The XM9 Trials, Just the Facts

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 22 дек 2024
  • America's Rifle Order here: smallarmssoluti...
    AXIL Earmuffs Tactical amzn.to/2PIrFJV
    Foam Rifle and Pistol Rest amzn.to/2mIjHSr
    Efect Military Tool amzn.to/3mgFxHm
    Armorer's Manual amzn.to/2G5FRm2
    Donate To SAS: donorbox.org/d...
    Patreon Page: / smallarmssolutions
    SAS Amazon Store: www.amazon.com...
    Challenge Targets - Code SAS - 10% off steel targets
    www.challenget...
    Otis Tech Gun Cleaning Gear - Code SAS15 - 15% off
    otistec.com/?r...
    G96 - Code SAS10 - 10% off
    g96.com
    Manta Products - Code BAR20 - 20% off
    bit.ly/2IIzLK9
    Facebook - bit.ly/2INZa4S
    Website - smallarmssolutions.com
    Instagram - SmallArmsSolutions

Комментарии •

  • @romanace3432
    @romanace3432 Месяц назад +150

    I agree with this quote you said “I think we should use American guns if they meet the requirements we shouldn’t lower the standards”

    • @oleboy7615
      @oleboy7615 Месяц назад +12

      @@romanace3432 Yes, but the M&P9 M2.0 more than meets the requirements for military and LE use. There is no reason for the US military not to issue the M&P. It is far and away a better choice than the P320.

    • @miketeeveedub5779
      @miketeeveedub5779 Месяц назад +1

      Too bad we can't say that with US soldiers. I hear they lowered their athletic standards to allow for more "lower tier" recruits. Guess beggars can't be choosers.

    • @oleboy7615
      @oleboy7615 Месяц назад +1

      @ To the contrary, they PT test is more difficult; however, the program is more focused on social issues than operational readiness. Conventional troop ranks are pitiful.

  • @thenegociater3387
    @thenegociater3387 Месяц назад +115

    The current CEO of Sig was previously the CEO of kimber during it’s worst years of quality control.

    • @UnworthySeraphim
      @UnworthySeraphim Месяц назад

      That's the (((Cohen))) way. Low cost, high mark up!

    • @oleboy7615
      @oleboy7615 Месяц назад +16

      BINGO!!! And as a result, Sig has fallen sharply. They have had more recalls and issues with more guns than all other top tier manufacturers combined since 2006. This is an irrefutable fact, yet there is no shortage of Sig fans ignorantly laughing at anyone who dares speak the truth.

    • @great_deception
      @great_deception Месяц назад

      @@oleboy7615 Wrong, S&W continues to lead the firearms industry in # of recalls issued. Just visit their recalls page. I love how misinformation spreads.

    • @xusmico187
      @xusmico187 Месяц назад +14

      if it is not a 226 series ... the rest are crap

    • @oleboy7615
      @oleboy7615 Месяц назад +12

      @@xusmico187 Even the classic P series guns produced today have Sig outsourced MIM parts, and bc of this are suspect.

  • @jynkkytonttu5942
    @jynkkytonttu5942 Месяц назад +110

    "trigger of a stanley staple gun" lmao😂

    • @KACisWAC
      @KACisWAC Месяц назад +1

      Came here for this 🥰🤣

    • @RewardedRocki
      @RewardedRocki Месяц назад +8

      As the owner of a VP70, that is an insult to staple guns.

    • @davidforsberg5675
      @davidforsberg5675 28 дней назад

      Makes a double action revolver trigger a dream....

  • @Cgopat
    @Cgopat 23 дня назад +3

    I was a Marine MP in 1987 and originally issued a 1911. By then all the 1911s were worn out and constantly breaking. In 1988 we changed over to the Beretta 92F. Putting aside the "stopping power" argument, the guns shot like a dream. I never had a malfunction. In 1996 I joined the LAPD and was issued a Beretta 92FS. I carried it for the first few years and never had a problem with it. After the LAPD approved .45s I started carrying a Beretta 8045 with the extended barrel required by the department. That, like my previous 92FS, worked flawlessly. I eventually transitioned to a Glock 21 for the increased magazine capacity (The Beretta was 8+1). I bought my issued Beretta 92FS from the department when I retired. I don't use it or carry it CCW because of its size, but I'd stake my life on it any day, just like I did for the many years I carried it with the USMC and LAPD. There are many guns out there now that are just as good as the Beretta 92FS, but putting personal preferences and desired features aside, IMO there's none that are better.

  • @Mjdeben
    @Mjdeben Месяц назад +152

    Its wierd how the Air Force always seems to make the right decisions regarding Small Arms while Big Army/Marines get it wrong more often than right.

    • @SuperGarouden
      @SuperGarouden Месяц назад +15

      ARMY has that mindset that they can save more by buying a bundle of cheap firearms rather than quality but expensive firearms

    • @Chiller11
      @Chiller11 Месяц назад +44

      Air Force can afford to think creatively with small arms. They purchase relatively small numbers and small arms are not integral to their operations.

    • @donwyoming1936
      @donwyoming1936 Месяц назад +33

      I remember back in Desert Storm, when the USAF didn't have enough M9s to go around and had to issue M15 revolvers to pilots, we just flew back to Europe and bought Glocks.
      We also didn't adopt the M16A2 until the late 1990s when M193 ammo ran out. We knew our old Colt 604s were superior to the Army's M16A1 & the A2.

    • @jeffshriber6120
      @jeffshriber6120 Месяц назад +3

      I disagree that the xm9 test were done right the sig 226 is better but not expensive.

