DO NOT BUY irons until you've watched this
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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Just an Average Golfer giving unbiased opinions on all things golf, product tests, Golf travel vlogs and golf news!
For me "forgiveness" is what I need when the wife sees the credit card statement with golf equipment listed on it!
One of those times it’s best to ask for forgiveness rather than permission
Is the trackman extremely accurate on the exact area of strike? It's analyzing from behind the club. I did a similar test with tape on the faces and my results were alot different than this. My fitter showed me that I don't play enough anymore to play blades like I always have. Way too inconsistent strikes and the type of irons did make a big difference.
LOL!!! Me too! 😂
@@kirbywarren8265 Tape significantly chages flight characteristics,, especially on irons. Definitely 5 plus years, and reduced spin.
@@anthonyj7634 Ok. But no one has answered me yet about how accurate the trackman is on strikes.
Average swing speed for an average golfer with the driver is about 95mph; about the same as an LPGA player.
You will notice on the LPGA, most players don't go lower than 27 degree in loft. After that, they go to hybrids/utilities. Most golfers would help themselves by looking into the bags of the ladies versus the men.
Correct
Careful with averages... I have two cars, my son has none, on average we all have one car! The thing that "average speed" tells us is that there are large swaths of the male golfing population who are slower than the average LPGA player and should be playing more hybrids or even lofted woods (9 woods and 7 woods need to come back for these people). Then again, there are large-ish numbers of male amateurs who would outdrive massively the longest LPGA players (maybe not with drive, actually, as these ladies optimise their launch and impact in a way that's out of reach for most 5 hcp not to talk of the teens players and up). The truth of what you're saying is ALL amateur golfers would help themselves by not looking in the bag of anyone, and by having what suits THEM, their speed, their tendencies and all, not a "generic makeup". I've suffered massively in my early golfing days by getting a bag full of light regular shafts, up to 6i, 2 hybrids and a 5 wood.... It so happens that I'm actually a bit faster than the average PGA tour player, with a very high spiny ball and a strong draw tendency, and need x-stiff heavy steel shafts, plenty of (bladed or minimal CB) irons, no hybrids and a 4 wood! Not that this equates to me scoring like a PGA or an LPGA player, but I do score better with this bag makeup that with the "recommended one based on ladies bags"!
I think the point you make is correct. The swing speed is critical to consider. Also we are talking about irons here not drivers and no doubt a young stud with a drive speed >110 mph will out drive some LPGA pros. They often find that to get to
It’s an interesting conundrum. “They” insist that the hybrid is easier to hit. For me, it ain’t. “They” say the hybrid “pops out of the rough” with ease. For me, it doesn’t. Add in the ability to hit the ball straight. I can hit the long iron straighter than the hybrid. 🤷🏻♂️
Well said!
For me, the only testing that really shows forgiveness is on the course. I can stand on a flat mat and hit Miura blades all day long. But when u get in the rough, a bunker or an uneven lie, forget about it.
I am Seve from a mat, Duffy Duffman on the course
This is the key. Many people get fit on mats which can give them a false sense of how great they are with a club. Then on course they get in a situation where there's a lot of pressure and they haven't had the chance to groove a swing for 15 min, it doesn't work out.
My experience with blades matches yours. In the industry there's three different definitions of forgiveness. One definition is off center hits. And for me blades actually lead this category. They're the most consistent regardless of where you hit them. They don't go far, but they're consistent. They're just a solid steel bar so to me that makes sense. The second definition is launch angle. And this is where clubs like the Cleveland launcher and other hybrid style irons live. They're not super long but they launch high for slow swing speed. Then there's distance. This is where the P790, Callaway Apex, and other distance irons live. They try to maximize the spring effects of the club face for maximum distance. They also tend to use tungsten to create high launch but that's not their priority. They're the trampolines of the iron world. And if you've ever jumped on a trampoline you understand that the center jumps you high, but the sides aren't so "forgiving" and can even send you off balance. This is why these irons can produce weird side spin from off center hits. I personally find these irons the least "forgiving" because I can't trust them to go the distance they promised. One shot they go 170 and the next they fly 195 over the green. Then the next they're short. They're my least favorite type of iron but for some reason are the most popular.
that makes a lot of sense
This is why I like the blades too. The game improvement irons didn't improve my game at all. lol
I'm using the old 2007 Cleveland TA7 tour irons, they are not exactly mizuno type tour but like easier to hit cavity backs, you ever had experience with TA 7, I'm a 13 handicap and I wonder if I'm over my head with these irons, I'm just learning the sweet spot is near the hosel, I brought em used in 2019.
I’m a mid handicapper went to TXG yesterday for an iron fitting looking at the players distance category. Came down to the P790 and the 225. I ended up in the 225 because for me launch for the 790 was too high while the 225 launched in a perfect window for my club head speed and delivery and it was better in every shaft head combo. Moral of the story go get fit we’re all different needing different solutions. I got the 225’s 5 iron to gap with Accra iSeries iTour 110 M5 shafts. Getting a little long in tooth changing to graphite to save some wear and tear. Hopefully get them before the season starts in April. TXG does it right lots of fun.
