This guy here is by far my favorite engine builder. Real, down to earth and stands by his products and the equipment he uses. He's got the best attitude and most insane engines. Keep it up Steve.
Right he doesn't try to sluff it off on the owner right off the bat he finds the cause of the problems and fixes it right. Better than any other engine builder out there.
He and Cleetus also have the right attitude about things breaking. Even if it is the fault of the builder of the part, they acknowledge that stuff is GOING to break when you're doing the kind of racing they do that pushes the limits. It's just a part of the game that you have to deal with. And in Steve's case, when it is his fault, he owns up to it and makes it right. Speaks to his character and why he has a good reputation in the community.
I was thinking the same or materials left in the fuel lines after being made and not completely cleaned out. But I’m far from being any kind of expert and that’s why Steve is the best and will come up with the conclusion.
I've been saying for a long time that C McF. . .k blows stuff up / crashes on purpose ( based on thumbnails that cross my page ) and fan bois have called me various names. Well. . . . ... .
Steve, much respect for the live teardown on Mullet's engine! There isn't many people, let alone very competent people like you that are willing to show being puzzled on camera. That could have been easily edited out, yet it was left in and I have respect for that sir. I am wondering if the oil pump is having an issue again or possibly the camshaft. If I remember right, he said he dropped some oil pressure right, which prompted the whole inspection to begin with?
Has cleetus finally grown up? Heavens forbid lol. Oil pump wear ? or a crap oil pressure sending unit. Motor looks too perfect to be anything serious. Over abundance of caution rules the day.
@@jaredweingartner3871 It is likely the pump if anything. It could be leftover trash in a line or from making all the new lines and not flushing them, but I doubt they skip that step. It seems to be making material so out of all my options, pump makes the most sense to me.
If i remember correctly, one of the turbos was having oil feeding issues, maybe the turbo got a bit torn up and sent little pieces through the return line, which is why there is no metal to be found in the engine itself
This is my guess as well or I don't know oil flow direction or remember if the oil lines and cooler were changed when the other oil pump let ot maybe some residual trash caught in the lines
I am not 100 percent sure of the oil flow on these motors , but first thought is inspect the oil pump.This is interesting , and am looking forward to Steve's final analysis. Many thanks for the video.
Awesome quick peek Steve. I think one fragment of the broken valve-spring has found it's way to the oil-pump. Always check if all the broken parts can make it complete again. If something is missing it still is in the engine. Good luck with the rebuild.
@@54raceman if you go back to the video where they took the pump apart, you can see Steve notices the small filter 'hat' protecting the pump inlets in the sump from big chunks entering is missing some material, which can't have gone anywhere but into the pump, causing it to grind itself to pieces
The amount of knowledge Steve puts out there through all of his break downs and explanations is amazing. So cool to see a master of the craft sharing his knowledge for the love of the craft and sport. Rock on man.
Best guess oil pump. If I remember correctly he lost oil pressure and then you guys found material in the filter. Possibly cracked gerotor letting it expand and started eating the housing of the pump.
I love how the diagnosis is practically real-time. We get to see it as you see it. Also, takes a lot of confidence and knowledge to let us see you work through it in your head without an edit where you come back with the perfect answer.
The word you're searching for on the soft bearing "swipe" is burnishing. We saw our buddy Dewey make his cameo which is always a well appreciated breath of fresh air. Such a good doggo! Cheers!
Ya cant knock an "over abundance of caution" ... As a mechanic with his own business...and just dealing with the general public...let alone masterpieces that you have built Steve! That look, perform and id think would be worth a million bucks...your motors are Picasso grade art bro. Mad love n respect from Western Australia!
We used to use ferrography to analyze used oil to try and figure out where the wear was coming from. You could really get a lot of good information with one simple test. It can tell the difference between babbitt material, aluminum, iron/steel wear and carbon sludge. It does require the ferrography equipment and a microscope but they can be put together relatively cheaply.
I would check the oil pump for wear before the engine tear down. It appears Garrett is growing up, he was hell bent on blowing up engines a few months ago.
You really are in for a treat if you ever meet him in person, He took time out of his day to explain an issue to me I was having couldn’t understand over the phone was told to come by the shop lol he literally schooled me and very humble guy
What i love most about Steve when you see that puzzled confused look you know something up. Watch sinch that motor blew all 8 rods that looks i have seen 5-6 times everytime there has been something found. I belive there will be something maybe oil pump if the lines have not been flushed id scope them to check them. Keep it up steve these video's are why i keep coming back.
This turned into a great video! Im really hooked on seeing more of what could have been the issue! Im almost wondering if it was material from all the lines they made for it. I know its been in there for a little bit but what if some debris started to come out of his hoses?
I love when Detective Steve solves a mystery! Next video we will know what’s up with the Cleetus motor. Now if he can only figure out his own issues with that trans and converter. Stay on it Steve!,👍👍
My hunch may be that a line or fitting between the pump and filter held some trash from thrust bearing #1, and that finally showed up in the filter. In fact, I seem to remember that even being suggested in the day 3 video.
time for you to add a lockup convertor to your automatic Steve. I am thinking cavitation / fluid shear at high rpm as you overpower the stator is causing the heat buildup within the convertor itself. Especially looking at your fluid changes. 900F fluid temps non localized would burn the fluid black as the ace of spades. Yet that is not happening. So all the heat to blue the Stainless is being generated within the convertor itself, and that localized fluid. a lockup clutch will solve that issue :)
I could listen to you tell me about engines all day! I just really find it fascinating to learn about. I love learning more about engines than what I know already. Love your videos steve ❤🤘🏻😎
A true professional will always look for more knowledge. Steve is a pro. He don’t care if it’s his fault though it’s not much but he wants answers no matter the end result. Nice work.
