It was the same for me about the young restless and reformed guys. I could never get into Chandler, Driscoll, Chan, or Platt. I read some of there stuff and listened to them, but something seemed odd about them. Maybe it's because I was introduced first to (and still love listening to) J Vernon McGee, Macarthur, Wilson, and Sproul (ligonier).
Interaction that is too frequent and familiarity between a man and a woman is flirting. It may not be overtly sexual or a sexual act but it speaks to the heart issue that leads to those things
After listening again to what Matt Chandler said, I noticed that he did apologize and express his embarrassment, but he never repented of the sin that is behind his need to step down. It is almost as if he does not recognize, or is unwilling to admit, what he did wrong.
Matt Chandler reminds me of a car salesman who wants you to think he is your best friend. He may be sincere, but there is just something about him that makes my radar go off when he starts this whiny, crying shtick. Haven't listened to him much but when I do he seems very insincere. My hope is that he is sincere and is going to turn from whatever sin is going on and allows God to correct him.
@@joncappo7297 look at the story of how he instantly fired five laymen who warned him about his deputy at Acts 29 Steve Timmis in 2012. That was well before his woke phase. He ended up having to fire Steve Timmis in 2020 because the reports of his abusiveness reached critical mass. I would not buy a used car from Matt Chandler.
I predict a “healing restorative”season followed by the release of a book with companion study that will be marketed to churches and in the religious section of chain book stores. We’ll see.
I am confused why the elders did not feel competent to investigate the situation and draw conclusions for themselves. Why would they hand responsibility over to an outside law firm? Although Paul is dealing with a different situation, his conclusions seem to apply to this situation as well, "Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? (1 Cor. 6:1-3, NASB).
Well that makes the assumption they care what the Bible says about it. Obviously, they don't, or they wouldn't be involved with the woke stuff to start with.
That woke pastor commenting regarding transgender rights who said "the love of Christ knows no bounds" failed to take into account that "love does not delight in iniquity but rejoices in the truth". Someone bearing false witness as to another person's real biology would seem to constitute a pretty definitive boundary to me.
I remember Jen Wilkin did an article for TGC a few years back on three stereotypical "females" in the church. In it she gave an anecdote about meeting with her pastor (sounded 99% like it was MC when she began to serve in an official position at the Village) and how refreshing it was that he wasn't afraid to meet with her in private, hug her, and tell her he wasn't afraid of her. And I thought how incredibly unwise and immature this man was. If it was indeed Matt, it shows he has been careless with boundaries for some time and someone should've noticed it long ago.
The hypocrisy of BigEva females who rail against the Billy Graham/Mike Pence protocol and then turn around and carry on about the church's guilt of misogyny and abuse when a minister has sex with an adult or teen female is not really bearable.
I was pondering why the Village church would get attorneys involved. I wonder if they expect a civil action to be brought against Chandler and the Village Church?
I didn't hear one mention of sin, repentance or sanctification. Not once did this man ask his congregation for forgiveness. This to me is the bigger problem.
@@eternalrealist2836 uh.. okay. I still stand by my initial assessment. He did not in any way demonstrate an attitude of repentance nor did he say he had sinned. It was all talk of mistakes and lack of wisdom. Blah blah blah. The only thing I think he was sorry for was getting caught.
Thank you for covering Be the Bridge. Be the Bridge is a mandatory training for a local Christian adoption agency. We almost went with the agency and found out they use Be the Bridge materials. Be the Bridge materials use a lot of woke terms and it's disturbing.
It’s getting to the point with pastors and social media that it might be wise for churches and elder boards to require their pastors/leaders leave social media completely. It’s an easy solution
I do find it incredibly annoying how the pastor treats the congregation in a child like manner. Rather than being clear and concise, he’s all about caring for their emotions…
its a snow job....while he is trying to make himself look holy and good by praising the decision of the lying elders in cahoots with him.... this is a planned out PR that is too big for their small hands to cover
If it was such a small, insignificant, unwise, reoccurring encounter, he wouldn't need to be "put on a leave of absence.". There's a time to be corrected in private and allow time for proof of repentance. This "OMW!! You sinned!! AND you're a Senior Pastor!!" is way over the top. There's definitely more to it... or they are incredibly legalistic and have a completely unattainable standard ANYONE could maintain.
Warned my friends in the Church about Matt Chandler a long time ago. Not surprised he’s Woke! He was woke before it was popular to be woke. Maybe he’ll just go away. Many in the Church have no discernment whatsoever. He was always weird to me. Wake up true believers. Thank you Jon!
The fact that they keep beating the drum that this was an inappropriate thing makes me wonder if this was closer to an emotional affair than they are letting on. I will pray for Matt and his family. And for the village church. May God heal Matt and Lauren and restore their marriage. May God heal their congregation and not allow this to divide them. I do agree that the vague PR spin lingo is unhelpful and if it is not actually an affair, they certainly have made this seem much worse than it was. It’s hard to read what they are not saying. I also find it wholly unfair to accuse Matt of being the abuser and using power to prey on the woman. There isn’t any hard evidence that the woman wasn’t also complicit.
It looks like Matt Chandler forgot about Ephesians 4:29 and 5:4 "Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear" and "Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving."
The elders going to the lawyers is a cop-out for the elders. They gave away the responsibility of finding fault (seemingly) to maintain their relationship with Matt.
Whatever has gone on here this is a completely inappropriate use of a Sunday Morning worship service. A statement ought to have been issued midweek & a different preacher there on Sunday. People are there to worship not handle stuff like this.
Clarity is clarity. This was not clarity but further obfuscation. But no matter how much diffusion the Village Church may employ, God knows the truth and He will lay bear all things in His time.
If my husband behaved this way, I would wonder why he wanted to banter, joke, and mock with someone not ME! This is an emotional affair. He better go read (or reread) Titus and James. Then REPENT and articulate the SIN word!!!!
Sounds like an emotional affair. Like texting morning to night...sharing mundane parts of their days, joking about one anothers spouses. Maybe Good Morning/ Goodnight DMs.
