Jim Cornette on The Final Months of Jim Crockett Promotions
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
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Everytime I am having trouble falling asleep with my anxiety I turn on Corny podcasts. I can listen to him talk about whatever random shit and focus on that and it helps me focus on something else. I’ve listened to this one over and over and I always love it.
Same here brother! Thought I was the only one
There’s a lot of us out here doing the same!!!!
I knew we were many!
@@kamikokahr7679 Same here
Here too
This has to be saved in Tony Khan's watch later playlist 😂
I can listen to Jim speak all night in ear buds as I go to sleep and that's exactly what I do. What a wrestling mind he has.
Brian Norman same here man. MoF I’m doing it now. Good shit
That's the same thing I do, or I listen to observer
Scott Danielson Hloo
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same gere
Jim Cornette is the smartest and the most honest man I have ever met we did Summer SLam in Knoxville. tn in 1990 Jim is a pleasure to work with And THE Rock n Roll EXpress put on a great match.Love You JIM YOUR friend Ken Medaris,AKA KENNY HOUSTON.
I'm from Knoxville. Clinton to be exact. What's Jim up to these days?
Honest? Seriously?
"We're gonna make major motion pictures and sitcoms" yea that went well. 😂
@@danieltilson4912 Hey he told the story!
@@danieltilson4912 Here's how it went:
Homemade Shit.
Hes got a bicycle!
And that's why Dusty dumbed himself out of the wcw
@@danieltilson4912 how is that speaking ill if it’s true?
Being a booker is a thankless job, I don't care who does it. You're never going to please everybody.
Exactly.
Not only that, but the heat comes with the territory. Remember when Ric Flair was the booker of WCW business was starting to turn around but Jim Turd (as people have been calling him now) wouldn't leave Ric alone and Ric resigned as a result? Dusty's booking of the Horsemen was almost like TNA's booking of the Aces and Eights. Having them lose constantly and not win.
@@connordripps2173 He was booking himself to whoop them night after night as if they were chicken shit heals. When Tully complained about it, Dusty got butt hurt and banned him from the company plane and that inspired Tully to leave which inspired Arn to leave. Dusty also started booking Terry Taylor to lose because he was so bothered that he heard Taylor imitating his voice on the plane. Dusty was a shit booker who was all about Dusty all the time.
Are you supposed to make everyone happy or are you supposed to make money to pay everyone?
Very few people have a voice you could just listen to for hours on end. Jim has one of those voices
Being a lifelong WWWF and WWF fan I was instantly captivated when JCP finally was available on our cable system. The first thing I saw was the Rock n Roll vs The Russians for the World Tag Team title was instantly hooked and for the next several years it was awesome. Thank you Jim for recounting what went wrong. Found this video fascinating and looking back it all fits.
Mindless Droid I remember when it started on TBS up here in NY.
Living in a small regional town in country Australia, I only saw what the few stations we had were willing to show.
Didn't get WWF until 1992 and that eventually disappeared. Then it wasn't until late 1998 when WWF Superstars randomly showed up, that I started getting regular wrestling.
Never got JCP and didn't even get Turner branded WCW until 1999.
I would have loved JCP as a kid. I was born in the wrong place, for someone that ended up loving wrestling.
Btw, it took until early 2006, before any live wrestling shows even came close to my hometown. Then mid last decade they stopped coming and I've seen about 1 live wrestling event in I think 5 years.
@Tom Henesey It was it was called the World Wide Wrestling Federation.They then shortened it to WWF
Good old Channel 17 on WTBS in Boston....I always thought JCP was more real than WWF.
Wrestling was better when I didn't know everything bout everybody in the buisness
Yeah man. Lots of crazy stuff happened behind the scenes.
Jamie McVay- er, that's your fault. What a stupid statement.
Good god, if you fucking morons don't get the meaning behind his statement, then that's YOUR fault. His meaning is fairly obvious - wrestling was better when he didn't know everyone's basically an asshole that looks to stick the knife in the back at any given opportunity - with the possible exception of Mick Foley who chose to do grievous harm to himself and shorten his career (and life) by years in order to accomplish a measure of success rather than do the predatory thing. It's a hyperbolic statement, it's supposed to be taken with levity. Fucking jackasses.
I get what he's saying, before the internet told you so and so is coming to WWE, you would pop when someone big from wcw/NWA/AWA shows up
Yeah I have been reading a bunch of old Wrestling Observers from the late 80's. I am so glad I never read any of that stuff back in the day and just enjoyed the product. It would of been strange knowing that everyone hated Dusty Rhodes that JCP and WCW always lost money and the WWF did everything in its power to ruin them.