Glad to see the SMX not hurt, we did see he hurt a turbo. Could the debris come from the turbo? Doesn't the turbo drain directly back to the pan? Just an idea, love the honest videos
I think the turbos would go to the scavenge side of the oil pump. I'm betting they find something in the pump...either from the turbo or the pump itself. There was debris in the filter (IIRC) and it was leaking from the rear main seal. But they know the converter is having trouble handling the power and getting REAL hot...so that might have cooked the seal. They're really pushing this automatic trans with this much power.
As a turbo builder. Ball bearings/debris can fall into the pan after a bearing failure. BUT cleets turbos were just smoking. Turbos won't drop anything in that scenario.
Steve you guys are awesome! Absolutely love your mannerisms and the way you carry yourself throughout these videos! 🙌🙌🙌 So many people could learn from your character the humbleness & joy to teach others and not belittle anyone!! Bravo sir
Steve always shows integrity in his knowledge and ability to chase down any type of issue that can or does occur. It makes something good even better looking for the weak links for the future development of the high performance engines that he builds.
Steve, absolutely love the videos, I was there at Great Lakes dragway, ur car looked absolutely beautiful! As far as I recall from standing in the pits with cleetus, Zach had said there was some material in the oil filter, the throttle body cable had snapped and after the 6.87 pass he was at the end of the strip for quite awhile. I heard cleetus and Zach talking about having 80psi of oil pressure in the burnout box, but by the end of the run it was 15-20psi. When they put the zip ties on the throttle body and got back up to the burnout box in the quick turnaround, it did not sound healthy, couldn’t make boost or do a easy burnout like mullet normally does. After his second attempt I was back in the pits, watching and it seemed like it could’ve been another rocker or rod, but Zach was showing something in the bottom oil pan to one of ur guys from ur team or anyone that came over to help. Anyway I hope this helps in some way, keep up ur videos!!
Taking analytical approach (1)source of debris (2) loss of oil pressure. So with no signs of damage in engine other sources to consider = oil pump internals, oil lines, oil tank, TURBOS and their respective lines. Anyway typical great video showing all, including your perplexing looks, Thanks Steve!
This is what i love most about Steve's workmanship. I have seen that same puzzled and confused look on his face I say 5-6 times since it blew all eight rods. What I love is the fact that he will not stop till he finds the source. Every time something has been found
Hopefully it’s good to go. I’d be checking and cleaning all the oil lines, fittings, and the tank itself. Maybe turn the engine 90 degrees at a time and recheck the thrust. I can’t see that making a difference though.
He shut it down for low oil pressure and metal in the filter. Hard to tell in the video how much movement there was in the crank at the track. Had like 9lbs oil pressure driving it back. What would be normal for that scenario? how concerned are you with the amount of metal in the oil filter they showed on the video? They also had a throttle position sensor issue on the last run as well. It’ll be interesting to see what you find with his motor and your trans converter.
19:50. HEY STEVE IT'S THE ROLLER THRUST IN THE REAR AND TURN THE CRANK WHEN MESURING THRUST BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE SPOTS WHERE IT WONT AND SPOTS THAT WILL MOVE ALOT
Once again, super informative video. Thinking about pulling the pan on my race car just to see (my car is an 11sec street/strip machine... OK... high 11s.) Anyway, at some point, do you have to suspect the vacuum/oil pump? How do you setup the belts on those?
@SME...Fellas just a heads up on the edit. The speed up time lapse to cover unwanted discussions in your videos can be slowed down to 25% playback on RUclips for people to hear. Love your work.
Mullet blew up a bunch of motors over the course of its life, prior to the SMX. Remember just prior to the SMX was the "full hand grenade" of 80 psi boost controller malfunction! There is most likely residual "crap" in one of the following locations: oil cooler, turbo oil passage or an inside corner of the oil tank. Most of the lines were changed when Cleetus changed to the SMX but, there are probably some that stayed the same (turbo returns). In road racing when we loose a motor we change all of the above and clean the lines on a dry sump application. Ultrasonic cleaning works for the turbo bodies (after disassembly) and the oil tank, that is pretty straight forward, you can do that in-house with a decent ultrasonic cleaner. The oil coolers in most of our cars are inside the radiator (coolant to oil cooler) not air to oil, it is not a separate oil radiator. This is pretty much due to space limitations and a quicker oil temp warm up. There are a bunch of companies around who are set up to clean these type of small tube coolers, both integrated in one unit and 2 separate coolers. Always have a spare that is clean. One of the bummers of a dry sump system is that there is a TON of stuff to clean when a motor blows up, and you have to do it. Since you are seeing crap re-appear in the pressure stage of the pump and filter my guess is that there is a small colony of garbage in one of the turbo passages or turbo return lines. This dumps a little shiny stuff into the oil tank from time to time and that ruins the pressure stage of the pump and shows in the filter. Nothing ever makes it into the engine. Short story swift, clean the ENTIRE oil system in the car, including the lines, various housings and heat exchangers, then put the freshened motor back in. I am not a fan of in-line screen filters in the scavenge side oil lines as I have had my issues with them. Steve, I love your videos. You do a great job with your motors and offer fantastic customer service. It's great to see someone else who likes to turn money into velocity and noise!