A simple viewing of the movie 'When Harry Met Sally' would've instructed him on this. If one is married, one cannot be "friends" with another woman. Matt crossed the line.
So we have at least four people - perhaps more - who knew this sort of thing was going on and thought it was OK. These people include Chandler's wife who probably has something to do with whatever Ladies' ministries or such the church has, and the other couple. Where are they in the church hierarchy? What corrective discipline (not punishment) are we going to bring to bear for them? Or do they get a pass even though they have actively and knowlingly allowed the behavior to persist? The church doesn't just have a Chandler problem; it's broader than that.
I agree with your observation that the explanation and explanation of it are vague. To be entirely fair, they need to be very specific when a member or a pastor is coming under the discipline of the church-at least so they ca be sure that there’s a valid, just cause for that discipline, and not a political game going on in the church staff. However, I think he was clear in the sense of “above reproach”, where Matt 1) violated the church’s policy on social media communication. 2) coarse language/in appropriate jokes unbecoming of an elder. It sounds like there wasn’t any explicit, overt violation (other than the social media policy), but there was reasonable suspicion to step in. I applaud their decision, assuming there’s no shuffling behind the scene.
This “disorienting” Language that they’re using is just playing a shell game with words. Lots of people do this. Sam Allberry takes what the word of God calls degrading passions and calls it “same-sex attraction”. They do not want to call their sin what the Bible calls it they want to give it a different name, a water down name.
“controlling the language” is cornerstone to reformer /calvinist types….. radio/ seminary/publishing mill of the calvinistic groups has been upended last 10 years and continues on……. to the narrator of this video , check out John Lennox Determined to Believe
When he started his little speech with saying that he plans on being the lead pastor for the next 20 years showed me just how "repentant" he is. If what he did is not a big deal, why is he stepping down? If it is a big deal, why only the temporary leave of absence? As if this is some hiccup for him to show penance for a few months. Also, he has been shamelessly preaching for the last few months while his elders knew of this and while this outside law firm and doubtless PR spin team were word-smithing his leave of absence? Please...
My introduction to Matt Chandler was about eight years ago when he referred to men as "boys who can shave." I dismissed him as a reputable teacher then and there. As it turns out that language was all projection. *He* was the "boy who can shave," not the men he was calling out.
When I was a law enforcement officer, I was called back for an internal investigation. At the time, I believed I was being called as a witness, because I was a trainee under the guidance of my training officer and supervisor. I thought it was an investigation that should be straightforward and simple. Well, once I got in the room, I quickly realized I was being interrogated. They were accusing me of failure to report a crime (which is fireable and even easier to get fired for as a trainee, because I was on probation). After the interview, in which I explained we had no evidence a crime was committed and we documented that appropriately, one of the internal affairs officers said to me, "If you ever have a feeling that you should wrote a report, just do it." I said, "And if I don't have that feeling? Procedure doesn't work on a feeling. You either write a report because you have probable cause to believe a crime has been committed, or you don't write a crime because there is no probably cause. There was no probable cause. What do I do next?" No answer. I knew law enforcement was in big trouble if we began documenting things solely based on a feeling. This case is giving me that vibe. There is no guidance. There is no rule a law. Just a feeling on how things should work. And somehow, Chandler crossed that feeling. Not too bad, but enough. No more questions. He either sinned and they are soft peddaling or he didn't and they are throwing him and this woman and their families under the bus. This is not what Christian discipline looks like.
This is such a product of the times we live in. It is none of my business, yet here I am watching two or three RUclipsrs' evaluation of the situation. This would not have been possible before social media.
This is sad and embarrassing. The overly cautiousness of Matt's wording of his inappropriateness with the women is disheartening and seems to have been carefully worded by an image consultant. Also, his praying for the situation was not wise. He is in no position to pray at this moment.
Seems like this should have been handled internally w the church members only. The public explanation by the church was not really helpful or needed if as they say it wasn’t sexual or romantic in nature. Bizarre!
Man, anyone who was around in the 80s remembers the hugely public and ugly Jimmy Swaggart fiasco and how it reflected on all of American Christendom. This has a similar stench.
I wish this was broken down into shorter videos. With my schedule I have a hard time listening to something an hour and a half long. I'm a missionary in a Christian print shop in Southern France. Thank you for your work. I'm reading "Christianity and social justice" right now.
So why bother with an investigation if you've already decided that what he did wasn't deserving of disqualification? Not confident in any investigation when the elders are already looking forward to the pastors return.
The vagueness of information for the accusation is not helpful for the body here. The elders should provide more information than "frequency" and "familiarity". Those are what corporate industry would call "word sets". They are meant not to bring clarity but to provide information without it being offensive or detrimental to the organization or person. When it comes to church discipline and it comes to a pastor who is so public, and the offense has been made public, then the information should be provided to the whole church. It should be something that is uncomfortable for the church and the pastor. It is meant to cause the body to take note and heed the warning. It is also meant to purify the church. However, when you make the accusation vague... you circumvent the severity and the discipline. The requirement in 1Timothy 3:1-7 must be true of Matt. If they say he has not been "above reproach" and has not been self-controlled, or respectable, or hospitable... then he no longer qualifies as a Pastor and not only should step down, but now is no longer able to serve as pastor ever again. He must now obediently give up the role, repent, and look to God for guidance. "Pastor" is no longer an option. If he is in Christ, he is not condemned, but will endure consequences for his actions. Also, Village church elders are also being put on the spot to see how they rightly use church discipline. If Matt is not removed as "pastor" permanently then they too will no longer be above reproach. May God give wisdom, courage, boldness, and encouragement as they hopefully follow his word.
This is either not a big deal and he wants attention and sympathy from his congregation or there is more and he wanted to “tattle tale” on himself before the other person could “tattle tale” on him with the full truth. He somehow seems like a “victim” and shouldnt we all think he’s wonderful for being a “better Christian” than everyone else. According to him nothing happened so why is he doing the fake humility fake cry thing? Sheesh. He is a drama hog🙄
That’s my thought too. Proverbs does say that the one who shares the story first normally is browned more than the one who tells after. Chandler sounds like he’s trying to cut this off at the pass.
