Lead rope solo method, as safe as it gets
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- Опубликовано: 16 май 2024
- Gerke Hoekstra is very experienced in lead rope solo climbing and tope rope solo climbing. I've been using these techniques and I love the freedom it gives me: I can work out the beta of a hard sport climbing route or climb laps on an easy route by myself and work on endurance.
Gerke shows is preferred method using a petzl grigri, petzl asap and petzl microtraxion, but he also shows a cheaper system using only the petzl grigri and backup knots.
Disclaimer: rope solo is dangerous, and none of these devices are designed for it! One thing that isn't discussed is the factor 2 fall which can occur in multipitch climbing. A factor 2 fall can result in a force of 6kN and is VERY dangerous. Best thing to do is to avoid factor 2 falls. Risk management is something you should be able to do when multipitch climbing.
Other resources:
Andy Kirkpatrick: www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog...
Petzl:
m.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Gener...
And other channels such as @HardIsEasy @WideBoyz @Pete_Whittaker and @HowNOT2 @YannCamusBlissClimbing
Huge thanks to Gerke Hoekstra! And if you live in Holland, check out the climbing wall in Spaarnwoude!
Timestamps:
0:00 Rope solo to climb alone
0:14 Introduction to rope solo
0:52 Why rope solo
1:15 Rope solo basics
2:06 Necessary skills
3:00 Main equipment
4:20 Backup device
5:42 Other equipment
6:44 Lead rope solo technique
9:20 Cache loop & rope management
10:12 Lead rope solo with knots
12:00 Tope rope solo
13:01 Climbers with families
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Cognitive psychologist and passionate rock climber. My goal for 2022 is to overcome some health issues and go from climbing 7a to climbing an 8a :)
My plan to reach 8a consists of a mental, tactical and and a physical phase. Every 2 weeks, I will evaluate my progress and check if I'm still adhering to my core values: health, virtue, resourcefulness, transparency, and growth. Progressing towards 8a must not be detrimental to my long-term health, or any of the other core values.
I will share the whole journey on RUclips! If you want to know every detail, go to AmirNickname.com to see the exact stats and schedule.
For information about falling safely while bouldering go to:
valcursus.nl
Music by Fesliyan studios & Ben Sound
#rockclimbing #climbing #bouldering 
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I'm not a rock climber but I am a cell tower climber and certified rigger. The equipment and techniques shown in the video are essentially exactly the same as what is covered in the tower climbing certification course. Rock climbing is literally as foreign to me as the bottom of the sea is to a cloud, but it is cool watching this video and seeing the same equipment I use every day. I have the utmost respect for anyone that rock climbs regardless of what type or style of climbing you do. It takes a special type of person to do one of the most physically demanding and all-around toughest things any person can do just for the fun and adventure of it.
Wow thank you so much for your reply! Very interesting to hear your thoughts, glad you found the video! Oh and there are a lot of climbing and bouldering gyms across the globe now, give it a try one day - they are very beginner friendly :)
Same. I’ve only went climbing recreationally once in my life. But i have been doing arena rigging and rope access work for over a decade. As well as climbing on stage builds. There’s definitely a lot of overlap in skills (and gear). A lot of the guys I work with have rock climbing and/or tower climbing backgrounds.
@K7J Didn't you learn the Petzl method described in the "Belaying a climber for tower access with the ASAP LOCK" article?
That’s awesome dude, I’m currently a top hand on a tower crew but I’m also a rock climber in my free time so I basically live in the cortical world
I get that the missing partner check makes things more risky, but why are rope soloists so concerned with failing primary devices, while partnered sport climbing is always fine with using just one rope and one grigri? Wondering what the man himself @YannCamusBlissClimbing says to this.
One crucial detail you left out is in case of a head down fall the grigri WILL NOT LOCK(!) making that third han that much more important, and the chest harness made out of sling should never cross your neck.
Some people remove the chest harness from the system so that the grigri will lock in any orientation, but it makes paying slack out more difficult. I think the Wild Country Revo would be a less cumbersome solution. Very smooth feeding and no chest harness necessary due to the inertia wheel mechanism.
@@birenpatel1838 I'll be trying this setup this same week, sadly I will stick to the backup knots
Myself I use 100lbs test fishing line to orientate the grigri with a chest harness.
That way in the event of a fall the grigri will break loose of the chest harness and pivot freely off of my belay loop.
