Just wanted to pop in and say congratulations on the well deserved growth of your channel. Almost 4K views after just a day or two! Thanks for the content and have a great day. I always tune to -5.
For mids and highs I always use 0 db of overlap. I prefer have the comfort of knowing that I’m not distorting whatever than it be a little bit louder. I personally like how 5 db of overlap sounds on Sub amps. If 5 db isn’t loud enough than I think the equipment should be upgraded instead of adding even more overlap
Me too. 3-5db. It easy to hear and adjust the deff. freq hz of the lpf. Either lows or hard. If isn’t loud enough? Then upgrade the sub or the amp. It cant overlap or clipping if you did not over tha gain and the volume headunit.
You are absolutely right. I tried putting over lap and the amp doesn't like it because because mids and high are more dynamic and taxing to the amps because mid and tweeters tend to produce less impedence than a sub woofer. 3 to 6 db to me is good for the subwoofer since some sound have little bass and it balance up nicely. Also the sub amp have a bass knob and clip light so you can tailor the bass to suit.
Very impressed with your videos. I belive you have about the perfect balance between helping understanding the basics of how it works, and not so complex one might be lost. Anyone lost in your videos really shouldn't be messing with anything, rather be due to safety or damaging equipment. Anyway doing a great job
Thank you. I’ve been watching your videos and learning a lot. You’re laying down facts and math in a super easy to understand format. Props. I have been teaching myself about car audio through RUclips and experience working on my own cars through the years. Installation is only half the battle. You’ve been the most informative when it comes to the adjustments on amps, learning about waveforms, and box building. You are awesome, and I really want your channel to continue to grow. ❤🔊
Great vid! Ive been running a -3DB overlap on my 12” sub but am in the process of upgrading to a beefier sub. going from a D4 sub wired at 2 ohms to a D2 sub wiring it at 1 ohm so I can extract 1200 rms output from my amp where currently im “only” getting 800 rms with the D2 12” (of course then theres battling impedance rise). since I have to re-tune I’ve been wanting to try -5DB. I did know the basic principle behind gain overlap and music recording levels but didn’t fully understand it 100% so thank you for the easy to understand explanation! I learned some things also! Now with the upgrades and -5DB tune hopefully i will be satisfied with the new bass output (at least for a while lol).
I personally run -7.5db overlap on subs and 0db on mids and highs I have a mmats hifi 4250d the 4 channel is an absolute beast and overpowers my speakers more than double. I've had this same setup for years.
Great explanation Justin. I also don't care for the name "gain overlap". It's accurate but when thinking in layman's terms, it's confusing. That said, I get it! Kinda funny as I've been setting up audio systems for years. My man work now is around pro audio systems. We don't want any distortion so I'm staying far away from any "overlap". Like you pointed out, if we need it to be louder you need to pay for more power and speakers that can use that power.
Thats why I love my Phoenix gold ti1300.1 full range amp. It's has 3 different frequency knobs that are + or - 6db to really fine tune your speakers or subs.
I use 0 DB for SQ set up, but... I will leave just a little room on the volume of the head unit. My HU for example tops out at "62" of its volume level, and can play this with 0 distortion output. When setting my gains, I will put the volume to "55". I typically don't turn the volume over "50" on the HU, but if I wanted I could crank the volume beyond what I would ever want with confidence that I am not overdriving my speakers.
@@DIYAudioGuy I'm with you for most people. Lol. I usually listen to mine at 98% full tilt and the slight voltage drop will try to induce clipping on my subs after some hard listening. But for 95% of people 10 db overlap gets them all the volume they will ever need.
You are so Awesome!!!!!! I have that same DD1+ and for Speakers, specially those JL Auduo C7 speakers I have on my ford flex, I have the gain set at 0 db nothing higher just to make sure I get the cleanest signal coming out if the speakers, as for the subwoofer, I just use a -5DB overlap. Anything higher on a smaller amp and I would just consider getting a higher powered amp instead of adding a stronger distortion signal to the subwoofer.
Before I knew about Overlap, I regulated it with 0db of overlap, as my sound system does not have a car radio, but a Bluetooth receiver from Qualcomm to use with the smartphone, I used a tone generator app to adjust the gain, but it always stayed with very low volume, using mathematics to calculate the power it only delivered about 60w (10%) so I had the brilliant idea of choosing the songs with the strongest bass from my spotify playlist (because spotify has a volume normalizer and it is standard for all devices, making the use of any smartphone safe) and regulate based on them, the cool part is that today I understand overlap well to make some tests and incredibly I regulated my system like this and resulted in +10db of overlap... adjusted by intuition without knowledge. And I found that tone generator apps with the smartphone at maximum volume is equivalent to -6db
Great video. Was reading on some forums about allowing the amp to soft clip allowing for a little bit of flatness on the top of the sine wave. I'll try setting the gain at -5d and then see how the sine wave looks at -0db. I may make a slight adjustment depending on how it looks. Hopefully a small adjustment will get me where I want to be.
I love the technical videos and explanations. I'm only a few months into the car audio hobby and learning loads of information I didn't bother to learn back in HS or college. The part I'm having a hard time understanding is the whole "amplifying a distorted signal will amplify the distortion". I definitely see why some people would make that statement, but I don't see the science behind the statement. My reasoning is that 1) an amplifier first breaks the signal into a square wave, which turns on/off on the MOSFETs via a drive chip and this signal is amplified. Then 2) on the output side of the amp the signal is then rectified and back into a sine wave via the pos and neg power rails... So is it not the square wave that is amplified in an amplifier? I think it was barevids (the amplifier repair guy) that did a video where he injected a pure square wave into an amplifier, and watched it come out at the speaker terminals in a nice clean sine wave...
That was an interesting video from barevids. Sounds like it's due to the low pass filter on a sub amp - Basically what makes a square wave is a lot of high frequency components that get filtered out by a sub amp (and he says that in the video, but it's a well-known phenomenon amongst electrical engineers who will tell you that fact if you so much as look at a square object in the room). If you have no filtering (or a very high bandwidth bandpass filter) on your amp, then the statement "garbage in, garbage out" still applies - squarewave in would come out as an amplified square wave. This especially applies to some of these new full bridge bass amps that are full-range. My SFB-5k has a low pass filter that goes up to 20khz. If you left it set there you'd get a square wave out (or as close to one as you could get with that range). The good news is that you can safely use aggressive gain overlap on bass amps with properly set filtering.
