have bought a 5600 instead, or indeed a 4c 5500X but there's still no such thing.
However, this gap is certainly closing. Atm H610 and B660 pricing is kinda high, with a rather limited mbd feature set, but if pricing comes down then AMD will seem less appealing for sure, especially given some of the performance differences. I wonder though, for AMD, whether it's simply the case that, so long as overall demand remains high enough such that they can sell every 5600X they make, then they just don't need to drop pricing or release something more sensible like a 56003D or tweaked 5650 non-X, ie. the 5600X will continue to sell just fine based on existing reputation, despite the 12400F being more logical sans mbd/cooler cost. The demand side of the market is so distorted atm, it's messed up the way in which these competitive forces would normally function.
Better cooler? They give one for free.
You can’t overclock . Your argument makes no sense
in the states on amazon atm you can get a x470 gmaing plus max from msi brand new for 100 bucks fantastic board for the money
12400f is the new budget king. Where I live 5600X costs 330usd, entry lvl B550 110usd, while 12400F costs 220usd and B660 costs 170usd so the Intel package us 50usd cheaper while performing very close to 5600X. The stock 5600X cooler makes clocks run 200-250MHz slower in cinebench vs a good aircooler, while 12400f can run full speed at stock cooler. Overall I would say 12400f is the winner in bang for bucks, while 5600X is slightly faster, especially if you use CO and a better cooler, I currently own both.
Holy shit, prices are crazy for you! I've seen 5600X secondhand for even below $250 and B450/B550 boards for below $80. They frequently end up in that range from Amazon Warehouse too.
I bought a B450 instead (this was last Sept.) which was almost half the cost of the cheapest B550, runs great with a 5600X. One doesn't need B550 for gaming, but I understand why one might default to that for a pricing comparison now. If H610/B660 pricing can drop to anywhere near similar levels then AMD will seem less appealing for sure (the B450 I bought, an MSI Tomahawk Max II, is still available new for just 60 UKP from Ebuyer UK with free next day delivery), though I suspect so long as demand remains as high as it currently is, AMD won't drop pricing because they just don't need to, ie. if they can sell every 5600X they can make anyway. The market is really messed up atm compared to normal supply & demand pressures.
@@b0ne91 live in Norway, we sometimes get really crap models of B550 for 80usd, but mostly it's 100+ usd. Some good B450 can be had for 80-90usd so that can be a good option. The cheapest B660 are 140usd, but I would not buy those.
1:05
Why does everyone call the 5600G "unappealing"? it's a decent CPU and a great iGPU for this current GPU market.
For me, right now, the 5600G as a placeholder for a better 5000 CPU later on (when people are going to sell them cheap to jump to 7000 or Raptor Lake) is the best Ryzen path to take. Maybe 5950X too, for certain users, but that's a niche in itself.
I agree, but overpriced a bit.
Because AMD is charging more for essentially just a slightly better CPU than the overclocked 3600 after 3 years. Not to mention GT 1030 graphics performance can be had for $20 before the GPU market went to hell. Heck, people were giving away GT 1030s for free at that time. Charging $260 for basically a $200 CPU in 2019 and GT 1030 performance means AMD is taking advantage of the GPU situation with the APUs as well. APUs can't be used for mining so it isn't an excuse to scalp customers just because GPU prices are expensive.
It may not cost as much as a scalped GT 1030, but it cost way more than it should as a APU. Like the 5600X, it is overpriced at MSRP and should have cost $230 at least considering price to performance in the CPU market did not stagnate. It's still a consideration in this market but don't pay $260 for this, you'll just be scalped by AMD.
If you have realized, AMD Radeon have been pricing their products based on the market. RX 6600 series and 6500 XT and even this. Though, doesn't make sense to price an APU based on the scalped GPU market because it can't mine. I guess you're being scalped less going with a 5600G than a GT 1030.
That said, it's the only decent APU on the market so it still does have it's market. Maybe, that's why AMD priced it higher. And also it can't be too much cheaper than the 5600X. It could be a rollercoaster effect from overpricing the 5600X at $300.
