PTR 91 vs HK 91
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- This is a table top review and comparison of the PTR 91 and the HK 91. This video will move through a point by point comparison of the two rifles and also touch on some of the collectible aspects of the HK91 and how they both relate the the original G3.
Since the tooling for the PTR 91 originates from Portugal, you may be interested in its history there. Portugal was engaged in war against insurgents in its colonies from 1961 to 1974. When hostilities started, Portugal did not have an adequate weapon for the confrontation ahead, since the rebels (originally supported by the US) later by the communist block had superior small firearms, namely AK47. Due to the embargo imposed by the US and most of Portugal NATO's allies, the government had many difficulties in purchasing a new weapon for its troops. Finally, Germany agreed to sell the licence to produce the G3 to Portugal, which started its production. The weapon still serves the Portuguese army to this day (2018 will probably see it being replaced). Portugal produced over 500 000 of these weapons and served the army during the colonial wars in Angola, Mozambique, Guine Bissau, East Timor, etc. Hope this sheds a bit more light on the weapons history
thank you for this!
Thanks for the info, very neat
NATO was never an Allie to anyone. Garbage organization.
2024 and Portugal still uses it. The G3 will never die :D
@@shockwave6213 , yes, the portuguese marines, the Fuzileiros, they still with the modernized version of the former G3.
I own a PTR GI. Welder by trade and got to say the welding on my rifle is top notch. accuracy and function is also good. 500 rds fired
The G3 is a great piece of German engineering. Everything looks rock solid and fits snugly. And its heavy. I had to carry it around a lot in my military service. After a 20 miles march, its no fun to carry it over the shoulder. Bought one for myself 40 years later for nostalgic reasons. Reloading the ammo from the G3 was never intended. Upon shooting spent cases are dirtied on the outside by the gases and deformed since the metal is pressed into the retaining grooves of the chamber. The gun is a blow back, a design typically found on weapons made by Heckler & Koch.
Yet still great.
I have the PTR 91 GI without the welded rail, the original wood furniture as well as a couple sets of the O.D. polymer furniture, H&K Stanang claw mount converted to 1913 rail (with Vortex Viper 1-4 scope) , surplus leather sling, a couple of issue cleaning kits and original bayonet, I also added the bayonet receiver. This is my favorite rifle above the others I have.
How reliable Joe? I really want one and it will be my main rifle. I appreciate your feed back
dcox5555 very reliable, it eats what ever I feed it with no problems.
I have both and the PTR is as good as the HK91 IMO. May GHWB rot in hell
he thought that would get him reelected .....not!
Stefano Dogg He died yesterday!
@Shamir Roshni Hope he's liking Satan's rod...
I have owned a hk-91 and have owned 5ish ptr91s over the years from the 3 different companies that have made them. The only real difference I saw was the action on the actual HK was supernaturally smooth, as if the action was gliding on bearings. The ptrs in comparison weren't gritty or unsmooth per say, but their action was jerky and almost staged like the slide on a dual nested guide rod spring on a compact or semi compact handgun. So working the action on the HK was easier, seemed lighter, and made for slightly faster reloads. Im not sure why. But it would be great if one could swap out the ptr springs or whatever parts to make the ptrs as smooth as the HKs. All the rifles in question were new or near new, so being "broken in" isnt a variable and all rifles in question were lubricated the same with the same lubricant.
Don’t forget Reagan for fucking us out of new machine gun ownership! 🖕
We had a3 g3 and a4 g3 in the army, made by ELVO in Greece. Some minor differences but pretty much the same, trigger unit was with a pin, the bipod ends were sitting flush with the forearm, the bayonet was different sat in the same place as yours but it didn’t have that pin in the bottom it sat in the tube, flush hider the same but with a notch in the front where the spine of the bayonet would sit to help unscrew it, the sling the same on the forward end but on the stock end it had a metal clip. Very reliable guns. The one variant we had H&K 11 had a reinforced upper, a bit better but the same trigger unit, beefier stock, removable barrel, and almost double the weight of the normal g3 a3
Great video.I bought a PTR 3 years ago and LOVE IT!
