I remember my Dad, a scratch player in his time, telling me 60+ years ago that 'par' was a terrific score in golf. Love the Open because you see so much more than routine 210 yard 7-irons landing 5' below the hole. Golf gets boring when everyone hits the greens in regulation, everyone is 25 under par, and all you're really watching is the putting. Well done, Mr. Tatum.
THANK YOU! It gets soooo redundant seeing the same pitch and putt, race to 30-under par tournaments every week. I LOVE seeing a course bite back at players and cause them to actually have to put some strategy in play for each hole
@@ericlittle2369 The equipment has improved tenfold since the 70's. Not the talent. Let's see how these young bucks do with a persimmon driver with a head on it smaller than their utility hybrid. And then there's the golf ball, which goes 30% further than the balata ball of the 60's.
@@buckfan1969 stop it. Lmfao The equipment has improved, yes but the courses are miles longer since the 70s to compensate. There’s a reason the winning score at the majors doesn’t get higher every single year. Back in the 70s also, nobody was in the gym. Tiger completely changed that in the early 2000s and actually treated golf as the sport that it is. Since then, the depth of the field has gotten so much harder. And most of these guys hit the same exact butter knife blades that they did in the 70s.
@@buckfan1969 persimmon woods are not that hard to hit. 🤷🏻♂️ they’re really not. I started on a set of them (Macgregor MTs to be exact) and I’ve broken 80 with that set more than once. Im FAR from a PGA Tour player. Lol The irons, however… Brutal.
Went to the practice round at Medinah in 1990. I wasn't an autograph hound, but came upon Irwin putting on a green. It was weird but it was just he and I. I asked if he was going to get his 3rd Open and he said he was going to try. He signed my visor which is the only autograph I got the whole day. He went on to win of course, and was on the cover of SI the next week. I have both items framed together and on display.
I was lucky to be at Augusta National with my father in 1986 and we witnessed the Golden Bear make his famous back nine charge to become the oldest man to ever win the Masters. I don't have any autographs, but I do have some souvenirs I bought that day. My father grew up about a mile and half from Augusta National in Martinez, GA, he got two tickets for the final round from the owner of the company he worked for, he passed away six months later and it's a memory I will hold close to my heart.
I loved the book, Massacre at Winged Foot, by Dick Schaap. One of my favorite quotes was from Hubert Green. After shooting an 81 in the first round and then a 67 in the second, he was asked what the difference was between those two rounds. He simply said, " Fourteen strokes, sir. "
@@jpreyes1028 It identified the most patient golfer among the best players in the world. The best combination of a level head and sure hands in the field. I'll take that. Hale earned it.
@@winstonsmith11 Hale Irwin definitely earned it but it doesn't take away from the fact that the USGA once again screwed up. That's why it has always run a distant 3rd to the Masters and British Open.
What a complete, narcissistic arse. An absolute megalomaniacal personality on the order of Hitler. When the scores are this high with the world's best players, it isn't a test of skill, but rather simply a test of luck plus whoever is having a career week. Career weeks shouldn't be rewarded with Majors - that's for the CVS Open.
@@dlr6025 Hey I call them as I see them. Narcissists and control freaks are what they are and they inhabit all areas of our Society. Actively trying to embarrass the best sportsmen and players is just sick.
They'd destroy it, the best and longest would just hit 2 irons off tee. Prime tiger would be perfect for this set up, wouldn't even use a driver like he did in holylake.....he'd win by a mile
Hale Irwin -- one of the most underrated athletes of the past 50 years or so. He was a two-time all-conference defensive back and NCAA champion golfer at Colorado, then went on to win 20 PGA Tour events (including three U.S. Opens) and 45 Champions Tour events.
Back when competitors had to strike the ball solidly on-center and perfectly timed. No magic balls, trampoline drivers or irons with enormous sweet spots. Old school golf swings using muscle back irons, oil hardened persimmon, and heavy shafts as stiff as a 2x4 were used to play the toughest course imaginable. In the end, the game of golf was the winner and the guy who posted the lowest score earned a check large enough to take his family on a well earned vacation.
I love that Bobby Jones quote, not heard it before. It caught my attention because, about month ago, I arrived at a similar conclusion in golf. I was playing with my friend I said to him; "You know, I have come to the conclusion that, without the bad shots, the good shots are meaningless. It is the fact that we get into trouble with a bad lie, or a ball going into the forest, that makes golf so challenging and therefore it is what keeps your interest in the game fresh all the time. There is no other game, sport, I can think of that has that quality about it." After that I started to enjoy the bad shots as much as the good ones. Suddenly something magical happened. I began to swing wth more confidence and more freely. I realised I had lost my fear of making a bad shot. I have never enjoyed my golf as much as I do now. Learn to embrace the bad shots and your game will improve. At least that is my experience.
Crypto, He was right,when I started playing golf,I was a little hopeless, not much has changed. But what I found was that when I played a bad shot my ability to produce magic from disaster was a times amazing, at other time very average, and from that time,hitting a bad shot is a challenge to produce the magic. To tell the truth I sometime find it more desirable to be in difficulty than to have a simple shot on to the green,as I often tell my playing partners ,I play my best shot out of adversity,and some of my worst.I do not play boring golf,but it is a times below average.
@@dennisdobin8640 Indeed, I understand where you are coming from. I have also had similar experiences - producing magical shot from terrible lies. And when those shots happen, boy do you get a great feeling. Hope you continue to love the game my good fellow.
Hale was our next door neighbor when he won this. He and his wife had recently moved in. The announcer said something about how pleased his neighbors will be in Colorado, not knowing he was living in St Louis at the time. I was in high school then. He was driving down our street a couple days after and he smiled and waved. I felt I just saw some kind of god. I remember him as just a wonderful man with a sweet and very kind wife. Lovely people.
