How To Replace Polybutylene Water Piping | Ask This Old House
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- Опубликовано: 26 дек 2018
- Richard travels to Raleigh, North Carolina to help a homeowner replace the leaky polybutylene pipes throughout his house.
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How To Replace Polybutylene Water Piping | Ask This Old House
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That local plumber has a really soothing voice.
Like Sam Elliot
Guy's got heck of a business plan here, 10 years later he just need to change that sign on the truck to say "Replace your CPVC Plumbing."
I've had my cpvc for 20 yrs. and still holding up.
Cpvc in my parents home for about 35 yrs, and still going strong. Cpvc is not going anywhere, anytime soon.
lol
Cpvc is totally fine this comment is dumb
We had two rent houses that had cpvc piping that leaked and developed a crack down the seam. Replaced them all with Plex tubing.
I had a house built in 1998 with CVPC and had no less than three different leaks. That stuff gets very brittle over time. Many local plumbers will not install CVPC. Kind of surprised to see that as the solution in this video.
It’s standard in their area, the weather is different everywhere bud
@@DTSupstateNY it has nothing to do with the weather. It brittles over time no matter where you are.
@@SteelheadTed does well water damage polybutylene pipe
jeff falls sir, your voice and accent it is absolutely sublime.
Might as well install the drywall with Velcro to make the cpvc replacement easier.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Can I hire Mr. Falls to tell me bedtime stories? What a voice!
Lets not forget other places this was used. The old mobile home I just purchased had some plumbing issues when I got it. Found this stuff mixed with cpvc in the guest bathroom. Thank God for shark bite connectors and a little previous experience. Look forward to pexing the whole house once I get it fully paid off.
(2035) "Hi, I'm Richard Trethewey Jr. On today's episode of Ask This Old House we're visiting a homeowner that's having his CPVC piping replaced throughout his whole house. Now, I noticed it looks like there were previous cuts in the drywall..."
sjn 72 Why didn’t they use pex?
2035 is being generous. I’d say 2029
LMFAO....dude you win.
@@davidcoleman9304 From what I've read, mice and rats can and will chew on pex pipe
@@davidcoleman9304 I can confirm mice eating pex, our travel trailer pex had holes chewed in it from mice
I do remodel on old trailers and manufactured homes and my biggest plumbing problems come from these two products.
Cpvc becomes brittle from age and breaks easily from just a little freeze. Polybutylene randomly springs leaks in the piping. If you run too hot of water through it becomes very soft and then separates at the fittings. These are the last two products I would want in my home, because there is no repairing when they fail, only replacing.
I’m doing a demo of an addition to my house.. there’s a basement foundation that will be filled in once it’s been demolished… however I’m not sure what to do with the service water lines and wastewater drain pipes… do i need to do anything particular with them?!? Or can i just burry them?
3/4 to the last 2 fixture supplies. Thanks roger
Great video! Really important topic!
Great work gentlemen.
I absolutely love this guys southern accent....
I was going to say something about using CPVC instead of PEX but it looks like that has been covered pretty well. As a plumber I have replaced polybutylene in a couple of houses and used PEX. I have also replaced CPVC with PEX. The problem with any of these plastics is UV rays. If you leave a stick or roll of any of these materials out in the sun either at the supply warehouse or on site it tends to get brittle which may not show up for years. The same thing applies for PEX to a lesser degree. Copper also has a downside as it conducts and allows minerals to stick to the walls of the pipe. With all that being said if it was my house I would use PEX with brass fittings.
Well you can’t have a perfect plumbing world or else is plumbers will run out of work eventually
Pex Not as great as people claim; NIBCO, UPONOR, ZUM, etc.. are all being sued for defective product.
I wish evry crawl space look like that in North Carolina... makes installing hvac equipment a million times better
The next big business will be replacing CPVC piping.
Nobody that’s his brothers business
You need to keep the family business going. That is what he is training his son for
It is a business now because cpvc gets brittle and leaks at the fittings.
I'm not a plumber but I do a lot of plumbing for work, everything from remodels and repairs to new construction. If I were doing my own home it would only be with type L copper, though I wouldn't lose any sleep if pex was used. Pex has its benefits. I can understand using cpvc if money was an issue or already had a solid plan to move in the next few years while it is probably still under warranty or before it likely becomes brittle and starts having issues, but I was taught to do things correctly and do them yourself. Don't know how? Figure it out. Better to teach yourself to do it correctly rather than pay someone a lot to do it incorrectly.