Wouldn’t really be much of a battle if each makes a clean pass because their times in “drag racing times” are quite different. What should happen on paper is Tom will win, Steve will be 2nd, and Cleetus will come in 3rd.
Cleatus will never have his mechanical issues sorted, because he keeps messing with stuff that doesn’t need to be messed with, instead of working systematically to solve a problem. He’s too reactive, the only reason he’s competitive is because of an almost unlimited wallet. If he didn’t have the cash, he’d be last every time.
As a engine builder I believe you just put caution first, and didn't want anything to go wrong and cost either you or Garret $$$$ Safe and great call. SMX lives to race another day>
There is still a problem but it's not the engine causing the low oil pressure it's the converter pressure that's that issue and Cleetus is resolving that on his end
I don't think it's just the converter that's the problem. And it wasn't just because of over cautious. His oil pressure dropped to 9psi. That's EXTREMELY low. I think his oil pump was eating itself alive, causing debris and low oil pressure. Maybe the converter having too much pressure is what caused the oil pump to fail. What else could cause debri & low oil pressure? Debri alone wouldn't cause oil pressure to drop to 9psi.
Man Steve, every time I watch your videos I feel like I just got an education for free! I can't thank you enough for doing this kind of service for humanity. We need more smart people in the worst way. If you keep putting them out, I'll keep watching and learning. Thank you! Also, could be the oil pump that is leaving metal in the filter. Maybe?
Thank you Steve for the lesson!!. Your the best bro!. I hope to get the chance to meet you and all the racers and hopefully get to race again one day soon hopefully!.
I thought he made the decision to stop because it seemed to be low on oil pressure 🤔 I'll be very interested to see if Steve finds something when he tears it down properly
@@smh28v6 deduction. pre-pump is good, post-filter is good, bearings and clearances are good (or will be when measured), filter is dirty, it's gotta be case wear of the pump or there's leftover shrapnel being caught in the hoses from a previous failure.
Just looked at the video and what is major here is the low oil pressure. If theres nothing wrong with the engine, then it HAS to be the oil pump. Goes straight from the pump to filter right? And no material anywhere else. It makes the most sense. And Garrett stopping actually did save the engine, it would've blown up if the pump was going out.
Steve is it possible that the material found in the filter, could be coming from the oil pump itself, like the pump have a bad bear or something causing it to eat itself?
Steve would it be beneficial to use larger diameter trans fluid lines and larger fittings on the trans? Possibly with the lines and fittings you are currently using being smaller,could that cause the pressure to increase under load and cause the fluid to overheat? Just a thought.
Once Cleeter and crew get Mullet dialed in, I'd love to see a Mullet vs. Wagon series of races. Not a grudge match, more like sibling rivalry. The idea being that the winner would get some goofy trophy, and y'all do a best 2/3 series once a year... either during the off season or make it part of a Race Week deal where the best slips at 3 tracks wins that year or something.
Maybe the hoses were not cleaned totally from oil pump. Also a major point on your torque convertor. We're your hoses properly flushed, a restriction will cause heat to increase. Just questioning. Great videos, and I do learn a lot.
Your getting down to the minutia that being a good craftsmen requires... and most youtubers don't seem to fall in that category, esp attention hounds like Cleetus. I would not be surprised if that debris came from making or remaking an oil line that didn't get cleaned out well from the chop saw, or maybe debris left in the dry sump tank or system from the last blow up. IF the debris is actually from the inside of that motor, given the history of it (if I am thinking right) MAAAAYBE you have something that has been left in the blind side of the oil holes that feed the rods from the mains. Brake cleen thru a straw with the tip bent is the only way to flush that out and I have seen that on most any crank thats been turned or polished.... My .02.... Thanks for the vid, hope to see the results...
Steve, as for your convertor, have you ever checked the pressure delta through the cooler? I'm wondering if the cooler is flowing too fast to cool the fluid.
i think the pump is blown. cleeter lost oil pressure then it came back after it cooled down (pump had wear causing the pressure loss at high temp then once cooled the pressure came back because of the clearances in the pump tightening back up.) the material in the filter is from the pump eating itself. the lack of debris anywhere else points to the issue being after the oil leaves engine and before the filter and the only thing in that position is the pump and a few feet of oil line.
If you watch all cleets vids on the motor you’d see tons of material in the oil pans and ect. Just no material atm at your shop. But to much material all in all for something to not be torn up. Don’t chase the material that’s currently in motor because it’s all been evacuated
Had an issue with the r4 pump recently, found all 3 scavenge gears were wearing themselves away on the housing, gaining excessive clearance and throwing material into the clear view screen. I wouldn't be surprised if that's where some of your material has came from. Since changing from the peterson r4 pump with the twisted rotor design to a moroso gear style i haven't had an issue with material in the filter.
Turbo oil lines are not independently filtered, could be coming from them but that would still show in the oil pan unless the lines go to some other port on the engine rather than the oil pan
Do you ever carry out laboratory analysis of the oil? Previously had it done and indicated the metal/alloy type that enables it to be narrowed down to bearing material, alloys or steel from valve train etc
Maybe something in the pump itself self clearanced, sending it up to the filter or maybe even one of the lines from the pump had material in it from before and that's what you saw? Did Cleeter & co put new lines on or re-use? If they re-used, did they flush them? One of those little details that gets missed if you're thrashing. Only other oiling involved is the turbos and they were leaking IIRC? Something there?? But now I'm guessing as I'm outside my knowledge. :) I do like teardown videos like this though as I personally learn so much and it's great to understand how these motors work as it makes watching the content from guys like Cleetus that bit more interesting. Thanks for treating your viewers with this courtesy Steve, really appreciate it.
