In depth engine tuning with LPG liquid injection dual fuel | fullBOOST
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- How to setup and tune with LPG (Liquid Propane Gas) liquid injection with Tyrone Smith from Motorsport Electronics.
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#fullboost #LPG #enginetuning #motec #LPGinjection #LPGtuning
How to setup and tune with LPG (Liquid Propane Gas) liquid injection with Tyrone Smith from Motorsport Electronics. 👉 *If you’d like to be notified every time we upload a video, subscribe and then click the bell icon 🔔 next to the subscription button.*
@R h Hahaha it's running a Motec not a Microtech. See you on Bench Torque.
@R h wtf has turbo taxi got to do with anything? The fact that scotty blows up everything he touches and can't get the thing to do a 10 says it all.
@R h not being phased out at all. Scaled back yes but plenty of servos still being built with it.
Fantastic video. LPG is such an underrated fuel. Aussie made, 100 octane and cleaner, $1 a less cheaper in VIC right now.
@@d_zamb573 but lpg systems dont work according to R H. Guess my 3rz hilux has been running on fairy dust since 2003.
This would have to be one of the best Fullboost posts i have ever watched without a doubt. These days, it would seem, a lot of people struggle to legibly write an add to sell something, Tyrone Smith writes code of this calibre at smoko with a cup of coffee.
Only fullboost can make a 40 min video about LPG and make it interesting the whole time.
Cheers fellas learnt a lot with this one
Yeah, it was pretty good! I've been a qualified LPG installer for about 15 of my 21 years in the trade. This was comprehensively thought out. I could only imagine what he's charged the customer for all this. There's some serious hours in this set up, and years of knowledge from him
No thankyou Nollsy
Very much similar to a John Cadogan video!
Fucken Nolsy
Yee yee nah nah you're right
Great to see an ex Ford Australia engineer keeping his talents in the industry.
We lost so many talented engineers (current and future) when the Australian government walked away from Ford, Holden and Toyota.
The flow on of skilled engineers and technical staff from this industry into other industries stopped when we lost our skilled/value add manufacturing base industries.
Not to mention most of our top tier skilled citizens poached by the US/UK/EU during the downturn as well. Australia truly did lose out, big time.
There'll be some confused North American viewers between gas/gasoline/LPG/petrol/liquid gas.
LOL... 😂 What's not to get?!? 🤣🤣🤣
Confusing Americans with names or measurements? Surely not? I mean, how dare you!!!
😂😂😂😂😂
@@dazaspc Really? There has been CNG (Compressed natural gas) systems developed over the years. It is much cheaper, but it's never taken off like LPG did here. That's weird, I just assumed everyone had LPG- it's always been so common here
Hard to understand what the OZ gov is doing, drove lpg cars out of contention yet there are massive tanker loads of gas going overseas every day and massive loads of petrol coming in??
MIND BLOWN! This is one of those videos you'll need to watch 2 or 3 times! SO MUCH INFO, Best episode ever in terms of information and learning new technology!
Man, doesn’t a humble smart bloke like this make you proud to be Aussie?
Thinking the exact same thing. Zero arrogance with this guy, seems more than happy to explain everything. What a legend 👏
What an interesting guy. No interest in converting any of my cars, but felt compelled to listen to every word he said. He should definitely become a Fullboost regular.
Fuck I could listen to this bloke all day! beautiful video lads, this is absolutely quality content, and im glad you didn't "condense" the video
Old mate Tyrone is smart AF, but imagine how smart Jim “the Oracle” must be! 😳
This is great, great stuff!
Setting up a vapour injected LPG Holden V8 currently, which will run with Haltech.
The fuel composition measuring/modelling in this is amazing. And Tyrone has explained everything so well throughout the video. I really am blown away by the efforts in this creation.
Spectacular.
Super interesting. This man is a genius and super talented.
Having done my final thesis for my Engineering Degree on Liquid LPG injection many years ago, I found this brilliant to watch, that man is a walking book of knowledge. I'm glad he talked about the drop in intake temperature, we calculated that liquid LPG injection should have reduced intake temps by about 20 deg c in our situation, but we never got the chance to test it. I'm very glad our numbers match up.
