Also, the problems with immutable distros and KDE are KDE problems, not the distros. The problem is too many things in KDE still want to write to /usr when they have no business doing so for user changes like themes etc.
Gnome is easier to target for immutability because it has a smaller footprint / stack - and the release schedule for these tools are largely the same...whereas plasma- has fragmented projects / timelines that do not allow for better coordination and project management - which then impacts deployment of final versions of things.
If you use or even like the Gnome desktop, that's perfectly fine. Same for KDE, and you make a fair point about fragmentation in a project, this is after all a natural consequence of having more moving parts working in various states of momentum. KDE Plasma has far more features and customization, some in various states of polish or lackluster maintenance. Problem with Gnomes development is that maintainers are often caught up in internal bickering and roadblocking solutions until it's convenient *for them* and not the user base. Yes, Gnome has improved. No, they don't make the process of these improvements any easier on themselves nor for their users.
Nevertheless. KDE is a more accessible DE for users of a number of monitors, because it allows the vast majority of x11 applications to scale, even in wayland. GNOME, in its wisdom, did not implement any decision on this matter. You ask yourself: whose goal is the project, and whose goal is people.
@@profetik777 cosmic has potential to be the definitive immutable DE, it's customizable enough and also won't do dumb stuff like KDE by writing in /usr
I’ve been binge watching your videos. Just got a fresh new laptop to try daily driving Linux for the first time. Your insights are invaluable to curing choice paralysis. Thank you 🙏
I believe you are correct, the error occurs because you are using an immutable distro. When installing the theme and then it asks you to put in your password, it asks for your password because it is installing the SDDM portion of the “Global Theme”. If there is no request to put in your password, then it’s because there’s no SDDM theme included in the Global Theme that you are installing. Installing the SDDM portion of the theme, is a “system” component installation(to the /etc directory) hence the need to put in your password, and then the failure to get it installed because your distro is immutable. How did you manage to get a Global Theme installed? You installed a theme that does not include an SDDM Theme, and therefore were not prompted to put in your password. For example, Lavanda Sea, or Lavanda Sea-Dark. I could be wrong about this but I’m pretty sure this is what is happening. If I’m wrong I will gladly stand corrected. Cheers
Like I said in your last Kinoite video, the reason you cannot install global themes with their own SDDM tweak is that SDDM tweaking requires root. You can still install all the other pieces of the team without the SDDM part, but if you really want to theme the SDDM on Kinoite, there are instructions online how to do so
Yes, there are solutions like packing as rpm. So workaround for changing SDDM theme you have to 1) layer package 2) reboot. That's a long way for simple theme switching, don't you think so? Reason is SDDM themes directory in immutable part of system. Solution is being discussed on github, hopefully.
There is a way, it's risky and you shouldn't ever do it But if you used something like fedora sway atomic you can create a root user, and go from there
I tried the Fedora Onyx version. I liked it just fine. I'm just too lazy to figure out how to change the cursor theme. That was the only thing I wanted to change. Small things. It is what it is.
"KDE theme could not decompress archive" google search reveals you have to install the theme manually by downloading it first. It still wont show up in the themes manager but it will apply according to the posts on fedora boards.
Hello Matt, hope your week has been swell! I've recently been at work on my own custom images based on Kinoite and Silverblue. The UBlue-OS project has the convenience of an ansible playbook (system deployment utility) with the power of a container building process. I've recently moved over to Kinoite but with some additional packages baked into both of my images, so I don't have to layer anything locally. It's satisfying to have all the stuff you need right away with one command! About the theming issue, for my case I'm just glad KDE can set Breeze accent colors per-wallpaper. I am kinda... having burn out on theming? I'm more than fine with meager tweaks to vanilla themes currently... Glad to see you giving this another shot, all the same.
@thelinuxcast aren't themes written into the system core levels, not userland when it a global theme as it would be from the download in themes packages. That's why it gives the error..
I'm pretty sure the issue with the error is KDE stores SDDM themes in a read-only location. Not all themes have SDDM themes, which is why not all themes have the error.