A 3600 + GT 1030 used to cost at most $220-230 back in the day. Now the 3600 is still at its MSRP thanks to AMD overpricing the 5600X that the 3600 offers better price to performance. The same combo would probably cost $300 nowadays. So the 5600G at $260 is a better deal than the 3600+GT 1030 now but it still inflated. And it's been almost 3 years since the 3600 came out.
why would anyone buy a 5600g then upgrade to another 5000 cpu? its stupid
i never get how AMD fanboy have no problem upgrading their shit every year to the same shit for little % gain but have a major ass pain when it comes to intel that is literally the same if you upgrade on the same socket
@@person1745 now that Raja Koduri is at Intel, my only hope is that Intel will want to enter the apu market as well and give us an Intel APU that could atleast game like a GTX 1050TI, Intel have no gpu market so its good advantage for them and wont cannibalize their own non existent gpu segment.
Also i have more faith in Intel in their pricing standards than shitty AMD that literally doubled their cpu price over 2 generations lmfao
this i5 12400 reminds me of the very first i5 750, same price good performance that every gamer would want
if AMD were to monopolize i think we would have to pay $1000 for a ryzen 5 in a few more years while Intel still maintain its price after 12 gen
thats some real dedication right there
So I think the takeaway from this is if you already have an AM4 board that supports 5000 series chips (soon to be all of them?) then the 5600/5800/58003D is a smart choice.
If your on an older socket or platform then going with the Intel LGA 1700 is a good choice. Id be hard pushed to recommend anyone buys into AM4 right now. Especially with AM5 around the corner and the new intel socket supporting DDR5.
However the price of the new intel chipsets and the RAM is a bit crazy right now!
kudos to intel for keeping the xx400f under 200
Fr fr
yes I hope they always keep it like this, these i5 cpus have great value
I would love to see a video on these CPUs with a slower gpu and higher resolutions like you said. Kind of like the RX 6800 + 10400F video you did at the start of 2021.
Gonna be honest, I manily want to see this video to validate my 10400F purchase, but it could also be useful for new buyers to see where they can save money if they're going 1440p.
Thanks for posting some gaming benchmarks I'll go for the 5600x instead of the 12400f! The Intel chip + motherboard is only £40 cheaper here in the UK from what I can see. Cheaper CPU but expensive motherboards!
I got a 5600X, but I'm glad to see this. This will keep AMD in check. It's also great to see a product being released (roughly) a year after 5600X and being cheaper and quite competitive.
Zen 4 and Raptor Lake should be a fun piece of competition.
meteor lake will be released a few months after zen 4 comes to the market. so zen 4’s main opponent will be meteor lake instead of raptor lake.
@@Steven-fv8xw yeah but the way news cycle works, is that they will be fighting against the latest generation, so Zen 4 might beat Alder Lake, and then Raptor Lake might beat Zen 4, and so on and so forth
@@ArchusKanzaki zen 4 is mainly competing with raptor lake since both are gonna release the same time both zen 4 and raptor lake will beat alder lake
@@malathomas6141 If its the same time. I thought someone said that there will be difference of few months inbetween? Meanwhile their current stop gap is 5800X3D which apparently may beat 12900K, in which Intel launching 12900KS to counter back.
@@ArchusKanzaki zen 4 will have to compete with both raptor lake and meteor lake it seems
MSI B450 Tomahawk Max is an amazing deal for $80-90 on Ryzen, and punches well above its weight.
HW Unboxed - i love that you are testing all CPUs with RX6900XT and with ResBar Disabled ❤👍
AMD continues to not lower the 5600x to $229. That price has been a sticking point for how long now..
Thanks amd for making Intel wake up.
I hate Intel and am impressed with the efficiency and value here (in a vacuum of course because everything is weird with availability). I'd be happy to start recommending Intel pending any secret security vulnerabilities yet to be discovered lmao
Just bought a Ryzen 5 5600 + ASUS B550 Plus Prime Motherboard for $230 USD at Microcenter. According to NexusGamer, I don’t need to pay extra just for that “X” to be printed on my CPU. After watching this, definitely feeling like I got a heck of a deal!
