Happy with mine tiny, low recoil, takes my glocks mags and ammo. I'm new to shooting and it does a softball grouping at 25 yards fast with a cheap sig romeo
My 9mm CMMG Banshee with a 5" barrell has had malfunction after malfunction with the PMAG conversion kit using subsonic rounds and a suppressor. Sometimes it will double feed, sometimes it won't even strip a round from the mag at all. Super frustrating. I'm going to try the weight kit and upgrade the extractor spring with a BCM kit and hope that helps
For those buyers that can tear themselves away from the notion of using a 9mm pistol magazine (like a Glock magazine) in their CMMG PCC, CMMG offers an interesting variation on the 9mm Banshee 300 pistols or SBR rifles. If you purchase one of these in what they call their 9mm Conversion models (part #’s 94A179C or 94A17AB), the lower receiver comes with a normal AR-15 magazine well meant to take standard STANAG magazines. And CMMG sells a compatible 9mm 20rd double-stack STANAG mag (part # 94AFC43). Or you can convert existing 5.56/300BLK STANAG mags to 9mm with CMMG’s magazine adapter insert (part # 94AFF83). This solves the dreaded problem of failure to keep the bolt open after the last shot. Another advantage of the 9mm Conversion complete rifle models is that the lower receivers are compatible with the following CMMG upper receivers and proper matching magazines: 1. 300 Blackout Upper Receiver (part # 30B81E9) and standard STANAG mags. 2. 5.7 x 28mm Upper Receiver (part # 57B18AF) and CMMG’s 5.7 x 28mm AR Conversion 40rd Magazine (part # 54AFCD2). 3. 22LR Upper Receiver (part # 22B5B60) and CMMG’s 22LR AR Conversion 25rd Magazine (part # 22AFC25). So, there is no reason to buy 4 complete rifles. Just buy one complete rifle plus three different uppers and save a lot of money. Then just switch the uppers and magazines as appropriate. Most people won’t buy all three of the extra uppers, of course, but you get the idea. If you don’t believe me, see the tables at the bottom of this CMMG webpage: cmmginc.com/product-category/banshee/banshee-300-series/?orderby=popularity
For anyone that can't have recoil - the Banshee is the way to go @ $1400 (ish) or you could also spend north of $3200 for the H&K SP5 for the best recoilless system on the market. The direct blow back offerings like the colt in this vid are all similar. I shot the Ruger PC9 and could not believe how much recoil shock there was.
Very good looking 'pistol'! I'm excited that all their PCCs are incorporating this operating system! now they offer the old-school Colt/Uzi-mag version with radially delayed blowback!💪😁💣
Great video! Flat recoil spring? Which did you use? What length? I have the Banshee 300 Mk4 lower, with the Micro/CQB brace and buffer extension tube and it has the round “piano” wire style. I ordered a flat spring, but it is designed for the Mil-Spec M4 buffer extension tube. It may work... it may not... still waiting on my upper. Thank you sir.
One detail I quite like about the 9mm Banshee that I didn't notice until I got one is that the caliber marking isn't 9mm Luger, 9mm Pata, or 9x19mm, but instead it's 9mm NATO, which means it is expressly rated for hotter 9mm loads. And thanks for testing 147 grain suppressed. I'd seen other people claim that 147 grain flat nose loads keyhole and cause baffle strikes in the Banshee. I'm glad to see you had no such issues.
Very informative videos - the designs behind the bangs! Can you pls do a comparison of the Banshee 45 vs HK UMP? I saw your take on the MPX vs MP5, and it made me go with the unpopular choice. Keep doing what you're doing!
@@SmallArmsSolutions Hi Chris. I have a USC, with stock conversion only and still firing single stacks. I just bought a Banshee 45 off the rack that I'm waiting to receive. I live in PA and come regularly to AR, so could meet you half way in Texarkana with both guns. ;) Or you're welcome to fly into Philly for some PA hospitality.
If I install a Sylvan Arm folding stock adapter or the Law adapter on the 8" banshee, would there be any problem with the added weight to the bolt carrier from the adapter extension?
