+1, this is one of my all-time favourites. Sure, the VFX of the black hole haven't aged well, since we have Interstellar with its mathematically accurate depiction, and the image generated by the EHT, but as for everything else I have always thought (and still do) that this episode is fantastic, it's certainly one you can revisit to this day and still thoroughly enjoy.
As far as I remember it went like this, the Time Lords needed a potent energy source to be used by their technology, among which the TARDIS. The problem was that the universe was still new and did not have any black holes, so Rassilon and Omega had to make one. I'm not even sure there is detail on why they needed a black hole and could not use a sun.
@@grandmage1925 It is stated in the Impossible Planet that there is something like a gravity funnel coming from the planet. That's how everyone got there in the first place.
The point of the prison is escape or live. It's as simple as smashing 2 vases because if the Beast manages to do so, the planet falls into the black hole and consumes him. Don't tell me it's that hard to realise - the Doctor even says the stuff that I'm saying now.
@@LordofFullmetal I agree I’ve watched a few of his videos now and while I like them he does seem to not be able to grasp a lot of very simple plot points and character motivations, but yet he complains about small details added for flavour
Also, I don't mind The Beast's stereotypical appearance because The Doctor talks about how that specific image of a horned devil has appeared across countless civilisations throughout all of history and that image must've originated from somewhere. On the other hand I do think they could've been more creative with the design since The Doctor also talks about how the devil is just an idea and essentially we make him real, it would've been cool if The Beast's appearance was different depending on who's looking at him e.g. Humans would see a more human interpretation (horned devil) whereas when The Doctor confronts The Beast in The Pit he sees a more Timelord interpretation of the devil (whatever that would look like).
mattiesensei666 There was some concept art which made The Beast appear somewhat Lovecraftian, looked awesome and I wish they used it. Even as a kid, I was alittle dissapointed by its design as I imagined it being much more terrifying.
I think the idea of making the devil a very cliche horned monster actually makes a lot of sense because the doctor doesn't believe it exists, so the scene when he is confronted face to face with the beast from the bible is really powerful and has an effect of making the doctor question his beliefs
That reminds me of that line in The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword where Fi (an expositional ethereal sword-robot) says that the Demon King looks different to everyone who sees him.
I’m late but it genuinely seems like they didn’t have the budget for a 4th bench, given the framing of the first shot. I honestly think they just moved the bench
Talk about late to the party, but: I feel like your interpretation of the physical form of the Devil is a little narrow minded. The body was never meant to be the terrifying part of the creature. It was always meant to be it's intelligence that was terrifying. The ability to see into your "soul" and know your deepest darkest fears and regrets. The ability to literally annihilate a person's free will, to posses a person completely and utterly. THAT was meant to be the payoff. Even in the episode, The Doctor realizes that the physical form means little to nothing as it is just a form. It's the intelligence escaping that is the real threat. Also, I feel you missed the part where the Doctor discusses the fact that all across the galaxy the general form of the Devil across all cultures and species was fairly uniform. And it WAS because the creature, the "devil" was able to affect the whole of life in such a minute but profound way that it's very existence in the galaxy tainted all of sentience in some regard. THAT is the pay off to the creature being a "mundane" form. Not that it looks normal for a devil, but WHY we consider it to look normal for a devil. Also the prison wasn't easy to escape. At all. The Doctor again expressly states that to escape the planet you would need to destroy the vases, which in turn would destabilize it and throw it into the black hole. The Vases being so simple in their design and so easily destroyed was part of the design. It was specifically designed to be easy to destroy in case some one came along and needed to kill the devil
It's literally a prisoner given a deadman's switch that will unlock his cell, but by doing so he'd explode and die. Literally the wish to live is what is keeping him imprisoned.
The Time Lords did invent black holes, though. Omega created them to allow time travel, but Rassilon double crossed him and trapped him on the other side of the original one, which is why he was imprisoned there in The Three Doctors.
I think the Beast commenting on the crew is meant to be open to interpretation, like we can fill in their blanks however we choose, and using some other clues throughout the episode. Jefferson- Got drunk and beat his wife, which explains why he doesn't often drink and would be ashamed of himself and haunted by the memory of her. Zach- Probably was put into command of the mission despite not feeling at all ready for it. Ida- May have stolen something from her father and is too ashamed/afraid to see him again. Danny- Might have wanted to leave home and lied about his skills or capabilities to do so. Toby- Was always putting work before others and never had any real kind of love.
This can be done. To inspire fear in someone you do not like you take something you know about them, take it to a logical possible conclusion that they do not like, and throw it back at them. Pretend you know more about them than you really know and they will wet their pants.
Sure I like that except ida. I think it's kinda obvious her dad abused her in some way. I dint think it's as innocent as she took summut and she dont want him to know
It's just words to pick at insecurities and fear. It's not really meant to have much more meaning than that. So the attempt to find meaning in the seven deadly sins (as Harry did) is pointless. Demoralisation is a major part of war. And the Devil is waging war on the universe.
I personally think the very vague character building phrases work in the episode's favour. It gives the impression that these people are far more complex than we know and there is so much about them that we will never discover.
Satans pit was actually the very first doctor who episode I watched and it is what got me hooked on it with all of the philosophy and science (the show was completely different to what I had imagined it to be about when I watched it)
Holy crap you guys too?! Yes these were the first two episodes I got to see when me and my dad randomly found them on demand. What a way to start a show! Seeing so much from both the old and the new series this is still one of my favorite two parters!
About the Ood, they were original as you'd see a live-to-serve race, but that had "Unfortunate Implications" attached to it (i.e, the Doctor being okay with this, even if it's of their free will), so it was later shown in a different episode that they were all basically given a lobotomy and that's why they serve.