Along with these other comments, what about the privacy of others whose texts may be on the cell phone? A pastor is likely to have private conversations with people he is counseling, not to mention just plain other private communication. This is a dangerous path. The elders need to handle it for sure.
What does it say about these elders when they allowed him to preach a social justice gospel, a false gospel, and went outside the church to handle sin within the church? Shameful.
Bolt-action rifles are and were used by the military. Shotguns are and were used by the military. Lever-action rifles were used by the military Semiautomatic pistols - 9mm, 40 SW, 45ACP, 380ACP, 50AE - are and were used by the military. Revolver pistols - 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, 22 LR - are and were used by the military. So to what type of firearm did the featured speaker refer? Her ignorance of firearms and their use and the origin of and reasons for the 2A is like a massive void of empty space, offering nothing to inform, and into which, if one falls, only the long embrace of nothingness follows.
Is this a worship service? At my church if there Is church family business they wait until the end of the service, dismiss any who aren't concerned and then make the report. I'm sorry for the unbelievers listening to this.
Yes its a worship service from what I gather. My church does something similar as your church. My previous church our head pastor was dismissed in 2012 and the church held a very similar service on Sunday morning and they were very vague about why he was leaving. The only thing we knew was he was no longer qualified.
TVC wants unbelievers to hear this kind of stuff. When I was a regular attender this was something that was said often. “We want the mess to be visible.”
Sounds like an emotional affair. However, people should have stopped following the village church years ago. The way they treated their members during their last scandal was horrible. I imagine most of the devoted Christians have already left.
@@KennethSee Something happened after the ‘abortion is murder’ sermon blew up across the country. It’s like the air got taken out of the place and sermons stopped being confrontational/convicting in the right way. First Bleecker left, then the music became mostly comfort our emotions instead of actual praise, then BLM/wokeness, then scandal after scandal, then TERRIBLE c-v19 response, like they were taking a vacation from ministry. All of these things just compounded, and the enormous size never helped. Somewhere between 2018-2019 I just held myself at arms’ length and decided to belong to another community along the way.
To me, it sounds like it was counseling sessions that overflowed to social media messages. Reason I think that is both spouses knew and were fine with the level of transparency. I've given marital advice in my office that has thrown people off and they laughed, so I could understand the "course jesting," but I would never do that outside of an office counseling session. It also seems like the lady had some feelings for Matt and her friend figured it out. Reason I think that is the friend was the only one who had a problem, not the spouses. "Inability to see what I was in" leads me to believe he was shocked (disoriented). He also said he's embarrassed and he feels stupid and has embarrassed his family. This is why I think the lady developed feelings for him. I don't think it was reciprocated. I think he was so thrown off by that that he went straight to the elders and they agreed to give him a vacation to protect him. I really don't think he had kind of inappropriate relationship with the lady. I think he took counseling outside of his office, which was stupid. I also think they're preemptively dealing with it so the SBC and their groups can't take the church or him out. I think this is protection. I'm not a Matt Chandler fan, but I really don't think he did anything sinful, I think he did something unwise. Social media has made it easier to blur the lines and take counseling outside the office, which should never happen.
I agree with most of what you said. But coarse joking is a sin (Ephesians 5) and not a small one, especially when engaged in with a church member you’re counseling. He was there to provide godly counsel, not foolish talking.
@@scwienert absolutely correct. My point was I could understand how marital advice could misunderstood as "course jesting" taken out of context. Some things I've advised have made people die laughing, but I wasn't joking, and I get how that could be taken wrong by a 3rd party and considering course jesting when it certainly was not.
This look like the paid administrative leave to which a police officer is assigned after using a firearm. Chandler doesn’t confess sin; he seems disappointed to have gotten caught.
He is acknowledging that the Word of God holds him to a higher standard and yet he is very concerned about a supposed innocent indiscretion but not about preaching a false gospel 🥴
"younger as sisters, with all purity." That is what they all the time are revering to. So, he crossed a line there. Certain things you normally do not think or say to your biological sister.
How do you know she has had no accountability? Do you want them to drag her on stage just so you can feel better about it? He’s already a public figure as lead pastor so it makes sense that his part of this is public.
The place is a neo-fertility-cult and she is the image of their goddess and was made after her likeness. Of course their goddesses can't be guilty of anything. Every Sunday their message is: (sound it out) Worship York Hunt! 🤣
Doctrinal Watchdog: How does skin color determine morality? Not only that, you have zero evidence that skin color plays a role in investigations. "Privilege," is usually granted to people of power, influence or money. Humans are sinful. There is no," sinful" skincolor Drop the racism.
To what extent have the radicals who have been platformed by Matt Chandler shown any interest in talking about sanctification, about Jesus, about true spirituality, about anything other than their racial animosities and obsessions?
Ok. Yeah I see what you’re saying. Not clear in the least. Are they separating the man from the actions of the man? It would be helpful for someone to share the villages policy.
He said we believe in brother/sister relationships here, but then said it went past that. What’s passed that? If he misspoke then the leadership needs to correct that, but if it went past that, to me seems to signify emotional affair. “There was a familiarity that played itself out in coarse and foolish joking.” Then he gets up there and says that and then jokes about an unbeliever saying, “What the H?” But also, to the point of another woman who commented on here, why would he even want to joke around in a coarse manner with anyone but his wife? Seriously, value and protect your marriage. For him to not put up those walls is incredibly immature and foolish. I would have a hard time being under a pastor and trusting his discernment and wisdom if he made this mistake. Edit: The clarification was not clear, the facts told used the exact phrases and buzzwords in Matt’s statement. “Disorienting, violate our internal social media policy (which part of the policy was violated and how?), frequency and familiarity, language appropriate for a pastor, disciplinary and developmental” Kinda reeks of a PR move. I don’t know what is past a brother/sister relationship but found not to be romantic by a third-party investigation. I’m not saying this previous situation is connected, but Matt’s wife knew of the direct messages, and the woman’s husband knew of the direct messages, and there was an incident with a Village Church satellite church in 2016 where the Pastors were swingers. 😳😳😳 99% not related, but just disturbing. Just release the redacted messages.