The record level depends on the music. I have seen purchased factory recorded music that was clipped from the studio. Bass heavy music is very often at 0db or clipped. Most metal albums when check are fully clipped from the studio.
I was going to include a little bit about the loudness wars, but It really made the video a little bit too long. Some of this stuff is not just clipped, they apply compression to it so there are no dynamics, it really kills the sound quality.
I concur, knowing your music files/ sources is more important than overlap. Compression and limiters encoded into audio sources will mess with the overall sound and overlap turns into an EQ which may or may not distort. I use 0db tests for everything HU/amps/mids/highs/subs, then play around with actual post-EQ / DSP + mic and if needed (personal preference) bump up the bass a little.
@@dreci3001 Odd, because you're effectively negating your own work if you do post-EQ adjustments that do any form of addition to pre-EQ adjusting. If you're in the boat of doing things "up to the clipping point", then make an EQ alteration which adds to output, you've entered into the realm of clipping (albeit ever-so slightly). A multimeter could even see the difference between your output pre & post EQ alterations. _Personally,_ I prefer to set up the equalization to where I know it'll sound great, then raise gains "to preference, for SQ" or "to the clipping point, for SPL", then dial down to DSP+mic readings. That way, I'm taking away from something that's already too loud rather than adding to something that's not loud enough.
@@RAW_Reality I try and stay away from clipping. Maybe I didn't write it right. I always try to spare amps. I go with the DMM and scope piece by piece in the signal chain several times as well as a mic to have an overview. I also do this to the DSP. I set EQs then measure again. I do some math and set amp gains last, based on the provided figures. Since cabin gain is very pronounced in cars, I EQ the peaks, then bump the overall level, while measuring again. Any music that enters my car is processed with software, Im a bit old school unless it's FM and no streaming services.
I use -10db and my system sounds good. For the people saying it’s odd, a lot of the music on Spotify, pandora, Apple Music and so on are recorded at that db level. You could use a -10 to -15 db level if you listen to mainstream music since that’s what they are recorded at. If you listen to modified music like decaf then go lower. But yes there will be distortion with gain overlap but a little distortion is not bad. With 0db some of the songs are going to be much lower and then if you want it to be louder you going to distort it. But if you tune with a -10db you don’t have to raise the bass, you’ll just cut which is better than to boost if that makes since. I always tune with 40hz -10db and I’ve never blown a speaker or nothing.
@@DIYAudioGuy I have a question about this tho. When you tune everything zeroed out. The sub level is on zero or half way. I always go half way and I just decrease the bass for songs and increase when some songs need it but never go all the way up
@@JesusSoto-rs4jc I always tune it with my subwoofer level on my head unit all the way up. Then it's never enough base with the sublevel turned down, so the sublevel usually just stays all the way up. The solution to that is bigger subwoofers with more power
Another great video , I appreciate it , Been out the game for a long time , so you say Odb test tone for head unit and anything between HU and amp. I have a eq and I take it that should be set to flat settings as well? Thank you for your time
Yep, everything should be flat. The only exception is if you have a bass level control on the HU/EQ/AMP. Then after you have the gain set you adjust the EQ by cutting frequencies that are to loud. Boost is a last resort.
As a car audio newbie, I've been trying to just take in what info I can on the subject. I'm not confident in what I'm doing with my settings, but with my subwoofer now hooked up, I'm actually blown away with how awesome my system sounds now!! I plan to ask around and see if I know someone with an Ocilloscope or other equipment. ***next up after my coffee is to quiet down that license plate! 😆 🤣 😂
With the DD1 you set "overlap" by using a different test tone. The second set of tones that comes with the DD1+ is a -15 db track and you can fine tune the "overlap". The dd1+ also has a voltage display.
Hey, I mentioned this as a possible topic and a video popped up! Cool... I generally use -2.5 db for the full range amps and -7.5 db for the subs. Although based on this I might try -10 db on the subs when I upgrade my sub amp. 400 watts is not enough!!!
Yeah, I was already trying to figure out the script when you commented. Comments like that are always very useful, gives me the signal I need to go ahead and hit record.
I don't like overlapping not even 3dB, If i need to power 100w RMS speaker i would only give 90w and pefer 120W RMS amp of higer power. So that amp will run clean and speaker would be stress free.
I used to feel the exact same may. After playing around with the SMD AMM-1 and seeing what real time power looks like I would be comfortable with 10 DB of overlap most of the time.
Do I have to set my subwoofer level on the HeadUnit or leave it flat? For example the subwoofer level max is 14 I have it set at 7 then I find my clipping point and set the gain
I find the suggestion of running gain overlap a bit odd, especially as much as 10db. An overlap of 3db means that at full tilt, you have 50% signal distortion! This is something I've played around with in the past and I'm now in the 0db of overlap camp. If you need to run overlap to hit the volume you desire, you're better off just getting more subs, a bigger amp, more efficient speakers, etc because any more SPL you get is made up of exclusively distortion. Overlap does not change your max clean SPL.
Hello sir love the videos . I set my subwoofer amp gain with a 40hz -5db test tone , when I set my LPF I should use 80hz -0db or -5db? Thank you for your time
Those SMD DD 1+ look so awesome I always thought about getting one, being a electrician I like different meters and elec tools. I jus don't quit understand how if you turn your gain up to when the distortion light comes on then set the overlap it's not distorted. Is it because once the light comes on and instead of backing it down til it goes off while pushing overlap with the distortion light on, it automatically does the calculation for you? Would be super awesome if they made a DD1++ with an ociliscope on the screen as well 🤯 💯
Music is dynamic, some parts are loud some parts are quiet. Plus music is not supposed to be recorded any louder than -5dbfs. So if you set the overlap to -5 DB you would get very little distortion. If you set the overlap to -10 you would get some distortion on the loudest parts.
@DIY Audio Guy awesome, it's so cool and so interesting learning how this all works. I been watching d amore engineering videos and everything is starting click now lol. What's jus a little confusing is how if your running your amp at say a 2ohm load your voltage is higher then at 1ohm. Like 1400w at 2ohms is 52.92v and at 1ohm 1400w is 37.42v
I have a question or questions. Do you have too get clipping before you set gain overlap? Or can you turn the amp up right bore clipping then adjust your gain overlap.. 2nd question adjusting radio , amps. Matrix plus, etc. Do you only use the rcas to test for clipping or does the prongs plug clip some where else??