You had me with copper but lost me with pex. Pex has its benefits in that it adds all the luster of a double wide trailer home to your regular home
I'm plumbing my house in type l copper. Sweated also no bs propress or sharkbite
As a HVAC tech I get in a lot of older homes crawls. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve crawled back out to inform the owner they have leaks in their plumbing systems. I attribute a lot of them to the crimp rings and unsupported piping of poor workmanship of tradesmen knowing that out of sight is out of mind. Pex or Copper for me.
Never heard of this plumbing material before until now.
My mom’s house had the Polybutylene in it. That stuff is a nightmare. 🤦🏻♂️ It was more trouble to keep trying to fix the cracks, leaks, fittings, etc. We ended up replacing it all with CPVC.
What an effing headache and messs with the walls , would def went pex
Replace one "super newest great material of the future" for the next. Just use metal.
Blah blah.Nothing
Last forever so you ladies can stop now,
Fabulous video 👍💯
If am spending that much money am using good old copper or pex
I've lived in three houses where the copper wore through from sediment abrasion and started leaking. I switched two out for PEX and still need to do another. The copper was probably 40 years old though.
No, I work for dollars and sometimes beer.
Did they mention cost? I didn't catch that!
@@tenthdimension9836 They didn't he's assuming but probably for good reason.
CPVC is garbage compare to PEX.
He sounds like Bruce from the Family Guy. :) Nice episode as usual TOH
Jamaica Uitzetter I was thinking the same thing!
I was thinking that too.
Oh no. (Bruce voice)
This job looks well done, the pipes do not look as old as what we have encountered during our project in our 110 years old (flip) house, old rusty pipelines leaking here and there( pissing); like in a scary movie in that old scary unfinished basement. Copper is so expensive, we ended up with plastic.
We had a 1991 house trailer that was plumbed with it. So it made it out of the 70's. Leaks galore in that baby.
I'm replacing my polybutylene pipes right now. They have been in my house for 38 years and are now only getting small droplets at the fittings when wiggled. Guess I got lucky they didnt burst yet.
In europe we do PPR piping for mains. Basically, a weldable plastic pipe, with guarantee for 50 years. Thick walls, ductile yet very ridgit and strong pipe, that can be used in mains or heating, indoors or outdoors, underground or in air, and can freeze and will not split. It is resistant to sun damage, is lab grade plastic, can resist any base or acid, and is joined with no glue or compression rings. You take a special iron, that heats and melts both the hub of the fitting and the end of the pipe and you push them together, fusing them together and making a permanent connection, with absolutely no chance of leakage. That is what i'm spending my money on all day long. O'm an apprentice plumber, and i have already installed many, many systems with PPR pipe. I ran my whole yard watering system with PPR and it is fed by a well pump, and after 4 years it still holds up like new. I installed it in my heating system, and it works great, basically a perfect pipe. I don't know why USA has not yet started uring that pipe..??
Replacing all those pipes is gonna be an insane amount of work
Nice job...
Those crimp rings sure remind me of PEX.
I could listen to that guy talk all day long
I like how soft spoken Jeff Falls is.
The Dude Abides
Can't believe John Wieland Builders in Atlanta, GA used this exact pipe in my home built in 1994!!! I moved before there were any leaks.
I wanted to see them finish the ceilings and walls!
Nice Job!!!!
I used to repipe pb with copper and cpvc. Now it's too costly to use copper and cpvc has a terrible taste issue that lasts a long time. Plus the cpvc gets brittle and will crack. I now use Uponor ProPEX Expander Fittings with the Milwaukee expander tool and never looked back.
*New Technology is Always Great*
I love his accent.
Why use CPVC instead of PEX? Also have a mobile home with PB and its from 1995 is that pipe ok vs stuff from 70s? Thx
I live close to the seattle area but we just put in a 2" polybutelene water main the other day
Epic video
I had this pipes in the houses I was renting in Clifton, VA. They always leaked. The company that made these pipes went out of business with lawsuits against them. I just bought my 1950 house and luckily it has copper pipes
I have a 1998 house with CPVC and its become super brittle and there's like a 50-50 chance that it shatters if you try to cut it. If you leave it alone it's mostly okay, but I had one joint start leaking this past year, luckily it was in the basement but I want to get rid of this place before something worse happens.