Matt Chandler was an incredible blessing to many believers. But having listened or read his book , to having survived brain cancer to the sermon about the “ rose” was an amazing opportunity. But, I’m afraid that Matt was like the guy who walks in a “ Allsups” at 2am too buy a fried burrito with a check. We now know the check was only as good as the writer.
1. If it's disorienting, worthy of a leave of absence, but not worthy of firing him, release the messages. Let the public see them. They weren't sexual or romantic, right? 2. Social media should be off limits for leaders, fathers, and husbands. Yes, I do not have any social media. 5 years now, you wouldn't believe how much new time I found.
Yes,they may not always be physically intimate, but romance is definitely focused on emotions hence the affair part. The emotional bond is really far worse in many ways than the physical act. My father cheated on my mother many times physically, but it wasn’t until his “friendship” with an old family friend rekindled that any of his past indiscretions were fond out. It was his emotional involvement with this woman that tore apart our family.
A quick/bright pastor in Seattle feigned obtuseness all the way through his removal. These types won't acknowledge or remove themselves on their own even when the obvious is layed bare for all to see.
The elder is also a corrupt liar as well - He said that Mat Chandler, being in submission whole heartedly to the elders, is significant....as thought this was an option...pastor are to be above repraoch and being submissive to the elders is not a option.... who is this elder kidding? This elder will say 3 other things that are also a serious contradiction if you lkisten carefully.
How in the world was his behavior not disqualifying of an elder? If he did something that was not appropriate the required lawyer invesdtigation and intervention, than he no longer qualifies as being above reproach....this is ridiculous and listening to this elder is really so offensive and treating the listeners are stupid and ignorant. if you remove a pastor for whatever reason, then his character is no longer above reproach, which automaticall disqualifies him to continue as a pastor..who are they kidding???
The problem with the Acts 29 clip is the same problem that most evangelicals face day in, day out: If you love the world, you CANNOT love God. John is clear in his gospel and epistles that the world and Christianity do not mix. In fact, literally translating the Greek in 1 John 2:15 is much firmer than the English implies: "STOP loving the world... If anyone loves the world the love of the Father is not in them." Yet for decades now there is this misconception that because "God so loved the world" it must mean that his Church is tasked with the same directive. No, our NEW commandment is set forth in John 13:34-35, "Love one another [of the same kind, i.e., the Church] as I have loved you. By your love one for another will they [the outside world] know that you are my disciples." (Paraphrased the last one, but point is clear.) We witness to the world by our love for one another within the body of Christ. We do not go out to evangelize, and most certainly do not adapt the language and practices of the world, but wait for opportunities to share the hope that is within us (1 Peter 3:15).
This seems to validate the Pence principal and why we shouldn't entertain the Aimee Byrd "Why Can't We Be Friends?" nonsense.
It was the same for me about the young restless and reformed guys. I could never get into Chandler, Driscoll, Chan, or Platt. I read some of there stuff and listened to them, but something seemed odd about them. Maybe it's because I was introduced first to (and still love listening to) J Vernon McGee, Macarthur, Wilson, and Sproul (ligonier).
having to listen to these people you mentioned is near hell on earth.
Interaction that is too frequent and familiarity between a man and a woman is flirting. It may not be overtly sexual or a sexual act but it speaks to the heart issue that leads to those things
After listening again to what Matt Chandler said, I noticed that he did apologize and express his embarrassment, but he never repented of the sin that is behind his need to step down. It is almost as if he does not recognize, or is unwilling to admit, what he did wrong.
Or that there wasn’t anything
Matt Chandler reminds me of a car salesman who wants you to think he is your best friend. He may be sincere, but there is just something about him that makes my radar go off when he starts this whiny, crying shtick. Haven't listened to him much but when I do he seems very insincere. My hope is that he is sincere and is going to turn from whatever sin is going on and allows God to correct him.
I get same feeling even before he went fully woke, I’ve always felt he was fake
@@joncappo7297 look at the story of how he instantly fired five laymen who warned him about his deputy at Acts 29 Steve Timmis in 2012. That was well before his woke phase. He ended up having to fire Steve Timmis in 2020 because the reports of his abusiveness reached critical mass. I would not buy a used car from Matt Chandler.
Yep, exactly. Never trusted this guy.
Correction it was around 2015 when Chandler fired the five whistleblowers. About the time his wokeness was whipping into high gear.
Good observation.
I predict a “healing restorative”season followed by the release of a book with companion study that will be marketed to churches and in the religious section of chain book stores. We’ll see.
100%
😂
Most likely!
I am confused why the elders did not feel competent to investigate the situation and draw conclusions for themselves. Why would they hand responsibility over to an outside law firm? Although Paul is dealing with a different situation, his conclusions seem to apply to this situation as well, "Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? (1 Cor. 6:1-3, NASB).
I really felt that scripture passage condemned what the Southern Baptists did with Guidepost.
Well that makes the assumption they care what the Bible says about it. Obviously, they don't, or they wouldn't be involved with the woke stuff to start with.
Yes the civil magistrate does not have authority in church matters. This is a violation of the 1st amendment principle
That woke pastor commenting regarding transgender rights who said "the love of Christ knows no bounds" failed to take into account that "love does not delight in iniquity but rejoices in the truth". Someone bearing false witness as to another person's real biology would seem to constitute a pretty definitive boundary to me.
Matt Chandler has come up with yet another way to waste everyone’s time while the world is collapsing.
I remember Jen Wilkin did an article for TGC a few years back on three stereotypical "females" in the church. In it she gave an anecdote about meeting with her pastor (sounded 99% like it was MC when she began to serve in an official position at the Village) and how refreshing it was that he wasn't afraid to meet with her in private, hug her, and tell her he wasn't afraid of her.
And I thought how incredibly unwise and immature this man was. If it was indeed Matt, it shows he has been careless with boundaries for some time and someone should've noticed it long ago.
Could it be a feminist sting?
The hypocrisy of BigEva females who rail against the Billy Graham/Mike Pence protocol and then turn around and carry on about the church's guilt of misogyny and abuse when a minister has sex with an adult or teen female is not really bearable.