I’m 6’4” so I bought the 1-1/2” extension buttplate from HK, installed it and it fit PERFECTLY for a Much better eye relief for the Nikon M308 scope I installed.
I understand these PTR’s are “battle” rifles and I’m happy w/mine shooting 1-1/2” groups all day.I used to compete in DCM/CMP Highpower Matches with an S/A SuperMatch M1A......which was DEADLY out to our 600 yd targets w/peep sights.That rifle is NOT this rifle.
They’re 2 totally different designs and I don’t compete anymore.
I’m Extremely Happy w/my PTR,& I’ve promoted it to all of my shooting buddies.
Thank You again for posting this video.
It was very helpful and insightful.
Hope you and your loved ones have a GREAT 2020!!!
Thank You,
Sincerely,
Jeff D.
is there away to make charging the rifle easier, ive had a stroke and charging is now a problem with my left hand and arm any advise would be much appreciated, thank you.
The original FBP G3A3 M/61 were the front liners against communism in Africa. Those weapons fought in 3 fronts over 13 years against the warsaw pact supported forces and at the same time against the western countries (strangely, allies and NATO partners) supported forces. In recent years a lot of those weapons have been appearing in Sudan and other obscure places.
Happy to see their legacy carried over.
The FAL was more used in Rhodesia than the G3. The G3 was to supplement shortages of FALs in some units.
@@Lonewolf6565 Nelson was talking about portuguese colonial wars in Mozambique, Angola and Guine Bissau
Is it absolutely impossible to reload the shells? I just got an hk 91, first gun and am considering getting reloading tools
Funny back in the 80's the first gun i ever shot when i was 7 years old my dad had a hk-91 with a bipod that was the first gun i ever shot and thats when i fell in love with guns my dad starting me at that age made me a better person with knowledge of firearm safety and respect for the gun you are shooting
Nice review, I'm a big fan of the 91 and bought my first one back in the mid 80s.
Absolutely the best, most informative vid on the 91 that I've ever seen. Been a fan of the PTR 91 for a while, and looking for a 16in carbine with wood, the 91kurtz for a while now. Lust!!
My HK had a hole in the charging handle. I learned to hang a leather string looped through it to make charging faster and easier.
That's one of the most cursed things I've ever hear
@@brandonrasmussen6692 I literally do this as well.
Picked up a JLD PTR91 thanks to this video..I took it apart and stamped on the bolt HK.. o already read up on it but wasn't 100 % but now I am. Paid 800, the guy didn't know what he had
one hell of a crash coarse education on the hk91 thank you ! i watched all 30min
Per the latest from PTR, if the flash hider has wrench flats on it, then it is a new US made part and has 5/8x24 threads. The earlier ones did not have wrench flats and were the metric 15x1RH because they were original W. German surplus flash hiders.
S = Sicher (Safety) E = Eingeschoss (Single Shot) F = Feuerstoss (fire breathing dragon :) This trigger group is an actual G3 part used on PTRs just like many other parts.
Or in English...Safe, Economy, FUN :-)
S is "sicher", or safe; E is "einzelfeuer", as you said, and F is "Feuerstoß", literally translating to "burst".
Doesnt mean it fires bursts, but more that youre supposed to fire bursts with it. No spray and pray.
My PTR91 came with the HK furniture. I was very surprised how this gun damages the casing to the point where no reloading of the brass is an option. Oh and the brass is ejected very far from the shooter!
I only shoot steel cased .308 out of my PTR-91, just because of what you describe. I can reload the brass from rounds fired from my m1a with no problem. I just don't bother anymore with this cruncher
Where did you buy yours?
Curious, I reload my PTR brass. But I only shoot that bass only through my PTR.
Absolutely great video, extremely informative. Thanks
Nice work. Great comparison and background info on both rifles.
The thin handguard, used to be called the tropical handguard, gets really hot really fast. The triangular guard is much more comfortable during sustained fire.