Jack Nicklaus has been my idol since the first time I saw him on television (the late 1960's) tomorrow January 21st is Jack's 80 th birthday ! I loved him when he was 30,40,50,60,70 and now at age 80! Until his days on this Earth are over he will remain the standard for witch greatness ,class,winning , +performing under pressure will be judged ! Happy birthday you deserve all the happiness in the world ! I never told you were my hero, I just did!
I love this and his explanation is correct and priceless. The casual golf fan who doesn’t understand the game hates this but the true fan likes seeing these guys be challenged and forced to hit good shots to score. 1 week a year these guys can handle being brutally tested and made to play this style of golf.
I have only seen one US Open on Winged foot, in 2006.. Winning score was +5..Lightning greens and deep heavy rough..And oh by the way they are coming back to Winged foot for the 2020 Open
Had a chance to play this course when our college team stopped by there in 1985 to buy some US Open memorabilia while on our way back home. The person in the pro shop who I think was the Head Pro, invited our golf team to play, but our Coach said no, it was a once in a lifetime opportunity.
The way the course was setup looks pretty much the same as my local muni. Greens you can't stop a ball on, ankle deep rough, which is bahaya grass, and the back nine is essentially a swamp with worse greens and narrower fairways. Pretty much anything under 85 is a fantastic score
When you win a U.S. Open at +7, you’ve clearly demonstrated who the best player was for that Championship. That requires a level of shot making and concentration that truly identifies a champion. A stray shot on that setup could easily lead to double bogey or worse. The penalty for imprecision is hugely magnified. Even a quality shot could leave you struggling to make par. The U.S. Open is supposed to be a test of scrambling ability where par is an excellent score.
Golf is hard. But we all play the same course in competition, the course doesn't single you or me out for a beating. Golf has always been a simulacra of life. It isn't always fair, how we deal with the hand we're dealt is what matters.
There is not enough penalty for truly horrific shots today. Just look at The Masters. 50 yards off the fairway into the woods and you STILL have a clear easy shot at the par 5's in 2 strokes.
@@bobbys4327 My course is 5 minutes down the road. Fairway , 15 foot strip of 3 inch rough , 10 foot cart path , deep dark impenetrable woods. Half the holes have a creek between the cart path and woods.
I followed Jack in the third round in 74. He shot 77 playing with Jim Colbert. I had to wait until 2007 in order to play the course myself, in the Stoddard Trophy match. Maybe the toughest championship course of all.
There were a number of reasons why the scoring was so high at Winged Foot in the 1974 U.S. Open. One reason was what happened on the final round of the 1973 U.S. Open at Oakmont. Everyone remembers Johnny Miller shooting a 63 to win that event, but often forgotten is the fact that Lanny Wadkins also shot a 65 that same day. What may have happened there was the USGA unintentionally set up the greens a little too slow, which was why an abnormally high number of players had good rounds on that final day. (Remember that scoring in the '72 U.S. Open was abnormally high, with nobody shooting below 290 for the four rounds, and only Jack Nicklaus doing better than a five-over par 293, so they may have wanted it a little easier for the final round in 1973.) So, they decided that was not going to happen two years in a row, so the course was set up extremely difficult, to the point of possibly being unfair. But something else that people tend to forget that weather became a factor on the weekend, especially on Sunday. Because of the threat of thunderstorms (and it did rain early on Sunday, and with more being forecast throughout the day, it was feared that they wouldn't even finish), one thing that had to be done was to put the hole locations on the higher levels of all 18 greens, which drove scores up even higher, because it was nearly impossible to get approach shots close, making birdies extremely rare, and par saves just as difficult. So because of the threat of weather, hole locations added to the difficulty of that course that year. So what happened in the 1974 U.S. Open was a case of the course being set up so hard because of what happened in 1973, when Oakmont was set up somewhat easier for the final round because of how brutally difficult it was in 1972, when only Jack Nicklaus finished fewer than five strokes over par at Pebble Beach (and even he finished at a 2-over par 290). Add in the weather threat on the weekend, causing the hole locations on the upper level on all the greens, and what happened at the "Massacre at Winged Foot" was a case of a perfect storm of everything having to happen just right to cause the problems everyone had, which resulted in Hale Irwin winning at 7-over par.
They all have to play the same course. Even Irwin's great performance was a +7 . Tells me how brutal it must have been. Like the cow pastures I play on
Well, it was excruciatingly difficult that year, but for the scores to be as high as they were, everything had to come together in just the right (or wrong) way, and they did. But the final round scores were much higher because they had to put the holes on the upper levels of each green because of the possibility of rain, which made it almost impossible to get approach shots close, and made trouble shots around the greens virtually impossible, a fact that made runner-up Forrest Fezler's scrambling at 15, 16, and 17 that much more amazing. The fact that Hale Irwin's 3-over 73 in the final round was not only more than enough to overcome Tom Watson, but also win by two shots, which was a deceptively small margin of victory, because the MOV could just as easily have been four or five shots, shows how well he played, as well as how virtually impossible it was to score on that course that week, particularly in the last round. In fact, only two players bested par in that final round, Al Geiberger and Jack Nicklaus, and even those sub-par rounds couldn't get either in the top 10.