@DIY Audio Guy one thing that no one talks about and i cant find any info about it, is: everyone talks and is woried about setting the perfect gain on the amp, but no one talks about if the speakers will handle that "perfect clean power" so, you have a 4x100 rms and a 1x1000rms amps... you set the gain perfectly, and there is zero distortion at max volume on both amps.. (setting with the method you do in this video) BUT all you have is 4x45wats rms speakers, and a 1x250Wrms subwoofer... wont the speakers and subwoofer clip like hell at that "max clean volume"???? so if you have 1000watt clean max power.. is it fine to put a 50w rms sub???? I REALLY DOUBT ABOUT IT.. i dont understand why people only talk about the max clean power an amp can deliver, and no one talks about the max clean power speakers can handle... its ridiculous... that is why i set the gains by hear.. 1-all gains to minimum, 2-put 0db test tone and start rasing hu volume till you hear speakers clip to find max clean volume on hu and back just one notch for piece of mind.. 3-start rasing amp gain till you start to hear speakers clip, and stop there. and you are set... for me that is the only way you find THE MAX CLEAN POWER A SPEAKER CAN HANDLE at 0db...! (and its free to do this method) what is your opinion on this?
You can use a multi-meter to set the amp at a level the speakers can handle. I mention that in a few of my videos. But the reality of it can be much more complicated, speaker power handling is wildly misunderstood. I am running 3.5" mids that are rated for 15 wrms with an amp tuned for 50 wrms. The reality is that they never see that much power on actual music, and the crossover keeps out the lows that cause over-excursion.
@@DIYAudioGuy for me the multimeter way is the worse one.. all the math into it goes wrong cause rms on amps and speakers in the real world, are never the ones you find in owners manual... try my method.. ( and make a video about it ahahah) keep up the great videos
@@sergiobisonte I would never suggest someone set gains by ear unless they are very good at hearing distortion. Using a multimeter to set gains is perfectly fine considering the fact the math isn't wrong. What could be wrong is the rms rating of your speakers or amps. You also have to factor in cabin gain which is a reason why people think they are feeding their subs more power then what they are rated for. Setting gains with an oscilloscope is one of the best ways to set gains
Hey there. Great video. However I've seen a video where someone shows that head unit clipping is eradicated when it passes through the (subwoofer) amp. Did you do check that out?
I’m still confused….I set my mono amps to -7.5 and it’s less bass than when it was close to -10db but I keep seeing that -10 and even -15 is louder yet less voltage. So with a larger negative db, (further away from 0) what do I do next to get all the voltage to hit RMS in the amp?…..it just doesn’t make sense once I follow the dd-1 instructions. It’s weaker. When I read the dd-1+ overlap, and measured with MM, I was almost half the voltage then when I was when gain was higher. What am I missing here??
This is quite interesting. I just set my gain using a 40 HZ 0db wav file and an oscilloscope after watching your video. Great job explaining things! When I did some research on my amp it says that the bass boost knob would increase it 0 to 6 DB but when you are looking at gain overlap on your SMD you are going all the way up to 10 DB. Would it be safe to turn up my bass boost knob on my amp? I am running a kicker 12-in Solo-Baric sub with a kicker cx800.1 amp.
So when doing gain overlap, are you turning the gain knob up or down? Thats one thing I've never understood. Every video says "just set the gain overlap" but doesn't explain how.
Out of the couple hundred comments so far I only found two that mention the bass knob... My question is this... If my bass knob (attenuator) is 12db would I be correct setting 0db at min on knob and 12db with knob at max (or actually 10db overlap seeing that's your preference from all of your comments) then I could adjust listening overlap on the fly with my knob? Never mind 😂 when my bass knob is at minimum I get NO bass😅 Fun video. Fun comments. Thanks for what you do!
so I used the dd1 today did the first phase turn everything down and bass knob up and volume knob to desired volume ,next play first track till I get distortion next hit read and switch to track 3 then set overlap I went with 7.5 then I noticed when I turned up my low pass the overlap jumped to 14.5 is this right
When you set the gains you want to have your crossover off. If you cannot turn your low pass filter off, then turn it to the highest setting. If you cannot turn your high pass filter off, then turn it to the lowest setting.
That is the max that the DD1+ is set to do. You can set it to literally anything if you use the formula. I would not recommend any more than 10db of overlap. You will get a lot of clipping with 15 db of overlap.
Can u do a video with a smd cc-1 for gain matching for some odd reason on test bench it works fine but when in a high voltage system it doesn't work i only askin u because i cant get answers anywhere else thanks in advance
@@DIYAudioGuy yea was askin cause idk whats goin on lol but i dont think its the cc-1 the problem is i think is the amp im using (sundown sfb 5k ) its puting out voltage at speaker output with out any rca input its weird i know and tried a taramps md8k and it does the same thing the cc-1 works perfectly on my Rockford prime 1200.1. NOONE WILL HELP OR CARE TO EXPLAIN WHATS GOIN ON
Soo in ac voltage i get 0.200v with no rca input and dc voltage heck it just keeps goin up i stopped it at 30.2v without rca input no clue what any of that means
In my novice opinion if you desire more power, buy a more powerful amp. Set the gains properly to ensure you’re never going to clip and damage your speakers. More money up front, less money long term. I don’t enjoy the constant track by track adjustments to my source volume and bass knob required to protect my speakers from an inadequately powered amp set with overlap to get the volume I desire.
Or you can just use the $90 O-scope and some math. Most of the SMD products are nothing more than extracting the math tax out of people. I am not hating on Steve, or people that can't do math. Just being real.
Is it possible to get an accurate reading from the handheld o scope on the head units rca outputs? I ask because i recently picked up the scope/multimeter that you show, an when connected to one of the head units speaker channels clipping occurs around 32 (volume) but when i connect to the rca preout even cranked all they way up its nowhere near clipping. Is this normal behavior for head unit's or am i possibly getting a bad connection or wrong setting on the scope?
