Because fuck you that's why. Damn. Just chillin put here and I hear some fire like that. - - - - - - "Why are you bullying me I'm right" This is funny and so true to life
The power source is not white supremacy, that is the facade. It paints a face on the invisible enemy, a decoy or shield. The power source is the concept of property. I know this might be a little deeper than most of us are willing to dig just yet and will likely appear to mean nothing as yet, but please do keep it in mind. It will become very important later.
This is just my opinion but i think the reading on the "not all cops scene" has been misread by a lot of people. That scene is directly juxtaposed to the death of Falcone by both batman and the cops handing the kill to Riddler. I think it shows how incompetent Batman and the GCPD are and I think the whole film revolves around how incompetent they are. Batman messes up the hero moment when he fleas the police station, they completely mess up the hint El Rata Alada and Batman even thinks Riddler knows his identity. I think that the reason the corruption arc ended so quickly is because that's more how it like in real life with cops patting themselves on the back and walking away with nothing changed after catching the "one" bad apple. The corruption in Gotham hasn't changed, the only thing that's going to be different is that Falcone is dead and Bruce changed on the inside but there's now gonna be a power vacuum in Gotham's underworld.
This would be excellent to visit/address in a sequel. Especially as batman struggles to reconstruct himself as a symbol of hope for Gotham. Can do a whole thing where he realizes he's not fit for the job and motivates him to find a successor to deliver that hope (robin)
Also I feel like people forget that the “not all cops” line was not in reference to them being bad. It’s that not all of them are on falcone’s payroll. That doesn’t mean all those cops there to arrest falcone were good, they just weren’t on his payroll. Plus the movie makes it pretty clear that Batman only trusts Gordon as a good person out of the gcpd, and maybe Martinez by the end?
i'd agree, if not for the movie's final message to be "trust the institutions". so no. i don't think this movie ultimately depicts the police as a failing part of the institution, but again effectively reinforces the few bad apples copaganda as acceptable.
I found the Thomas Wayne story an interesting touch. The philanthropist billionaire politician was corrupt like everyone else involved, and his initiatives amounted to nothing. Maybe he wasn't as evil, maybe he had better ideals, but he was part of it. The movie leans in in a couple places, like it did with Selina Kyle, but it pulls back. Hopefully in future movies they commit more strongly.
Yeah, his father ordering the silencing of a reporter isn't a bad thing just because he didn't intend to have him killed, he just wanted him silenced. That plot point almost took me out of the movie because his father was just as culpable as everyone else, but it felt like he got "redeemed" by the movie because he meant well. He meant so well, his actions led to a reporter getting killed by his command to protect his family's image.
@@Jane-oz7pp Well think they did it put the air of mystery about his death. Think who killed Thomas Wayner is like The Joker's origin..something that should be kept vauge. Also making Thomas Wayner super evil kind of to easy. It make people in power go "Hey aint doing all of THAT..so off the hook". If he was some mad man strangling hookers while he jerks off with 100 dollar bills it be easy to wash him away as anomaly
@Douglas Phillips The Telltale Batman series actually has this exact same plot point, but actually makes it integral to the story instead of wasting the opportunity.
I've never really been a fan of the "dark secrets of the Waynes" concept, mainly because I feel some of Bruce's morals need to come from his parents. However, I really like The Batman's approach to the idea. Thomas Wayne was still a good person, but that goodness led him to save Falcone's life. That association led him to compromise his morals in a moment of desperation, but he still never intended for the reporter to die, and by coincidence or "coincidence", he died before he could atone. Not to mention that his biggest effort to change things in Gotham got cannibalised after his death.
Honestly the weirdest thing about this movie is that it is really good at describing the problems it deals with, it seems to completely step over the obvious solution. The last scene still feels weird, because this whole time they've described capitalism and liberalism as inherently corrupt and incapable of reform, and instead of offering hope in changing any of that they just... vaguely gesture at faith in institutions. The problems in Gotham (and late stage liberal capitalism) isn't our faith in the hierarchy, it's the hierarchy itself. The corruption is the point, you don't make it better by just getting a good person as mayor, or as commissioner. It's weird and has such big Democratic Party energy.
Gotham and honestly ALL the super power cities have the same problem. Look at how many times Lex did something REALLY bad and he's back at work the next day all because he pays for what he and superman destroys. That city is basically their playground since people shit on Batman for not killing the Joker. Most heroes don't kill their rogues and for good reason because you'll have to END these stories and they don't want to do that. Yet when you have somebody like the Punisher killing the bad guys people then flip flop an claim he's bad too. So I don't know what people want if they're upset at the cop, the villain, the super hero, the anti hero.and then the overarching system of living we're all in. It makes it seem like people are upset with no solutions which leaves no hope at all.
@@ExeErdna Well think there only upset with the Joker thing is it happen so often. and writer always want to give Joker this insane body count. But see that as less of a batman fault..the city not able to keep this guy in Jail. When in reality some cop would of shot him why in custody and claim he was going for a acid shooting flower or something
@@jonsmith9838 Then the only reason why Joker pops up is because all the other villains simply moved on or became good. That's how and why we have different shade of "Batman" for villains and the Joker now. That's kinda it. They're making what they're complaining about.
@@ExeErdna People only PRETEND to hate Punisher, because it's the social fashion to pretend that all lives are sacred. In reality, almost everyone is relieved that somebody is stepping up to take these criminals out. And since Frank is just one man with no actual authority, he's less of a threat than a renegade cop, because he can't arrest you, frame you, etc, only kill you. He's also known to focus only on the blatantly guilty, and is inherently self-limiting because of only being one mortal man with an absurdly dangerous hobby. An excellent (if short-term) solution. The people who genuinely hate him are other heroes -- Spidey, Daredevil, etc -- who see their own dark side reflected in Frank and maintain the "no kill" because they need to tell themselves they're more than just disturbed people acting out violently.
Yeah the times this movie ventured into copaganda are the times I liked it the least. I groaned during the "we don't all work for you!" moment when Gordon arrests Falcone. There were two things that saved the movie for me. First the fact that it wasnt as bad as The Dark Knight Rises. Second, the fact that the film made it a priority to critique retributive justice. I see too many people online who want Batman to just be the punisher, and don't understand how horrifying, juvenile and dangerous that would be. Hell there are a ton of COPS who want to be the punisher. It frightens me that the the people who want Batman to kill don't realize that "rich white man killing anyone he thinks deserves it" is a pretty good description of a klansman. And it gets even worse when you consider how historically what is considered "crime" in the United States is connected to race.
How you described punished Batman is the reason I wonder about the people who want to abolish the police. The idea would be letting people police themselves but that assumes normal people are any better than cops when it comes to letting any sort of bias and power fantasies play out. Congrats, now we don’t have cops, just a ton of vigilantes with guns shooting pretty much whoever they see.
I enjoyed this take on the film and always enjoy your perspective on things! I enjoyed The Batman, solid 7-8 out of 10, but I really wish they fully committed to the idea of The Wayne family having ties to the corrupt aspects of Gotham, with Bruce not only fighting the bad apple cops, but also the dirty legacy of Thomas Wayne. Similar to what the Tell Tale Batman games did so well.
I agree, in just about every other adaptation the Wayne's are portrayed as super goodie two shoe philanthropists that could do no wrong, they're way too innocent for the type of setting Gotham is. Sure, that might be the point, but when you start bringing up ties to the mob it just gets silly. That scene where Alfred explained Thomas Wayne was horrified that Falcone killed that reporter is so eyeroll-inducing. Seriously, what else would any grown ass adult, let alone someone that grew up in Gotham of all places, expect from the mafia?
@@nagger8216 That's also sort of the point of them as goody two shoes though. Gotham chews people like that for lunch. And I say that as someone who thought the Telltale games did an excellent job with the "corrupt parents" angle.
I saw The Batman a few weeks ago with my friend, and really enjoyed it! It's not the best of the best as far as DC projects go (I'll leave that to the animated films and shows) but I really enjoyed how gothic they made the city look to be the perfect environment for Bats, and how Pattinson played Bruce as this undersocialized teenager. I loved Jeffrey Wright's portrayal of Jim Gordon and having him be the lone "good cop" for much of the movie showed how believably futile his actions were in the department. Yes, he was doing good, but how far can his actions go if he has to fight alone to do the right thing? He has to prove that cops can do good, honest work in the city not just for the Gothamites, but for himself - a black man who has seen injustices carried out by the arrogant and neglectful cops employed beneath him. He has to prove to himself that he can make a difference in the force that won't be swept away or undermined.
Would like to point out that it isn’t just Falcone that was part of this. It was also the former mayor, the DA, and the police chief that were also part of this conspiracy. It’s just that the Riddler killed all of them before Batman and Gordon could actually uncover the conspiracy and arrest them. Not just the one bad man as you put it. Definitely would love to see the Cort of Owls as the antagonists for the third movie as I’m a big fan of them as antagonists. Made a few good points though. Especially about politics and the politics behind that.
Gordon and Batman talk a lot about bad cops but the story still insists that there are good ones. the storyline is too afraid to take a stance and just hangs in the middle
@@itsfreerealestate15 It takes barely a step off the mainstream narrative of "There's some bad apples, but we're working on it! (read: Not really working on it)" to "both-sides" it. It's still leagues better than the Bale trilogy... I rewatched that pretty recently, and was shocked at how pro-cop it is. Oh, though during Bats' escape from the police station, the fact the cops chase him and then magdump right there, with plenty of innocents and other cops in line of fire, was hilarious to me. I feel like somebody HAD to be going "Yeah, we know what it's really like, we just can't say it..." with that one.