I have a PTR 91 great weapon never worked with a HK91 but i can say the PTR is a BEAST will shoot anything. put 4500 rounds through it and no issues before cleaning it.
I own the HK SR9 and LOVE IT!
Great video!! Made my mind up I was on the fence but I’m getting one! They are awesome battle rifle!!!! Thanks man!
@dcox -PTR is not a drug free work place. You'll be surprised. You'd think that people making guns would need to be drug screened by law, but they don't. They build your guns.
@@larryfisher8332 ok and?
@@mulisha0351 If you don't mind having your gun made by someone high or maybe after a few shots. The quality and care isn't there. PTR doesn't care about its employees and that how they treat the guns when the build it. If that's the type of firearm that you want, I guess that it's okay then.
Legalized all drugs, don't like your job quit, and all gun laws are infringements. Fixed it for you.
@@bussiboibrian6058 Quit? Why? I don't work there. Legalization of drugs is stupid too.
Take a shot every time he says "go ahead".
Thanks for the comparison.
You can reload the HK91/G3, I have been doing so for 30 years and have used it for hunting with great success. All you need is the HK Port Buffer that attaches to the top of the rifle and connects to the ejection port. He has one on his HK in this video. It also reduces, slightly, how far the brass is thrown off to your right. I put a tarp or moving blanket just off to my right to catch my fired cases so I have less to look for. HK also makes a brass catcher, I have one and it also works well but it can slightly ding up your brass. I found that 150gr to 165gr bullets work very well. For deer, it is hard to beat the 165gr Nosler Ballistic tips. Reloader 15 powder and 4064 powder are good performers. I like CCI or Federal Gold Match primers. It will help if you measure your case necks and ensure that they are all fairly uniform in length. I also like to use a Lee Factory Crimp Die as a last step. Due to how this weapon recoils the tips of the bullets will get smacked inside your magazine. If your case neck is not tight the bullets can be pressed slightly down into the case and this can cause changes in pressure upon firing. Use the same brand of brass. Have them all trimmed to the same length and then seat and use the Lee factory crimp die to ensure that each bullet is retained under a uniform tightness. This will keep your bullets from moving under recoil and you should find good groupings. Many have told me that they can't get good accuracy out of their PTR or HK91. I found that most will fire accurately but the users are not use to the trigger and or they are using poor ammo. With my handloads I can group on 2 inches or less at 200 yards. At 100 yards I generally find it groups around an inch and a half. 300 yards I am normally in the 2.5 inch range. I have shot lots of groups over 30 years that are half of this size using reloads that are on par with benchrest quality, but generally you can get most of these HK/PTRs to shoot like mine with a little effort in tuning your handloads to the rifle. You will gain velocity with your handloads as well compared to off the shelf factory ammo. When checking your primers for signs of pressure, don't freak out over flat primers at first glance. They generally will look flat compared to a bolt action. The cases are blown back into the bolt face rather hard during the ejection process so it will tend to flatten the primers. What you need to look at carefully is the roundness of the shoulder of the primers. If they are really round your pressure is probably fine. If they are more flat to square then you have high pressure. Follow your reloading books and use a chronograph to ensure you are not loading to hot. Happy shooting.
Hey Mark, I have come across this video I recently inherited the green one you are displaying here at the bottom do you know where I can find replacement parts for it?
Great review Marksman and very informative. You mentioned PTR made thier 91's on original HK tooling. Does anyone know if the PTR 9ct models (MP5 Clone) are made on HK tooling as well?
The magazines are steel and aluminum.
Plain parkerized mag is steel and the painted ribbed mag is aluminum.
I have a 91 with almost every accessory but the bayonet. Damn!
Good vid...I can never remember what the little clip on the left forearm is for?
I had a chance to buy an original preban HK91, but couldnt afford it at that time. Im still kicking myself in the ass for not buying it, and that was back in 1997.
Outstanding video review. Thanks for posting. 👍
Ptr’s tooling is originally from Portugal who produced rifles under license.
Just bought a PTR91 and get to pick it up on the 11th. I can't wait to fire it!