You get TXG, we get American Golf and a shelf full of '7' irons.
Was at TXG a couple weeks ago hitting similar clubs, 225, 921 Forged and Apex.. Landed on 921 Forged 5-9 w/ Dynamic Golf Tour Issue for same reason it was the most well balanced for my needs. 225 came off too hot for my swing speed and for that same reason 790 wasn't considered. Overall great exercise and first time for me, glad it was at TXG
@@Apym289 Club Champion is pretty similar to TXG…they have EVERY club available and not beholden to any brand…
Congrats ur still gonna blade that chip n miss that 3 footer
Were you fitted by Ian? That’s a bucket list for me. But I live in Texas
This video describes exactly why I've gone with larger spacing/loft between each iron. I worked with TXG in Toronto and came up with the following lofts - (47, 42, 37, 32, 28, 24) for a set of 6 irons that replace a traditional set of 7 irons for PW to 4-iron lofts. I also want to say that it's important to de-loft the PW, like Tiger does, to a weaker 47-degrees because it gaps you back to your wedges.
This is a great video! I have blades in the bag 7-PW and I’ve been telling my golf buddies for a while that I don’t notice any real difference in the results from a miss hit with them vs game improvement irons. The main part to me is the way a smaller profile iron goes through the turf. I am awful with a bigger head and wider sole GI irons, just dont feel like those larger heads allow me to get down through the ball, especially in bad lies or rough. There is just more surface area to get hung up or grabbed by taller grass or getting down through the ball it if you end up in an old divot etc.. And that to me is why the smaller blade or slim CB type irons, are easier and more “forgiving” to play because of this turf interaction and how cleanly you can get them to the back of the ball. Added bonus is they look better, sound better, and feel better.
Couldn’t agree more with everything you have said here I was a 15 handicap and bought some calaway rouge x gi irons ( big chunky thick things) and I could hit the ball properly with them because of there size few years back I changed to ping i500’s and instantly was striking the ball way better and dropped my handicap to 9 the look and fell of the smaller thinner head is so much better and I’m now on the look out for some new clubs witch will probably be full blades
My thinking as well Patrick and Ben ! I currently Play the Mizuno 919 HM's. I'm around a 15, but feel the GI irons is hindering me. I'm currently looking at Cobra's line up. King tours(w/mim technology) or the new version 2022 king Tecs ! 🤞
@@charlesrohl7635 Me too. Played Mizuno T Zoid Pro and MP64, however I would prefer 'traditionsl' lofts as I know distances, gaps and more importantly distance for 1)2 and 3/4 swings for punch (wind) and in between club distances; as new sets go thru similar loft range with only 7 not 8 irons. Titleist T100 and Cobra MIM look to be options.
@paulgouge1896 update: couldn't get comfortable w/the king tec x's that I decided on. Pit my tail between my legs and went w/the Callaway Apex DCB's recently. Love them ! Happy holidays and Merry Christmas to you !🎄☃️🎅🏼
I started using blades as a 15 handicap and now I’m a 5.5, the feedback you get forces you to hit the center of the club face.
I find blades more forgiving because the distance on off center hits goes closer to the right distance and they look better at address, I tend to focus on the divot I’m trying to make and not the ball so a blade seems like a better tool for cutting turf.
Agreed. Also, on a mis hit with a blade, I end up short instead of long and wide.
Andy you absolutely nailed this video.
I know from bitter experience that there is no point in me having irons with lofts of less than 25 degrees, I just cannot generate the speed and launch with lofts of less than that. So for my i210s my 5 iron has a loft of 26 degrees and then I move into a 23 degree hybrid.
If I were changing irons this year, the 221s would definitely be on my list of options
The video I've been waiting to see from you Andy. I went for a fitting fully expecting to be in either 225 or 223 or a combo of the two.
The 221's shocked me! Like most amateurs, I hit it all over the face and the drop off was minimal. Certainly nothing that would worry me out on the course. I ordered 6-PW in 221's and I gap then with a G425 hybrid and 7 wood
That was interesting. 100% agree on the ‘better player’ pigeon hole. Play what you want IMO and I believe more traditional lofts can be really helpful.
🤪 I got fitted for a set of Mizunos 921 forged and found the different materials used between the 5,6,7 and 8.9,pw created a gapping issue > the Mizuno rep gave me 1 club to try which felt fantastic on the range but the set did not work on the golf ⛳️ course > sold them 😬 and went back to my old set of 2012 Adam’s forged irons ✅ I am so glad I kept my old set in the garage instead of selling them.