@@itsfreerealestate15 well not really. The story is completely about corruption and the police is a big part of that. The movie only really presents two good cops, Gordon and officer Martinez. Sure batman didn't arrest every cop, and a lot of them were their for the arrest of Falcone, however your idea of them being ''good'' cops is based on the fact of them being there for the arrest of a bad guy. But that doesn't confirm them to be good or bad. It's implied heavily that there is still deep corruption everywhere. I mean like yeah there are good cops in gotham pd, because there's always gonna be at least a few good ones, it insists that there is more corruption. It doesn't hang in the middle at all. It is completely about power and corruption.
This It's very clear in the context of the film that the entire system is fucked and that's why electing the new mayor and Bruce having to readjust as a symbol of hope (as Bruce and Batman) is so vital to the film.
@@thatoneguy-jk6ts The film is definitely about corruption and I don't think it's a coincidence considering the role Bruce plays (as the billionaire and Batman) is challenged directly by both the mayoral candidate and the Riddler. It's questioning his own role within the already corrupt framework that is Gotham City and fits well with the reveals about the D.A, Mayor and Commissioner Hell with the allusions to greater corruption in Gotham and the rumours about Court of Owls this is likely going to be a recurring theme in this trilogy. I don't mind La'ron but I think he's a bit off the mark here
I loved this movie but they really should have just had Gordon be the only good cop. The corruption within the cops should have been explored more. They were nearly there but just didn't commit
Just cut down the number in the "good cops" scene by 1/2 to 3/4. The movie still needed a decent amount for the flood scene, unless they were just gonna have hired security fill the roll. There's a way to make a single good cop work, but I wouldn't expect DC to go all in on ACAB, especially considering which party they support the most.
Honestly I completely agree. I think that was my main problem with the film.bit had the themes right there but needed to bite just a lil harder. If they got rid of the joker scene they could use that time to have a scene that really demonstrates the themes more
Yea, about half the amount could have worked, because it's reasonable to assume that some young cops are there because they genuinely think it's the right thing to do and haven't been taken in yet. Newbies, mostly, could have at least played it off as a reform story.
@@questioningespecialy9107 Which is kind of disappointing tbh, because Batman's arc at by end of the movie, beating the shit out of that guy and learning he has to be an *actual* hero that protects and saves people, and can't just beat the shit out of bad guys, would've been an interesting commentary on real police brutality
@@alexman378 "If they “regularly” abused their power, you’d be seeing a whole lot more deaths" You do, over a thousand people were killed in just the last year alone from police related shootings. I tried linking my sources for that but RUclips doesn't like links in comments anymore and kept deleting it, so unfortunately all I can say is 'Goggle it' but trust me, I didn't have to dig deep to find at least three different sources all saying the same thing after just Googling "US police brutality statistics", namely the Washington Post, Mapping Police Violence, and Statista. And it's been at least a thousand for the past five years, it's not everyone else's fault you're too stupid and stubborn to see the truth, just because it's not on the evening news every night doesn't mean it's not happening. "Because I see them more than willing to accept that good criminals exist, but as soon as you tell them there are good cops, oof, all hell breaks loose. Case in point." lol Nevermind this terrible strawman, I'll bite. Yes, generally people want to see the good in people than assume the worst because that's better than the ugly, harsh reality. And when they're proven wrong about the people they put their faith in it ironically leads to fostering these feelings of resentment and distrust, case and point: cops. Cops are not normal citizens, they are not your equal, they are legally above you. There is an obvious power dynamic going on every time you interact with one and the possibility always exists they will take full advantage of that and you *will be* powerless to defend yourself, one way or the other. Body cams exist for a reason bro.
On the topic of Selina and Annika: Can we just take a moment to appreciate bisexual Cat Woman? There's no way that her calling her "baby" when they lived together wasn't meant to indicate they were an item. Disappointing that she only referred to her as her friend to Batman and Jim, though.
I don't know about that, I mean I think she could well be bisexual but If they were an item I would think that she would have been a lot more distraught and specifically said she was her girlfriend. I honestly think they're intended just to be friends. She calls Batman baby too.
I really enjoyed the piece, but I don't know if I line up with the conclusion, because like others have already stated I don't think this movie is trying to say he's stopped corruption in the city. He just learned how complacent he's been even as batman. Gotham is worse off then ever at the very end, but batman is better then he started. But more important then that is I don't think killing people is right. Catwoman killing Falcone was NOT the right thing to do. That would make Riddler the hero of the story. Power needs to be removed from them and maybe in the real world it would take a bloodbath and several violent actors willing to lose pieces of themselves, but in these escapist fantasy stories batman and superman are suppose to be able to find ways to not do this with their great power.
I want the next film in The Batman series to feature a return of cop corruption, as Gordon and Wayne realize that the corruption is endemic to the institution. I know that won't happen, but I'd love to see it.
I feel like realistically, the corruption within Gotham pd would get worse since Falcones gone and the corrupted would latch onto Cobblepot next(I think something similar went on in the Gotham show)
Not sure how alone I am in this opinion but the framing of Bruce and Selena's relationship felt weird to me. Yes, he has literally no friends or love life to speak of, but the shots of him in opposition to Selena felt oversexualized and unnecessary to me. Like, her girlfriend just died and she's still framed as this pseudo-romantic/sexual character next to him, and someone he has to keep an eye on to keep in line and someone he can fawn over in the shadows like a "damned love" story.
In almost every scene of them, she takes off her mask and is vulnerable and he NEVEr reciprocates She is so unrealistic just his pixie dream girl that he creepily stalks and she likes it!?!?!
Giving Selina in the new film any kind of political label feels like a bit of a reach. She doesn't seem like any kind of activist or ideologue. She's just out for herself and trying to survive.
@@jordanjacksonshouseofhorrors I actually think most of Readus's analysis is good here. That one bit just stood out to me. But at the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their own interpretation.
"What's that? You want to know why I called the American colonizers instead of pilgrims? Because fuck you, that's why." Got a hearty chuckle out of me.
I loved the batman movie! However the moment that stood out to me so much was how Selena pointed out that if Falcone was arrested that nothing would happen because he controlled the courts, which Falcone also reiterated and then - he is killed. I honestly think they wrote themselves into a corner- if he survived then it would have either have to commit to an extreme pro cop narrative or acknowledge that nothing was really going to happen and the whole system had to be taken down. So he's shot. I definitely think the shot when its said "Not all of us" was pretty copaganda but I guess I just wonder what batman would have done if Falcone wasn't killed.
loved the movie, but I did roll my eyes real hard when they arrested falcone and the door opens to a crowd of "good" cops who apparently were still good eggs after they've established that the entire system's been rotten from the inside.
A great video as always, once again you’ve shown a whole different perspective to me and now I will view the Nolan movies in a whole new light. What I love about about the Batman comics is that (for the most part) it doesn’t glorify cops. Even with Batman and his wards taking up residence there GCPD is still known as an Institution where corruption, graft, violence, and racism is the rule, not the exception. I hear people all the time say, “why doesn’t Batman give money to the police force” because he knows he can’t, because they’d do god knows what with it. Why do they Supervillains at Arkham keep getting out so easily? Cause 9 times out of 10 the cops who are escorting them there are being bribed to let them out or turn a blind eye. Even Jim Gordon the “ideal cop” who sits in the highest spot in the police landscape can’t fix anything. He’s essentially powerless. Out of the entire city, there are only shown to be about 3 “good cops” Jim Gordon, (powerless), Renee Montoya, (Forced out for being gay), and Harvey Bullock, (shown to be an honest cop but a piece of shit human being). In Gotham it’s not a few bad apples, in Gotham they are all bad apples, and a few good ones won’t change anything.
I remember Gotham Central comic books being worse about this, despite being an otherwise well written series. The Gotham Special Crimes unit is all "good cops", and all the beat cops (and a few of the forensics guys) are all bad cops. IA is ofc framed as well intentioned but misguided.
The first time I watched it, I was overwhelmed with happiness at seeing an actual detective movie starring Batman. The third time I watched it, I was being a bit more critical, and realized that when Falcone gets arrested, Gordon basically pulls a “not all cops” answer to the movie’s criticism of police corruption. Not ideal. Still love the movie, my favorite Batman movie alongside the 60s Batman & The Dark Knight!
Is the mere suggestion that not all cops are inherently evil really that fucking unpalatable? The movie can show 'good' criminals and 'good' politicians but good cops? That's just too far, apparently.
@@MNGN101 for me, the issue isn't that the movie can't depict good cops, hell James Gordon in nearly every depiction of the character is what I hope an officer strives for. It's just that removing one bad cop makes it feel like "kumbya, the legal system is saved and there is no corruption in the system anymore". The final speech with the new mayor should have been reworded that instead of we need to "put trust in our systems" is that the "system needs to regain the people's trust". You can depict the necessity of law enforcement and criticize when the system let's it's people down or over steps it's boundaries. But I agree, you can have good and bad cops in the film, just like how it is in real life.