Just did the range footage with the P320 mag version. Yes, locks back 100%. Only drawback is that it will not take the ETS mags, won’t catch on the mag catch
Its 2 or 3 down the list but I am planning a Colt SMG build. Except I want to utilize CMMGs radial delayed system. Fortunately they sell the barrel and BCG together. Then I'll send the barrel off to John Thomas to be cut down and reprofiled. I did contact CMMG about the profile/taper on their 9mm 16" barrel. It has plenty of "meat" on it to reprofile her into a pencil weight. Im not sure what the barrel length would end up being as the Colt 9mm barrels extend deeper into the upper. My only real concern is will I have feeding issues using the Colt SMG magazines? Maybe the feed ramp will need to be widened. I'm pretty sure Colt SMG mags are double feed right?
I tried the same thing and I can tell you definitively that the CMMG radial delay bolt and barrel will NOT work with Colt pattern magazines. 1st that the CMMG bolt uses a AR15 style plunger ejector, so the fixed ejector of the Colt SMG pattern has to be removed (not a big deal). 2nd the feed ramp does not have enough clearance between it and the bolt carrier preventing the upper and lower from closing. By the time its filed down to allow the receiver halves to close, there isn't much left of it. 3rd and the nail in the coffin is that the Colt mags sit too high inside the receiver, and prevent the bolt from passing over it. The bolt literally slams into the back of the magazine housing. Learn from my mistake, just get the Glock mag lower or what I did, was the 9mm converted PMAGS.
I saw all the videos on youtube about this pistol and all the good reviews that u guys wrote but guess what “YES” I bought my Banshee 9mm yesterday and I went to the range today. Every 3 or 4 rounds I had a failure to shoot. I used Blazer 115 grains bullet. Any idea of What is happening?
Love your video,,, keep up the good work. Also I built my AR 9mm, for a home protection, and mostly to have fun at the rang. I have a question????? What is the best barrel length for Home protection?
9mm uses fairly fast burning powder for short (4-6") barrel handguns. You will get more velocity out of an 8" but you will get diminishing returns on a 9mm with longer barrels. I have been looking into a 9mm build myself and I am thinking of going with an 8" barrel. There is a big difference between a 4" barrel and an 8" barrel. There is a smaller difference between an 8" barrel and an 11.5" or 12" barrel. I am thinking 8" is what I want. I don't think the extra length is worth the extra velocity once you get over 8". You can look up 9mm velocities out of different length barrels and decide where you want that barrel length vs. velocity balance. www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html Hope that helps. Note how much velocity increases from 4" to 6" to 8" then look at the smaller increases as barrel length increases.
Thanks for putting out such great informative videos. I purchased the 8” 9mm Banshee about a year ago and have had my bolt replaced recently (free under warranty) because of feeding and extracting issues. The tuning kit did not help. So far, my Banshee runs great with 115gr ammo with the new bolt. Also, it runs great with 17 or 33 round mags, but double-feeds with 24 round mags. I suspect the higher spring pressure in the 24 round mag feeds too quickly. My Banshee also doesn’t like 124gr NATO ammo. Instead of trying different tuning weights, will changing buffers work? Just curious, since it would be easier and quicker at the range. Thanks.
Shawna Lange no sir. This ammunition is used for testing firearms for the channel. SAS does not sell firearms or accessories. We are a consulting and education firm.
One thing this lock system makes me curious about is how durable is it. Since it deals with a lot of friction, what is the expected life? 10, 30, 50.000 rounds?
Great firearm, I just hate the way the metal mag release has accelerated wear on the polymer Glock mags. Mags eventually stop locking in, rather quickly. I also wish it didn’t have a forward assist.