I had Fedora40 Kinoite installed for two days and couldn't stand the bugs. I tried almost every atomic spin (and even Fedora Cinnamon) before I settled on Bluefin. So far, so good
Considering the changes you've made to the stock kinoite image with uBlue, it sounds like you would like opensuse kalpa (although it is still in alpha). It comes with distrobox OOTB and firefox flatpak rather than rpm like fedora
Video on VanillaOS 2 Orchid? from my understanding i can swap out any part... i would like to have an immutable without LTS involvement, So VanillaOS 2 Orchid without Gnome, i hope that is the combination i am looking for. I am a noob to Linux, learning from 6 hour course through free-code-camp.
I am now on Tuxedo OS for about 3 months on several machines and never had any issues. I ama normal user. Tuxedo is an company Distro and basically identical to KDE neon. Supposedly Tuxedo tests KDE Plasma and Ubuntu before releading the update. That makes it so stable, I guess. Just go for KDE neon or Tuxedo.
I see the whole KDE Plasma settings theme download feature to be unclean and very clunky and It would be better served with KDE's Discover... as for the immutable distro is great concept just don't think we have the execution perfected... hopefully they test the hell out of it and It can get to more hands...
I'm watching this, and just waiting for KDE 6.1, NVIDIA 555 and the next wayland release on Kinoite. Then I'll probably try linux again and see if I have any luck with that.
Downside of updating with Discover you always have to restart. Not so with updating with the terminal. And I've noticed that when you change your theme Neofetch shows the wrong theme. Same with your Neofetch. You use Dracula, but it shows Breeze. Makes no difference which theme you use. Weird🤔 But I gave up on theming, so for me I doesn't matter. I just use the dark Breeze.
A lot of the problem is still Wayland. Even KDE has a work list on it, admits Wayland isn't ready. It's not. I would try X11 on this and compare. And I would still choose Kinoite because Gnome is pushing Wayland hard... great, but there are fix issues across the board. I wouldn't suggest Nvidia with this either yet. Overall, I haven't had great performance with Fedora. They supposedly fixed the package grinding though.
I've been intrigued by immutable distros (being the future and all) but I dont have any machine to test it on and installing an immutable distro is what borked my drive the first time on my machine lol I know plasma is supposed to be a buggy mess but I run a pretty clean default version. It works well as long as you don't intend on doings much with it. The only things I need it for is pressing the super key and alt-space for krunner. I don't like gnome because it's shit for gaming and i know there are ways around it like using gamescope but eeeeh Thank you for the video Matt! Will be looking forward to the next one!
@@Flackon it's partially a joke. But to help answer the question a little, immutable distro are seen as more friendly to regular, casual users. While the tinkerers love to mess with config files and all that, a lot of people just want a distro to install and forget about having to do. anything with it after. If there's going to be a "year of the Linux desktop" it's going to be an immutable distro that makes it so. They're more stable, secure, and not easy to break. I know there isn't much technical concepts here lol but I'm not sure if you wanted more of a technical answer or a vibes based one lol
I am a gnome guy these days - and glad Kinoite exists...but it would greatly benefit from a "beta" tagging in its naming convention so as to manage user expectations betters. Have you tried Aeon OS?
Gnome irritates the heck out of me. Too much "Mac" like taking away all the power use features and custom configs which I find a breeze with KDE. Like I have a toolbar at the bottom on laptop screen, my big screen on top and toolbar on the top of the screen. Try that with Gnome and you swear half the day. Don't even try with Windows any version. And I am kinda stuck in my ways now so now I want the toolbar on top and bottom, auto hide, with proper start button. I really like the idea of immutable with KDE and everything in containers and VM's. For that setup - which distro would you recommend?
Question: If I install Kubuntu And then Distrobox and KVM And then Windows 11 inside a KVM And Docker in it's own Distrobox And Podman in it's own Distrobox Given some self discipline to not mess around in the root level and doing everything in the containers and VM's Then I would pretty much achieve the same - more or less - minus the OStree benefits?
Distrobox does by default. I do no remember how but it does have a flag to assign it a different home directory. You can create one and keep all of them in there I believe.