    • @johnchristopher3032
      @johnchristopher3032 Месяц назад +8

      Air Force has higher mean IQ than the others

  • @bryanduchane2371
    @bryanduchane2371 Месяц назад +44

    By far the best and only credible video on this topic.... Not sure the most recent selection of the Sig 320 was nearly as clear as this selection...

    • @oleboy7615
      @oleboy7615 Месяц назад +3

      He did another video on that, and it’s pretty good. The USA violated its own selection protocols to select the P320, but nothing to see here. The Army always picks the best gun available. 😂

    • @oleboy7615
      @oleboy7615 Месяц назад

      @ Do you really believe that?

  • @garyK.45ACP
    @garyK.45ACP Месяц назад +47

    When I transitioned from a revolver to a semi-auto duty handgun in 1986, I chose the Beretta. Mine is the 92F. In 1990, I went into plainclothes work and chose a SIG P228 for my duty handgun, which I carried for the next 19 years. The Beretta was my 'backup' handgun, which I used for some duties, such as warrant service, etc.
    Both were great. I still have both. I have owned both for over 30 years, the Beretta for almost 40 years. Neither has malfunctioned with any ammo I used in them. I still shoot both of them frequently, but they are not my EDC choice.
    I chose the Beretta over the SIG P226 _because_ it had a manual safety, which I preferred for uniform duty (open) carry. For plainclothes work, (mostly concealed carry) I preferred the slightly smaller P228 and preferred that it had _no_ safety, decock only.

    • @terrarecon
      @terrarecon Месяц назад +2

      When I was an LEO of a smaller dept we had to provide our own side arm. I also selected the Berretta 92FS in the 90's. I still have it to this day.

    • @garyK.45ACP
      @garyK.45ACP Месяц назад +2

      @@terrarecon I was in a very large city department, we also had to buy our own duty handguns from an approved roster.
      We were not allowed to carry semi-autos on duty until 1986. Until late 1991 new officers had a choice of revolver or semi-auto. After 1991, new officers could only carry semi-autos.
      Those of us hired before 1991 (I started in 1973) had the option to carry revolvers until we retired.
      I retired in 2009. By that time, very few officers still carried revolvers.
      I carried revolvers throughout my career as off duty handguns, and still have 2 revolvers in my concealed carry rotation.

  • @phishno2767
    @phishno2767 15 дней назад +2

    Outstanding presentation of the facts, and your analogy of not maintaining a car yet expecting it to work is relevant. And I know people who do that too. As an aside I worked behind a gun counter in the late Eighties shortly after the Beretta was confirmed as the new service pistol, and among our regular clients were several LEOs with local, state, and Federal agencies. One of the FBI agents had been issued a P226 and held it in high regard for its shooting characteristics but he was also quick to point out that several agents had experienced cracked frames with their P226 pistols, some of which had only been in service for a couple of years. If my memory of what he told me is correct, the bureau had SIG on the hook to replace frames at the 5k mark to mitigate against field failures. Whether that was for all the pistols under the contract or for a specific batches or batches, I never found out. I do recall that he told me he was on his second frame for his pistol and that that conversation had been in the context of M9 slide separations. It didn't dampen his enthusiasm for the P226 but he said he went to great pains to maintain an accurate round count for it. I suspect that if anyone had been physically injured due to frame failures on the SIG that SIG would have had a similar PR disaster on their hands. So far as I know SIG's failures didn't result in injury and the tales of their own issues therefore didn't grow legs. Unfortunately, bad information seems to propagate faster than factually correct information and to have greater persistence, both of which worked against Beretta

  • @TheSpritz0
    @TheSpritz0 Месяц назад +63

    M9 saved my life in the War I bought one for home defence right after I got out…

    • @markanthonypar-wise1499
      @markanthonypar-wise1499 Месяц назад +3

      Oh wow? What happened? If you don't mind saying?

    • @TheSpritz0
      @TheSpritz0 Месяц назад +6

      @@markanthonypar-wise1499 Ran out of Ammo and had to use my pistol (I had 2 extra clips for that!). Bad guy walked right out of an abandoned building!

    • @markanthonypar-wise1499
      @markanthonypar-wise1499 Месяц назад +2

      @@TheSpritz0 did you shoot him or did he leave once seeing your pistol?

    • @PalmettoNDN
      @PalmettoNDN 21 день назад +1

      "Clip". "Badguy". "Abandoned building".
      Cool story, bro.

  • @lam.924
    @lam.924 Месяц назад +25

    These are my absolute favorite videos from you Chris. Thanks for these!

  • @phatsmitty
    @phatsmitty Месяц назад +5

    Have one Italian Beretta 92fs, one West German SIG Sauer P226.... enjoy them both very much, and the historical significance. Thanks Mr. B for another excellent video, and for comparing two incredibly engineered sidearms.

  • @Del_S
    @Del_S Месяц назад +164

    1911 is adopted: "ugh I want my revolver back."
    M9 is adopted: "ugh I want my 1911 back."
    M17/19 is adopted: "Ugh I just shot myself in the leg. And want my M9 back."

    • @zobiya17
      @zobiya17 Месяц назад +2

      😂😂😂😂

    • @markanthonypar-wise1499
      @markanthonypar-wise1499 Месяц назад +2

      😅😅 pretty much. Or they could have gotten with glock or Beretta's entry with the new pistol program

    • @wizard_of_poz4413
      @wizard_of_poz4413 Месяц назад +4

      ​@markanthonypar-wise1499 i bought an a3 and it's like a work of art

    • @SCH292
      @SCH292 Месяц назад +4

      @@markanthonypar-wise1499 Sig fan boys to your comment/response:
      "tHe sIg hAs tHe m0dUlAr sYsteM! iT caN sH00t tHree fifTy 7, four-Dee N nine mini meter!".