He has all the markers of a narcissist so how could he behave otherwise...the world, after all, orbits around him.
I remember reading that same article. I came to a different conclusion than you.
I was pondering why the Village church would get attorneys involved. I wonder if they expect a civil action to be brought against Chandler and the Village Church?
I didn't hear one mention of sin, repentance or sanctification. Not once did this man ask his congregation for forgiveness. This to me is the bigger problem.
Bingo
He did. 14:30
@@eternalrealist2836 uh.. okay. I still stand by my initial assessment. He did not in any way demonstrate an attitude of repentance nor did he say he had sinned. It was all talk of mistakes and lack of wisdom. Blah blah blah. The only thing I think he was sorry for was getting caught.
Thank you for covering Be the Bridge. Be the Bridge is a mandatory training for a local Christian adoption agency. We almost went with the agency and found out they use Be the Bridge materials. Be the Bridge materials use a lot of woke terms and it's disturbing.
It’s getting to the point with pastors and social media that it might be wise for churches and elder boards to require their pastors/leaders leave social media completely. It’s an easy solution
YES!!!! They don’t need it
I do find it incredibly annoying how the pastor treats the congregation in a child like manner. Rather than being clear and concise, he’s all about caring for their emotions…
Amen! It’s degrading
YES! My thoughts exactly...
its a snow job....while he is trying to make himself look holy and good by praising the decision of the lying elders in cahoots with him.... this is a planned out PR that is too big for their small hands to cover
If it was such a small, insignificant, unwise, reoccurring encounter, he wouldn't need to be "put on a leave of absence.". There's a time to be corrected in private and allow time for proof of repentance. This "OMW!! You sinned!! AND you're a Senior Pastor!!" is way over the top. There's definitely more to it... or they are incredibly legalistic and have a completely unattainable standard ANYONE could maintain.
Yeah what they’re saying and what they’re doing doesn’t match up
Maybe the woman was a smoking hot woman, and that is why everybody in the elders group says, yeah, sure, we understand the extra attention.
Warned my friends in the Church about Matt Chandler a long time ago.
Not surprised he’s Woke! He was woke before it was popular to be woke.
Maybe he’ll just go away. Many in the Church have no discernment whatsoever.
He was always weird to me. Wake up true believers. Thank you Jon!
The fact that they keep beating the drum that this was an inappropriate thing makes me wonder if this was closer to an emotional affair than they are letting on. I will pray for Matt and his family. And for the village church. May God heal Matt and Lauren and restore their marriage. May God heal their congregation and not allow this to divide them.
I do agree that the vague PR spin lingo is unhelpful and if it is not actually an affair, they certainly have made this seem much worse than it was. It’s hard to read what they are not saying.
I also find it wholly unfair to accuse Matt of being the abuser and using power to prey on the woman. There isn’t any hard evidence that the woman wasn’t also complicit.
l
It looks like Matt Chandler forgot about Ephesians 4:29 and 5:4 "Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear" and "Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving."
The elders going to the lawyers is a cop-out for the elders. They gave away the responsibility of finding fault (seemingly) to maintain their relationship with Matt.
Create time and space for Matt's development? Whatever happened to "repent and sin no more?"
Exactly!!!!
I can’t stand this woke lingo!
Whatever has gone on here this is a completely inappropriate use of a Sunday Morning worship service. A statement ought to have been issued midweek & a different preacher there on Sunday. People are there to worship not handle stuff like this.
Yeah I think another pastor needed to address this, not him
“Tell it to the church”
I disagree op
Clarity is clarity. This was not clarity but further obfuscation. But no matter how much diffusion the Village Church may employ, God knows the truth and He will lay bear all things in His time.
If my husband behaved this way, I would wonder why he wanted to banter, joke, and mock with someone not ME! This is an emotional affair. He better go read (or reread) Titus and James. Then REPENT and articulate the SIN word!!!!
Amen
This Village statement is not really "clear". It seems like it was designed to give an appearance of clarity without actually having clarity.
It’s a real skill to be able to talk so much yet say nothing. If it’s not sexual then what is it that’s so awful?
It's only a skill if people actually think much was said when nothing was said.
Exactly.
The relationship can become inappropriately intimate without being sexual or romantic.
because it's all for show
@@TalyaT922 intimate = romantic
Sounds like an emotional affair. Like texting morning to night...sharing mundane parts of their days, joking about one anothers spouses. Maybe Good Morning/ Goodnight DMs.
How does Matt not have the wisdom to understand one should NOT be one on one friends with another woman with texting and etc. ??
Chemo brain? Idk
A simple viewing of the movie 'When Harry Met Sally' would've instructed him on this. If one is married, one cannot be "friends" with another woman. Matt crossed the line.
Don’t forget ya boy Voddie too! He’s still keeping it real.
So we have at least four people - perhaps more - who knew this sort of thing was going on and thought it was OK. These people include Chandler's wife who probably has something to do with whatever Ladies' ministries or such the church has, and the other couple. Where are they in the church hierarchy? What corrective discipline (not punishment) are we going to bring to bear for them? Or do they get a pass even though they have actively and knowlingly allowed the behavior to persist? The church doesn't just have a Chandler problem; it's broader than that.
This is called sin and spin. Be sure there is much more and this is damage control.
I agree with your observation that the explanation and explanation of it are vague. To be entirely fair, they need to be very specific when a member or a pastor is coming under the discipline of the church-at least so they ca be sure that there’s a valid, just cause for that discipline, and not a political game going on in the church staff.
However, I think he was clear in the sense of “above reproach”, where Matt
1) violated the church’s policy on social media communication.
2) coarse language/in appropriate jokes unbecoming of an elder.
It sounds like there wasn’t any explicit, overt violation (other than the social media policy), but there was reasonable suspicion to step in. I applaud their decision, assuming there’s no shuffling behind the scene.
This “disorienting” Language that they’re using is just playing a shell game with words. Lots of people do this. Sam Allberry takes what the word of God calls degrading passions and calls it “same-sex attraction”. They do not want to call their sin what the Bible calls it they want to give it a different name, a water down name.