Great review! Thanks a lot, Chris
S = Sicher = Safe
E = Einzelfeuer = Single Shot
F = Feuerstoß = Burst Fire
Some also say F = Frieden = Peace 😅
Great Job, I have owned plenty HK's and your information is perfect . It was Arlington VA. Home of the Pentagon.
I have both the ptr is good
But my favorite is the hk91
Great video and great pieces
My PTR91GI has 5/8x24 threads. I put a Strike J-comp V2 on it. It cuts the flash down, reduces recoil 60% and compensates for muzzle rise.
The standing joke in the Norwegian Military was that F stood for family.
Fantastic video. Extremely in depth. A+!!
The "F" on the safety means "Feuerstoß" which could be translated by "burst of fire". So it is simply the german military term for "full auto".
By the way, I always found the reassembly easier when the stock was collapsed, so the two studs worked as a kind of guidance when you put the buttstock back in place.
I always thought "Dauerfeuer" ie "continuous fire" was full auto until i saw these ptr91s. 🤔
Does the PTR-91 have the same number of chamber flutes as the HK-91/G3?
Cool video
Great video. Very interested and informative.
What is the best lubricant for the HK91 ?
Love my ptr Gi
Mine is a Hk Ptr 91 ..mixture of both A4
Very nice 👍🏻♥
you would never adjust the front sight tip for windage, only elevation.
Very well done video Marksman.....!!! BTW where can find a scope mount that you showed in the video. Please reply back and let me know. Thanks....!!!
the A4 Stock was called by the chilean navy and army the cheek cutter or the shaver because some soldiers had cuts in their faces while firing the rifle
That's a 5/8 thread pitch on the PTR. The giveaway is the flat spots on the muzzle device for a wrench. That's ptr's 5/8 muzzle device.
No le entiendo nada pero se refiere al fucil automático g3 calle 7.62x51 mm tanto culata fija como culata retráctil
Thanks very informative.
Very nice video. Thanks.
Very Nice Review! Well done! I just subscribed!
Other visible difference is that normaly G3 got snap ring barrel in order to accommodate granade devices,yeah right they have different minimal features but delivers the same power being the same gun..even in this case some older HK 91 came with the support for granade devices, so as i said other than one being a full auto capable rifle and the other semi auto only..theres no much difference left between g3 and hk 91..
Really great review, once it’s sped up 1.75 times ha. But honestly, was a good review video.
S - Save
E - Economy
F - Fun
"Family" we used to say in Norway. A bit morbid perhaps 🙂
F- Frieden (Peace) in German. 😁
Have you ever seen a HK91 with a polygonal rifled barrel?
GREAT VIDEO..THANKS
"Nice clean break"?
I own a PTR and a HK and those are the WORST triggers in a battle rifle. And I'm including the FAL on that mix.
M-14 hands down for trigger.
Yeah my dog could hear the creep in that trigger and he's been dead and buried in the back yard for 5 years.
@@newdefsys exactly
Easy enough to get fixed, dont be so cheap!
I would agree the HK 91 trigger isn’t anything to write home about but the FAL is much better. Yes the M14 has a great trigger but it’s absolutely worthless in full auto. The FAL and HK 91 are much better in full auto.
@@craigthescott5074 NONE of those rifles mentioned is worth shit in full-auto.
I could of had an hk91 in the mid 80s. my great grandfathers model 94 went thru a flood. took it to a gunsmith to get it refinished. when it was done smith offered to trade hk91 for it. I promised my dad I would never get rid of 94. I wanted to trade so bad.
My Dad had a HK93 in the late-1970s through the mid-1990s. Had every accessory. Get a PTR-GI, it really is basically the same thing, and now you can have that and that lovely model 94, which is irreplaceable.
