For my Ender 3, I've made my enclosure out of MDF, cut in a local hardware store, no Ikea in my country. Painted with a fire-retardant varnish. Smoke detector on the enclosure's inside roof and an other one on the room's ceiling. Electronics, PSU and Pi3 on the outside. It gets to 50c passively heated by the bed. Motors get to 60c but they don't care, their working temperatures are upwards of 90ºc. I have great results with some local, no-name brand ABS and a few (6-8) lines of brim. With ABS you have to chose your battles, for action figures, statues, mechanical parts, basically anything with lots of twists and turns to allow the ABS to release the stress, it's great, no delaminations and rarely any warpage at the bottom. Now for something with long, tall, straight walls like a box, it doesn't do so well, even so, I've printed the Ender 3 drawer, a few layers delaminated, but I quickly fixed it with some thick ABS slurry. Edit: A little more on the motors. They are made with Class B enamel insulated wires, which can withstand up to 130c, the internal temperature of a stepper motor is around 30c more than the outside casing, so in theory one could run them up to 100c case surface temperature, but not exceeding 80c to 90c is recommend. 60-70c makes virtually no difference on the life expectancy of the motor compared to 40-50c (open air printer). Now electronics are a whole other story, a study made on car's electronics in different climates, found that for every 10c over 20c ambient, the electronics life expectancy is halved, so 30c get's around 50% life span, 40c is 50% of 50%, therefore 25% the original 20c life, and so on and so forth. Even so, many people live in hot climates, and are still able to have their TVs, Stereos, electronics in general work for 10+ years, so I wouldn't leave the electronics inside a 50c enclosure for sure, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get perfect airflow so every single degree of heat generated by the board get exchanged to the outside air, specially because there is a point where the dust introduced will be more harmful than the few degrees of heat.
Surprised to see that you got the poor results you did. I print a decent amount of ABS for functional parts using my Ender3 in a dodgy cardboard box enclosure, and while not perfect, the results are more than acceptable/useable. A few observations: 110c on the bed is too hot (imo). You're above the glass transition temperature for ABS, so in theory your lower layers will always stay soft, which will exacerbate warping/peeling. FWIW, I have initial temp at 100c to help adhesion, which then drops to 90c. You're much better off printing with a brim. They're annoying, but they help stop ABS corner peeling a lot. In an enclosure, don't be afraid of using the part cooling fan for ABS (despite everyone mindlessly parroting that you shouldn't). It helps print quality a lot. The quality issue on the corners of the print @8:15 is due to the part overheating, and some fan will fix that. Just don't go overboard on fan speed % or you'll hurt layer adhesion (as in part strength, not cracks). Lastly, honestly chuffed to see my external electronic box "thing" (@13:00) in one of my favourite RUclipsr's videos 😁 Progress on version 2 has been stuck in design failure and redesign hell for ages, and now parts for test printing are being delayed by Corona, but it's nearly done: i.imgur.com/T5ELZFu.png
@@Bryan-Hensley You're right. You'd be surprised how many people don't know that different colors have different ir emissivity. Color has nothing to do with heat, additives do. It's a complicated piece of engineering as even two ideal visually identical colors can have different thermal characteristics.
@@purduephotog Years ago, I was a foreman/mold tech for an inection molding firm. Shortly after I did some of the same work in extrusion blow molding. With both I found the same issues with melt/form characteristics changing only because of the color. Materials science is certainly an interesting study to be sure. Also, getting into 3d printing last year (only been at this about six months) I found out really quickly why people tend to stay with the same filament brands and certain color bands. Once you got it dialed in the results are amazing. Changing color/brand you can find yourself right smack in the middle of tweaking hell to get back to the quality you had previously.
I’ve had the Ender 3 enclosure since released, however it is used only to keep the dust off whilst not in use. I’ve always left the enclosures windows open while printing. My printer is now always clean and looks a whole lot neater sitting in my office
I have both versions of the Prusa/IKEA Lack enclosures as well as the Creality soft enclosure. I like the Lack enclosures for aesthetics. However, I prefer the Creality soft enclosure for printing ABS. I will move my printer into the soft enclosure just to print ABS. I use a textured build plate and only use glue on smaller parts. I did find that I had to turn on the part cooling fan (usually off with ABS default settings). I really think this video is worth revisiting. I truly love printing with ABS in the Creality soft enclosure. The Lack enclosures do not seal enough to print ABS (IMO). I have a Prusa i3 MK3s and an Ender 3.
I have the ender 3 pro with the creality box. It helped my prints not warp due to breeze from my window. I run it with the top port open. The lcd screen would screw up from overheating after awhile so I moved the electronics outside it. Been running like a champ since, wouldn't want to print without it.
Excellent video. I'd been thinking "Why had no-one created pop-up 3D printer enclosures with a rubber seal around the base to stick it to the tabletop?" - something along the lines of the mini greenhouse material would work and also be cheap. These things should cost no more than $30. Not $150+ but this was an excellent demo. I don't print with ABS but my friend in India does and he has ambient temp up to 30deg if the Air Conditioning goes off. He achieves non warping using an ABS solution applied to the build plate.
Due to living in the pacific nw, all my filament is in a dehydrator when in use. I recycle the heat generated from the dehydrator into my enclosure which house two Ender 3’s that now only run ABS. The dehydrator alone keeps ambient temps around 35c, and with both printers running temps peak around 55c. I do use a textured pei sheet from TH3D. Over all I’ve had great success, and have almost no issues with abs anymore. I did have to replace all custom parts in the printer with abs/nylon due to temps and this summer I plan on moving the power supplies outside of the enclosure. my two access doors are also easily removable for air flow when summer hits, and I have fans installed in strategic places to either draw air out or move air in from a cooler source to help maintain temps.
I have been using the Creality enclosure for 2 months. I have all my electronics inside with an added pi, camera, and LED lights. I'm not concerned about heat on the components or electronics as their operating temperatures can withstand much higher heats than I experience or even reported in this video. Due to my ambient temperature my enclosure is heated to about 30c. Most laptops and ATX cases are going to heat soak their components significantly more than this enclosure even at 50c. With the creality enclosure I have the best layer adhesion and never experienced warping.
I've been using one for a little over a month I can't see myself printing without one ':D The regulated temp is just awesome. It's getting winter now and my prints were starting to suffer with warping when the first couple of dips in celsius happened I just have the screen wired outside of the enclosure. Planning to get the sonic pad soon soon You can also lowkey use the enclosure as a dryer box XD
Like always, thank you for your video. I went for another route for my CR10. I build up an enclosure from scrap plywood a friend gave me. I fitted polyester 10mm thick on the inside, printed some hinges and locks, used a polycarbonate front door. The enclosure is fitted on a frame of construction wood, on wheels for moving it in my workshop. I found a cheap car thermometer in Aldi to monitor the temperature. In addition, i attached a smoke detector on top, just in case... As the plywood was so ugly (from shipping boxes), I covered the whole setup with survival golden covers. It looks now like a moon lander. i get many questions from my friends ;)
Great video as usual. I made my enclosure out of metal from an old head board and 3D printed parts for my Ender 3 pro. I covered it with heavy duty PVC normally used to cover garden furniture as it's designed to bit quite a high temperature. I've made it tall but left the top open. I know it won't maintain the temperature unaided but my ABS printing is now floorless and the bed can be dropped down to 105C for 1st layer then 90 for the rest of the print. Before the enclosure I was getting warping and delamination with the same rolls of filament. Works awesome considering cost me about 8 pounds with a bit of up-cycling.
I had DIY enclosure from PVC pipes and car sunscreen, did cost me like 4$ to make. It kept up to 40c. I did use brim for ABS parts most of the time. I never had a problem with electronics. At the moment I am working on a new enclosure. It's an old dishwasher. Basically full steel enclosure, and also made wheels so I can slide the printer like a drawer whenever I want out of the enclosure to level the bed. I am already printing in it for a few days, will mount it on the wall tomorrow.