I could listen to Jim Cornette impersonating Dusty Rhodes all day long xD
The RUclips. We didn't plug the RUclips.
Corny RUclips
I was born in 1993, and Jim talking about JCP/WCW are some of the most baffling and Fascinating tales I can plug into on a work day.
I was born 80, but from Ireland so took longer for stuff to arrive on our shores so am like yalls age when comes to wrassling but I love jim's insights and knowledge
@@aidanduffy3407 1985 in Philadelphia PA WWF TERRITORY 2 o'clock all through the 80s was so awesome I was 12 years old.
Lee Grace lol your hella dumb. People born after 2000 have jobs and it surprises you someone who’s born in 93. A 27 year old having a job makes you feel old? I feel sorry for you
I love the old stories 😎 wrestling will never be that great again 😂
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The fact that the NWA in 1988 had Flair, Arn & Tully, the Road Warriors, Sting, Luger, Dusty, The Midnight Express, a consistent undercard, and Turner's money, and they STILL ended up not knowing how to turn a profit, that says so much about the absolute ineptitude of the booking and strategy to make the NWA compete with McMahon. The WWF's roster was nowhere near the same wrestler for wrestler, card to card, as the NWA. This was all poor business management.
Yep. The fall of JCP NWA had nothing to do with Vince, Dustys booking, or the accountant. The Crocketts screwed the Crocketts
1- While Vince was living middle class and flying commercial, the Crocketts spent millions on houses, vacation homes, cars, boats, and 2 jets.
2- While Dustys booking got a bit stale (it rebounded and head up during/after the Bash 1988), it was the Crocketts responsibility to reign him in or replace him.
3- Crocketts decision to kick Tully off the jet, lead to Tully and Arn leaving. The horsemen were destroyed and it damaged Dustys future plans for a turnaround after the Bash
4- The Crocketts spent about $5 million buying up closing territories. Why? They could have got the talent, arenas, and TV slots without paying anything for territories. Crockett burned through millions and had no money for a rainy day. Mr Big Shot.
5- The accountant was not to blame. Cornette spent an hour going through the attendance and gate receipts for the last year of their business. Every wrestler, manager, and worker could figure out they were losing $$$$. An accountant gives you a picture of your revenue, expenses, and net income/loss. The crocketts would get a breakdown every night, week, month, quarter, and year of their financials. The accountant did not hide it from them. Are we to believe they never knew? Never asked? Never saw their own books? Cmon!
6- Jim Crockett and Dusty had moved to Texas. Why? They leave their home base to a remote office in Texas away from everyone? They took themselves out of their own loop.
7- They had TBS Superstation to themselves. And the crocketts were still spending a fortune on syndicated TV time slots that were bleeding cash.
Jim Crockett destroyed his own company. No one else.
@@jimmyv.495
Agreed... F'ing Raccoon Eyes was the one steering the ship.....
You're overlooking the fact that Crockett spent a lot of money buying up Professional Wrestling Promotions across the South and The Midwest and ran more and more shows in other markets, his Company had never run shows and neglected The Towns where his Family had been running shows for almost 60 Years. When Fans stopped buying tickets in towns where they have been running shows for decades they were in trouble. Crockett should have just let most of those companies just go out of business and if he wanted to run shows in some cities, pick and choose.
The death of JCP was largely mismanagement but McMahon sped up what would’ve happened anyways in all likelihood. Crockett made a lot of poor financial decisions that doomed the company in the rapid effort to expand to compete with McMahon. The choice to try and compete with Vince nationally instead of focusing on what had always made you money was a bad choice. The attempt to go national so quickly without any thought out and concrete plan in doing so led to the company spreading out to run money losing shows in markets that didn’t know JCP, including the costs of expanding TV everywhere, and the lack of focus on the stage towns ranked the revenue maker.
JCP in some ways I think was the one forward thinking territory, having been in closed circuit awhile and moving to PPV, which other territories didn’t do. That’s where McMahon does play a role because the sabatouge of the PPVs was a huge hit to the company. But when you evaluate a lot of choices Crockett made towards the end it doesn’t feel like he wasn’t smart or inept but just had an issue with ego that guided decisions over being prudent.
I think ego is why he needed to make a rapid effort to go national. I think ego is why he bled money to have tv in toms of places he didn’t really need. I think ego is why they moved to the Texas offices rather than staying in the home base. I also think it’s why they pin blame on the accountant for why they didn’t know they were in the financial position they were in. Maybe they should have been told sooner but a competent owner would review your position regularly enough that it shouldn’t be some surprise out of nowhere.