    • @markanthonypar-wise1499
      @markanthonypar-wise1499 Месяц назад

      @@wizard_of_poz4413 nice 👍. I've got the Beretta 92a1 love it.

  • @secretsquirrel3711
    @secretsquirrel3711 Месяц назад +31

    I’d love to see the M9A4 go up against the Sig p320, Glock and Smith and Wesson in the same type of trials.

    • @celmer6
      @celmer6 Месяц назад

      @@secretsquirrel3711 now that would be entertaining for sure! I would watch that on Sports Center any day.

    • @sanders194539
      @sanders194539 Месяц назад +2

      I shot M9s quite a bit and they are great guns. Like the video states, I only saw problems with guns that were clearly worn out after decades of use. I do not care for the grip of the M9 but the M9a4 recontoured the frames and I am sure they would have preformed excellent.

  • @Gort-zs5ph
    @Gort-zs5ph Месяц назад +11

    Another superb quality show with rich content as usual. Sincere thank you Chris. Been a fan since I was an NFA dealer from 2007-2013, had your books, but customers bought them from me when they saw me reading them with much enthusiasm.

  • @MatterMadeMoot
    @MatterMadeMoot Месяц назад +3

    Thanks for laying all this out so well. My friend has a Beretta 92 that's labeled "F TYPE -S-", 1988 vintage with factory walnut grips. Apparently a 92F that was among those the gov't converted to 92FS during this period. It still has the first gen locking block, and has run almost perfectly for 2000 rounds now. I respect the P226 but M9 is one of my all time favorites.

  • @stevenasser368
    @stevenasser368 Месяц назад +14

    Great Video! Both the M9 and the Sig P226 are excellent firearms! Both incredibly reliable and if properly maintained will continue to function as intended. These things are tanks .

    • @FirstLast-ff7qx
      @FirstLast-ff7qx Месяц назад +2

      Agreed.

    • @markanthonypar-wise1499
      @markanthonypar-wise1499 Месяц назад

      Yup. You would think they would come to the same conclusion especially since it malfunctioned the Beretta and Sig 226.

  •  Месяц назад +52

    I'll go to my grave firmly believing that someone was bought off is why the Sig Sauer P320 was chosen over the Beretta M9.

    • @MasahikoKohineko
      @MasahikoKohineko Месяц назад +12

      It's very likely, one of the generals involved in the MHS trials joined the SIG board of directors right after the 320 was formally adopted.

    • @mattf5630
      @mattf5630 Месяц назад

      John McCain. He went in and said we didnt need to do any high round durability testing and claimed it was a waste of money and time. The xm17 wasn’t completed and Glock tried to sue but got shut out. John McCain got paid

    • @LyleH-13
      @LyleH-13 Месяц назад +8

      neither the glock or the sig met the requirement. should have been cancelled.

    • @jonathanpiccone6935
      @jonathanpiccone6935 Месяц назад

      @@MasahikoKohineko , a hot tub , cocaine and chai boys mixed with generals and ..we have sig now

  • @PalmettoNDN
    @PalmettoNDN 21 день назад +2

    The most hilarious thing is that Ruger even tried.

  • @roundstone2020
    @roundstone2020 Месяц назад +10

    Dude, you make the best gun videos I've ever seen, thanks

  • @donwyoming1936
    @donwyoming1936 Месяц назад +5

    I was issued both the Beretta & Sig during my career. Neither ever failed me. I really enjoy hearing how indepth the testing was.

  • @fatcat3211
    @fatcat3211 Месяц назад +24

    The Sig fiasco extends to LEO as well. It's beyond me why the Sig 320 is awarded so many govt. contracts.

    • @jeffersondaviszombie2734
      @jeffersondaviszombie2734 Месяц назад +18

      Corruption

    • @John-li6tn
      @John-li6tn Месяц назад

      ​@@jeffersondaviszombie2734 "coruption" possibly but the primary reason is whatever the Military/Federal Government orders Law Enforcement/Civilian market buys. This is why companies sell Military/Federal Government for $175. & Civilians pay $600. or more for the same product, just look at the price for the Magazines, $9 to $11.00 compared to $30 or more for Civilian market.

    • @UnworthySeraphim
      @UnworthySeraphim Месяц назад

      (((Cohen))) people type corruption

    • @DK-gy7ll
      @DK-gy7ll Месяц назад +2

      Lowest bidder. If an agency wants a new pistol, and SIG meets their requirements and gives them the best bid, it's pretty hard to convince the book keepers to let them pick something else instead.

    • @jeffersondaviszombie2734
      @jeffersondaviszombie2734 Месяц назад

      @DK-gy7ll that's what they want you to think.

  • @lynnlittle8671
    @lynnlittle8671 Месяц назад +3

    My two favorite handguns, the Sig P226/229, and the Beretta 92X. My favorite carry gun is my Sig P229 Legion.

  • @FirstLast-ff7qx
    @FirstLast-ff7qx Месяц назад +8

    The frame and slide breakage at a very low round count on a bunch of those pistols is a head scratcher.

    • @FirstLast-ff7qx
      @FirstLast-ff7qx Месяц назад

      @ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd thats wild they didnt have quality assurance down before goin for a military contract.

    • @FirstLast-ff7qx
      @FirstLast-ff7qx Месяц назад

      @@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd id love to see it. Im a nerd for that type of stuff.