Good video Andy, totally agree that you can't rely on a fitting with a 7 iron. A proper fitting should include gapping your irons through the set, dropping irons if necessary combo of irons also a possibility 221 > 223 > 225 etc. And also tweaking loft in some cases. Fitter should also advise on club selection based on your ball striking. What may feel forgiving on a map can be wholly different on course, turf interaction with wider soles can aid greatly, not so much off a mat. In the ideal world, a fitting would include hitting some ball on course👍
Haven't had a 4 iron in the bag for 15+ years. Just recently I've noticed the smaller gap between 6 and 5 irons..a Mizuno MP18 FliHi 5 iron has pushed my carry back out to where it was.
Works for me.
Brilliant clip, wish I had seen this when I was upgrading my clubs. I now find myself using my hybrids (have 3 to 7), than my longer irons (so much easier to hit). Longest iron in the bag is the 7!
Brilliant video thank you.You have reiterated what I've found over the years,I've tried many specs of irons and there is little or no difference in forgiveness, I know play 2019 TS100 7 to PW Ts200 5 and 6, the 5 is staying in the bag because off a tee I do get more than the 6 but off the deck I don't. If I had my time again I wouldn't go to the TS200 at all. It's all marketing hype.
Andy, playing this crazy game for some 30+ years and now recently retired, going down the rabbit-hole of some serious researching/looking at some mid/high handicap Pings, Taylor Made, Titleist, Wilson's and now the Mizuno; 225 irons. Some good advise, Thank you!
Great Video!!! ….you nailed it! ….in modern times the „average Golfer“ should rethink the bag-setup! …it all comes down to the mindset „what tool does the job“. …and this is the real Club-Fitting!
Great video about gapping for mid handicapper with modern day. I paid more for 0311p gen 3 (6-gw). Got a 4 hybrid. So got myself a cheaper 0211 6 iron 24 degree as my backup 5 iron to play in windy conditions
Great video and advice - spot on- maths don't lie mate- in regards to average aging golfers- the disease we are ALL suffering from is sarcopenia (DYOR) - apart from Arnie, Sly and ANYONE else who pushes weights to stress the body into defending itself and stimulating HGH & testosterone. Then as you know -flexibility which is vital - I'm 57 - just started superspeed training - have a launch monitor and aiming for 116mph by the end of the year with a tighter dispersion pattern. Age REALLY is a state of mind and maintenance of the body we reside in. I play Mizuno MP-H5 and hit my 3 iron (before start of SS training) 210 carry- 50f temp no wind,,, I play a Original TM BubbleShaft 5 wood - 235 (good day, wind behind downhill :)) carry - not trying to show off just to show - IT'S NEVER TOO LATE TO CHANGE!!! xxx
Best video i have seen on testing clubs. I have felt for a couple of years now the testing of clubs should be this. You know your club head speed, angle of attack, club path, how open the club was, lie angle and where you hit the ball. Hit 30 shots with each club and group them in several groups within reason based on the above measurements and then look at dispersion carry etc based on the grouping. In other words take the swing out of it and just show club performance.
Andy, one other factor in gapping. Manufacturer's tolerances. Loft and lie's can vary widely from the factory. Which effects the gapping. If your 5 iron is weak by a degree and your 6 iron strong by a degree, they may both carry nearly the same yardage. Would be interesting if you or Foregolf had a loft and lie machine to verify the specs of the clubs you test.
This level of detail would def improve the reliability of his numbers but i guess not show the problems faced by "average golfers" trying to navigate the top end of bag.
I think feel is more important than minor differences in forgiveness today. I bought some distance irons a few months ago and have already sold them on. They felt harsh, sounded harsg and gave almost no feedback as far as strike. Went back to my old Mizuno forged and just purchased the PXG Gen 3 irons for a bit of the new club excitement. They feel very similar have to say.
This was a great revelation…confirms my own experience. I played blades when I was younger because I learned on a set of Chi Chi Rodriguez blades and got used to them…I’ve since gone more towards the player game distance irons which are supposed to be more forgiving, but I find I hit blades better!! What would be a nice comparison for this would be the equivalent lofts, e.g., the 5 iron for the 221s with the 6 iron of the 225s. I have found when blending clubs, sometimes instead of skipping an iron, you need two of one! If you look at the 221s blended with the 225, you can get two 7 irons and they will cover the gap…in my current bag (Titlelist T200s) my 6 and 7 iron cover the same distance…
Very interesting. I went back to my Titliest AP3 last summer. Went in for a fitting in January and assumed I was walking out with the T200.
I left with the T100s. My toe hits with both clubs generated the same 'loss' potential between the two clubs.
At the end of the day - I picked the T100s because it blended with my other clubs in terms of gapping. (the T100 simply wasn't strong enough due to loft - and would have thrown my gapping off at the top of the bag).
Iron technology has come so far in the last 20 years! Thanks Andy!