I’ve taken many falls with this setup and its been very reliable. Typically I’ll carry multiple spare fishing line loops so I’m able to continue climbing following a fall, especially on multi-pitch routes.
Nice systems, and very clear, well-presented video. Just to point out (Whittaker method): you could secure the micro-traxion to your belay loop, pre-tie backup knots in the spare rope behind the trax as blockers in case the belay device fails, then untie them as you climb. Overhands or slip knots can be untied one-handed. No need for an ASAP and less faff than multiple pre-tied cache loops this way. The knots+trax will save you even if the belay device totally fails.
People in industry have rope solod forever, it's perfectly safe with the right equipment and knowledge! Thanks for sharing!
In industry it's completely different and shouldn't be compared because you use static ropes already attached at the top. In LRS sport climbing you have the rope below you and you take big dynamic impressive falls, and that changes everything. It's a completely different world.
Great video Amir, thank you for all you have showed us!!!
Thank you for taking the time to comment! I really appreciate your kindness!
It’s pretty crazy, I’ve been climbing for a little while now (all by myself) and only from what I figured out on RUclips. This is the exact set up that I use that I developed on my own just using a bunch of different gear and coming to the determination of what is the most safe set up to climb alone.
Wow, super impressive! Stay safe :)
This is a great self rescue skill to have as well! I'll practice this technique. Thanks!
I do the same top rope method with the Jumar as well, but with a smooth cam device called the Ushba. Doesn't shred the rope when I fall.
great video thank you
Good, thanks bro
Great video, great insight and ideas and even better at dealing with the negative comments. Very well done 👍
I've never tried lead soloing, only top rope soloing but I was really impressed with the creative use of the ASAP, I haven't seen it used like that (even on RUclips) before.
I appreciate the kind words, thank you for commenting! I definitely prefer top rope solo, so I really love it when it's possible to just put up the rope and then immediately get to do some actual climbing. So much less hassle :)
@@AmirNickname Hey Amir! Would you recommend the same setup for top rope solo? (Grigri, asap, traxxion, micro)
That's the only thing available in my area. :)
great video.
For your second method, if you use clove hitches instead of overhand knots, it will be incredibly easy to undo knots one handed; you just unclip it and it's gone.
Definitely more convenient! I checked with Gerke and he doesn't recommend it though, as it could move around when unloaded and then open the gate of the snapper. I guess it's a choice between convenience and safety :)
See also the video Yann made: ruclips.net/video/0ZMEuthPKhA/видео.html
@@AmirNickname Thanks for mentioning me! I would LOVE to see a reference to what I do in the video description ;-) NOTE that in the videos I try to focus on what can go wrong and what not to do. Because I believe learning TRS and LRS should be done with more that watching a few RUclips videos. I prefer clove hitches for this use than both the ASAP and the overhand knots you present. And yes everything is about managing the risk. Not about safety.
The Trango Vergo is a must have device for any system you use. The design allows you to attach it to a taught rope, so you can put it on the rope after a fall, above your main device,.so you can easily lower off a route, without having to go through 3 or 4 steps of unweighting the system to attach a rappel device.
What an awesome man made real rock wall!
really awesome video, very well explained.. also the channel is just crazy nice, full with information and a real charismatic person who delivers, presents his knowledge with certainty and humor.
thank you therefore (is that right, my grammar and vocabulary is not the best, sry)?
keep up the mindboggling nice work and stay safe as always!
keep "rock"ing 😜😅
*and as a climber myself I think u explained it very well and I believe also as easy understandable as it gets for beginners.
really excited to see your other videos, thanks one more time..
& have a nice evening, train hard, sleep well.. just get on with it ;P
Wow! Such a nice comment! I had a pretty bad day (got injured and I think it's bad, having it looked at tomorrow) but your words really helped me cheer up :)
Thank you so much!!
Huge thanks to Gerke for sharing his methods! Over the last weeks I've climbed several kilometers up and down a top rope (solo) to work on my aerobic endurance. My goal is to reach 8a and as a boulderer I really need more capacity! What are your goals, and could rope solo help you get there?
** UPDATE! **
Yann Camus from BlissClimbing has made an interesting video on the Petzl ASAP: ruclips.net/video/paSatLMAYQY/видео.html
In the video, the ASAP is not used as a backup and therefore takes the whole impact of the fall. Despite that, we can learn a lot from this video. The main takeaways for me:
- Prevent cross-loading of the carabiner that is attached to the Gri Gri (or use a steel maillon). If the grigri slips, the ASAP will tuck on the rope and activate the break on the Gri Gri. However, if the carabiner that holds the Gri Gri breaks, the leftover forces of the fall must be caught by the ASAP alone. Prevent this scenario at all costs!