"Lanny Wadkins also shot a 65 that same day" - this round was a minor miracle - Miller's was a major miracle - and let's not forget that only three other players broke 70 that sunday - there was nothing wrong with Oakmont - Miller simple shot "an easy" 63 - no chip ins, no long putts - no so with Wadkins.I do agree though that Miller's 63 drove the winged foot setup - Tatum is full of crap
And in fact, the cameras and commentators for more focused on what Wadkins was doing for quite some time than on Miller's heroics before Wadkins cooled off some. Then the focus turned to Miller. And I actually believe the '73 U.S. Open might have have the greatest field of contenders the event has ever had when you consider just who was contending that year. you had not only Miller and Wadkins making their mad dashes, but you also had Trevino, Palmer, Nicklaus, Weiskopf, and even Julius Boros, who was leading going into the back nine trying to become the first to win the U.S. Open in three different decades, all up there with a chance to win. And in fact, until last year, that U.S. Open in 1973 had been the only one to see a 4-way tie for the lead after 54 holes. And thanks to Miller's 63, none of those four players won. But I think what happened in 1974 was what you might call a "perfect storm". Certainly the USGA was determined not to have low rounds like that two years in a row. But one thing many people forget is that, not only did Winged Foot play as rough as a course can play, but on the final round, there were weather issues on top of that, which resulted in the officials having to place the holes on the higher level of the greens, because it had rained the morning of the final round, and there was more rain forecast, which never came. But because of the forecast, the cups had to be set on the higher levels of the greens, making scoring even more difficult. Hale Irwin won by shooting a 3-over par 73 in the final round, and yet that was better than any of the other contenders (and by significant margins), except for Forest Fezler. One thing a lot of people tend to forget that 1975 would prove to be no easier than 1974 was, as the same aggregate score, 287, which was 3-over par at Medinah in '75, got into a playoff.
***** good points! i had always heard that the course setup for the US Open should be such that even par should win - clearly not an exact science but a good target. they clearly blew it at Winged Foot. i also don't think today's audience want to see bogies - birdies get more love.
How many players come to Australia to play our courses with fast greens some fairways are fast but the courses are way tougher when compared to the courses in the USA and English courses are as hard as nails for the open over there.
Winged Foot and Carnoustie the two hardest major championship courses. The weather last year meant there was very little growth in the rough at Carnoustie the weather was perfect everyday with the winds light compared to normal and still the scoring was still not to low. It will be very interesting to see Winged Foot in 2020 and I look for a great contest provided the USGA don’t screw up like they did with the greens at Shinnecock last year.
It’s fine to penalize golfers for bad shots… as long as you also reward them for good shots. The issue the USGA has is when they make a course so hard that it’s virtually impossible to hit good shots. Several times they’ve lost control of the Open golf course (not this one necessarily - Winged Foot is the toughest course in the country) and had to do things like water the green after every single group plays a hole. And like it or not, the USGA is at least somewhat in the entertainment business if they’re taking half a billion dollars from NBC to air their tournament for the next 6 years. Golfers making bogey after bogey and the winner struggling home at 7 over par is not entertaining.
Daaaamn 78 as average score on the opening day🙈🙈means it was pure torture out there. “We are not trying to humiliate the best golfers in the world,we are just trying to identify who they are” Man that statement alone sent shivers down my spine...it means this course was a serious marriage breaker then. When greenkeepers wanna prove a point by changing an ordinary playable course into a monster then you know he really mad.✌🏿🇿🇦
I remember the first time the pros played the Stadium course at Sawgrass (TPC), they all threw a hissy fit that Pete Dye was trying to humiliate them on national TV...the outcry was so huge that the PGA forced Pete to redesign many of the greens and rework some of the fairways too.
I don’t buy it. That man speaks with pride about his setup. I’m sure he loved the attention. It’s one thing to make a difficult set up, it’s another to take pleasure in breaking every golfer in the field., but hey here I am in 2020 talking about it. He wins
I think it's futile to complain about the course setup because ultimately all the players are playing the same course. Would the guy who shoots the lowest round of the day say that the course is unfairly setup? Probably not. My philosophy in golf is that most of the time you get what you deserve, so don't complain. The rough is too thick? Put the ball in the fairway. The greens are too fast? Maybe you're hitting the ball too hard. The US Open is my favorite tournament because it really challenges the players. But that's just my opinion.
I rank US Open at 3rd most years in 4th others. It's really a shame to that they bring all of this on themselves. The USGA had 10 years to build a golf course from a pit up at Chambers Bay and in 10 years they built an Amusement Park. The course was a tragedy. The USGA in my opinion wants to be Relivent every year and to make that happen they have decided it is via confrontation. By no means is the USGA and US Open the best judge. Many may years they have designed Illegal pins. Meaning pins that there is no flat spot. Unless you roll the ball in the hole from a down hill putt it is going off the green and unless you hit it in the hole from and uphill putt ... The ball is coming back to you. Golfers don't begrudge difficulty they although do begrudge unfairness. Because there is a line that can be crossed where you go from determining the best to finding out who had lady luck in their pocket.
I agree with this. You just gotta be damn good. Hit the fairway, green, get the speed right on your putts. If a seasoned professional can't adapt to the conditions, why the hell are they out there? I feel like the modern professional is worse in this respect, as it's one dimensional the style in which they play. You must adapt, otherwise, you don't belong on tour.
As opposed to a course set-up where everyone can shoot 67 without even trying?? Would a birdie-fest course where the winning score is 25 under qualify as a "true test"?? Yeah it wouldn't. God forbid these players get their games actually tested where they fight for par instead of a pitch and putt barrage of flag hunting
almostfm actually no it wasn’t. The original poster said that Winged Foot that year wasn’t a test to see who was the greatest...it was a test to “see who played defensively the best”. That implies that playing defensively aka a course where you have to play for par instead of playing offensively (going flag hunting every other hole) somehow doesn’t determine the best players. God forbid these pros get tested ONCE throughout the year, and God forbid that test be at a major championship
Golf has and always will be brushed with a stroke of Luck, the golfer is in control of his own swing, the rest, all other forces and factors and luck to an extent.(sometimes only because of luck) will determine, if what he wanted to achieve works. I love it when luck works with me even though I'm a low HC.
i played my first medal in freezing conditions, 18 frozen temporary greens surrounded by muddy footprints, no run up no pitch on, i played to 18, i was a very happy 13 year old......wingfoot schmingfoot.
chances are we going to hear golfers complain again this week. they know better than anyone else the US Open is the toughest tournament to play. Sandy Tatum couldn't be more right about trying to identify the best golfers in the world. Lee Trevino's quote about accuracy also sticks with the identity of the US Open. a guy shouldn't win the US Open by hitting the ball all over the place. today's era that's exactly the way a lot of golfers play any tournament...
regrettably, technology has changed significantly and the existing courses - developed decades ago and limited in space - simply can't stay the same. one answer is to make par 5's par 4's. simple as that.
