Pontiac OHC in-line six engine family 230, 250
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- Опубликовано: 9 апр 2024
- Today on what it’s like engine episode Wednesday.. this one has been requested a lot in the comments.. Pontiac ohc in-line six. Designed by chief engineer of Pontiac at the time John DeLorean lots of cool information as well as literature on the screen. Enjoy this episode. =)
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What_its_like@yahoo.com
I got a lot of the information from this site
www.ohc6.com/history.html
And cross referenced
www.automobile-catalog.com/ma...
www.automobile-catalog.com/ma...
www.automobile-catalog.com/ma...
If you’d like to get in touch with me or shoot me a comment in the comment section below or check out our Facebook group to correlate with this RUclips channel by clicking the link below after the show
groups/70769...
If You would like to send me a private message shoot me an email
What_its_like@yahoo.com 
Авто/Мото
And We Danced by the Hooters.
Yessir!
Yeah buddy congratulations you got it =)
@@What.its.like. used to blast it in my 69 Malibu!
Thank you Jay for sharing one of Pontiac’s coolest engines too bad it was 10yrs ahead of the time/need for it I was just reading about this engine and apparently it was part of a larger project by Pontiac with a eye towards a OHC V-8 that never materialized. For the WYR I’d choose the 67 firebird and in the second choice the 69 lemans they are both beautiful cars from a great era heck even the wagon is very very nice, tuff choices Jay we appreciate it and wish you the best, keep up the great work 👍
The GM straight sixes are often underappreciated, and with a bit of hot rodding can be surprisingly potent. A while ago I went down the rabbit hole of Brazilian drag racing, where they never got the 350 V8 but they did get a car with Chevy's 230 straight six, so that's the engine they developed a speed parts industry for. They have drag cars with the 230 straight six making over 2,000 horsepower with a big turbocharger and machined aluminum blocks bolted to the sides of the engine to reinforce it. And they do all of that with the stock cylinder head and pushrods... Imagine what they could do if they had Pontiac's overhead cam version of that same basic engine design! I'd love to find a car with one of those engines someday and import a bunch of Brazilian performance parts for it.
I was a line mechanic for Oldsmobile 1969- 1972 that Pontiac engine was fantastic, but being Oldsmobile I was into the 442 , W30 W31 and the big boys 425, 455 engines, I did have a Pontiac Bonneville Bubble back 1961 , 389, 421 heads and tri power with a 4 speed auto , fast for that time
My memory of this engine,is when I was in high school im the early 70s,a friend of mine borrowed his father's 67 LeMans that had that engine with a 4 speed ,his Fathers pride and joy,he thrashed the holy hell out it hi RPM burn outs drag racing other cars and the engine munch the timing belt doing extensive damage to the cylinder head.His father was less than joyus when he picked us up that night,and even more so when he paid to have the car repaired,2 weeks later. I recall that it took my friend over 3 months to pay his father back,it goes without saying his father never let him near that car again,by the way the 66 LeMans for me.
Jay, it's another great job,thanks again for your hard work,and your research, always look forward to the next chapter.
Thank you so much for sharing those memories what a cool story I love that the father made the kid pay him back
My memory is mid 1960's Gymkhana events at Detroit Diesel/Flint Michigan parking lot by GMI (General Motors Institute/Kettering U.) students driving OHC 6 Tempests with 4 speeds in 1/8 mile drag trials... when clutch popped and exhilarator pedal floored, those cars made a strange bang explosion sound out of the tailpipes... and ran strongly...
We had a 67 LeMans. I very much remember that the car proudly displayed it had an OHC6 in it.
And WHY didnt they just cut off 2 cylinders and use this as the 4 cyl engine for the 1970s???? ie Vega?
Collectable Automobile Magazine asked the same question,when they did an article on the OHC Pontiac engine in their latest issue.
B A L A N C E !! Don’t quit you day job.
@@lawrencewiddis2447 they can't balance four cylinders,have you only been around Neons,and half of Pontiac 389s?
@@lawrencewiddis2447 They can also shorten the stroke which can make it easier to balance a four cylinder engine,so can I retire from my day job?