Really curious how this thing handles emulators. I imagine the lower cache would result in considerably more stutter vs the 5600x even if average fps were comparable. That's my experience with the 10400 at least.
what kind of emulators? in my experience intel processor runs android emulator faster and much more stable than the amd counterpart
@@ghostedsuicide I have compared my 5600x/4x8gb 3200cl16 system vs a 10400/2x16gb 2666cl21(?) system using Switch emulators and while the average fps is in line with what the benchmarks would suggest, the big drop in cache size and memory speed results in a hefty increase in random stutters, loading times between menus etc. Can't do an apples to apples comparison unfortunately so can't say how much of that is due to the cache, how much is due to worse memory.
@@Metetron How are you determining that your performance issues are specifically tied to cache size and memory speed?
Intel has special Extension for Emulator called Intel HAVX,
@@Diwwah that's really just my conjecture based on my own testing. The increase in stutters was much greater than the loss in average fps between the systems which I attributed to the system choking elsewhere than just IPC. The subject could definitely use proper empirical testing by HUB. I'm sure there's lots of interesting data to be uncovered.
Great review and comparison Steve! Much appreciated.
I don't think people understand this, the 5600X was released 431 DAYS ago and is able to keep up new launches from Intel today. Pretty impressive from AMD tbh although they did demand a little premium.
Don't forget ti consider the fact that Intel produces their chips in their own production factories as they had problems solving issues with the production process of 12th Gen one and a half years ago, also amd getting their chips produced by tsmc just simply proves Intels superiority in the long run.
Not impressive when it still costs 30% more
Not sure how's the pricing for alder lake in your regions, in my region Alder lake is being scalped to the moon 150% to 200% MRP on all things, motherboard, ram, cpu. AMD build is significantly cheaper here with 5800x going for as low as 300$ right now in local market. i5 12th gen is at 450$ to 500$ here
@@pavankeshavl856 12700k is cheaper than the 5900x where im at... 12400 is cheap 12600k is under 300 as well.
with a bit of undervolting I got a same score as he 65 watt 12400 with my 5600x
Which cooler(s) did you use for testing? Did you use stock coolers? Or an AIO? Your video seems to show an AIO but you don't mention one in your Test System Specs segment. I know you mention the performance of various coolers in the Temps section when testing Cinebench, but you don't seem to cover it earlier.
Just built a 12400 and 3060 ti. Great combo for 1440P gaming.
@@Che7u I don’t play war zone.
I only updated to DDR4 about 5 months ago. My plan is to upgrade to DDR5 about 5 or 6 months before DDR6 is introduced or when they decide the letters DDR are obsolete... :p
Here's to hoping that AMD lowers their prices to compete. I would love a sub-$200 5600X
They already did it at least in US. 5800X received massive discount, and 5600X also become more competitive from price perspective, but honestly speaking without decent inexpensive mobos for LGA1700, 5600X still looks like a competitive solution to 12400 considering not CPU price alone, but the whole CPU+Mobo bundle.
@@snowmean1 your argument made no sense at all, ddr4 boards for lga1700 looks the same price with a am4 zen3 board, stop comparing with those high end ddr5 that nobody will buy. in fact you could get a i5+mobo for the same price of just a 5600x everywhere
I was refreshing since yesterday. Finally the wait is over. Thanks HU team!
These new lower end CPUs look like a decent upgrade
if you don't have an AM4 platform. I hope that we get more motherboard reviews of the B660 lineup especially since the previous review mentioned that not all B660s will allow for unlimited PL2 timing.
RIP to all AM4 300 series owners tho, your bandwagon stops at 3600x
@@loucipher7782 I think there is an announcement that with a future aegsa update some AMD 300 Chipsets will support ryzen 5000. Pretty sure this is to stop those users from jumping to B660.