It doesn't mean anythiong wether it's a par 4 or 5 or 6 since they are all playing the same course against each other. The winner has the least number of strokes no matter the rating of the course.
When Luck becomes a determining factor in making Par then it's not Golf anymore. That's not identifying the best player i.e. the most skilled. One player, one, shot the lights out at Oakmont and the USGA punished everyone the following year. These are the best golfers on the planet. If they can't shoot Par for 72 holes then it's silly. You'd think after the Shinnecock fiascos (plural) that they'd provide a proper test.
Luck has _always_ played a part in golf. Two guys hit almost identical tee shots that land a yard apart. On lands on a flat spot and rolls to a stop. The other catches just a bit of a side slope and kicks left into the rough. It happens. Someone once said a golf course should reward good shots and punish bad ones. My suspicion is that Winged Foot punished bad shots, but didn't reward the good ones.
Fair statement. If we look at oakmont the first two rounds numbers 1, 9, 10, 18 are all playing at roughly 4.5 this year. That's 18 strokes vs 16 strokes. So course par is 72. I would suggest number 9 be played as a par 5 as members do to make it a par 71. Just my opinion.
Jake Carlisle Oakmont's 9th hole is now "too short" to be played as a par-5, you can't move the tee back either, the PA Turnpike is kind of behind the tee. Someone told me in the USGA's "pre-visit" to Winged Foot, they're tossing around the idea of perhaps playing the 9th hole as the front nine par-5 instead of the 5th... I guess it is dependent on whether the club decides to build a new tee on either the 5th or 9th.
Please.....Pros who cant help but to break par need an occasional challenge, and where better than the US Open? I honestly would like to see scores in the 80s as a norm during this tournament and test character of being reduced to amateur score level.
So basically the USGA got their ego hurt and decided to not choose a course that’s challenging, that tests every aspect of a players game, makes them create shots they’ve never practiced and weigh the pros and cons of every shot choice, and have the most creative and talented player win. No they just said well let’s just make the rough long and the greens fast. They sound like a bunch of pompous bitches who got their feelings hurt but we’re too lazy to create or find a more challenging course. So they took the easy and cheap way out to make them feel better about themselves.
Pithy sayings and defensiveness thinly disguised as self-congratulatory gestures can't change the simple fact that they completely lost control of the course in their misguided desire to protect par on the hallowed, Tillie layout just a short drive from Gotham/Manhattan, and protect the egos at Winged Foot and the USGA. The ridiculous scores attest to this fact and, notwithstanding Hale Irwin's courageous and brilliant play, this weekend was the low point in the history of major championship golf. The effects of this debacle were a huge negative impact on golf because 'tricking up' the course became a recurring theme. In Tiger's prime, they tricked those courses up so much that the contest became a virtual lottery, resulting in a parade of no-names walking off with major trophies, never to be seen or heard from again. A true disgrace and a permanent black mark on the integrity of the game.
Hilarion Tada Ever Play the course? I have and it is the greatest test of golf even without the USGA. Hit it in the rough and you should be penalized. PERIOD. Hit it in the bunker and you should be penalized. PERIOD. Thats all Winged Foot did as few courses do these days. All golf is these days is Driver-wedge, Driver Wedge. Winged foot brought out the best long iron players in the game and Hale Irwin was all of that. Winged Foot is and always will be a masterpiece that seperates the men from the boys.
No one ever said they lost control of this tournament EVER. It played exactly the way they wanted it to that week. Winged Foot is an incredibly difficult course to begin with and they set out to make it even more difficult because they did not want a repeat of the prior year. The fact that the final top 10 included 6 HOFers and a golfer who would win the US Open the very next year shows you that it was a great test to identify the best.
I remember my Dad, a scratch player in his time, telling me 60+ years ago that 'par' was a terrific score in golf. Love the Open because you see so much more than routine 210 yard 7-irons landing 5' below the hole. Golf gets boring when everyone hits the greens in regulation, everyone is 25 under par, and all you're really watching is the putting. Well done, Mr. Tatum.
THANK YOU! It gets soooo redundant seeing the same pitch and putt, race to 30-under par tournaments every week. I LOVE seeing a course bite back at players and cause them to actually have to put some strategy in play for each hole
The talent has definitely improved tenfold since the 70s.
The courses have only gotten more brutal over the years.
@@ericlittle2369 The equipment has improved tenfold since the 70's. Not the talent. Let's see how these young bucks do with a persimmon driver with a head on it smaller than their utility hybrid. And then there's the golf ball, which goes 30% further than the balata ball of the 60's.
@@buckfan1969 stop it. Lmfao
The equipment has improved, yes but the courses are miles longer since the 70s to compensate.
There’s a reason the winning score at the majors doesn’t get higher every single year. Back in the 70s also, nobody was in the gym. Tiger completely changed that in the early 2000s and actually treated golf as the sport that it is.
Since then, the depth of the field has gotten so much harder. And most of these guys hit the same exact butter knife blades that they did in the 70s.
@@buckfan1969 persimmon woods are not that hard to hit. 🤷🏻♂️ they’re really not.
I started on a set of them (Macgregor MTs to be exact) and I’ve broken 80 with that set more than once. Im FAR from a PGA Tour player. Lol
The irons, however… Brutal.
Went to the practice round at Medinah in 1990. I wasn't an autograph hound, but came upon Irwin putting on a green. It was weird but it was just he and I. I asked if he was going to get his 3rd Open and he said he was going to try. He signed my visor which is the only autograph I got the whole day.