  • @rogiervis2306
    @rogiervis2306 Месяц назад +19

    I remember the stories here on Holland about how bad the beretta was and that it broke all the time. The 92 had a bad reputation in the late 1990's here, caused by the stories from the US

    • @GrumpyNCO
      @GrumpyNCO Месяц назад

      Funny how we're seeing the same thing with the P320 now...

    • @Andrew_NJ
      @Andrew_NJ Месяц назад +4

      @@GrumpyNCO Not really the P320 problems were known way before the Army selected it.

    • @GrumpyNCO
      @GrumpyNCO Месяц назад

      @Andrew_NJ so did the beretta

    • @dogwoodhillbilly
      @dogwoodhillbilly Месяц назад

      That's because of 2 reasons. One, they didn't regularly clean and maintain their M9s and let them get beat up. Two, the ones the military got were of a lower quality standard than the commercial variants.

    • @RCXDerp
      @RCXDerp Месяц назад +1

      @@dogwoodhillbilly They got cheapo mags and they were beat to shit

  • @abigbrownbear
    @abigbrownbear Месяц назад +34

    The M9A1 is my CCW choice everyday to protect my family and myself. I can listen to the history of the 92FS all day. Thanks.

    • @star9732
      @star9732 Месяц назад +3

      This is like using a dumb truck for a daily commuter.

    • @ReverendMeat51
      @ReverendMeat51 Месяц назад +8

      @@star9732 No it isn't.

    • @epiccowboymemes2042
      @epiccowboymemes2042 Месяц назад +4

      ​@@star9732Overly reliable and you can push the other competition out of the way? Horrible analogy!

    • @star9732
      @star9732 Месяц назад +2

      @ it’s needlessly big and heavy. You’re torturing yourself hauling that thing around. It’s 2024 not 1985. Did you walk barefoot to school uphill both ways?

    • @epiccowboymemes2042
      @epiccowboymemes2042 Месяц назад +1

      @@star9732 Okay boomer

  • @tmasdad
    @tmasdad Месяц назад +3

    Great take on the XM9 Program! Thanks! The first pistol I ever bought was in 1986, and it was a Barretta Model 92F (M9). I still have that pistol, and if something goes bump in the night, it continues to be my go-to pistol. It was good enough for Bruce Willis in “Die Hard”, and it’s good enough for me. 😂

  • @keithbarron3654
    @keithbarron3654 Месяц назад +9

    I was stationed at Roosevelt roads, PR from 1986-8. Used to have SEALS come thru. They had the S&W 9 mm guns, they hated them due to breakage of slide and frame, believe this maintenance info was used in court cases. The Barrettes had been stress tested by Conn State troopers, they found problems and improved. After they were purchased and several other states went with them, believe this helped getting the contract. Several other changes had been made, but with these contracts, manufacturering was moved to US sooner then originally planned. A small portion would be assembled here til factory built.

    • @oleboy7615
      @oleboy7615 Месяц назад +1

      None of these guns were built to take the punishment of +P+ ammo, so a lot of problems related to firearms failure can be traced back to ammo selection, not the gun itself. That particular S&W has been used by numerous military and LE agencies all over the world with no issues. Use proper ammo. Funny how that works.

    • @chrisragone8785
      @chrisragone8785 Месяц назад

      BERETTA

    • @keithbarron3654
      @keithbarron3654 Месяц назад

      @chrisragone8785 no they were S&w, bought outside of regular procurement, aluminum and steel, the slide would come back and slice top of arm. The SEALS were used to it occurring.

  • @mghegotagun
    @mghegotagun Месяц назад +41

    Looking for a new rifle platform. Air force is first to push for the AR15.
    Looking for a 9x19 handgun. Air force is already eying up the M92.
    I think the ordinance core should be the air force's responsibility at this point.

    • @donwyoming1936
      @donwyoming1936 Месяц назад +2

      💯 I've been saying this for years. The USAF was also the 1st to adopt the Glock 19 as a substitute standard in 1991.

    • @JD-tn5lz
      @JD-tn5lz Месяц назад

      Brings to mind...even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
      No thanks. Not that I have so much faith in the US Army on making the choice, it's that relying on the USAF for the best infantry or ground combat arms weapon is essentially just hoping to get lucky.

    • @epiccowboymemes2042
      @epiccowboymemes2042 Месяц назад

      Real

    • @JD-tn5lz
      @JD-tn5lz Месяц назад

      ​@@donwyoming1936remember two things..."substitute" and that procurement with an eye for non-combat arms personnel in very limited quantities is VERY different than selecting a weapon that'll work for a Marine at -40f while visiting Norway or a GI under the muck at Jungle Warfare School.
      Why stop at small arms? Why not have the USAF select warships and landing craft too? Maybe they'll get lucky there also.

    • @TyrsMissingArm
      @TyrsMissingArm Месяц назад +1

      @@JD-tn5lz Check out how serious the Air Force takes Air Base Defense and protection of assets.

  • @3wheelmannc860
    @3wheelmannc860 Месяц назад +7

    I like Sig, but not a huge fan of the P320, especially as a "duty" tool with the many issues noted. I like the P229/P226 line. The original use M9's were very well built, but for me they are too grip chunky. The M9A4 is one of my favs with the Vertx style grip. I hope to pick up a LTT version some day.

  • @lowellhouser7731
    @lowellhouser7731 Месяц назад +10

    The new SIG 320-ish.... it has full modularity that will be ignored because each unit will order it, configure every pistol to one standard configuration, and then put all the extra parts on a shelf never to be seen again. All for a pistol that doesn't work right. Wonder how many officers got golden parachutes to ram that through. I was a fan of the M9A3, myself.