I was thinking a piece of valve spring went through the oil pump and the extra stuff is from the oil pump getting damaged by that piece. Honestly it was my first thoughts when you reminded about the spring. Furthermore, I thought there was more play in the thrust bearing from the video at the track. Looking forward to see what you find or don't find.
Love the critical think for thought has anyone ever thought about the oil and addtive they use and the filtration maybe cause a situation were the filter is filtering things that biuld up to look like contaminants i dont now thats just thought with the high level of filtration and products today and some might be on his part because such a big boy toy he doesn't want to brake it keep up great work and glad to see u make think a thing again.
You know Steve, Garret must have highest respect for you and your product. When every fiber of the man's body is screaming "stop thinking and just SEND IT" and he still backs away! I think we all know he has the coin for rebuilds and the stones to take it to 100%. But respect is what made him say no!
should check end play in a couple of rotations, I once found a crank to have been ground off center witch changed the thrust clearance from good to to tight in another. just a thought
This guy here is by far my favorite engine builder. Real, down to earth and stands by his products and the equipment he uses. He's got the best attitude and most insane engines. Keep it up Steve.
Amen brother Steve is the shit!
steve is a god of insurance as well. got to use this platform to the fullest
Right he doesn't try to sluff it off on the owner right off the bat he finds the cause of the problems and fixes it right. Better than any other engine builder out there.
He and Cleetus also have the right attitude about things breaking. Even if it is the fault of the builder of the part, they acknowledge that stuff is GOING to break when you're doing the kind of racing they do that pushes the limits. It's just a part of the game that you have to deal with. And in Steve's case, when it is his fault, he owns up to it and makes it right. Speaks to his character and why he has a good reputation in the community.
Down to earth with and earth shattering series of engines from simple to SMX monsters
My bet is the oil pump itself. Can't see how else the debris would be in the filter and nowhere else.
Agree!
I think so too
I was thinking the same or materials left in the fuel lines after being made and not completely cleaned out. But I’m far from being any kind of expert and that’s why Steve is the best and will come up with the conclusion.
Plus that would also make sense why he dropped oil pressure.
+1
Steve sounds like a proud dad that cletus actually took caution to not destroy the SMX 😂
I'm putting my money on the oil pump. This is probably my favorite SME videos to date. The rib jabs and jokes here and there are top notch!
It's my guess too
I think John Doc had a problem similar to this in his black sheep car with the ls and external oil pump coming apart from over spinning them
my guess too now we know everything else looks good , and didnt mullet have an oilpump fail earlier or am i mixing somthing up ??
100% on the oil pump bet
@@Luske74 yes, the pump failed, but that was due to ingesting metal
Your facial expression was priceless when the thrust was still 7 thousands...Great video as always
it's not often that Cleetus will actually stop before he blows up an engine lol
This motor costs a lot more than any LS he runs in other cars.
Because it’s content. But he’s at the point now that it’s not financially smart to blow up this engine for content. A $20k LS? Whole different story
An LS?😍
I've been saying for a long time that C McF. . .k blows stuff up / crashes on purpose ( based on thumbnails that cross my page ) and fan bois have called me various names. Well. . . . ... .
He was out of the running for first place at this point so he was looking for an excuse to bow out.
Steve, much respect for the live teardown on Mullet's engine! There isn't many people, let alone very competent people like you that are willing to show being puzzled on camera. That could have been easily edited out, yet it was left in and I have respect for that sir.
I am wondering if the oil pump is having an issue again or possibly the camshaft. If I remember right, he said he dropped some oil pressure right, which prompted the whole inspection to begin with?
I think it’s the pump to because what else can have material and not put it anywhere in the engine
Or sending unit, that electronic stuff takes a crap all the time
Has cleetus finally grown up? Heavens forbid lol. Oil pump wear ? or a crap oil pressure sending unit. Motor looks too perfect to be anything serious. Over abundance of caution rules the day.
@@jaredweingartner3871 It is likely the pump if anything. It could be leftover trash in a line or from making all the new lines and not flushing them, but I doubt they skip that step. It seems to be making material so out of all my options, pump makes the most sense to me.
That was right after the last race he had, right?
If i remember correctly, one of the turbos was having oil feeding issues, maybe the turbo got a bit torn up and sent little pieces through the return line, which is why there is no metal to be found in the engine itself
Wouldn't you think you'd still see it in the pan though since it has to go to the pan via return line? I'm not sure but it's a very good thought.
And it was being fed fine but they had leaking issues from the seal I believe right?
This is my guess as well or I don't know oil flow direction or remember if the oil lines and cooler were changed when the other oil pump let ot maybe some residual trash caught in the lines
Does the oil return from the turbos feed the pan, or direct to the scavange side of the pump?
I am not 100 percent sure of the oil flow on these motors , but first thought is inspect the oil pump.This is interesting , and am looking forward to Steve's final analysis. Many thanks for the video.
Im waiting to see what's the verdict but my guess would be oil pump or residual material in lines. Either way great work Steve keep up the great work!
As for Garret's abundance of caution, it's because the price difference between LS and SMX motors will tend to do that.
more than likely the down time if it completely grenades
isnt it sm to smx like differance?