@@christophers.8553 I did get a GI ptr. a few years ago. I am very happy with it
Other than Full-Auto capabilities and few "irrelevant " differences the military G3,HK 91 is basically the same gun..people get all crazy about full auto,but in several countries where their militaries issue G3's,fn fal's etc,the full auto is disabled cause its not precise and purely wast of ammo..when those countries got licensed by HK to produce their own g3's domestically like Portugal,Malaysia,Pakistan etc each one use to put their peculiarities and differences on their homemade g3's..but overall is the same gun..
what the metal tab for on left side of handguard?
i love this thing semi shooter med range
you didn't mention the heavy bipod that attaches to the receiver in front of the mag, using the thin fore end. just FYI
What does IBLU mean on my HK91?
the ptr has the same furniture as the HK
I have the ptr91 and a Zenith mp5
Slytiger I love my ptr but it's hefty as hell... not trying to complain though. It is a semi-auto .308 after all. Do you like your Zenith?
Capt Trdl Like binary?
Señor Roller-Lock though..... very nice pair brother
Nobody cares it
Can you put the HK bayonet on the PTR?
I would like to know this as well!!!
The HK 91 is what I own.
You attached the bipod backwards. The feet should be flush with the hand-guard not perpendicular to it.
Good stuff. Any chance of getting ahold of the mp5 and its clones? I'd also like to see some M1 Carbines if you have access to any.
They (PTR) are making mp5's now I think. Contact them direct.
Great overview, but lose the "go ahead" for every other sentence.
I bought a PTR just because they use Portuguese tooling. Portugal Caralho!!!!!!! My father had a portuguese G3 in Angola and Mozambique
Henri Lopes... man, I bet he has some stories . Tell him thanks for holding the line. I have a PTR 32 and it’s excellent .
Então e a desmontagem da cabeça , e do percutor!!!! A G3 A3, foi a minha "namorada" durante 36 meses...
Does anybody know if the Zenith Z41 is a better rifle than the PTR 91 ??????
That HK collapsible stock looks like it's real hard on the shoulder...
Couch Warrior and with the recoil on these...haha. But it does look good.
It’s pretty brutal . The G3 I NATO qualified on was a an A4 from an airborne unit. It looks cool for about the first five rounds . Then it’s pretty hateful. I had no problem during qualifications, but it “left a mark” .
The new west German army didn’t even get a license from FN to domestically produce the FAL/G1 which was their primary interest. So they found an alternative in the CETME.
So in terms of quality of materials how far off is the PTR from the original HK that you have
I know that the GI's from a year ago (even 5 months ago) quality is better than the new GI's quality. Now the quality that I'm taking about is just visual. As far as well put together it is that hasn't changed. In fact from that standpoint that part of the gun is probably better than the GI's of a year ago.
I have the PTR squad 91 (16 inch barrel). Quality of the finish and build are very high, it is very accurate and reliable. I have only had it for a couple years but have had zero issues. My century 93 in 556 has had a few issues which is why I went for the more expensive PTR.
I'm glad that you are happy with your guns. I was just talking about the quality of the PTR GI as of late. The gun itself is very well built. It's the older parts, the plastics look terrible. The price went up, while the quality decreased. Now the price went up everywhere though.
Larry Fisher 👍🏼
Kerry Lyles 👍🏼
Any ideas on where I could find a sold stock I have the collapseable stock and don’t like it
hkpartsnet.
HK parts, RTG parts, Numrich....
To put a bayonet on the PTR91 you have to buy an adapter.
Why are you spending so much time on the furniture? Its all interchangeable, you could have swapped what was on each rifle and has nothing to do with the comparison of the two firearms. Your's is an HK 91 A3, local shop had one w/bipod for $749 in 1984, still kicking my self for not buying it...
He's comparing the primary features of each rifle when you buy them separately in their default configuration. You should expect anyone to do the same when they are comparing two of the same rifle pattern under the same machining equipment. Bottom line is it has everything to do with the comparison of the two rifles.
I hear new names for that weapon every month it seems like... I know it as AG3
It's not a gas piston... It's a push rod and buffer all in one.
Hello from Indy
FAL & G3 looks like somebody copied someone.