@@jimmyv.495That's a GREAT breakdown. You should do one for Verne and the AWA. It's remarkable how many of the same mistakes both Verne and the Crockett's made. Too much ego and not enough common sense.
Here in Philly, I remember this sad and pathetic part of wrestling history very well. JCP went from a wrestling fan's dream to a corporate and political hot mess by 1989 by the time Turner took over.
Vince was a Savage 😂. If you air this Starcade shit your networks don't get WrestleMania. It was a shoot and all the cable companies were a bunch of marks!
Kinda wild to think about doing but I can see why networks did it at first. Big risk to not get an established PPV like WM which had just done an 8-10% buy rate which is around 400-600K buys. Hard to risk having that established success to take a chance on a new PPV. And Vince did have some backup with closed circuit. WM 3 did 450K in closed circuit ticket sales on top of the PPV sales so he was in a spot he could take the risk I think. Obviously the networks put a stop to it quickly though.
I'm amazed that Jim thought people would be bored by this. If they taught wrestling and booking in college I can imagine him giving this talk as a lecture. It's great that he was such a fastidious note-taker as well, because nobody else seems to have recorded their payoffs/match schedules in such detail.
Sh0ckmaster I'd enroll in a heart beat.
I've just realized like three weeks ago these were on youtube and I've been thoroughly enjoying listening to them at night.
I'd take a History of Wrestling class. Fun!
I'm thinking that Jimmy took detailed notes so that the bookers wouldn't try to screw him out of $.
Yes... it's good to know how things were back in the day
The fall of JCP remains, along with ECW, one of the saddest instances of a wrestling company closing down. It was the last major southern wrestling promotion to exist. Go back and look at those crowds from 85-86. Possibly the most passionate and loyal and excited crowds in any wrestling company ever. The end of JCP is a cautionary tale of what happens when the person at the top (Jim Crockett) doesn’t check his booker (Dusty Rhodes).
85futureshock
Along with happens when the person at the top figures there's nothing wrong with spending money like water.
Memphis was the last southern promotion to close. November 1997.
There's things about damn near every territory that I miss.
ECW closing was happy. ECW was crap.
Look at the craziness of going from 1986-1990.
Only a 4 year period and yet the product was night and day different along with fan support.
Truly going from 86-88 shows the massive changes but definitely so to 90 and I can’t think of any other company save for WWE from 1981-1985 that changed as drastically in such a short period of time.
Take today’s WWE.
Go back 4 years it’s the same damned product, same talent, same fans.
You can go back 8 years and save for the women’s division and NXT, it’s been the same deal with same fans and popularity.
Crockett from 1986 to WCW of 1990 is two different worlds.
I miss southern wrestling very much and especially so now that everyone wants to try and be WWE rather than deliver something different.
You can’t be or beat WWE. Stop trying to mirror their production values and attempting to copy.
I’d much rather see a gritty southern style promotion and it may become successful in a niche way and appeal to older fans but it may also be different enough that young fans weaned only on WWE may decide it feels raw and gritty and unique.
The Crockets should not have bought private jets. Period.
I'd say buying the promotions that you could have waited for the companies to die, scoop up the talent were more of a mistake than the Jets.
You couldn't tell him that he was too busy riding high and thought he would be able to recoup the money he spent.
Buying other promotions gave them the roster and local tv slots. Back then that mattered.
@@TheNanoman79 Vince and the WWF/E never had a private jet during the 80s boom. Crockett had 2. Vince never got one until after they went public in 1999.
Rob Finlay yup, Vince flew commercial well into the 90s
I can still recall it vividly. Early 1989, I was watching the 5:05 PM Saturday night program. The show that would become WCW Saturday Night a few years later. Jim Ross says that that is their final telecast from that studio. The Saturday night program was moving to Center Stage in Atlanta. It was on the eve of Clash of the Champions VI. The next afternoon was the Clash and the whole promotion had undergone a makeover. Different look, different ring, different colors. Granted, Clash of the Champions VI was incredible, however, I was a bit skeptical as to the new look of everything. And the following Saturday, when the first show aired from Center Stage, I knew right then that things had changed. The promotion was beginning to look a lot like the WWF. Wrestlers' were beginning to have that WWF look. I still watched because, even though I missed Jim Crockett promotions, I still preferred the new look WCW over the WWF and the boring ass AWA. Eric Bischoff came to town a year or so later, followed by the signings of Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage, the launching of WCW Monday Nitro, and later signing Scott Hall and Kevin Nash and changing the business forever with the nWo angle. I watched WCW after the change over from Crockett promotions, but it wasn't until the nWo angle started in 1996 that I really got excited about it again. But, NOTHING will ever compare to the JCP days.