When did he ever have a LS in the El Cammino?
@@KimiWallrus i not 100% when it first got built at KSR
@williamherzog6920 that was the first motor ever put in from cleetus 427 texas speed
Steve is so genuine and just a wealth of knowledge.
100% I wish we had RUclips in the 80s before I spent thousands on school with premadana instructors. I could have saved a lot of money.
Did they clean the oil pump last time ?
Awesome quick peek Steve. I think one fragment of the broken valve-spring has found it's way to the oil-pump.
Always check if all the broken parts can make it complete again. If something is missing it still is in the engine. Good luck with the rebuild.
I think some is still leftover from the bad pump
@@MrKennyandersthere’s a good chance the oil pump is eating itself again there’s a reason alot of people won’t run that brand pumps anymore
@@54raceman if you go back to the video where they took the pump apart, you can see Steve notices the small filter 'hat' protecting the pump inlets in the sump from big chunks entering is missing some material, which can't have gone anywhere but into the pump, causing it to grind itself to pieces
The amount of knowledge Steve puts out there through all of his break downs and explanations is amazing. So cool to see a master of the craft sharing his knowledge for the love of the craft and sport. Rock on man.
Best guess oil pump. If I remember correctly he lost oil pressure and then you guys found material in the filter. Possibly cracked gerotor letting it expand and started eating the housing of the pump.
90% sure they are all gear pumps on that system, could be pump cavitation though
I love how the diagnosis is practically real-time. We get to see it as you see it. Also, takes a lot of confidence and knowledge to let us see you work through it in your head without an edit where you come back with the perfect answer.
The word you're searching for on the soft bearing "swipe" is burnishing. We saw our buddy Dewey make his cameo which is always a well appreciated breath of fresh air. Such a good doggo! Cheers!
Ya cant knock an "over abundance of caution" ...
As a mechanic with his own business...and just dealing with the general public...let alone masterpieces that you have built Steve! That look, perform and id think would be worth a million bucks...your motors are Picasso grade art bro. Mad love n respect from Western Australia!
The production quality of the channel keeps getting better. You’re finding your flow. Love it.
We used to use ferrography to analyze used oil to try and figure out where the wear was coming from. You could really get a lot of good information with one simple test. It can tell the difference between babbitt material, aluminum, iron/steel wear and carbon sludge. It does require the ferrography equipment and a microscope but they can be put together relatively cheaply.
Steve, you are getting so good at the videos! Thank you for sharing your knowledge! It's simply amazing how detailed you are!
And does it without being boring. So glad he keeps the channel going!
Is it possible that the metal could be coming from the gears in the oil pump?
Thinking cleetus team rebuilt the pump bc it was ate up when they first got the SMX
absolutely love these videos thank you for keeping them coming. Cletus being cautious just shows how much he respects your knowledge and your motors
And how much he values this SMX. I'd say this motor will join the only other one he'll treat like his son-gently. The SMX and Carbon Cub motors.
I could see Cletus being cautious. Ever since he had that kid he’s been doing safety stuff. Wears eye AND ear protection at the same time now.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's already lost noticable hearing honestly and James is right there with him in that dept. :(
Once again the Master Teacher is in the house. Thanks again for another great lesson. I love going to this School 😊
I would check the oil pump for wear before the engine tear down. It appears Garrett is growing up, he was hell bent on blowing up engines a few months ago.
Didn't someone eat an oil pump recently and it was throwing stuff into the filter? Was it SM or CM or someone else...??
Yes, especially when considering that the oil pump was absolutely destroyed on the last inspection teardown.
@@superkillr I think it was GM.
Not up top, not down below, the material had to come from somewhere. Seems like the next logical place to look.
Parenthood will do that to ya. You start thinking about blowing up at 210 and not going home to the family.
So you do your best to NOT blow up at 210.
Ah i love Steve Morris school sessions. Your explanations about everything is great and helps me understand what is going on
You really are in for a treat if you ever meet him in person, He took time out of his day to explain an issue to me I was having couldn’t understand over the phone was told to come by the shop lol he literally schooled me and very humble guy
What i love most about Steve when you see that puzzled confused look you know something up. Watch sinch that motor blew all 8 rods that looks i have seen 5-6 times everytime there has been something found. I belive there will be something maybe oil pump if the lines have not been flushed id scope them to check them. Keep it up steve these video's are why i keep coming back.
This turned into a great video! Im really hooked on seeing more of what could have been the issue! Im almost wondering if it was material from all the lines they made for it. I know its been in there for a little bit but what if some debris started to come out of his hoses?
I love when Detective Steve solves a mystery! Next video we will know what’s up with the Cleetus motor. Now if he can only figure out his own issues with that trans and converter. Stay on it Steve!,👍👍
My hunch may be that a line or fitting between the pump and filter held some trash from thrust bearing #1, and that finally showed up in the filter. In fact, I seem to remember that even being suggested in the day 3 video.
Thank you for coming to Union Grove. It was awesome to see you work at Great Lakes Dragaway. Keep doing amazing stuff.
time for you to add a lockup convertor to your automatic Steve. I am thinking cavitation / fluid shear at high rpm as you overpower the stator is causing the heat buildup within the convertor itself. Especially looking at your fluid changes. 900F fluid temps non localized would burn the fluid black as the ace of spades. Yet that is not happening. So all the heat to blue the Stainless is being generated within the convertor itself, and that localized fluid. a lockup clutch will solve that issue :)
You go into so much detail about the motors 👍
Awesome work brother love somebody that isn’t afraid to put their work under scrutiny of the world trying to figure out what could possibly be wrong
Steve oil pump? Possible stuff stuck in oil lines? From the last oil pump problem?