- When climbing multi-pitch, make sure you prevent a Factor 2 fall! This is always important, as a Factor 2 fall can cause equipment to fail. In the video Yann made, we can clearly see how a Factor 2 fall can make the Petzl ASAP cut the rope.
This is a strong reminder of the disclaimer in the video: none of these devices are designed for rope solo. So use them at your own risk, and only do so after having learned about the equipment and having made your own risk assessment. 👍
In 5:30 you say that lead fall would result in much lower force, but bear in mind that the video shows fall with the belayer. Fall when you staticly fixed rope to the anchor would result in much more force because the system is much more static. In my opinion it could easily surpass 4 kN of force.
Looks like we arrive at different conclusions, but I really appreciate your thought process! It's great to see you perform your own risk analysis, which I think is a vital skill.
And you are right, when LRSing the system becomes static, and the fall factor become way more meaningful than when climbing with a belayer.
Hi Amir! I must say that this video was published a year ago and Gerke Hoekstra used this for more time. You got something there. A new system was born! I have experience with the original ASAP (a rather bad experience, I don't recommend it. You recognize it from a big black plastic part.). But recently tested the new ASAP. If you stay with ropes above 9.5mm and fall factors at a maximum of 1 it should all be allright. I recommend you add the fall factor recommendation. The ASAP system is probably not for multi-pitch (except if doing a bomber plus-clip / clipping the first protection of the next pitch before you clean the current pitch). Note that I have not experimented much with it yet. But plan to! Does it all make sense?
@@user-py8kj8xx6y I don’t understand your question. But I believe all devices you list and the ASAP would survive one 80kg drop of 2m FF2 fall on a dynamic 10+mm rope. Would not be pretty with the ASAP and desheated rope…
Excellent clip...safe as long as you know your systems...the colour of the rope blends a wee bit into the rock and would be better with a stronger colour...maybe take a fall so we can see how the Gregory blocks the fall...good work!
Thank you so much! There's a fall around 1 minute 55 seconds in, if you're interested!
You can always master good rope technique from the ground!
Wow, great insights, i.e. content! Subscribed! I noticed you are using the older GriGri, maybe first version of it... Would you specifically recommend that device, or would the newer GriGri+ or GriGri3 make a difference because of the lower spring-tension? Have seen some videos on rope-solo with the "old" one only now. THANX!
Hi and thank you so much for your kind words! Most people will lead rope solo with the older grigri, because it feeds really well. The newer versions will probably brake a little faster than most LRS climbers would want. However, you can definitely LRS with a newer grigri! As always, you'll have to test your setup to see what works well (try different rope diameters for instance), and do a risk assessment :)
Done this with Trango Cinch and 11mm rope regularly..no backup. It was super sensitive it terms of locking.
Yet, I never would be really confident in outdoor routes with bolts set wide. Waiting for the soft belay catch mechanism.
Yeah I like to pick a hard route next to an easy one. Lead rope solo the easy one, then top rope solo the hard one.
There are systems for a soft catch but most of them only work once (like the kong kisa). I've also heard someone use a very strong elastic band. Haven't seen an ideal solution yet though...
Yes, I rope soloed. But life is better with friends.
if you have a full strength gear loop on the back of your harness clip between that and the main belay loop = bomber
Great video, Amir. Big thanks to you and Gerke for taking the time to do this. Have you tried any hard sport climbs at your redpoint (7c+/8a?) using this technique? I've yet to see any video on youtube of someone sport lead soloing above 6c on an overhang/roof.
Not me, I'm too much of a wuss! I have for instance climbed a 6b that was next to an 8a so I could try the moves of the 8a on top rope. Gerke probably did harder stuff though...
I checked: Gerke has climbed 7b lead rope solo, and apparently Pete Whittaker has climbed up to 7c+ solo...!
@@AmirNickname Thanks for the info! Seems like other than fear, once you get really comfortable and memorised with the system it's almost no different than having a partner. If you do eventually try, search for the "gromm hitch" by the ArcticBastards youtube channel. It's a 3D printed attachment for quickdraws which eliminates the backfeeding problem with almost zero effort during climbing. I think the rubber band trick Greke used would cause too much forearm pump on a hard redpoint.