@@athompson8976 it sure can, but then your entire intercooler piping system is full of an extremely flammable, potentially explosive mix of LPG and air, under pressure. Any leaks anywhere in the system would be extremely dangerous. Take for example, the coupling off the turbo starts leaking, right next to a red hot exhaust manifold, it's probably going to end in a fire at least.
People inject nitrous oxide pre turbo, but that's heaps less dangerous as it's not a fuel, just an oxidiser, so it would need another fuel source to start a fire/explosion
@@tx5brent, no, as with Ford Australia’s fairly awesome EcoLPI variant of their mighty “Barra” inline six, this engine’s LPG is injected as a liquid into the intake ports, just as with port (not direct) injection of petrol. So, there’s only air flowing through the intake manifold. 🚙
wow great video on LPG & Fuel. Excellent explanation Tyrone ex Ford Engineer. well done Fullboost as always great interview.
Glad I wasn't the only one sitting here in absolute awe of what this man is saying, came to the comments section and was not disappointed! What a legend.
Stoaked to see Tyrone back.
So knowledgeable and willing to share what he knows - love his aim to keep things as close to OE functionality too, would love to see more of his projects on here - always interesting stuff!
Pitty the government let our local gas industry go to the doldrums and the price is no longer competitive, otherwise more people would use it as a performance solution in their streets driven cars. Even the cabbies don't use it anymore as the price of having a conversion doesnt really get offset over the service life of the vehicle. But that's the logic of pollies for you, literally help yourself
There are a lot of LPG Camrys getting around 👍
It's still cheaper 79c as opposed to 1.50 ,but the government have managed to make a real cluster beep of the whole lpg industry ,including hollowing out the whole automotive sector and unfortunately there doing know better job with the war toys ie submarines already wasting 2billion over a 5-4 year period with absolutely nothing constructed or to show for it, imagine the car industry and job's you could have had for that ,enough to power it for well over 15-20 years and money spent on cars some what stays in Australia unlike Thai utes
I could listen to this dude waffle on all day.
Such a goldmine of info
Less than a year later LPG is back to being almost half the price of petrol!
I had a Gas Research setup (petrol removed) on a blue 202 with a YT alloy head back in the day.
18 cents a litre with a 110 litre tank, managed a 1000k's between fill ups.
Those were the days for cheap daily performance :)
That's a BIG tank for a little bit car!!! 😉
Yeah the gas prices back in the day I remember as low as 12c per litre
My old mans landscruise had twin 110litre tanks with a 350sbc
@@paullutherborrow637 Nice!
@@danielbrealey2924 VC Commodore and no petrol tank :)
@@geotard Ahh, a VC!!! I have a VC and a VH... For done reason I thought I read you had this set up in a Torrie. Don't know where I got that from now I read your comment again... 🤦😂
I think I may have just developed a man crush on Tyrone after watching this.
Now there's a head full of knowledge.
Great video! We need to get this guy on more often such smart and interesting bloke.
So much info to take in on this research haha, quite enjoyed this tech as not much has been done by many people, the time and patience that goes into protecting the engine is awesome. Cheers for the upload mate
hats off to all that research and development for high tech lpg on a clevo
Truly, next level tech here. With the ability to pretty much do anything, gather all that info and still be such a stout engine. Fantastic
This was fantastic!! and that guy is a legend!!!
thank you, so hard to find info, can you do one on boosted LPG.
I’m also interested in boost using LPG using the falcon format. It seems like an obvious option to lengthen the lifetime of combustion engine vehicles.
Been waiting for a quality video on LPG
Oh this is gonna be freaking good🤘
Edit:
I was right. Nice upload fellas 🤙
I had a choice between buying the turbocharged or the naturally aspirated LPG powered version of that car with the large 4l engine. Would love to have had bought the turbo but after driving both, deciding was a no brainier. I've never regretted it, as a matter of fact I celebrate it every time I fill up & of late more than doubly so. In addition...
Cost Insurance premiums saving (naturally aspirated v turbo charged)
Fuel cost per litre saved (LPG v Petrol)
Fuel cost of litres not used
Tyres & Brakes not expended
Fu(K,
I owe this bloke & Deadset Legendary mates at least a metric sh!ttonne of frothies & my thanks for a decade+ of flawless performance. 👍🏼
Many thanks for sharing so much knowledge Tyrone. :)
Very interested in this one. got an engine build in the works.
