A Plan to Remake the Middle East
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- Опубликовано: 7 май 2024
- If and when Israel and Hamas reach a deal for a cease-fire, the United States will immediately turn to a different set of negotiations over a grand diplomatic bargain that it believes could rebuild Gaza and remake the Middle East.
Michael Crowley, who covers the State Department and U.S. foreign policy for The Times, explains why those involved in this plan believe they have so little time left to get it done.
Guest: Michael Crowley (www.nytimes.com/by/michael-cr...) , a reporter covering the State Department and U.S. foreign policy for The New York Times.
Background reading:
• Talks on a cease-fire in the Gaza war are once again at an uncertain stage (www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/wo...) .
• Here’s how the push for a deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia looked before Oct. 7 (www.nytimes.com/2023/06/17/us...) .
• From early in the war, President Biden has said that a lasting resolution requires a “real” Palestinian state (www.nytimes.com/2023/11/16/wo...) .
• Here’s what Israeli officials are discussing (www.nytimes.com/2024/05/03/wo...) about postwar Gaza.
For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily (nytimes.com/thedaily?smid=pc-t...) . Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.
The Palestinians have "lost out" - in other words, peace, a normal life, prosperity, all the aid helping them.
But - they have to stop killing Israelis... Yes, I can see what a huge loss they would feel.
With no Hamas, they may even get leaders and a government who looked after them! Horror! Impossible, unreasonable!
All while you build illegal settlements. Without double standards Zionists would have no standards at all... Hypocrites
Rabin was assassinated for seeking Peace. Powerful factions in Israeli politics depend on bloodshed.
There was a chuckling quote that Yassir Arafat never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. That holds here, now, with Bibi.
Netanyahu can face domestic civil procedures without the cover of holding the Government. It would act against his personal interest to end this warfare soon, or ever.
There is no Hamas in West Bank but Israelis are still stealing there land.
@@philipb2134 Bibi has be replaced. I believe a majority of Israelis have publicly demonstrated this; and the head-bangers from Ben Gvir - who give Hamas supporters the ONLY argument against Israel. There IS, has to be hope with both Hamas and after the war, Bibi replaced, there may a real, if slender, chance for the Palestinians to painfully edge towards the bright future all tortured ME locals deserve.
Cannot just keep on hating.
Sounds like this deal would be a big win for oil barons and weapons manufacturers and a major loss for human rights and climate change. From Biden or Trump, I would expect nothing less.
Only a Putin supporter could suggest that. Or John Mersheimer...
@@willdon.1279 Maybe you could explain how this deal would be good for the climate or humanitarians instead of mischaracterizing my points as somehow pro-Putin?
@@camcaasi2685 My considered reply was removed - yet other balanced replies were not. Why?
“”The only safe and sure way to destroy your enemy is to make him your friend”. - Mark Twain”” - Hank McCoy, Beast (X-Men)
6:45
Of course it’s about selling weapons! Haha!
which countries exist without weapons?
@@MayorMcC666 I know, right? I would never sign a treaty with the US without a deal on those sweet weapons!
We're 4% of population yet sell 50% of all weapons often to both sides.
We are 4% of the population but we provide more than 60% of global technology invention. How does that sound to you?
@@kevinel1398who is naive then. Tell me which country does not want and does not need US weapon, my dear?
Right! Canada! West Europe! Because US protect them!
I find Biden's comments to the Jewish community completely baseless and lacking in any sincerity. You ignore many individuals and groups in the Jewish community and their words and actions in support of Palestinians. Your credibility is shot when you condemn the prejudices and discriminating policies of one group while ignoring the oppressive acts another. "There is no peace with injustice."
If you think that support for Palestine is the end of Israel then I am sorry to disappoint you
@redpigeons , what part of my comment lead you to that thought.
You mean someone has a plan to remake a huge region of the world? Don't tell me it's two people and they are called Sykes and Picot! It's the epitome of hubris!
oh god, outsiders making plans for Gaza, again. America making plans for people thousands of miles away. thousands of US soldiers landing in Gaza. hashtag genius
Yes, they have made an excellent job these recent decades. A rebuilt underground, for example.
AP News interviewed Hamas leaders in April 2024, and they said they will disarm in exchange for a 2 state solution along 1967 borders as recognized by previous UN resolutions. They've been open to this 2 state solution since they updated their charter in 2017. But for some reason everyone still says Hamas wants to destroy Israel and expel Jews. This is not true. They've been meeting with the PA in Moscow to discuss a new government coalition. When Hamas and other Palestinian leaders say "end the occupation" they just mean the military control/apartheid/blockade and illegal settlements within internationally recognized Palestinian territories. Even though there's a movement for a single secular democratic state for both Israeli Jews and Palestinians to live together, the majority of Palestinians just want to cut their losses and accept a 2 state solution along 1967 borders for the sake of peace and self determination free from Israeli occupation and blockade. The majority of Israelis currently don't want a 2 state or a single secular binational state, and neither does the government. The 2 state will need to be forced by international community. The US needs to stop enabling Israel's illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing, and stop being an impediment to Palestinian statehood along 1967 borders by not voting Yes with the rest of the world in the UN.
"If and when Israel and Hamas reach a deal for a cease-fire, the United States will immediately turn to a different set of negotiations"
Why? There is no place for Hamas at the table. It will and should be dismantled if there is any hope of remaking the Middle East. Perhaps the US should focus on that.
What kind of BS is this broadcast? Do you know anything about 2000 Camp David summit?
@@iliaprivine2506 we're a decade away from such a summit
Please America, just don't...
the new m-e plan was already determined before the attacks
Interesting discussion but your suggestion that Hamas is in anyway interested in a the creation of a Palestinian state in anything other than the entire territory between the river and the sea is not supported by any evidence.