17:10 "his species created black holes" is a reference to the 10th anniversary episode 'The three Doctors", where, with the help of Hartnell's Doctor advising them, Troughton's Doctor and Pertwee's Doctor venture into a black hole which the Timelords created as a prison for Omega who is now threatening to destroy them with his power's but can't escape physically. The Timelords had set up that blackhole as a prison for Omega (or atleast that's what Gallifrey law tells us) so yeah, the Timelords did create blackholes.
Black holes are not a lack of matter, it's literally the opposite. The massive amount of matter is the reason why they're a black hole in the first place as it is enough to warp light and time. There isn't another side either. Saying a black hole has an 'other side' would be like saying a planet has an an other side. There is no other side because it's just a solid lump of matter.
A black hole is matter that is physics-breakingly dense. The black sphere is not the object, it is the point at which light cannot escape the object. And yeah, you may be thinking of wormholes, which have another end.
yes, but in the same sense that a planet has one. a black hole is nowhere near hollow. (although since you would die long before reaching any solid matter if you were approach one, you would experience it sort of like entering something rather than falling on to something.)
10/10 in my opinion. Everything from the cast, the story, the production were top notch. The guest characters were some of the most compelling characters in the show.
I love how when the pitt opens we see the Doctor briefly look back and forth, deciding whether to go back for Rose or see what's hidden in the pitt. I love it because it's a small detail but it's that theme of temptation again.
I think the idea of the simplicity of the vase was the idea of the disciples rubbing salt in the wound. Like if you had a prisoner who didn’t have handcuffs in a cell with no bars, but the moment you step out of the cell you get shot to death. Yeah escape is super easy but if you do escape you’ll then die.
***** Well, we see them in Planet ofc, and then the one scene in the End of Time. I GUESS it counts as three if you want to count the Ood Sigma cameo at the end; even four if you consider that one appearance in Waters of Mars. But their role in End of Time, while important, is pretty small. Maybe you're thinking of the one in "The Doctor's Wife?"
***** Mostly, yeah, they've had some cameos in episodes like Face the Raven, but there was a major Ood in Series 6's "The Doctor's Wife," possibly the best Eleventh Doctor episode IMO.
I've always loved this episode and the whole Tenant era, so much of it was horror focused and I feel it reached its peak with this, which sucks cause something like this wouldve been the end game but was literally another episode in Doctor Who. They literally encounted evil incarnate bound in the furthest reaches of space near a black hole, I'm not too sure how they could ever top in terms of cosmic horror. Kinda wish Doctor who was more out there with stuff like this.
i find it interesting that the Ood as presented in the rest of Doctor Who appear heavily based on DND's Illithids/Mind Flayers (or squidface-brainsuckers if you prefer), complete with an Elder Brain type entity, being able to turn people into squidfaces and even the image of them holding their own brains appears to have been based on Illithids eating brains, yet in this episode they appear closer to a different squidface monster (although much, MUCH more loosely), Cthulhu, specifically it's more to do with the devil and how he's presented as an ancient, cosmic, elder evil chained in an impossible location at the edge of all known, seems almost like lovecraftian cosmic horror (almost but not quite, a bit to blatant and heavy handed), and how this cosmic evil works through the squidface monsters that we (at this point) know little to nothing about, makes the squidfaces the face of the evil for much of the episode, so, a tenuous connection at worst, and a convoluted but very intentional reference at best. side note, interestingly Illithids are NOT based on Cthulhu, but are instead based on the image of a human skull with roots growing from beneath it, the more you know.
It was sad and beautiful the way Scooty's hair flowed, like it was under water, at her death. The way the writing appeared on Toby's hands feels like an implication. That reading, or entertaining any sin contaminates the soul, opening ones heart to the devil himself, letting him in.
Fun fact! The Beast in Satan Pit is played by Gabriel Wolf, and in one of the best stories in classic who, Pyramids Of Mars, the same man plays Sutek. Which makes sense given his amazing voice. But whilst this is my favourite episode of NuWho, Pyramids Of Mars is way better.
OH dang yeah! Didn't the 4th Doctor talk about sutekth being known as a bunch of civilizations version of the devil? Come to think of it the stories are rather similar as well! It would have been a nice Easter egg for the beast to mention the name Sutekth amongst his many titles.
Cian McCabe well yes im aware he is an osiran and nit actually the devil, but the doctor does note that some civilizations have named sutekh as the devil.
I remember as a kid my parents flicking through the tv and seeing the set design of the ship. I was enough for me to be curious and want to know what was on tv. After I saw the Ood in the intro I was hooked on the show. I wish modern day Doctor who would have more moments like this. Maybe then I would start watching again.
Back when I first got into the new who back in mid 2010s I used this two-parter to get so many people to start watching the show. it is perfectly encapsulated in the way it depicts the way doctor who tells Stories, the way the characters interact, the meaning behind everything; I really struggle to find any problems even after you've pointed them out. Truly my favorite 2 episodes in the series
7:11 OMG BEST PART BY FAR! The music was perfect! I love the unnatural way he was standing out there and the way he reaches out to her like the actual devil tempting her to do something. Music and his face sold that scene.
I certainly like the way the cello's used. It'sthe instrument I play and seems very underused when it comes to film/TV melodies. Could be just me though.
Fantastic analysis as always. Probably my favourite ever two-parter. Because both parts are actually decent for once unlike most two parters especially those FUCKING AWFUL MOFFAT TWO PARTERS WHICH SET UP SOMETHING REALLY COOL THEN ITS GETS RUINED IN THE SECOND PART.
these 2 episodes are absolutely BRILLIANT. the supportive cast are one of if not the best I have ever seen in just one story. If I had one complain about it, it's the 2 characters who died and didn't get an hommage, a shame considering anyone else (even all the oods) got one.