I luv how content creators always ask for a 'thumbs-up' before the video. It feels tacky. How can we change things up to to run more smoothly? Anyhow, currently looking for the best distro for a Raspberry Pi 5 - LOL... I identify with the eternal noob.
Bruv, if kde is asking for your password, that means its trying to modify stuff outside your home dir. Thats why it needs root priv. Error appears because as an immutable distro Kinoite won't let you touch anything outside your home dir.
Maybe you should relisten to what I said, bruv, I said that it was an incompatible feature. Which is why I said that gnome is a better option at the end of the video
I can't STAND Fedora... and any issues you had with it were NOT due to KDE. I've had KDE on everything I use and NO issues with it whatsoever. Can't stand gnome on Anything- it's just USELESS...redundant.. and JUNK...
I swear, it's like everyone is trying their absolute hardest to ignore that MX Linux/Debian is a thing, and it's even easier and more stable than an immutable distro. Yes, that's right. More stable. Come at me, bros.
@arnox4554 probably didn't affect downstream distros but debian system update 14 had a bug that led to filesystem corruption, and 15 had one that broke network manager really badly (like, sudo stopped working badly). You said come at you, this is the best I got!
First of all, if someone hasn't installed Fedora, and its spins, on laptops and desktops, with and without Nvidia/AMD/Intel video cards, then they don't really know what total garbage Fedora puts out. Gnome out of the box is total garbage too. The default settings are so idiotic that a person wonders how stupid the software developers must be. You have to set the best mirrors (why not auto detect and set it as default), the free and non-free repos have to be set, and setting rmpfusion, and that is just for starters, then there is setting up Gnome default that again is total garbage out of the box. Dnf, rmp, flatpack, what a hot mess. The spins are ten times worse. These are the same idiots behind the bloated garbage called systemd. No thanks. I'll take a community and indepandant linux distro, that is way better, and isn't backed by a multi-billion dollar outfit run by clowns. Don't believe me? Try installing Solus after or before and everything works flawlessly out of the box, no issues whatsoever, and eopkg is simple, not a bundle of confused mess like Fedora garbage.
Also, the problems with immutable distros and KDE are KDE problems, not the distros. The problem is too many things in KDE still want to write to /usr when they have no business doing so for user changes like themes etc.
Gnome is easier to target for immutability because it has a smaller footprint / stack - and the release schedule for these tools are largely the same...whereas plasma- has fragmented projects / timelines that do not allow for better coordination and project management - which then impacts deployment of final versions of things.
If you use or even like the Gnome desktop, that's perfectly fine. Same for KDE, and you make a fair point about fragmentation in a project, this is after all a natural consequence of having more moving parts working in various states of momentum. KDE Plasma has far more features and customization, some in various states of polish or lackluster maintenance.
Problem with Gnomes development is that maintainers are often caught up in internal bickering and roadblocking solutions until it's convenient *for them* and not the user base. Yes, Gnome has improved. No, they don't make the process of these improvements any easier on themselves nor for their users.
Plasma is considering moving to a similar release schedule to gnome once plasma 6 is out and stabilized
Nevertheless. KDE is a more accessible DE for users of a number of monitors, because it allows the vast majority of x11 applications to scale, even in wayland. GNOME, in its wisdom, did not implement any decision on this matter. You ask yourself: whose goal is the project, and whose goal is people.
@@profetik777 cosmic has potential to be the definitive immutable DE, it's customizable enough and also won't do dumb stuff like KDE by writing in /usr
I’ve been binge watching your videos. Just got a fresh new laptop to try daily driving Linux for the first time. Your insights are invaluable to curing choice paralysis. Thank you 🙏
I can never keep all the Fedora names in my head... Nobara, Kinoite, silverblue.
Capture card looks like it worked just fine!
Q. The Most Stable Linux Distro?
A. Debian
I believe you are correct, the error occurs because you are using an immutable distro. When installing the theme and then it asks you to put in your password, it asks for your password because it is installing the SDDM portion of the “Global Theme”. If there is no request to put in your password, then it’s because there’s no SDDM theme included in the Global Theme that you are installing. Installing the SDDM portion of the theme, is a “system” component installation(to the /etc directory) hence the need to put in your password, and then the failure to get it installed because your distro is immutable.
