So fascinating. In the occult, things like the two snakes are often used to portray (in their minds) the two equal and opposite forces of good and evil. I love what Jonathan says here about how Christians instead interpret them as the two possible paths--the one of the good thief and the one of the bad one.
He didn't clarify anything though, he just rephrased the duality aspect of the snakes. He doesn't even know what he's talking about really. He's be more correct if he noted how Jesus became a snake and died as one for our sake. The way the Vatican and Eastern Orthodox uses snakes though, is just foolishness.
Thank you for this, Jonathan. There's now only 1 degree of internet separation between Jay and Jordan, which will hopefully attract a substantial number of JBP fans to check out Jay's work and get more familiar with traditional Christianity, classical theology and fill in the huge knowledge hole when it comes to the deeper systems of governance.
Already happening, I went from Jordan Peterson (still listen to him and read his books) to Johnathan Pageau and recently came across Jay Dyer in his debate formats. I actually searched to see if Johnathan and Jay had spoke before and I've seen multiple Johnathan videos but never the ones with Jay, but after watching Jay vs [insert person] due to my interest in orthodoxy debates I searched this video. These two and Jordan have really help me come closer to Christ.
I always thought the staff and snake represented the rod and serpent moses held up in the desert for people who were bitten and looked upon the staff and were healed.
The problem however is this presupposes ALL symbols being “flexible” in interpretation/usage. This is where discernment comes in. Certain things simply can’t be “Christianized” as an excuse to avoid syncretism or demonic infiltration of The Church. The Caduceus being one example. That is Hittite in origin and later Masonic.
And here's why the alchemist and luciferins love it: One Greek myth of origin of the caduceus is part of the story of Tiresias,[14] who found two snakes copulating and killed the female with his staff. Tiresias was immediately turned into a woman, and so remained until he was able to repeat the act with the male snake seven years later. This staff later came into the possession of the god Hermes, along with its transformative powers.
the higher symbol of the two serpents mercury symbol is the holy of holies though even the holy of holies is a kind of 666 but the higher point of duality is that it's ultimate form is the tree of life wherein there is neither male nor female so to speak, the adam before his curve/rib is removed and before God put him in a deep sleep. it is the wisdom in reality that is the theosis of it all, but only in the holy spirit. the two beings in the midst of the throne of God in the vision isiah had. repentant hezekiah was the 13th king who destroyed the now idol that used to save, the crowns thrown to Jesus are not about ruler-ship but rather is about equality. it is only in the descent starting with white horse, the 550 = bow/toξon prince/governmental, eagle... lesser chopped up revelation that things are seen from lesser views. "ξ" being part of the 666 revelation.
@@brotherbroseph1416 no, all of creation including human nature will be resurrected, but our experience in the eschaton will be determined by our mode of willing, whether we recapitulated the virtues, during our life on earth.
We need to reconcile why God was so displeased with the Israelites worshipping the golden calf. 1) were they worshipping the golden calf, or were they worshipping God via the golden calf (mirroring how the pagans worshipped their god's)? 2) if they were trying to worship God by worshipping the golden calf, why would God be displeased by this? God is pretty clear in Deuteronomy 12 that he does not want his people to worship him the way pagan's worship their god's. Should we not be careful of this misstep?
Marvelous video. I am both a Mormon and a Freemason. The symbols are wonderful, because you see in them what is in yourself. You will see as many meanings, all superimposed upon each other, but only as deeply as you have discovered yourself. Thank you for the video!
surprised to see big brain jay being like this, guess he is at his best when he doesn't have to sperg out trying to defend his own religion. NDE, STE, and OOBE are the proofs I have that the religious don't care about God so much as their tribal conceptions of God. it is flabbergasting how much people have straight up acted like atheist when someone claims to have went to heaven or they cry out "demonic" because their small view of God fears to be burnt up in the consuming fire.
True. No matter how sophisticated they are, it is kinda lame when people convert and then spend the rest of their life defending their religion. The most astounding thing is that reality is magical and other realms are real, our souls are immortal, etc. Btw, what is STE?