I was thinking about this the other day super cool video. The guy who commissioned this engine build is awesome.
I’m a little surprised that he isn’t using a bottle heater to keep the tank pressure consistent. I’ve always wanted to do a system like this with 16 injectors on a blown big block Chevy for the cooling effect
Curious as to whether this is being run on straight propane or the “Autogas” which is what is typically at any servo. Autogas had a percentage of butane in it, which many a seasoned taxi driver would tell you would give worse economy and performance. No I’m not a chemist, this is purely anecdotal.
From the servo 👍
SHHHH don’t let everyone know about getting more power on Liquid LPG 🤣
It's not exactly a secret bro... 🤔😁
In all fairness, most people wouldn't know
You don’t even need liquid injection lpg to make good decent power I’ve got a vl turbo on gas research setup making 465hp atw on 22psi and soon to be 500hp plus when new setup goes on it there’s quite a few little tricks to do to make it work
@@anthonywhelan8373 I totally agree, liquid injection is nice and all- it'll still make power with a traditional set up with converters and mixers. It's essentially running like a carb, and carbs make power too. Sounds like an interesting set up, I've got a built RB30 turbo in an R31 that makes similar power on 98RON and a bottle not octane boost with every fill... I've got my LPG installation licence, but at the shops I've worked at we didn't specialise in installations, we did a lot of diagnostic and repairs though. I always find these LPG performance set ups interesting. The fuel is pretty good for a few reasons, I'd always wondered how you'd go with boosted set ups with the fuel variations in different seasons. Do you just need to run it a bit fat and safe to compensate for those fuel variations? Or do you retune it as the seasons and fuel changes? I wonder how it would go with a 45 - 50psi tune, things get a lot more serious at those boost pressures and things you can get away with at our power level can grenade engines at 50psi
@@danielbrealey2924 hi Daniel I don’t know about the higher boost levels but I was struggling at 15psi at one stage to get the gas into the motor but put in twin 10 soft lines from tank to the twin converters this made it like a surge tank setup only reason I didn’t go higher on the boost at the time 22psi is I only had cast pistons in it now I’ve gone forged motor and going to at least 30psi if we can if there’s enough gas I shouldn’t have a problem though now as I obtained the setup of gas 747 vl that car went 9.40 1/4 and made around the 750hp atw not sure what boost though and yes it’s been a pain in the arse to get it to this stage like head been rebuilt 3 times kept recessing valves then went stainless and just the constant nagging from people that talked it down you won’t make anymore than 250-300hp with that shit
Wow aren’t they wrong and very quick to shutup now 😂 anyway it’s been a good learning curve but luckily it m a tech as well as a qualified lpg fitter too so a lot of cash saved by doing a lot by myself but still over $50000 gone into the car driveline over the different setups and gearbox combinations
This is awesome guys, thanks for making this video! Can you please do a little interview with this guy telling us a bit about his career with OE engineering, how he got into it etc. Very interesting!
This is so fascinating. I’ve always been curious about LPG since it’s very rare in the US.
Is it?!? That blows my mind. What did all the Crown Vic ex cop car taxis use? Normal fuel (petrol)??? Those guys would have made so much more money if they used LPG. It used to be 1/3 the price of fuel, our government got greedy and kept pushing up the tax on it with the aim of making LPG 75% of the cost of fuel, but you use 15 - 20% more volume in gas... So it's not worth the cost of conversion now. We don't have any LOG only vehicles coming out of OE's anymore- so no more development... Kind of shame
@@danielbrealey2924 Well in the US gasoline was never expensive until recently. When I first started driving in 2002 it wasn't much more than $1 a gallon and that was in a more expensive area of the country. I'm guessing it's ridiculously expensive there?
Here they have vehicles powered by methane instead. Cops all used regular "petrol" cars lol. Most of the methane vehicles are city vehicles like busses. I don't think the police even use hybrids now that i'm thinking about it. The crown vics would use regular gasoline 87 AKI which I think is 91 for you.