If I am not mistaken, Alex Huber has done some 8s rope solo. Can't recall exactly, but definitely 8+.
Damn, I really need to visit Spaarnwoude at some point before leaving the netherlands it looks like a fun place. Most of the time I go to Monte Cervino in Rotterdam, great place as well. I have seen some guys doing some rope solo there as well.
I was just at Monte Cervino today! Nice to train long routes at a gym :)
@@AmirNickname yes indeed, you should try the routes that use only the features of the wall and no holds, those are very nice. the 6a going all the way to the top on the slab side is beautiful.
very good thanks - do you use an dynamic rope with asap?
Yes when lead climbing always use dynamic rope. If you want to use the asap the way it's intended (instead of a a backup for LRS) then check the manual to see which rope is best suited :)
Thank you very much for the video. The truth is that I don't understand the use of microtraxion very well. I know that you use the ASAP as a backup in case the gri gri fails (I use Revo and carabiner in ballestrinque knots), but what is the function of the microtraxion? Would it be like a third security element? a redundant third?
Thanks for the question! It's hard to explain, but it won't work , or at the very least won't work very well....
The weight of the rope will always pull the rope down, the microtraxion can hold a part of this weight. If you don't have a microtraxion, then the weight of the rope will pull on the grigri (as the ASAP won't block, except for in a fall). I'm not sure if it's unsafe to not use a microtraxion, but I definitely don't recommend it as it's a huge hassle in terms of feeding.
The microtraxion allows you to create a cache loop, so you can give yourself some slack and climb a few moves at a time. This will feed the system very smoothly.
I don't know if a microtraxion is necessary in your setup... Anyway, hope this clears it up! Stay safe! :)
Thank you very much!!@@AmirNickname
As arborist i can say to you that ist better to have the Revo (is a certified climbing device for Uiaa falls without teeth), and work kind of the same like the asap, with centrifugal force, when the speed is more than 4 m/s it ll block you.
and i would change now the grigri with the edelrid pinch, just cause of you can put it directly on the ring of harness, than it works properly in each directions.
In this case you got 2 Uiaa climber devices as backup.
Just to answer about the micro traxion it doesnt work cause of It can block just from 1 side and indeed it hold the rope back. in case you are falling the traxion will not work to stop you, just cause by falling down the microtraxion fells like that you are giving in the open free direction rope in a quickly way.
the system is:
ROPE -->TRAX-->REVO-->PINCH
the trax can not work on the other way or you ll be holded by it.
Rope Revo --> Pinch
Hi, I've been climbing with this set up and it has been awesome! My only issue is that cache loop would sometimes loop under my leg or my foot. Have you figured out a way to keep it off the leg?
Glad this is working out for you! Unfortunately, I don't think I have a simple solution for the cache loop (other than having less rope out). In the video you can see Gerke climb with this setup, and it seems like he simply has the experience to avoid the cache loop while climbing. Maybe more experience will help you out as well? In any case, thanks for your comment!! Stay safe and keep crushing :)
@@AmirNickname Couldn’t you just grab a bend (at the end of the loop)and hook it in the carabiner in essence halving the loop length but doubling the number of loops. One twist at the bend and hook into the carabiner where the over hand is.
i want to try this but i havent bought my grigri yet and i was wondering what is better between a grigri and a grigri+ ?
I don't have an opinion on it, but I did find this article from Andy Kirkpatrick that might help you:
www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/grigriplus
Great video! Could you please show how to put the elastic bands more clear please? Is the only part I can't see well. Min 13:40
The rubber band basically adds friction to keep the rope in place (so it unweights it a bit as you climb). I've also seen somebody use a clothespin. There's a rope solo facebook group with lots of photos and close ups, so if you're interested look for that and join the group :)
@@AmirNickname yup thanks I meant how to do it. I use untie knots but I prefer that system
Do you modify the Grigri to get the chest harness cord through it?
The gri gri in the video has a small hole drilled in the plastic so that a cord can be fed through. There are multiple ways to attach such a keeper cord, but keep in mind petzl doesn't approve of any modifications made to their equipment. I use my gri gri wirh keeper cord mod for rope solo only, and use unmodded devices to belay others.
@@AmirNickname Hi..can you use instead of an ASAP also a normal Petzl basic? looking forward to an answer
I'm new to the community and this question might seem obvious, but, how do you retrieve the rope from the top anchor once at the bottom?