I loved 89 WCW... 89 and even 90 had so much talent Flair , Funk , Steamboat, Muta Lex, Sting, LOD, SST, Midnights, Freebirds, Steiners, Varsity Club. It is a shame they didn't do better business that year because the product was great but from then on they were in a constant cost cutting mode. A stable booker would of done wonders for the product as well.
KP LLC totally agree with you. 89 and 90 were very good years for WCW but 1991 wasn’t. Flair leaving seemed to signal a downturn in quality.
I watched those 505 shows here in NY. I was so happy to see something other than WWF.
@robert tidwell During that period of wrestling, you didn't know what was a work or a shoot!! Great times!!
I grew up watching Georgia Championship Wrestling/WCW and love rewatching those reruns. Loved everything about the show and taking it for what it was. Looking back it's great to hear the "rest of the story" on what I think is one of the greatest periods in wrestling without a doubt. Love ya Jim! I love to hear your stories and would love your history and passion for the business!!!
Everytime I hear Corny talk like Dusty or Jim Barnett I crack up!! Never gets old 🤣🤣
Jims impression and the fact that Dusty said “Boys, this time next year we gonna be making major motion pictures, and sitcoms” is my favorite thing i’ve ever heard Corny say and that’s saying a LOT
That line is why I keep coming back to this.
@@IsaacBeImont lol no way that's the only reason lol. The line is great though.
Truly, @@scrappy93 ! I think of the 1 line and look this up and then end up listening to the whole thing.
People might be laughing at dusty thinking like that but what's crazy 20 years later vinny mac did just that movies and tv shows. With how big ric flair was hell doing a movie would have been better than literally buying nothing.
Take a shot every time Cornette says "etcetera" or "blahblahblahblah."
you wanna get real fucked up, take a shot every time "what/where/who ever the fuck"
At one point, Jim asks Brian why they moved Starrcade from Thanksgiving to Christmas that year. Neither one knew. It was because the survivor series had become a thing that year.
In 88 that's when the transition was made.
6:46-7:11 "...and Bobby just blinked." LMAO
Jim explaining the domino effect is why Wrestlemania 32 sucked. They had all the matches planned and then rewrote half the card
The card had to be rewritten because there were so many injuries. All of the Champions from Wrestlemania 31 were injured for 32 except for AJ Lee who retired and one of them (Tyson Kidd) would never return to the ring.
Fascinating stuff. I was a fan back then (and still am to this day). I loved listening to this.
If I remember correctly, WCW made a very small profit in 95 (because Hogan's contract didn't go on the WCW books), made another profit in 96, then exploded for the two big money years of 97 and 98.
This is an absolutely amazing look back into the end of the good old days.
I love wrestling but the business world is the same. Whether Its about profit, egos, people trying to get over to make $. Cornette is a smart guy. My favorite wrestling personality.
Great Dusty impersonation.
1:23
What would have happened if Dusty wouldn't have kicked Tully off Crockett's jet?
That would be the matter of if Tully didn't privately badmouth Dusty and Dusty's booking which is one of the reasons why Tully was kicked off Crockett's plane which led to Arn and Tully quitting and going to the WWF.
Do you have any stories about Paul Bosch and the Houston wrestling scene. I remember a lot of the stars wrestling there that eventually (ie. Rick Flair, Ted Debiase, etc...) went to WCW, TNA,WWF/E.
Kelvin Crabtree Bruce prichard did a whole episode of his podcast about Houston wrestling. Was pretty good
Kelvin Crabtree Ric Flair bro
Watch Back To The Territories with Jim Cornette. He did a episode with Bruce Prichard about Vince's war with Paul Boesch.
You know when you really start learning about the business and all the backstage stuff and your only a fan it kinda takes the fun out of wrestling. Specially now in today with all these wrestling news channels that tell you everything from who is dating who to who said this or who did that or last minute changes or meaning behind attire or just straight up speculating. It all just makes me regret knowing so much because now I just don't care anymore. It's the reason why I unsubbed to alot of these popular wrestling channels.