How did you manage to get a Global Theme installed? You installed a theme that does not include an SDDM Theme, and therefore were not prompted to put in your password. For example, Lavanda Sea, or Lavanda Sea-Dark.
I could be wrong about this but I’m pretty sure this is what is happening. If I’m wrong I will gladly stand corrected.
Cheers
Does SteamOS count as an immutable distro? I think I remember that you can change global themes there without errors
Like I said in your last Kinoite video, the reason you cannot install global themes with their own SDDM tweak is that SDDM tweaking requires root. You can still install all the other pieces of the team without the SDDM part, but if you really want to theme the SDDM on Kinoite, there are instructions online how to do so
Yes, there are solutions like packing as rpm. So workaround for changing SDDM theme you have to 1) layer package 2) reboot. That's a long way for simple theme switching, don't you think so? Reason is SDDM themes directory in immutable part of system. Solution is being discussed on github, hopefully.
There is a way, it's risky and you shouldn't ever do it
But if you used something like fedora sway atomic you can create a root user, and go from there
I tried the Fedora Onyx version. I liked it just fine. I'm just too lazy to figure out how to change the cursor theme. That was the only thing I wanted to change. Small things. It is what it is.
"KDE theme could not decompress archive" google search reveals you have to install the theme manually by downloading it first. It still wont show up in the themes manager but it will apply according to the posts on fedora boards.
Hello Matt, hope your week has been swell! I've recently been at work on my own custom images based on Kinoite and Silverblue. The UBlue-OS project has the convenience of an ansible playbook (system deployment utility) with the power of a container building process. I've recently moved over to Kinoite but with some additional packages baked into both of my images, so I don't have to layer anything locally. It's satisfying to have all the stuff you need right away with one command! About the theming issue, for my case I'm just glad KDE can set Breeze accent colors per-wallpaper. I am kinda... having burn out on theming? I'm more than fine with meager tweaks to vanilla themes currently...
Glad to see you giving this another shot, all the same.
@thelinuxcast aren't themes written into the system core levels, not userland when it a global theme as it would be from the download in themes packages. That's why it gives the error..
I'm pretty sure the issue with the error is KDE stores SDDM themes in a read-only location. Not all themes have SDDM themes, which is why not all themes have the error.
I had Fedora40 Kinoite installed for two days and couldn't stand the bugs. I tried almost every atomic spin (and even Fedora Cinnamon) before I settled on Bluefin. So far, so good
Try AEON OS! You would love it....aside from it being gnome, not sure if you are a fan of gnome lol
Considering the changes you've made to the stock kinoite image with uBlue, it sounds like you would like opensuse kalpa (although it is still in alpha). It comes with distrobox OOTB and firefox flatpak rather than rpm like fedora
Fun fact, some of the Ublue offshoots (like Bazzite) also make Firefox a flatpak only.
You can remove the rpm firefox and use flatpak.
Video on VanillaOS 2 Orchid? from my understanding i can swap out any part... i would like to have an immutable without LTS involvement, So VanillaOS 2 Orchid without Gnome, i hope that is the combination i am looking for.
I am a noob to Linux, learning from 6 hour course through free-code-camp.
The hashtag stroke part was hilarious. 😂
but how did valve achieve the theme compactibility?
I am now on Tuxedo OS for about 3 months on several machines and never had any issues. I ama normal user. Tuxedo is an company Distro and basically identical to KDE neon. Supposedly Tuxedo tests KDE Plasma and Ubuntu before releading the update. That makes it so stable, I guess.
Just go for KDE neon or Tuxedo.
I see the whole KDE Plasma settings theme download feature to be unclean and very clunky and It would be better served with KDE's Discover... as for the immutable distro is great concept just don't think we have the execution perfected... hopefully they test the hell out of it and It can get to more hands...