@@Kitchwamon Is that what she says? The quote was "we must rebuild people's faith," was it not? That's essentially what you're suggesting. I don't understand how anyone can watch the movie and interpret it as "kumbya, the legal system is saved and there is no corruption in the system anymore." Batman literally says "things are going to get worse before they get better." That, along with Bella Real's speech is basically saying "there is still work to be done." There wasn't really any subtlety to it, yet people are taking any notion of hopefulness presented in the film and interpreting it as some hyper-optimistic world view for whatever reason. Just because the cops didn't remain faithful to Falcone doesn't necessarily mean there are no longer corrupt cops.
I am a hobby writer, even that my work is very popular in the internet, I didn't find a editorial yet, for the last two years I have a goal to create my own superhero, I think that now I finally success it, even that I had the setting, the characters and all that, I needed to answer, how to fix systemic problems when the society is corrupted to the core, my answer is, destroy the corrupt foundations and begin from scratch, that why my hero first rodeo is not by capturing a mobster or a super criminal, but attacking the corrupt police taxi services, and calling the media, creating an scandal that make Internal Affairs not other choice than arrest corrupt police officers, that could reach to the Police Commissioner.
People in England: "What!? The British want to have a standing army? Like one that can be turned against its citizens? We gotta revolt and get out of here!" People in America Like Two Years Later: "Oh snap! People are revolting! We gotta get a standing army going!!"
Three cheers for Bud Cubby's speach! Have been dragging my feet in watching this movie. Hearing about how Selina is written is making be want to watch it more now. Wanna make some bacon?
I feel like the Mad Max films address policing in an interesting way. People fight,smoke and struggle whether there's police or not. That's the most dark truth take I've seen. The police aren't a solving factor in "terminal crazy". In fact,Max's deepest fear is that being police will drive him terminal crazy.
Perhaps this could be corrected by showing Batman frequently busting brutal cops in traffic stops, drug busts and protest marches? Show most uniformed officers just writing speeding tickets! Make Gordon more like Serpico, only he worked his way up to management by routine civil service tests, rather than "battlefield promotions" for being a "super-cop." I like his shell-shocked version in "Harley Quinn" cartoons, lol! Also, show Commissioner Gordon stumped by unsolved supervillain crimes, due to paranormal "X-Files" type crime scene evidence. Show Batman's villains outfighting SWAT teams, riot squads and National Guard troops single-handed, like the Terminator. Return their comic book technology and just make it more lethal. Both would show the limits of police against supervillains. Also show many unsolved cases, similar to D.B. Cooper or Jimmy Hoffa's disappearances, serial killings like Jack the Ripper's or the Zodiak Killers. Since the Riddler is based on the latter, perhaps his crimes were unsolved before Batman showed up. Show Batman using more advanced forensics and tactical technology than the police have.
In fifth grade police came to my school and explained what they did, and I asked what happens if they abused their siren to avoid red lights, or to get to a bakery to make sure they got the pie they wanted for lunch. I do not remember the answer, but I don't think I got in trouble for it
Yeah I came out of this movie being like “well the politics of this movie are INTERESTING”. It’s kinda funny tho cuz I know of like conservatives who came out of it like “iT wAs ToO wOkE”
It's definitely interesting. Definitely not interesting to come out stay is too woke. In my opinion, this movie definitely has stereotypical centrist approach to it's politics.
I hope the batman get a good trilogy if not at least a decant sequel without the joker in it there tons of other villian more fit for the tone of the batman movie like hush or the Court of awls
I want clayface, man-bat, or solomon grundy. Gimme the freaks dammit. Or, a villain that would really shine in this slow burn grounded formula, calender man or hush.
@@Readus101 Eastside myself! Curious if you've thought about doing an essay or video on Iron Man, especially 2000s Era, pre RDJ Iron Man. Cause some of the stuff boy was doing and how awful he was could be right up your alley!
Not a film or TV series, but a Webtoon called UnOrdinary is pretty good at displaying the corruption of the authorities under a super-powered lens. It doesn't cover the racism side, but the oppression of those born with less power and the fundamental flaws that are built into the system. It's not a perfect representation, but it's pretty damn good.
I think batman movies would work better if they would actually show police corruption like gordon litterally sees batman as a weapon outside of the law bc he doesnt trust his own force and i wish that dynamic and understanding was shown more, gotham pd is the worst gordon is the ONLY good cop save a few close friends of his he doesnt trust his own force and that needs to be highlighted to some degree
25:52 I gotta say, I always think of feminism as a strive for equality for all. The focus is on the gender hierarchies, and the nemesis is patriarchy/chauvinism, but it doesn't work if you're focusing mainly on white women. At least how I was raised in it, the whole point is equality for all. It's definitely not intended to include bias/something worse in the remedy. I suppose you say that about a second later, but it sounds crazy to me, to have feminism and elitism as a wide-spread concept.
Although I do hope that these large blockbuster movies take these issues seriously, they're not going to. At the end of the day, they need to still satisfy everyone, including those that are up in arms at the fact that they have a black Selena Kyle or black Jim Gordon. They're still going to go promote old problematic ideologies while virtue signaling.
Love the idea of using Selina to address this issue! I was thinking it was just hard to fully avoid the copaganada angle with Batman. This is definitely my favorite use of the Batman character. I'm a little worried about the Joker given Reeves background for him though
Subscribed. So glad to see this, because it mirrors my assessment of the movie, which I thought was a great piece of entertainment. The first 2/3 of the movie was set up to show the police force as occupying its true role of enforcers of the ruling class, but the last 1/3 "saved" the police for the liberal conception of police forces as protectors of the public good that have been corrupted. You make a great point about the removal of Falcone, The Batman immediately switches tone, moving from systemic issues to claiming that the problem with police isn't inherent to the system, but the actions of a small number of bad actors. Two movies with police as the primary focus that show police closer to how they actually are: Cop Land and The Glass Shield. An even better movie in this regard is the recent Sorry to Bother You. Can't wait to see your video about Jeffrey Wright as Commissioner Gordon!
I think you have an interesting take in that you thought Superheroes replace police, rather than reinforce the same system, or even problematic aspects of the police system. I loved the Superman Animated Series when I was growing up, but a difference I had noticed from batman (as a kid) was that Superman tends to just show up and solve the problem as he sees it to be solved. He didn't really stop to ask questions or look to why a crime was happening or even verify if the people he was rescuing were even truthful or heroic. It kind of felt like Superman just enforced the law as he wanted and chose to like an authoritarian would, where as with Batman I felt like he would do more detective work, not just stop the crime but figure out what was causing it and even change his perspective on who is the victim. You know, growing up even more I found Batman also problematic and unaccountable as well in a way that someone like Ironman did not. (In what ways Marvel comic characters really felt like they did not to me) In that Batman isn't just some Billionaire, he's some human god that also is using his powers to pick and choose how to enforce the law, with debates on if he can ever fix Gotham as he is said to, where Ironman just felt like some guy that decided to just try to do something in his own means, and I think that probably most had to do with emphasis on his own flaws and Marvel characters not typically working with the Police. I guess similarly to you, my image of the police also has been shaped in some of those media because I remember the Spiderman cartoons and how Spiderman is this hero character that seems obviously a hero character to the audience, gets constantly hounded and hunted by the police. (From the cartoons even to his video games) It really blurs the line of what is good or evil can be considered aspects of perspective. I felt like Spiderman would get me to root not that characters like the Lizard would go to jail, or finally get killed by the super hero like a Lex Luther or a Joker character, but more that he would eventually be cured or saved and rescued. It was a much different experience. I know watching the X-Men you got an angle that society hated them all, and the police were a part of that society, but you knew as a viewer the X-men were just, and the X-men's complicated relationship with the Brotherhood made it feel like having Magneto show up was not always the most dangerous thing in the world, that you could defeat him through debate instead, and even consider his arguments and perspective itself. I do think those aspects shaped my opinions on policing too. Still you know, where I am today, with the knowledge of the origin and history of the police, I do think we need some kind of police force, but the problems run deep and not just on the policing side. You know, we need full reform, retraining, and mass expulsion as well as regulation, including on what I might consider dangerous in the long run, regulations to police unions (because I know eventually whatever is proposed will be used to regulate all unions). There needs to be new departments formed, new ways crimes are handled, and new ways cops might need to be recruited and trained... but that's not the only place we need reform to have reform, we got to reform how we treat poverty and homelessness, we have to reform the courts, lobbying, layering, and how we give advantages to the wealthy. I mean, even basic income, universal healthcare, and some kind of guaranteed housing and food are part of this conversation to reform. That said, I still think we need some kind of policing system to exist because not every crime is due to economic struggles, and even more just the fact that we know billionaires break the law all the time, and will lie, cheat, and steal (to wither they are punished or not) proves that some people will just commit crimes if they can and might need to be stopped.... but that is not to say the amount of massive reform needed to where you could argue "police existing or not is almost merely semantics".
33:01 scared the crap out of me and blew out my headphones a bit - just wondering if maybe next time that audio can be balanced differently? It was a bit of a shock and I’m pretty jumpy if I’m honest Amazing essay as always (I had more to say in an earlier comment but just in case you only see this one I don’t want to sound negative)
Great vid! I agree that a complete systemic restructuring is what we need. But people know that will only happen through a massive upheaval. Almost every villain in contemporary storytelling is a symbolic representation of said upheaval. Regular folks aren't brave enough to risk that scale of change,however we feel about the end result or possible end result.