Tbh it made me like it more - just get behind different people. You learn this or that babyface is a jackass to people or something, you don’t get behind them but I find the calculus behind how a match works to be the most fascinating thing for me. It turned me from a fairweather fan to a committed one. It’s weird but it works for me. As long as people are engaged I don’t think anyone in the business gives a shit why as long as they have my money.
@@brandonp3455 I think it should be like that though, I don't think the talent should give a shit, when it comes to the talents personal lives and who actually hates who, or who said this, or who got let go, or who is being switched, I don't care for the talents personal lives. But I do agree that I love learning about how to put matches together how to take bumps and do spots, learning about the functions of what goes on inside the ring is interesting. But everything backstage is just so shitty because the politicing, it's all so pity to me. I guess it's true what they say though "ignorance is bless"
I'm in martinsville....I was 11 and 12 when they used to come to Bassett all the time. Great times.
Cornette briefly mentioned the JCP show in Oakland in August 1988 ($98,000 house at the Kaiser Convention Center, the last day of the 88 Bash tour, headlined by the Wargames). I was at that show. It was the best house show I ever attended. Ever since then, every other house show at that same facility didn't nearly draw as well (not only WCW but also when even WWF went there in 1994 and drew in attendance about a third of what the 88 Bash show drew). Cornette didn't mention about WCW returning to Oakland in January 1989, but they came back at that time at that same facility. It was headlined by both Flair vs Sting and the Bunkhouse Stampede, and the show was almost a ghost town.
Crusader7077 I was also at that 88 Bash in Oakland. Ive been to better shows from top to bottom but the war games main event was the best match Ive ever seen live.
J.R., I don't know if you'll remember me or not, but this is Jeff from way, way back at Roland's wrestling school in Hayward back in the early to mid 90s (the one collecting tapes for Roland) when you and the others used to occasionally rent out the facility. Good to hear from you.
Crusader7077 yes I remember. You taped an excellent angle of the sabu-candido match in san jose where my head got opened by the chair shot right? how ya been?
Yeah I remember that show. Also where Matt Hyson (Spike Dudley) debuted. I'm doing fine. Good to hear from you.
That's cool how 2 friends back from highschool got back in contact with each other
And if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump its ass off the ground! fucking love this guy
Reason starrcade was moved to xmas was because wwf ran survivor series in 87 and screwed up the ppv schedule and cable companies sided with them over nwa. Which sucked
nwa was too uptight and it killed them Vince won like always
Unfortunately Vince always wins.
@@danieltilson4912 the fuck does that mean
The numbers that Jim talks about for some of the house shows and tv tapings are pathetic.
Booking was rather QUESTIONABLE in 88, to say the least. Fans tuned out
Started on WWF in 78/79 DC area. Around 84/85 I flipped to a channel that barely came through and had no sound but I could see it was the Von Erichs and shit I saw in magazines only. I tried that channel repeatedly for weeks until finally channel 50 featured both NWA and UWF in the mid and late 80s. I noticed the difference immediately on a weekly basis. Wasn't too big on WWF once that took place except for a few talents they had.
You know things are bad when my hometown of Richmond doesn't draw a hundred thousand
And to think that Norfolk went from $150k to $12k after Starrcade 1988. All i got to say about that 30 years later is "Holy shit!"
Corney is great to listen to as a long time wrestling fan.
Dusty ruined it all by banning Tully from the plane because of a hurt ego about Tully not liking his booking and expressing it during a "secret" meeting. That is a tyrant move, and it started the dominos falling for Crockets collapse.
Wish I could read or listen more on this topic somewhere
Jim Cornette must have an eidetic memory. How can he remember so many details about PPV, house shows and TV tapings that happened 30+ years ago?
Because Jim has literally said on *multiple* occasions he wrote down and kept most everything he ever did in the wrestling business. The location, date, who they wrestled, who went over, how many fans were there, what the gate was and what their payment was. He has multiple books worth of information which he will refer too whenever he needs too, which is why you hear paper flipping in the background, he's flipping through his midnight express book.
Yes I believed that wrasslin was real. Some of you never experienced the riots and mayhem apparently.
Too young for when wrestlers *lived* Kayfabe. It was a different, more pure, time.
Well I mean a lot of these people weren't born until a time that wrestling was known to be predetermined
The pop in Baltimore when Luger submitted Flair was insane. Then the Dusty finish....
David Hall Don’t forget the horrendous Dusty finish at Starcade 87 with The Road Warriors.
David Hall: Yeah, imo, it's the worst instance of the "Dusty Finish".