These episodes were so cool. I love how the doctor just lays it out that this black hole isn't some magical portal, it's just a black hole, a pit of death.
there are a lot of similarities between the pit and the black hole. A gaping black void looming over the base, you can't see what happens to things that fall in and which centres are completely unknowable unless you go into it. Oh, there's also the fact that they both contain a really bizarre timey wimey thing that were made by time lords.
I like this episode too. One of my favourites. The musical score is tense and at times terrifying. The theme is very interesting. It's a good one. I ca think of so many good episodes. The Judson, 42, night terrors, and so many more.
The whole point of them being so cryptic when they were trying to scare them was (in my opinion) on complete purpose. We have no idea what they did. And we probably never will. But that’s the thing. We don’t know what they meant but the people they were trying to fuck with understood what they meant fully. So they were truly scared while we just sat there seeing them realize that what they just said and becoming terrified.
Harry's Moving Castle, I was wondering what you thought about The Satan Pit, and Tooth and Claw having the same music at one point. Do you think there's some sort of symbolism there about werewolves being connected to the devil or something?
The beast dosn't say he's from before life, but "before time, before the cataclysm", hence before the big bang. That's why the Doctor thinks this is impossible. Not just because he hasn't travelled to the beginning of the universe (since actually he has [Castrovalva; Terminus]), but because it's from even before, and I suppose the Doctor couldn't go explore what there is before the beginning of the universe even if he wanted to.
Before time is an interesting phrase, sort of like saying North of the North Pole. It is impossible, but implies something great and sinister. The fact that he calls the creation of the universe as we know it "the cataclysm" is very telling as to his nature.
This is honestly my favourite Who episode/s ever (along with the Girl in the Fireplace). So scary for younger viewers, the Ood are terrifying and visually gorgeous (lovecraftian almost). Characters I cared for when they died (Well at least Jefferson anyway) 10/10 from me
To some people, hell is a terrifying inferno of endless pain and punishment. But I believe the concept of nothing, an empty and endless void, is scarier than any punishment or fiery hell could ever be. Kinda like how they explored the idea in the season finale when they discussed the void between parallel universes. I also think that's what death is perhaps. The end of mind and thought. I'd have liked it if there wasn't actually a creature inside the pit. If all The Doctor found were empty chains, and the markings on the wall. Not to say that something had escaped, but that The Beast had no body. No form. That The Beast isn't something that consists of matter or energy like everything else in creation. He'd only found the story of how The Beast was imprisoned, and how that had somehow chained the concept of the beast to this planet. I'd like to think that's how The Beast was older than the universe and from before time. Because The Beast is just an idea. Maybe having a literal colossal beast chained to the centre of the planet was meant to invoke Dante's Inferno, a common depiction of Satan. But to me, The Beast should just be an idea. That has no body or physical existence, but something that still, somehow, exerts some eternal, terrible power over every single being in existence. That's scarier to me than a horned creature chained to a wall.
I might be in the minority here and you never brought it up, but my favorite moment of this whole 2-parter is the before the Doctor drops and is talking to Ida about Rose - "Tell her... tell her... aw she knows." *drops* Shit is epic.
10:08 Another little detail I like has to do with the lights in the suits projecting what looks like a skull on their faces. Giving the idea of "death"
I like how he starts off with, the aliens being all crazy looking and nothing else like it. Bruh, mindflayers or the start of it all Cthulhu. That's the original forms of these things
I feel like the Devil in this episode would've been far more effective and scary if we never saw its physical form If it was simply a supernatural force that speaks through the Ood & Toby and manipulates events, kinda like the unseen force in Evil Dead
Everyone passes through the door that is death alone. It is a one way one person portal. You can only pass through it at death and there is no coming back through to tell about it. Even in a room full of dying people you still die alone. Death is but a moment that lasts forever.
Idk why but I think a cool image of the beast/devil could be a child chained up to the wall? So it would be really shocking and difficult to fight against.
I love this episode, the only thing that bugs me about it is that that's not how black holes work. They're basically just super super dense stars, you can orbit them and they're definitely not big intergalactic vacuum cleaners
No black holes are dead stars that have imploded. They do swallow matter energy like a drain in a pool. They also belch gamma bursts from time to time.
The time lords didn’t bring black holes into existence but made black holes in omegas experiments using black holes to invent time travel, so thats bit of law behind it.
I think the vagueness of the lines the beast says to each of the people to fuck with them is a good thing. Not everything must be spelt out, and I feel if they explained it, it could lose the sense of threat. These are probably secrets that they would NEVER willingly tell another person, secrets so deep they don't even count them as part of their personalities. The beast gives says just enough to each of them that they KNOW he knows exactly what they did, and they become terrified- not just that he can find out, but that he'll tell the others. Let's face it, each of these people are on a remote expedition far away from civilisation, they are probably running from something.