Juan Martinez : Hey, this is police brutality, bro! Danny Costanzo : No, no. This is just harassment. If this doesn't work, then we get brutal. ~ "Running Scared"
I didn't go see it. I have loved Batman since the 90s (Batman Returns is still my favorite Batman movie), but as I've gotten older, I've increasingly had questions. Criticisms. Which makes me grateful for videos like this.
I used to be a HUGE Batman fan until I moved out of my parents' house and experienced late stage capitalism first hand. I felt like The Batman movie was a more "honest" depiction in this regard but it definitely could have made policing and financial oppression a bigger theme, in my opinion.
I haven’t seen this yet and the only other piece of cop media that I recall directly calling out systems of oppression as the real culprits behind police militarisation and brutality are both English and both from the 90s. One is a fantasy book series (specifically Night Watch and Thud!) and the other is a police sitcom starring Rowan Atkinson. And I admit some of the humour either aged too well or not very well. But it used to be on TV as a kid, so. I’ve been living in the UK after moving from America and the way cops are treated and talked about, especially in fiction, is so so so different but I can’t articulate what makes an American cop so vastly different from an English cop. Probably it’s on me for not having much experience with cops in the UK. Although considering policing is an originally British thing... Anyways. Another great video. I may have to watch the film just for Catwoman and to see how they handled Gordon - I had no idea about the casting, holy crap.
As to the Homework assignment, I'd like to recommend the Series "Underbelly: the Golden Mile" it in part covers the 2nd wave of police reform that New South Wales underwent in the mid 90's. NSW was one of the first states to get police reforms in the late 70's, being first cab off the rank they where not as sweeping or fundamental as the states that followed so they got a followup in the mid 90's.
I remember being annoyed and commenting on the Dark Knights; "No more dead cops!" line, but hadn't realise how cop friendly the entirety of the Nolan trilogies are. As always enjoyed the video and found it informative, thank you
I'll give it to Bruce in the Batman, it would take more encounters than a few with Selena to convince him of his privilege in any other circumstance. most yt privileged men insist on staying in denial
Especially the way we are shown to view her- the camera and us and Bruce, stalk her and watch her change, hate her when we think she might be a sex worker, always see her as beneath batman, how could we really respect anything she is saying. Given her over sexualization and dehumanizayion on screen, how could we think she might be saying it about batman let alone just a man like batman
You know I learned recently that Jim Gordon is apparently based off of Teddy Roosevelt, who was also the Police Commissioner of the NYPD, and managed to root out a LOT of the corruption of the time under his leadership. Of course, those being older times, I am personally unsure of many of the details.
Nice, you do bring up lots of great points with this video. I'm sure the movie wasn't allowed to tackle the inherent issue with police because of the white neoliberal, and probably some conservative, producers and executives at Warner Bros who rely on police for their unfair power position and security.
I had some problems with the movie taken only as a film. Frankly, it should have been an hour shorter, including cutting almost the entire last hour. But it was as I sat and thought about it later in the day, I couldn't shake how it really hammers home an anti-urban mentality, and typically anti-urbanism is a combination of anti-intellectualism, anti-poor, and anti-minority in the United States. And that at the end of the movie, it seemed show the common people begging for the police to come in and save them (from the nature of urbanism?).
Brilliant work. Your comic knowledge is very helpful. We need to abolish cops asap. I thought the film was quite well made but the liberal politics so gross. I didn't give Selina's oppression the seriousness it deserves, which sucks, as I did a video on this same topic but felt her labelling the rich white ppl was very cringe in execution.
I beat a really hard level in Geometry Dash while watching this video, so thanks for that. Beyond that I don't have many thoughts, but the comments have been interesting.
Definitely one of your best videos. I love this movie when it came out and still do. Even after my first viewing, the scene in which the cops showed up to arrest Falcone didn't sit right with me. Ii think your point of having Selena being based cast as poor, biracial woman would have more bite if that film actually committed to that idea and Jim Gordon as well. Also, someone pointed out in the comments that Falcone actually being alive for the rest of the film could've been great if it were revealed in the end, that despite all their work, he still comes out scott-free. What I'm hoping is that the sequel set--up of Gotham being under martial law could explore more of the role GCPD as an institution could play in contrast to Bruce's realization that being Bruce Wayne is just as important to his goal, not just being Batman 24/7. But, I'm not holding out of hope if it actually explored that. I'm skeptical, but slightly hopeful.
So, did you get my message about coproganda coming out of the rest of WB/DC media, in particular TITANS? I found their assumption that cops are by definition good guys in that show to be unnervingly tone def and disgusting, especially given that Batman, Nightwing, and that presence is so prominent and that we know that Batman was inspired by Zorro who we all know was diametrically opposed to systems of oppression and the occupying force his world. While I admit, I didn't see the coproganda as overt in The Batman as in other things-- I loved the film, that may have blinded me partially-- I did see that it still had problematic bits. I appreciate and thank you for your take on the film, one Batman fan to another. Hopefully they fix some of this moving forward and don't fall into Disney+ falcon and the winter soldier problems of "this leftist is the villain" uh, the audience agrees with the villain, sir. "We'll have them blow up a housing project just to remind everyone they are the bad guys."
The Marvel problem is that they are trying to do Magneto without doing Magneto, so instead of being able to rely on Magnetos supremacist tendencies (as a sort of caricature of Malcolm X's early beliefs), they have to rely on other methods to show how direct violent change is a Bad Thing because it inevitably leads to kicking puppies and shooting orphans.
Love seeing superheroes save people but wish copaganda wasn't so damn pervasive in this genre (can take several examples, but I find MHA so bad in this regard). I liked the ending of the batman, seeing batman become a symbol of hope rather than vengeance, but I really hope it doesn't up like the Nolan trilogy.
The Question I always had is it possible to make a crime fighting character as a main hero who isn't a scumbag and have it NOT be copaganda. Not saying this in judgemental way, but asking does the genera just leads to that. Even if it an anti hero crime fighter, you still going to identify them with them at points due to be a main character. Even if a character fighting against crooked cops that still leads to a NOT ALL cops. Even if they only fight coparate corruption..that still a heroic cops. And it could be argued that a fantasy because law enforcement tends not to go after those guys as hard as they do low level people in real life. Even if there not cops but superheros...they still kind of cops. maybe that why marvel movies you dont have a lot of street level crime fighting, or gangs fighting. But then again those could be viewed as millitary propaganda. Or the villian some guy who speak against that stuff but then goes full nuts where you can ignore what their saying
@@yulee3266 my Question was basicly what is copaganda and is there anyway to make a cop shows (where a somewhat decent cop the main character that ins't copagada). because some people over do the concern of copaganda. Like saying Brookylne 99 should of change the jobs in the last season
#JustOppressionThings 💖
Because fuck you that's why.
Damn. Just chillin put here and I hear some fire like that.
- - - - - -
"Why are you bullying me I'm right"
This is funny and so true to life
I giggled when you said this on the video.
The power source is not white supremacy, that is the facade. It paints a face on the invisible enemy, a decoy or shield. The power source is the concept of property. I know this might be a little deeper than most of us are willing to dig just yet and will likely appear to mean nothing as yet, but please do keep it in mind. It will become very important later.
Joe Biden
This is just my opinion but i think the reading on the "not all cops scene" has been misread by a lot of people. That scene is directly juxtaposed to the death of Falcone by both batman and the cops handing the kill to Riddler. I think it shows how incompetent Batman and the GCPD are and I think the whole film revolves around how incompetent they are. Batman messes up the hero moment when he fleas the police station, they completely mess up the hint El Rata Alada and Batman even thinks Riddler knows his identity. I think that the reason the corruption arc ended so quickly is because that's more how it like in real life with cops patting themselves on the back and walking away with nothing changed after catching the "one" bad apple. The corruption in Gotham hasn't changed, the only thing that's going to be different is that Falcone is dead and Bruce changed on the inside but there's now gonna be a power vacuum in Gotham's underworld.
ehhh, like the one thing Riddler has other than loving puzzles is being smarter than Batsy, like, in all of his good iterations.
This would be excellent to visit/address in a sequel. Especially as batman struggles to reconstruct himself as a symbol of hope for Gotham. Can do a whole thing where he realizes he's not fit for the job and motivates him to find a successor to deliver that hope (robin)
Also I feel like people forget that the “not all cops” line was not in reference to them being bad. It’s that not all of them are on falcone’s payroll. That doesn’t mean all those cops there to arrest falcone were good, they just weren’t on his payroll. Plus the movie makes it pretty clear that Batman only trusts Gordon as a good person out of the gcpd, and maybe Martinez by the end?
i'd agree, if not for the movie's final message to be "trust the institutions". so no. i don't think this movie ultimately depicts the police as a failing part of the institution, but again effectively reinforces the few bad apples copaganda as acceptable.
I found the Thomas Wayne story an interesting touch. The philanthropist billionaire politician was corrupt like everyone else involved, and his initiatives amounted to nothing. Maybe he wasn't as evil, maybe he had better ideals, but he was part of it. The movie leans in in a couple places, like it did with Selina Kyle, but it pulls back. Hopefully in future movies they commit more strongly.
Yeah, his father ordering the silencing of a reporter isn't a bad thing just because he didn't intend to have him killed, he just wanted him silenced. That plot point almost took me out of the movie because his father was just as culpable as everyone else, but it felt like he got "redeemed" by the movie because he meant well. He meant so well, his actions led to a reporter getting killed by his command to protect his family's image.