@@TheDaNuker do you have an official link or something? last time i check fanboys claim that it was months ago and AMD openly stopped mobo manufacturers from releasing 5000 bios on 300 boards so all the manufacturers had removed them, nobody can do it without bricking their own boards or its just experimental at best.
Its official AMD do not support it, now im now sure unless i see an official announcement or it never happened
Fanboys words cant be trusted at all, they cant magically make my mobo have magic powers lol
Great video mate. I have one question if i can ask. In my country the ryzen 5600x is 20% cheaper at the moment. should i buy it or go with intel? Considering that intal can be paired with ddr5 and amd cant. thank you
When 6500XT embargo lifts? - I can't wait to see how shit it is.
AMD - Advanced mining devices
@@emulation2369 you can't mind with 4gb
It is going to be tolerable in pcie 4.0 systems but boy o boy is it going to suck on pcie 3.0 systems
@@ahmetikbal8652 IDK, might still suck pretty bad compared to last gen on even PCIe 4.0, hopefully it's better than the sidegrade I expect it to be, but I won't be holding my breath for it 😆
Hey, this is just the fifth time they’ve released the RX 480, isn’t it?
Love the content man, keep it up!
Showing 10 game average fps is a very flawed metric. It is biased towards games that run at high FPS. Eg a 10% lead in a gaming running at 100fps is going to contribute 10x more than a 10% lead in a game running at 10 fps.
You should be normalising the performance per game before averaging.
How would you normalize the performance per game?
@@sage4670 Per game set the 12900k as the baseline and work out what % of that all the other CPUs get. Then average the % between games.
At the end you’d get relative performance which is easier to interpret anyway.
Eg processor A gets 100fps and 10fps while processor B gets 110 fps and 9 fps. Just averaging gets you 55 fps average vs 60 fps average. If you normalise performance, processor B gets 110% and 90% fps relative to processor A. Average 1.1 and 0.9 and you get 1 which is equal relative performance.
Yep, they should use a harmonic mean instead of arithmetic mean (equivalent to "FPS at average frame time")
@John Macaulay ahh I've seen this done with gpus, where the 3090 is the baseline of 100% and the other gpus are a lower percentage of it. Makes sense
5600x is price around $170 right now. Pair it with a decent b550 board, this combo has a much better value compare to the same performance combo on the intel side.
Thanks for including the 10400. Upgrading seems unnecessary as of now.
Just went with an 11400f days before the Alder Lake launch. Although there's clearly a performance uplift I missed, I don't feel I missed out on bang for buck at all.
@@AndyViant there will always be better products in sight. Buy whenever you need one.
I'm about to get the 11400f in a few days then found this video just now (and your post). Are you not worried about future upgrades, since, the RAM stick to be specific is DDR4, and that we are now transitioning to DDR5?
@@rcane6842 Pairing a value CPU with the bleeding edge of ram wouldn't make sense.
@@rcane6842 DDR4 will still be effective for a long time to come. Eventually DDR5 will be significantly better for some tasks, but by the time high speed low latency DDR5 is affordable for gaming we're probably talking about 2 or 3 CPU generations down the track.
If I was looking at upgrading ram as well, then it might have made sense to wait to buy an Alder Lake CPU and DDR 5 motherboard.
But that would have more than doubled the cost of my upgrade, meaning I probably wouldn't have bothered, and hung on to my 2600 for a bit longer and seen what AMD fought back with.
When I do my next upgrade there will still be people happy to buy my 11400 and 16 gb ddr4 3200 at a reasonable price.
just to become no 1 Amd & intel fighting over cpu but there are already many good cpu in market right now world need gpu
The total cost between the 2 platform is basically the same. Even tho the 12400/F is cheaper you have to count for the mobo price whis is almost double for a decent one. You can get a good B550 for about 100€ or even less, and that's without talking B450. With intel the current minimum to get a decent motherboard is almost 200€ if not more (DDR4 that is). So it basically make for all the price difference, but offering lower performance compared to a 5600X. The only advantage I see in the i5 is being a new platform and having Pcie5 support.