Technically speaking the Banshee does not fall 100% under the "delayed" category. Its rather uses an accelerated bolt. The pressure between the bullet and the cartridge case pushes back in the bolt face. The bolt face is pushed against the trunnions locking lugs and because the corresponding locking lugs of the bots are at an angle the bolt is rotating. This rotation is transmitted to the bolt carrier via the camming surface. This transmission accelerates the bolt carrier, meaning for every distance the bolt head is traveling backwards the bolt carrier is forced to travel a lager distance back ward, this system is taking away a lot of force. In a "delayed" system there wouldn't be any movement, untill the breech is set free. Source: Sub-Machine Gun, The Development of Sub-Machine Guns and their Ammunition by Maxim Popenker & Anthony G. Williams Page: 28
@@cutzykadsemk.2207 "In a "delayed" system there wouldn't be any movement, untill the breech is set free" - but in the P7 the breech is "free", it opens slightly before the gas pressure drops. The gas pressure simply slows the slide down.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD The sources I read are saying, that the gas in the cylinder prevents the slide from doing any movement, until the gas pressure in the barrel drops. "Arbeiten zu Studium und Praxis im Bundesgrenzschutz: Waffenlehre - Grundlage der Systemlehre by Wolfgang Pietzner" Page 48. Quote: "Der Verschluss wird dadurch in seiner Rückwärtsbewegung verzögert; gegenteiliges Prinzip wie beim Gasdrucklader. Sinkt der Gasdruck ab, so öffnet sich der Verschluss[...]. "The Slide (lit. Bolt) is therefor delayed in its backwards movement; in opposite to a gas operated system. Is the gas pressure falling, the slide (lit. bolt) is opening its self."
@@cutzykadsemk.2207 But then in that case the chamber fluting wouldn't be necessary because they're not necessary in locked breech pistols. The fact that the chamber is fluted is evidence of the fact that the case will attempt to extract on firing. Also, you can just do the math. Assuming equal pressure inside the bore and the gas cylinder, the case head has a larger area than the gas cylinder so there will be a greater force pushing the slide open than forcing it closed. Also, if the gas system did force the system closed, the pistol would probably short stroke a lot due to most of the blowback impulse being arrested and the slide only picking up speed with very low bore pressure.
Ummm....what did you expect? PSA AR9 prices? How much are you going to pay for an MP5 clone, let alone an original? Admittedly, I stepped up and bought one in burnt bronze just as covid was taking hold so I got a decent price. Much like with Chris, mine has run 100%. I like it so much, my search for a 9mm long gun has ended. I’ve already sold my Scorpions, will soon sell the AR9, Beretta Storm, and B&T GHM9. Only other one I’m keeping is Ruger PCC as they both use Glock mags, and it was dirt cheap!
Am I the only the one that really does not care if the weapon locks back on the last round, especially on shoulder weapons? I grew up shooting Heckler & Koch M91/93s so maybe I am just acclimated to not care?
The radial delayed blowback system seems great, though it remains to be seen how they hold up long term. Probably best in 9mm as there's less stress on parts, while 9mm Glocks run better than .45 ACP and 10mm Glocks. Not sure there is much need for a PCC as a pistol and rifle are all that one needs IMO, except perhaps for covert use as part of a hunter-killer team like the special forces soldiers in the Vietnam War era Phoenix Program where you want a compact suppressed long arm.
I dont have any experience with the 9mm but my .45 MkG has been great for a over a year.
I've had mine for two weeks i love it, its my edc bag gun when I driving through the war zone called Detroit heading to work.
Milton Oliver same here, except my flavor is in 7,62x39. Want this one too, looks like a great gun.
I've got the version with the 8" barrel on order since July; can't wait to try it out.
I've had my .45 banshee since mid February. And I have to say I really enjoy it. It is my go to truck gun and home defense
Happy with mine tiny, low recoil, takes my glocks mags and ammo. I'm new to shooting and it does a softball grouping at 25 yards fast with a cheap sig romeo
I have this in burnt bronze. My favorite PDW/PCC for sure.
We threw an echo trigger in my buddy's and it was lots of fun
My 9mm CMMG Banshee with a 5" barrell has had malfunction after malfunction with the PMAG conversion kit using subsonic rounds and a suppressor. Sometimes it will double feed, sometimes it won't even strip a round from the mag at all. Super frustrating. I'm going to try the weight kit and upgrade the extractor spring with a BCM kit and hope that helps
For those buyers that can tear themselves away from the notion of using a 9mm pistol magazine (like a Glock magazine) in their CMMG PCC, CMMG offers an interesting variation on the 9mm Banshee 300 pistols or SBR rifles. If you purchase one of these in what they call their 9mm Conversion models (part #’s 94A179C or 94A17AB), the lower receiver comes with a normal AR-15 magazine well meant to take standard STANAG magazines. And CMMG sells a compatible 9mm 20rd double-stack STANAG mag (part # 94AFC43). Or you can convert existing 5.56/300BLK STANAG mags to 9mm with CMMG’s magazine adapter insert (part # 94AFF83). This solves the dreaded problem of failure to keep the bolt open after the last shot.