This is one of the best video's ever. It is spot on! I purchased new irons last July and it turned into a four day process over two weeks where I hit literally 17 different irons. My findings were very similar to what you described in terms of forgiveness. I ended up with 6 iron through AW. Then hybrids at the long end of the bag. You mentioned the difference in loft between the "players" vs. "game improvement " irons. The GI irons have strong lofts, in my set the 7 iron is 27.5 degrees vs the players iron, same manufacture 7 iron is 30 degrees. Therefore the 7 iron fly's farther in my set due to loft. I went with the game improvement irons. One reason was short shaft length with stronger loft. It's easier to control shorter clubs. The feel and the forgiveness were basically the same, the strong lofts allow me to play the 7 where with the players set I might be playing the 5 or 6 iron. Again spectacular video and spot on!!!
You make a good point about shorter clubs but I have an issue with modern super strong irons.
Gapping the bag is easier at the long end with something like 4I -> 3W or 6I -> 4H but its a nightmare at the bottom. I hit hard and a game improvement 9I goes something like 140 yards. This means the wedges have to replace the traditional short iron ranges as well. It takes a fair few wedges to cover 120-50 yards.
TLDR: shorter irons at the same range can be nice, but it often means carrying 4-5 wedges due to gapping issues.
Very impressive thought process in club testing-forgiveness and club testing! Thank you!
I wanted to thank you for your ladt videos about gap wedge set club vs specialty club, made me actually not just buy a 50 degree cleveland but actually go and hit 50 and 48 and I found just like u did the 50 degree of a set is longer due to the hot face so I ended up with a 48 cleveland to go with my zx5 and fills the gap perfect pw is 44 and gap is now 48. Thanks again
Totally agree And! I’ve tried every club known to man and over the last few years 5 irons are redundant in my case. Thanks Andy
I “retired” my 5 iron. As it was a passenger 😂😂. I bought a 6 hybrid which is great out of the rough or iffy fairway lies.
First off these aren’t on opposite sides of the spectrum, Mizuno 225’s aren’t game improvement irons. The JPX hot metal is Mizuno’s game improvement iron. The 225’s are a mid forgiveness iron.
Second, good players don’t “drop” irons to gap properly. Bad players can’t hit 5i’s well enough to gap properly based on contact and speed. If you need to drop a 5i and go 6I to 4i, you should stop at 6i and go straight into hybrids. It’s so much easier. Why would a mid/ handicapper play a 4i or either of thee irons anyway. Give them a JPX hot metal 6-PW/AW, 4 and 5 hybrid, 5wd, no 3wd, and Driver. Give them no hard to hit clubs. I fit for a living and I do a good job at it. It’s not as complicated as this video makes it.
This video might actually get people to think they should hit blades.
Top irons used on tour-
1. Titleist T100(not a blade)
2. Ping i210(about a 10-15 handicap iron)
3- tied -Titleist MB( blade) and Callaway Apex TCB( not a blade)
Even the pros know hitting blades is pointless.
64% of the tour uses all cavity back irons.
20% uses only blades
The rest use a mixed bag of both.
It goes to 80% if they have at least 1 cavity back iron.
Forgiveness is very much a thing.
I hate to be negative but I have to agree with this… The 225 aren’t game improvement irons they are a players distance. I’ve found your past few videos quite miss informing for the “average golfer” and actually could confuse a lot of people too. You talk about going from a 6 to 4 iron for gapping but what “average golfer” is striking a 4 iron with a high enough swing speed and quality of strike consistently enough to launch, spin and carry the ball enough to justify a 4 iron when they can’t even do it with a 5 iron. Your previous video regarding the difference between hybrids and long irons and how average golfers should buy hybrids and long irons aren’t the best option had the same story when you talked about changing the loft of hybrids to gap properly when the majority of the time you can simply buy a club with the right loft right from the jump if you test properly and plan your bag with an experienced fitter.
I genuinely hate being negative but honestly, most average golfers either don’t have a 4 iron and if they do it looks as new as the day they unwrapped it and put it in there bag.
Yet I, an 11 handicap golfer have shot my 2 lowest rounds with blades and play better with them than any of the other sets i have (cavity back and another set of blades). Or other cavity backs i have owned in the past. So, I wouldn't say pointless.
Another great video and bang on! My 6 iron gets no usage at all and have dropped it from my bag. Would never have considered blades until I watched this…
Yes, the numbers are important…but I have to be IN LOVE with the club I’m looking at…I’ll be getting fit for everything in my bag this spring, and this was a phenomenal resource to be shown to me by the algorithm…THANK YOU! This video could save my students THOUSANDS of dollars over the next 5-10 years…for lifetime players, tens of thousands saved isn’t out of the question. I hope this video makes you more money than you could ever imagine!
Liked & subsribed🥂
Thank you for this amazingly insightful video. I just had a custom fitting. It was not a good experience, and I did not buy the set of irons the sales person was pushing. Only 7-irons were given for trial. Importantly, no reason was given for needing a new set of irons.