15:20-15:25 "An air pocket cushioning the fall doesn't quite mean much to me, or if such a thing is possible." The "air pocket cushioned the fall" thing actually does make sense. You know how, if you drop a bowling ball and a feather side by side in a vacuum chamber, they travel at the same speed? But obviously, if you drop the same two items in air, the feather has a much lower weight to volume ratio, and so, it falls MUCH slower. Applying the same principle to a human body: If you go skydiving in the air, and spread your arms/legs wide to catch the air, the average person's maximum speed while falling through the air is about 160ish mph (or about 210ish mph, if you dive, trying to go as fast as possible). That's called "free fall". In a vacuum with a total lack of anything to slow you down, as long as gravity keeps pulling you in the same direction and you don't hit anything to slow you, you never stop accelerating toward the gravity's source. There is no free fall speed cap. One more thing of note: If you jump from a decent height and belly flop onto a body of water, for a short time (just a fraction of a second) the sudden difference in density shift in the mediums (between the air you fell through and the water you impacted with) will cause you to lose a MASSIVE amount of energy. In the case of people belly flopping into water, nearly all of it, in fact. (I once saw a buddy demonstrate this while drunk, though unintentionally. He got a massive bruise that covered most of his stomach and some of his lower chest stopping just below the nipples, but... yeah. For like 1/10th of a second when he hit the water and broke the surface, he just bobbed there like a surf board, before sinking again like a water-logged piece of wood.) The faster you're going, the more energy is lost when you suddenly hit something, even if that something is not solid. All that said: The Doctor was guessing at whether or not he could survive falling the estimated 30 feet at Earth gravity with no air friction. It's suggested that he fell much further than 30ft, but the air friction slowed him enough that he survived the impact with the air cushion, and then again when impacting the ground below. A human (probably) would have survived with TONS of shattered bones, but a Time Lord is not only more durable, but they also have regenerative abilities (both active and passive) that could allow him to escape relatively unscathed compared to a human.
really good content. I've binged a few videos and assumed this was a channel with a few hundred thousand subscribers. Keep it up. Im sure you'll get some traction in sub growth
The link in the description leads to the same poll that you displayed in the video. Is there another poll to vote for the next episode that you will review? By the way, your videos are fantastic! I almost forgot how much I liked this two parter!
In hindsight the two-parter takes a lot of inspiration from Event Horizon, also with those mysterious background sins that they describe. But it is definitely better handled in terms of philosophy and exploring sci-fi ideas.
The vases were thought out though, the lumbering mountain of a demon could not escape without breaking them, hence the location and fragility as escaping would ensure he would fall into the black hole.
I'm not sure why, but I always interpreted Mr. Jefferson having done something to his son,(even though I don't think him having one is mentioned) like accidently shooting and killing him, and that's why his wife never forgave him
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This two parter is WAY underrated. It's one of my favorite stories. It's creepy, interesting, cool etc. One of his best episode/episodes
Seriously... this story was when I first thought to myself - "Wait... is this show actually amazing?"
I thought this was a fan favourite. Apparently not.
+1, this is one of my all-time favourites. Sure, the VFX of the black hole haven't aged well, since we have Interstellar with its mathematically accurate depiction, and the image generated by the EHT, but as for everything else I have always thought (and still do) that this episode is fantastic, it's certainly one you can revisit to this day and still thoroughly enjoy.
I didnt really like this episode
Very Underrated
The Doctor: That's impossible, no life could have existed back then.
The Beast: Is that YOUR religion?
I fucking love that line
mattiesensei666 you could make a religion out of this
@@willbayliss5697 no don't
The Time Lords inventing black holes has actually been a canonical fact since the classic series.
Being able to create and harness the energy from them... not invent them.
It still would've been nice to establish that within the two-parter or _at_ _least_ the season.
As far as I remember it went like this, the Time Lords needed a potent energy source to be used by their technology, among which the TARDIS. The problem was that the universe was still new and did not have any black holes, so Rassilon and Omega had to make one. I'm not even sure there is detail on why they needed a black hole and could not use a sun.
The doctor was able to fly around a black hole here, but in the latest cyberman episodes he couldnt...wtf
@@grandmage1925 It is stated in the Impossible Planet that there is something like a gravity funnel coming from the planet. That's how everyone got there in the first place.
The point of the prison is escape or live. It's as simple as smashing 2 vases because if the Beast manages to do so, the planet falls into the black hole and consumes him. Don't tell me it's that hard to realise - the Doctor even says the stuff that I'm saying now.
I HAVE noticed that this guy often seems to just misunderstand basic plot points that are explained in the episode.
He has a habit of focusing on details while missing huge story elements
It wasn't convenience like he thought, the vases are delicate making it easier for him to die if he tries to escape.
@@samtownend6744 He's gotten a lot better about it in recent years though. This is a pretty old video
@@LordofFullmetal I agree I’ve watched a few of his videos now and while I like them he does seem to not be able to grasp a lot of very simple plot points and character motivations, but yet he complains about small details added for flavour
Also, I don't mind The Beast's stereotypical appearance because The Doctor talks about how that specific image of a horned devil has appeared across countless civilisations throughout all of history and that image must've originated from somewhere. On the other hand I do think they could've been more creative with the design since The Doctor also talks about how the devil is just an idea and essentially we make him real, it would've been cool if The Beast's appearance was different depending on who's looking at him e.g. Humans would see a more human interpretation (horned devil) whereas when The Doctor confronts The Beast in The Pit he sees a more Timelord interpretation of the devil (whatever that would look like).
bad idea... that would end up with Dalek episode :-D A huge horned Dalek in the pit...
mattiesensei666 There was some concept art which made The Beast appear somewhat Lovecraftian, looked awesome and I wish they used it. Even as a kid, I was alittle dissapointed by its design as I imagined it being much more terrifying.
I think the idea of making the devil a very cliche horned monster actually makes a lot of sense because the doctor doesn't believe it exists, so the scene when he is confronted face to face with the beast from the bible is really powerful and has an effect of making the doctor question his beliefs
That reminds me of that line in The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword where Fi (an expositional ethereal sword-robot) says that the Demon King looks different to everyone who sees him.
Fresco no, the devil would look like... dun dun dun a morgage.
I never noticed the Ood bench thing until you pointed it out.
SinDawg030 same
I don’t mind it. It makes the framing of the image asymmetrical, which makes it seem “wrong”. It adds to the creepiness
Is it heresy?
I’m late but it genuinely seems like they didn’t have the budget for a 4th bench, given the framing of the first shot. I honestly think they just moved the bench
It's rather ood that you didn't see it.