Good video and testing. Was surprised about the outcome. Some of my own observations of working with ABS using Zortrax M-200. Using their own branded ABS filament and the stock settings I have had some really bad failures, constant warping and delamination. The way I have managed to overcome this is by in their software I switch to external material and crank up the heat settings all the way up (290C nozzle, 105C bed) and the printer sits inside a cabinet which is not in anyway airtight (quite a bit of gap on the door). Now there is only minimal warping with large prints at the bottom, sometimes not at all, but most importantly the printer never fails and the objects come out as they should. I think a big part of why Zortrax performs best for ABS is the perforated plate and using a good raft on the models. As the raft deposits itself inside the perforations it can mechanically withstand the pulling forces and the long time baking in 100+ degrees will normalize the plastic eventually relieving the part of the stress forces. I've noticed that when using ABS the raft is easy to peel off leaving a nice bottom surface on the model, unlike PLA which always ends up melting the raft into the model.
The ideal chamber temperature for ABS and ASA is 85 degrees C.. The main reason I would like a chamber is to shield from drafts.. My prints come out great with an 85 degree bed 250 nozzle on blue tape with ASA.. Little to NO warp at all but you have to use 0% fan except when bridging and block off any and all drafts with an ambient room temp of around 72 degrees F or higher.
Have had no issues with the creality enclosure running on an upgraded ender 3 for a few months. The printer does have the electronic box and power supply relocated outside the enclosure.
Wow yeah. I was just about to do this. I have an ender 5, so the wham bam doesn't fit. I may have to steal your ender 5 design. Saves me $90 on the creality thing, tho! Thanks!
All the parts are on Thingiverse. I'm about to refine the design to use cork instead of acrylic on several surfaces and also seal up the top sides more to prevent drafts.
@@TeachingTech That sounds like a good idea. Have you any concerns over printing ABS (or PET/ASA/etc.)? And what is even adequate ventilation? I'm eyeing the nimble, and that'll mean I need to print new mounting bits around my hotend, so PLA isn't really the best way to go. PETG or ABS, or something with a higher temp factor, but I'm concerned that I might breath things that are bad for me. Thanks for doing all this!
I use to use a similar setup with my Wanhao i3, but then found out about cura's draft shield, since then I just use ABS slurry and a raft and get decent prints 90% of the time.
I've been using a mostly stock Ender 3 in the Creality box all winter without any issues. I only print PLA and PETG and its winter here in Washington so my results are not really comparable to the tests Michael ran. I actually like the pipe frame and have made a camera mount, tool holder and filament guide for it. I use it in the house and out in the garage for longer overnight prints. Guess I'll see how it behaves in the summer. If nothing else, it's great for keeping the printer clean and containing the fumes. Also... the Creality enclosure goes on sale frequently, I got my mine in November for $49.
I've got an Ender 3 V2 with the larger Creality enclosure. While I print PLA rather than ABS and thus have a lower hotend temperature, I print on a 60℃ bed and have never had my steppers heat up like that, even after a 36 hour print. Assuming my chamber thermometer is accurate, I believe I was a bit over 60℃ at the crossbar (it's been a while so I'm not sure, but that's a typical temperature). Of course my chamber volume is significantly larger, but that doesn't seem to come into play given my temperatures. Decades ago I was a submarine electrician, and the rule of thumb for temperature was if you can't hold your hand on it for 10 seconds there's a problem. I don't recall ever touching a properly functioning motor or panel that approached that limit. Now I know little about steppers, but immediately painful to the touch can't be good! Have you checked your stepper current settings? When I first set up my printer I found a sample configuration file (supposedly for the Ender 3) that set currents to 800 mA for the axes and 1000 for the extruder. Fortunately, I brushed my Y stepper with my fingers as I was switching off the printer after my first test print. It was way too hot so I did a bit of research and set the axes to 580 and the extruder to 650. Everything printed great the no more hot steppers.
Great test here Michael. I was actually contemplating buying the Creality model for my Ender 5. Thanks to your testing results I think I will keep the money in my pocket and pass on it for now.
I've had excellent results with the WhamBam enclosure, printing PETG in a drafty environment on my Ender 3. With 235 nozzle, 75 bed, with blue tape on the bed surface, and printing on a raft. I've gotten amazing prints that just didn't seem possible before I got the enclosure, and it is consistent enough for me to consider switching to PETG entirely. I'm still doing experiments to see if I can eliminate the rafts and save on the small amount of filament used for them. For $100, the WhamBam enclosure is totally worth it to me as an experimentation platform for moving beyond PLA -- looking forward to more exotic filaments next.
I use a low CFM fan in my diy enclosure to keep it from getting too hot. I believe the better goal is to keep temperature fluctuations around the printer, such as breezes and drafts. Thank you for sharing.
@@noway8233 Yes, Ender 3. I printed a hinge (from thingiverse) and made a door as well. I used plastic film to make the windows. For an Ender 3 the size should be at least 53cm x 58cm x 53cm.
Thank you for the video. I didn't know these enclosures even existed. I have a MK3S and a Ikea Lack DIY enclosure in my living room. I think this is pretty usual setup. Can you make a video about enclosures and air filtration? That could help a lot.
I have the creality one for the ender3 with unstable temp in my basement it works perfect it stays at a stable 32 degrees celsius I even notice better prints so I ordered one for my ender 5 plus.
Great video except[t one thing that was misquoted. The Prusa Lack enclosure does not move the electronics outside of the enclosure. Only the power supply is relocated.
- Steppers will be fine - Of course any other electronics aside from the steppers should be moved outside of the enclosure, there's a good reason why manufacturers recommend active cooling for stepper drivers for example. - There's no indications on how long you waited before launching the prints with passive heating and given the internal temps I assume you didn't wait, which would play a role in how conclusive your test would be. - Your active heating will only cause problems, ABS needs stable temps to print properly. Here you have creating air movements which will be worth than printing in open air in a closed room. This test doesn't seems to be thought through: - If your internal temps are going down during the print, then it means there's an issue with the enclosure or the setup. Seeing that, you should have stopped and tried to fine the source of the temps drifting down. - It's a well know fact that sensors (except endstops) will be affected by heat so you should have addressed that before testing, as there's obviously an issue with your first layers on both the Prusa and the Ender. - Same goes with not addressing the PLA parts on the Ender. I love your video but I don't think you should release content with incomplete or wrong test procedures.
Thank you for this great video. I almost wanted to buy the Creality enclosure for my Ender3 pro. The biggest problems I have are with ABS not with PLA. Most of the problems accure when there is an airflow around my printer due to draft.
I have the Creality enclosures for both my CR-10 V2 and my Ender 3Pro and I have never had an issue. I added some cheap temperature/humidity sensors that I got from Amazon and humidity gets down to 10% when I am printing ABS or PETG. I actually use it to dry my other filaments while I a printing. The hottest I ever seen the enclosure was 40C.
your results are kind of weird, my ender 3 enclosure has ambient temp of around 40 and my abs prints come out with little warping. Maybe try turning bed temp to 110c.
I have the Creality one and it's great for keeping dust off but as for printing it's been very hit or miss. Once I upgraded the extruder to Creality's own aluminium one instead of plastic the filament started to snap too because the stepper under the extruder got hot and the aluminium conducted the heat! softening the filament enough during retractions to deform it.
Have been using my CR-10S Pro in one of the Creality pop up enclosures for a few months now. Generally only print ABS, and more recently, PETG. Previously, i'd used a cardboard box to print ABS. I've had absolutely zero issues (previously i'd experienced warped prints in cardboard box), and my ABS parts are near perfect. It took quite a bit of experimentation to get my z offset right, but once it is, print failures have been practically nil.
This was super useful. I'm in the process of enclosuring my ender 3, and i've been thinking a lot about the effects on the various components. One should maybe try and ciculate the air(move the hot air from the top down to the bottom) of the creality enclose. The temperature gradient inside that tall chamber is probably several degrees. Maybe even tenths. Super nice with these semi-scientific approaches.
I have no room in my house to keep my printer so it is kept in the garage (small house, too many kids). I built my own enclosure for my Ender 3. The enclosure is both heated and has an exhaust fan (when it gets too hot). I use the OctoPrint Enclosure plugin to keep the internal temperature regulated and I am getting awesome results (as compared to printing without it). I also need the enclosure because every time the garage door was opened I would have layer adhesion issues due to the draft. In fact, I could tie the bad layers back to the door open time (I am using Amazon key and have a log of when the door opens and closes). The few times I have brought my printer into the house, I do not use the enclosure and get awesome prints. In my case, the enclosure was necessary because I have less control over the ambient conditions around the printer.