The 1970 Nova used the 153 inline four that was also based on the 230 Cevy six. A version is still built - the Vortec 3000 industrial engine. Vega with the 153 wouldn't have won Motor Trend's Car of the Year, but a dependable Vega would mostly be known for rust today
My high school auto shop in the 1970s had a shiny new one on a stand for students to learn tune-ups, etc.
In 1969 Pontiac styling lost its way, stepping away from the vertical pair headlights to a horizontal arrangement. My family did have a 1966 Pontiac Lemans with the overhead cam six. It was a really nice car with lots of get up and go, even with the Powerglide transmission. My sister also had a forest green 67 Firebird with this engine. Both were sweet driving cars.
We used to find the sprint engines and install them in the old Chevy trucks (48 to 54 series). It was a super easy install and really woke those old trucks up!
I never even thought of that that would be a really cool improvement. I have a 52 Chevy 1 ton truck that has a 350 V8 in it. It only makes 150 hp but I honestly believe that that was the combination it needed. it’s good enough to move it down the road 80 miles an hour and get about 20 miles to the gallon. It’s got a different rear end. It’s sitting up on high tires.
Thanks, l never knew much about this engine.
When I was young, there was a beige two door 68 Le Mans with that engine in it in my neighborhood.
Hi Justin, it's me, "Dave" and you did it again! You produced an 100% accurate automotive history video! The OHC (over head cam) design is more efficient for fuel economy and horse power and it is the only practical way to produce an twin cam and/or a multi valve (more than two valves per cylinder) engine versus an OHV (overhead valve) engine. But the trouble is there is much more harmonic vibration and noise because the camshaft is further away from the crankshaft, making it so that the timing chain and/or timing belt suffers from belt or chain "slap" and much more noise and vibration. The timing belt is meant to absorb harmonic vibration and noise. By todays standards, opposite rotating countershafts and double roller timing chains with plastic guides are mostly used today, but in the mean time, back in 1964, as far as I know, this was the very first regular production American OHC (overhead cam) engine. And it was that was supported John DeLorean (head of Pontiac Motor Division at the time) John DeLorean wanted to produce a "High Performance 6" and In my opinion, this engine took over where the (1961-1963) Pontiac Trophy 4 engine left off, "High Performance 4" (a Pontiac 389 V8 cut in half) that was also a resalt from DeLorean. Both engine(s) where offered exclusively in the Pontiac Tempest/LeMans. Please produce a video on the Pontiac on the Pontiac Trophy 4 engine! Please reply. Dave...
Glad you dig this video thank you so much for sharing all the insight and information as well =)
I had one of these engines in a Pontiac LaMans and after driving it from Washington state to North Dakota and back, the cylinder walls warped. I needed to have the engine rebuilt. It never did run right after that. I'm sure they were good engines but I might have had a lemon. Boy that was a nice car -- it was sporty looking and fun to drive..
That’s crazy. Thank you so so much for sharing your experience with owning this engine.
67 Firebird Spint and the 69 LeMans ragtop.
GM beancounters hated the OHC six. In 1970 it was dropped because it didn't fit the new F body Firebird. Yet it fit in the Banshee. A lot of the mid 70s Nova clones from Pontiac, Olds and Buick used the Chevy inline six. Which could have been adapted to use the Pontiac head by driving the OHC by using the existing camshaft as a Jack Shaft for the 2:1 speed reduction.
I almost bought a '67 Firebird with a Sprint engine and 4 speed trans. My Mom said no as it leaked oil supposedly. So i passed it up. This was in 1970. '67 Firebird pleased:) 2nd is Firebird again.
WYR: Firebird and Firebird. The Sprint Six/Firebird combo has been on my wish list for years. I cannot believe Pontiac did not bring back this engine when the fuel crisis happened. Buick bought (yes, BOUGHT) its 3.8 engine back, and it was a great engine, but this for Pontiac would have been a great fit as well. Especially for performance applications. Thank you as always, well done ~ Chuck
thanks again jay I "TOTALLY DIG" the engine episodes
=) me too love doing them
Another great engine overview, Jay! Well done.
Thank you happy you dig this one
If you wanted an automatic transmission with the Pontiac OHC 6, the only ones available were both 2-speed, first the ST300 and then the PowerGlide.