Talk about late to the party, but:
I feel like your interpretation of the physical form of the Devil is a little narrow minded. The body was never meant to be the terrifying part of the creature. It was always meant to be it's intelligence that was terrifying. The ability to see into your "soul" and know your deepest darkest fears and regrets. The ability to literally annihilate a person's free will, to posses a person completely and utterly. THAT was meant to be the payoff. Even in the episode, The Doctor realizes that the physical form means little to nothing as it is just a form. It's the intelligence escaping that is the real threat.
Also, I feel you missed the part where the Doctor discusses the fact that all across the galaxy the general form of the Devil across all cultures and species was fairly uniform. And it WAS because the creature, the "devil" was able to affect the whole of life in such a minute but profound way that it's very existence in the galaxy tainted all of sentience in some regard. THAT is the pay off to the creature being a "mundane" form. Not that it looks normal for a devil, but WHY we consider it to look normal for a devil.
Also the prison wasn't easy to escape. At all. The Doctor again expressly states that to escape the planet you would need to destroy the vases, which in turn would destabilize it and throw it into the black hole. The Vases being so simple in their design and so easily destroyed was part of the design. It was specifically designed to be easy to destroy in case some one came along and needed to kill the devil
It's literally a prisoner given a deadman's switch that will unlock his cell, but by doing so he'd explode and die. Literally the wish to live is what is keeping him imprisoned.
Episodes like THIS are what I want in the 2018 series
Well I guess you aren't having fun with the new doctor
@@centralmammal1432 Nope, not at all. Series 11 sucked so badly.
*sighs in mediocrity*
@@heather173 I guess your still not having fun
@@Jameepicbadass I watched 3 episodes this season. I just...can't anymore. :(
The Time Lords did invent black holes, though. Omega created them to allow time travel, but Rassilon double crossed him and trapped him on the other side of the original one, which is why he was imprisoned there in The Three Doctors.
Literally who cares?
Literally people who want to correct this dude? Literally who cares about your opinion?
I think the Beast commenting on the crew is meant to be open to interpretation, like we can fill in their blanks however we choose, and using some other clues throughout the episode.
Jefferson- Got drunk and beat his wife, which explains why he doesn't often drink and would be ashamed of himself and haunted by the memory of her.
Zach- Probably was put into command of the mission despite not feeling at all ready for it.
Ida- May have stolen something from her father and is too ashamed/afraid to see him again.
Danny- Might have wanted to leave home and lied about his skills or capabilities to do so.
Toby- Was always putting work before others and never had any real kind of love.
This can be done. To inspire fear in someone you do not like you take something you know about them, take it to a logical possible conclusion that they do not like, and throw it back at them. Pretend you know more about them than you really know and they will wet their pants.
Sure I like that except ida. I think it's kinda obvious her dad abused her in some way. I dint think it's as innocent as she took summut and she dont want him to know
It's just words to pick at insecurities and fear. It's not really meant to have much more meaning than that. So the attempt to find meaning in the seven deadly sins (as Harry did) is pointless. Demoralisation is a major part of war. And the Devil is waging war on the universe.
Oooooooh that’s interesting. I never thought of it like that. Well spotted.
the only one youre wrong about is zach. when they landed the original captain died, zach was put in command because of that
otherwise its all good!
I personally think the very vague character building phrases work in the episode's favour. It gives the impression that these people are far more complex than we know and there is so much about them that we will never discover.
Gotta love how the space-suit helmet lights give the faces a skull aspect.
Satans pit was actually the very first doctor who episode I watched and it is what got me hooked on it with all of the philosophy and science (the show was completely different to what I had imagined it to be about when I watched it)
same
Holy crap you guys too?! Yes these were the first two episodes I got to see when me and my dad randomly found them on demand. What a way to start a show! Seeing so much from both the old and the new series this is still one of my favorite two parters!
110% the *same* exact experience, that's wild...
O wait nah it wasn't my first ep, but it's the ep that got me officially hooked.
About the Ood, they were original as you'd see a live-to-serve race, but that had "Unfortunate Implications" attached to it (i.e, the Doctor being okay with this, even if it's of their free will), so it was later shown in a different episode that they were all basically given a lobotomy and that's why they serve.
17:10 "his species created black holes" is a reference to the 10th anniversary episode 'The three Doctors", where, with the help of Hartnell's Doctor advising them, Troughton's Doctor and Pertwee's Doctor venture into a black hole which the Timelords created as a prison for Omega who is now threatening to destroy them with his power's but can't escape physically. The Timelords had set up that blackhole as a prison for Omega (or atleast that's what Gallifrey law tells us) so yeah, the Timelords did create blackholes.
Black holes are not a lack of matter, it's literally the opposite. The massive amount of matter is the reason why they're a black hole in the first place as it is enough to warp light and time.
There isn't another side either. Saying a black hole has an 'other side' would be like saying a planet has an an other side. There is no other side because it's just a solid lump of matter.
Hey man I'm no scientist, but thanks for correcting me on that
A black hole is matter that is physics-breakingly dense. The black sphere is not the object, it is the point at which light cannot escape the object. And yeah, you may be thinking of wormholes, which have another end.
Vector Hyena my thoughts too
Vector Hyena is there a inside?
yes, but in the same sense that a planet has one. a black hole is nowhere near hollow. (although since you would die long before reaching any solid matter if you were approach one, you would experience it sort of like entering something rather than falling on to something.)
This is in my top 3 Doctor Who stories
... Against what? :)
10/10 in my opinion. Everything from the cast, the story, the production were top notch. The guest characters were some of the most compelling characters in the show.
Rose telling the devil to go to hell is why she’s my favorite companion of all time
I love how when the pitt opens we see the Doctor briefly look back and forth, deciding whether to go back for Rose or see what's hidden in the pitt. I love it because it's a small detail but it's that theme of temptation again.