He went on to win of course, and was on the cover of SI the next week. I have both items framed together and on display.
jblack1854 I was at that Sunday final round I still have some Titleist golf balls were going to diner logo on it that says 90th U.S. Open
I was lucky to be at Augusta National with my father in 1986 and we witnessed the Golden Bear make his famous back nine charge to become the oldest man to ever win the Masters. I don't have any autographs, but I do have some souvenirs I bought that day. My father grew up about a mile and half from Augusta National in Martinez, GA, he got two tickets for the final round from the owner of the company he worked for, he passed away six months later and it's a memory I will hold close to my heart.
Wonderful story. You have a treasure.
I loved the book, Massacre at Winged Foot, by Dick Schaap. One of my favorite quotes was from Hubert Green. After shooting an 81 in the first round and then a 67 in the second, he was asked what the difference was between those two rounds. He simply said, " Fourteen strokes, sir. "
“We’re not trying to humiliate the best players in the world, we’re just trying to identify who they are!”
Freakin Epic statement.
Yes. Epicly WRONG
@@jpreyes1028 It identified the most patient golfer among the best players in the world. The best combination of a level head and sure hands in the field. I'll take that. Hale earned it.
@@winstonsmith11 Hale Irwin definitely earned it but it doesn't take away from the fact that the USGA once again screwed up. That's why it has always run a distant 3rd to the Masters and British Open.
What a complete, narcissistic arse. An absolute megalomaniacal personality on the order of Hitler. When the scores are this high with the world's best players, it isn't a test of skill, but rather simply a test of luck plus whoever is having a career week. Career weeks shouldn't be rewarded with Majors - that's for the CVS Open.
@@dlr6025 Hey I call them as I see them. Narcissists and control freaks are what they are and they inhabit all areas of our Society. Actively trying to embarrass the best sportsmen and players is just sick.
I would love love love to see the players in 2019 play this course with that exact set up and watch the tears roll down their faces…
2020.
It was probably 6400 yds theyd drive half the holes and shoot -20 or more
They'd destroy it, the best and longest would just hit 2 irons off tee. Prime tiger would be perfect for this set up, wouldn't even use a driver like he did in holylake.....he'd win by a mile
Same equipment as these boys and it may be a different story.
I love it, don’t cry cause you’re all playing the same course, I wish the us open was this brutal every year
Hale Irwin -- one of the most underrated athletes of the past 50 years or so. He was a two-time all-conference defensive back and NCAA champion golfer at Colorado, then went on to win 20 PGA Tour events (including three U.S. Opens) and 45 Champions Tour events.
"athletes?" I'll accept sportsmen.
Back when competitors had to strike the ball solidly on-center and perfectly timed. No magic balls, trampoline drivers or irons with enormous sweet spots. Old school golf swings using muscle back irons, oil hardened persimmon, and heavy shafts as stiff as a 2x4 were used to play the toughest course imaginable. In the end, the game of golf was the winner and the guy who posted the lowest score earned a check large enough to take his family on a well earned vacation.
I love that Bobby Jones quote, not heard it before. It caught my attention because, about month ago, I arrived at a similar conclusion in golf. I was playing with my friend I said to him; "You know, I have come to the conclusion that, without the bad shots, the good shots are meaningless. It is the fact that we get into trouble with a bad lie, or a ball going into the forest, that makes golf so challenging and therefore it is what keeps your interest in the game fresh all the time. There is no other game, sport, I can think of that has that quality about it."
After that I started to enjoy the bad shots as much as the good ones. Suddenly something magical happened. I began to swing wth more confidence and more freely. I realised I had lost my fear of making a bad shot. I have never enjoyed my golf as much as I do now. Learn to embrace the bad shots and your game will improve. At least that is my experience.
Crypto, He was right,when I started playing golf,I was a little hopeless, not much has changed. But what I found was that when I played a bad shot my ability to produce magic from disaster was a times amazing, at other time very average, and from that time,hitting a bad shot is a challenge to produce the magic. To tell the truth I sometime find it more desirable to be in difficulty than to have a simple shot on to the green,as I often tell my playing partners ,I play my best shot out of adversity,and some of my worst.I do not play boring golf,but it is a times below average.
@@dennisdobin8640 Indeed, I understand where you are coming from. I have also had similar experiences - producing magical shot from terrible lies. And when those shots happen, boy do you get a great feeling. Hope you continue to love the game my good fellow.
@@redknight1825 Thank you,haven't hit a ball in a while , they have us in lock down in Melb au
Hale was our next door neighbor when he won this. He and his wife had recently moved in. The announcer said something about how pleased his neighbors will be in Colorado, not knowing he was living in St Louis at the time. I was in high school then. He was driving down our street a couple days after and he smiled and waved. I felt I just saw some kind of god. I remember him as just a wonderful man with a sweet and very kind wife. Lovely people.
Jack Nicklaus has been my idol since the first time I saw him on television (the late 1960's) tomorrow January 21st is Jack's 80 th birthday ! I loved him when he was 30,40,50,60,70 and now at age 80! Until his days on this Earth are over he will remain the standard for witch greatness ,class,winning , +performing under pressure will be judged ! Happy birthday you deserve all the happiness in the world ! I never told you were my hero, I just did!
I love this and his explanation is correct and priceless. The casual golf fan who doesn’t understand the game hates this but the true fan likes seeing these guys be challenged and forced to hit good shots to score. 1 week a year these guys can handle being brutally tested and made to play this style of golf.
I have only seen one US Open on Winged foot, in 2006.. Winning score was +5..Lightning greens and deep heavy rough..And oh by the way they are coming back to Winged foot for the 2020 Open
It’s here!
Starts in one days time.....cant wait
It will be interesting to see what happens this year!