That is not unusual at all. I'm told that most pioneer head unit units go all the way to full volume before the RCA's clip. I've only ever run Alpine head units in the RCAs will go up to one notch before full volume before they clip. I'll buy an RCA to speaker adapter, you can get them for just a couple bucks from Amazon, for testing RCA's. It's so much easier than trying to put the probes on or in the RCA plug.
@@DIYAudioGuy i tried finding some but couldn't find any that worked with scope/multimeter combo that you used. Of course what they sent looks a a little different from the one in your vid.
Nevermind i just fount it. Thanks for the tip. Next question being should i go off the rca since im only using amps or should i still set to the clipping point of the the headunit speaker outs
me- turn up the gain!! worried guy- WHAT? me- TURN UP THE GAIN!!! worried guy- RIGHT THERE?? me- TURN IT MORE!! me- YEAH!! RIGHT THERE! worried guy- BUT THATS ALL THE WAY yeah..... 😎
Excellent as always sir. You bring to light many things I wish I had known 20 years ago lol. One question though? When setting gain with a scope on say a subwoofer amp, does it make a difference if the amp is connected to a subwoofer or not? That is,will an amp clip sooner or later if connected to a load or does it make any practical difference?
It does make a difference, Sam over at barevids has a video showing the difference. I prefer to set things with speakers disconnected. Easier on the ears and easier on the equipment.
I’m more than happy to pay you the math tax for convenience. The dd1+ is a great bit of kit it is easy to use and I can set my ten amps and all crossovers/gains in my system in minutes instead of over an hour doing the math myself 🤣 rather spent time playing music than crunching numbers
@@DIYAudioGuy Must be me then. Anyway, I’m enjoying you’re channel. I’m a new subscriber. I was a professional installer in the 80s-90s. So I’m old school. So I like listening to what car audio has become since then.
This concept makes no sense to me outside of audio competitions. For the general user who just wants to listen and may even want to listen at high volume to have the signal ever clip makes no sense. You should just buy more powerful amps and speakers if you want it to go loud rather than risk clipping at any point. I would rather set my gains using 0db and just live with how loud it gets.
Gain overlap is plain bullshit and promotes the idiotic "loudness war". Music is supposed to be dynamic and properly mixed and mastered music will be very dynamic, so that the listeners can enjoy the sensation between the quiet and the loudest parts. Instead of employing "gain overlap" and end up listening to distortion (yes, distortion make it louder), invest in soundproofing solutions for your vehicle cockpit to lower the background noise to a level suitable for high fidelity music audition.
Get some good tools so you can set your gain: Oscilloscope: amzn.to/3hRy2oH DD1+: lddy.no/14doe
Just wanted to pop in and say congratulations on the well deserved growth of your channel. Almost 4K views after just a day or two! Thanks for the content and have a great day. I always tune to -5.
Thanks for popping in.
For mids and highs I always use 0 db of overlap. I prefer have the comfort of knowing that I’m not distorting whatever than it be a little bit louder. I personally like how 5 db of overlap sounds on Sub amps. If 5 db isn’t loud enough than I think the equipment should be upgraded instead of adding even more overlap
Absolutely.
Me too. 3-5db. It easy to hear and adjust the deff. freq hz of the lpf. Either lows or hard. If isn’t loud enough? Then upgrade the sub or the amp. It cant overlap or clipping if you did not over tha gain and the volume headunit.
You are absolutely right. I tried putting over lap and the amp doesn't like it because because mids and high are more dynamic and taxing to the amps because mid and tweeters tend to produce less impedence than a sub woofer. 3 to 6 db to me is good for the subwoofer since some sound have little bass and it balance up nicely. Also the sub amp have a bass knob and clip light so you can tailor the bass to suit.
0db for mids and highs. 0db with bass knob at 50% and clip monitor on dash
@@oscarishandsome5150 Where do you get a clip monitor?
Very impressed with your videos. I belive you have about the perfect balance between helping understanding the basics of how it works, and not so complex one might be lost. Anyone lost in your videos really shouldn't be messing with anything, rather be due to safety or damaging equipment. Anyway doing a great job
I appreciate that!
Love your technical videos, you explain things so clearly for everyone. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
Definitely does help.
I am an SQ guy and have set my Fosgate amps at 0 db with my Osciloscopes since 1992.. Still use my old school Trans Anna amps daily
Awesome!
Do you have any original Punch hd series amps ?? Loved those back in the day
Thank you. I’ve been watching your videos and learning a lot. You’re laying down facts and math in a super easy to understand format. Props. I have been teaching myself about car audio through RUclips and experience working on my own cars through the years. Installation is only half the battle. You’ve been the most informative when it comes to the adjustments on amps, learning about waveforms, and box building. You are awesome, and I really want your channel to continue to grow. ❤🔊
You are far to kind.
@@DIYAudioGuy
Should I turn off the subsonic?
Running a 3000w rms sub system. I use -7.5db because the music I listen to the bass is recorded anywhere from -13db to -7.5db
Perfect!
Great vid! Ive been running a -3DB overlap on my 12” sub but am in the process of upgrading to a beefier sub. going from a D4 sub wired at 2 ohms to a D2 sub wiring it at 1 ohm so I can extract 1200 rms output from my amp where currently im “only” getting 800 rms with the D2 12” (of course then theres battling impedance rise). since I have to re-tune I’ve been wanting to try -5DB. I did know the basic principle behind gain overlap and music recording levels but didn’t fully understand it 100% so thank you for the easy to understand explanation! I learned some things also! Now with the upgrades and -5DB tune hopefully i will be satisfied with the new bass output (at least for a while lol).
Awesome! Glad it was helpful.
I personally run -7.5db overlap on subs and 0db on mids and highs I have a mmats hifi 4250d the 4 channel is an absolute beast and overpowers my speakers more than double. I've had this same setup for years.
That sounds like a pretty good setup!
Great explanation Justin. I also don't care for the name "gain overlap". It's accurate but when thinking in layman's terms, it's confusing. That said, I get it! Kinda funny as I've been setting up audio systems for years. My man work now is around pro audio systems. We don't want any distortion so I'm staying far away from any "overlap". Like you pointed out, if we need it to be louder you need to pay for more power and speakers that can use that power.
Right!
You're teasing me with the math! Let's get all of it!
I never know how much math to give people! I'll start working on a video that really dives into what it means!
Thats why I love my Phoenix gold ti1300.1 full range amp. It's has 3 different frequency knobs that are + or - 6db to really fine tune your speakers or subs.