So true this video.. over the last 20 years since starting golf ( I’m 59 now) I’ve had an obsession with golf irons and have played over 300 different sets at least ranging from pure blades to the chunkiest out there.. the truth is that from 6 to PW there is marginal difference.. but with pure blades the 3,4,5 irons went a similar distance and I always ended up taking them ( the 3 and 4 iron) out of my bag because I only used the 5 iron.. the overriding love I have for blades and the truer distance control they give is why I still use them over game improvement irons.. but only from 5-PW
You're totally right on both counts, from my experience...
- Blades or "bladed cavities" are not that unforgiving, performance wise. The only "punishment" you'll get from them compared to a GI cavity is the feel. On a cold winter morning, that bladed 5i hit on the bottom groves very close to the toe will send some nasty vibrations up your arm... But you'll often find (initially with a bit of surprise) that you've not lost that much yardage!
- Long irons don't do the same as short irons, and there's a point of "massively diminishing returns"... However, it's not always in the direction you mention : in my case, my 21° "3 hybrid" is barely longer on average than my 24° "4 iron" despite the longer shaft and CG location and all... I do have club-head speed plenty enough BUT I tend to have too high a ball flight. The 4i keeps the ball a bit lower and spins it less, so it's OK, while the 3h just sends it in the stratosphere with a bit too much speed and... Tadaaam, barely 5 more yards on average. Still, I keep both since the 3h can be useful in specific situations (holding a 220 yards green, floating a ball downwind for that extra carry, punching/rolling balls on tight lies like a "juiced up putter", and so on).
That might be a personal characteristic, but both are sure myths "A blade is always less forgiving than a GI" and "based on a 7I or 6I you can fit the all bag"... By the way, one of my most used club is my 4i and strangely, the 6i is the least used one... For no other reason than if I play correctly and using my strategy, on my home course, I don't have need of a 185-190 yards shot.
As you say. Having varying land angle options from the same longer distance is a great option. Especially if part of your golf season the courses get baked out. You dont want to hit a 4 iron from a tee that runs 80 yards into a bunker. The drop and stop hybrid becomes the perfect option. Or similar into a par 5...height required.
I retired my MP58’s early last year and got fitted for 921 forged. I had a birdie each round last year - which was new for me. The fitting was the key. I tried callaway, other mizuno’s and taylormade. The golftec folks are solid.
WOW! I had a blended set of MP69/MP59 and they were the best clubs I ever played…need to get back to Mizunos!!!
@@petegalindez9961 my business partner just got his Mizuno Pro 225’s. Same profile as the 921 forged but absolutely a gorgeous club.
So damn true 👏👏 I had to adjust lofts of 4-6 to create some distance gaps with 7. But fitters don’t keep a 4 or 5 ; the ones that have become more difficult with increased age.
Very good video. You're really putting out some worthwhile content.
Very interesting. I agree with your comments about the problem with the longer irons. I am playing with an older set with a 7 iron at 33 degrees and a 5 iron at 27 degrees, and it worries me that my next set might have a 7 iron that is nearly as strong as my current 5 iron. It would have been nice to see the dispersion comparisons, and the peak height and descent angles.
Andy your absolutely right, I always have a 5 iron as part of the set, but I use it once in a blue moon. 🤦♂️
Yeah. My 5-iron is a bag ornament.
My 5i used to be my go-to long club until I tried a 4H. Now, that 5i sits in a basket in my living room. :)
I'm wondering if I would see similar results by replacing my 6i with a 5H...we'll see.
I've stopped at 6 irons for a few year now because of crossover Move to 5 and 4 hybrids then gap to 5 wood.
Agree with your simple definite of “forgiveness” = off-center hits. Everything else is down to user error after that.
Very intelligent analysis especially the last part about long irons , people never think about that. This is important especially if you don't have high clubhead speed! Thank you
Too late! I have already bought my next set of irons. Well I bought them for my wife, but I can see in a few years as I pass 70 they will suit me just fine. They are hybrid-iron design Cleveland HB Launchers, seniors flex graphite shafts. So easy to hit!
I did my own experiment using my son-in-laws Taylor Made players distance style iron. The results were ego deflating.
Got fitted for some game improvement irons a few years ago. Returned to my blades after three months since they worked better for me.
Always constructive and thought provoking, as usual this video is really on the button - thanks so much.👍🏻
I have run the exact same test Mizuno MP 29s against PXGs Gen 3, and agree with your findings. Sometimes the blades are actually more foregiving.
I play the MP20's they are great. Its all in the mind, I've always played a bladed iron, i have tried a couple of more so called forgiving clubs, but they are harder to control. 6 IRON up is MP, lower down i use a hmb 5 iron (Sometimes a 26 degree hybrid), then hybrid 4 iron, , a hmb 3 iron, and the 5 wood and driver
You bring up and exemplify a couple of very interesting points of references. I have been thinking about new irons this year and getting fitted, again. Going to make sure I get, if possible, all yardages looked at.