Had a chance to play this course when our college team stopped by there in 1985 to buy some US Open memorabilia while on our way back home. The person in the pro shop who I think was the Head Pro, invited our golf team to play, but our Coach said no, it was a once in a lifetime opportunity.
The way the course was setup looks pretty much the same as my local muni. Greens you can't stop a ball on, ankle deep rough, which is bahaya grass, and the back nine is essentially a swamp with worse greens and narrower fairways. Pretty much anything under 85 is a fantastic score
When you win a U.S. Open at +7, you’ve clearly demonstrated who the best player was for that Championship. That requires a level of shot making and concentration that truly identifies a champion. A stray shot on that setup could easily lead to double bogey or worse. The penalty for imprecision is hugely magnified. Even a quality shot could leave you struggling to make par. The U.S. Open is supposed to be a test of scrambling ability where par is an excellent score.
Golf is hard. But we all play the same course in competition, the course doesn't single you or me out for a beating. Golf has always been a simulacra of life. It isn't always fair, how we deal with the hand we're dealt is what matters.
2020 Bryson hold my beer....
6 over par made the the cut this time!
Players 1974: “it’s going to be a great challenge”
Players 2018: waaaaaaa waaaaaa waaa it to hard waaaa
Connor Wallace exactly, I can’t stand hearing Zach Johnson bitch and complain
@Kyle Clark Golfers always whine especially pros
thanks for posting, i've been looking for this video
Sandy Tatum reminds of president snow from hunger games, I love it
This was an incredible win for Hale Irwin, still for me his third US Open title in 1990 was the best when at 45 he beat Mike Donald in Sudden Death.
and 6 under won the 2020 US open! That is crazy!
There is not enough penalty for truly horrific shots today. Just look at The Masters. 50 yards off the fairway into the woods and you STILL have a clear easy shot at the par 5's in 2 strokes.
yup, many courses around here, where I live, if your ball goes off the fairway 3-4 yards, chances are you will not find it.
@@bobbys4327 My course is 5 minutes down the road. Fairway , 15 foot strip of 3 inch rough , 10 foot cart path , deep dark impenetrable woods. Half the holes have a creek between the cart path and woods.
Awesome video.
I followed Jack in the third round in 74. He shot 77 playing with Jim Colbert. I had to wait until 2007 in order to play the course myself, in the Stoddard Trophy match. Maybe the toughest championship course of all.
There were a number of reasons why the scoring was so high at Winged Foot in the 1974 U.S. Open. One reason was what happened on the final round of the 1973 U.S. Open at Oakmont. Everyone remembers Johnny Miller shooting a 63 to win that event, but often forgotten is the fact that Lanny Wadkins also shot a 65 that same day. What may have happened there was the USGA unintentionally set up the greens a little too slow, which was why an abnormally high number of players had good rounds on that final day. (Remember that scoring in the '72 U.S. Open was abnormally high, with nobody shooting below 290 for the four rounds, and only Jack Nicklaus doing better than a five-over par 293, so they may have wanted it a little easier for the final round in 1973.) So, they decided that was not going to happen two years in a row, so the course was set up extremely difficult, to the point of possibly being unfair.
But something else that people tend to forget that weather became a factor on the weekend, especially on Sunday. Because of the threat of thunderstorms (and it did rain early on Sunday, and with more being forecast throughout the day, it was feared that they wouldn't even finish), one thing that had to be done was to put the hole locations on the higher levels of all 18 greens, which drove scores up even higher, because it was nearly impossible to get approach shots close, making birdies extremely rare, and par saves just as difficult. So because of the threat of weather, hole locations added to the difficulty of that course that year.
So what happened in the 1974 U.S. Open was a case of the course being set up so hard because of what happened in 1973, when Oakmont was set up somewhat easier for the final round because of how brutally difficult it was in 1972, when only Jack Nicklaus finished fewer than five strokes over par at Pebble Beach (and even he finished at a 2-over par 290). Add in the weather threat on the weekend, causing the hole locations on the upper level on all the greens, and what happened at the "Massacre at Winged Foot" was a case of a perfect storm of everything having to happen just right to cause the problems everyone had, which resulted in Hale Irwin winning at 7-over par.
They all have to play the same course. Even Irwin's great performance was a +7 . Tells me how brutal it must have been. Like the cow pastures I play on
Well, it was excruciatingly difficult that year, but for the scores to be as high as they were, everything had to come together in just the right (or wrong) way, and they did. But the final round scores were much higher because they had to put the holes on the upper levels of each green because of the possibility of rain, which made it almost impossible to get approach shots close, and made trouble shots around the greens virtually impossible, a fact that made runner-up Forrest Fezler's scrambling at 15, 16, and 17 that much more amazing.
The fact that Hale Irwin's 3-over 73 in the final round was not only more than enough to overcome Tom Watson, but also win by two shots, which was a deceptively small margin of victory, because the MOV could just as easily have been four or five shots, shows how well he played, as well as how virtually impossible it was to score on that course that week, particularly in the last round. In fact, only two players bested par in that final round, Al Geiberger and Jack Nicklaus, and even those sub-par rounds couldn't get either in the top 10.
"Lanny Wadkins also shot a 65 that same day" - this round was a minor miracle - Miller's was a major miracle - and let's not forget that only three other players broke 70 that sunday - there was nothing wrong with Oakmont - Miller simple shot "an easy" 63 - no chip ins, no long putts - no so with Wadkins.I do agree though that Miller's 63 drove the winged foot setup - Tatum is full of crap
And in fact, the cameras and commentators for more focused on what Wadkins was doing for quite some time than on Miller's heroics before Wadkins cooled off some. Then the focus turned to Miller. And I actually believe the '73 U.S. Open might have have the greatest field of contenders the event has ever had when you consider just who was contending that year. you had not only Miller and Wadkins making their mad dashes, but you also had Trevino, Palmer, Nicklaus, Weiskopf, and even Julius Boros, who was leading going into the back nine trying to become the first to win the U.S. Open in three different decades, all up there with a chance to win. And in fact, until last year, that U.S. Open in 1973 had been the only one to see a 4-way tie for the lead after 54 holes. And thanks to Miller's 63, none of those four players won.