I got the Creality Large enclosure-Printer ender 3 V2 With MicroSwiss direct drive and metal hotend...All this combine with E-sun Pla+ bed 60, Nozzle 235...Automatic jam after 30 mins of prints(No ventilation in the enclosure)
My wife bought me the Creality one thinking it might keep the cat away from my prints. Come to find out that enclosing the printer can raise temps and fail PLA prints. Further, it gets in the way of working with the printer and my Ender-3 S1 has to be rotated annoyingly and barely fits. So, after pulling it out to add the LED kit, I think I'll leave it out until such time as it warrants enclosing.
I built the Lack enclosure (Prusa style) for my Ender 3. Prints with PETG work great inside the enclosure, prints with PLA are constantly failing - both with the Ender3 hotend (with Direct Drive Mofification) and with the Hemera. The reason for this is that the filament path gets too warm and then at some point the filament becomes deformed and is no longer transported. So I always have to print PLA with open doors. (I have not tried ABS yet)
I use the larger Creality enclosure for my CR10S Pro and I found I had to bump first layer extrusion all the way to 122% to get good adhesion. From there, it seems to work fine. One tip is I leave the door open to check the first layer is going down well, then close it up once I'm sure it's ok. I don't run the printer 24/7, but so far it seems to be holding up. I'm not sure how to know if the steppers are failing due to heat.
cooling fan 20-50% when printing enclosed ABS. 50c enclosure temperature. If you can't get to or maintain that heat use a 120mm case fan spare heated platform (perhaps one left behind after a printer was upgraded) and spare power supply to cobble together an additional heat source. Use the fan to "cool" the spare print bed spreading the heat throughout the enclosure. if you want to get fancy about it you can add a pi, and have it turn off and on depending on enclosure temp. Also ABS prefers a .06mm nozzle.
Interesting findings! I honestly thought it would have been a net positive result, but apparently not so. I may build an enclosure for my CR-10S, at some point for printing Nylon and this has given me some ideas. Thanks for the testing!
Currently trying to print the parts for my Voron on a cardboard enclosed Monoprice ultimate(Duplicator 6/Zortrax clone). Sadly I printed a hotend mount out of PLA which finally failed after about 15 hours of printing. The more I venture into printing ABS and Nylon the more I'm glad I ordered a Voron 2.4 kit. Now if they could ship the thing.
Nasa did it. But used halogen bulbs instead of infrared. Here is the article. www.3d4makers.com/blogs/news/turning-a-desktop-3d-printer-into-a-high-temperature-printer#:~:text=The%20NASA%20team%20made%3A,to%20withstand%20the%20higher%20temperatures.
That was great! I've struggled to get even reasonable layer adhesion with ABS on my Ender 3 so I made a box using foam insulation from a building supplier, a small window door using plexiglass and coating the inside with aluminized bubble wrap - got temps inside to over 65 °C using just the heated bed. This also reduced power consumption considerably. Warping improved but the print failed after an hour when the extruder stopped working - I traced it to the driver chip on the stock mainboard, tried to replace the chip with a rework heat gun and failed - the solder pads are just too small to place accurately, and couldn't get the driver to work again. I ended up buying an SKR Mini E3 to replace the mainboard, which arrived yesterday. So from my experience, cooling the electronics and PSU is important, so I will make some ventilation pipes to connect the intake fans to ambient air. I think the steppers can handle fairly high temps up to 100 °C, but will also consider using an aquarium pump and silicon tubing to try to draw some heat away from them. The quest for a decent ABS print continues....
a chip will drift into place by itself given that there's enough solder and flux for it to do so; i've soldered many tiny parts (including BGAs with 0.5 mm balls) with success. a microscope may be a necessity though
@@ikbendusan I know, I tried, but was really tough especially with so much copper in the board drawing heat away, and I can't be sure that the heat didn't damage the chip or surrounding components. Maybe the oven would work better. At least the other channels still work, so could be useful to use for a plotter or spares. Anyway, have new board now.
Thanks for the videos! When printing with PETG the layer adhesion seems strong enough that parts don't split, but they can warp away from the print surface and fail that way. I've found that a brim and 25C semi-enclosed (reduced drafts) is enough to stop this happening. (From the research papers PETG looks to have the lowest figures for released nano particles, so along with the mechanical properties it seems the smartest choice to print with.) The oversized hood enclosure I made is open at the bottom with its walls starting just below bed level, so all the electronics under the printer are outside, and it traps the warm air in above the build plate similar to a balloon. Printing on green PET tape stuck to glass helps with PETG adhesion and allows for 40C bed temp on smaller parts and 60C on larger ones; no need for any glues etc. The technique for printing PP filament on packing tape was applied, which is also made of the selfsame plastic. There is a recent video by Nerys on a sort of 'topology hack' to print complex multi-walled parts with vase mode. This has helped a lot with designing things for PETG printing (usually 1.2mm line single/double wall parts) so there is little to no retraction / travel - definitely recommend watching it. Lastly, I saw a welding video about how correct order of welds when fabricating a frame helps stop it warping. Maybe slicers could do something like that for printing ABS etc, where they extrude layers in a particular pattern/order to help equalise the cooling of the part? Or a thicker wall/infill on the inside of external corners to retain heat a bit better (if that's what would help).
Considering this is meant to do higher temp filaments closer to 300 degrees C I’m. It sure why this test was done at all? Only the s1 pro for ender is made to handle up to that temp and the screen actually detaches and is placed outside of the enclosure while printing
I actually don't have that many issues but I have the comgrow version of the creality one occasionally I have abs warping issues but runs very well would like to construct one that take my psu and electronics out but these fit on my work bench for now a redesign will come later
For my (heavily modified) ender3 pro I have a cardboard box (+insulation etc.) to put over, with an extra fan that blows onto the heating plate with a sensor in the case, and marlin configured to use that as the heater. takes a while but due to very good insulation works quite fine.
Tip, use a cheap baby monitor inside that connects to your wifi. I just watch everything from my phone anytime anywhere as long as you have internet signal.
You shouldn't use flexible bed layers when printing warp sensitive material. The forces on the bed are massive and will bend the flexible bed for sure, causing the print to come off early. I use a glass bed for printing ABS and PC on my modified Ender-3 Pro (PT-100 sensor, direct drive) and preheat the bed for10 minutes. When printing, a large towel over the printer setup is enough to retain heat and prevent draft. Using 3DLac adhesive and a brim for perfect prints without warping.
You know, these are some pretty simply made enclosure. I think you could easily make these with just a few PVC pipes, some aluminized bubble wrap, and 3D printed connectors. That's maybe $20 to $30 at Home Depot 🧐
Free option: I used corflute to make a box (old election placards), lined it with bubble wrap, and created a lid with a thermal blanket (the cheap silver one) as seal. For asa it's fantastic but printing with a raft is almost essential.
This heated chamber piece is something Statasys have (had? expired?) a patent on, in particular whereby the motors and other moving mechanical components are outside the chamber. The machine I saw had a thermally insulated (as far as reasonable) slot through which the bed gantry moved, allowing the Z axis lead screw and motor to be outside the heated chamber (this being a printer where X and Y are at the top, not the style of the Prusa and the Ender 3 where the bed itself travels in Y). Interesting to see these simpler and cheaper solutions failing, so perhaps Stratasys are onto something with their designs! Keeping all the electronics, PSU, motors, and filament outside the heated chamber would naturally seem to be a sensible necessity - especially for cheaper electronics that aren't rated to operate in higher ambient temperatures. It would be interesting to take temperature measurements directly on the motor driver chips, which are likely specified for narrower temperature ranges. Those heat sinks may struggle to dissipate the heat from the drivers in a higher temperature environment.