Scootys death is so violent I actually love it you could feel her sheer desperation trying to open the door such good acting in that small scene
Worst Deus Ex Machina in Doctor Who.. I wish that was true. Oh how I wish that was true.
I don't even know if this one cracks the top 10
Doctor, doctor, doctor. Doctor, doctor, doctor. 🤯
Its not worse than Doctor-Donna stopping the Reality Bomb at the very last second.
@Boring Name Which time?
@Adina Kruijssen if you're asking which episode he's talking about, it's Rings of Akhaten
IT'S A MEGA REVIEW - Should I do this more often for two-parters?
Harry's Moving Castle yeah, I think it makes it better
Harry's Moving Castle a two parter I would recommend Army of Ghosts/Doomsday review
Hola - What's next in the list peeps?
Steven Nodlehs
Black Mirror mate!
***** nice one - I still can't remember if I'd asked you if you'd seen "Threads" and if so did you fancy a re-visit?
I think the idea of the simplicity of the vase was the idea of the disciples rubbing salt in the wound. Like if you had a prisoner who didn’t have handcuffs in a cell with no bars, but the moment you step out of the cell you get shot to death. Yeah escape is super easy but if you do escape you’ll then die.
"Used again and again throughout the Davies era."
Wait, didn't they only have like 2 episodes after this?
Well three if you count both end of time episodes, but I swear we see them more than just Planet and End of time... could be wrong though
*****
Well, we see them in Planet ofc, and then the one scene in the End of Time. I GUESS it counts as three if you want to count the Ood Sigma cameo at the end; even four if you consider that one appearance in Waters of Mars. But their role in End of Time, while important, is pretty small.
Maybe you're thinking of the one in "The Doctor's Wife?"
Possibly, but I felt the ood are just part of the sets in the Moffat years, unless I'm mistaken?
*****
Mostly, yeah, they've had some cameos in episodes like Face the Raven, but there was a major Ood in Series 6's "The Doctor's Wife," possibly the best Eleventh Doctor episode IMO.
I've always loved this episode and the whole Tenant era, so much of it was horror focused and I feel it reached its peak with this, which sucks cause something like this wouldve been the end game but was literally another episode in Doctor Who. They literally encounted evil incarnate bound in the furthest reaches of space near a black hole, I'm not too sure how they could ever top in terms of cosmic horror. Kinda wish Doctor who was more out there with stuff like this.
Couldn't get the fucking bench right 1/10
J'ospeh 😂
One of the greatest Doctor Who stories, period. Such a shame it isn’t talked about more, it really is a landmark story in my opinion
i find it interesting that the Ood as presented in the rest of Doctor Who appear heavily based on DND's Illithids/Mind Flayers (or squidface-brainsuckers if you prefer), complete with an Elder Brain type entity, being able to turn people into squidfaces and even the image of them holding their own brains appears to have been based on Illithids eating brains, yet in this episode they appear closer to a different squidface monster (although much, MUCH more loosely), Cthulhu, specifically it's more to do with the devil and how he's presented as an ancient, cosmic, elder evil chained in an impossible location at the edge of all known, seems almost like lovecraftian cosmic horror (almost but not quite, a bit to blatant and heavy handed), and how this cosmic evil works through the squidface monsters that we (at this point) know little to nothing about, makes the squidfaces the face of the evil for much of the episode, so, a tenuous connection at worst, and a convoluted but very intentional reference at best.
side note, interestingly Illithids are NOT based on Cthulhu, but are instead based on the image of a human skull with roots growing from beneath it, the more you know.
It was sad and beautiful the way Scooty's hair flowed, like it was under water, at her death. The way the writing appeared on Toby's hands feels like an implication. That reading, or entertaining any sin contaminates the soul, opening ones heart to the devil himself, letting him in.
Fun fact! The Beast in Satan Pit is played by Gabriel Wolf, and in one of the best stories in classic who, Pyramids Of Mars, the same man plays Sutek. Which makes sense given his amazing voice. But whilst this is my favourite episode of NuWho, Pyramids Of Mars is way better.
Maybe it's the same character? Maybe the Beast is Sutekh?
OH dang yeah! Didn't the 4th Doctor talk about sutekth being known as a bunch of civilizations version of the devil? Come to think of it the stories are rather similar as well! It would have been a nice Easter egg for the beast to mention the name Sutekth amongst his many titles.
Cian McCabe well yes im aware he is an osiran and nit actually the devil, but the doctor does note that some civilizations have named sutekh as the devil.
This is one of the my favourite stories of Series 2 and the Satan Pit even more so. Awesome review.
I mustve seen this episode 30+ times. Itll always hold a special place in my heart.
I remember as a kid my parents flicking through the tv and seeing the set design of the ship. I was enough for me to be curious and want to know what was on tv. After I saw the Ood in the intro I was hooked on the show. I wish modern day Doctor who would have more moments like this. Maybe then I would start watching again.
The comment about the hug. Who wouldn't like being hugged by David Tennant!
Back when I first got into the new who back in mid 2010s I used this two-parter to get so many people to start watching the show. it is perfectly encapsulated in the way it depicts the way doctor who tells Stories, the way the characters interact, the meaning behind everything; I really struggle to find any problems even after you've pointed them out. Truly my favorite 2 episodes in the series
7:11 OMG BEST PART BY FAR! The music was perfect! I love the unnatural way he was standing out there and the way he reaches out to her like the actual devil tempting her to do something. Music and his face sold that scene.
I certainly like the way the cello's used. It'sthe instrument I play and seems very underused when it comes to film/TV melodies. Could be just me though.