    • @great_deception
      @great_deception Месяц назад +1

      Where do you get your information, the military has been ordering the small and large grip modules for the M17/M18 for years. It's even a cheap route to go, if a frame cracks or gets abused so badly on a traditional pistol like the M9 or even a Glock, the gun is scrapped, if the same thing happens to a P320, a $40 grip module fixes the issue.

    • @lowellhouser7731
      @lowellhouser7731 Месяц назад +1

      @@great_deception Easy. I was an 0311. I know exactly how this works.

    • @great_deception
      @great_deception Месяц назад +1

      @@lowellhouser7731 Then you should know....

    • @therideneverends1697
      @therideneverends1697 Месяц назад

      @@great_deception ordering VS using are two different things.
      They ORDERED alot of left and right M16a1 handgaurds, but somehow i can still find cases of left handgaurds that have not been made since the late 70s at surplus auctions but right handgaurds are hens teeth

  • @ldiggs9072
    @ldiggs9072 Месяц назад +8

    OG
    Facts base only channel.

  • @ianberry5879
    @ianberry5879 Месяц назад +2

    The M9 is a fantastic service pistol, many of the complaints around it were due to magazine issues. That said if I had to choose to equip a standing army, I would choose the P226 over the Beretta.

  • @Goldenwithaleash
    @Goldenwithaleash Месяц назад +2

    Love these deep dive types of videos on military procurement.
    The 80’s action movie fan in me loves the M9 but if I personally had to choose one, it would be the 226.

  • @DerekJones1081962
    @DerekJones1081962 Месяц назад +2

    This was very well presented. I recently had a chance to handle and shoot a new commercial beretta 92 and loved it. It was smoother and had better balance than I remembered the older pistols to be. I'd own one again if I could afford one, but my budget is tight again thanks to Bidenomics.

  • @mpwmu9041
    @mpwmu9041 Месяц назад

    I have subbed to Small Arms Solutions for 8 years. I still don't get notifications when new vids drop. Bell clicked. Great stuff per usual CB.

  • @AKlover
    @AKlover Месяц назад +3

    Largely thanks to your channel I’m probably going to buy an M-9A4 once the gun market crashes a little bit more. When the time came years back about a CZ 75 instead. Just to clarify no regrets in that choice

    • @springbloom5940
      @springbloom5940 21 день назад

      Turn it upside down and listen for the click. The disconnector falls away from the trigger bar and it wont fire.

  • @monsoonthagoon
    @monsoonthagoon Месяц назад +1

    Great video!
    I can't believe this is my first time to the channel, subbed so I won't miss out on more.

  • @cokedaz
    @cokedaz Месяц назад +2

    Thank you for this. I knew a lot of it but not a few of those finer details. It makes a lot more sense now. Especially the +P+ issue. Thanks for the video. M9/92FS best and coolest looking handgun probably of all time imo.

  • @JD-tn5lz
    @JD-tn5lz Месяц назад +23

    Fact is, folks need to see that government is supposed to be a responsible steward of the tax dollars you pay.
    Also, remember, that in a military sense, a sidearm not only is not a secondary weapon, it is almost always tertiary...a weapon of desperation much like an e-tool or K-bar. Even as an NCO (USMC; mortars) I kept my sidearm in a plastic baggie and always, and I mean always, carried my M16 though I didn't "have to."
    In law enforcement it's different. The sidearm is primary, odds are that when you get involved in a shooting, it'll be with your sidearm.
    Having had careers in both, my first concern with a personal weapon was not the "finer points" but will it function in every condition that I can function in?

  • @pillscottvt6628
    @pillscottvt6628 Месяц назад +38

    West German girls were hot.

  • @irafowlerjr.7492
    @irafowlerjr.7492 Месяц назад +2

    Fantastic, really enjoyed , love them both. Thanks

  • @pt8946
    @pt8946 Месяц назад +1

    Another great presentation from one of the best, thank you for putting out this type of content.

  • @tigerman3
    @tigerman3 Месяц назад +1

    I own and love both pistols. Thanks for the outstanding presentation!

  • @ryanfreeman9684
    @ryanfreeman9684 Месяц назад +4

    Thank you very much we love all of em

  • @fanman8102
    @fanman8102 Месяц назад +2

    Excellent, thanks! I have experience with both these excellent pistols however, when given a choice, I will stick with the USP40.

  • @vitoscaletta7151
    @vitoscaletta7151 Месяц назад +5

    Surprised to hear about FN voluntarily withdrew the HP-DA considering the Finnish adopted it and have used it for decades

  • @hondasaurusrex6998
    @hondasaurusrex6998 Месяц назад +1

    Great insight! Happy Vets day to you!

  • @ModernRefugee
    @ModernRefugee Месяц назад +1

    I always enjoy the information I get from this channel. Thank you.

  • @tomemida
    @tomemida Месяц назад +1

    I love my 92SB (pre-F series) and it has worked flawlessly over thousands of rounds. I had to carry the P226 as a duty weapon and didn't care for it, especially fit to my hand.

  • @MiguelFunmail
    @MiguelFunmail Месяц назад +1

    I bought an M9 recently and the hammer started marring , I had a terrible service trying to get ahold of someone in Berettas Customer Service. I do love the design!

  • @doloface23
    @doloface23 Месяц назад +4

    I always liked the p226 more

  • @TheKiltedGerman
    @TheKiltedGerman Месяц назад

    I've always loved the M9, but this channel setting the record straight is what made it my all time favorite pistol.

  • @dbmail545
    @dbmail545 Месяц назад +3

    I have always hated the feel of the Beretta and never had any enthusiasm for its exposed trigger bar. However the trajectory of Sig-USA in its race to the bottom may prove the Beretta a better choice.