You can download them in discover but I always forget that
Weird there is a Sway version but does not seem to be any Hyprland versions. But yet all these legacy old X window managers whos days are numbered.
openSUSE Aeon is better. No firefox installed as system package….. and more stable imo
I'm watching this, and just waiting for KDE 6.1, NVIDIA 555 and the next wayland release on Kinoite. Then I'll probably try linux again and see if I have any luck with that.
Any distro is stable if you use appimages or any other portable package media (without root access of course) and avoid any partial upgrades
is there a gui for everything, or at least CLI?
Get 15% off your order at our Merch Shop until Monday Night. Use code BLACKFRIDAY23 at checkout - shop.thelinuxcast.org
The most stable? Debian with xfce.
Only for Enterprise environments outside of that, Fedora.
You sure 39 isn't out? We had Fedora 39 on bazzite on day 1. Make sure you're rebased to latest - or maybe kinoite itself held back for some reason
The kinoite one isn't or at least wasn't listed.
Downside of updating with Discover you always have to restart. Not so with updating with the terminal. And I've noticed that when you change your theme Neofetch shows the wrong theme. Same with your Neofetch. You use Dracula, but it shows Breeze. Makes no difference which theme you use. Weird🤔 But I gave up on theming, so for me I doesn't matter. I just use the dark Breeze.
A lot of the problem is still Wayland. Even KDE has a work list on it, admits Wayland isn't ready. It's not. I would try X11 on this and compare. And I would still choose Kinoite because Gnome is pushing Wayland hard... great, but there are fix issues across the board. I wouldn't suggest Nvidia with this either yet. Overall, I haven't had great performance with Fedora. They supposedly fixed the package grinding though.
Starting in 2025 KDE will be doing updates like Gnome does twice a year instead of several times a year.
Curious to hear your thoughts on Mageia 9
I've been intrigued by immutable distros (being the future and all) but I dont have any machine to test it on and installing an immutable distro is what borked my drive the first time on my machine lol
I know plasma is supposed to be a buggy mess but I run a pretty clean default version. It works well as long as you don't intend on doings much with it. The only things I need it for is pressing the super key and alt-space for krunner. I don't like gnome because it's shit for gaming and i know there are ways around it like using gamescope but eeeeh
Thank you for the video Matt! Will be looking forward to the next one!
I’m curious but, how are they the future?
I hear that a lot but interestingly I haven’t heard anyone explain why
@@Flackon it's partially a joke. But to help answer the question a little, immutable distro are seen as more friendly to regular, casual users. While the tinkerers love to mess with config files and all that, a lot of people just want a distro to install and forget about having to do. anything with it after. If there's going to be a "year of the Linux desktop" it's going to be an immutable distro that makes it so. They're more stable, secure, and not easy to break. I know there isn't much technical concepts here lol but I'm not sure if you wanted more of a technical answer or a vibes based one lol
I am a gnome guy these days - and glad Kinoite exists...but it would greatly benefit from a "beta" tagging in its naming convention so as to manage user expectations betters.
Have you tried Aeon OS?
Not yet. Soon though
Gnome irritates the heck out of me. Too much "Mac" like taking away all the power use features and custom configs which I find a breeze with KDE. Like I have a toolbar at the bottom on laptop screen, my big screen on top and toolbar on the top of the screen. Try that with Gnome and you swear half the day. Don't even try with Windows any version.
And I am kinda stuck in my ways now so now I want the toolbar on top and bottom, auto hide, with proper start button.
I really like the idea of immutable with KDE and everything in containers and VM's.
For that setup - which distro would you recommend?
Bazzite.
If I go with KDE Plasma, I'll pick CachyOS.
Question:
If I install Kubuntu
And then Distrobox and KVM
And then Windows 11 inside a KVM
And Docker in it's own Distrobox
And Podman in it's own Distrobox
Given some self discipline to not mess around in the root level and doing everything in the containers and VM's
Then I would pretty much achieve the same - more or less - minus the OStree benefits?
There is also a Sway version sericea
Luke Smith worn the people about this a long time ago what gonna happen to us , it's bad man , very bad !