Not really, if you judge the same feature set, the difference is about 50$, not 100$.
B660M Mortar for example is at least as good as B550M Mortar, which is about 50€ cheaper here.
Overall, Intel still wins, but definitively not that convincing as the CPU comparison itself would imply.
@@mirceastan94 I don't really consider MATX mobos tbh, especially in this price range when I can get a full ATX one, but a B660M mortar can be bought for about 250€ where I live, where as the B550M Mortar is about 150€ (even less). A decent ATX B660 is about 200€ (same cost as a Z690s, making buying an B or H mobo kinda a waste of money imo), while a good B550 can already be found (notice, can, not that you'll walk into the first amazon link and get it) for under 100€. As an example today I saw an offer for a Gigabyte B550 AORUS Pro V2 for 98€. You're not gonna find anything with a similar feature set on intel for the same price, as of now at least.
@@Slash402Plus You forget something very important - B660 was barely released, give them at least one month. Need I remember you how much B550 cost 2 years ago?
@@mirceastan94 Infact I specified "as of now" in the end. If in one month prices will lower maybe it might become a better value. But now it is not, and in a very short time these CPUs will become kinda useless considering in less than a year AMD will show their new platform (and probably Intel will do too). Either prices of mobos will go down in a short time (eg. 2/3 months at max) or it won't be a good investment anymore to upgrade to this platform imo (which I would do only if needed anyway). I'd like to clarify I'm not defending either of the brands, I think AMD pricing is ridiculous and made purposely to fuck the consumer because there was no competition at the time, I'm myself in need of an upgrade but if these are the current prices I'm more prone in getting a 12600kF (+Z690) than a 12400F.
This is great for new systems (AMD does have the upgrade advantage), just hope volume keeps up and those good budget boards arrive soon. We needed more competition, now we got it! 😃
Is there any possibility of adding different applications to the benchmark list. Many of them are rendering applications that do almost the same.
Adding something like Soliworks or Catia would make these tests a bit more complete.
great analysis! no bias and very honest! very good work!
Got my wife a 5600x this past summer. She's only playing 1440p 60fps. That should last her quite a while.
could've gotten a r5 2600/3600 and that would still last quite a while for only 60 fps. Even older/worse cpus. Any 4c/8t honestly.
@@user-wq9mw2xz3j not on high you tripping
@@user-wq9mw2xz3j maybe on low
@@user-wq9mw2xz3j Her computer was built for gaming today and tomorrow. I wanted some room to grow. Also got her a 3060 TI. She should be solid for the next 4 years.
Got a 10700k which is similarly priced to 5600x ( cheaper in my region ) and games don't even use it completely in 2160p 60fps. My 2080 is handling this resolution and fps well with most on high.
Need to up gpu in 2022-2023 and swap cpu in 2-3 years when ddr5 ram gets cheaper and more streamlined.
Got a 12400f and it's so fast. Happy with my purchase.
Question: With the current and forseeable future of GPU prices in mind. Is it really smart to buy a CPU with no integrated GPU?
If you are on a budget + more likely an older GPU, you can throw your PC out the window if your GPU dies. That GPU will not be easily replaced.
I can not recommend the "F"-version right now. Your thoughts @Hardware Unboxed.
5600G or higher is the GPU apocalypse CPU.
12400 should be compared to 5600G to be fair.
It's a good point. If you have any iGPU, you can at least run GeForce Now and Stadia if your GPU has problems. If you have a 5600G/5700G you can still play ANY game at 768p
Why wouldn't you? Integrated graphics are generally shit. You can get GT710 for like 20-25$. So if something goes wrong, getting a gpu just so you have something to actually display the imagine is not a problem. It is not like you can game on intel integrated graphics at comfortable fps anyway.
If you want a semi decent integrated graphics then 5600g is the only viable option currently.
@@peterpan408 The UHD 730 in 12400 is much slower than Vega 8 in gaming.