Yep. Controlling the language is one of the key weapons these types use.
“controlling the language” is cornerstone to reformer /calvinist types….. radio/ seminary/publishing mill of the calvinistic groups has been upended last 10 years and continues on……. to the narrator of this video , check out John Lennox Determined to Believe
When he started his little speech with saying that he plans on being the lead pastor for the next 20 years showed me just how "repentant" he is.
If what he did is not a big deal, why is he stepping down? If it is a big deal, why only the temporary leave of absence? As if this is some hiccup for him to show penance for a few months.
Also, he has been shamelessly preaching for the last few months while his elders knew of this and while this outside law firm and doubtless PR spin team were word-smithing his leave of absence? Please...
cause it's all fake
The fact that TVC sent Matt up there to talk at all is very manipulative to the congregation
I am so saddened by the news about Chandler. I wanted him to stop being woke. Not fall like this.
I hate to be insensitive this is a disaster but I burst into laughter when he started crying. WHY IS HE CRYING IF HE DID NOTHING WRONG!?!?!?!?!?
They have to show “remorse” or else they look even worse!
Sad he’s losing power and influence
My heart breaks hearing the things that are going on in some of these churches you put on this podcast. I am praying for the church.
My introduction to Matt Chandler was about eight years ago when he referred to men as "boys who can shave." I dismissed him as a reputable teacher then and there. As it turns out that language was all projection. *He* was the "boy who can shave," not the men he was calling out.
According to his confession, he’s apologizing for being stupid… so glad that there’s no sin involved 👍🏻
If there’s no sin there’s nothing to apologize for fwiw
When I was a law enforcement officer, I was called back for an internal investigation. At the time, I believed I was being called as a witness, because I was a trainee under the guidance of my training officer and supervisor. I thought it was an investigation that should be straightforward and simple. Well, once I got in the room, I quickly realized I was being interrogated. They were accusing me of failure to report a crime (which is fireable and even easier to get fired for as a trainee, because I was on probation). After the interview, in which I explained we had no evidence a crime was committed and we documented that appropriately, one of the internal affairs officers said to me, "If you ever have a feeling that you should wrote a report, just do it." I said, "And if I don't have that feeling? Procedure doesn't work on a feeling. You either write a report because you have probable cause to believe a crime has been committed, or you don't write a crime because there is no probably cause. There was no probable cause. What do I do next?" No answer. I knew law enforcement was in big trouble if we began documenting things solely based on a feeling.
This case is giving me that vibe. There is no guidance. There is no rule a law. Just a feeling on how things should work. And somehow, Chandler crossed that feeling. Not too bad, but enough. No more questions. He either sinned and they are soft peddaling or he didn't and they are throwing him and this woman and their families under the bus. This is not what Christian discipline looks like.
They are doing their best to keep the IMAGE of mc and the church intact.
You know what they say....go woke.....
Y’all are so gullible
Thank you for your attempt at gaslighting. It won’t succeed with this audience.
This is such a product of the times we live in. It is none of my business, yet here I am watching two or three RUclipsrs' evaluation of the situation. This would not have been possible before social media.
Found another one that I am interested in. Thank you! ✝️
Very good analysis, Jon, and very fair.
This is sad and embarrassing. The overly cautiousness of Matt's wording of his inappropriateness with the women is disheartening and seems to have been carefully worded by an image consultant. Also, his praying for the situation was not wise. He is in no position to pray at this moment.
Seems like this should have been handled internally w the church members only. The public explanation by the church was not really helpful or needed if as they say it wasn’t sexual or romantic in nature. Bizarre!
Man, anyone who was around in the 80s remembers the hugely public and ugly Jimmy Swaggart fiasco and how it reflected on all of American Christendom. This has a similar stench.
You don’t mean Ted haggard?
@@cosmictreason2242 He was another one. But there quite a few number of such scandals in the 80s.
I wish this was broken down into shorter videos. With my schedule I have a hard time listening to something an hour and a half long. I'm a missionary in a Christian print shop in Southern France. Thank you for your work. I'm reading "Christianity and social justice" right now.
Just sub’d. You’re a good man. Thanks for information my brother.
Biblically, what is a “lead” pastor? References please.
We’re putting ourselves and churches into the hands of the world.
Love not the world.
The world will gladly tear us apart.
The "disorientation" seems to be fully created by them.
So why bother with an investigation if you've already decided that what he did wasn't deserving of disqualification? Not confident in any investigation when the elders are already looking forward to the pastors return.
Exactly
The vagueness of information for the accusation is not helpful for the body here. The elders should provide more information than "frequency" and "familiarity". Those are what corporate industry would call "word sets". They are meant not to bring clarity but to provide information without it being offensive or detrimental to the organization or person. When it comes to church discipline and it comes to a pastor who is so public, and the offense has been made public, then the information should be provided to the whole church. It should be something that is uncomfortable for the church and the pastor. It is meant to cause the body to take note and heed the warning. It is also meant to purify the church. However, when you make the accusation vague... you circumvent the severity and the discipline. The requirement in 1Timothy 3:1-7 must be true of Matt. If they say he has not been "above reproach" and has not been self-controlled, or respectable, or hospitable... then he no longer qualifies as a Pastor and not only should step down, but now is no longer able to serve as pastor ever again. He must now obediently give up the role, repent, and look to God for guidance. "Pastor" is no longer an option. If he is in Christ, he is not condemned, but will endure consequences for his actions. Also, Village church elders are also being put on the spot to see how they rightly use church discipline. If Matt is not removed as "pastor" permanently then they too will no longer be above reproach. May God give wisdom, courage, boldness, and encouragement as they hopefully follow his word.
Please do a deep dive into acts 29 our church is in the process of joining that network and I have seen some things already they deeply concern me.
This is either not a big deal and he wants attention and sympathy from his congregation or there is more and he wanted to “tattle tale” on himself before the other person could “tattle tale” on him with the full truth. He somehow seems like a “victim” and shouldnt we all think he’s wonderful for being a “better Christian” than everyone else. According to him nothing happened so why is he doing the fake humility fake cry thing? Sheesh. He is a drama hog🙄
That’s my thought too. Proverbs does say that the one who shares the story first normally is browned more than the one who tells after.