Fal 1956 G3 1964
If you are saying the rifles are similar, I cannot agree with you at all. The FAL is gas operated. The G3 has no gas system at all, it is delayed roller lock recoil operated. The FAL is longer. The sights are totally different. They both fire the 7.62 Nato, and were both non Comm Bloc battle rifles from the same era, but that's about it. I have had the good fortune to fire both. Oh, they do weigh about the same, well over 9 pounds without accessories, which is heavy if you have to hike with a full combat load day after day.
@@MartyInLa ;The FN Fal is much better and more accurate, he has won all NATO sniper competitions, he is lighter, why do you believe that more than 90 countries buy the FN Fal, he is still one of the best rifles fighting, the Kurds beat the Taliban with Fn Fal, I recognize and admire the German engineering, but in light armament the Belgians are much stronger, the Russians defeated the Germans with the rifle Belgian Nagant, in the war of Korea the FN 49 was like the best rifle of this war, in Vietnam the Australian and New Zealand massacred the communists of the Viet Cong, the English, the Israelis, nothing but the victory of FN Fal, The Hkg3 is a copy, this rifle is illegal, Germany could no longer build weapons, it diverted the law with the complicity of their friend Franco & Salazar friends of Hitler. Belgium had refused a license to manufacture the Fal a Germany primer two war the refusal was to justify, Belgium has collected thousands of German women and children, the Americans had decided to let them starve, a lot of Germans should learn history? Chancellor Merkel has also declared that Belgium was the first country to have reached out to the Germans, our cousins are ungrateful because they are ignorant of history. (I am a veteran sniper with a FN Fal)
@@hansstrouf Is English your first language? If not, nice. If it _is,_ please go retake basic 1st grade writing classes. Just a tip: use periods more often.
Witch is better?
Ptr 91
Thompson Brian White Donald Hernandez Helen
At the Tulsa gun show the rate for an HK 91 = 4K. That collapsible stock 1k, assuming you find one same with 30mm Claw mounts. The PTR rail system works with standard mounts but zeroing the rifle isn’t seamless.
Germans have the best engineers in the world!
Well, not $800-$1000 anymore! Lol. Mine was like $1600 out the door in early 2023
4:10 now PTR's are going for $1.200 to $1.500.
In 1979 i bought a brand new Hk-91 for $340.😂
You sound like Tobias from arrested development
Why is everything so ridiculously expensive at your shop last time I was in there you guys had Ruger 10/22 Takedown model for like $400 you can get one for almost half that price pretty much everywhere else
We had a Mossy Oak Takedown for $299.00, one with a stainless barrel for $349.95 and one with a muzzle break for $359.95. I just looked and every online site from Bud's to Sportsman's guide has them for $300-$400... Now, the non-Takedown models, yes, are about half of that. All of our standard 10/22's are priced between $200-$300. Thanks for watching and I hope to see you in the store sometime again.
I can tell he's gone through a good deal of Speech Therapy. Or Grown out of it. But he definitely has a twinge of a Speech Impediment. "Heat Sheiwding." He doesn't even have a Noticeable Accent, which I can usually always pick up on.
Great Video though. Good Info. I'm about to get C308.
lmao what
@@Niafi11 thats like the speech impeded PTR
And what great courage he must have to make a long, technical video with a lot of speaking in it in order to share his knowledge with us.
The G3 and later the HK91 are among the best rifles ever made. The pre-ban Helenic Arms EBO SAR 8 is the best of all the HK91 clones (if one can even call it a clone) and was imported and sold by Springfield Armoury. It is superior to a PTR91 or any other clones. It was made in Greece on HK tooling with HK engineers and is in reality an HK91 in every way including a cold hammer forged barrel, except for the identity stamping. All HK91 parts fit perfectly and it has the same accuracy and quality precision as the HK91. It operates perfectly out of the box unlike clones. For those who cannot afford a HK91, the Hellenic Arms EBO SAR 8 made in Greece is the exact same thing. This rifle is an in engineering marvel in its design. It can be disassembled and assembled easily with no tools. This amazing rifle is a joy to shoot and a one inch group at 100 yards with military ball ammo is possible.