Another advantage of the 9mm Conversion complete rifle models is that the lower receivers are compatible with the following CMMG upper receivers and proper matching magazines:
1. 300 Blackout Upper Receiver (part # 30B81E9) and standard STANAG mags.
2. 5.7 x 28mm Upper Receiver (part # 57B18AF) and CMMG’s 5.7 x 28mm AR Conversion 40rd Magazine (part # 54AFCD2).
3. 22LR Upper Receiver (part # 22B5B60) and CMMG’s 22LR AR Conversion 25rd Magazine (part # 22AFC25).
So, there is no reason to buy 4 complete rifles. Just buy one complete rifle plus three different uppers and save a lot of money. Then just switch the uppers and magazines as appropriate. Most people won’t buy all three of the extra uppers, of course, but you get the idea. If you don’t believe me, see the tables at the bottom of this CMMG webpage:
cmmginc.com/product-category/banshee/banshee-300-series/?orderby=popularity
For anyone that can't have recoil - the Banshee is the way to go @ $1400 (ish) or you could also spend north of $3200 for the H&K SP5 for the best recoilless system on the market. The direct blow back offerings like the colt in this vid are all similar. I shot the Ruger PC9 and could not believe how much recoil shock there was.
Agreed! Love mine!
Choices.... Gotta love the US. Now get out and vote!
Very good looking 'pistol'! I'm excited that all their PCCs are incorporating this operating system! now they offer the old-school Colt/Uzi-mag version with radially delayed blowback!💪😁💣
Nice, I just got home from shooting mine.
The million dollar question is how does it compare to LWRC 45 carbine or the HK 9mm carbines???
@@roryisenberg4804 I should buy both of those just to find out. Yeah that's a good idea....
@@thesoggycheeseburgerincide7401 see garand thumb review....its not recc'd until fixed....if it can be fixed
Excellent explanation. Thank you.
Great video!
Flat recoil spring? Which did you use? What length? I have the Banshee 300 Mk4 lower, with the Micro/CQB brace and buffer extension tube and it has the round “piano” wire style.
I ordered a flat spring, but it is designed for the Mil-Spec M4 buffer extension tube. It may work... it may not... still waiting on my upper.
Thank you sir.
One detail I quite like about the 9mm Banshee that I didn't notice until I got one is that the caliber marking isn't 9mm Luger, 9mm Pata, or 9x19mm, but instead it's 9mm NATO, which means it is expressly rated for hotter 9mm loads.
And thanks for testing 147 grain suppressed. I'd seen other people claim that 147 grain flat nose loads keyhole and cause baffle strikes in the Banshee. I'm glad to see you had no such issues.
Very informative videos - the designs behind the bangs! Can you pls do a comparison of the Banshee 45 vs HK UMP? I saw your take on the MPX vs MP5, and it made me go with the unpopular choice. Keep doing what you're doing!
If I only had access to a UMP I would
@@SmallArmsSolutions Hi Chris. I have a USC, with stock conversion only and still firing single stacks. I just bought a Banshee 45 off the rack that I'm waiting to receive. I live in PA and come regularly to AR, so could meet you half way in Texarkana with both guns. ;) Or you're welcome to fly into Philly for some PA hospitality.
If I install a Sylvan Arm folding stock adapter or the Law adapter on the 8" banshee, would there be any problem with the added weight to the bolt carrier from the adapter extension?
Cool gun. I wonder if the new P320-mag fed version will be better at locking back after the last shot given P320 mags are metal.
Mark Thibault you are about to find out, just got one in! Not fired it yet
Just did the range footage with the P320 mag version. Yes, locks back 100%. Only drawback is that it will not take the ETS mags, won’t catch on the mag catch
Its 2 or 3 down the list but I am planning a Colt SMG build. Except I want to utilize CMMGs radial delayed system. Fortunately they sell the barrel and BCG together. Then I'll send the barrel off to John Thomas to be cut down and reprofiled.
I did contact CMMG about the profile/taper on their 9mm 16" barrel. It has plenty of "meat" on it to reprofile her into a pencil weight.