Interesting video. Fitting with one club 6/7 iron is an issue. I did exactly the same thing with my current iron set. Had 3-P MB/CB irons but then built the 4 iron the length of a 5 iron to increase the gap in loft and ditched the actual 5 iron. That was only possible for me because I am confident to pull apart and rebuild clubs but wouldn’t have shown up in a fitting. Combo sets are so popular now it should be standard to fit with a short, mid and long iron
Great advice! I suspect my 5 i and 5 h are very similar is performance, and I always pull the 5 h as I know it's easier to hit, so the 5 i sits in the bag rarely used. They are the same length (as my irons are 1 inch over length) and they are identical loft.
Take it out gavin I have I carry 5hybrid
I bought the 221. I couldn't be happier. I feel that you either hit the middle or you don't. The iron isn't big enough to make a huge difference, like a driver. 100% agree on being fit in more than just 7 iron.
I bought a cheap set of blades a few years ago to research myself accuracy of strike etc.
10 shots in, I finally thinned a shot. The rest were flushed and felt incredible (7 iron). I soon sold my players irons and began gaming my blades. My set is 3-pw in blades, 3 vokeys 50,54,58, driver, 3 wood and occasionally a 2 iron or hybrid based on the course. The blades leave no mystery on impact location. 1/4" heel or toe, 2 grooves high or low and I can feel it without looking. For me, it's blades for the foreseeable future.
I went to a fitter and knew I would try all those irons, Ping G425, Callaway Forged Game Improvement, Mizuno 921 etc. None of them clicked with me, then my fitter gave me Srixon ZX-5, hit them and it felt like "butter", farther distance, tighter pattern of shots. I prefer forged clubs for the feel.
I’ve just been fitted for the 221s from 7 to pw, I’m about a 10 handicap and the I much preferred the look of the 221 and the size of the head didn’t intimidate me at all if anything it gave me more confidence because it made me feel a better golfer and a player if you like and was carrying the 7iron 165 on average which I’m happy with. I want to feel like I need to hit the ball better than rely on a club that is going to mask bad shots. Always wanted blades and I think regardless of numbers no one was going to sway me 😂
Totally agree with the gapping comment. My set goes to 6 iron (26.5*) then to 6 hybrid (30*) which goes 20yds further as it's so much easier to hit. I get plenty of height and forgiveness and most importantly it fills me with confidence at address. That is especially true of soft courses, range mats even things out a bit.
I hear you on the pigeon holing of manufactures against blade use. I hear it time and again but I still play blades because that's what I like and I have not found any noticeable Improvement using a more theoretically forgiving Club
I was fitted a couple years ago for some mizunos and had no intention of buying blades but they ended up performing the best in the PW-7 so they are in the bag. What I'm realizing now is its all about turf interaction when gaging forgiveness in this players category. Hitting a blade off a mat is pure joy, off some soft turf is a where the forgiveness of a 223 / 225 / zx7 can save strokes.
Spot on, average golfers require help that's why there are hybrids, especially at the long end. We either have swing speed ir we don't. No point torturing ourselves with 5 or even 6 irons . Hybrids make the game so much easier and enjoyable. I absolutely love them and I'm a single figure player currently playing g425 5, 6 and 7 hybrids
Agree 100%. It takes a certain kind of miss to see any possible benefit for a game improvement iron. Shots hit heavy, hooked, sliced, pushed, or pulled can't be saved by a game improvement iron. Ditto for just pulling the wrong club. It's not often that you hit an iron at the green that's so far off center that you'd see an actual benefit from coming up a little less short. I went from old '84 Hogan Apex PCs to TM P7MBs and found the P7MBs to be remarkably forgiving, especially when hit a little thin. The modern iron has a lower CG and launches slightly higher according to Trackman. 35 degrees of loft for P7MB 7 iron vs 37 for Hogan. Distance was comparable as was spin. You are so right about being able to test longer irons. The golf shop I went to allows you to take out any club on display to hit on the range. You just give then your driver's license as collateral. But in the fitting bay where you are trying out shafts, it's 7-iron only.
Great video Andy....I just got fitted last week for the Mizuno 223 I tried the 221and 225 ..the data and impact location was better on the 223 .. when I was hitting the 225 7 iron I got an average carry of 185 and the longest shot was 192
Very true Andy. I think the option for some is stay with the weaker lofts 5-W and have your gapping at 8-10 yards per club. I’ve chosen to go with the stronger lofts 6-W and fill the top end with 2 hybrids. As we get older it’s really the best option for more consistent ball striking.
Thank you so much for making this video.
I’ve been looking at both sets of clubs and as a 14 handicap player, the 225s were seeming more suitable, but the 221s were where my eye was drawn.