No. It was because Luger was bleeding and Tommy Young saw it and stopped the match. Back in those days, blood was a no no.
Connor Dripps dude Flair started bleeding buckets in the seventies and did it all the way until 2010
@@connordripps1480 uhh no. Just fucking no. It was done since they were in Baltimore
Someone needs to write a book on two topics.
1) 1984: When a Sunset takes 18 months. Covers the time period from Starrcade '83 to Wrestlemania I, and how this marked the death knell of the old NWA Empire.
2) '86 - '88: Death of 100,000 cuts. Covers the time period from Magnum TA's injury to the Sale of JCP. The epilogue can cover the aftermath.
Aren't you someone?
@@johnwilburn my sentiments exactly!
Didn't Eric Bishoff cover all of that in his book Controversy Creates Cash?
As many times as I heard that particular part...Vince tells cable companies "you carry starrcade 87 instead of survivor, you cant have WM4".....THAT IS ONE HELL OF ANTI TRUST LAWSUIT. If Im claiming the right thing. Or illegal monopoly. How did Vince have that kind of power to tell any media source what to do/what not to do .....SPITE WM is a new/high spike in rating buys.
He isn't telling them what to do. He just said if you carry Starcade then he wouldn't allow them to air WM. So it was up to them if they wanted to lose out on the WM money or not. So they choose the option that give them more money. Remember, this WM was the next one after the huge record setting WM 3. The ppv companies knew this year be huge too and in no way were they gonna miss out on having that money. They would have made maybe half that money if they were lucky on carrying Starcade. Vince just made a cutthroat business move. It wasn't illegal, a dirty move yes but nowhere near illegal. And it's why Vince won in the end. Cause while those other territories were still living by the old code and rules they all agreed to with a handshake. Vince wasn't about that life and knew that with cable becoming huge, that this was the chance for one promotion to become national and air everywhere. So he did everything he could to become that and be last Man standing. He saw the future while all other owners believed business would stay the same with this guy having this area and whatnot. Before they saw the way business was going, Vince was already way ahead of the game. And if Ted Turner didn't own multiple cable companies and channels, Vince would have been the only Major promotion in America. But since Vince had pissed him off years before, he was dead set on always having wrestling to challenge him or atleast not let him be the only game in town. If it was anyone but Ted Turner, Vince would have owned all of wrestling since 89-90. Maybe a few scattered small indie promotions but nothing like WCW. And without WCW we probably never get the attitude era, NWO, Austin, Rock, shit wrestling itself probably completely dies before 2000 cause it would have never recovered from the terrible 1995-96 lowpoint. Cause without WCW to be another option for wrestlers to go to. Hogan never leaves and that means NWO doesn't exist which means WWF doesn't get it's ass in gear and copy ECW and create the attitude era and Monday night wars. So Vince should thank Turner cause his company probably dies cause he wouldn't have been able to afford to stay open with the numbers they did in 95-96. They barely held on then and luckily the wrestling boom saved them and then allowed Vince to go public with Stock and WWE becomes a billion dollar company and a global brand. WWE can afford the poor numbers these days cause they make money from so much other shit. Wasn't like that pre Monday night wars.
But whatever I still hate WWE. AEW is the show to watch. So far it's so much better. They still learning but they on their way to blwoing WWE out the water with their product. Yeah Cornette may hate it but he has hated everything since 1990. If people wanted his style of wrestling, Smoky Mountain be still around or his version of ROH would still be around. Jim just needs to understand times have changed. He doesn't have to like it, but he atleast needs to understand that old style of wrestling just doesn't sell. You can have elements of it, which AEW has, it just won't be a carbon copy of the shit he loved as a kid.
I was there in the baltimore arena that night. Some thoughts.
We loved the midnight's.
The tower of doom looked like it was going to collapse
Ron garvin heel turn made no sense
They should have had luger win it that night. Pull the trigger that night for luger and it wasn't done
@dbag0584 thanks. Had a great time. Got some good pics that night. Nice memories
I could listen to these long discussions about old territory days for hours
Did you seriously hold cards in Georgetown and Sumter, SC? Wow!! Unbelievable you could draw more than about 300-500 in those towns.
Jim does the best Dusty impression. Bar none.
I was in Philadelphia civic center all the time JCP/ NWA wrestling was in Philadelphia pa
I find these fascinating...an insight into the business you can't get anywhere else
Man by this time The Midnight had spent a ton of time together. Driving up and down the roads in Mid South, those Bash tours in '86 & '87 for JCP.. I wonder how everyone in the team got along. Surely there had to be some disagreements along the way somewhere between Corny, Bobby and Dennis.