Some other channels like Outdoor Research and REI have videos explaining how to clean a top rope anchor in the context of sport climbing. That should give you some ideas :)
The purpose of the ASAP seems quite odd. I noticed in another comment you said that it is the third barrier in case of a fall.
1) Gri Gri (GG) should hold.
2) If GG slips, ASAP gives enough friction to activate the Gri Gri
3) If GG fails entirely, you'll hang on the ASAP.
I guess my question is this. What are the failure modes of the GG? It seems like you'll only end up hanging on the ASAP if the GG literally explodes into pieces. Otherwise the ASAP will run into the GG, and the GG may prevent the ASAP from working entirely.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but to me, in place of the ASAP, one should use any device that adds friction to the system, just to activate the GG incase the GG is slipping. But one should still be able to trust the GG from completely exploding. I've never used one, but I wonder if the Edelrid Ohm could work in place of the ASAP? Alternatively (and I say this from the comfort of my armchair w/o yet testing it), using a clove hitch that you adjust down the rope or a prussik that is 'generally loose' but would tighten up incase of a fall.
I guess I'm just looking for a device that could add friction when needed, but still rely on the Gri Gri and the fact that it'll never "Completely fail". It'll only slip in some scenarios. Other ideas to add friction are the Kong Backup or the Camp Lift.
Thoughts?
Most people backup using knots, so that in the case of a slip the knot jams in the grigri. But that doesn't help for instance if the carabiner holding the grigri fails (which has happened). That's why Gerke attaches the knots to a sling to his belay loop so that it also works if the grigri (or its carabiner) fails. A system with a clove hitch is quite popular in aid climbing but I don't know how it works exactly. If you want to see different devices, the channel Yann Camus BlissClimbing is probably your best source.
@@AmirNickname Gotcha, so more worried about the carabiner failing, rather than the Gri Gri failing. Hence why you use the rapide. Why not use just a big 'ole fatty steel carabiner? Seems like if you beef up the carabiner connection (rapide or steely) the ASAP becomes unnecessary, and you simply need a device that will add enough friction to activate the GG in case the GG is slipping.
Thanks for the suggestion to check out BlissClimbing. I'll go take a look!
@@TrevorOlsonBozeman a steel carabiner sounds like a good idea. Also, although I don't know of any cases where the grigri explodes, I still like the idea of having a backup in case of a complete failure. For instance, once I put the rope through the grigri the wrong way: the climbers end should be pointed at the anchor in this setup, which is counter intuitive and I made a mistake. As a result, the grigri didn't catch me and the ASAP kicked in. Human error causes most accidents, so I still suggest you use 2 devices so that you have a complete backup! :)
Just wondering what diameter rope he uses, as the ASAP being better with rope close to 11mm, while I could imagine the GriGri would seize up easier at its max at around 10mm?
He uses 10mm, I use 9.8mm. Keep in mind we use the original grigri, which seems to feed better than the newer grigri versions when rope soloing. There's a lot of variables, make sure you test your system before you try it for real!
as a professionel I trust the asap as a stand alone since you have to use it as intended with the asap sorber .. witch petzl claims will absorb the impact on rope in case of fall .. i climb / robe with heavy equipment and is not scared about only having my asap.
What size rope are you using with the ASAP?
I use 9.8mm, but if you plan on using it, don't just take my word for it! Read the instructions and test your system :)
I just use a wild country revo for leading. At top I swap to gri gri for an down and reclimb on top rope. Really simple and easy
What do you use as a backup? The revo does sound convenient and I think many people use it, but there are also some examples of it failing so always use a backup :)
@@AmirNickname yip. Depending on the route I tie knots
@@AmirNickname where have you seen the revo fail?
The Revo is indeed the best but you have to be well aware of all its issues. I rappell down with the Revo too, actually, it doesn't take much to get used to it. And you can top-rope too: it's not as comfortable as the Micro Traxion because you have to cut slack everytime, but it works.
ASAP Rock for dynamic rope
9.6? It's written that it's
designed for 10-13mm
diameter rope.
Is a problem if
rope is 9.6?
What about the
rope type (dynamic instead of
static)?
Can't say, you would have to test the system to see if the level of safety is acceptable for you. I've used 9.8mm dynamic rope and deemed that acceptable, but I wouldn't recommend it given the fact that Petzl clearly stated 10-13mm for the ASAP...