👍🏻
Good point Andy. I got a set of 0211’s without the 5 iron and go to a 4 hybrid and 7 wood. Gapping is good with better results in the 150 - 200 yard region.
same just bought the 0211 PW, 9,8,7 then different set of mixed clubs
Insightful. Next set ... forged blades ...so shiny.
Yep, spot on. My 5 iron (JPX) is so close to average carry of my 6 and leaves a big gap to my Hybrid. Wished there were more clubs available for testing/fitting.
My second viewing of your amazing video - I caught your comment about watching my impact location. At my fitting, the salesperson only checked my impact to improve the lie angle for the club I was supposed to buy. I feel like the salesperson was withholding important information.
Makes sense. I tested the entire pro line and ended up with the 225's. The gapping problem for me was the 4 & 5 iron. Had to drop the 4 and added a 7 wood. The 225's were more forgiving for me especially on thin shots which had minimal carry. Thin shots w/the 225 were fine. Would love to play the 221's but not as consistent for me. Love the 225's.
I play 7 through GW now. Gone hybrid and utility until 4 wood. I like forgiving irons but don’t like the offset.
I mostly play Srixon Z585's with Miyazaki shafts, although I recently bought a set of Titleist 716 CB's with Aerotech steelfiber shafts. The difference is that the Titleist head is smaller and are easier to work left to right or right to left and are more accurate. Both 5-PW, hybrids and 3 Vokey wedges work quite well. Now if I could find a putter that I loved, I'd have my set.
This is brilliant advice. I’m getting fitted Friday for most likely 225’s and I’m thinking about going 4 thru gap. Hoping Club Champion can accommodate what you’re recommending. Thank you!
I go by looks and price. I just like the blade look. Have 2 sets from the early 80's, Mizuno and George Nicoll. Total cost $400. from what I have seen getting the latest and greatest just is not going to improve my game/enjoyment that much to justify the BIG price.
Most fitters are still using tape where I’m at, so where your striking the face is still very much used here. And if you use the rest of the new technology available then the fitting is more complete in my opinion. Love the channel mate 👍
The 4 iron in my set is out of the bag and has been since I bought the irons. 5 iron is in a battle with a 5 hybrid. I tend to keep both in as I can shape the 5 iron and not the hybrid, so use it when in the trees etc.
Just went from Wilson D350's to Callaway Rogue ST OS Irons and there is huge difference in forgiveness..
My last (and only) fitting concentrated on dispersion and feel. The factor that influenced my decision most was the difference that shafts made.
I'm going for a fitting in March. Completely opened minded about what I'll end up with. I do think the whole 7iron and that's it is a problem, I have a feeling ill be going 5- gw in something pretty forgiving. Its a full bag fitting at tour x in Wigan if anyone is interested and I'll update on result if asked to. Driver and fairways/hybrids should be easy enough, again wedges is going to be interesting too
I just got the 221’s. I hit them just as far as my i525 I had. Miss hit’s will happen. But the ball flight is amazing and the accuracy is the best thing that I love about them. I think they have instilled fear into beginner golfers and people that have played for several years. Don’t be afraid to try blades people. If you want to elevate your game just keep working and get these blades or something within this range to elevate your game.
Love these kind of videos Andy. You have a fairly shallow angle of attack so a blade would actually work well for you (strike dependant) as they have a thinner sole
I enjoy your videos - very informative - however after discussing loft and forgiveness on new clubs please discuss shaft weight, flex, etc on purchasing new clubs especially for slow speed swing and for golfers needing more distance. Thanks, Art
Interesting, it almost seems like the mb's actually have less dispersion from best strike to worst strike. I would not have guessed that.
Have to agree with the last comment that it's about what you put in the bag and the make up sets , I personally prefer a wood over hybrids and don't think I need a utility iron with the woods ,I'm going to try a fitting for a driver as never played one and think it will take a something to get one in the bag it's got to hit fairways and be longer than my 3 wood ,
had a bag of 0311P, went and found a used set of mp4 with nippon 120 stiff shaft, took them to the course a couple times and i had a blast hitting the blades over the 0311s. the smaller head made me really focus better, with the addage of hit small aim small is true, less chance to screw up shots because the size helps make you hit the middle
This just depends on player preference, how many hybrids, woods do you wanna carry? How much a gap do you wanna have between each long iron? Then it is easy to figure what club stays and goes…. Do you have a 10 yard gap from 7-6-5? If not your strike or loft you deliver to impact is severely limiting your carry numbers…
As a high handicapper I find it difficult to hit anything stronger lofted than my 6 iron with any sort of consistency, I carry a 4 and 5 hybrid in place of the long irons these are much easier to hit and fill the gaps between my woods and irons perfectly for me
I'm a beginner and I'm using 20 year old Max Fli irons, I have no fear of using the 4 iron and in fact I enjoy using it. It's probably in part because the irons are more lofted than modern clubs. Little by little I will replace my whole set but the irons will be the last thing as I think I'll get the least gains from new irons.