I'm hoping that they were only hesitant on going all in with it because they want to leave a thread for the sequel, and maybe the threequel, too.
@@Jane-oz7pp Well think they did it put the air of mystery about his death. Think who killed Thomas Wayner is like The Joker's origin..something that should be kept vauge. Also making Thomas Wayner super evil kind of to easy. It make people in power go "Hey aint doing all of THAT..so off the hook". If he was some mad man strangling hookers while he jerks off with 100 dollar bills it be easy to wash him away as anomaly
@Douglas Phillips The Telltale Batman series actually has this exact same plot point, but actually makes it integral to the story instead of wasting the opportunity.
I've never really been a fan of the "dark secrets of the Waynes" concept, mainly because I feel some of Bruce's morals need to come from his parents. However, I really like The Batman's approach to the idea.
Thomas Wayne was still a good person, but that goodness led him to save Falcone's life. That association led him to compromise his morals in a moment of desperation, but he still never intended for the reporter to die, and by coincidence or "coincidence", he died before he could atone. Not to mention that his biggest effort to change things in Gotham got cannibalised after his death.
Honestly the weirdest thing about this movie is that it is really good at describing the problems it deals with, it seems to completely step over the obvious solution. The last scene still feels weird, because this whole time they've described capitalism and liberalism as inherently corrupt and incapable of reform, and instead of offering hope in changing any of that they just... vaguely gesture at faith in institutions. The problems in Gotham (and late stage liberal capitalism) isn't our faith in the hierarchy, it's the hierarchy itself. The corruption is the point, you don't make it better by just getting a good person as mayor, or as commissioner. It's weird and has such big Democratic Party energy.
Gotham and honestly ALL the super power cities have the same problem. Look at how many times Lex did something REALLY bad and he's back at work the next day all because he pays for what he and superman destroys. That city is basically their playground since people shit on Batman for not killing the Joker. Most heroes don't kill their rogues and for good reason because you'll have to END these stories and they don't want to do that. Yet when you have somebody like the Punisher killing the bad guys people then flip flop an claim he's bad too. So I don't know what people want if they're upset at the cop, the villain, the super hero, the anti hero.and then the overarching system of living we're all in. It makes it seem like people are upset with no solutions which leaves no hope at all.
They didn't even imply the new Mayor would making things sunshine and daisies
@@ExeErdna Well think there only upset with the Joker thing is it happen so often. and writer always want to give Joker this insane body count. But see that as less of a batman fault..the city not able to keep this guy in Jail. When in reality some cop would of shot him why in custody and claim he was going for a acid shooting flower or something
@@jonsmith9838 Then the only reason why Joker pops up is because all the other villains simply moved on or became good. That's how and why we have different shade of "Batman" for villains and the Joker now. That's kinda it. They're making what they're complaining about.
@@ExeErdna People only PRETEND to hate Punisher, because it's the social fashion to pretend that all lives are sacred. In reality, almost everyone is relieved that somebody is stepping up to take these criminals out.
And since Frank is just one man with no actual authority, he's less of a threat than a renegade cop, because he can't arrest you, frame you, etc, only kill you. He's also known to focus only on the blatantly guilty, and is inherently self-limiting because of only being one mortal man with an absurdly dangerous hobby. An excellent (if short-term) solution.
The people who genuinely hate him are other heroes -- Spidey, Daredevil, etc -- who see their own dark side reflected in Frank and maintain the "no kill" because they need to tell themselves they're more than just disturbed people acting out violently.
Yeah the times this movie ventured into copaganda are the times I liked it the least. I groaned during the "we don't all work for you!" moment when Gordon arrests Falcone. There were two things that saved the movie for me. First the fact that it wasnt as bad as The Dark Knight Rises. Second, the fact that the film made it a priority to critique retributive justice. I see too many people online who want Batman to just be the punisher, and don't understand how horrifying, juvenile and dangerous that would be. Hell there are a ton of COPS who want to be the punisher. It frightens me that the the people who want Batman to kill don't realize that "rich white man killing anyone he thinks deserves it" is a pretty good description of a klansman. And it gets even worse when you consider how historically what is considered "crime" in the United States is connected to race.
Damn those last ideas didn't even enter my mind
And that kinda scares me
How you described punished Batman is the reason I wonder about the people who want to abolish the police. The idea would be letting people police themselves but that assumes normal people are any better than cops when it comes to letting any sort of bias and power fantasies play out.
Congrats, now we don’t have cops, just a ton of vigilantes with guns shooting pretty much whoever they see.
I enjoyed this take on the film and always enjoy your perspective on things!
I enjoyed The Batman, solid 7-8 out of 10, but I really wish they fully committed to the idea of The Wayne family having ties to the corrupt aspects of Gotham, with Bruce not only fighting the bad apple cops, but also the dirty legacy of Thomas Wayne. Similar to what the Tell Tale Batman games did so well.
I agree, in just about every other adaptation the Wayne's are portrayed as super goodie two shoe philanthropists that could do no wrong, they're way too innocent for the type of setting Gotham is. Sure, that might be the point, but when you start bringing up ties to the mob it just gets silly. That scene where Alfred explained Thomas Wayne was horrified that Falcone killed that reporter is so eyeroll-inducing. Seriously, what else would any grown ass adult, let alone someone that grew up in Gotham of all places, expect from the mafia?
@@nagger8216 That's also sort of the point of them as goody two shoes though. Gotham chews people like that for lunch. And I say that as someone who thought the Telltale games did an excellent job with the "corrupt parents" angle.
🔥🔥🔥 that line that the American settlers were not "Pilgrims, but colonizers"🔥🔥🔥
I saw The Batman a few weeks ago with my friend, and really enjoyed it! It's not the best of the best as far as DC projects go (I'll leave that to the animated films and shows) but I really enjoyed how gothic they made the city look to be the perfect environment for Bats, and how Pattinson played Bruce as this undersocialized teenager. I loved Jeffrey Wright's portrayal of Jim Gordon and having him be the lone "good cop" for much of the movie showed how believably futile his actions were in the department. Yes, he was doing good, but how far can his actions go if he has to fight alone to do the right thing? He has to prove that cops can do good, honest work in the city not just for the Gothamites, but for himself - a black man who has seen injustices carried out by the arrogant and neglectful cops employed beneath him. He has to prove to himself that he can make a difference in the force that won't be swept away or undermined.
Well to be fair Gordon being the only "good cop" dates back to the 80's as even then there were questions about the police force.
Would like to point out that it isn’t just Falcone that was part of this. It was also the former mayor, the DA, and the police chief that were also part of this conspiracy. It’s just that the Riddler killed all of them before Batman and Gordon could actually uncover the conspiracy and arrest them. Not just the one bad man as you put it.
Definitely would love to see the Cort of Owls as the antagonists for the third movie as I’m a big fan of them as antagonists.
Made a few good points though. Especially about politics and the politics behind that.
Gordon and Batman talk a lot about bad cops but the story still insists that there are good ones. the storyline is too afraid to take a stance and just hangs in the middle
@@itsfreerealestate15 It takes barely a step off the mainstream narrative of "There's some bad apples, but we're working on it! (read: Not really working on it)" to "both-sides" it.
It's still leagues better than the Bale trilogy... I rewatched that pretty recently, and was shocked at how pro-cop it is.
Oh, though during Bats' escape from the police station, the fact the cops chase him and then magdump right there, with plenty of innocents and other cops in line of fire, was hilarious to me. I feel like somebody HAD to be going "Yeah, we know what it's really like, we just can't say it..." with that one.
@@itsfreerealestate15 well not really. The story is completely about corruption and the police is a big part of that. The movie only really presents two good cops, Gordon and officer Martinez. Sure batman didn't arrest every cop, and a lot of them were their for the arrest of Falcone, however your idea of them being ''good'' cops is based on the fact of them being there for the arrest of a bad guy. But that doesn't confirm them to be good or bad. It's implied heavily that there is still deep corruption everywhere. I mean like yeah there are good cops in gotham pd, because there's always gonna be at least a few good ones, it insists that there is more corruption. It doesn't hang in the middle at all. It is completely about power and corruption.
This
It's very clear in the context of the film that the entire system is fucked and that's why electing the new mayor and Bruce having to readjust as a symbol of hope (as Bruce and Batman) is so vital to the film.
@@thatoneguy-jk6ts
The film is definitely about corruption and I don't think it's a coincidence considering the role Bruce plays (as the billionaire and Batman) is challenged directly by both the mayoral candidate and the Riddler. It's questioning his own role within the already corrupt framework that is Gotham City and fits well with the reveals about the D.A, Mayor and Commissioner
Hell with the allusions to greater corruption in Gotham and the rumours about Court of Owls this is likely going to be a recurring theme in this trilogy. I don't mind La'ron but I think he's a bit off the mark here
I loved this movie but they really should have just had Gordon be the only good cop. The corruption within the cops should have been explored more. They were nearly there but just didn't commit
Just cut down the number in the "good cops" scene by 1/2 to 3/4. The movie still needed a decent amount for the flood scene, unless they were just gonna have hired security fill the roll. There's a way to make a single good cop work, but I wouldn't expect DC to go all in on ACAB, especially considering which party they support the most.