I was just thinking about that video few days ago, however I didn't remember why! Haha
I have problems with cpvc as well, after so many years cpvc gets extremely brittle........ so same problems
On earlier pvc and cpvc jobs I've seen a primer used but here it looks like just a cement was used. Is this something new?
This guy sounds so friendly.
I'm replacing plastic that gets brittle and fails over time with plastic that gets brittle and fails over time... What? PEX is much more reliable than CPVC. Is this job security for his family? His son's business tagline will be, "Replace your CPVC Now!"
“Don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggS”. He can continue the business for decades. Hahaha.
He is using the gold standard in cpvc piping-“flow guard gold” it’s the best stuff around and does not get “brittle” like pvc-it’s a different material make-up.
EpiDemic117 you’re gonna have fun dumping a lot of unnecessary cash into it
Ya. This is such a bad advice from this old house. In 2018 it is shameful to use this product. I guess he wants to make sure his sons can replace this garbage.
EpiDemic117 copper leaks bad too mostly with well water or bad solder joints
Do you guys in the states have rehau pipe.?
It is necessary to replace the polybutylene that runs between the shower valve and the shower head since it is an unpressurized line? Thanks.
that is the best crawlspace i've ever seen. i live in NC and my crawlspace makes me feel like i'm busting out of shawshank prison...
i'm just messing with them b/c i know they have have a filmable crawlspace but I wouldn't have said anything if Richard wasn't complaining about that "crawlspace" :-p
I got some 30 year old CPVC at my place. Every time I put a wrench on it it cracks.
All the plastic garbage will fail quickly, pipes, decking, baseboards, siding, flooring, etc. It's only good for long enough to let the developers unload the house. If you want it to last, use what's worked forever - wood, copper, and stone.
Excuse me , what glue did you use for the pvc pipe? TKS
My RV is from 1989 and it has that polybutylene piping in it! It was leaking when we got the RV years ago! I have been replacing it with color coded pex so it is easy for future owners of the rv to know which valves to shut off when camping and me as well if something goes wrong!
Great. Swap polybutene for cpvc. A nice way to create more work for the future when that goes wrong too. If I was spending the money, get it done properly in copper or PEX!!!
I’m nearby in Fayetteville!
I would much rather have poly than cpvc in my house. What kinda plumber is running cpvc? I also live in raleigh. Just seems odd..
Jeff has the most calming voice I've ever heard, get that man some sasparilla
Sam Elliot
I wish this company was in Virginia I need this done badly
This is one reason why I service and repair HVACR systems. I am not a plumber. Just the condensate lines.
Here we use pex-al-pex (that's one layer of aluminum sandwiched in two layer of pex) as standard pipe and they seem to last forever! Moreover, you can easily bend them and you have to use less fittings!
Love his accent
As far as I’m aware this isn’t something we have here in the UK, at least I’ve never come across it. Plenty of work for a good plumber for a long time to come 👍
As far as I can tell, the UK's building codes are essentially a whitelist, meaning you're only allowed to use materials and methods specifically allowed by the code. In the US, it seems to be more of a blacklist, meaning you can use any method or material that meets a minimum standard given by the building code. If the materials fail, the manufacturer is liable, and if the construction fails, the builder is liable. Further, in the US, for materials and techniques to be insurable, they have to be in accordance with lab testing performed by Underwriter's Limited, or insurance won't cover them. Therefore the insurance companies also have a lot of input as to what methods and materials are used in construction.
The benefit of the UK methodology is that you know very well what to expect out of everything, because it takes a massive amount of time to get anything onto the list of permitted methods and materials, but innovation takes a fair bit longer to hit the market. The benefit of the US system is that materials engineers and building engineers have a much easier time creating advances in their fields, so while there's a bit less stability in the market, innovation happens quite rapidly in the US. They're different approaches with different advantages and drawbacks. And either way it pays to be an informed consumer.
Michael Davis absolutely spot on Michael, you have a quite insightful grasp of UK regulations and Building Control, such a pity new innovations in materials and techniques take such a long time to gain acceptance here.