Went for a fitting for i59/i525. Long time ping user, from i5 to I blade, i210, i500. Bought tm p7cb mb combo. Shocked at how much better they were, the blades shocked me how easy they were, I'm 60 159 ave carry distance with a blade with 6000 spin, better figures than the p770
Good points. The 225 looks larger (?) which implies more mass which can be better for slower swing speeds (momentum = mass x velocity) providing the larger mass can be kept under control. Also a larger face is naturally forgiving in terms of missing the heel or toe regardless of dispersion on the shot. (The point of cavity-backed vs blade is not lost on me.) Yes, fair point about the loft differences as you go stronger. Many of us do not have the clubhead speed to handle a 3 or 4 iron, it goes just as far (carry) as a 5 iron. So now they sell us (more expensive) hybrids to cover this range but partly because today's 4 iron is as strong as a 3 iron 10 years ago so manufacturers can hoodwink us into thinking their 7 iron now flies further than the old 7 iron in your bag. This has meant buying additional wedges to bridge from PW to SI including gap wedges.
Comparing within brands is one issue, comparing across brands is another owing to the loft issue already mentioned. Not everyone's 5 iron is the same loft, so compare loft with loft, not iron number with iron number.
Finally: Often the difference between irons is a fixed 4 degrees which is simplistic. Probably needs to be a higher separation with longer irons with a smaller separation at shorter irons giving that magic 10 to 15 yard difference on the ground - this fits neatly into what you were saying.
I like the testing of longer clubs, however I do think that the blade vs game improvement iron comparison on indoor data only tells you a partial story. I do believe that hitting a blade out of ruff is where the real difference come into play.
I play MP20 blade up to 6iron, then move to hybrid. Carried 3&4 hybrid for over 10 years and now stepped that down to 4&5 hybrid a put a 7wood in to fill the gap between 4H and 5wood (16.5*). I played HMB but they were just too jumpy and distance control front to back was an issue and I would get knuckle balls with the irons off a small tee as when you middle it the ball hits slightly higher in the face and come out high with low spin and flies 10-15 yards further!
Forgiving irons are real! I have only started playing golf recently and started with a second hand set of Mizuno T-Zoid Pros and found if I didn’t hit them dead centre my distances were all over the place. My lovely wife bought me some Titleist T200s for my 50th and only 2 rounds in I can already see the distance consistency. Sure, they won’t stop me hitting it fat, blading it or slicing because i left the face open, but i now feel that if i hit it in or near the centre, it will be a good shot.
Similar story for me. Started 1.5 years ago with Wilson Staff blades (i5 model?) and bought Mavrik Max irons 6 months ago. Saw considerable improvement in distance AND forgiveness. Although, at 59 years old my body is forcing me to transition to hybrids from my long irons. 😮💨
good stuff. thanks andy. i'm also interested in mizuno's 221, 223's & 225.... trying to differentiate those 3 sets is tough. glad i watched ur video!
Great video, really useful and timely as I’m currently new iron hunting as my HCP is plummeting. Have you or any of your followers any experience with Sub 70? Looking to see them in Hereford on next few weeks. Seeing PXG next week. Had a lovely time at Srixon recently with the Zx5s and managed to squeeze a round in at Carden Park
I had to drop the 5 iron and put a hybrid in instead.
Forgiveness is a thing on good strikes vs great strikes. A shank is a shank no matter how “forgiving” a club is.
Interesting stuff and no real surprises in terms of forgiveness and distance. With regards to gapping and particularly the difference between a 5/6 iron, I think most handicappers would benefit from a 5 hybrid which is more forgiving and a better flight than a 5 iron. Okay there may be still a bit of a gap between 6 iron and 5 hybrid but not too much me thinks.
Great video and scenario on the gapping issue... I found this be true some times with the 8 and 9 iron and some times 6 to 5 irons...Not much improvement....Both of these clubs, 221 & 225 are winners...as for which ones would be better...I think that would be a factor as to your players ability...Scratch golfer go with the 221 but 6 to 15 handicap...lean more toward the 225....playing the 225's will get you to the scratch level but hitting the 221 might get you into a black hole voit and get your game and swing in a quondam loop and not much fun getting lost there.....
Very interesting. I’ve been playing the JPX919 Hot metal pro since November 2019. Just recently I started using Titleist AP2, due to a tour x stiff shaft, to my surprise I can play the AP2 without any considerable difficulties. That might suggest that the forgiveness issue was already the same back when the AP2 was released.
Great video. Where do you go in the upper end of the bag if you have dropped out a club and have room for another? I have a 4 driving type iron and a 5 hybrid . They can go similar distances but each is useful for different situations on the course. Then have 5 wood and Driver
Agree with the main message that longer irons will overlap at some point (I've been playing 27* 5i, then 26* 5h for 10+ years), but I'm not sure the 25 yard carry difference between 7 irons can be explained by 4 degree loft difference alone.