Honestly I completely agree. I think that was my main problem with the film.bit had the themes right there but needed to bite just a lil harder. If they got rid of the joker scene they could use that time to have a scene that really demonstrates the themes more
Yea, about half the amount could have worked, because it's reasonable to assume that some young cops are there because they genuinely think it's the right thing to do and haven't been taken in yet. Newbies, mostly, could have at least played it off as a reform story.
@@questioningespecialy9107 Which is kind of disappointing tbh, because Batman's arc at by end of the movie, beating the shit out of that guy and learning he has to be an *actual* hero that protects and saves people, and can't just beat the shit out of bad guys, would've been an interesting commentary on real police brutality
@@alexman378 "If they “regularly” abused their power, you’d be seeing a whole lot more deaths" You do, over a thousand people were killed in just the last year alone from police related shootings. I tried linking my sources for that but RUclips doesn't like links in comments anymore and kept deleting it, so unfortunately all I can say is 'Goggle it' but trust me, I didn't have to dig deep to find at least three different sources all saying the same thing after just Googling "US police brutality statistics", namely the Washington Post, Mapping Police Violence, and Statista. And it's been at least a thousand for the past five years, it's not everyone else's fault you're too stupid and stubborn to see the truth, just because it's not on the evening news every night doesn't mean it's not happening.
"Because I see them more than willing to accept that good criminals exist, but as soon as you tell them there are good cops, oof, all hell breaks loose. Case in point." lol Nevermind this terrible strawman, I'll bite. Yes, generally people want to see the good in people than assume the worst because that's better than the ugly, harsh reality. And when they're proven wrong about the people they put their faith in it ironically leads to fostering these feelings of resentment and distrust, case and point: cops. Cops are not normal citizens, they are not your equal, they are legally above you. There is an obvious power dynamic going on every time you interact with one and the possibility always exists they will take full advantage of that and you *will be* powerless to defend yourself, one way or the other. Body cams exist for a reason bro.
On the topic of Selina and Annika: Can we just take a moment to appreciate bisexual Cat Woman? There's no way that her calling her "baby" when they lived together wasn't meant to indicate they were an item. Disappointing that she only referred to her as her friend to Batman and Jim, though.
I don't know about that, I mean I think she could well be bisexual but If they were an item I would think that she would have been a lot more distraught and specifically said she was her girlfriend. I honestly think they're intended just to be friends. She calls Batman baby too.
I think that’s reaching tbh
That's pretty shite representation tbh
Like you'd think if someone killed your girlfriend you'd specifically say that and not just "my friend"
@@user-gh5sd2nm5y She like, literally goes on a murderous rampage dude
@@ItsButterBean1020 Chinese market 🤷🏼♀️ gotta make money and you know it won't be allowed in China with explicitly gay characters in leading roles.
I really enjoyed the piece, but I don't know if I line up with the conclusion, because like others have already stated I don't think this movie is trying to say he's stopped corruption in the city. He just learned how complacent he's been even as batman. Gotham is worse off then ever at the very end, but batman is better then he started.
But more important then that is I don't think killing people is right. Catwoman killing Falcone was NOT the right thing to do. That would make Riddler the hero of the story. Power needs to be removed from them and maybe in the real world it would take a bloodbath and several violent actors willing to lose pieces of themselves, but in these escapist fantasy stories batman and superman are suppose to be able to find ways to not do this with their great power.
The Brennan quote at 15:47 killed me. Good video.
I want the next film in The Batman series to feature a return of cop corruption, as Gordon and Wayne realize that the corruption is endemic to the institution.
I know that won't happen, but I'd love to see it.
I feel like realistically, the corruption within Gotham pd would get worse since Falcones gone and the corrupted would latch onto Cobblepot next(I think something similar went on in the Gotham show)
Not sure how alone I am in this opinion but the framing of Bruce and Selena's relationship felt weird to me. Yes, he has literally no friends or love life to speak of, but the shots of him in opposition to Selena felt oversexualized and unnecessary to me. Like, her girlfriend just died and she's still framed as this pseudo-romantic/sexual character next to him, and someone he has to keep an eye on to keep in line and someone he can fawn over in the shadows like a "damned love" story.
In almost every scene of them, she takes off her mask and is vulnerable and he NEVEr reciprocates
She is so unrealistic just his pixie dream girl that he creepily stalks and she likes it!?!?!
Giving Selina in the new film any kind of political label feels like a bit of a reach. She doesn't seem like any kind of activist or ideologue. She's just out for herself and trying to survive.
Can’t get views if you aren’t reeeeeeaching for something that isn’t there
@@jordanjacksonshouseofhorrors I actually think most of Readus's analysis is good here. That one bit just stood out to me. But at the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their own interpretation.
Exactly.
The Dimension 20 sound bite snuck up on me, I'm so glad I found your channel.
"What's that? You want to know why I called the American colonizers instead of pilgrims? Because fuck you, that's why." Got a hearty chuckle out of me.
I loved the batman movie! However the moment that stood out to me so much was how Selena pointed out that if Falcone was arrested that nothing would happen because he controlled the courts, which Falcone also reiterated and then - he is killed. I honestly think they wrote themselves into a corner- if he survived then it would have either have to commit to an extreme pro cop narrative or acknowledge that nothing was really going to happen and the whole system had to be taken down. So he's shot. I definitely think the shot when its said "Not all of us" was pretty copaganda but I guess I just wonder what batman would have done if Falcone wasn't killed.
This is honestly the most valid critique. murdering Falcone isn't a solution to the problem for any one other then the writer.
Yelling at an 8 year old for asking an earnest question (especially in school!) is such a crappy thing for a teacher to do
loved the movie, but I did roll my eyes real hard when they arrested falcone and the door opens to a crowd of "good" cops who apparently were still good eggs after they've established that the entire system's been rotten from the inside.
keep in mind that a lots of those cops sometimes are just afraid to speak.
A great video as always, once again you’ve shown a whole different perspective to me and now I will view the Nolan movies in a whole new light. What I love about about the Batman comics is that (for the most part) it doesn’t glorify cops. Even with Batman and his wards taking up residence there GCPD is still known as an Institution where corruption, graft, violence, and racism is the rule, not the exception. I hear people all the time say, “why doesn’t Batman give money to the police force” because he knows he can’t, because they’d do god knows what with it. Why do they Supervillains at Arkham keep getting out so easily? Cause 9 times out of 10 the cops who are escorting them there are being bribed to let them out or turn a blind eye. Even Jim Gordon the “ideal cop” who sits in the highest spot in the police landscape can’t fix anything. He’s essentially powerless. Out of the entire city, there are only shown to be about 3 “good cops” Jim Gordon, (powerless), Renee Montoya, (Forced out for being gay), and Harvey Bullock, (shown to be an honest cop but a piece of shit human being). In Gotham it’s not a few bad apples, in Gotham they are all bad apples, and a few good ones won’t change anything.
I remember Gotham Central comic books being worse about this, despite being an otherwise well written series. The Gotham Special Crimes unit is all "good cops", and all the beat cops (and a few of the forensics guys) are all bad cops. IA is ofc framed as well intentioned but misguided.
The first time I watched it, I was overwhelmed with happiness at seeing an actual detective movie starring Batman. The third time I watched it, I was being a bit more critical, and realized that when Falcone gets arrested, Gordon basically pulls a “not all cops” answer to the movie’s criticism of police corruption. Not ideal. Still love the movie, my favorite Batman movie alongside the 60s Batman & The Dark Knight!
Is the mere suggestion that not all cops are inherently evil really that fucking unpalatable?
The movie can show 'good' criminals and 'good' politicians but good cops? That's just too far, apparently.
@@MNGN101 for me, the issue isn't that the movie can't depict good cops, hell James Gordon in nearly every depiction of the character is what I hope an officer strives for. It's just that removing one bad cop makes it feel like "kumbya, the legal system is saved and there is no corruption in the system anymore". The final speech with the new mayor should have been reworded that instead of we need to "put trust in our systems" is that the "system needs to regain the people's trust". You can depict the necessity of law enforcement and criticize when the system let's it's people down or over steps it's boundaries. But I agree, you can have good and bad cops in the film, just like how it is in real life.
@@Kitchwamon Is that what she says? The quote was "we must rebuild people's faith," was it not? That's essentially what you're suggesting. I don't understand how anyone can watch the movie and interpret it as "kumbya, the legal system is saved and there is no corruption in the system anymore." Batman literally says "things are going to get worse before they get better." That, along with Bella Real's speech is basically saying "there is still work to be done."
There wasn't really any subtlety to it, yet people are taking any notion of hopefulness presented in the film and interpreting it as some hyper-optimistic world view for whatever reason. Just because the cops didn't remain faithful to Falcone doesn't necessarily mean there are no longer corrupt cops.
@@MNGN101 you know what you're right. I was going off memory with the quote
@@MNGN101 Actually in that lense it makes the film less copaganda than i was first to percieve.. my bad dude
I am a hobby writer, even that my work is very popular in the internet, I didn't find a editorial yet, for the last two years I have a goal to create my own superhero, I think that now I finally success it, even that I had the setting, the characters and all that, I needed to answer, how to fix systemic problems when the society is corrupted to the core, my answer is, destroy the corrupt foundations and begin from scratch, that why my hero first rodeo is not by capturing a mobster or a super criminal, but attacking the corrupt police taxi services, and calling the media, creating an scandal that make Internal Affairs not other choice than arrest corrupt police officers, that could reach to the Police Commissioner.