But I think what happened in 1974 was what you might call a "perfect storm". Certainly the USGA was determined not to have low rounds like that two years in a row. But one thing many people forget is that, not only did Winged Foot play as rough as a course can play, but on the final round, there were weather issues on top of that, which resulted in the officials having to place the holes on the higher level of the greens, because it had rained the morning of the final round, and there was more rain forecast, which never came. But because of the forecast, the cups had to be set on the higher levels of the greens, making scoring even more difficult. Hale Irwin won by shooting a 3-over par 73 in the final round, and yet that was better than any of the other contenders (and by significant margins), except for Forest Fezler.
One thing a lot of people tend to forget that 1975 would prove to be no easier than 1974 was, as the same aggregate score, 287, which was 3-over par at Medinah in '75, got into a playoff.
*****
good points! i had always heard that the course setup for the US Open should be such that even par should win - clearly not an exact science but a good target. they clearly blew it at Winged Foot. i also don't think today's audience want to see bogies - birdies get more love.
How many players come to Australia to play our courses with fast greens some fairways are fast but the courses are way tougher when compared to the courses in the USA and English courses are as hard as nails for the open over there.
Exactly how a US Open should be. Bring this back!
I like the way the guys says there trying to find the best golfers in the world, they should do it again
Would you like to buy some slippers?
Winged Foot and Carnoustie the two hardest major championship courses. The weather last year meant there was very little growth in the rough at Carnoustie the weather was perfect everyday with the winds light compared to normal and still the scoring was still not to low.
It will be very interesting to see Winged Foot in 2020 and I look for a great contest provided the USGA don’t screw up like they did with the greens at Shinnecock last year.
It’s fine to penalize golfers for bad shots… as long as you also reward them for good shots. The issue the USGA has is when they make a course so hard that it’s virtually impossible to hit good shots. Several times they’ve lost control of the Open golf course (not this one necessarily - Winged Foot is the toughest course in the country) and had to do things like water the green after every single group plays a hole.
And like it or not, the USGA is at least somewhat in the entertainment business if they’re taking half a billion dollars from NBC to air their tournament for the next 6 years. Golfers making bogey after bogey and the winner struggling home at 7 over par is not entertaining.
I suppose only Hale was the only one who didn't complain...
Daaaamn 78 as average score on the opening day🙈🙈means it was pure torture out there.
“We are not trying to humiliate the best golfers in the world,we are just trying to identify who they are” Man that statement alone sent shivers down my spine...it means this course was a serious marriage breaker then.
When greenkeepers wanna prove a point by changing an ordinary playable course into a monster then you know he really mad.✌🏿🇿🇦
2:03 I love how Mr. Tatum is sitting there like a black-robed judge ready to pass sentence. Excellent camera work.
I remember the first time the pros played the Stadium course at Sawgrass (TPC), they all threw a hissy fit that Pete Dye was trying to humiliate them on national TV...the outcry was so huge that the PGA forced Pete to redesign many of the greens and rework some of the fairways too.
0:35 Johnny Miller always had a great IQ for predicting how courses would play. His estimate of 290 for the winning score wasn’t too far off.
I don’t buy it. That man speaks with pride about his setup. I’m sure he loved the attention. It’s one thing to make a difficult set up, it’s another to take pleasure in breaking every golfer in the field., but hey here I am in 2020 talking about it. He wins
My generation talks so much crap about Johnny Miller's broadcasting but they need to put some respect on his MF name
Agreed.
Please….the name of the course is Winged Foot not Winfoot.
3:22
Winged Foot
I think it's futile to complain about the course setup because ultimately all the players are playing the same course. Would the guy who shoots the lowest round of the day say that the course is unfairly setup? Probably not. My philosophy in golf is that most of the time you get what you deserve, so don't complain. The rough is too thick? Put the ball in the fairway. The greens are too fast? Maybe you're hitting the ball too hard. The US Open is my favorite tournament because it really challenges the players. But that's just my opinion.
I rank US Open at 3rd most years in 4th others. It's really a shame to that they bring all of this on themselves. The USGA had 10 years to build a golf course from a pit up at Chambers Bay and in 10 years they built an Amusement Park. The course was a tragedy. The USGA in my opinion wants to be Relivent every year and to make that happen they have decided it is via confrontation. By no means is the USGA and US Open the best judge. Many may years they have designed Illegal pins. Meaning pins that there is no flat spot. Unless you roll the ball in the hole from a down hill putt it is going off the green and unless you hit it in the hole from and uphill putt ... The ball is coming back to you. Golfers don't begrudge difficulty they although do begrudge unfairness. Because there is a line that can be crossed where you go from determining the best to finding out who had lady luck in their pocket.
+EricAKATheBelgianGuy yeah Andy North loves it, & he's an ICON😎😎😎
I agree with this. You just gotta be damn good. Hit the fairway, green, get the speed right on your putts. If a seasoned professional can't adapt to the conditions, why the hell are they out there? I feel like the modern professional is worse in this respect, as it's one dimensional the style in which they play. You must adapt, otherwise, you don't belong on tour.
That wasn't a test to see who was the greatest.
That was a test to see who can play defensively the best.
As opposed to a course set-up where everyone can shoot 67 without even trying?? Would a birdie-fest course where the winning score is 25 under qualify as a "true test"?? Yeah it wouldn't. God forbid these players get their games actually tested where they fight for par instead of a pitch and putt barrage of flag hunting
That's a false dichotomy.
almostfm actually no it wasn’t. The original poster said that Winged Foot that year wasn’t a test to see who was the greatest...it was a test to “see who played defensively the best”. That implies that playing defensively aka a course where you have to play for par instead of playing offensively (going flag hunting every other hole) somehow doesn’t determine the best players. God forbid these pros get tested ONCE throughout the year, and God forbid that test be at a major championship
Golf has and always will be brushed with a stroke of Luck, the golfer is in control of his own swing, the rest, all other forces and factors and luck to an extent.(sometimes only because of luck) will determine, if what he wanted to achieve works. I love it when luck works with me even though I'm a low HC.