I could listen to you tell me about engines all day! I just really find it fascinating to learn about. I love learning more about engines than what I know already. Love your videos steve ❤🤘🏻😎
A true professional will always look for more knowledge. Steve is a pro. He don’t care if it’s his fault though it’s not much but he wants answers no matter the end result. Nice work.
Glad to see the SMX not hurt, we did see he hurt a turbo. Could the debris come from the turbo? Doesn't the turbo drain directly back to the pan? Just an idea, love the honest videos
This was the same thing i was thinking but the oil pan is clean. I'm wondering if its just past issues stuck in the sump system.
I think the turbos would go to the scavenge side of the oil pump. I'm betting they find something in the pump...either from the turbo or the pump itself. There was debris in the filter (IIRC) and it was leaking from the rear main seal. But they know the converter is having trouble handling the power and getting REAL hot...so that might have cooked the seal. They're really pushing this automatic trans with this much power.
Was going to ask same thing
As a turbo builder. Ball bearings/debris can fall into the pan after a bearing failure. BUT cleets turbos were just smoking. Turbos won't drop anything in that scenario.
Possible cam bearing? Or do you use roller cam bearings?
Steve you guys are awesome! Absolutely love your mannerisms and the way you carry yourself throughout these videos! 🙌🙌🙌
So many people could learn from your character the humbleness & joy to teach others and not belittle anyone!!
Bravo sir
Steve always shows integrity in his knowledge and ability to chase down any type of issue that can or does occur. It makes something good even better looking for the weak links for the future development of the high performance engines that he builds.
Steve, absolutely love the videos, I was there at Great Lakes dragway, ur car looked absolutely beautiful! As far as I recall from standing in the pits with cleetus, Zach had said there was some material in the oil filter, the throttle body cable had snapped and after the 6.87 pass he was at the end of the strip for quite awhile. I heard cleetus and Zach talking about having 80psi of oil pressure in the burnout box, but by the end of the run it was 15-20psi. When they put the zip ties on the throttle body and got back up to the burnout box in the quick turnaround, it did not sound healthy, couldn’t make boost or do a easy burnout like mullet normally does. After his second attempt I was back in the pits, watching and it seemed like it could’ve been another rocker or rod, but Zach was showing something in the bottom oil pan to one of ur guys from ur team or anyone that came over to help. Anyway I hope this helps in some way, keep up ur videos!!
Taking analytical approach (1)source of debris (2) loss of oil pressure. So with no signs of damage in engine other sources to consider = oil pump internals, oil lines, oil tank, TURBOS and their respective lines.
Anyway typical great video showing all, including your perplexing looks, Thanks Steve!
Awesome to see Steve actually a little confused as to what the issue is. Great content Steve please let us know the outcome!
This is what i love most about Steve's workmanship. I have seen that same puzzled and confused look on his face I say 5-6 times since it blew all eight rods. What I love is the fact that he will not stop till he finds the source. Every time something has been found
Love these detailed break-down videos. Really appreciate everything you all do.
Hopefully it’s good to go. I’d be checking and cleaning all the oil lines, fittings, and the tank itself. Maybe turn the engine 90 degrees at a time and recheck the thrust. I can’t see that making a difference though.
Maybe something is just on the tight/loose end when warm
Possible there was residual shavings in the oil pump, oil lines or oil canister that hit the filter.
I had the same issue with a clear view filter showing material in the filter and the pan was spotless.
It was the Peterson Oil Pump
What is causing the pop and back pressure in Garret’s passenger side turbo?
Curious myself. Does it consistently on the burnout now
Same - that's my thinking also - could it be shedding some crap into the oil filter? Bearing, compressor etc...
That turbo started leaking oil from seals, probably just oil burning and popping at the turbine side
He shut it down for low oil pressure and metal in the filter. Hard to tell in the video how much movement there was in the crank at the track. Had like 9lbs oil pressure driving it back. What would be normal for that scenario? how concerned are you with the amount of metal in the oil filter they showed on the video? They also had a throttle position sensor issue on the last run as well. It’ll be interesting to see what you find with his motor and your trans converter.
@@ElliHarper sounds logical
There’s nothing worse than a problem that fixes itself. Always makes me want to find the thing that might have done something.
Playing hide and seek with a gremlin is never fun.
Ya gotta love the sped up footage…sounds like an e-walk disassembling the engine….love it
19:50. HEY STEVE IT'S THE ROLLER THRUST IN THE REAR AND TURN THE CRANK WHEN MESURING THRUST BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE SPOTS WHERE IT WONT AND SPOTS THAT WILL MOVE ALOT
Once again, super informative video. Thinking about pulling the pan on my race car just to see (my car is an 11sec street/strip machine... OK... high 11s.)
Anyway, at some point, do you have to suspect the vacuum/oil pump? How do you setup the belts on those?
@SME...Fellas just a heads up on the edit. The speed up time lapse to cover unwanted discussions in your videos can be slowed down to 25% playback on RUclips for people to hear. Love your work.
Juicing the algo, great channel Steve!! Props to your wife for making this happen for us!!
Fleccas talks!