In the early 2k's, a customer brought in a '67 Firebird Sprint convertible which originally had the 3.8 6 and an ST300 automatic. He had put a HiPo Pontiac 350 V8 in it. I told him that an ST300 made for a 6 wasn't strong enough to handle the V8 power. I just happened to have a TH350 which I had pulled out of an Oldsmobile Delta 88 350 V8 diesel. I told him that it would be able to handle his engine's power. I made him an offer that I would give him the TH350 if he would pay me to go through it and beef it up, and install it. Within a blink of an eye, he said OK.
In swaps like these, speedometer calibration was an issue. I either just swapped the speedo drive and driven gears or I used the correct ratio from my stock.
The TH350, ST300 and the PowerGlide all are the same length and use the same size of output shaft, so the same driveshaft was useable for any of these A/T's.
Thank you so much for sharing that added information and insight
That harmonica is gonna bug the living shit outta me. Im sure i know it
Haha 🤣
@@What.its.like. didnt bug me for too long lol
They should’ve kept updating and developing it. Make a Pony car or grand touring roadster with a turbocharged DOHC, crossflow, MFI, all-aluminium 3.0L I6, with an emphasis on handling.
Totally agree
So sad that Pontiac is gone, they were great innovators!
I had a 66 Tempest Sprint with a 3 speed manual that later got the larger 69 Sprint motor.
You could find an OHC 6 in the 1964 willys overland, it was a great engine.
It was named the "Tornado", and displaced 230 cid. Not a performance engine, tho, as it had a pretty long stroke, and was designed to be torquey, not powerful. I think they only made that engine 2 or 3 years. I've never seen one, but I have an article about it from 1962.
Awesome
The US military continued using the Tornado for a few more years after it was dropped from civilian use. A single cam lobe was used for both the intake and exhaust on each cylinder, so six cylinders, six cam lobes! I’ve never seen one either, it’s trivial knowledge you can use to impress your friends.
@61rampy65 I have a friend that had a travel all with that engine, not a power house, but it would climb a tree.
Ownnig any of these with a factory OHC six would be cool . Would be a rare find . Like the chevy II's with the four banger or a 70 barracuda or Charger with a slant six . Awesome !
WYR 1 and 2 LeMans. Worked on a few of these engines. Good design and pretty bulletproof. My mother in law had one in her Tempest.
Awesome choices I would love to drive a vehicle with one of these in them to very intriguing engine concept
If you have a real interest and want a more in-depth look at the 1966-1969 Pontiac OHC 6 keep an eye out for the June issue of Collector Automobile Magazine. You will be glad you did.
That timing belt was invented by Hans Glas, a German car manufacturer. The Glas had an OHC 4 cyl. Very low production, I have never seen one, just ads for it. Glas also made a microcar called the Goggomobil, but they were 2 cyl/2 stroke engines. Car & Driver did a road test of a 66 LeMans Sprint with 4 speed. They liked it, but said you could get a GTO for only a little more $. Car Life road tested a LeMans 4 door with 2 speed automatic. They liked it too, but also said that you could get a V8 for about the same money, and that the gas mileage was no better than if you had a V8.
Awesome insight thank you so much for sharing that
A couple of these used to come into the gas station where I pumped gas in high school. I got to see them because they burned oil. They were both in older cars and most higher mile engines burned oil in those days so that isn't necessarily a knock on the OHC 6. The owners were impressed with them though and they were generally well thought of back in the day. I'd choose the 1968 LeMans and the 1969 LeMans. I love the mid-size GM cars of that era.
New cars are just as bad there’s a lot of models out there that burn oil especially after their five 6-10 years old. The only thing that doesn’t burn oil is an electric car… they all leak/burn eventually
All 3 with the high compression ohc 250 cid. I wish they'd put gear driven ohc and not that belt or a chain.
Bring the OHC back with Kevlar timing belt.
Jay, I sold that car, back in '82, for $1,500.oo . With that $, I've bought the MOST BEAUTIFUL M/C I've seen. A "1975, Honda CB400F, SuperSport. I own it, till this day! Soon though, I shall sell it, I WAS 19 yrs, now, I'm 60yrs. I want for someone to buy it, and own it and RIDE IT! It's a survivor. It's just as it was, when I've bought it. The "RED" model.
I have a '69 Firebird with the OHC6 and a manual trans. Many people don't know that Pontiac did an engineering exercise that put an OHC head with a similar design to the 6 on a 428 V8. It cost too much to produce at the time. Just think if it had gone into production!