People in England: "What!? The British want to have a standing army? Like one that can be turned against its citizens? We gotta revolt and get out of here!"
People in America Like Two Years Later: "Oh snap! People are revolting! We gotta get a standing army going!!"
Three cheers for Bud Cubby's speach!
Have been dragging my feet in watching this movie. Hearing about how Selina is written is making be want to watch it more now.
Wanna make some bacon?
I feel like the Mad Max films address policing in an interesting way. People fight,smoke and struggle whether there's police or not. That's the most dark truth take I've seen. The police aren't a solving factor in "terminal crazy". In fact,Max's deepest fear is that being police will drive him terminal crazy.
Perhaps this could be corrected by showing Batman frequently busting brutal cops in traffic stops, drug busts and protest marches? Show most uniformed officers just writing speeding tickets! Make Gordon more like Serpico, only he worked his way up to management by routine civil service tests, rather than "battlefield promotions" for being a "super-cop." I like his shell-shocked version in "Harley Quinn" cartoons, lol! Also, show Commissioner Gordon stumped by unsolved supervillain crimes, due to paranormal "X-Files" type crime scene evidence. Show Batman's villains outfighting SWAT teams, riot squads and National Guard troops single-handed, like the Terminator. Return their comic book technology and just make it more lethal. Both would show the limits of police against supervillains. Also show many unsolved cases, similar to D.B. Cooper or Jimmy Hoffa's disappearances, serial killings like Jack the Ripper's or the Zodiak Killers. Since the Riddler is based on the latter, perhaps his crimes were unsolved before Batman showed up. Show Batman using more advanced forensics and tactical technology than the police have.
In fifth grade police came to my school and explained what they did, and I asked what happens if they abused their siren to avoid red lights, or to get to a bakery to make sure they got the pie they wanted for lunch. I do not remember the answer, but I don't think I got in trouble for it
Yeah I came out of this movie being like “well the politics of this movie are INTERESTING”. It’s kinda funny tho cuz I know of like conservatives who came out of it like “iT wAs ToO wOkE”
It's definitely interesting. Definitely not interesting to come out stay is too woke. In my opinion, this movie definitely has stereotypical centrist approach to it's politics.
Too woke bc Gordon and Selina are black obviously
I saw the thumbnail and knew it was going to be pure fire
I hope the batman get a good trilogy if not at least a decant sequel without the joker in it there tons of other villian more fit for the tone of the batman movie like hush or the Court of awls
yes! my sentiments exactly!
I want clayface, man-bat, or solomon grundy. Gimme the freaks dammit. Or, a villain that would really shine in this slow burn grounded formula, calender man or hush.
Ohhh boy I been waiting for somebody to talk about this
Noice! Didn't plan on watching this film, but now really want to, loved the breakdown especially the look at varying depictions over time.
'Pilgrims' seemed treasonous since I was like five.
On that Falcone arrest scene it did seem like they wanted everyone in the audience to clap, but no one did.
I'm really excited to hear your take on this
A Law Abiding Citizen. I would love to see your take on that.
That was such a good movie
Had no idea you were from Detroit! Appreciate the content even more!! East or Westside?
Westside! Grew up around Plymouth and Burt Road near the Redford border!
@@Readus101 Eastside myself! Curious if you've thought about doing an essay or video on Iron Man, especially 2000s Era, pre RDJ Iron Man. Cause some of the stuff boy was doing and how awful he was could be right up your alley!
And Suddenly, I hear Brennan Lee Mulligan's voice ^^
Not a film or TV series, but a Webtoon called UnOrdinary is pretty good at displaying the corruption of the authorities under a super-powered lens. It doesn't cover the racism side, but the oppression of those born with less power and the fundamental flaws that are built into the system. It's not a perfect representation, but it's pretty damn good.
I think batman movies would work better if they would actually show police corruption like gordon litterally sees batman as a weapon outside of the law bc he doesnt trust his own force and i wish that dynamic and understanding was shown more, gotham pd is the worst gordon is the ONLY good cop save a few close friends of his he doesnt trust his own force and that needs to be highlighted to some degree
There is NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD COP IN A CORRUPT SYSTEM
ive been saying this about heros in general for a while, thank you for this!
25:52 I gotta say, I always think of feminism as a strive for equality for all. The focus is on the gender hierarchies, and the nemesis is patriarchy/chauvinism, but it doesn't work if you're focusing mainly on white women. At least how I was raised in it, the whole point is equality for all. It's definitely not intended to include bias/something worse in the remedy.
I suppose you say that about a second later, but it sounds crazy to me, to have feminism and elitism as a wide-spread concept.
Your exclamation of "THIRD FILM" startled me. Lol
What a rad video!
you have opened my eyes!
i had no idea the history of cops.
would love a video explaining what we could do if we removed cops, we need some crime fighting right?
I love how you put the emphasis on the Court being in the third film
Perfect poignant pause on the "Because fuck you thats why"
Although I do hope that these large blockbuster movies take these issues seriously, they're not going to. At the end of the day, they need to still satisfy everyone, including those that are up in arms at the fact that they have a black Selena Kyle or black Jim Gordon. They're still going to go promote old problematic ideologies while virtue signaling.
Love the idea of using Selina to address this issue! I was thinking it was just hard to fully avoid the copaganada angle with Batman.
This is definitely my favorite use of the Batman character. I'm a little worried about the Joker given Reeves background for him though
I think u watch the wrong movie
Subscribed. So glad to see this, because it mirrors my assessment of the movie, which I thought was a great piece of entertainment. The first 2/3 of the movie was set up to show the police force as occupying its true role of enforcers of the ruling class, but the last 1/3 "saved" the police for the liberal conception of police forces as protectors of the public good that have been corrupted. You make a great point about the removal of Falcone, The Batman immediately switches tone, moving from systemic issues to claiming that the problem with police isn't inherent to the system, but the actions of a small number of bad actors. Two movies with police as the primary focus that show police closer to how they actually are: Cop Land and The Glass Shield. An even better movie in this regard is the recent Sorry to Bother You.
Can't wait to see your video about Jeffrey Wright as Commissioner Gordon!
I just got a Superman show ad that looks pretty cool
I think you have an interesting take in that you thought Superheroes replace police, rather than reinforce the same system, or even problematic aspects of the police system. I loved the Superman Animated Series when I was growing up, but a difference I had noticed from batman (as a kid) was that Superman tends to just show up and solve the problem as he sees it to be solved. He didn't really stop to ask questions or look to why a crime was happening or even verify if the people he was rescuing were even truthful or heroic. It kind of felt like Superman just enforced the law as he wanted and chose to like an authoritarian would, where as with Batman I felt like he would do more detective work, not just stop the crime but figure out what was causing it and even change his perspective on who is the victim.
You know, growing up even more I found Batman also problematic and unaccountable as well in a way that someone like Ironman did not. (In what ways Marvel comic characters really felt like they did not to me) In that Batman isn't just some Billionaire, he's some human god that also is using his powers to pick and choose how to enforce the law, with debates on if he can ever fix Gotham as he is said to, where Ironman just felt like some guy that decided to just try to do something in his own means, and I think that probably most had to do with emphasis on his own flaws and Marvel characters not typically working with the Police.
I guess similarly to you, my image of the police also has been shaped in some of those media because I remember the Spiderman cartoons and how Spiderman is this hero character that seems obviously a hero character to the audience, gets constantly hounded and hunted by the police. (From the cartoons even to his video games) It really blurs the line of what is good or evil can be considered aspects of perspective. I felt like Spiderman would get me to root not that characters like the Lizard would go to jail, or finally get killed by the super hero like a Lex Luther or a Joker character, but more that he would eventually be cured or saved and rescued. It was a much different experience. I know watching the X-Men you got an angle that society hated them all, and the police were a part of that society, but you knew as a viewer the X-men were just, and the X-men's complicated relationship with the Brotherhood made it feel like having Magneto show up was not always the most dangerous thing in the world, that you could defeat him through debate instead, and even consider his arguments and perspective itself. I do think those aspects shaped my opinions on policing too.
Still you know, where I am today, with the knowledge of the origin and history of the police, I do think we need some kind of police force, but the problems run deep and not just on the policing side. You know, we need full reform, retraining, and mass expulsion as well as regulation, including on what I might consider dangerous in the long run, regulations to police unions (because I know eventually whatever is proposed will be used to regulate all unions). There needs to be new departments formed, new ways crimes are handled, and new ways cops might need to be recruited and trained... but that's not the only place we need reform to have reform, we got to reform how we treat poverty and homelessness, we have to reform the courts, lobbying, layering, and how we give advantages to the wealthy. I mean, even basic income, universal healthcare, and some kind of guaranteed housing and food are part of this conversation to reform. That said, I still think we need some kind of policing system to exist because not every crime is due to economic struggles, and even more just the fact that we know billionaires break the law all the time, and will lie, cheat, and steal (to wither they are punished or not) proves that some people will just commit crimes if they can and might need to be stopped.... but that is not to say the amount of massive reform needed to where you could argue "police existing or not is almost merely semantics".
33:01 scared the crap out of me and blew out my headphones a bit - just wondering if maybe next time that audio can be balanced differently? It was a bit of a shock and I’m pretty jumpy if I’m honest
Amazing essay as always (I had more to say in an earlier comment but just in case you only see this one I don’t want to sound negative)
Great vid! I agree that a complete systemic restructuring is what we need. But people know that will only happen through a massive upheaval. Almost every villain in contemporary storytelling is a symbolic representation of said upheaval. Regular folks aren't brave enough to risk that scale of change,however we feel about the end result or possible end result.