@@AmirNickname thank you for quick answer.
I’ve got one more question.
So I had in mind to top rope solo. I would use my 70m dynamic rope, I would tie it in the middle on the anchor, so there would be two halves (35m each) going down from anchor.
On one side of rope I would use grigri, microtraxion, rollnlock and asap, on other side of rope I would tie knots on every 2 meters. And I would lock my self with quickdraws on those knots, than I would climb 2 meters and lock on 2nd knot and unlock from 1st knot, and so on ☺️ do you think this way would work? How is with the fall factors in a rope that is tied on top and do you think I would stres allot that rope in case I would fall?
I hope you understood me 😛 thank you again for your help!
could you please tell me the most thin diameter of rope you can use with asap?
I think the manual says 10mm minimum, but it also works fine on my 9.8mm rope.... I wouldn't trust anything thinner but you could always experiment (safely) to see what works!
Hi, maybe I missed it but what rope diameter do you guys use? The ASAP is rated 10mm and above only. If you use thinner, have you tested it? Curious as I'm interested in your system but only have 9.4mm max in dynamic ropes.
Hi Denis! I use 9.8mm rope, which seems to work fine in the couple of tests I've done. However, please don't take my word for it and test your system before you start climbing. Better safe than sorry :)
@@AmirNickname yep, for sure. thanks for the answer.
I use the asap in work (im a level 3 irara technician) you shouldnt use it like that at all, they are supposed to be use with a shock absorber, if you were to take a nasty fall onto the asap it would strip the rope
You are totally right. The ASAP is not designed for this use. The same is true for the gri gri. There are serious risks involved in rock climbing, especially when rope soloing.
In this method the ASAP is a third barrier is case of a fall. First, the gri gri should do the job. Second, if the gri gri slips, the ASAP can activate the gri gri. Finally, in the unlikely event that the gri gri fails completely, the ASAP could hold the fall. As explained, the estimated force on the rope when sport climbing is less than what an ASAP should hold (without damaging the rope, according to the standard).
It all comes down to risk management I guess, and deciding what level of risk is still acceptable.
Meant for static ropes far fatter than what we using on rock these days. Not a particularly good back up at work either, for some.
@@AmirNickname maybe the asap is not worth it, any other alternatives?
amateur question perhaps; what does an asap do that a prusik knot doesn't?
The ASAP is a mobile fall arrester. It allows the rope to move freely in one direction, and locks in the other direction in the event of a sudden acceleration. See the Petzl website for more information. I know that some people use a prusik for rope solo, but I don't think I have the expertise to say anything meaningful about it. Let's hope Yann from Bliss Climbing replies or makes a video about this topic :)
Is he utilizing 11mm rope when lead rope soloing? Just wondering with that being the recommendation for the Petzl ASAP.
My Petzl ASAP came with instructions that called for 10-13mm rope diamater. In this video we use 9.8mm I think, but I'm not certain. Keep in mind the Petzl ASAP (just like all other devices in this video) are not designed for rope solo, so even with the recommended rope diameter you'd have to test the system and do the risk assessment yourself.
Thanks for the quick response.
How was a diameter rope? The petzl asap works only on 10-11 mm rope?
Check the manual for rope specs, I think it's 10-13mm if I remember correctly (my rope is 9.8mm...)
m.petzl.com/INT/en/Professional/Mobile-fall-arresters/technical-content-product/ASAP
You think it works on 9.1 mam rope ?
@@Kamil-ks1gy don't know but I wouldn't recommend it...
Ok thanks for answear
and it is also only recommended to use it with a shock absorber, it's a sketchy backup at best
Are there even Devices that are made for Rope Soloing? Or is it just a companies way to avoid getting sued, saying none is suitable for rope solo, in the case they fail?
one used to be, called the silent partner. they are now extremely expensive, usually going for over $1,000 used. the most popular devices for lead rope solo other than the SP are the Grigri, Revo, and Taz Lov2/3, none of which are rated for LRS.
silent partner, solo aid, soloist. All discontinued.
Think this will work better with a mammut smart.? They lock fast and in any direction
I don't recommend it... Don't know anyone who found a reliable system that also feeds well with such devices. Of course, I'm always willing to learn so if you find something let me know :)
@@AmirNickname well the thing with the smart is that it Blocks very very easy (and gets stucked). So in an uncontrolled fall I dont think the smart fails (even upside down).