That sounds cool!
I use 0 DB for SQ set up, but... I will leave just a little room on the volume of the head unit. My HU for example tops out at "62" of its volume level, and can play this with 0 distortion output. When setting my gains, I will put the volume to "55". I typically don't turn the volume over "50" on the HU, but if I wanted I could crank the volume beyond what I would ever want with confidence that I am not overdriving my speakers.
I do pretty much the same thing.
Another great video,thanks man!! ✌️
Thanks!
I always do 0 db for mids and highs and negative 5 db for subs. Awesome video
I used to do that, but I am beginning to warm up to the idea of giving it some more juice.
@@DIYAudioGuy I'm with you for most people. Lol. I usually listen to mine at 98% full tilt and the slight voltage drop will try to induce clipping on my subs after some hard listening. But for 95% of people 10 db overlap gets them all the volume they will ever need.
I paid the MATH tax! Thanks for all the cool videos. I have learned a lot.
Nothing wrong with that.
You are so Awesome!!!!!! I have that same DD1+ and for Speakers, specially those JL Auduo C7 speakers I have on my ford flex, I have the gain set at 0 db nothing higher just to make sure I get the cleanest signal coming out if the speakers, as for the subwoofer, I just use a -5DB overlap. Anything higher on a smaller amp and I would just consider getting a higher powered amp instead of adding a stronger distortion signal to the subwoofer.
Right, if you want it louder add power, don't crank the gain.
Best explanation about overlaps 🫡💯
Before I knew about Overlap, I regulated it with 0db of overlap, as my sound system does not have a car radio, but a Bluetooth receiver from Qualcomm to use with the smartphone, I used a tone generator app to adjust the gain, but it always stayed with very low volume, using mathematics to calculate the power it only delivered about 60w (10%) so I had the brilliant idea of choosing the songs with the strongest bass from my spotify playlist (because spotify has a volume normalizer and it is standard for all devices, making the use of any smartphone safe) and regulate based on them, the cool part is that today I understand overlap well to make some tests and incredibly I regulated my system like this and resulted in +10db of overlap... adjusted by intuition without knowledge. And I found that tone generator apps with the smartphone at maximum volume is equivalent to -6db
Thanks man , i'm late to the party but i waited for this video ,thanks to make it simple so we can uderstand , keep up the good work.
Thanks for watching! Please share the video with someone that you think needs to know this.
@@DIYAudioGuy already told them 😅
Great video. Was reading on some forums about allowing the amp to soft clip allowing for a little bit of flatness on the top of the sine wave. I'll try setting the gain at -5d and then see how the sine wave looks at -0db. I may make a slight adjustment depending on how it looks. Hopefully a small adjustment will get me where I want to be.
As usual, I just learned something. Now to figure out what the tone generator on the Ultimate Car Audio App is recorded at
Easy - just download a 0dB tone and measure with a digital multi-meter, and run it through the formula.
I love the technical videos and explanations. I'm only a few months into the car audio hobby and learning loads of information I didn't bother to learn back in HS or college. The part I'm having a hard time understanding is the whole "amplifying a distorted signal will amplify the distortion". I definitely see why some people would make that statement, but I don't see the science behind the statement. My reasoning is that 1) an amplifier first breaks the signal into a square wave, which turns on/off on the MOSFETs via a drive chip and this signal is amplified. Then 2) on the output side of the amp the signal is then rectified and back into a sine wave via the pos and neg power rails... So is it not the square wave that is amplified in an amplifier?
I think it was barevids (the amplifier repair guy) that did a video where he injected a pure square wave into an amplifier, and watched it come out at the speaker terminals in a nice clean sine wave...
Yes, I saw the video.
That was an interesting video from barevids. Sounds like it's due to the low pass filter on a sub amp - Basically what makes a square wave is a lot of high frequency components that get filtered out by a sub amp (and he says that in the video, but it's a well-known phenomenon amongst electrical engineers who will tell you that fact if you so much as look at a square object in the room). If you have no filtering (or a very high bandwidth bandpass filter) on your amp, then the statement "garbage in, garbage out" still applies - squarewave in would come out as an amplified square wave. This especially applies to some of these new full bridge bass amps that are full-range. My SFB-5k has a low pass filter that goes up to 20khz. If you left it set there you'd get a square wave out (or as close to one as you could get with that range). The good news is that you can safely use aggressive gain overlap on bass amps with properly set filtering.
Good info. Thank you.
😎👍👍
Thanks for watching!
The record level depends on the music. I have seen purchased factory recorded music that was clipped from the studio. Bass heavy music is very often at 0db or clipped. Most metal albums when check are fully clipped from the studio.
I was going to include a little bit about the loudness wars, but It really made the video a little bit too long.
Some of this stuff is not just clipped, they apply compression to it so there are no dynamics, it really kills the sound quality.
I concur, knowing your music files/ sources is more important than overlap. Compression and limiters encoded into audio sources will mess with the overall sound and overlap turns into an EQ which may or may not distort. I use 0db tests for everything HU/amps/mids/highs/subs, then play around with actual post-EQ / DSP + mic and if needed (personal preference) bump up the bass a little.
@@dreci3001
Odd, because you're effectively negating your own work if you do post-EQ adjustments that do any form of addition to pre-EQ adjusting. If you're in the boat of doing things "up to the clipping point", then make an EQ alteration which adds to output, you've entered into the realm of clipping (albeit ever-so slightly). A multimeter could even see the difference between your output pre & post EQ alterations. _Personally,_ I prefer to set up the equalization to where I know it'll sound great, then raise gains "to preference, for SQ" or "to the clipping point, for SPL", then dial down to DSP+mic readings. That way, I'm taking away from something that's already too loud rather than adding to something that's not loud enough.
@@RAW_Reality I try and stay away from clipping. Maybe I didn't write it right. I always try to spare amps. I go with the DMM and scope piece by piece in the signal chain several times as well as a mic to have an overview. I also do this to the DSP. I set EQs then measure again. I do some math and set amp gains last, based on the provided figures. Since cabin gain is very pronounced in cars, I EQ the peaks, then bump the overall level, while measuring again. Any music that enters my car is processed with software, Im a bit old school unless it's FM and no streaming services.