I think this is the patent - patents.google.com/patent/US6722872B1/en - current expiry end of Feb 2021. Key piece is from the abstract I think is this, "The motion control components (18, 20) of the apparatus (10) are external to and thermally isolated from the build chamber (24). A deformable thermal insulator (132) forms a ceiling of the building chamber, allowing motion control of the dispensing head (14) in an x, y plane by an x-y gantry (18) located outside of and insulated from the build chamber (24)"
thank you Michael for your in depth review and informative testing. Its crazy that you couldnt get ABS to print well on any of your 3 machines, we print almost daily with ABS with great success. Maybe it realy is your filament? We use eSun for great quality to price, and get great results. A few tips: if you heat your bed to 110-120 you can achieve a 40°C temp in a short time and hold it there for the length of the print with no external heater needed. Maybe it was the drop in temp that destroyed your prints? We dont recommend using with internal electronics at over 50°C , and the Wham Bam HotBox has that built in, just open the top vent port to allow some hot air to escape when it starts to rise over 45° C. You can also print the feet on thingiverse to raise the HotBox off the ground by a bit allowing cool air to stay around lower electronics and the heat will stay trapped above. I do hope that you can get the results you are looking for and are able to see the advantages of printing in an enclosure soon! thanks
I personally think it was bad filament as well. I print abs on my prusa with no enclosure for small prints. The key is to shield the drafts from the print. I believe the air moving from the hair dryer negatively impacted the situation. Abs is tricky to get to stick on the first layer in my opinion. I would like to see Michael Try again with different filament and some sort of bed adhesive. I bet there will be noticeable difference of enclosure vs no enclosure. But btw I like the convenience of the wham bam. Looks much easier to use!
Ps. I think with better bed adhesion it will show that the enclosure prevents delamination. Any print that isn't adhered well on the first layer will warp pla petg. abs. Give us a part 2 Michael! ;)
I have my Ender 3 in the Creality enclosure down in my cold basement. I’ve never had a problem printing with PLA. I’m also using the Creality glass bed - would that make a difference?
I would be interested in seeing a follow up that examines your results after swapping all PLA parts for PETG or similar. Additionally, I would love to know your opinion on using enclosures to isolate any microplastic or dust given off by a printer and vent it out via a duct to an exterior window.
Hi, I thought it might be interesting to see a comparison between a pteg item printet in a heatet inclosure, and one printet outside, I am thinking strengt test.
Interesting stuff, the steppers getting hot isn't that big a deal - generally they'll have insulation class H windings, so they can get seriously hot before the insulation is significantly degraded.
ive ordered a 4max pro ( cheap enclosed printer ) to do big flat abs parts. fingers crossed it does the job because i havent had great success with my own attempts enclosing my tevo tornado
Enclosure only worked for me when i used abs juice, otherwise I had those same problems you were having. Without the enclosure though, I couldn't print anything over 20mm tall or 100mm in diameter without it warping.
Received my Creality Enclosure for my Ender 5 last Friday. Been printing successfully using ABS filament with the Creality Enclosure for about 5 straight days now. I didn't have any of the issues you are having. Really strange that you had this kind of issue with your Creality Enclosure. But I do have concerns about keeping the electronics inside the enclosure for long period of time.
I bought the Creality enclosure to try and keep my office cooler since the Ender 3 Pro is in my office and running it constantly does increase the temperature. But I guess now that we are into winter I could in theory pack it away. :)
for ABS prints i have open UP printers that print flatter- by printing extra hot, i assume this allows the ABS to cool down slower with less internal stress
was just hovering over the buy button for the crealtity box and saw ur video so thanks for that i will not be gettng it my prints come out great in a cool basement so why tamper wiht resaults thanks!
I'm using IPA to clean build surface of ender 3 at work with it's fake buildtak and my colleague questioned that, he says that there might be some special coating that might be dissolved by IPA, is that true?
Thanks for this. I'm likely going to be purchasing an Ender 5 and your design for a heated chamber for that looks like it might be the way to go. I'll definitely be printing any upgrade parts for it in PETG instead of PLA to hopefully let them handle the heat until ABS versions could be made.
This is an incredibly useful video. I hope you study these enclosures more; I think there are still things to learn. One thing that might be interesting to find out is is what happens when you add either passive or active cooling to the stepper motors. I see that there are really simple heat sinks that you can add to a stepper motor that just attach with thermal tape; also, I have seen some that use a fan. How well do these work inside an enclosure?
Thanks for the review, really helpful. Do you have any opinions on ventilation and ABS? Every google search i do on the topic of ABS toxicity is terrifying.
I can't bring myself to read them. I worked with ABS and every other variety of polymer/copolymer on the market years ago and throw in MEK and Acetone with it for cleaning, etc.... Very little to no safeguards in place. Either my genetics will prove to roll me through or I'll be gone before 70. Who knows? The funny thing is I remember a smell from ABS but it wasn't offensive, just strong.
I was thinking of getting myself the creality one, but not for printing ABS, since I don't do that often, but rather for catproofing it, as enough of my cats fur got inside the box for the PCB that it fried the board, i didn't notice beforehand and replaced the board, is there something else I should buy to pretect the printer?
"PLA Part warping from the heat", LOL, try ABS, I found out really quick I needed to re-print all my add-ons. DOH! Like the video however, thanks for the good work.
As always it was very interesting ! Can I make a suggestion ? The way you did the graphs we can't compare them directly. I would have used 1 color for one combination (for example blue for ender 3 + ender 3 enclosure). I would have then use solid lines for electronics temp, dotted for bed temp, etc. That way I would have directly compared the results: Ender 3 without enclosure vs with Wham Bam vs with Creality. Passive vs active, etc.
i bought a enclosure from amazon that "fits" the ender 3. Wasnt badly priced. It was decently built and had the correct cutouts. Its even had a small acrylic box to build and install your power supply into outside the enclosure. My only complaint was that the cabling seems a little short for the cutout provided. As far as prints.....I had the same struggle you did and wondering if I wasted money
so you didn't achieve at least one non-warped print using three separate enclosures and one of the better prints came from a printer outside of a closure? Is ABS this difficult to print with to achieve a non-warped print? Maybe we could have a video on how to achieve the perfect ABS print.
I’m really surprised you don’t address the hazards of VOCs and particulates looking for at one of these enclosures with the idea of using a fan to pull in fresh air and exhaust through a respirator particulate filter.
It's not the bed - it's the inductive sensor. Detected distance of an inductive sensor changes depending on temperature. The P.I.N.D.A. 2 has an internal temp-sensor to conpansate, but it has to be calibrated - and as nobody seems to do so, conpansation is mostly turned off. So If you put an mk3 into an enclosure, do a firstlayer calibration with the chamber heated up. Else your First Layer will be wrong distance from the bed and so not stick optimal. Has nothing to do with the surface of the bed, only with the ABL in higher temp envirement.
For my Ender 3, I've made my enclosure out of MDF, cut in a local hardware store, no Ikea in my country. Painted with a fire-retardant varnish. Smoke detector on the enclosure's inside roof and an other one on the room's ceiling. Electronics, PSU and Pi3 on the outside. It gets to 50c passively heated by the bed. Motors get to 60c but they don't care, their working temperatures are upwards of 90ºc. I have great results with some local, no-name brand ABS and a few (6-8) lines of brim.
With ABS you have to chose your battles, for action figures, statues, mechanical parts, basically anything with lots of twists and turns to allow the ABS to release the stress, it's great, no delaminations and rarely any warpage at the bottom. Now for something with long, tall, straight walls like a box, it doesn't do so well, even so, I've printed the Ender 3 drawer, a few layers delaminated, but I quickly fixed it with some thick ABS slurry.
Edit: A little more on the motors. They are made with Class B enamel insulated wires, which can withstand up to 130c, the internal temperature of a stepper motor is around 30c more than the outside casing, so in theory one could run them up to 100c case surface temperature, but not exceeding 80c to 90c is recommend. 60-70c makes virtually no difference on the life expectancy of the motor compared to 40-50c (open air printer).
Now electronics are a whole other story, a study made on car's electronics in different climates, found that for every 10c over 20c ambient, the electronics life expectancy is halved, so 30c get's around 50% life span, 40c is 50% of 50%, therefore 25% the original 20c life, and so on and so forth. Even so, many people live in hot climates, and are still able to have their TVs, Stereos, electronics in general work for 10+ years, so I wouldn't leave the electronics inside a 50c enclosure for sure, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get perfect airflow so every single degree of heat generated by the board get exchanged to the outside air, specially because there is a point where the dust introduced will be more harmful than the few degrees of heat.
Surprised to see that you got the poor results you did. I print a decent amount of ABS for functional parts using my Ender3 in a dodgy cardboard box enclosure, and while not perfect, the results are more than acceptable/useable.