Statisticly its not worth it paying in advance for an integrated gpu you are very likely never going to need, just because something of equivalent power to intel igpu is 50-100€ atm. for the unlikely event that your gpu fails.
Some risks are worth taking, dont "overinsure"
Using the ryzen 5 5600x absolute beast for its price
To me, "cut down" means stuff in the silicon disabled (e.g. 8-core silicon with 1 or 2 bad cores, so sold as 6-core part).
I don't think i5-12400 is a "cut down" part. I think Intel is making separate, smaller-die parts for these, and I think they'll sell cut-down versions of these as i3 and Pentium.
I don't think AMD has made any dies with less than 8-cores in multiple years now, and so with good yield, they won't have any low-end parts to sell.
I think the APUs have lower core count dies
@@Radovanslav Only pre-Zen2 APUs were 4-core dies. Zen2 (4050-series) and Zen3 (5000-series) APUs are all 8-core dies.
Now, the specialty APUs like the ones in SteamDeck are using 4-core dies, but I'm not aware of any PC parts like that.
I don't know if 3000-series APUs are still in production. I guess that's possible, since they're made by GF, not TSMC.
Looking forward to your b660 testing! It would be great, if you could again put an emphasis on which board runs the 12400 unlocked out of the box.
Why is it so much slower than the other alder lake parts? I expected it to be on par/a little slower than the 12600k in games :/
It's barely any faster than the old parts
Because cache is halved and all core frequency locked to 4ghz while the others go over 4.5ghz all core
It's basically same or even better performance than the 5600x while being 30% cheaper what else do you expect 😐 why would it be on par with a 12600k at a much lower price if they wanna make profits.
Power limit isn't great at 117W max turbo, the i7 goes all the way to 190W, and the i9 turbo all the way to a stupid 241W limit. High end Alder Lake pretty much requires a PSU upgrade I'd stick with 10th gen
@@nayan.punekar maybe in workload but gaming naw
@@toast1797 the i7 is no problem. It's actually about as hard to cool as 5800x eventhough it's using 60w more on maximum load.
The i9 is just stupidly over boosted. However i9 non-k could be good as they don't clock those so hard
I am looking at getting a new computer and this video has been very helpful. I am curious about the temperature test. Specifically, the I5 12400 has a maximum clock speed of 4.4GHz but even with an aftermarket cooler the clocks for each core did not exceed 4GHz despite the cores being quite cool. The 65W limit was removed from the CPU according to the video. Does this mean that the upper limit of speed for this processor is 4GHz at "maximum turbo power"? Do the other I5 chips (other than the "k" versions have the same limit?
Thanks in advance for any responses.
Finally, a step forward for Intel! The series ending in 400 have been always the best in terms of cost/benefit.
low-end stuff is always best in terms of performance per dollar lol. however it's still lower-end stuff.
@@Dr.WhetFarts yeah but for a lot of gamers there isn’t a reason to buy an i9 or Ryzen 9 because of diminishing returns
@@Dr.WhetFarts wtf i3 is low end, i5 12400 is what you would call a mainstream, every gamer will get this and call it a day
Does 12400 support AVX-512 ? because intel were talking about disabling it. I am interested in AVX-512 support since RPCS3 ( PS3 emulator ) gets approximately 20% performance uplift which is quite useful in such ludicrously CPU heavy application ( would love to see it as CPU benchmark).
It supports it on current motherboards and BIOS. Its only a rumor that future BIOS updates will remove it. So if you buy one now youre guaranteed to get AVX512
I hope intel can deliver good value for GPUs too. AMD and nvidia are failing hard there.
There is no good value as long as miner exist.
@@arenzricodexd4409 Yes, as long as the card is good for mining. I am not a GPU engineer but I hope that intel sees that if they can release a GPU that sucks for mining that they have a great opportunity to gain some market share in the gaming community.
I don't know what is and isn't possible in that way, I just hope.
I just got a 12500. Will be getting the 13700 whenever that is out, should be good for 5-7 years
12400f for 150$ is an amazing deal, shame there is no competition from AMD in the 100-150 price range
They have Ryzen 3600.