I use -10db and my system sounds good. For the people saying it’s odd, a lot of the music on Spotify, pandora, Apple Music and so on are recorded at that db level. You could use a -10 to -15 db level if you listen to mainstream music since that’s what they are recorded at. If you listen to modified music like decaf then go lower. But yes there will be distortion with gain overlap but a little distortion is not bad. With 0db some of the songs are going to be much lower and then if you want it to be louder you going to distort it. But if you tune with a -10db you don’t have to raise the bass, you’ll just cut which is better than to boost if that makes since. I always tune with 40hz -10db and I’ve never blown a speaker or nothing.
Even then it will only be distorted if you're cranking it all the way up.
@@DIYAudioGuy I have a question about this tho. When you tune everything zeroed out. The sub level is on zero or half way. I always go half way and I just decrease the bass for songs and increase when some songs need it but never go all the way up
@@JesusSoto-rs4jc I always tune it with my subwoofer level on my head unit all the way up. Then it's never enough base with the sublevel turned down, so the sublevel usually just stays all the way up. The solution to that is bigger subwoofers with more power
Another Great video !!
Thank you sir!
Really like your vids man great job!!!
Thanks I appreciate that.
Thanks a ton I was wondering why the heck my system is so quiet I could not care less if it distorts at max volume
I paid the Math tax. Shocker! 🙂 Thanks for making this easy to understand and follow!
Nothing wrong with that.
lol
im about to
Learned something on that one!
Good!
Great explanation. Thanx 4 the info.
Thanks for watching! Glad you liked it.
Another great video , I appreciate it , Been out the game for a long time , so you say Odb test tone for head unit and anything between HU and amp. I have a eq and I take it that should be set to flat settings as well? Thank you for your time
Yep, everything should be flat. The only exception is if you have a bass level control on the HU/EQ/AMP. Then after you have the gain set you adjust the EQ by cutting frequencies that are to loud. Boost is a last resort.
if your monoblock matches your subwoofer 8 to 10db overlap is fine with bass knob all the way up
Yes.
As a car audio newbie, I've been trying to just take in what info I can on the subject. I'm not confident in what I'm doing with my settings, but with my subwoofer now hooked up, I'm actually blown away with how awesome my system sounds now!! I plan to ask around and see if I know someone with an Ocilloscope or other equipment.
***next up after my coffee is to quiet down that license plate! 😆 🤣 😂
Sound deadening will help. Another easy trick is to just attach it with all four screws if you can.
Justin so the only difference between the dd1 and the dd1+ is setting negative overlap say -5 -10 -15 for the dd1 or 1-? Overlap for the dd1+
With the DD1 you set "overlap" by using a different test tone. The second set of tones that comes with the DD1+ is a -15 db track and you can fine tune the "overlap". The dd1+ also has a voltage display.
gr8 vid!
👍
Hey, I mentioned this as a possible topic and a video popped up! Cool...
I generally use -2.5 db for the full range amps and -7.5 db for the subs. Although based on this I might try -10 db on the subs when I upgrade my sub amp. 400 watts is not enough!!!
Yeah, I was already trying to figure out the script when you commented.
Comments like that are always very useful, gives me the signal I need to go ahead and hit record.
Your the best
You are too kind.
O-Scopes can't see harmonic distortion.
You are correct, they cannot.
I don't like overlapping not even 3dB,
If i need to power 100w RMS speaker i would only give 90w and pefer 120W RMS amp of higer power.
So that amp will run clean and speaker would be stress free.
I used to feel the exact same may. After playing around with the SMD AMM-1 and seeing what real time power looks like I would be comfortable with 10 DB of overlap most of the time.
Do I have to set my subwoofer level on the HeadUnit or leave it flat? For example the subwoofer level max is 14 I have it set at 7 then I find my clipping point and set the gain
For most head units, you'll need to turn your subwoofer level control all the way up.
I find the suggestion of running gain overlap a bit odd, especially as much as 10db. An overlap of 3db means that at full tilt, you have 50% signal distortion! This is something I've played around with in the past and I'm now in the 0db of overlap camp. If you need to run overlap to hit the volume you desire, you're better off just getting more subs, a bigger amp, more efficient speakers, etc because any more SPL you get is made up of exclusively distortion. Overlap does not change your max clean SPL.
A few DB of overlap will be fine on most music. Some people use 15 DB, that seems bet excessive to me.
Hello sir love the videos . I set my subwoofer amp gain with a 40hz -5db test tone , when I set my LPF I should use 80hz -0db or -5db? Thank you for your time
old school ' wheelie just posted too lmaooo
I’d like to know if my signal train is correct. I could have swore I’ve done everything right.
Set your gains with 1khz -5db for mids and high and 40hz -7.5db for subwoofer to get balance output
That's literally all that gain overlap is.
Nice Video , great infoo ✌🏾 u connect the probes directly in the speaker outputs?!! Thanks
Yes.
Those SMD DD 1+ look so awesome I always thought about getting one, being a electrician I like different meters and elec tools. I jus don't quit understand how if you turn your gain up to when the distortion light comes on then set the overlap it's not distorted. Is it because once the light comes on and instead of backing it down til it goes off while pushing overlap with the distortion light on, it automatically does the calculation for you? Would be super awesome if they made a DD1++ with an ociliscope on the screen as well 🤯 💯
Music is dynamic, some parts are loud some parts are quiet. Plus music is not supposed to be recorded any louder than -5dbfs. So if you set the overlap to -5 DB you would get very little distortion.
If you set the overlap to -10 you would get some distortion on the loudest parts.
@DIY Audio Guy awesome, it's so cool and so interesting learning how this all works. I been watching d amore engineering videos and everything is starting click now lol. What's jus a little confusing is how if your running your amp at say a 2ohm load your voltage is higher then at 1ohm. Like 1400w at 2ohms is 52.92v and at 1ohm 1400w is 37.42v
do you have any videos showing exactly how you use the SMD tools?
Not sure what you mean, but I have several videos where I use them. ruclips.net/video/G2U8AoeYiTw/видео.html
I have a question or questions. Do you have too get clipping before you set gain overlap? Or can you turn the amp up right bore clipping then adjust your gain overlap..
2nd question adjusting radio , amps. Matrix plus, etc. Do you only use the rcas to test for clipping or does the prongs plug clip some where else??
1) That is the idea, you want to bring it up right to clipping before you set the overlap. 2) You can probe the speaker outputs on the amp.