A few observations:
110c on the bed is too hot (imo). You're above the glass transition temperature for ABS, so in theory your lower layers will always stay soft, which will exacerbate warping/peeling. FWIW, I have initial temp at 100c to help adhesion, which then drops to 90c.
You're much better off printing with a brim. They're annoying, but they help stop ABS corner peeling a lot.
In an enclosure, don't be afraid of using the part cooling fan for ABS (despite everyone mindlessly parroting that you shouldn't). It helps print quality a lot. The quality issue on the corners of the print @8:15 is due to the part overheating, and some fan will fix that. Just don't go overboard on fan speed % or you'll hurt layer adhesion (as in part strength, not cracks).
Lastly, honestly chuffed to see my external electronic box "thing" (@13:00) in one of my favourite RUclipsr's videos 😁
Progress on version 2 has been stuck in design failure and redesign hell for ages, and now parts for test printing are being delayed by Corona, but it's nearly done: i.imgur.com/T5ELZFu.png
I bought a fan/heater/blower combo to hear for abs. Just need to add charcoal for aroma...
@@Bryan-Hensley You're right. You'd be surprised how many people don't know that different colors have different ir emissivity. Color has nothing to do with heat, additives do. It's a complicated piece of engineering as even two ideal visually identical colors can have different thermal characteristics.
@@purduephotog Years ago, I was a foreman/mold tech for an inection molding firm. Shortly after I did some of the same work in extrusion blow molding. With both I found the same issues with melt/form characteristics changing only because of the color. Materials science is certainly an interesting study to be sure. Also, getting into 3d printing last year (only been at this about six months) I found out really quickly why people tend to stay with the same filament brands and certain color bands. Once you got it dialed in the results are amazing. Changing color/brand you can find yourself right smack in the middle of tweaking hell to get back to the quality you had previously.
I’ve had the Ender 3 enclosure since released, however it is used only to keep the dust off whilst not in use. I’ve always left the enclosures windows open while printing. My printer is now always clean and looks a whole lot neater sitting in my office
I have both versions of the Prusa/IKEA Lack enclosures as well as the Creality soft enclosure. I like the Lack enclosures for aesthetics. However, I prefer the Creality soft enclosure for printing ABS. I will move my printer into the soft enclosure just to print ABS. I use a textured build plate and only use glue on smaller parts. I did find that I had to turn on the part cooling fan (usually off with ABS default settings). I really think this video is worth revisiting. I truly love printing with ABS in the Creality soft enclosure. The Lack enclosures do not seal enough to print ABS (IMO). I have a Prusa i3 MK3s and an Ender 3.
I have the ender 3 pro with the creality box. It helped my prints not warp due to breeze from my window. I run it with the top port open. The lcd screen would screw up from overheating after awhile so I moved the electronics outside it. Been running like a champ since, wouldn't want to print without it.
Excellent video. I'd been thinking "Why had no-one created pop-up 3D printer enclosures with a rubber seal around the base to stick it to the tabletop?" - something along the lines of the mini greenhouse material would work and also be cheap. These things should cost no more than $30. Not $150+ but this was an excellent demo. I don't print with ABS but my friend in India does and he has ambient temp up to 30deg if the Air Conditioning goes off. He achieves non warping using an ABS solution applied to the build plate.
"IT'S NOT A GROWTENT, DAD!!!".
I appreciate the thorough testing and the honesty when it comes to reporting things that went wrong. Thanks!
We have 5 prusa inside a creality enclosure just for abs printing and it's been great.
Due to living in the pacific nw, all my filament is in a dehydrator when in use. I recycle the heat generated from the dehydrator into my enclosure which house two Ender 3’s that now only run ABS. The dehydrator alone keeps ambient temps around 35c, and with both printers running temps peak around 55c. I do use a textured pei sheet from TH3D. Over all I’ve had great success, and have almost no issues with abs anymore.
I did have to replace all custom parts in the printer with abs/nylon due to temps and this summer I plan on moving the power supplies outside of the enclosure. my two access doors are also easily removable for air flow when summer hits, and I have fans installed in strategic places to either draw air out or move air in from a cooler source to help maintain temps.
I have been using the Creality enclosure for 2 months. I have all my electronics inside with an added pi, camera, and LED lights. I'm not concerned about heat on the components or electronics as their operating temperatures can withstand much higher heats than I experience or even reported in this video. Due to my ambient temperature my enclosure is heated to about 30c. Most laptops and ATX cases are going to heat soak their components significantly more than this enclosure even at 50c. With the creality enclosure I have the best layer adhesion and never experienced warping.
I recently purchased one. Honest answer only. How is everything after 4 years?
I've been using one for a little over a month
I can't see myself printing without one ':D
The regulated temp is just awesome. It's getting winter now and my prints were starting to suffer with warping when the first couple of dips in celsius happened
I just have the screen wired outside of the enclosure. Planning to get the sonic pad soon soon
You can also lowkey use the enclosure as a dryer box XD
Yessss I haven’t seen any videos on this topic and I’ve wanted to see a review for awhile. Thank you Teaching Tech!
i
Like always, thank you for your video.
I went for another route for my CR10. I build up an enclosure from scrap plywood a friend gave me. I fitted polyester 10mm thick on the inside, printed some hinges and locks, used a polycarbonate front door. The enclosure is fitted on a frame of construction wood, on wheels for moving it in my workshop. I found a cheap car thermometer in Aldi to monitor the temperature. In addition, i attached a smoke detector on top, just in case...
As the plywood was so ugly (from shipping boxes), I covered the whole setup with survival golden covers. It looks now like a moon lander. i get many questions from my friends ;)
Haha I can picture a moon lander now.
Great video as usual. I made my enclosure out of metal from an old head board and 3D printed parts for my Ender 3 pro. I covered it with heavy duty PVC normally used to cover garden furniture as it's designed to bit quite a high temperature. I've made it tall but left the top open. I know it won't maintain the temperature unaided but my ABS printing is now floorless and the bed can be dropped down to 105C for 1st layer then 90 for the rest of the print. Before the enclosure I was getting warping and delamination with the same rolls of filament. Works awesome considering cost me about 8 pounds with a bit of up-cycling.
Yeah sure. Puppies were added for the “cute factor”, right? Well it worked.
Great vid as usual, man. Love your videos and they have help me immensely.
I mentioned them in another video and some one begged me to include them.
@@TeachingTech more puppies😊
Pup = cutest clickbeat of all times
@@TeachingTech You can't go wrong with puppies. And unlike kittens, the still love you after they grow up 😁.
@@leroycasterline1122 How dare you cast aspersions upon my darling bengal cats!!! They cannot help being assholes!
:D
I had DIY enclosure from PVC pipes and car sunscreen, did cost me like 4$ to make. It kept up to 40c. I did use brim for ABS parts most of the time. I never had a problem with electronics. At the moment I am working on a new enclosure. It's an old dishwasher. Basically full steel enclosure, and also made wheels so I can slide the printer like a drawer whenever I want out of the enclosure to level the bed. I am already printing in it for a few days, will mount it on the wall tomorrow.
Sounds like a good setup.
Yea I use brim too for ABS
You had me at "it's cursed". Great video!
Given the success I've had with my Creality enclosure, I have to think he's right.
I like the dogs!
Thanks for this review, and for taking the time to fit all these accessories/upgrades to the most popular printers.
Good video and testing. Was surprised about the outcome.
Some of my own observations of working with ABS using Zortrax M-200. Using their own branded ABS filament and the stock settings I have had some really bad failures, constant warping and delamination. The way I have managed to overcome this is by in their software I switch to external material and crank up the heat settings all the way up (290C nozzle, 105C bed) and the printer sits inside a cabinet which is not in anyway airtight (quite a bit of gap on the door). Now there is only minimal warping with large prints at the bottom, sometimes not at all, but most importantly the printer never fails and the objects come out as they should.
I think a big part of why Zortrax performs best for ABS is the perforated plate and using a good raft on the models. As the raft deposits itself inside the perforations it can mechanically withstand the pulling forces and the long time baking in 100+ degrees will normalize the plastic eventually relieving the part of the stress forces. I've noticed that when using ABS the raft is easy to peel off leaving a nice bottom surface on the model, unlike PLA which always ends up melting the raft into the model.