@@ThePsychophant and you compare that to 12400f? Seriously 🤣
I haven't seen it at that price. Seems to be around 180 for the f version with no igpu
@@ThePsychophant
Where do you see the competiton here, Ryzen 3600 alone costs as much as i5-10400F with motherboard.
12400f is $250 where I live. RIP.
I'd be interested to see how much difference the extra clock speed on the 12500 makes vs. the 12400, assuming of course the 12500 isn't OEM only and we can actually buy it.
Your i5 12400 appears to be performing worse when compared to other reviews.
This might be a weird question but is there any difference between F and non-F version of a CPU when it comes to temp? or does the integrated GPU still exists on the chip and is just turned off (makes no sense but you never know how companies think, especially Intel)
thx AMD for competition! intel wouldnt release these new CPUs for adequate prices w/o AMD pushing the limits
lol intel didnt give two shits about AMD
intel price had always been the same since fkin gen 1
this should however keep greedy AMD price in check
look how overpriced the 5600x/5800x is then now its crumbling down
you should thank intel instead
intel is the only reason you can soon upgrade your shitty ryzen without paying double
Did you removed the Power Limit for the Rocket Lake parts ?
The cost of the cpu is completely negated by the price of the motherboard
With a h670 or b660 its still cheaper than the 5600x and a b550
@@TheBURBAN111 cheapest b660 I have seen is 150 compared to 60 for a b550
A review i was waiting for.
Hate to burst your bubble, but both CPUs are priced above 300$ (EU-E). Great benchmarks, though
Most of us are still running 10th/11th gen. I'd be really interested to see the Rebar regression please.
its sad that amd did not launch a 5600 non x which would be better. Hope this price to performance ratio delivered by intel increases the competition for amd and intel so that they launches good budget cpu
More like that was AMD intend to do. They keep older part occupy the lower segment with the same price then increase the 6C/12T price to $300 instead of pushing it further down. They need to show investor increased profit margin to push stock price higher.
amd are scumbags
but fanboys will never see it.
@@gloomytony9560 yep companies only care about profit. And I only care about my budget and performance. Also cpus are still ok but man the gpu prices are like joke only due to high gpu prices I couldn’t built my pc and I’m waiting for more than a year
@@ShadowFire266 used gtx 1070 and amd 580 8gb skyrocketed to 400% - 500% of price in 2018
@@gloomytony9560 Yep I thought that after I go to college I would finally build my first gaming pc but that remained as a dream. The only thing I can do is to wait for the prices to go down. I have intel hd 620 which is worst and I can't play any games on it. 😭
have you considered the Motherboard price?
you also need a better cooler for intel's 12 gen
do you think i should upgrade from i7 7700k paired with rtx 3060ti or 3070 for 1440p or not worth it??
6700xt
Idk about the 7700k but i had a ryzen 2600x that had bad frame drops in assassins creed odysessy. I upgraded to a 5600x and that fixed alot. No fame drop spikes. Halo and assassins creed ran better. And upgraded other rigs with the parts :)
I don't know how the 2600x and 7700k compare though. I suggest buying the GPU first then upgrading the CPU if you feel you are not getting everything from the GPU.
6700xt is a better choice
Asap! Get atleast 10700f as you may find it cheap and being 8core that is value too. But 12400f is certainly good.
i upgraded the pc of my son from an 7700k to an 12600k(both at 5ghz and with ddr4 3600 cl14) and my boy dosent see any valuable difference while gaming with an 1080ti @2100Mhz(around 3060ti performance) at 1440p ..... he is really disappointed(just because was his money =) but like i said to him(even before upgrade) this benchmark with an cpu paired with top of the line gpu(and even at 1080p) its just very very misleading with the only purpose to maximize differences
In North America, at least, it's still going to be hard to dethrone the $170 USD 10400s.
Thanks as always for the content.
the 12400f is around 180$ so it might dethrone it.
It beats the 10600 easily,the 10400 is toast.