Tickle tickle
Curious what the dry sump scavenge pump looks like
I saw the drain pan in Union Grove when Garretts co pilot was filming the gold in the pan. There was a lot of material in the drain pan!
Mullet blew up a bunch of motors over the course of its life, prior to the SMX. Remember just prior to the SMX was the "full hand grenade" of 80 psi boost controller malfunction! There is most likely residual "crap" in one of the following locations: oil cooler, turbo oil passage or an inside corner of the oil tank. Most of the lines were changed when Cleetus changed to the SMX but, there are probably some that stayed the same (turbo returns). In road racing when we loose a motor we change all of the above and clean the lines on a dry sump application. Ultrasonic cleaning works for the turbo bodies (after disassembly) and the oil tank, that is pretty straight forward, you can do that in-house with a decent ultrasonic cleaner. The oil coolers in most of our cars are inside the radiator (coolant to oil cooler) not air to oil, it is not a separate oil radiator. This is pretty much due to space limitations and a quicker oil temp warm up. There are a bunch of companies around who are set up to clean these type of small tube coolers, both integrated in one unit and 2 separate coolers. Always have a spare that is clean. One of the bummers of a dry sump system is that there is a TON of stuff to clean when a motor blows up, and you have to do it. Since you are seeing crap re-appear in the pressure stage of the pump and filter my guess is that there is a small colony of garbage in one of the turbo passages or turbo return lines. This dumps a little shiny stuff into the oil tank from time to time and that ruins the pressure stage of the pump and shows in the filter. Nothing ever makes it into the engine. Short story swift, clean the ENTIRE oil system in the car, including the lines, various housings and heat exchangers, then put the freshened motor back in. I am not a fan of in-line screen filters in the scavenge side oil lines as I have had my issues with them. Steve, I love your videos. You do a great job with your motors and offer fantastic customer service. It's great to see someone else who likes to turn money into velocity and noise!
Really looking forward to see cleetus, tom and steve battle each other on the track when all their mechanical dramas are sorted.
Wouldn’t really be much of a battle if each makes a clean pass because their times in “drag racing times” are quite different. What should happen on paper is Tom will win, Steve will be 2nd, and Cleetus will come in 3rd.
Steve will repair any breakdowns so they can beat him😂
Looking for a 6:10 winner. Track condition will dictate sub 6.
Cleatus will never have his mechanical issues sorted, because he keeps messing with stuff that doesn’t need to be messed with, instead of working systematically to solve a problem. He’s too reactive, the only reason he’s competitive is because of an almost unlimited wallet. If he didn’t have the cash, he’d be last every time.
As a engine builder I believe you just put caution first, and didn't want anything to go wrong and cost either you or Garret $$$$ Safe and great call. SMX lives to race another day>
There is still a problem but it's not the engine causing the low oil pressure it's the converter pressure that's that issue and Cleetus is resolving that on his end
I don't think it's just the converter that's the problem. And it wasn't just because of over cautious. His oil pressure dropped to 9psi. That's EXTREMELY low. I think his oil pump was eating itself alive, causing debris and low oil pressure. Maybe the converter having too much pressure is what caused the oil pump to fail. What else could cause debri & low oil pressure? Debri alone wouldn't cause oil pressure to drop to 9psi.
might be worth going through the oil pump just to be safe
Man Steve, every time I watch your videos I feel like I just got an education for free! I can't thank you enough for doing this kind of service for humanity. We need more smart people in the worst way. If you keep putting them out, I'll keep watching and learning. Thank you! Also, could be the oil pump that is leaving metal in the filter. Maybe?
Those are always fun where you don't find the culprit where you think it might be! 😁
Thank you Steve for the lesson!!. Your the best bro!. I hope to get the chance to meet you and all the racers and hopefully get to race again one day soon hopefully!.
I thought he made the decision to stop because it seemed to be low on oil pressure 🤔 I'll be very interested to see if Steve finds something when he tears it down properly
its the oil pump!
@@paulcook8700 and you know that though magic or X ray vision? 🤣🤣
@@smh28v6 deduction. pre-pump is good, post-filter is good, bearings and clearances are good (or will be when measured), filter is dirty, it's gotta be case wear of the pump or there's leftover shrapnel being caught in the hoses from a previous failure.
Just looked at the video and what is major here is the low oil pressure. If theres nothing wrong with the engine, then it HAS to be the oil pump. Goes straight from the pump to filter right? And no material anywhere else. It makes the most sense. And Garrett stopping actually did save the engine, it would've blown up if the pump was going out.
I did not watch part 2 yet but possibly the oil pump going bad again….. going to watch right now!
The shop dog knew what was wrong with just the first sniff after you opened the crate 😂
Steve is it possible that the material found in the filter, could be coming from the oil pump itself, like the pump have a bad bear or something causing it to eat itself?
or dirty lines?
Steve would it be beneficial to use larger diameter trans fluid lines and larger fittings on the trans? Possibly with the lines and fittings you are currently using being smaller,could that cause the pressure to increase under load and cause the fluid to overheat? Just a thought.
Line size wouldn't cause pressure differences.
@@johncarter1137 It could impede flow causing temps to rise.
Cosine error at 17:47
Just bustin balls Steve.
Great content - keep it up!!!
The metal is coming from the inside of a hose on mullet side, from where the hose attached to the engine to the see through filtering system
Once Cleeter and crew get Mullet dialed in, I'd love to see a Mullet vs. Wagon series of races. Not a grudge match, more like sibling rivalry. The idea being that the winner would get some goofy trophy, and y'all do a best 2/3 series once a year... either during the off season or make it part of a Race Week deal where the best slips at 3 tracks wins that year or something.