Chandler sounds like he’s trying to cut this off at the pass.
Along with these other comments, what about the privacy of others whose texts may be on the cell phone? A pastor is likely to have private conversations with people he is counseling, not to mention just plain other private communication. This is a dangerous path. The elders need to handle it for sure.
This mealy-mouth kind of “Christian speak” is one of the reasons why unbelievers roll their eyes at Christians.
What does it say about these elders when they allowed him to preach a social justice gospel, a false gospel, and went outside the church to handle sin within the church? Shameful.
Bolt-action rifles are and were used by the military.
Shotguns are and were used by the military.
Lever-action rifles were used by the military
Semiautomatic pistols - 9mm, 40 SW, 45ACP, 380ACP, 50AE - are and were used by the military.
Revolver pistols - 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, 22 LR - are and were used by the military.
So to what type of firearm did the featured speaker refer? Her ignorance of firearms and their use and the origin of and reasons for the 2A is like a massive void of empty space, offering nothing to inform, and into which, if one falls, only the long embrace of nothingness follows.
It was his overuse of "hand talking" that made me stop listening to him. "You tracking with me?" 🙌
Is this a worship service? At my church if there Is church family business they wait until the end of the service, dismiss any who aren't concerned and then make the report. I'm sorry for the unbelievers listening to this.
Yes its a worship service from what I gather. My church does something similar as your church. My previous church our head pastor was dismissed in 2012 and the church held a very similar service on Sunday morning and they were very vague about why he was leaving. The only thing we knew was he was no longer qualified.
TVC wants unbelievers to hear this kind of stuff. When I was a regular attender this was something that was said often. “We want the mess to be visible.”
It's probably more entertaining for the unsaved than the Feminism they normally preach.
Sounds like an emotional affair. However, people should have stopped following the village church years ago. The way they treated their members during their last scandal was horrible. I imagine most of the devoted Christians have already left.
*raises hand
Yep. Left when I saw the smoke. The fire wasn’t far behind.
@@KennethSee Something happened after the ‘abortion is murder’ sermon blew up across the country. It’s like the air got taken out of the place and sermons stopped being confrontational/convicting in the right way. First Bleecker left, then the music became mostly comfort our emotions instead of actual praise, then BLM/wokeness, then scandal after scandal, then TERRIBLE c-v19 response, like they were taking a vacation from ministry. All of these things just compounded, and the enormous size never helped. Somewhere between 2018-2019 I just held myself at arms’ length and decided to belong to another community along the way.
@@cody_t I left in early 2017. Had been there for three years at that point. The BLM stuff was going strong when I did. Sad to say.
If the Social Justice crowd rejects the Gospel's why expect them to follow bible instructions on dealing with sin within the church?
Agree that this way of dealing with this was short-cited. This opened the door to all sorts of problems.
Gonna grab the share link from this video and put it in the comments of Allie Beth Stuckey’s video on this, which I’ll check out next
I can't take the whole Mr. Rogers Neighborhood vibe at the Village. I think I lost 5% of my free testosterone listening to that guy in the plaid shirt
Dude was effeminate as heck.
To me, it sounds like it was counseling sessions that overflowed to social media messages. Reason I think that is both spouses knew and were fine with the level of transparency. I've given marital advice in my office that has thrown people off and they laughed, so I could understand the "course jesting," but I would never do that outside of an office counseling session.
It also seems like the lady had some feelings for Matt and her friend figured it out. Reason I think that is the friend was the only one who had a problem, not the spouses.
"Inability to see what I was in" leads me to believe he was shocked (disoriented). He also said he's embarrassed and he feels stupid and has embarrassed his family. This is why I think the lady developed feelings for him. I don't think it was reciprocated. I think he was so thrown off by that that he went straight to the elders and they agreed to give him a vacation to protect him.
I really don't think he had kind of inappropriate relationship with the lady. I think he took counseling outside of his office, which was stupid.
I also think they're preemptively dealing with it so the SBC and their groups can't take the church or him out. I think this is protection.
I'm not a Matt Chandler fan, but I really don't think he did anything sinful, I think he did something unwise. Social media has made it easier to blur the lines and take counseling outside the office, which should never happen.
It’s either this option, or it’s that they’re denying that there’s some worse
I agree with most of what you said. But coarse joking is a sin (Ephesians 5) and not a small one, especially when engaged in with a church member you’re counseling. He was there to provide godly counsel, not foolish talking.
@@scwienert absolutely correct. My point was I could understand how marital advice could misunderstood as "course jesting" taken out of context. Some things I've advised have made people die laughing, but I wasn't joking, and I get how that could be taken wrong by a 3rd party and considering course jesting when it certainly was not.
John MacArthur. ✔️
Doug Wilson. ✔️
Todd Friel. ✔️
After hearing the elder. It also sounds like the friend felt like her friend was falling for him
The Law Firm the church hired put both pastors speech together.
Also, both pastors use similar words.
This look like the paid administrative leave to which a police officer is assigned after using a firearm. Chandler doesn’t confess sin; he seems disappointed to have gotten caught.
Clear as mud....
Also, can you link to the Wilson article or video that you mentioned?
“ whatever this is”
Matt said- I guess he doesn’t know what he did also-- or not acknowledging it …
WEIRD & VAGUE
Weepy preachers are a big turn-off with me; it always seems like such men are trying to emotionally manipulate the congregation.
He is acknowledging that the Word of God holds him to a higher standard and yet he is very concerned about a supposed innocent indiscretion but not about preaching a false gospel 🥴
"younger as sisters, with all purity." That is what they all the time are revering to. So, he crossed a line there. Certain things you normally do not think or say to your biological sister.
The woman has no accountability? Really?
If you’re familiar with Matt Chandler, yes. Women are not accountable for anything they do.
How do you know she has had no accountability? Do you want them to drag her on stage just so you can feel better about it? He’s already a public figure as lead pastor so it makes sense that his part of this is public.