The ideal chamber temperature for ABS and ASA is 85 degrees C.. The main reason I would like a chamber is to shield from drafts.. My prints come out great with an 85 degree bed 250 nozzle on blue tape with ASA.. Little to NO warp at all but you have to use 0% fan except when bridging and block off any and all drafts with an ambient room temp of around 72 degrees F or higher.
Have had no issues with the creality enclosure running on an upgraded ender 3 for a few months. The printer does have the electronic box and power supply relocated outside the enclosure.
That's an ideal setup. Did your warping reduce?
@@TeachingTech I have had no warping issues.
Wow yeah. I was just about to do this. I have an ender 5, so the wham bam doesn't fit. I may have to steal your ender 5 design.
Saves me $90 on the creality thing, tho! Thanks!
All the parts are on Thingiverse. I'm about to refine the design to use cork instead of acrylic on several surfaces and also seal up the top sides more to prevent drafts.
@@TeachingTech That sounds like a good idea. Have you any concerns over printing ABS (or PET/ASA/etc.)? And what is even adequate ventilation? I'm eyeing the nimble, and that'll mean I need to print new mounting bits around my hotend, so PLA isn't really the best way to go. PETG or ABS, or something with a higher temp factor, but I'm concerned that I might breath things that are bad for me. Thanks for doing all this!
I use to use a similar setup with my Wanhao i3, but then found out about cura's draft shield, since then I just use ABS slurry and a raft and get decent prints 90% of the time.
I've been using a mostly stock Ender 3 in the Creality box all winter without any issues. I only print PLA and PETG and its winter here in Washington so my results are not really comparable to the tests Michael ran. I actually like the pipe frame and have made a camera mount, tool holder and filament guide for it. I use it in the house and out in the garage for longer overnight prints. Guess I'll see how it behaves in the summer. If nothing else, it's great for keeping the printer clean and containing the fumes. Also... the Creality enclosure goes on sale frequently, I got my mine in November for $49.
I've got an Ender 3 V2 with the larger Creality enclosure. While I print PLA rather than ABS and thus have a lower hotend temperature, I print on a 60℃ bed and have never had my steppers heat up like that, even after a 36 hour print. Assuming my chamber thermometer is accurate, I believe I was a bit over 60℃ at the crossbar (it's been a while so I'm not sure, but that's a typical temperature). Of course my chamber volume is significantly larger, but that doesn't seem to come into play given my temperatures.
Decades ago I was a submarine electrician, and the rule of thumb for temperature was if you can't hold your hand on it for 10 seconds there's a problem. I don't recall ever touching a properly functioning motor or panel that approached that limit. Now I know little about steppers, but immediately painful to the touch can't be good!
Have you checked your stepper current settings? When I first set up my printer I found a sample configuration file (supposedly for the Ender 3) that set currents to 800 mA for the axes and 1000 for the extruder. Fortunately, I brushed my Y stepper with my fingers as I was switching off the printer after my first test print. It was way too hot so I did a bit of research and set the axes to 580 and the extruder to 650. Everything printed great the no more hot steppers.
Great test here Michael. I was actually contemplating buying the Creality model for my Ender 5. Thanks to your testing results I think I will keep the money in my pocket and pass on it for now.
I've had excellent results with the WhamBam enclosure, printing PETG in a drafty environment on my Ender 3. With 235 nozzle, 75 bed, with blue tape on the bed surface, and printing on a raft. I've gotten amazing prints that just didn't seem possible before I got the enclosure, and it is consistent enough for me to consider switching to PETG entirely. I'm still doing experiments to see if I can eliminate the rafts and save on the small amount of filament used for them. For $100, the WhamBam enclosure is totally worth it to me as an experimentation platform for moving beyond PLA -- looking forward to more exotic filaments next.
Best 3d printing topics on RUclips!
I use a low CFM fan in my diy enclosure to keep it from getting too hot. I believe the better goal is to keep temperature fluctuations around the printer, such as breezes and drafts. Thank you for sharing.
For Abs dont use layer fan
I built my enclosure using cardboard, PVA and 3D printed corner joints. Been working well for over a year
Ender 3 ? Good to know
@@noway8233 Yes, Ender 3. I printed a hinge (from thingiverse) and made a door as well. I used plastic film to make the windows. For an Ender 3 the size should be at least 53cm x 58cm x 53cm.
Thank you for the video. I didn't know these enclosures even existed. I have a MK3S and a Ikea Lack DIY enclosure in my living room. I think this is pretty usual setup. Can you make a video about enclosures and air filtration? That could help a lot.
"Maybe it is cursed" is the best comment I have ever heard in a tech channel :D (cause sometimes it comes to that...)
I have the creality one for the ender3 with unstable temp in my basement it works perfect it stays at a stable 32 degrees celsius I even notice better prints so I ordered one for my ender 5 plus.
Great video except[t one thing that was misquoted. The Prusa Lack enclosure does not move the electronics outside of the enclosure. Only the power supply is relocated.
- Steppers will be fine
- Of course any other electronics aside from the steppers should be moved outside of the enclosure, there's a good reason why manufacturers recommend active cooling for stepper drivers for example.
- There's no indications on how long you waited before launching the prints with passive heating and given the internal temps I assume you didn't wait, which would play a role in how conclusive your test would be.
- Your active heating will only cause problems, ABS needs stable temps to print properly. Here you have creating air movements which will be worth than printing in open air in a closed room.
This test doesn't seems to be thought through:
- If your internal temps are going down during the print, then it means there's an issue with the enclosure or the setup. Seeing that, you should have stopped and tried to fine the source of the temps drifting down.
- It's a well know fact that sensors (except endstops) will be affected by heat so you should have addressed that before testing, as there's obviously an issue with your first layers on both the Prusa and the Ender.
- Same goes with not addressing the PLA parts on the Ender.
I love your video but I don't think you should release content with incomplete or wrong test procedures.
Thank you for this great video. I almost wanted to buy the Creality enclosure for my Ender3 pro. The biggest problems I have are with ABS not with PLA. Most of the problems accure when there is an airflow around my printer due to draft.
I have the Creality enclosures for both my CR-10 V2 and my Ender 3Pro and I have never had an issue. I added some cheap temperature/humidity sensors that I got from Amazon and humidity gets down to 10% when I am printing ABS or PETG. I actually use it to dry my other filaments while I a printing. The hottest I ever seen the enclosure was 40C.
your results are kind of weird, my ender 3 enclosure has ambient temp of around 40 and my abs prints come out with little warping. Maybe try turning bed temp to 110c.
Glass bad @ 110⁰c is the way to go!
I have the Creality one and it's great for keeping dust off but as for printing it's been very hit or miss. Once I upgraded the extruder to Creality's own aluminium one instead of plastic the filament started to snap too because the stepper under the extruder got hot and the aluminium conducted the heat! softening the filament enough during retractions to deform it.
Same here .Got the Creality Large enclosure-Printer ender 3 V2 With MicroSwiss direct drive and metal hotend.Need ventilation to make it work
Have been using my CR-10S Pro in one of the Creality pop up enclosures for a few months now. Generally only print ABS, and more recently, PETG. Previously, i'd used a cardboard box to print ABS. I've had absolutely zero issues (previously i'd experienced warped prints in cardboard box), and my ABS parts are near perfect. It took quite a bit of experimentation to get my z offset right, but once it is, print failures have been practically nil.
Both are something I would not waist my Money on
This was super useful. I'm in the process of enclosuring my ender 3, and i've been thinking a lot about the effects on the various components. One should maybe try and ciculate the air(move the hot air from the top down to the bottom) of the creality enclose. The temperature gradient inside that tall chamber is probably several degrees. Maybe even tenths. Super nice with these semi-scientific approaches.
I have no room in my house to keep my printer so it is kept in the garage (small house, too many kids). I built my own enclosure for my Ender 3. The enclosure is both heated and has an exhaust fan (when it gets too hot). I use the OctoPrint Enclosure plugin to keep the internal temperature regulated and I am getting awesome results (as compared to printing without it). I also need the enclosure because every time the garage door was opened I would have layer adhesion issues due to the draft. In fact, I could tie the bad layers back to the door open time (I am using Amazon key and have a log of when the door opens and closes). The few times I have brought my printer into the house, I do not use the enclosure and get awesome prints. In my case, the enclosure was necessary because I have less control over the ambient conditions around the printer.