I have a feeling that the Riddler is the first outing for Thomas Wayne Jr. in cinematic form
Juan Martinez : Hey, this is police brutality, bro!
Danny Costanzo : No, no. This is just harassment. If this doesn't work, then we get brutal.
~ "Running Scared"
I never thought I'd hear my favorite anarcho-socialist halfling in a video about Batman copaganda, but here we are, and I am very happy.
One of the best essays you've done. And you've been doing some solid work lately.
That was Mr Cubby! The Anarcho socialist hafling Dad!
He’ll pay for your ice cream and help you break out of jail 🍦
I didn't go see it. I have loved Batman since the 90s (Batman Returns is still my favorite Batman movie), but as I've gotten older, I've increasingly had questions. Criticisms. Which makes me grateful for videos like this.
I used to be a HUGE Batman fan until I moved out of my parents' house and experienced late stage capitalism first hand. I felt like The Batman movie was a more "honest" depiction in this regard but it definitely could have made policing and financial oppression a bigger theme, in my opinion.
I haven’t seen this yet and the only other piece of cop media that I recall directly calling out systems of oppression as the real culprits behind police militarisation and brutality are both English and both from the 90s. One is a fantasy book series (specifically Night Watch and Thud!) and the other is a police sitcom starring Rowan Atkinson. And I admit some of the humour either aged too well or not very well. But it used to be on TV as a kid, so.
I’ve been living in the UK after moving from America and the way cops are treated and talked about, especially in fiction, is so so so different but I can’t articulate what makes an American cop so vastly different from an English cop. Probably it’s on me for not having much experience with cops in the UK. Although considering policing is an originally British thing...
Anyways. Another great video. I may have to watch the film just for Catwoman and to see how they handled Gordon - I had no idea about the casting, holy crap.
As to the Homework assignment, I'd like to recommend the Series "Underbelly: the Golden Mile" it in part covers the 2nd wave of police reform that New South Wales underwent in the mid 90's.
NSW was one of the first states to get police reforms in the late 70's, being first cab off the rank they where not as sweeping or fundamental as the states that followed so they got a followup in the mid 90's.
You've just earned yourself a new subscriber, siiiirrr
Just stumbled upon your channel, great video! Glad that RUclips recommendations for a change suggested me something useful.
I remember being annoyed and commenting on the Dark Knights; "No more dead cops!" line, but hadn't realise how cop friendly the entirety of the Nolan trilogies are. As always enjoyed the video and found it informative, thank you
I'll give it to Bruce in the Batman, it would take more encounters than a few with Selena to convince him of his privilege in any other circumstance. most yt privileged men insist on staying in denial
Especially the way we are shown to view her- the camera and us and Bruce, stalk her and watch her change, hate her when we think she might be a sex worker, always see her as beneath batman, how could we really respect anything she is saying. Given her over sexualization and dehumanizayion on screen, how could we think she might be saying it about batman let alone just a man like batman
once again a great analysis! ( i remember walking out of the theater and thinking 'what would La'Ron say?'. been waiting for this months now 💙)
Serpico (1973) is a movie that looks at how the police can't be fixed. It's the least copaganda cop movie I can think of.
The Batman felt like a live-action version Capuzzi's Batman cartoon which was great
I SCREAMED AT THE FANTASY HIGH AUDIO AT 15:50 OMG
Before watching the video, I wanna say that The Batman felt like the best and only reason to make a feature film noir
As John Oliver would say there is A LOT to unpack here.
You know I learned recently that Jim Gordon is apparently based off of Teddy Roosevelt, who was also the Police Commissioner of the NYPD, and managed to root out a LOT of the corruption of the time under his leadership. Of course, those being older times, I am personally unsure of many of the details.
Got a like for the Something in the Way joke at the end. Though great vid overall.
I loved the Catwoman in The Batman, most of all. It felt very fresh!
Love 'The Wiz' reference!
Nice, you do bring up lots of great points with this video. I'm sure the movie wasn't allowed to tackle the inherent issue with police because of the white neoliberal, and probably some conservative, producers and executives at Warner Bros who rely on police for their unfair power position and security.
No they just didn’t tackle it because they wanted to focus on the story
I mean hopefully one of the sequels has the Court of Owls and Mr. Freeze to perhaps dial it down on that Copaganda...
I'm glad I wasn't the only one to see the resemblance to NS
Dude ,thank you for this.
I had some problems with the movie taken only as a film. Frankly, it should have been an hour shorter, including cutting almost the entire last hour.
But it was as I sat and thought about it later in the day, I couldn't shake how it really hammers home an anti-urban mentality, and typically anti-urbanism is a combination of anti-intellectualism, anti-poor, and anti-minority in the United States. And that at the end of the movie, it seemed show the common people begging for the police to come in and save them (from the nature of urbanism?).
This is fucking great La’Ron. Glad you of all people have addressed this. Kudos.
Brilliant work. Your comic knowledge is very helpful. We need to abolish cops asap.
I thought the film was quite well made but the liberal politics so gross.
I didn't give Selina's oppression the seriousness it deserves, which sucks, as I did a video on this same topic but felt her labelling the rich white ppl was very cringe in execution.
Wonderful analysis!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I beat a really hard level in Geometry Dash while watching this video, so thanks for that. Beyond that I don't have many thoughts, but the comments have been interesting.
Definitely one of your best videos. I love this movie when it came out and still do. Even after my first viewing, the scene in which the cops showed up to arrest Falcone didn't sit right with me. Ii think your point of having Selena being based cast as poor, biracial woman would have more bite if that film actually committed to that idea and Jim Gordon as well. Also, someone pointed out in the comments that Falcone actually being alive for the rest of the film could've been great if it were revealed in the end, that despite all their work, he still comes out scott-free.
What I'm hoping is that the sequel set--up of Gotham being under martial law could explore more of the role GCPD as an institution could play in contrast to Bruce's realization that being Bruce Wayne is just as important to his goal, not just being Batman 24/7. But, I'm not holding out of hope if it actually explored that. I'm skeptical, but slightly hopeful.
1:16 oh, he really does look like Doug walker doesn't he.
Great video man, love to see another michigander 👊
I wish I found your channel sooner! :D
Please every time when you have to say the phrase "One bad apple", please find a way to say the whole phrase "One bad apple spoils the bunch".
Have you seen the deleted scene of Batman talking with the Joker in prison? Curious what your thoughts are!
Most people call cops pigs I call them rats.
So, did you get my message about coproganda coming out of the rest of WB/DC media, in particular TITANS? I found their assumption that cops are by definition good guys in that show to be unnervingly tone def and disgusting, especially given that Batman, Nightwing, and that presence is so prominent and that we know that Batman was inspired by Zorro who we all know was diametrically opposed to systems of oppression and the occupying force his world.
While I admit, I didn't see the coproganda as overt in The Batman as in other things-- I loved the film, that may have blinded me partially-- I did see that it still had problematic bits. I appreciate and thank you for your take on the film, one Batman fan to another.
Hopefully they fix some of this moving forward and don't fall into Disney+ falcon and the winter soldier problems of "this leftist is the villain" uh, the audience agrees with the villain, sir. "We'll have them blow up a housing project just to remind everyone they are the bad guys."
The Marvel problem is that they are trying to do Magneto without doing Magneto, so instead of being able to rely on Magnetos supremacist tendencies (as a sort of caricature of Malcolm X's early beliefs), they have to rely on other methods to show how direct violent change is a Bad Thing because it inevitably leads to kicking puppies and shooting orphans.
Didn't the cops turn on the good guys in titans season 3 ?
Love seeing superheroes save people but wish copaganda wasn't so damn pervasive in this genre (can take several examples, but I find MHA so bad in this regard). I liked the ending of the batman, seeing batman become a symbol of hope rather than vengeance, but I really hope it doesn't up like the Nolan trilogy.
The Question I always had is it possible to make a crime fighting character as a main hero who isn't a scumbag and have it NOT be copaganda. Not saying this in judgemental way, but asking does the genera just leads to that. Even if it an anti hero crime fighter, you still going to identify them with them at points due to be a main character. Even if a character fighting against crooked cops that still leads to a NOT ALL cops. Even if they only fight coparate corruption..that still a heroic cops. And it could be argued that a fantasy because law enforcement tends not to go after those guys as hard as they do low level people in real life. Even if there not cops but superheros...they still kind of cops. maybe that why marvel movies you dont have a lot of street level crime fighting, or gangs fighting. But then again those could be viewed as millitary propaganda. Or the villian some guy who speak against that stuff but then goes full nuts where you can ignore what their saying
is having good cops in a story in any capacity bad?
@@yulee3266 I think not
@@jonsmith9838 alright
@@yulee3266 my Question was basicly what is copaganda and is there anyway to make a cop shows (where a somewhat decent cop the main character that ins't copagada). because some people over do the concern of copaganda. Like saying Brookylne 99 should of change the jobs in the last season
@@jonsmith9838 that makes more sense cause with some of the people in this comment section it came off as having good cops at all was bad
Now DC needs to release a motion picture adaption of Hitman. Give me Dogwelder fucking Bruce up.