@DIY Audio Guy one thing that no one talks about and i cant find any info about it, is:
everyone talks and is woried about setting the perfect gain on the amp, but no one talks about if the speakers will handle that "perfect clean power"
so, you have a 4x100 rms and a 1x1000rms amps... you set the gain perfectly, and there is zero distortion at max volume on both amps.. (setting with the method you do in this video)
BUT all you have is 4x45wats rms speakers, and a 1x250Wrms subwoofer... wont the speakers and subwoofer clip like hell at that "max clean volume"????
so if you have 1000watt clean max power.. is it fine to put a 50w rms sub???? I REALLY DOUBT ABOUT IT.. i dont understand why people only talk about the max clean power an amp can deliver, and no one talks about the max clean power speakers can handle... its ridiculous...
that is why i set the gains by hear..
1-all gains to minimum,
2-put 0db test tone and start rasing hu volume till you hear speakers clip to find max clean volume on hu and back just one notch for piece of mind..
3-start rasing amp gain till you start to hear speakers clip, and stop there. and you are set...
for me that is the only way you find THE MAX CLEAN POWER A SPEAKER CAN HANDLE at 0db...! (and its free to do this method)
what is your opinion on this?
You can use a multi-meter to set the amp at a level the speakers can handle. I mention that in a few of my videos. But the reality of it can be much more complicated, speaker power handling is wildly misunderstood. I am running 3.5" mids that are rated for 15 wrms with an amp tuned for 50 wrms. The reality is that they never see that much power on actual music, and the crossover keeps out the lows that cause over-excursion.
@@DIYAudioGuy for me the multimeter way is the worse one.. all the math into it goes wrong cause rms on amps and speakers in the real world, are never the ones you find in owners manual... try my method.. ( and make a video about it ahahah)
keep up the great videos
@@joshuawheeler4404 thats what i was trying to say.. forgot to do 'clip'
@@sergiobisonte I would never suggest someone set gains by ear unless they are very good at hearing distortion. Using a multimeter to set gains is perfectly fine considering the fact the math isn't wrong. What could be wrong is the rms rating of your speakers or amps. You also have to factor in cabin gain which is a reason why people think they are feeding their subs more power then what they are rated for. Setting gains with an oscilloscope is one of the best ways to set gains
Hey there. Great video. However I've seen a video where someone shows that head unit clipping is eradicated when it passes through the (subwoofer) amp. Did you do check that out?
I think that was Sam over at Barevids. He is a great guy.
I’m still confused….I set my mono amps to -7.5 and it’s less bass than when it was close to -10db but I keep seeing that -10 and even -15 is louder yet less voltage. So with a larger negative db, (further away from 0) what do I do next to get all the voltage to hit RMS in the amp?…..it just doesn’t make sense once I follow the dd-1 instructions. It’s weaker. When I read the dd-1+ overlap, and measured with MM, I was almost half the voltage then when I was when gain was higher. What am I missing here??
What is the dynamic power on the SMD amp DYNO Test?
I don't know, I'm not set up to run a dynamic test. It's probably just a matter of getting a copy of the IHF 202 standard test track.
So set the eq flat? To set your amp?
I'm curious if some of the newer music is recorded at a higher dB. Sure seems a lot louder.
Google "loudness wars" it has been going on for decades.
But what if you're running optical output from the head unit to the processor. How do you test that path??
It's a digital signal, none of these tools can test a digital signal.
This is quite interesting. I just set my gain using a 40 HZ 0db wav file and an oscilloscope after watching your video. Great job explaining things! When I did some research on my amp it says that the bass boost knob would increase it 0 to 6 DB but when you are looking at gain overlap on your SMD you are going all the way up to 10 DB. Would it be safe to turn up my bass boost knob on my amp? I am running a kicker 12-in Solo-Baric sub with a kicker cx800.1 amp.
The boost only works on a very narrow band of frequencies. If you want the squeeze a little more bass out of the amp use a -5 or -10 DB test tone.
@@DIYAudioGuy ok thanks for getting back to me! I appreciate it! Keep up the awesome videos!
Where did you get the oscilloscope ?
amzn.to/3LiTQ9f
How can I find out the frequency’s of a song to see if it’s rebassed ?
Also can we use the Smd test tones with our clip light ?
I asked about makeing this video thanks brother
👍
So when doing gain overlap, are you turning the gain knob up or down? Thats one thing I've never understood. Every video says "just set the gain overlap" but doesn't explain how.
Here is the logic, you are playing a quieter signal so in order to get the gain zeroed out you have to turn the knob up.
Out of the couple hundred comments so far I only found two that mention the bass knob...
My question is this... If my bass knob (attenuator) is 12db would I be correct setting 0db at min on knob and 12db with knob at max (or actually 10db overlap seeing that's your preference from all of your comments) then I could adjust listening overlap on the fly with my knob? Never mind 😂 when my bass knob is at minimum I get NO bass😅
Fun video. Fun comments. Thanks for what you do!
How to set gain for component speaker?
Same as a subwoofer, just use a 1khz test tone.
Recommend a oscilloscope audio nnoviest, not a professional but to install my own amps only.
which one do you you suggest?
ruclips.net/video/G2U8AoeYiTw/видео.html
Are you gonna review the kicker trtp subs?
Not unless Kicker sends some out to me.
If I have 0 db and 80 lpf what should my gain be set at if my subs are a little blown and my car is not very loud volume
Gain is based on you amp power. ruclips.net/video/MBcGOoRJ4Ro/видео.html
What if your head unit doesn’t have a CD player, is there some where we can download the test tones?
Several places -- kicker has test tones. I think this guy has some on RUclips: www.youtube.com/@DAmoreEngineering
Would the gain need to be adjusted when going from a 2 ohm to a 1 ohm load?
Nope.
so I used the dd1 today did the first phase turn everything down and bass knob up and volume knob to desired volume ,next play first track till I get distortion next hit read and switch to track 3 then set overlap I went with 7.5 then I noticed when I turned up my low pass the overlap jumped to 14.5 is this right
When you set the gains you want to have your crossover off. If you cannot turn your low pass filter off, then turn it to the highest setting. If you cannot turn your high pass filter off, then turn it to the lowest setting.
How do you set no overlap
Just set with the 0db test tone and you are done.