Im not sure what the barrel length would end up being as the Colt 9mm barrels extend deeper into the upper.
My only real concern is will I have feeding issues using the Colt SMG magazines? Maybe the feed ramp will need to be widened. I'm pretty sure Colt SMG mags are double feed right?
There are cmmg banshees that feed from colt mags
They do not take colt mags, the best you could do is the converted full size ar mags they offer
I tried the same thing and I can tell you definitively that the CMMG radial delay bolt and barrel will NOT work with Colt pattern magazines. 1st that the CMMG bolt uses a AR15 style plunger ejector, so the fixed ejector of the Colt SMG pattern has to be removed (not a big deal). 2nd the feed ramp does not have enough clearance between it and the bolt carrier preventing the upper and lower from closing. By the time its filed down to allow the receiver halves to close, there isn't much left of it. 3rd and the nail in the coffin is that the Colt mags sit too high inside the receiver, and prevent the bolt from passing over it. The bolt literally slams into the back of the magazine housing. Learn from my mistake, just get the Glock mag lower or what I did, was the 9mm converted PMAGS.
Simply and genial!
I have to admit that I'm sad that you did not get the version that takes the Mean Arms "p-mags".
I saw all the videos on youtube about this pistol and all the good reviews that u guys wrote but guess what “YES” I bought my Banshee 9mm yesterday and I went to the range today. Every 3 or 4 rounds I had a failure to shoot. I used Blazer 115 grains bullet. Any idea of What is happening?
The ar converted mags should not have this problem with the bolt hold open feature.
cmmg uses 4140 barrels, not 4150..., button cut. Would be nice to get a cold hammer forged barrel for the price they charge on these things.
Will you review the version that uses converted magpul mags?
Love your video,,, keep up the good work. Also I built my AR 9mm, for a home protection, and mostly to have fun at the rang. I have a question????? What is the best barrel length for Home protection?
9mm uses fairly fast burning powder for short (4-6") barrel handguns. You will get more velocity out of an 8" but you will get diminishing returns on a 9mm with longer barrels.
I have been looking into a 9mm build myself and I am thinking of going with an 8" barrel. There is a big difference between a 4" barrel and an 8" barrel. There is a smaller difference between an 8" barrel and an 11.5" or 12" barrel.
I am thinking 8" is what I want. I don't think the extra length is worth the extra velocity once you get over 8". You can look up 9mm velocities out of different length barrels and decide where you want that barrel length vs. velocity balance.
www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html
Hope that helps. Note how much velocity increases from 4" to 6" to 8" then look at the smaller increases as barrel length increases.
most common weights of 9mm projectiles don't see much velocity gain once the barrel gets longer than 7-8", as they are designed for pistols.
Why weren't HP's tested???
So many guns....so little money
How much is this gun?
buy the Sig!!
Steve Jovan which one?
Kali Das
MPX
Thanks for putting out such great informative videos. I purchased the 8” 9mm Banshee about a year ago and have had my bolt replaced recently (free under warranty) because of feeding and extracting issues. The tuning kit did not help. So far, my Banshee runs great with 115gr ammo with the new bolt. Also, it runs great with 17 or 33 round mags, but double-feeds with 24 round mags. I suspect the higher spring pressure in the 24 round mag feeds too quickly. My Banshee also doesn’t like 124gr NATO ammo. Instead of trying different tuning weights, will changing buffers work? Just curious, since it would be easier and quicker at the range. Thanks.
I see you have a lot a ammo do you have any for sell?
Shawna Lange no sir. This ammunition is used for testing firearms for the channel. SAS does not sell firearms or accessories. We are a consulting and education firm.
This weapon seems like it has a lot of recoil for a 9mm.
One thing this lock system makes me curious about is how durable is it. Since it deals with a lot of friction, what is the expected life? 10, 30, 50.000 rounds?
Great firearm, I just hate the way the metal mag release has accelerated wear on the polymer Glock mags. Mags eventually stop locking in, rather quickly. I also wish it didn’t have a forward assist.