UK consisted originally of lead or copper, lead being the earlier. Lead was used to run from the water main right up to the rising main inside your house then it would usually attach to copper. Problem with the old lead and copper was the impurities in the material, this is what degrades and causes pinhole leaks. Some places had galvanised iron which is utter shit stuff. Late 60's saw black alkythene introduced which is not too bad but is susceptible to sun bleaching and becomes brittle/fragile over time. Blue poly mdpe is now the norm for pipework outside and into the property with copper still the 90% norm for internal plumbing
It's not just Polybutylene. I currently have an approved claim with Uponor to have all the hot water PEX in my home replaced due to pinhole leaks and brittle tubing. If it were up to me, there would be no PEX in my entire home. Copper is king!
A class action Lawsuit
Matzdorf et al. v. Uponor, Inc. et al.
FILED: JULY 29, 2021
§ 1:21-CV-02057
alleges blue- and red-colored cross-linked polyethylene tubing (PEX) made by Uponor is defective and prone to premature degradation, deterioration and failure.
@@kalijasin My issue pre-dated that suit. Also, mine was not blue or red -- it was the natural (white) color. In the end, Uponor paid to have all the 3/4" hot water PEX replaced in my home, as well as all the related drywall and paint work. In my case, I did not need a lawsuit because it was still within the 25-year warranty. The bigger problem is that it takes so long for degradation problems like this to appear -- I wonder how much longer before PEX is simply outlawed altogether. We need to simply go back to copper.
@@swp466 PEX isn't getting outlawed. Contractors LOVE it. Lets them cut corners like crazy and if it fails, more work for them. A number of friends and family have built homes around the country in the last 5 years and very few of them could even find a contractor that would agree to do copper piping instead of PEX even for an increased price.
I have had polybutylene pipes ( Qest) for some 30+ years in my house, no troubles except one incident (possible amateur installation error). I am on a 50psig max well with pvc piping service and brass service valves on the community system. all but one brass service valve (some 15 or so) has failed due to corrosion in 47 years of service. The buried pvc piping seems in good order. Could pvc failures have arisen from something (chlorinated or other) that's in the water? There no additives in my well water.
All PVC get old get real brittle, I have cut cpvc,pvc they just shatter, Uv light is the worst enemy.
What decent plumber would choose cpvc over pex? I wouldn't allow cpvc in my home. I've seen first hand how it holds up.
@@jacksplumbingvideos7147 We get it. You work for Genova.
@@michaelthearchangel8508 i do not, i really like there products and they have good customer service.
Cpvc, the garbage pipe, that entire jobs material for a full house tough was around $150.00
Good
Is it just glueing or is there an actual reaction that welds the pvc together?
In Germany they are moving towards Stainless Steel Pipes with pressed fittings. I also have seen some PVC pipes with aluminum cores, also with pressed fittings.
Press fittings are bad, each one has an oring in it that can fail. If I were using stainless I would want it threaded or welded. But I dont get why you would choose stainless steel over copper, with copper you can just solder the joints and dont need threading.
Habari za kazi
Hall
Have done loads of these jobs always used uponor pex
What's the price difference with copper?
Uponor is paying to replace all their faulty hot water PEX in my home because it got brittle and began experiencing pinhole leaks. It's no good on the hot side. Google hot water PEX pinhole leaks -- there's tons of complaints. If it were up to me, I'd change all of the PEX out with copper, but since they're paying for it, I'm stuck putting PEX back in. Oh well -- the PEX lasted 17 years -- I doubt I'll still own this home in another 17 years, so it'll be someone else's problem when it fails again.
Conditioned space ok. Attic or Basement seen lots of issue's big temp swings becomes brittle.
We have a pool house with a toilet and sink plumbed with cpvc. After my dad passed away it was left unfinished and unused for 15 years. I finally got the knowledge to finish it, and when i hooked up the water supply and went to turn it on the cpvc burst at a few joints, and the pipe split.
I replaced it with copper since it was such a small area, and it works fine now.
Being a Yankee from up north, I say good luck to all these people down south if they ever experience a prolonged power outage during a sub-freezing temperatures.
Lol. Going back with cpvc is bad enough, but leaving the old faucet too?