In a trad anchor set up how do you have no extension because the master point would be facing downwards due to gravity- would you put in an additional piece above the master point and clove it to keep it in place? Also for multipitch trad you would probably have make a multidirectional anchor just in case you took a factor two fall - what’s the best way to set up a multidirectional anchor. The few times I’ve played around with rope soloing I had a hard time pulling slack - do you have any tips on how to pull slack more easily without getting it stuck in the grigri
Hi John! Gerke demonstrates the elastic band trick around 10 minutes into the video, that can be used to keep the master point facing upwards.
I can't help you with the multidirectional anchor, but would highly suggest you do whatever you can to prevent a factor 2 fall.
Finally, if the rope keeps getting stuck in the grigri, then perhaps experiment with other thickness rope or try and get your hands on a grigri 1 (it feeds a bit smoother than newer versions). Hope this helps!
Also, the cache loop and direction of pull are variables to experiment with for a more smooth experience in terms of slack management!
Great video thank you! Couple questions:
1. Is a 9.9mm rope fine for rope solo?
2. What product is the weak link, is it a rubber band or something?
Hi and thank you!
You should always test your setup, but I personally rope solo with 9.8mm rope.
The weak link is a cord or rubber band that is strong enough to keep the device in place, but is so weak that it will definitely break if the grigri fails completely in a fall. I personally do not use a weak link, but I can see how it would help prevent damage to the gear loop of your harness in such an (unlikely) event.
@@AmirNickname wow thank you so much for your reply! Opened up a whole new world of climbing for me, thanks again for making this video!
Although the way that anchor at the bottom is set up is redundant with two bolts the shallow angle greater than sixty degrees creates large vector forces. That is a pretty basic anchor building rule right? Yes the master point was not midway between the two bolts but still a vector force is being created on the left hand bolt. If the anchor was built like that with trad gear then that opens up a whole other set of problems about the change in the direction the gear is being pulled if one piece fails. Anyway it would be better if those anchor points at the bottom were a lot closer together.
Thanks Tom, for being sharp on this one! I believe howNOT2 made a video on this topic and demonstrated that it's a smaller issue in real life scenarios than previously thought (but still something to be aware of!!)
ruclips.net/video/7sQNpjnJe40/видео.html
The angle doesn’t look that bad.
Seems like 2nd method is not for hard rope solo;
for me I used Grigri only, but when harder move I had to use teeth to get more rope for putting quickdraw and rope in, then let go, relax and continue.
great video, think I go for ASAP/lov2 taz & grigri technique
Thanks for commenting! I just wanted to say I really respect you for trying harder routes on rope solo. I've never tried, the thought alone scares the shit out of me :p
Who named that thing GRI GRI?
Why did you fall 3m from hips to bolt :o
My guess is this: Gerke gave himself slack to clip. Then, as he climbed up there was a buildup of slack in the system. If there was a belayer, he would've taken in the slack, but in this case that extra rope was still in the system. Usually though, a bigger fall means more rope stretch to catch you which makes the fall more comfortable. As long as there's no risk of a ground fall that is :)
To me that's the scary thing about lead solo, the falls are kinda long as you tend to get more slack in your system as when you have a belayer to take it out. On top of that your belay device of choice will have some amount of slippage. Not for the faint for heart.
@@KiliChai no it's just bad rope management, you have to pull the rope tight to monitor the amount of slack and prevent backfeed, otherwise you can hit the ground
@@KiliChai he was demonstrating a fall, of course he could've takdn measures to fall less far. But yeah, rope solo can be scary!
In my experience falls on lead solo tend to be longer, as back-feeding is hard to eliminate completely. Maybe that's just me sucking at rope-management tho, lol
ENGLISH TIP: Every time he says he's "using nuts" for this or that, he just means "knots". There are no nuts used in the making of this video. PS: Took me a while to figure out why they're using the art piece climbing wall to demonstrate. At first I thought it was because it was so cool; then I realized: Holland is flat as a pancake. All of it, apparently.
Haha yes it's sad but true! Holland is flat (and large areas are below sea level). This piece of art is as close to real rock as it gets for us :)
Fortunately, other countries with fantastic climbing and bouldering areas are still well within driving range!!
Why not just use the petzl asap by itself? That way the rope feeds through the asap in both directions while still locking on a fall
I wouldn't recommend that because the consequences would be too big (fatal) if anything would go wrong. Always have a backup. Also, I wouldn't use the ASAP as my primary system for lead rope solo, but only as a backup. In the end, none of these devices have been designed for lead rope solo, so it's very important you do an elaborate risk assessment for whatever setup you decide to use - and then also test the system.