  • @nlwilliamsj
    @nlwilliamsj Месяц назад +5

    One thing I never liked about the Beretta when shooting them in the Coast Guard was the slide mounted safety. I picked up a SIG 226 at a gun show and liked the frame mounted decocker a lot better. The CG later switched to a SIG but it was double action only, which I also disliked. I think the SEALs went the the better pistol.

    • @agentoranj5858
      @agentoranj5858 Месяц назад

      DAO is so stupid. Imagine the SIG P250 as DA/SA, would have been so much better than the P320 trainwreck.

    • @great_deception
      @great_deception Месяц назад

      A DA/SA with a manual safety is such overkill and redundancy. The 22x was so much better though out, just a point and shoot pistol. They are awesome

  • @happyhaunter_5546
    @happyhaunter_5546 29 дней назад +2

    The M17 MHS program HAD to have been money laundering. No reason to not stay with the M9. Both the M9 and 226 are great; love both, only prefer the M9 because I have a lot more practice with it. G decocker is a must for me. Thanks Chris.

  • @razieldrakis
    @razieldrakis Месяц назад +6

    Any chance of a review of 7.62x51mm M80A1 round? I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

  • @steven3379
    @steven3379 Месяц назад

    Got both, 92X RDO Compact and P220 Legion 10mm SAO.
    Good video Chris. Thanks for sharing.

  • @lawtongore7053
    @lawtongore7053 24 дня назад +1

    I had an army buddy that was sent TDY to test those pistols in either 1983 or 1984??? He told me that they thought that the Beretta was a winner winner chicken dinner 😂

  • @Dan-sm3ru
    @Dan-sm3ru Месяц назад +2

    My dad was one of the ordnance guys during the trial and they said they all chose the Ruger P85 but were ignored cause the adoption of weapons is "all politics"

    • @SmallArmsSolutions
      @SmallArmsSolutions  Месяц назад

      The P85 was not entered in the original XM9 Trials.

    • @Dan-sm3ru
      @Dan-sm3ru Месяц назад +1

      @SmallArmsSolutions sorry XM10 a couple years later

  • @assassin40oz
    @assassin40oz Месяц назад +1

    I remember being at NSWC Crane for an armorers course, and Paul Hill told us about some of this.

    • @johnh.2340
      @johnh.2340 Месяц назад

      D, wazz up? Yup, much respect to Mr. Hill and company.

  • @wheelguns4wheelmen802
    @wheelguns4wheelmen802 Месяц назад +1

    I use a Langdon Tactical 92G RDO for limited optics and a Girsan Regard (Turkish 92G clone) for production, but I carry a SIG 226 in .40 S&W when I’m in bear/mountain lion territory hunting, fishing, camping, etc. In other words, the 92 shoots great, but I trust my P226 more and the decocker placement and blocky slide make clearing malfunctions and avoiding malfunctions easier than the open top slide with slide-mounted safety that the 92 features.

  • @BA-oy9uo
    @BA-oy9uo Месяц назад +21

    you included a photo of the vp70 again instead of the p7m13

  • @celmer6
    @celmer6 Месяц назад

    Great video Chris! Personally I always preferred the Beretta 92S with it's frame mounted safety like my 1911's. The Taurus PT99 with it's frame safety and magazine at the trigger guard instead of on the heel was a real Home Run. I've owned them since the 1980's and All of them have been running with no problems or failures. Just spring replacement's so far. Keep up the good work Chris.

  • @workingguy-OU812
    @workingguy-OU812 Месяц назад +2

    It's been rumored that the USA went with the Berretta as a political deal where Italy would USA's allow nuclear weapons to be stored/transported through Italy. Back end deals like that often don't get written down to history though. Out of the four choices, it was easily the best choice at the time. But a question arises as to what other pistols should have been submitted for testing at the time?

    • @SmallArmsSolutions
      @SmallArmsSolutions  Месяц назад +1

      Was a false rumor. It was an open competition for anyone to submit as long as they met the criteria of the program.

  • @borkwoof696
    @borkwoof696 Месяц назад +4

    Where can I find the full test results?

  • @joethebourbonman
    @joethebourbonman Месяц назад +1

    This is a very good breakdown of the history. I think it's really interesting, though I do think it's amusing how there are people in the gun community that are still arguing the Sig vs Beretta thing 40 years after the trials...obviously both are good guns. I am a fan of the M9 largely because it was the issued gun during most of my time in the military--though I definitely saw some really worn out M9s and questionable Checkmate magazines issued.
    I think the writing was on the wall that the US was going to go to a striker fired system. To me the Glock is still the obvious choice, and it's firmly entrenched in SOCOM, but for mass issue the US is still holding on to the idea of a manual safety. While I'm not overly impressed by the "modularity" aspect of the 320 design, I do think it was smart to adopt the M18 and the M17, rather than what we had previously with most units having M9s, but a few M11s floating around with a totally separate set of logistical requirements.
    I personally enjoy shooting the 320 design and haven't had issues with my commercial Sig, but obviously there is a lot reported about potential safety issues with them. I don't know much of that is on the design, or just user error, but I suspect with time the truth with come out.

  • @charliediep
    @charliediep Месяц назад +1

    19:07 Can anyone provide a source on this Beretta lawsuit against the US Government?

  • @apbiggins8mm
    @apbiggins8mm Месяц назад +1

    When did the hk usp come into play i know couple guys tell me they had an hk usp

  • @davidgiles9751
    @davidgiles9751 Месяц назад +1

    My first pistol was a 92FS that I bought post Desert Shield/Storm in 1991. I still own it, and have no idea how many rounds I've put through it. With the exception of a crap off brand "high capacity" magazine I bought (that I ended up throwing away), it' been 100% reliable. I might end up wanting that pistol to be buried with me.
    PS: I'd love it if the US Military ended up with a M9 variant based on a 92G Centurion Vertec (with the exchangeable grip).