Mullet has already been much faster than the wagon but I like your idea
@@nalley6815hat’s Steve’s best ET? I thought it was 6.5 at 230. Not much different than Mullet.
Battle of the beasts!
3600 lb cars going low 6s
@@philb5593 could be. Not sure
This channel should be growing faster. I feel for the guys who haven’t found Steve’s channel💪💪
He's growing pretty fast, not long ago he was less than 100k subs. At this rate he will hit a million within the year
Maybe the hoses were not cleaned totally from oil pump. Also a major point on your torque convertor. We're your hoses properly flushed, a restriction will cause heat to increase. Just questioning. Great videos, and I do learn a lot.
Your getting down to the minutia that being a good craftsmen requires... and most youtubers don't seem to fall in that category, esp attention hounds like Cleetus. I would not be surprised if that debris came from making or remaking an oil line that didn't get cleaned out well from the chop saw, or maybe debris left in the dry sump tank or system from the last blow up. IF the debris is actually from the inside of that motor, given the history of it (if I am thinking right) MAAAAYBE you have something that has been left in the blind side of the oil holes that feed the rods from the mains. Brake cleen thru a straw with the tip bent is the only way to flush that out and I have seen that on most any crank thats been turned or polished.... My .02.... Thanks for the vid, hope to see the results...
Boy going fast sure is expensive 😜👍
Been that way forever...
Love that i live in an age that we can watch a legend disassemble his own equipment!
Steve, as for your convertor, have you ever checked the pressure delta through the cooler? I'm wondering if the cooler is flowing too fast to cool the fluid.
i think the pump is blown. cleeter lost oil pressure then it came back after it cooled down (pump had wear causing the pressure loss at high temp then once cooled the pressure came back because of the clearances in the pump tightening back up.) the material in the filter is from the pump eating itself. the lack of debris anywhere else points to the issue being after the oil leaves engine and before the filter and the only thing in that position is the pump and a few feet of oil line.
If you watch all cleets vids on the motor you’d see tons of material in the oil pans and ect. Just no material atm at your shop. But to much material all in all for something to not be torn up. Don’t chase the material that’s currently in motor because it’s all been evacuated
Look inside the oil pump, I have seen external dry sumps shear off and create material in the filter
Had an issue with the r4 pump recently, found all 3 scavenge gears were wearing themselves away on the housing, gaining excessive clearance and throwing material into the clear view screen. I wouldn't be surprised if that's where some of your material has came from. Since changing from the peterson r4 pump with the twisted rotor design to a moroso gear style i haven't had an issue with material in the filter.
Turbo oil lines are not independently filtered, could be coming from them but that would still show in the oil pan unless the lines go to some other port on the engine rather than the oil pan
Do you ever carry out laboratory analysis of the oil? Previously had it done and indicated the metal/alloy type that enables it to be narrowed down to bearing material, alloys or steel from valve train etc
A magnet can tell you alot before an oil analysis...
It’s the oil pump Steve. I had the same problem it was the gear sets in the pump. That was causing the issue.
the only thing i can possibly think of is either that oil pump or old debris from when it blew up that never fully got out of it. motor looks great!
Maybe something in the pump itself self clearanced, sending it up to the filter or maybe even one of the lines from the pump had material in it from before and that's what you saw? Did Cleeter & co put new lines on or re-use? If they re-used, did they flush them? One of those little details that gets missed if you're thrashing. Only other oiling involved is the turbos and they were leaking IIRC? Something there?? But now I'm guessing as I'm outside my knowledge. :)
I do like teardown videos like this though as I personally learn so much and it's great to understand how these motors work as it makes watching the content from guys like Cleetus that bit more interesting. Thanks for treating your viewers with this courtesy Steve, really appreciate it.
I was thinking a piece of valve spring went through the oil pump and the extra stuff is from the oil pump getting damaged by that piece. Honestly it was my first thoughts when you reminded about the spring. Furthermore, I thought there was more play in the thrust bearing from the video at the track. Looking forward to see what you find or don't find.
Could heat expansion make a difference in the measured and perceived thrust between at the track and in the shop?
some bot stole your comment and now they're top comment.
On the trans and converter, excessive clutch slipping will cause very drastic oil temp increases
Love the critical think for thought has anyone ever thought about the oil and addtive they use and the filtration maybe cause a situation were the filter is filtering things that biuld up to look like contaminants i dont now thats just thought with the high level of filtration and products today and some might be on his part because such a big boy toy he doesn't want to brake it keep up great work and glad to see u make think a thing again.
You know Steve, Garret must have highest respect for you and your product. When every fiber of the man's body is screaming "stop thinking and just SEND IT" and he still backs away!
I think we all know he has the coin for rebuilds and the stones to take it to 100%. But respect is what made him say no!
Appreciate the time you take to show us what’s going on.
I'm not even an engine builder but damn I respect Steve Morris and love watching these breakdowns.
Your presentations, information, and explanations, are excellent. So....I just subscribed to this channel. Thank you !
should check end play in a couple of rotations, I once found a crank to have been ground off center witch changed the thrust clearance from good to to tight in another. just a thought
That’s great Garret uses your engines and you are using his brakes. Very cool brother.
Hi Steve thanks for all your hard work . Has to be oil pump issue