Fantastic analysis as always. Probably my favourite ever two-parter. Because both parts are actually decent for once unlike most two parters especially those FUCKING AWFUL MOFFAT TWO PARTERS WHICH SET UP SOMETHING REALLY COOL THEN ITS GETS RUINED IN THE SECOND PART.
these 2 episodes are absolutely BRILLIANT. the supportive cast are one of if not the best I have ever seen in just one story. If I had one complain about it, it's the 2 characters who died and didn't get an hommage, a shame considering anyone else (even all the oods) got one.
maaaaan I'f you just made playlists of music I would happily listen to that. Your taste is so good.
The transition from drum and bass into golden brown had me giggling though for some reason
These episodes were so cool. I love how the doctor just lays it out that this black hole isn't some magical portal, it's just a black hole, a pit of death.
there are a lot of similarities between the pit and the black hole. A gaping black void looming over the base, you can't see what happens to things that fall in and which centres are completely unknowable unless you go into it. Oh, there's also the fact that they both contain a really bizarre timey wimey thing that were made by time lords.
I remember as a kid this was one of the few episodes I had recorded, I must have watched it like 50 times! :p
I love these episodes! Best from season 2 and possibly my favorites from all of new who
You can google the script for the episode to read the whole monologue
I like this episode too. One of my favourites. The musical score is tense and at times terrifying. The theme is very interesting. It's a good one. I ca think of so many good episodes. The Judson, 42, night terrors, and so many more.
The whole point of them being so cryptic when they were trying to scare them was (in my opinion) on complete purpose. We have no idea what they did. And we probably never will. But that’s the thing. We don’t know what they meant but the people they were trying to fuck with understood what they meant fully. So they were truly scared while we just sat there seeing them realize that what they just said and becoming terrified.
Harry's Moving Castle, I was wondering what you thought about The Satan Pit, and Tooth and Claw having the same music at one point. Do you think there's some sort of symbolism there about werewolves being connected to the devil or something?
The beast dosn't say he's from before life, but "before time, before the cataclysm", hence before the big bang. That's why the Doctor thinks this is impossible. Not just because he hasn't travelled to the beginning of the universe (since actually he has [Castrovalva; Terminus]), but because it's from even before, and I suppose the Doctor couldn't go explore what there is before the beginning of the universe even if he wanted to.
Before time is an interesting phrase, sort of like saying North of the North Pole. It is impossible, but implies something great and sinister. The fact that he calls the creation of the universe as we know it "the cataclysm" is very telling as to his nature.
This is honestly my favourite Who episode/s ever (along with the Girl in the Fireplace). So scary for younger viewers, the Ood are terrifying and visually gorgeous (lovecraftian almost). Characters I cared for when they died (Well at least Jefferson anyway) 10/10 from me
I think the beast would have been a great enemy in the Series 7 finale
To some people, hell is a terrifying inferno of endless pain and punishment. But I believe the concept of nothing, an empty and endless void, is scarier than any punishment or fiery hell could ever be. Kinda like how they explored the idea in the season finale when they discussed the void between parallel universes. I also think that's what death is perhaps. The end of mind and thought.
I'd have liked it if there wasn't actually a creature inside the pit. If all The Doctor found were empty chains, and the markings on the wall. Not to say that something had escaped, but that The Beast had no body. No form. That The Beast isn't something that consists of matter or energy like everything else in creation. He'd only found the story of how The Beast was imprisoned, and how that had somehow chained the concept of the beast to this planet. I'd like to think that's how The Beast was older than the universe and from before time. Because The Beast is just an idea.
Maybe having a literal colossal beast chained to the centre of the planet was meant to invoke Dante's Inferno, a common depiction of Satan. But to me, The Beast should just be an idea. That has no body or physical existence, but something that still, somehow, exerts some eternal, terrible power over every single being in existence. That's scarier to me than a horned creature chained to a wall.
I feel like that would have been more memorable
I might be in the minority here and you never brought it up, but my favorite moment of this whole 2-parter is the before the Doctor drops and is talking to Ida about Rose - "Tell her... tell her... aw she knows." *drops*
Shit is epic.
That scene is also one of my favourite moments of this story
10:08 Another little detail I like has to do with the lights in the suits projecting what looks like a skull on their faces. Giving the idea of "death"
This is the Dead Space episode of Doctor Who.
I like how he starts off with, the aliens being all crazy looking and nothing else like it. Bruh, mindflayers or the start of it all Cthulhu. That's the original forms of these things
Everyone talks about moffat's early episodes being the peak of terrifying in NuWho but for me this is the scariest doctor who story I've seen
This was my favorite episode as a kid, I haven't watched in like 6 years I don't know why I'm here
This is essentially Event Horizon for 7pm and I love it.
"The worst Deus Ex Machina in Doctor Who History"
Just you wait, they'll get a hell of a lot worse during Davies' run.
Do you mean Moffatt? This WAS the Davies Era.
The Smart-Casual Gamer no, he means the rest of the davies era.
I feel like the Devil in this episode would've been far more effective and scary if we never saw its physical form
If it was simply a supernatural force that speaks through the Ood & Toby and manipulates events, kinda like the unseen force in Evil Dead
Toby being “the virgin” reminds me of the cabin in the woods
I'm not gonna lie I kinda miss the old intro
Everyone passes through the door that is death alone. It is a one way one person portal. You can only pass through it at death and there is no coming back through to tell about it. Even in a room full of dying people you still die alone. Death is but a moment that lasts forever.
This is literally my all time favourite episode 😁
The atmosphere of this story is outstanding.
these were the episodes that made me truly accept Tennant as the best Doctor. It was the moment where it all clicked.
Idk why but I think a cool image of the beast/devil could be a child chained up to the wall? So it would be really shocking and difficult to fight against.