In the UK the 5600x looks about the same price incl mobo with the 12400. Given the likely hood if the GPU not going to be high end with these cpus you are likely to have the same performance between them. Would have been interesting to see the results using the box coolers for both AMD and intel.
cooling fan are cheap, nobody should use box coolers lol
when i look at 5600x price i rather just get a new intel+mobo
i get tons of extra nvme slots too
Overall makes me feel pretty good about paying $150 for a 3600 on my last round of upgrades.. and makes the next upgrade look like it's going to be a good bang-for-buck spot too. At least for the CPU. The GPU... well....
3600 is still a beast
Hope to see tests on a larger set of games in future. What is resulting in it lagging behind 5600x on the whole (Except a few wins) for games while it seems to be consistently ahead for non-gaming workload?
This was the case for Zen 2 vs Skylake variants due to latency, but for 12400 without the e cores, the hybrid architecture should not be the problem here?
I agree that Intel is firmly in the lead in terms of value but it is by only about $65 when you consider motherboard costs. In the US, a 5600X costs $289 plus $115 for a MSI B550-A Pro (which is a very solid board all round) so Motherboard plus CPU for AMD is $405. For Intel a 12400F is $180 plus $160 for the cheapest board worth buying is $340. So Intel is $65 cheaper which is very significant but still leaves plenty of circumstances where AMD makes sense especially since AMD's best value at this price bracket allows for CPU overclocking and tuning unlike what Intel allows you to do.
Overall Intel is the better choice but if you don't have to upgrade now there will always be better things coming like AMD's Zen 4 and AM5 platform. And by then DDR5 prices should make sense and be worth buying.
You don't really need a b550 to run a 5000 series processor as some b450 already comes capable out of the box. That should shave some of the unnecessary cost
Best value ME ASSS 5600x + b450 Mortar is 350$ and i5 12400 + the cheapest motherboard z690 in new egg is 400$ so you pay50$ to join intel beta testing as it is with any new product
in newegg b450 mortar is arond 80$ very solid board just do bios update , i got me for around 55$
@@piotrsz5657 you didnt account for the ram for z690
So Resizable BAR is enable or not in the AMD system?
In REAL WORLD USE, most games are almost unnoticeably different when you are comparing CPU.
It’s really the GPU making the difference, and even then, without benchmarks, it’s very difficult to differentiate unless you are on a 4K monitor so long as you’re at 60 fps or higher.
Just about any 8-core CPU is acceptable.
You dont know what you are talking about. CPU's can and will make a huge difference if you pick the wrong one. For example 3300x (a 4 core cpu) beats 1800x in gaming. So you cant go with any 8 core CPU. If you are talking about newest CPU'S 8 core isn't even necessary you can just go with 6 core ones.
Switched i5 12400F with B660 motherboard from R5 3600X with B450. Never been happier in my life. Consistent framerates in PUBG in CSGO. The difference in fps is so noticeable. I also planned upgrade to 5600X but the 320$ don't even justify it so instead I've gone with 12400f with new mobo for 440$ with new features. I've also sold my 3600X + mobo for 300$. (I'm a competitive gamer by the way so FPS matters to me)
Alder Lake's performance per watt isn't that much higher than 10th gen they just have much higher power limits, still great to see Intel being competitive nonetheless
It would be nice to include b660 availability in the monthly GPU price video until there are just in stock. Thanks the review, the 12400 looks really good, the 12700 is the absolute king of the Alder Lake line up tho.
I expected that AMD would at least quietly release a non-X Zen3 CPU alongside the 5800X3D, but alas it seems that Intel's i5 is still the go to option since we didn't really get a successor to the R5-3600!
If only there were some go to GPU choices too
Even something like a cheap 4c 5500X would make a heck of a splash (given how well the 3300X behaved), doubly so a 5500X3D, but AMD won't do that. I've noticed btw used pricing for the 3600 has gone up a lot in the last few months, as (in the UK) the 5600X rose from 245 UKP in Sep/2020 to 270 UKP by December.