Ok, my comment was premature as you addressed my point later in the discussion.
Recently Hamas has stated they would cease their fight with Israel if a Palestinian state was established.
Also, why would the Palestinians choose Hamas as their gov, if they had a state?
Read the Quran - you can lie or do Haram if needed to ie: against infidels...
You will note if you read their updated charter (this is kind of an addendum - they have never rescinded the crazy, spittle-fliging antisemitic diatribe of 1988) you will see that is not the case:
There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. Whatever has befallen the land of Palestine in terms of occupation, settlement building, Judaization or changes to its features or falsification of facts is illegitimate. Rights never lapse.
20.
Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea."
HAMAS defines itself as against the entire Zionist project. None of their actions make sense in any other context. They are exactly what they say they are.
13:00
Gazprom style construction deal teed up by Trump before 10/7 still pending completion of demolition phase.
I hope that the independent Palestinian State joins the BRICS! ❤
On the 7th, it is crucial to understand that there were no direct attacks on civilians, only collateral damage. Out of the 1148 total names on haaret dataset, 473 military and 675 were civilians.
Ratio of civilians to military personnel killed on the 7th was 1 . 4 : 1 - lower than any of the iTf "mowing" operations, which has a ratio of 7 : 1
According to UN OCHA data from 2008 to 2022; The collateral damage on the 7th was significantly lower than any of the ITf "mowing" operations, which had a ratio of 7:1 with 1,023 military personnel out of 6,541 total.
On the 7th, with 473 military (418 were iTf military personnel, 55 belonged to the police) out of 1148 total, the ratio of civilians to military personnel was a mere 1.4:1
When including all casualties, not just deaths, the collateral damage ratio of the "mowing" operations is a staggering 162:1
From the 161,233 accumulated civilian casualties over only 14 years of "mowing" operations.
A 162 :1 ratio means that for every 162 civillians, 1 military personnel is a casualty. The 7th had a ratio of 1.4:1, more than a hundred times lower.
The 473 are - 55 soldiers, 13 privates, 59 corporals, 200 sergeants (45 of whom were sergeant majors), 48 commanders, 32 lieutenants, 5 lieutenant colonels, 6 colonels, 37 officers, 10 inspectors, 6 intendents, and 2 Lance Corp. This was a military defeat, and they are taking it out on the rest.
The reported ages of the victims are as follows:
0-4: 2 civilians
5-12: 8 civilians
13-17: 14 civilians
18-25: 132 civilians
26-40: 119 civilians
41-60: 55 civilians
61+: 40 civilians
Active duty military personnel:
18-25: 258 active duty military personnel
26-40: 60 active duty military personnel
41-60: 17 active duty military personnel
61+: 1 active duty military personnel
haaretz datasheet titled title: xsraxl's Dead: The Names of Those Killed in Hxmxs Attacks, Mxssxcres and the xsrxel-Hxmxs Wxr
There is a more detailed report of of oct 7th titled "I scrapped the information about 1096 of the 1460 killed on 7th of October Attack. Children Less than 1%"
-Yocheved Lifshitz account - 'they treated us well'
-Yasmin Porat account - 'i.T.f kxilled my husband'
Civilians were taken to have swaps for the civilians rotting in prisons without charge on the other side. An excess of ten thousands, all before the seventh
UN Human Rights Office (UN OCHA) PA Civilians 2008-2023:
2008 - 2,325 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,440.
2012 - 3,992 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 255.
2014 - 17,533 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,492.
2018 - 31,259 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 300.
2019 - 15,491 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 138.
2020 - 2,581 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 30.
2021 - 19,183 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 349.
2022 - 10,345 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 191.
2023 up to September - 8,508 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 227.
civilian deaths on the other side -
2008: 3 , 2012: 6 , 2014: 73 , 2018: 9
2019: 10 , 2020: 0 , 2021: 9 , 2022: 26
Total; 2008 up to September 2023 - 161,233 PA Civilian Casualties, 1,023 military personnel.
Wounded includes: amputees from the deliberate targeting of knees by snipers, white phosphorous third degree body burns, etc
The "Costs of War" study by brown in 2021 has these figures for the past 20 years of engagement of US policy: indirect deaths 4.5-4.7 million, direct 905-940,000 ; in other words 6 Million Deaths and 38 million displaced. This is relevant because of the Oded Yinon Plan.
Let me guess, it will be an economic zone with Jewish oligarchs and merchants making ungodly amounts of money. You people should hear yourselves talk sometimes
Money is evil, when other people are making it!
@@Boymanjusri and my tax dollars paying for the whole thing. Get rich by sticking others with your bills. And yes your genocide is evil 😡
No little antisemitic, no. Israel as of now not even part of the deal. It's a US Saudi deal. Not a Jewish deal
Palestinian statehood was on life support pre october 7th. Hamas pulled the plug
Now that state is where the former Israel was.
@@crhu319now what? Using mouth bombs?
@@crhu319 nuclear-armed states. famously easy to destroy
Israelis murdering peaceful protesters in 2018 has nothing to do with any of that? And all the other violent acts visited upon innocent Palestinians before Oct 7th? It’s a long history. Read Bertrand Russell’s last essay before he died
It was never going to happen. One of the reasons that Israel helped put Hamas into power was to prevent that.
Saudi Arabia sees the sense of moving on. They're right. A Palestinian state anywhere near Israel is a nonstarter.
Its only a "non starter" for the israelis, a Palestinian state will be necessary just to avoid a refugee crisis. The israelis will have to grin and bear it, and remember who pays the bills.
There just won't be an "Israel".