I think children are less scary when you chain them up.
*Number of the Beast plays loudly in the background*
I love this episode, the only thing that bugs me about it is that that's not how black holes work. They're basically just super super dense stars, you can orbit them and they're definitely not big intergalactic vacuum cleaners
No black holes are dead stars that have imploded. They do swallow matter energy like a drain in a pool. They also belch gamma bursts from time to time.
5:56 YOOOOOOO MY MAN STARTED PLAYING GOLDEN BROWN
You better not call The Ood bad guys again or you can expect a large plate of knuckle sandwiches.
You know the devil
Maybe he should of been like a chathulu mythos kinda devil
Yea "chathulu"...
Omg that music is that one track from Mario galaxy on the bee planet
The time lords didn’t bring black holes into existence but made black holes in omegas experiments using black holes to invent time travel, so thats bit of law behind it.
4:14 "out the other side, or even if there is another side" anyone well versed enough in physics will join me in a well earned facepalm
Oh god what was I thinking with this comment? r/iamverysmart much
@@mrflibble1259 at least you are self aware about it.
@@DavidsonDave yeah I'm not gonna delete the original comment though. Thought I'd leave it as a warning to myself and others 😂
A black hole is just a super dense mass of matter generating massive amounts of gravity bending space, light, and time
It's the slow pace of this episode that makes it so great.
The best Dr who who episode ever
Are you serious? This is one of the best Dr. WHO episodes ever. I simply love these horror based episodes that make your back chill.
I think the vagueness of the lines the beast says to each of the people to fuck with them is a good thing. Not everything must be spelt out, and I feel if they explained it, it could lose the sense of threat.
These are probably secrets that they would NEVER willingly tell another person, secrets so deep they don't even count them as part of their personalities.
The beast gives says just enough to each of them that they KNOW he knows exactly what they did, and they become terrified- not just that he can find out, but that he'll tell the others.
Let's face it, each of these people are on a remote expedition far away from civilisation, they are probably running from something.
'The Ood bench shit' made me laugh much more than it probably should have.
15:20-15:25
"An air pocket cushioning the fall doesn't quite mean much to me, or if such a thing is possible."
The "air pocket cushioned the fall" thing actually does make sense.
You know how, if you drop a bowling ball and a feather side by side in a vacuum chamber, they travel at the same speed?
But obviously, if you drop the same two items in air, the feather has a much lower weight to volume ratio, and so, it falls MUCH slower.
Applying the same principle to a human body:
If you go skydiving in the air, and spread your arms/legs wide to catch the air, the average person's maximum speed while falling through the air is about 160ish mph (or about 210ish mph, if you dive, trying to go as fast as possible).
That's called "free fall".
In a vacuum with a total lack of anything to slow you down, as long as gravity keeps pulling you in the same direction and you don't hit anything to slow you, you never stop accelerating toward the gravity's source.
There is no free fall speed cap.
One more thing of note:
If you jump from a decent height and belly flop onto a body of water, for a short time (just a fraction of a second) the sudden difference in density shift in the mediums (between the air you fell through and the water you impacted with) will cause you to lose a MASSIVE amount of energy.
In the case of people belly flopping into water, nearly all of it, in fact. (I once saw a buddy demonstrate this while drunk, though unintentionally. He got a massive bruise that covered most of his stomach and some of his lower chest stopping just below the nipples, but... yeah. For like 1/10th of a second when he hit the water and broke the surface, he just bobbed there like a surf board, before sinking again like a water-logged piece of wood.)
The faster you're going, the more energy is lost when you suddenly hit something, even if that something is not solid.
All that said:
The Doctor was guessing at whether or not he could survive falling the estimated 30 feet at Earth gravity with no air friction.
It's suggested that he fell much further than 30ft, but the air friction slowed him enough that he survived the impact with the air cushion, and then again when impacting the ground below.
A human (probably) would have survived with TONS of shattered bones, but a Time Lord is not only more durable, but they also have regenerative abilities (both active and passive) that could allow him to escape relatively unscathed compared to a human.
That first picture of the doc and rose and that slow zoom, I see what you did there
What I noticed about the ending of the 1st ep, was how skull like the doc & lady's masks were.
Where the lights are in the space suit masks highlight their faces making them appear skeletal.
Loving the honeyhive galaxy theme at the start
This is actually one of my favorite episodes great review
really good content. I've binged a few videos and assumed this was a channel with a few hundred thousand subscribers. Keep it up. Im sure you'll get some traction in sub growth
Impossible Planet scared me so much as a kid I had to skip Satan's Pit the following week.
I think the beast cgi was rather impressive compared to the sometimes horrible cgi earlier in this season and the previous one
A gravity funnel in the context of a black hole would be one of reduced local gravity, because at that distance local ravity would be unavoidable.
The music in this is the best
The link in the description leads to the same poll that you displayed in the video. Is there another poll to vote for the next episode that you will review? By the way, your videos are fantastic! I almost forgot how much I liked this two parter!
In hindsight the two-parter takes a lot of inspiration from Event Horizon, also with those mysterious background sins that they describe. But it is definitely better handled in terms of philosophy and exploring sci-fi ideas.
should have learned by now I can’t drink anything while watching these,, so many times I’ve inhaled my tea,,
A black hole is by no means the "lack of an object". We just can never know what it looks like unless somebody figures out a way to calculate it.
The vases were thought out though, the lumbering mountain of a demon could not escape without breaking them, hence the location and fragility as escaping would ensure he would fall into the black hole.
I'm not sure why, but I always interpreted Mr. Jefferson having done something to his son,(even though I don't think him having one is mentioned) like accidently shooting and killing him, and that's why his wife never forgave him
The script of this video sounds like all my book studies in senior year English