I got the Creality Large enclosure-Printer ender 3 V2 With MicroSwiss direct drive and metal hotend...All this combine with E-sun Pla+ bed 60, Nozzle 235...Automatic jam after 30 mins of prints(No ventilation in the enclosure)
My wife bought me the Creality one thinking it might keep the cat away from my prints. Come to find out that enclosing the printer can raise temps and fail PLA prints. Further, it gets in the way of working with the printer and my Ender-3 S1 has to be rotated annoyingly and barely fits. So, after pulling it out to add the LED kit, I think I'll leave it out until such time as it warrants enclosing.
Heat won't fail PLA prints.
I built the Lack enclosure (Prusa style) for my Ender 3. Prints with PETG work great inside the enclosure, prints with PLA are constantly failing - both with the Ender3 hotend (with Direct Drive Mofification) and with the Hemera. The reason for this is that the filament path gets too warm and then at some point the filament becomes deformed and is no longer transported. So I always have to print PLA with open doors. (I have not tried ABS yet)
I use the larger Creality enclosure for my CR10S Pro and I found I had to bump first layer extrusion all the way to 122% to get good adhesion. From there, it seems to work fine.
One tip is I leave the door open to check the first layer is going down well, then close it up once I'm sure it's ok.
I don't run the printer 24/7, but so far it seems to be holding up. I'm not sure how to know if the steppers are failing due to heat.
Do you have any problems with the stepper motor on the sprite extruder getting hot? Thinking to buy one for my ender 3s1
Printed just fine with nylong from matterhacks in the creality box with my ender 3, had brim on
cooling fan 20-50% when printing enclosed ABS. 50c enclosure temperature. If you can't get to or maintain that heat use a 120mm case fan spare heated platform (perhaps one left behind after a printer was upgraded) and spare power supply to cobble together an additional heat source. Use the fan to "cool" the spare print bed spreading the heat throughout the enclosure. if you want to get fancy about it you can add a pi, and have it turn off and on depending on enclosure temp. Also ABS prefers a .06mm nozzle.
Interesting findings! I honestly thought it would have been a net positive result, but apparently not so. I may build an enclosure for my CR-10S, at some point for printing Nylon and this has given me some ideas. Thanks for the testing!
For printing nylon yuo need an all metal hotend
Currently trying to print the parts for my Voron on a cardboard enclosed Monoprice ultimate(Duplicator 6/Zortrax clone). Sadly I printed a hotend mount out of PLA which finally failed after about 15 hours of printing. The more I venture into printing ABS and Nylon the more I'm glad I ordered a Voron 2.4 kit. Now if they could ship the thing.
One way to Keep the part in temperature is beaming with infrared light. Did someone try this already?
Nasa did it. But used halogen bulbs instead of infrared. Here is the article.
www.3d4makers.com/blogs/news/turning-a-desktop-3d-printer-into-a-high-temperature-printer#:~:text=The%20NASA%20team%20made%3A,to%20withstand%20the%20higher%20temperatures.
That was great! I've struggled to get even reasonable layer adhesion with ABS on my Ender 3 so I made a box using foam insulation from a building supplier, a small window door using plexiglass and coating the inside with aluminized bubble wrap - got temps inside to over 65 °C using just the heated bed. This also reduced power consumption considerably.
Warping improved but the print failed after an hour when the extruder stopped working - I traced it to the driver chip on the stock mainboard, tried to replace the chip with a rework heat gun and failed - the solder pads are just too small to place accurately, and couldn't get the driver to work again.
I ended up buying an SKR Mini E3 to replace the mainboard, which arrived yesterday.
So from my experience, cooling the electronics and PSU is important, so I will make some ventilation pipes to connect the intake fans to ambient air.
I think the steppers can handle fairly high temps up to 100 °C, but will also consider using an aquarium pump and silicon tubing to try to draw some heat away from them.
The quest for a decent ABS print continues....
Thanks for sharing, great information.
Why don't you just print a case for the mainboard and display and mount it on the outside? Along with the PSU.
@@schwuzi I will, after I've installed the new board and can print again!
a chip will drift into place by itself given that there's enough solder and flux for it to do so; i've soldered many tiny parts (including BGAs with 0.5 mm balls) with success. a microscope may be a necessity though
@@ikbendusan I know, I tried, but was really tough especially with so much copper in the board drawing heat away, and I can't be sure that the heat didn't damage the chip or surrounding components. Maybe the oven would work better. At least the other channels still work, so could be useful to use for a plotter or spares.
Anyway, have new board now.
Thanks for the videos! When printing with PETG the layer adhesion seems strong enough that parts don't split, but they can warp away from the print surface and fail that way. I've found that a brim and 25C semi-enclosed (reduced drafts) is enough to stop this happening. (From the research papers PETG looks to have the lowest figures for released nano particles, so along with the mechanical properties it seems the smartest choice to print with.)
The oversized hood enclosure I made is open at the bottom with its walls starting just below bed level, so all the electronics under the printer are outside, and it traps the warm air in above the build plate similar to a balloon. Printing on green PET tape stuck to glass helps with PETG adhesion and allows for 40C bed temp on smaller parts and 60C on larger ones; no need for any glues etc. The technique for printing PP filament on packing tape was applied, which is also made of the selfsame plastic.
There is a recent video by Nerys on a sort of 'topology hack' to print complex multi-walled parts with vase mode. This has helped a lot with designing things for PETG printing (usually 1.2mm line single/double wall parts) so there is little to no retraction / travel - definitely recommend watching it.
Lastly, I saw a welding video about how correct order of welds when fabricating a frame helps stop it warping. Maybe slicers could do something like that for printing ABS etc, where they extrude layers in a particular pattern/order to help equalise the cooling of the part? Or a thicker wall/infill on the inside of external corners to retain heat a bit better (if that's what would help).
Considering this is meant to do higher temp filaments closer to 300 degrees C I’m. It sure why this test was done at all? Only the s1 pro for ender is made to handle up to that temp and the screen actually detaches and is placed outside of the enclosure while printing
I actually don't have that many issues but I have the comgrow version of the creality one occasionally I have abs warping issues but runs very well would like to construct one that take my psu and electronics out but these fit on my work bench for now a redesign will come later
I like this Michael.
The other Michaels are dead to me.
This is also a good example of that printers need to be designed with a heated chamber to work with high temp plastics properly
9:18 You said a PLA part warping in the heat. What part was it? Because I don't quite remember Ender 3 having PLA parts so ...
For my (heavily modified) ender3 pro I have a cardboard box (+insulation etc.) to put over, with an extra fan that blows onto the heating plate with a sensor in the case, and marlin configured to use that as the heater. takes a while but due to very good insulation works quite fine.
Tip, use a cheap baby monitor inside that connects to your wifi. I just watch everything from my phone anytime anywhere as long as you have internet signal.
You shouldn't use flexible bed layers when printing warp sensitive material. The forces on the bed are massive and will bend the flexible bed for sure, causing the print to come off early. I use a glass bed for printing ABS and PC on my modified Ender-3 Pro (PT-100 sensor, direct drive) and preheat the bed for10 minutes. When printing, a large towel over the printer setup is enough to retain heat and prevent draft. Using 3DLac adhesive and a brim for perfect prints without warping.
You know, these are some pretty simply made enclosure. I think you could easily make these with just a few PVC pipes, some aluminized bubble wrap, and 3D printed connectors. That's maybe $20 to $30 at Home Depot 🧐
thank you! I was about to test an enclosure i've made myself on my anycubic mega-s,.
Free option: I used corflute to make a box (old election placards), lined it with bubble wrap, and created a lid with a thermal blanket (the cheap silver one) as seal. For asa it's fantastic but printing with a raft is almost essential.
This heated chamber piece is something Statasys have (had? expired?) a patent on, in particular whereby the motors and other moving mechanical components are outside the chamber. The machine I saw had a thermally insulated (as far as reasonable) slot through which the bed gantry moved, allowing the Z axis lead screw and motor to be outside the heated chamber (this being a printer where X and Y are at the top, not the style of the Prusa and the Ender 3 where the bed itself travels in Y). Interesting to see these simpler and cheaper solutions failing, so perhaps Stratasys are onto something with their designs!
Keeping all the electronics, PSU, motors, and filament outside the heated chamber would naturally seem to be a sensible necessity - especially for cheaper electronics that aren't rated to operate in higher ambient temperatures.