I don’t like how toolbox apps still craps up your home folder. Does it still share that folder?
Distrobox does by default. I do no remember how but it does have a flag to assign it a different home directory. You can create one and keep all of them in there I believe.
Use -h in distrobox to define a custom directory.
Most stable = Debian.
Distro couldn't even install on my laptop
Great, but what is your laptop
Appears to be an XPS 13 9378 from the Konsole display.
@@k.b.tidwell Em, okay great
Strange. The theme icons change after selecting and before entering in your password.
And those shouldn't change until the theme is applied. All I did was install it.
Very strange.
yeah, Gnome is like windows, you use it because you have to, not because you want to lol
can you do a tutorial on how to setup a wireless network on neptune is aka Debian distro
I luv how content creators always ask for a 'thumbs-up' before the video. It feels tacky. How can we change things up to to run more smoothly? Anyhow, currently looking for the best distro for a Raspberry Pi 5 - LOL... I identify with the eternal noob.
You know why we do it? Because it works. My views per video have doubled since I started asking.
@@TheLinuxCast It's why everyone does it. How the human mind processes things unconsciously is very fasinating.
Opensuse's micro os is better imo
Lol no way. You cannot be serious?
Test BazziteOS great for gaming !!
I use Distrobox to load Arch to install neofetch, BTW :P
(None of the above is true)
Arch with LTS 🤓
What happens if you install a theme on Discover? Not through the global theme settings. Does it still give you an error? Just wondering. Thx.
Honestly not sure. I know that themes and plasmoids are in Discover, but I always forget it too. I will check
@TheLinuxCast Cool. Love your content!
UwU
KDE and immutability is funny.
why, nixos+kde all working flawlessly
just no (for me, that is) - to Fedora, and to immutable / locked distros... not my beer
Bruv, if kde is asking for your password, that means its trying to modify stuff outside your home dir. Thats why it needs root priv. Error appears because as an immutable distro Kinoite won't let you touch anything outside your home dir.
Maybe you should relisten to what I said, bruv, I said that it was an incompatible feature. Which is why I said that gnome is a better option at the end of the video
I can't STAND Fedora... and any issues you had with it were NOT due to KDE. I've had KDE on everything I use and NO issues with it whatsoever. Can't stand gnome on Anything- it's just USELESS...redundant.. and JUNK...
I swear, it's like everyone is trying their absolute hardest to ignore that MX Linux/Debian is a thing, and it's even easier and more stable than an immutable distro. Yes, that's right. More stable. Come at me, bros.
system patches 14 and 15.
@@paultapping9510 ?
@arnox4554 probably didn't affect downstream distros but debian system update 14 had a bug that led to filesystem corruption, and 15 had one that broke network manager really badly (like, sudo stopped working badly). You said come at you, this is the best I got!
@@paultapping9510 Alright, but I'm not sure exactly what update you're referring to. System update 14/15 could refer to any number of things.
You've expressed your disappointment in several videos about the bulginess of KDE. Use your frequent distro switching to find something better.
I make videos about everything. So no.
I guess you just like to complain about KDE then.
Just delete KDE from your life and use anything else... you'll thank me later.
Is it still bad? I used it once... Really broken.
First of all, if someone hasn't installed Fedora, and its spins, on laptops and desktops, with and without Nvidia/AMD/Intel video cards, then they don't really know what total garbage Fedora puts out. Gnome out of the box is total garbage too. The default settings are so idiotic that a person wonders how stupid the software developers must be. You have to set the best mirrors (why not auto detect and set it as default), the free and non-free repos have to be set, and setting rmpfusion, and that is just for starters, then there is setting up Gnome default that again is total garbage out of the box. Dnf, rmp, flatpack, what a hot mess. The spins are ten times worse. These are the same idiots behind the bloated garbage called systemd. No thanks. I'll take a community and indepandant linux distro, that is way better, and isn't backed by a multi-billion dollar outfit run by clowns. Don't believe me? Try installing Solus after or before and everything works flawlessly out of the box, no issues whatsoever, and eopkg is simple, not a bundle of confused mess like Fedora garbage.