Thank you so much for sharing all that information and insight. I will have to check out that engine.
LEMANS AND LEMANS
Sweet choices =)
My first car was a '67 Tempest. One cam lobe was shot. I harvested a cam/ cover in a salvage yard from a '68 Firebird. Cam gear timing mark was 180° different.😖
Lol - What you were seeing was the crank was on the wrong rotation. You set the cam and if you can lock it right on the mark - then you put the crank on IT'S mark but it has to be the "first revolution" and not "the second revolution. (which would be a half of a camshaft revolution = 180 degrees)
OHV & OHC is redundant I believe. Overhead valve differentiates the design from a flathead. Overhead cam differentiates it once again, but assumes overhead valves. These are awesome engines.
I had a '67 tempest 2 dr. with the sprint engine, 3 speed on the floor. Great car, would out-drag most 8 cyl. cars. Decent on gas, a ball to drive. It got hit, still sold it for more than I paid for it.
Great story thank you so much for sharing those memories =)
Don't make me "Sophie's Choice" those Pontiacs, I'd take them ALL!
Hahaha nice
i like the Wagon, I had a overhead cam in a jeep pickup, seems like it was a 230, just saying, thanks for the info.
In the 1930s, Lycoming made an engine that was OHC and four valves per cylinder. It was a motor for the ADC cars. Look it up and do a video on it.
I wanna do it engine episode on that
@What.its.like. I really liked the last video you did on that big v16. You found a car I had never heard of before. Thank you for that.
@What.its.like. Another cool car, the Aperson Jack Rabit from 1907. It was said that it made 75 miles per hour. In 1907 that was flat out flying. But for the 1906 Stanley Steamer setting the world record at 126.27 MPH.
Hi Jay! The Pontiac OHC-6 was an engine I was always fascinated with in high school. Even though they had been out of production for over a decade! The four-barrel versions especially were interesting. I think that a Firebird with that engine would be interesting to own. I know that back in the day Hot Rod magazine had a series about building your own dragster that used the OHC 6. I believe they were getting 250 h.p. or more out of the sprint engine. WYR #1 Firebird!! WYR#2 That COOL LeMans Convertible!
Cool choices
Great information =) and insight as always
Jay Leno has a Firebird with the ohc 6 engine. He likes it a lot.
For ages, I have been thinking, if I was building a warm-rod US car, of a 1949-52 Chevrolet Fleetline 2-door with a Pontiac 250 ohc 6 Sprint engine. Not SBC or LS.
Yes Pontiac should have revised & returned this engine to production in the late 70's. It showed that GM were capable of innovation, but much preferred to go down the "Cheap & Nasty" path & build popular but badly designed V8 engines. So Chryslers Slant 6, Fords 240/300 & AMC's 232/258 were not the only worthwhile engines made in the US.
GILMER belt, not glamar belt! The 4 barrel carb was a Rochester spread bore - small primaries and very large secondaries.
.
if u watch tube, u will have seen the 302" flathead with Ardun heads and modified valvetrain and skirted bottom end make over 700hp. It is not the motor, it is the heads and cam.
Ardun is Duntov's design ( From his first name and last name) . He spent 4 years trying to get Ford buy his design.
Buddy of mine had / or his dad , had a tempest with this engine and a three speed transmission floor shift and the car was fast ! Later , messing with it we found it had a 4 bbl. Carb . Damn !
Later - he hit a telephone pole with his girlfriend in the car - A mess I felt bad for him .
It was pretty similar to Opel CIH (cam in head eengines) as far as the sohc heads were concerned
only seen pictuers of them, almost 60 years later i still cant see the use of a belt driven cam, chain and gear drive last so much longer
First thing you had to do was change that back to ohv most blew up 60 jeep wagons had a ohv 6 cam too
Last one I saw was going to the smelter to make some new manhole covers and I helped lol
The LeMans wagon, something cool and different about it. Manual trans if available.
Awesome choice
I had a 1968 firebird with the ohc inline 6 250cid 250 hp 4 barrel guadrojet carb 3 speed transmisson, one bad ass, my friends with ss 396 chevells could beat me in a 1/4 mile but after 100 mph it was over for them all .