No one can answer this question. Did The Rock&Roll Express ever go against The Road Warriors in a match ? I can not find any evidence of a match between them
They never did to my knowledge. I asked a guy who is a wrestling historian and he even said he never knew of those 2 teams facing off.
I have a really long shoot interview with the Road warriors in 2000 and the interviewer asked them and they said no
I do believe in a 4 way
The inmates were running the asylum much like wwf in the 90s that's why Vince put the stop on that horseshit and why his company has been a success. Sucks for the workers tho.
Oh you mean after the curtain call
This was glorious 😂❤
Turner switched Starrcade to Christmas in 1988 because Vince stomped on Starrcade in 1987 and JCP didn't make any money.
I know Jim Cornette was worried/self-conscious about giving too much info & going on too long.
I can only hope he might see this comment or some like it - to know that it certainly wasn’t the case. I tremendously enjoy him giving a clinic by putting a magnifying glass on these stretches of wrestling history.
A+++
"Major motion pictures and sitcoms" 😂😂😂
“If anyone wants to tear down a wrestling promotion...” 🤣
?
What Jim didn’t mention and maybe he didn’t realize. Once Arn and Tully left and the horseman’s were spilt. Was the beginning of the end for the company. The final nails was when Dusty Rhodes join the NWO and Goldberg streak ended. At that point, you watching imitators of WWE. Yes in the beginning Hogan made money for both companies in the beginning. But how much did it cost wrestling business in the end.
Big Dreamin' Dusty!
Jim Crockett Promotions was another name for Mid-Atlantic Wrestling?
I appreciate the fact that he has everything documented & can talk about everything that went on back the so 30 yrs later as an adult I can hear what I visually as a kid in the downfall of NWA.. I swear during this tome as a kid me & my cousins saw that it turned into shit
Folks didn't care for this George Scott, Jim Herd corporate booking we were forced to watch!! Ric Flair as the booker was doing good numbers but unfortunately Herd couldn't leave Flair alone and ruined that momentum.
This is so cool bringing back memories. My dad brother and sister were all big wrestling fans.
I was at the Phila Bash show, in 1988..front row for War games...and then in January, 1989 when a snow storm wrecked the show and card....
They should have ran a elite free card every night Vince had a pay-per view
This is 1987-88 deep dive omnibus part 3
Midnight express vs horse man great heel match = money
Just found this - and I can’t stop listening.
Fascinating. Grew up on WTBS Championship Wrestling. Great stuff. Miss it. And Florida Championship wrestling. Very similar.
Never had cable growing up. CBS and NBC only. WWF Only. Hearing everything I never wanted to miss is priceless!
Wrestling was so good when I was a kid in 70's and 80's when there were many territories. It was like you wonder if wrestlers from different territories could hang in other territories and then you would get wrestlers who would move through the different territories and that was always a tune in for me. All the differences were cool between all the different territories. Now you don't have any cross culture, because there's basically one territory.
Could have just had Wrassling every day of the week, divided up by the territories, and occasionally move guys from here to there. And that way, you have more house shows done simultaneously.
This is fascinating stuff. Wow, Turner paid for Hogan’s contract?? Holy heck
And hall and nash and Hart and everyone lol
That’s why the Invasion failed. They were all sitting at home getting more than Vince would ever consider paying them to come in and get pinned by Undertaker’s wife.
@@WCWThunderRosa right. I agree. Guranteed contracts are great for the wrestlers themselves but we're bad for the business and everyone who was a fan. Wwf use to pay em shit lol but they had to work and draw to get paid so effort was required imo
I think the WWE downside guarantee model was probably the best of both worlds. Wrestlers have a form of guarantee to be able to somewhat plan their life but still have ample incentive to work and draw since they share in making more money when the company makes more money. I think the set guarantee model is good for wrestlers but has obvious flaws depending on the wrestler. Not having a way to exceed the number doesn’t provide incentive to leap the card in a sense because you could rise to the main event but not make that money level. It also has risks if you have high paid veterans like WCW did who are going to be fine with sitting at home and collecting a check. Set guarantees aren’t necessarily a bad thing but depend largely on the attitude of the wrestler in whether it’ll be good or bad. A wrestler with the right attitude isn’t an issue but a wrestler content to just collect a check it brings obvious problems. But guaranteed deals weren’t new to WCW. As stated JCP had guarantees - if you didn’t have the established revenue share model like WWF did you had to provide a guarantee to compete for talent.