What a mistake having this grifter on your channel. I don’t deny that Dyer knows a lot about other religions; he should, he’s tried making money in all of them.
Kinda bummed to know that you've become so chummy with the "convertodox" (holier than thou - other apostolic Christians because internet memes / the pope man bad)
@@MrWesford Yes, if you like wild mischaracterizations, a lack of charity and also pseudo protestant apologetics that amount to histrionics and sometimes calumny.
@@aloyalcatholic5785 at least he’s not a scummy like Damick 🤷🏻♂️ Do you have any examples of him “wildly mischaracterizing” or you yourself wildly mischaracterizing? How charitable does one need to be when debating heretics such as prots and Roman Catholics? Check his Twitter bio, it says comedian. And you do understand that Jay has the blessing of clergy and has clergy on his channel and discord, correct? And if he’s pseudo prot, than why does he constantly refer to the councils and the church fathers? You may just have a problem with orthodoxy, not Jay.
@@MrWesford i think by "charitable," he means arguing in good faith and properly characterizing the arguments and beliefs of others with whom he disagrees.
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Also Aaron's staff/snake swallowing up Egyptian sorcerers staffs/snakes.
So fascinating. In the occult, things like the two snakes are often used to portray (in their minds) the two equal and opposite forces of good and evil. I love what Jonathan says here about how Christians instead interpret them as the two possible paths--the one of the good thief and the one of the bad one.
what path would be the path of a good thief?
@@icarovdl Well it's a specific good thief--the one who died next to Jesus. He turned to Christ and asked to be remembered in His Kingdom.
@@AJ-me1dg Oh i see, thank you
Also Moses had a snake staff that ate the snakes of Pharoah's sorcerers
He didn't clarify anything though, he just rephrased the duality aspect of the snakes.
He doesn't even know what he's talking about really.
He's be more correct if he noted how Jesus became a snake and died as one for our sake. The way the Vatican and Eastern Orthodox uses snakes though, is just foolishness.
Thank you for this, Jonathan. There's now only 1 degree of internet separation between Jay and Jordan, which will hopefully attract a substantial number of JBP fans to check out Jay's work and get more familiar with traditional Christianity, classical theology and fill in the huge knowledge hole when it comes to the deeper systems of governance.
Already happening, I went from Jordan Peterson (still listen to him and read his books) to Johnathan Pageau and recently came across Jay Dyer in his debate formats.
I actually searched to see if Johnathan and Jay had spoke before and I've seen multiple Johnathan videos but never the ones with Jay, but after watching Jay vs [insert person] due to my interest in orthodoxy debates I searched this video.
These two and Jordan have really help me come closer to Christ.
Great conversation, hope you and Jay will talk again soon!
Yep, another 2 hours of this would be about perfect :)
Good stuff. This mr. Dyer is pretty smart
Jonathon thank you, I have learned more from you than any other, don't let it go to your head LOL Love
YES. Thanks!!
What verse is Jay referring to when Paul describes Christ as the microcosm of the macrocosm?
I always thought the staff and snake represented the rod and serpent moses held up in the desert for people who were bitten and looked upon the staff and were healed.
The problem however is this presupposes ALL symbols being “flexible” in interpretation/usage. This is where discernment comes in. Certain things simply can’t be “Christianized” as an excuse to avoid syncretism or demonic infiltration of The Church. The Caduceus being one example. That is Hittite in origin and later Masonic.
Christ can transfigure anything.
And here's why the alchemist and luciferins love it:
One Greek myth of origin of the caduceus is part of the story of Tiresias,[14] who found two snakes copulating and killed the female with his staff. Tiresias was immediately turned into a woman, and so remained until he was able to repeat the act with the male snake seven years later. This staff later came into the possession of the god Hermes, along with its transformative powers.