Couldnt you just tie your base to a tree or any secure object on the ground?
Options like that can be possible depending on the surroundings; no trees in this area though so it wasn't possible here. Make sure you know what you're doing though! Betaclimbers put out a warning in this video: ruclips.net/video/z2-KSfxQNO4/видео.html
@@AmirNickname Thank you so much for the response. Yeah, I thought it might just be easier than having to create bolts in a wall that might not already be there. The part I was wondering about is the safety aspect.
سلام ممنون بابت ویدئو ،شما ایرانی هستید؟
Yes but I barely speak the language. Good thing Google can translate :)
خوشحالم موفقیتتان را در رشته ورزشی و تولید محتوای آموزشی پیشرفته می بینم ، برای شما آرزوی موفقیت بیشتر دارم👍♥️
@9:23 you are wearing a helmet you are on the ground, prior to 9:23 while climbing, you had no helmet on??? I was wondering why no helmet when climbing?? and you wear one while standing on the ground talking????
Hi Tom! Filming something like this takes all day and can be a bit chaotic at times. He simply forgot his helmet one time, that's all.
میبینم که دلمه هم پختن براتون😍😂😂
Not sure I like either methods. Both feature dangling rope by your right thigh. Easy to step your left leg into the loop and get yourself all tangled up. Clipping is easier with right hand but it looks more awkward with left hand. What if the amount of Slack you pull through the Gri Gri and ASAP is too much, you can't easily reverse the slack. It has to be quite accurate.
On trad routes, you have to find a good anchor that is good for upward pulling force. It's not always available. With ASAP, Minitraxion or lots of knotted loops on the right hand side of your harness, it takes up your raking capacity for other trad gear. On a bolted route, it's alright.
Then, you've got multipitch problem. You have to come down the pitch with another rope to clean the pitch. Then climb back up the rope. In all that time wasted in doing a couple of pitches, you can find a climbing partner!
All look a bit of a faff.
Why not go Alex Honold style? Very cheap. Rock boots and chalk bag and a nice shirt!
Why not use an ID instead of the GRIGRI? ID is meant to hang on.
I had to check with Gerke, he says that the ID could work but it's more expensive and a bit heavier. He mentioned it probably has potential, but he hasn't tested it so he can't be more specific about why it would be better or worse.
the teeth will stop you hand feeding rope through
A friend used a Rig with success. But the Rig is not his favorite LRS device I believe.
The ASAP was designed to catch a fall by itself,which means you could top rope solo with your ASAP. - an ASAP lock owner
steel doesnt work equally in all directions, it can withstand more force in a normal load instead of being loaded a shear force so the maillon you use isnt that useful and will break with a fall when cross loaded if the rating for shear strength is below the force it receives when catching the fall.
I hope you inform yourself much better when informing in such a risky topic
If a man has a cause he can stay up for days doing that.
As safe as it gets = quite dangerous
True, as Andy Kirkpatrick says in the introduction of his blog where he explains how he climbs rope solo: Don't do it.
I'd rather do this than trust those creepy auto belay devices 😁
Haha, yeah it's funny how the sense of control can influence our feelings :)
@@AmirNickname 😁
Don't do this. Rather make friends than die alone.
Words to live by! Still, it's helped me greatly to know these techniques so I'm really grateful I've learned them from Gerke!
Funnily enough, my climbing accidents have been with friends, and NOT while lead rope soloing. Go figure.
The fact is that in LRS everything is your responsibility and you are forced to be 100% in control and to double-check everything; that can paradoxically result in more safety, kind of like when you're free soloing: you are super focused.
The truth is that when climbing you are in danger regardless of the method you use.
Your use of the asap is completely pointless as it’s placed below the belay device … thus it can be forced down the rope in the event of a failing gri gri .
I don't quite understand what you mean. When I've tested a simulated gri gri failure the asap worked fine. But I'm not trying to convince you! Don't use this system as you're clearly not comfortable with it 👍🏽
You just don’t
I do not trust someone who doesn't use the helmet sorry
Yes always wear a helmet when sport climbing! We were filming all day and forgot the helmet a few times, my bad.
By the way, I suggest you don't blindly trust random people on the internet - regardless of whether or not they wear a helmet in a video :p