Those 4.56 gears are hell after about 400 yards … 😁
This weekend i will be waking our family 67 Firebird up from its winter nap. 230 OHC6!!!
Awesome what do you think of that car? You really dig it do you have the sprint, model, automatic or manual, convertible or hardtop?
@@What.its.like. it is a silver glaze 2 door hard top OHC6 1bbl ST300 2 speed with 2.56 open rear end. My grandmother bought it new on April 28th 1967.
Awesome thank you for sharing your car with us
Sounds like a winner in a Firebird with a manual 4 speed . Maybe a unique TA ?
i had a 1969 tempest with the 250
Sweet how did you like it
@@What.its.like. i only had it for about a year i picked it up from a garage to pay the check out fee $105 it had a burnt piston and valve so replaced piston new rings bearings valve job . a rear wheel bearing . paint job and it looked great . then someone came along and made me an offer and it was gone . but out of the cars i have had the one that got away was the 66 impala 2 door red
As everyone knows, I'm a big fan of John Z. From his start, he always looked at European cars which at the time had some of the more advanced engine designs as well as some better developed chassis. As popular as the V8 was here, it wasn't a hit in Europe where fuel was more costly and cars were lighter making for less power needed to attain high speeds with better handling. John Z. wanted to offer that to the American public thinking they too would come to see the advantages, but we didn't. V8 was for fast and powerful and 6cyl was for economy here, so the advanced design meant nothing to the average buyer who wouldn't use the higher performance it offered. It did help keep Pontiac a notch or two above Chevy in the market as they had nothing comparable.
For WYR I love the old Firebirds, again a cut above Chevy's offerings as to style and class.
Awesome choices totally agree. Thank you so much for sharing all that insight and information. Greatly appreciate it. I wish they would’ve made the banshee
any Firebird Sprint with a 4 speed manual.
Had a 1968 Firebird with one in it. I could routinely beat a friend in his V8 Chevelle in a drag race from stop light to stop light. Needless to say he was somewhat unhappy...
Doubt it
@@justina3221 believe what you want to. It happened. That six with a Manuel trans would keep up with that V8 two barrel automatic heavier Chevelle in stop light to stop light...
Seen one in the 67 temp. It was a friends
My sister had a Firebird with one of these engines. The car got towed because she made a poor parking decision, and she never went to get the car back! Unbelievable. Didn't they have a valve lubrication issue or some other top end problem as they got miles on them?
why is the pic of the of the 1969 Le Mons backwards?
It’s flipped so that it’s the same angle as the other two
Hooters..and we danced.. video filmed in my hometown of Exton , Pa on business 30 at the Exton drive in movies.
Great information =) that’s the name of the song and band
I'm surprised the British weren't interested in this engine.
Me too it seems like a good design aside from belt driven cam ( rarely are things perfect in life)
The hooters !
It seems strange, going to the trouble of designing a new OHC cylinder head, and not taking advantage of what it has to offer. A deep breathing cross flow Hemi head, the cam on top is the magic that significantly simplifies the valve gear to make it work, but instead, they stuck with the tired old wedge head
Innovative engine parallels Cadillac custom engineering the Olds straight 8 for the the 34-36 LaSalle. Car companies had creative engineering and marketing. Now just bland everyday throwaway cars ("appliances "). First and second choice both Le Mans, dark green.
Definitely, Firebird
Firebird, Firebird.
Sweet choices =)
66 Tempest Wagon and the 69 La Mans convertible. .
Cool choices
WYR 1: All of them.
WYR 2: All of them.
Sweet choices =)
Firebird,firebird !!!
67 Firebird, 69 Le Mans
Sweet choices
Alright Jay, > GOOD JOB! I've owned one of these, in a '68 Pontiac Firebird, it was a 250 C/I, 1 bbl. put out 155 HP, it was a Muncie 3-speed. it had a black interior and a consol, with bucket seats. I traded FOR it, a '71 Datsun 510 Wagon. My buddy, who was married, had a child while in H.S. wanted more of a FAMILY CAR,. The Datsun was a 1600cc inline 4, with a 4-speed, and got 37 mpg, on the Hwy/Freeway (55mph). The Firebird////No man, the 250 Cu In. put out just 175HP, that was with the 4bbl carb. Mine was a 1 bbl. your #'s aren't correct. They cannot be. Sorry dude
I got a lot of the information from this site..
www.ohc6.com/history.html
Hey jay where is that blue 68 at not only is this my choice but i owned the twin to this car
Awesome choice
@@What.its.like. jay where did you get the picture of the blue 68 coupe with the rally wheels at ? Is this at a dealership?