When it say set overlap 15db I'd that a suggestion or like the max possible?
That is the max that the DD1+ is set to do. You can set it to literally anything if you use the formula. I would not recommend any more than 10db of overlap. You will get a lot of clipping with 15 db of overlap.
Can u do a video with a smd cc-1 for gain matching for some odd reason on test bench it works fine but when in a high voltage system it doesn't work i only askin u because i cant get answers anywhere else thanks in advance
I don't have a CC1, sorry.
@@DIYAudioGuy yea was askin cause idk whats goin on lol but i dont think its the cc-1 the problem is i think is the amp im using (sundown sfb 5k ) its puting out voltage at speaker output with out any rca input its weird i know and tried a taramps md8k and it does the same thing the cc-1 works perfectly on my Rockford prime 1200.1. NOONE WILL HELP OR CARE TO EXPLAIN WHATS GOIN ON
@@smurfjones66 That is odd. Do you have a regular multimeter? Try checking the voltage with that.
@@DIYAudioGuy yes i tried the output voltage without rca input in and voltage still comes out i think its somthing to do with these kinds of amps
Soo in ac voltage i get 0.200v with no rca input and dc voltage heck it just keeps goin up i stopped it at 30.2v without rca input no clue what any of that means
In my novice opinion if you desire more power, buy a more powerful amp. Set the gains properly to ensure you’re never going to clip and damage your speakers. More money up front, less money long term. I don’t enjoy the constant track by track adjustments to my source volume and bass knob required to protect my speakers from an inadequately powered amp set with overlap to get the volume I desire.
I would not call that a novice opinion.
Justin only if Steve would give em a little discount once in a while ☺️
Or you can just use the $90 O-scope and some math. Most of the SMD products are nothing more than extracting the math tax out of people. I am not hating on Steve, or people that can't do math. Just being real.
He did a video maybe a year ago about all the returns he gets from Amazon and was selling them cheap at the time
Is it possible to get an accurate reading from the handheld o scope on the head units rca outputs? I ask because i recently picked up the scope/multimeter that you show, an when connected to one of the head units speaker channels clipping occurs around 32 (volume) but when i connect to the rca preout even cranked all they way up its nowhere near clipping. Is this normal behavior for head unit's or am i possibly getting a bad connection or wrong setting on the scope?
That is not unusual at all. I'm told that most pioneer head unit units go all the way to full volume before the RCA's clip. I've only ever run Alpine head units in the RCAs will go up to one notch before full volume before they clip.
I'll buy an RCA to speaker adapter, you can get them for just a couple bucks from Amazon, for testing RCA's. It's so much easier than trying to put the probes on or in the RCA plug.
@@DIYAudioGuy i tried finding some but couldn't find any that worked with scope/multimeter combo that you used. Of course what they sent looks a a little different from the one in your vid.
Nevermind i just fount it. Thanks for the tip. Next question being should i go off the rca since im only using amps or should i still set to the clipping point of the the headunit speaker outs
@@nickstalhood5380 A lot of "copy of a copy" on Amazon these days.
@@nickstalhood5380 If you are not hooking anything up to the head unit then just go with the RCA's.
5:50 As a single guy, I am ALWAYS shooting for "the cleanest single possible." ...... maybe that's why I'm single still? 🤔
Oh s***, did I misspell it? That's kind of embarrassing.
Don't lower your standards, you want to keep it clean.
This was interesting but above my pay grade
🤣
What years is this made.. I don't see anymore CD players this is Year 2022 almost 2023 ahhhh
I ripped the tracks and loaded them on my phone.
👍
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me- turn up the gain!!
worried guy- WHAT?
me- TURN UP THE GAIN!!!
worried guy- RIGHT THERE??
me- TURN IT MORE!!
me- YEAH!! RIGHT THERE!
worried guy- BUT THATS ALL THE WAY
yeah..... 😎
Turn it up to 11!
Excellent as always sir. You bring to light many things I wish I had known 20 years ago lol. One question though? When setting gain with a scope on say a subwoofer amp, does it make a difference if the amp is connected to a subwoofer or not? That is,will an amp clip sooner or later if connected to a load or does it make any practical difference?
It does make a difference, Sam over at barevids has a video showing the difference. I prefer to set things with speakers disconnected. Easier on the ears and easier on the equipment.
@@DIYAudioGuy Thank you.
I learned something new! I wonder who’s phone number i forgot now 🤣
Hopefully not your own!
You remind me if Gary Busey 😂
I’m more than happy to pay you the math tax for convenience. The dd1+ is a great bit of kit it is easy to use and I can set my ten amps and all crossovers/gains in my system in minutes instead of over an hour doing the math myself 🤣 rather spent time playing music than crunching numbers
You pay a premium for the convenience and there is nothing wrong with that.
I don't care how anyone sets the gains up, because all music is not the same and there for have no choice but to re-adjust
I might have to do a video on the loudness wars next.
So complicated. Just crank everything up till it smells funny.
I would not buy anything from that SMD guy. Rude as hell . Thinks he’s Gods gift to car audio and the ego in that guy is just over the top.
All of my interactions with him have been positive.
@@DIYAudioGuy Must be me then. Anyway, I’m enjoying you’re channel. I’m a new subscriber. I was a professional installer in the 80s-90s. So I’m old school. So I like listening to what car audio has become since then.
This concept makes no sense to me outside of audio competitions. For the general user who just wants to listen and may even want to listen at high volume to have the signal ever clip makes no sense. You should just buy more powerful amps and speakers if you want it to go loud rather than risk clipping at any point. I would rather set my gains using 0db and just live with how loud it gets.
5 out of 3 people have problems with math
😆
Oh that comment is just ... improper
my gains usually set at 18/22 % never over 30ish guess my amps are all happy
God forbid anybodys gotta tune by ear lol smh...
What? Hahahahaha
math tax 😊
👍
Gain overlap is plain bullshit and promotes the idiotic "loudness war".
Music is supposed to be dynamic and properly mixed and mastered music will be very dynamic, so that the listeners can enjoy the sensation between the quiet and the loudest parts.
Instead of employing "gain overlap" and end up listening to distortion (yes, distortion make it louder), invest in soundproofing solutions for your vehicle cockpit to lower the background noise to a level suitable for high fidelity music audition.
have you seen that hater robotunderground lol