Is that different material from pex? I just redid some of my water line with pex
Yes, it's a similar crimp technology, but the materials are different. The pex pipe and fittings shouldn't break down in the same way that polybutylene and acetal did.
Copper where there's little to no chance of freezing, PEX everywhere else. I'm really thinking of a whole house expansion tank to eliminate water hammer and any chance of PEX rubbing bare from movement.
Good job security for when that cpvc fails haha
Cpvc are nutty? All that work and your going to use that?
out of curiosity how did they match the print wall board behind the shower. did he have a painter artist detail match the print?
Hell NO......THAT WAS ON THE HOMEOWNER TO RE PAINT AND RE PAPER
I like copper piping. It's the king. If I was going to tear out the walls. That's what I'll replace it with.
jimmy
warren, Michigan
Absolutely agree. Copper and soldering is the way to go
Bet you if the people who built that house put copper in the beginning of it being built. They wouldn't be ripping it out and we wouldn't have this conversation.
jimmy
warren, Michigan
@@jamesw4912 price copper... oh and good luck getting it to bend in tight areas.... the labor and parts would be obscene.
Ted you need to write a song about that. If it becomes a hit you can think of me.
jimmy
From Michigan
@@TedSchoenling they sell soft copper for bending around corners and stuff
Glue cpvc with no primer?
Lol.. Replacing Poly-B with CPVC.. Amazing..
This Old House, is polybutylene a recyclable material? If so, where and how is that done and does This Old House recycle? I'm not a builder, but we're trying to recycle everything we can. Thanks in advance for your answers. :o) Donna B.
I'm glad I live in a ranch. If my copper pipe ever has problems I can just go down to the basement and fix it without cutting any drywall
Parents have replaced pipes twice in 40 years. Originally copper through the slab but ground movement broke it in the early 80's. Polybutylene starting splitting replaced three years ago, now straight runs of PEX run through the attic.
and perhaps the PEX will have to be replaced in another number of years...? We don't know yet.
@@Cdshakes I hope not for Chris Wells' parent's sake. Of course, if it does happen, that would mean they've lived a long (hopefully fortuitous) life so there's that.
I was very hesitant to use PEX.. but for the last twelve years I've used it because of the cold weather in the San Bernardino Mts. Haven't had a leak or needed to replace ANY yet! used Copper since the early 80s. Had a few leaks if the copper wasn't insulated. Pex really work's the best. It expands and retracts on hot and cold weather...just never use "Shark bites".
,👍
So now when the PEX leaks it ruins the house. Good job
Pex Not as great as people claim; NIBCO, UPONOR, ZUM, etc.. are all being sued for defective product.
Magnum PI is a great plumber
Cpvc is fine and will last for decades if undisturbed. I didn't see them using primer though. I've always used it with cpvc.
Jeff Falls has a really nice Radio voice.
it's a great accent
Why wasn't the pvc primed before gluing?
I used cpvc 20 years ago when I did the whole house remodel but it has a problem if it freezes. So am replacing all of it with pex. And I am in the Pacific Northwest.
E. Agrisea it don't matter what pipe you use copper, galvanized, pex, PVC they ALL will rupture if froze if you heat your house you won't have a problem
Anyone have a recommended pb replacement team in AZ ?
With that voice, Jeff Falls should be a TV or commercial announcer.
Nice popcorn ceiling. Was it tested for asbestos?
Love the guys southern accent. I wonder if cost was the reason for not using PEX?
Rip out one bodge and replace it with another.
Great idea! Lol
I found that cpvc pipe after about 10 years seem to get brittle and crack like glass and that’s indoors
They know these replacement pipes are crap and that they're going to be needing replacement in the future and that's why they use them to give the industry more money and plumbers!
@TerraTN
I mean sure it's not indestructible but do you put copper in that list as well? I'm no expert on plumbing and up to this point have just been replacing the cpvc when it needs it, but I've been thinking about copper and it's hard to find objective analysis.
@TerraTN The holes in copper actually come from scratching made my small rocks wizzing through your pipes. Then add some acidity to your water and it rusts green.
I bumped an old CPVC line once in the winter and next thing you know it was raining.
@@KnightofAntiquity Use a filter....
as a builder ... i too make money repairing "the best building practice" from 5-10 years ago. unbelievable how so many "new and better" ways fall to crap so fast
To a true pro these guys are rookies