Jay's Kill Bates was showing up at some points
the higher symbol of the two serpents mercury symbol is the holy of holies though even the holy of holies is a kind of 666 but the higher point of duality is that it's ultimate form is the tree of life wherein there is neither male nor female so to speak, the adam before his curve/rib is removed and before God put him in a deep sleep. it is the wisdom in reality that is the theosis of it all, but only in the holy spirit. the two beings in the midst of the throne of God in the vision isiah had. repentant hezekiah was the 13th king who destroyed the now idol that used to save, the crowns thrown to Jesus are not about ruler-ship but rather is about equality. it is only in the descent starting with white horse, the 550 = bow/toξon prince/governmental, eagle... lesser chopped up revelation that things are seen from lesser views. "ξ" being part of the 666 revelation.
is jonathan a universalist? is dyer?
They are both Orthodox Christian
@@larryjake7783 yes i know. are they universalists?
@@brotherbroseph1416 no they arent
@@brotherbroseph1416 no, all of creation including human nature will be resurrected, but our experience in the eschaton will be determined by our mode of willing, whether we recapitulated the virtues, during our life on earth.
You should talk to Odon Lafontaine once, he is a Catholic Scholar on th eorigins of Islam, you could learn a lot from each other
We need to reconcile why God was so displeased with the Israelites worshipping the golden calf.
1) were they worshipping the golden calf, or were they worshipping God via the golden calf (mirroring how the pagans worshipped their god's)?
2) if they were trying to worship God by worshipping the golden calf, why would God be displeased by this?
God is pretty clear in Deuteronomy 12 that he does not want his people to worship him the way pagan's worship their god's. Should we not be careful of this misstep?
It’s possible to represent Jesus the Son, but impossible to represent God the Father, lest you mistake the image for the infinite and unknowable.
Jay Dyer…lol..(come on J.P.)
Marvelous video. I am both a Mormon and a Freemason. The symbols are wonderful, because you see in them what is in yourself. You will see as many meanings, all superimposed upon each other, but only as deeply as you have discovered yourself. Thank you for the video!
You literally just explained the Hindu and occult meaning of the two snakes....
Sheesh, but this is not Christian
surprised to see big brain jay being like this, guess he is at his best when he doesn't have to sperg out trying to defend his own religion. NDE, STE, and OOBE are the proofs I have that the religious don't care about God so much as their tribal conceptions of God. it is flabbergasting how much people have straight up acted like atheist when someone claims to have went to heaven or they cry out "demonic" because their small view of God fears to be burnt up in the consuming fire.
True. No matter how sophisticated they are, it is kinda lame when people convert and then spend the rest of their life defending their religion. The most astounding thing is that reality is magical and other realms are real, our souls are immortal, etc. Btw, what is STE?
What a mistake having this grifter on your channel. I don’t deny that Dyer knows a lot about other religions; he should, he’s tried making money in all of them.
He's orthodox though...
Oh no, a person making a living sharing his knowledge (mostly for free) on the internet. Call an exorcist!
Kinda bummed to know that you've become so chummy with the "convertodox" (holier than thou - other apostolic Christians because internet memes / the pope man bad)
Jay is honestly one of the best Orthodox presences online 🤷🏻♂️ glory to God for the work he does.
@@MrWesford Yes, if you like wild mischaracterizations, a lack of charity and also pseudo protestant apologetics that amount to histrionics and sometimes calumny.
The Catholic themselves fight over the Vatican II and the Pope vacancy
@@aloyalcatholic5785 at least he’s not a scummy like Damick 🤷🏻♂️
Do you have any examples of him “wildly mischaracterizing” or you yourself wildly mischaracterizing?
How charitable does one need to be when debating heretics such as prots and Roman Catholics? Check his Twitter bio, it says comedian.
And you do understand that Jay has the blessing of clergy and has clergy on his channel and discord, correct? And if he’s pseudo prot, than why does he constantly refer to the councils and the church fathers? You may just have a problem with orthodoxy, not Jay.
@@MrWesford i think by "charitable," he means arguing in good faith and properly characterizing the arguments and beliefs of others with whom he disagrees.