I got it through Google search I have yet to see a car with the Pontiac overhead cam six in it
I honestly don’t know where the picture came from. I just found it on Google.
@@What.its.like. ok thanks
This could've been the American 2JZ
Tempest for both
Sweet choices
Firebird for #1 and #2.
Sweet choices
66 Tempest was the most handsome
As usual, GM dropped this engine because it was stronger , dependable, reliable, efficient, low maintenance, and last longer, and that , definitely, is against GM Mission Statement.
Haha against their mission statement.. that’s pretty funny
Is it a Rod Stewart song?
Nope
The Firebird then Lemans.
Sweet choices
WYR? LeMans on both!
Lemans in both wyr
Sweet choices
Firebird - lemans
Sweet choices
Day by day?
And we danced the hooters
67 Firebird
69 Lemans
Sweet choices
Oh La la
Faces
Firebird 69!!!!!!😊
Sweet choice
Not getting notifications
I instant premiered this one
I wish then I knew what I know now?
That would’ve been a good song, but it isn’t that one
Killed by a bean counter .
Probably very true
@@What.its.like. actually had a friend with a firebird equipped with one .
had a beautiful 66 lemans -semi-gto except for this pig of an engine . like a rubberband powered car slow as a mb 240d
WYR: Tempest wagon, 1969 Firebird.
69 lamaz
I'll take a V8 over a 6 any day....
That OHC Pontiac was a camshaft eating POS !
.
I ask, do u have the balls to make a vid about how the SBC is a Ford design? I will make a vid and I will read out the page I sent you. I have no views and this topic will get me some.
Is it really a Ford design Ed Cole did one hell of a job designing the small block Chevy I love the fact that you can bolt any transmission up to it.. same can’t be said about Ford you have to have the specific bolt pattern in the 50s Ford had three different case sizes with different tail, shaft, links, and somewhere air, cold, and somewhere water cooled, and none of them interchange..
I luv ur actually considering this. and not blocking my comments. thank you.
Everyone has a free voice on this channel I don’t block anything RUclips does but I never do. I go through the blocked list and make them public but they usually just disappear.
@@What.its.like. Ed Cole designed what? A bolt pattern? We are talking the small block skirtless casting with thin walled heads. A Duntov design. I am assuming u read the article?
@@What.its.like. - The only thing ole El Itch has right is that Duntov was employed by GM (Chevrolet) as an engineer. The Ford connection is a load of crap …
Chevrolet was mass producing its fine little V8 before Ford ever figured out how to get oil up to the rocker arms of that junk they tried to pass off as a modern engine.
Sorry man, your stats, are "WAY WRONG",,,,way HIGH!. It did have a rubber belt. The gas mileage wasn't something that I remember. I must say it wasn't all that great/ or maybe because I drove it "not" to worry about the mileage..
I got the stats from
www.automobile-catalog.com/make/pontiac/le_mans_3gen/le_mans_3_hardtop/1969.html#gsc.tab=0
And a lot of the information from the Pontiac registry
www.ohc6.com/history.html
@@What.its.like. I've got MINE: From "Motors Manual"
@@What.its.like. Yeah I don't know if I've told you, but in '67 it was a 230 Cu. In. in '68 it changed to a 250 C. I.. they came with 1 Bbl carbs, or 4-bbl carbs. They didn't last long, I think that '69 was the last year. they had a TIMING BELT, they say it was made out of.........I forget, but something really strong. I didn't replace mine. It ran great, had a very different sound to the car. I had a Header on it. "Clifford, 6=8" is what it said on the sticker, sounded cool, like because of the HEADER, my car equaled the POWER of a V-8. (It didn't though,,> Maybe it DID> in those shitty EPA years!) V-8's were putting out maybe 140 HP back in the day,, all of the SMOG stuff on them, and in '68, the ONLY smog B/S I had was a PCV valve. ahahahhahah
Firebird, Firebird.