The place is a neo-fertility-cult and she is the image of their goddess and was made after her likeness. Of course their goddesses can't be guilty of anything. Every Sunday their message is: (sound it out) Worship York Hunt! 🤣
@@pugsley201 the other guy said that she can tell her story when she wants. They are communicating that she’s purely a victim and not responsible
Chandler should have stepped down when he started spouting his woke nonsense. This current issue is simply another reason.
Chandler's white privilege couldn't save him this time.
Oh, don't hold your breath looking for a compromised church to do the right thing.
😁
😂😂
Doctrinal Watchdog: How does skin color determine morality?
Not only that, you have zero evidence that skin color plays a role in investigations.
"Privilege," is usually granted to people of power, influence or money.
Humans are sinful.
There is no," sinful" skincolor
Drop the racism.
🤣🤣🤣
To what extent have the radicals who have been platformed by Matt Chandler shown any interest in talking about sanctification, about Jesus, about true spirituality, about anything other than their racial animosities and obsessions?
Ok. Yeah I see what you’re saying. Not clear in the least. Are they separating the man from the actions of the man?
It would be helpful for someone to share the villages policy.
Are they SBC?
He said we believe in brother/sister relationships here, but then said it went past that. What’s passed that? If he misspoke then the leadership needs to correct that, but if it went past that, to me seems to signify emotional affair.
“There was a familiarity that played itself out in coarse and foolish joking.”
Then he gets up there and says that and then jokes about an unbeliever saying, “What the H?”
But also, to the point of another woman who commented on here, why would he even want to joke around in a coarse manner with anyone but his wife? Seriously, value and protect your marriage. For him to not put up those walls is incredibly immature and foolish. I would have a hard time being under a pastor and trusting his discernment and wisdom if he made this mistake.
Edit: The clarification was not clear, the facts told used the exact phrases and buzzwords in Matt’s statement. “Disorienting, violate our internal social media policy (which part of the policy was violated and how?), frequency and familiarity, language appropriate for a pastor, disciplinary and developmental”
Kinda reeks of a PR move. I don’t know what is past a brother/sister relationship but found not to be romantic by a third-party investigation.
I’m not saying this previous situation is connected, but Matt’s wife knew of the direct messages, and the woman’s husband knew of the direct messages, and there was an incident with a Village Church satellite church in 2016 where the Pastors were swingers. 😳😳😳 99% not related, but just disturbing.
Just release the redacted messages.
This just feels so icky from Chandler. Smarmy and reeking of half truths
I loved him back in his prewoke days.
@@downlow0075 Same. He brought me to the doctrines of grace. Glad I didn’t follow him further.
Matt Chandler was an incredible blessing to many believers. But having listened or read his book , to having survived brain cancer to the sermon about the “ rose” was an amazing opportunity. But, I’m afraid that Matt was like the guy who walks in a “ Allsups” at 2am too buy a fried burrito with a check. We now know the check was only as good as the writer.
I wanna see a black man on that stage while Chandler is out. If they’re really down for the anti-racist struggle!
The last black pastor they had didn’t end so well…
@@KennethSee should have went with the “anglo 8”
Can’t get a white 8 if your lead pastor is a white 3.
@@KennethSee I don’t know that reference
@@cosmictreason2242 The former Fort Worth pastor was recording college guys taking showers in his bathroom at his home…
1. If it's disorienting, worthy of a leave of absence, but not worthy of firing him, release the messages. Let the public see them. They weren't sexual or romantic, right?
2. Social media should be off limits for leaders, fathers, and husbands. Yes, I do not have any social media. 5 years now, you wouldn't believe how much new time I found.
Are emotional affairs always romantic? Or perhaps it hadn't gone to romantic but unchecked would lead to issues?
Yes,they may not always be physically intimate, but romance is definitely focused on emotions hence the affair part.
The emotional bond is really far worse in many ways than the physical act. My father cheated on my mother many times physically, but it wasn’t until his “friendship” with an old family friend rekindled that any of his past indiscretions were fond out. It was his emotional involvement with this woman that tore apart our family.
No, emotional affairs don’t always lead to romance but they are just as damaging to the marital bond.
They are inherently romantic
A quick/bright pastor in Seattle feigned obtuseness all the way through his removal. These types won't acknowledge or remove themselves on their own even when the obvious is layed bare for all to see.
Idolatry. They are their own little gods …
The elder is also a corrupt liar as well - He said that Mat Chandler, being in submission whole heartedly to the elders, is significant....as thought this was an option...pastor are to be above repraoch and being submissive to the elders is not a option.... who is this elder kidding? This elder will say 3 other things that are also a serious contradiction if you lkisten carefully.
What, did Matt Chandler get replaced by an african-american nine?
How in the world was his behavior not disqualifying of an elder? If he did something that was not appropriate the required lawyer invesdtigation and intervention, than he no longer qualifies as being above reproach....this is ridiculous and listening to this elder is really so offensive and treating the listeners are stupid and ignorant. if you remove a pastor for whatever reason, then his character is no longer above reproach, which automaticall disqualifies him to continue as a pastor..who are they kidding???
The problem with the Acts 29 clip is the same problem that most evangelicals face day in, day out: If you love the world, you CANNOT love God. John is clear in his gospel and epistles that the world and Christianity do not mix. In fact, literally translating the Greek in 1 John 2:15 is much firmer than the English implies: "STOP loving the world... If anyone loves the world the love of the Father is not in them." Yet for decades now there is this misconception that because "God so loved the world" it must mean that his Church is tasked with the same directive. No, our NEW commandment is set forth in John 13:34-35, "Love one another [of the same kind, i.e., the Church] as I have loved you. By your love one for another will they [the outside world] know that you are my disciples." (Paraphrased the last one, but point is clear.)
We witness to the world by our love for one another within the body of Christ. We do not go out to evangelize, and most certainly do not adapt the language and practices of the world, but wait for opportunities to share the hope that is within us (1 Peter 3:15).
The "standard" is "above reproach." The course joking is inappropriate and does not support being above reproach. Very straight forward.
matt is so cringy and arrogant. he's trying to spin the situation. just wait until the other woman let's the details out.
A standing ovation? LOL why though?