Technically speaking the Banshee does not fall 100% under the "delayed" category. Its rather uses an accelerated bolt. The pressure between the bullet and the cartridge case pushes back in the bolt face. The bolt face is pushed against the trunnions locking lugs and because the corresponding locking lugs of the bots are at an angle the bolt is rotating. This rotation is transmitted to the bolt carrier via the camming surface. This transmission accelerates the bolt carrier, meaning for every distance the bolt head is traveling backwards the bolt carrier is forced to travel a lager distance back ward, this system is taking away a lot of force.
In a "delayed" system there wouldn't be any movement, untill the breech is set free.
Source: Sub-Machine Gun, The Development of Sub-Machine Guns and their Ammunition by Maxim Popenker & Anthony G. Williams Page: 28
I don't think any of the "delayed" blowback systems on firearms are actually delayed.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD HK P7
@@cutzykadsemk.2207 "In a "delayed" system there wouldn't be any movement, untill the breech is set free" - but in the P7 the breech is "free", it opens slightly before the gas pressure drops. The gas pressure simply slows the slide down.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD The sources I read are saying, that the gas in the cylinder prevents the slide from doing any movement, until the gas pressure in the barrel drops.
"Arbeiten zu Studium und Praxis im Bundesgrenzschutz: Waffenlehre - Grundlage der Systemlehre by Wolfgang Pietzner" Page 48. Quote:
"Der Verschluss wird dadurch in seiner Rückwärtsbewegung verzögert; gegenteiliges Prinzip wie beim Gasdrucklader.
Sinkt der Gasdruck ab, so öffnet sich der Verschluss[...].
"The Slide (lit. Bolt) is therefor delayed in its backwards movement; in opposite to a gas operated system. Is the gas pressure falling, the slide (lit. bolt) is opening its self."
@@cutzykadsemk.2207 But then in that case the chamber fluting wouldn't be necessary because they're not necessary in locked breech pistols. The fact that the chamber is fluted is evidence of the fact that the case will attempt to extract on firing. Also, you can just do the math. Assuming equal pressure inside the bore and the gas cylinder, the case head has a larger area than the gas cylinder so there will be a greater force pushing the slide open than forcing it closed. Also, if the gas system did force the system closed, the pistol would probably short stroke a lot due to most of the blowback impulse being arrested and the slide only picking up speed with very low bore pressure.
I really love what CMMG is doing but i must say "THEIR PRICES ARE GROSS AF"🤣🤣🤣
and their barrels are mediocre.
Yeah but when you start introducing non standard AR parts, you kinda got to expect a price increase.
Ummm....what did you expect? PSA AR9 prices? How much are you going to pay for an MP5 clone, let alone an original? Admittedly, I stepped up and bought one in burnt bronze just as covid was taking hold so I got a decent price. Much like with Chris, mine has run 100%. I like it so much, my search for a 9mm long gun has ended. I’ve already sold my Scorpions, will soon sell the AR9, Beretta Storm, and B&T GHM9. Only other one I’m keeping is Ruger PCC as they both use Glock mags, and it was dirt cheap!
Don Richter I personally think it’s the best 9mm pcc. As long as a gun holds its value, I don’t really care about price.
Yes it takes glock mags.
Am I the only the one that really does not care if the weapon locks back on the last round, especially on shoulder weapons? I grew up shooting Heckler & Koch M91/93s so maybe I am just acclimated to not care?
It's not a dealbreaker for me, but I'd rather have it than not have it.
@@Scott-qq9jd Sure, I understand. I am just more blase about its absence.
Too much time with my zipper in the Midwestern mud apparently.
The ak47 everyone raves about has no hold open either but no one bitches and moans about that! 🙄
@@69deputy apparently enough bitch about it that there's hold open magazines and hold open notches on safeties.
@@stevenrith2386 Lol, I am trying! I remember when all this was orchard.
👍👍🇺🇸
The radial delayed blowback system seems great, though it remains to be seen how they hold up long term. Probably best in 9mm as there's less stress on parts, while 9mm Glocks run better than .45 ACP and 10mm Glocks. Not sure there is much need for a PCC as a pistol and rifle are all that one needs IMO, except perhaps for covert use as part of a hunter-killer team like the special forces soldiers in the Vietnam War era Phoenix Program where you want a compact suppressed long arm.
I had one, it shot great but I couldn’t get over how ugly it was so I sold it.