It would be interesting to take temperature measurements directly on the motor driver chips, which are likely specified for narrower temperature ranges. Those heat sinks may struggle to dissipate the heat from the drivers in a higher temperature environment.
I think this is the patent - patents.google.com/patent/US6722872B1/en - current expiry end of Feb 2021. Key piece is from the abstract I think is this, "The motion control components (18, 20) of the apparatus (10) are external to and thermally isolated from the build chamber (24). A deformable thermal insulator (132) forms a ceiling of the building chamber, allowing motion control of the dispensing head (14) in an x, y plane by an x-y gantry (18) located outside of and insulated from the build chamber (24)"
thank you Michael for your in depth review and informative testing. Its crazy that you couldnt get ABS to print well on any of your 3 machines, we print almost daily with ABS with great success.
Maybe it realy is your filament? We use eSun for great quality to price, and get great results. A few tips: if you heat your bed to 110-120 you can achieve a 40°C temp in a short time and hold it there for the length of the print with no external heater needed. Maybe it was the drop in temp that destroyed your prints?
We dont recommend using with internal electronics at over 50°C , and the Wham Bam HotBox has that built in, just open the top vent port to allow some hot air to escape when it starts to rise over 45° C. You can also print the feet on thingiverse to raise the HotBox off the ground by a bit allowing cool air to stay around lower electronics and the heat will stay trapped above.
I do hope that you can get the results you are looking for and are able to see the advantages of printing in an enclosure soon!
thanks
Thankyou mam. Sry. Couldn't helpmaself
I personally think it was bad filament as well. I print abs on my prusa with no enclosure for small prints. The key is to shield the drafts from the print. I believe the air moving from the hair dryer negatively impacted the situation.
Abs is tricky to get to stick on the first layer in my opinion. I would like to see Michael Try again with different filament and some sort of bed adhesive. I bet there will be noticeable difference of enclosure vs no enclosure. But btw I like the convenience of the wham bam. Looks much easier to use!
Ps. I think with better bed adhesion it will show that the enclosure prevents delamination. Any print that isn't adhered well on the first layer will warp pla petg. abs.
Give us a part 2 Michael! ;)
I have my Ender 3 in the Creality enclosure down in my cold basement. I’ve never had a problem printing with PLA. I’m also using the Creality glass bed - would that make a difference?
I would be interested in seeing a follow up that examines your results after swapping all PLA parts for PETG or similar. Additionally, I would love to know your opinion on using enclosures to isolate any microplastic or dust given off by a printer and vent it out via a duct to an exterior window.
Hi, I thought it might be interesting to see a comparison between a pteg item printet in a heatet inclosure, and one printet outside, I am thinking strengt test.
Interesting stuff, the steppers getting hot isn't that big a deal - generally they'll have insulation class H windings, so they can get seriously hot before the insulation is significantly degraded.
the problem is that they start losing steps when they get hot
Did a 1.4 build based on some of your videos. Hope you do another skr build soon
Skr v1.4 video coming up
ive ordered a 4max pro ( cheap enclosed printer ) to do big flat abs parts. fingers crossed it does the job because i havent had great success with my own attempts enclosing my tevo tornado
Enclosure only worked for me when i used abs juice, otherwise I had those same problems you were having. Without the enclosure though, I couldn't print anything over 20mm tall or 100mm in diameter without it warping.
Received my Creality Enclosure for my Ender 5 last Friday. Been printing successfully using ABS filament with the Creality Enclosure for about 5 straight days now. I didn't have any of the issues you are having. Really strange that you had this kind of issue with your Creality Enclosure. But I do have concerns about keeping the electronics inside the enclosure for long period of time.
I bought the Creality enclosure to try and keep my office cooler since the Ender 3 Pro is in my office and running it constantly does increase the temperature. But I guess now that we are into winter I could in theory pack it away. :)
for ABS prints i have open UP printers that print flatter- by printing extra hot, i assume this allows the ABS to cool down slower with less internal stress
was just hovering over the buy button for the crealtity box and saw ur video so thanks for that i will not be gettng it my prints come out great in a cool basement so why tamper wiht resaults thanks!
I'm using IPA to clean build surface of ender 3 at work with it's fake buildtak and my colleague questioned that, he says that there might be some special coating that might be dissolved by IPA, is that true?
Thanks for this. I'm likely going to be purchasing an Ender 5 and your design for a heated chamber for that looks like it might be the way to go. I'll definitely be printing any upgrade parts for it in PETG instead of PLA to hopefully let them handle the heat until ABS versions could be made.
I use ender 3 inside DIY passive thermal-box, print ABS and HIPS without warping.
What you can do is put the electrics of the enclosure and water cool the steppers
Complicated but that would work.
@@TeachingTech it should make modding the electronics easier aswell
This is an incredibly useful video. I hope you study these enclosures more; I think there are still things to learn. One thing that might be interesting to find out is is what happens when you add either passive or active cooling to the stepper motors. I see that there are really simple heat sinks that you can add to a stepper motor that just attach with thermal tape; also, I have seen some that use a fan. How well do these work inside an enclosure?
What would happen if you blew warm air from the hairdryer across the build plate, without an enclosure?.
Don't you need a bed temp of around 100c for abs?
I used a cardboard box to print abs on my ender 3, passive heating and still prints good
I wonder why the creality enclosure fails so much..
The belt heats up and becomes loose so it misses positions, and ruins the print. So belt has to be tight.
Thanks for the review, really helpful.
Do you have any opinions on ventilation and ABS? Every google search i do on the topic of ABS toxicity is terrifying.
I can't bring myself to read them. I worked with ABS and every other variety of polymer/copolymer on the market years ago and throw in MEK and Acetone with it for cleaning, etc.... Very little to no safeguards in place. Either my genetics will prove to roll me through or I'll be gone before 70. Who knows? The funny thing is I remember a smell from ABS but it wasn't offensive, just strong.
I was thinking of getting myself the creality one, but not for printing ABS, since I don't do that often, but rather for catproofing it, as enough of my cats fur got inside the box for the PCB that it fried the board, i didn't notice beforehand and replaced the board, is there something else I should buy to pretect the printer?
"PLA Part warping from the heat", LOL, try ABS, I found out really quick I needed to re-print all my add-ons. DOH! Like the video however, thanks for the good work.
As always it was very interesting ! Can I make a suggestion ? The way you did the graphs we can't compare them directly. I would have used 1 color for one combination (for example blue for ender 3 + ender 3 enclosure). I would have then use solid lines for electronics temp, dotted for bed temp, etc. That way I would have directly compared the results: Ender 3 without enclosure vs with Wham Bam vs with Creality. Passive vs active, etc.
I bought my grow tent for 60 AUD and works great!
ive gotten superb prints in the creality one.
only useing PETG
i bought a enclosure from amazon that "fits" the ender 3. Wasnt badly priced. It was decently built and had the correct cutouts. Its even had a small acrylic box to build and install your power supply into outside the enclosure. My only complaint was that the cabling seems a little short for the cutout provided. As far as prints.....I had the same struggle you did and wondering if I wasted money
so you didn't achieve at least one non-warped print using three separate enclosures and one of the better prints came from a printer outside of a closure? Is ABS this difficult to print with to achieve a non-warped print? Maybe we could have a video on how to achieve the perfect ABS print.
I’m really surprised you don’t address the hazards of VOCs and particulates looking for at one of these enclosures with the idea of using a fan to pull in fresh air and exhaust through a respirator particulate filter.
I wonder if the Ender/Prusa would work in the Wham Bam, or is just the bed on those two that won't adhere at higher temps.
It's not the bed - it's the inductive sensor. Detected distance of an inductive sensor changes depending on temperature. The P.I.N.D.A. 2 has an internal temp-sensor to conpansate, but it has to be calibrated - and as nobody seems to do so, conpansation is mostly turned off.
So If you put an mk3 into an enclosure, do a firstlayer calibration with the chamber heated up. Else your First Layer will be wrong distance from the bed and so not stick optimal. Has nothing to do with the surface of the bed, only with the ABL in higher temp envirement.
Great Video as ever
Thanks for sharing :-)
Dont you need to switch off the hot end fan for ABS printing?
no your part cooling fan
For Abs adesion i use stick glue over Pei or over glass bed...i think yuo must try that and the last option abs juice