Ty for uploading this
I love this episode.
I can't help but feel sad listening to this story. I really wish Jim Crockett Promotions would have stayed in business and been the promotion to go up against Vince and the WWF during the Monday night wars.
I don't think that a promotion that was run by Jim Crockett would have given Vince and the WWF a 5 year head start like how the idiots who were running WCW at the time did. WCW didn't start really competing with the WWF until they signed Hulk Hogan in 94 (I think they signed him in 94, but I could be wrong). So, WCW basically gave away the years from the late 80s till 94 to Vince and the WWF.
It's sad thinking about what could have been. Who knows, maybe JCP could have survived till this day and still be competing with Vince and the WWE? I'm not sure, cause when Turner sold out, and he was no longer personally involved with TNT and TBS, the nw TV executives did not want to have wrestling on their television channels anymore. I don't know if that would have still happened because maybe a wrestling promotion that was run by competent people and not whatever the hell was going on towards the end of WCW's life (Vince Russo) would have soured the idea of still having a wrestling program on their TV channels?
Who knows what would have happened? It just would have been really nice to have a wrestling promotion that was actually interested in showing a traditional wrestling program to their fans instead of whatever the hell WCW was doing during the late 90s and their brief tenure during the new millennium. Also, it'd be REALLY nice having a traditional wrestling company that's big enough to actually compete with the WWE on TV right now! Lord knows AEW is NOT interested in showing us fans' traditional wrestling!
Something about a Southern boy saying July
Simply "when wrestling was wrestling"
One of the best podcast.
THEEEEE BEST
How I love thee, let me count the ways
I still remember a time when the Blade Runners were an awesome tag team. It's odd that after they broke up one came to Jim crocket promotions as Sting, and the other went to Vince McMahon as the Ultimate Warrior
Actually Warrior was Dingo Warrior in World Class before he jumped to WWF
Sting was called Sting in the bladerunners, his partner (ultimate warrior) was called Rock i think
They always sucked
Awesome?they were terrible and not over at all
@@smarkslowplay3512 was being sarcastic, I know they sucked lol
There is nothing better to listen to while you are relaxing than Jim Cornette talking about pro wrestling. Nothing.
I was at the Cincinnati show
I do wonder if Crockett had indeed just stuck to the territories they were big in and cut out the dumb stuff like planes and travel schedules that made no sense, as Jim and Flair plus others have said and we got the ideal JCP, whether it would not have just still ended up with one company in the end?
I feel Vince McMahon would have never given up, even against a tight, well run JCP and still ultimately triumphed or he'd have run the WWE into the ground trying.
And been out of business all the same
Jim said he was running out of air, bwahahaha!
Everyone beat Kendell Whindham
By the way is Barry Whindham brother
Really good info and he goes so thoroughly leading up that you do get a great view of what led to january
I love Cornette's stories. I could listen all day long.
lol, is Dusty doing the acid trip for anyone else?
He's dead.
wow, thank you for the obvious
Brad Nimbus , its the glasses and smirk.
A Rhodes making a rich guy shat a wrestling promotion? hmmmmm
Jim's Dusty is spot on lol!!!
curious if jim has any stories about the first manager i remember skandar akbar whose tag team OMG & Kamala were a memorable team in uwf
Wait Didn't Kamala Fight Undertaker In A Casket Match At SummerSlam (1992)
Yeah him and omg both lasted a long time after uwf was killed. The last time i seen kamala they brought him in as a squash victim for umaga. Sucked.
Why didn't Crockett bring a huge antitrust lawsuit against Vince when he blocked them out of getting their PPV aired?
texjlh same reason their organization was fucked up to begin with. They had about a dozen people in the office, Vince had hundreds.
Why is Linda McMahon the head of Trump's Small Business Administration when she helped to kill off so many small businesses?
The Dude
Rhetorical or genuine question?
The Dude because she let him grab her by the.....um.....nevermind. But seriously Vince and Trump are buddies and I bet it was a favor because she lost her political bid. Trump took care of all of his friends.
texjlh I think it's because they would have had to prove it in court. Vince was a proven sale, JCP wasn't. The ppv people would have been taking a huge risk that Vince would stop letting them show his programs if they testified against him in court.
Jim is a Hoot...
"Boys, this time next year, we gon' be makin' major motion pictures, and sitcoms." 1:22
Jim's Dusty Rhodes voice is great.
Mr. Cornette is the absolute best
Like Flair/Steamboat would have drawn half the money Hogan/Savage would.