  • @lionelhutz3142
    @lionelhutz3142 Месяц назад +3

    It's amazing how the XM9 trials will live on in military history. Government and military employees actually did work back then. Who would have thought? 😂

  • @NCrdwlf
    @NCrdwlf Месяц назад +1

    We had bad reliability with the M9, until they updated the ammo. It had more stopages than my clapped out ithaca 1911 during familiarization and subsequent qualification. It was a big let down for us. As MPs we were never allowed to carry with mags in the weapon in USAREUR, so it didnt matter much anyway . It would have been the pretty pistol that stayed in the holster as we got dusted .

  • @peoplehavetherights
    @peoplehavetherights Месяц назад +6

    After all said and done, the Glock, as little I like them, has proven more durable, reliable, with half the number of parts used, and more than suggests that IT remains the most proven concept over fifty years.

  • @andrewom679
    @andrewom679 Месяц назад +2

    Having used both, both are good pistols.
    The Sig feels better, I can't explain exactly why, but the Beretta felt fine.
    The S&W lost because they simply didn't know how to make a decent semi-auto in the 80s.
    Back to the winners, both work very well. The Sig simply looks and feels cooler. Having also used Glocks extensively, I would put them in the middle of the other two.
    I would not hesitate to carry any of them into a gunfight.
    The Border Patrol has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Beretta is combat capable.

  • @SSgt-
    @SSgt- Месяц назад +17

    I once owned a S&W 659, it was not a handgun I’d bet my life on.

    • @xusmico187
      @xusmico187 Месяц назад +3

      mine too. TOO much galling between slide and frame..

    • @SSgt-
      @SSgt- Месяц назад +2

      @ It was a jamomatic.

  • @Stab_Knifewind
    @Stab_Knifewind Месяц назад

    Always informative and unbiased breakdowns. Thanks Chris.

  • @Gieszkanne
    @Gieszkanne Месяц назад +1

    The German Bundeswehr also cracked their slides of the strong build USP "P8". They used very hot over pressure loads that were designed for MP usage.

    • @pamelastewart1089
      @pamelastewart1089 29 дней назад

      Any more information you have on this? A link to an article perhaps? I'd like to read more about that. Any more information is appreciated. Thanks.

    • @Gieszkanne
      @Gieszkanne 29 дней назад

      @@pamelastewart1089 Only in German. And you wont get more info out of that than I wrote already.

  • @pcb8639
    @pcb8639 Месяц назад +3

    Where can information on the M17/18 failures be found. I have looked all over the internet and have not found anything. Is this a case of the Govt hiding info or is it just that hard to find?

    • @agentoranj5858
      @agentoranj5858 Месяц назад

      You know where this goes in the URL, right? mtzPvJiuCL8

    • @agentoranj5858
      @agentoranj5858 Месяц назад

      There's a video called How the P320 Cost Sig Millions but RUclips is eating my comments again.

  • @LuvBorderCollies
    @LuvBorderCollies Месяц назад +1

    Wondering if Beretta has replaced all those defective magazines they dumped on the Army and Marines? In Somalia my brother had a floorplate fall off his brand new M9, dumping all the ammo and internal parts on the health spa "dirt".
    Fast forward to 2016..... my son-in-law was at Camp Lejeune firing his M9 when another floorplate fell off with results the same as my brother. Being an infantry officer he reports equipment failures up the chain, but no idea if any action is taken.

    • @ReverendMeat51
      @ReverendMeat51 Месяц назад +1

      Those weren't Beretta factory mags, they were third party that the government bought a bunch of even after Beretta told them they shouldn't.

    • @SmallArmsSolutions
      @SmallArmsSolutions  Месяц назад +4

      Beretta magazine never had that issue. Perhaps a subcontractor. My guess is the floor plate was assembled incorrectly with the baseplate upside down. Only way the floor plate can move if the baseplate is not engaged on the floor plate. Operator induced error.

    • @seniortac4175
      @seniortac4175 Месяц назад

      Mr.B....I think you sould do a xm9 style test on a M17 / M18, using all the same parameters!
      I'm more than sure some ammo company would supply ammo!
      Also, I own a Berettas, Glocks, HKs Sigs......never, repeat never had ANY issues with ANY of them.
      I'm also an Master Armorer for all aforementioned companies.

  • @printolive955
    @printolive955 Месяц назад

    While I was a Marksmanship instructor at Stone Bay NC rifle range USMC. Secretary of the Navy Ball came to SB to fire/check out the M9 when they reopened competition, in the late 80s.
    I gave him a class on the XM4 rifle and the M16A1, A2, To show the differences. I’m not sure if we had any effect on out comes. He was a good student and attentive.

  • @usmcvet0313
    @usmcvet0313 Месяц назад +1

    19x would have probably been the safest bet for an upgrade. Glock has been widely proven reliable for decades. Given the gov was offered the M9A3 for the same contract price as the original M9, that was their best option.

  • @johnm5695
    @johnm5695 Месяц назад +1

    Stanley staple gun 😂. Great video as always.

  • @wolfedudle
    @wolfedudle Месяц назад

    Your videos are the highlight of my week!

  • @Bojangles6
    @Bojangles6 Месяц назад +1

    Was there an fbi test where the ruger P series came in a close 3rd behind the m9 and 226?