Winged Foot.
not "Wingfoot"
i played my first medal in freezing conditions, 18 frozen temporary greens surrounded by muddy footprints, no run up no pitch on, i played to 18, i was a very happy 13 year old......wingfoot schmingfoot.
+fradaja *Winged Foot
This kind of stuff is why the U.S. Open is the best tournament in the world.
I never understood people bichin about a tough course. Every golfer plays the same, just play better than the rest
I was there.
Robert Collins you must be old
chances are we going to hear golfers complain again this week. they know better than anyone else the US Open is the toughest tournament to play. Sandy Tatum couldn't be more right about trying to identify the best golfers in the world. Lee Trevino's quote about accuracy also sticks with the identity of the US Open. a guy shouldn't win the US Open by hitting the ball all over the place. today's era that's exactly the way a lot of golfers play any tournament...
and why do they change par on courses for the US open
if it's a 72 let them play it at 72
a 530 par 4
come on
regrettably, technology has changed significantly and the existing courses - developed decades ago and limited in space - simply can't stay the same. one answer is to make par 5's par 4's. simple as that.
It doesn't mean anythiong wether it's a par 4 or 5 or 6 since they are all playing the same course against each other. The winner has the least number of strokes no matter the rating of the course.
When Luck becomes a determining factor in making Par then it's not Golf anymore. That's not identifying the best player i.e. the most skilled. One player, one, shot the lights out at Oakmont and the USGA punished everyone the following year. These are the best golfers on the planet. If they can't shoot Par for 72 holes then it's silly. You'd think after the Shinnecock fiascos (plural) that they'd provide a proper test.
Luck has _always_ played a part in golf. Two guys hit almost identical tee shots that land a yard apart. On lands on a flat spot and rolls to a stop. The other catches just a bit of a side slope and kicks left into the rough. It happens.
Someone once said a golf course should reward good shots and punish bad ones. My suspicion is that Winged Foot punished bad shots, but didn't reward the good ones.
Fair statement. If we look at oakmont the first two rounds numbers 1, 9, 10, 18 are all playing at roughly 4.5 this year. That's 18 strokes vs 16 strokes. So course par is 72. I would suggest number 9 be played as a par 5 as members do to make it a par 71. Just my opinion.
Jake Carlisle Oakmont's 9th hole is now "too short" to be played as a par-5, you can't move the tee back either, the PA Turnpike is kind of behind the tee.
Someone told me in the USGA's "pre-visit" to Winged Foot, they're tossing around the idea of perhaps playing the 9th hole as the front nine par-5 instead of the 5th... I guess it is dependent on whether the club decides to build a new tee on either the 5th or 9th.
7:31 Bingo Mr. Trevino
Every modern day touring pro should be forced to watch this video. Then, they should be told "shut up, and just go out and play."
Please.....Pros who cant help but to break par need an occasional challenge, and where better than the US Open? I honestly would like to see scores in the 80s as a norm during this tournament and test character of being reduced to amateur score level.
Song at the beginning??
i preferred watching the open the year before, when Johnny shot 63 sunday at oakmont
DAVID R you can watch that type of play every single week these days almost
How golf should be for the Pros. Big bucks means they should be put under the pump to see how they do their strategy and get out of trouble.
So basically the USGA got their ego hurt and decided to not choose a course that’s challenging, that tests every aspect of a players game, makes them create shots they’ve never practiced and weigh the pros and cons of every shot choice, and have the most creative and talented player win. No they just said well let’s just make the rough long and the greens fast. They sound like a bunch of pompous bitches who got their feelings hurt but we’re too lazy to create or find a more challenging course. So they took the easy and cheap way out to make them feel better about themselves.
2:02-2:28 Hmmm....
Gary player is a psychopath
some golfers couldn't hole putts and the ball rolled about. not exactly a massacre lol
K
No excuse. If the ball can,t come to rest near the hole the course and the game is a joke. Poor management.
Pithy sayings and defensiveness thinly disguised as self-congratulatory gestures can't change the simple fact that they completely lost control of the course in their misguided desire to protect par on the hallowed, Tillie layout just a short drive from Gotham/Manhattan, and protect the egos at Winged Foot and the USGA. The ridiculous scores attest to this fact and, notwithstanding Hale Irwin's courageous and brilliant play, this weekend was the low point in the history of major championship golf. The effects of this debacle were a huge negative impact on golf because 'tricking up' the course became a recurring theme. In Tiger's prime, they tricked those courses up so much that the contest became a virtual lottery, resulting in a parade of no-names walking off with major trophies, never to be seen or heard from again. A true disgrace and a permanent black mark on the integrity of the game.
Hilarion Tada Ever Play the course? I have and it is the greatest test of golf even without the USGA. Hit it in the rough and you should be penalized. PERIOD. Hit it in the bunker and you should be penalized. PERIOD. Thats all Winged Foot did as few courses do these days. All golf is these days is Driver-wedge, Driver Wedge.
Winged foot brought out the best long iron players in the game and Hale Irwin was all of that. Winged Foot is and always will be a masterpiece that seperates the men from the boys.
No one ever said they lost control of this tournament EVER. It played exactly the way they wanted it to that week. Winged Foot is an incredibly difficult course to begin with and they set out to make it even more difficult because they did not want a repeat of the prior year. The fact that the final top 10 included 6 HOFers and a golfer who would win the US Open the very next year shows you that it was a great test to identify the best.