  • @davidschaadt3460
    @davidschaadt3460 Месяц назад +1

    Real good program, Chris. The Beretta 92 FS, I have shoots much better than the Sig 320 that i have. Plus the stories about the accidental Sig discharges has me hesitant to carry it with a round in the chamber.

  • @edgewisefirearms1667
    @edgewisefirearms1667 Месяц назад +1

    Just curious if there is there an offical website to see the trail statics? I would like to see and read this.

    • @SmallArmsSolutions
      @SmallArmsSolutions  Месяц назад +1

      No, you need to dig for govt documents. This is history from 1985. Pre internet!

    • @edgewisefirearms1667
      @edgewisefirearms1667 Месяц назад +1

      @SmallArmsSolutions understood, thank you

    • @lon242
      @lon242 29 дней назад

      No one has ever scanned the docs? I would love to read 'em

  • @oso1165
    @oso1165 Месяц назад +1

    Langdon tactical has a few berettas with 50k rounds on them. Paul harrels m9 was over 6 figure round counts lol

  • @ted356
    @ted356 Месяц назад +1

    Good video, as usual!

  • @march2860
    @march2860 Месяц назад +1

    Talk to army armors about the high MTBF of the Barrett’s locking blocks. Rendered the pistol inop.

    • @SmallArmsSolutions
      @SmallArmsSolutions  Месяц назад +2

      You mean the third party out of spec locking blocks???

  • @mikedillon6233
    @mikedillon6233 Месяц назад +1

    I have to say that was an outstanding discussion on the two pistols that were involved in the trials back then. I agree, I really wish they had gone with the upgraded pistol As a way to save so much money It's not even funny.

  • @Patriotx-gx4ce
    @Patriotx-gx4ce Месяц назад

    Thanks for info.
    And bringing facts about testing process!

  • @FirstLast-ff7qx
    @FirstLast-ff7qx Месяц назад +3

    Me lookin at my m9 n sig m11a1
    "Now you know i love you both the same. You are my children i dont have a favorite."

  • @shuntera
    @shuntera Месяц назад

    How many units of each gun did they test. Wouldnt it need to at least, i dunno, 10 of each to avoid basing it on a single gun?

  • @boostimalaka1
    @boostimalaka1 Месяц назад +2

    An LAPD officer was able to shoot a charging knife suspect with his Beretta 92 F in 2024. Just to prove that those officers who were issued the Beretta are still using them. I know the original 147 grain hollowpoint ammunition had a terrible reputation for over penetration. An LA County Sheriff Deputy shot a robbery suspect and the bullet went through the bad guy and through the glass striking the store employee killing him. The longer barrel of the Beretta pistol is optional for most 9mm ammunition.

  • @CptFUNK1
    @CptFUNK1 Месяц назад +1

    @SmallArmsSolutions can you elaborate on why the single action only 1911 was unsafe to carry?

    • @SmallArmsSolutions
      @SmallArmsSolutions  Месяц назад

      Yes sir. The trigger mechanism was not what made it unsafe. It was the free floating firing pin. When dropped on the muzzle from 3 to 5 feet, the inertia from the firing pin was enough to set the cartridge off. The hammer never falls. We are talking about GI M1911A1 pistols not modern ones with firing pin block.

    • @CptFUNK1
      @CptFUNK1 Месяц назад

      It's funny that you bring that up since Ben Stoeger demonstrated that a Staccato 2011 is not drop safe, as it does not have a firing pin block. If I ever buy a 2011 it's going to have a firing pin block.
      Surely a firing pin block could've been added to a double stack 9mm 1911 derivative to make it drop safe (HI-Power Mk III)? Was it just the trend of the time to move away from SAO to DA/SA then? Hypothetically, a SAO version of the Beretta or Sig with a frame mounted safety (modern 92XI/P226 SAO Legion) could have been a better choice than the DA/SA version, no?
      I just find it perplexing why anyone would want two different trigger pulls in a firearm. It seems to be the prevailing wisdom today that you either have a crisp SAO trigger and deal with the drawbacks of a manual safety, or you enjoy not having a manual safety but "suffer" the longer travel and heavier pull weight of a striker fired pistol. The common theme between the two is that they are repeatable between each shot.
      Sorry for being inquisitive, but I'm a 90s baby trying to understand the 80s.

  • @wayneburton3168
    @wayneburton3168 Месяц назад

    Thanks Mike

  • @thomaswalsh5097
    @thomaswalsh5097 Месяц назад +5

    I’m sure it had nothing to do with our bases in Italy……………

  • @fredfuntheman
    @fredfuntheman Месяц назад +3

    What about the star 28

  • @lynch6642
    @lynch6642 Месяц назад +1

    Martin Riggs: open feed port, no jams

  • @chadmckinney8465
    @chadmckinney8465 Месяц назад +2

    Excellent video. I love the trial videos. The M7 rifle is the worst thing that happened

  • @jamesgunnyreed
    @jamesgunnyreed Месяц назад

    The M9 was in service throughout my entire career. I first qualified with it in as a LCpl in 1994 and continued to do so until I retired in 2012. I never experienced any failures that were pistol related. A couple stove pipes here and there. And I had one once that from time to time fire a 2 rnd burst. Which once you got used to worked great for the 2 shot drills at 7 yds in the USMC Pistol Qualification. These were all issued pistols from the armory that were used and abused hard by Marines. Hard to tell how old they were. I know some of them were damn near silver from the finish being nearly worn off. Id love to have the newer M9A4 but the price is ridiculous compared to the M18.

    • @eisenkrieg553
      @eisenkrieg553 Месяц назад

      Christ, I was born and graduated from high school in those years.