Another thing you might think is funny is where I live on the west coast we only have 91 aki premium. I think that is 95 for you. Gas on the west coast out here is shit. It's also expensive. I looked up the average price for 95 ron in australia and I actually pay more than you do. But then again I get the tradeoff where I can basically drive a race car on the street with no inspection or emissions so we got that going for us lol
Only recently have busses been converted to methane or hybrid systems. Fuels here are super cheap. I was paying $2.43US per US gallon for our lowest grade gasoline( petrol) which is 3.7L until I moved. Now it’s $3.23 per US gallon.
I’ve only seen forklifts and really old Ford Rangers use LPG.
@@The1860th Geez, fuel's still cheap compared to what we pay. For low grade stuff (91RON) I paid about $1.40 this week- but I've seen it as high as 1.70 a litre. Our highest mineral based fuel is 98RON and usually about $0.30 more a litre. The way you guys advertise octane is a lot better, with the RON+MON/2 calculation. MON is much more important than RON
@@danielbrealey2924 we get 85, 87 & 91 here at around 1650m in elevation. 91 is over well over $4USD/ gallon. Our lowest is about 3.05 and our highest grade is between 3.70 & 4.30 depending on the gas station.
Still cheaper than down there but not by much
Always good to listen to a 'ROCKET SCIENTIST' like this guy. Have a safe and nice day all. CHEERS from AUSTRALIA.
imagine thinking you knew it all about EFI tuning. Then you meet this bloke.....
That's the thing, the more you know- the more you realise you don't know it all!!!
There's guys who tune a car, Then this guy that tunes the ECU that tunes the car.
@@BJK1987AU There are guys who build their own ECU's! It's not so common these days, but guys used to build some high end ECU's in the States in their back sheds!!!
He lost me at interpolate but cool stuff, lpg was only known for low powered taxis in my day.
Very good video boys
The LPG injectors looks like fords gasoline injectors but their coils resistance is ≈ 3 Ohms , when fords gasoline injectors coils are ≈ 15 Ohms ? I suppose that LPG injectors has also stronger plunger closing spring since they works on higher pressures .
Im such a dinosaur I'm still perfectly happy with carburetors, lpg vapor mixers and manual transmissions.
Can you run another 2 or 4 injectors in the plenum or anywhere after the throttle body to make up fuel flow for the target hp. Yes taking up more volume early in the intake but also cooling the air that is in this area aswell. Just thinking and wondering out loud. Great project. Lpg💪
Sounds like a good idea to me- like back in the day when people were starting to play with turbo cars in the '90's
@@danielbrealey2924 yes same type of setup. Im sure these guys have had that though. If its not viable im interested to know their thoughts.
@@8power857 running injectors after the throttle body won't allow accurate fuel distribution to each cylinder due to how each cylinder pulls in air. Considering on the lengths hes gone to refining the system and bulletproofing, it wasn't an option.
@@blkidiot i would think that depends on the level of vaporisation achieved, but with lpg boiling at -36*C or thereabouts liquid fuel is still highly likely where the runners meet the plenum. So yes a good point there👍 This is where a traditional vapour delivery setup prior to the throttle body 'might' be useful to simply supplement an extra 100hp or so worth of lpg vapour, this would not be subject to poor distribution, would take a minimal extra ammount of 'air space' in the intake tract, the effect of cylinder temp from fuel delivery in vapour form would be negligible due to the huge heat absorbtion of the 530hp worth of liquid fuel boiling off. Of course this is all hypothetical unless tried. Again thinking out loud and happy to hear thoughts in return. 👍
@@8power857 I would think throttle body petrol injectors like Holley Sniper EFI use would make more sense and be cheaper. The gas delivered upstream displaces air more than fuel droplets (on a petrol-only setup) and is the volumetric efficiency achilles heel of vapour-type systems. 👍
I use vaporized LPG in my car, bi-fuel converted. Honda J35Z2 5A/T swap in a Nissan Sentra B17. Been driving this swap for over 5 years and still going strong.
Having the lpg sticker on the number plate makes it easy to fill your 45kg bottles for your home in the back of your ute at the servo.
sooooo
could you feed nitrious true the lpg system when it runs on gasoline?
Jika guna ron95/97 pula acane gayezzzz?..next
You know you are learning when you need to pause three or four times just to comprehend what has just been said.
Great video... Building an EFI Cleveland myself and would love to get more details on the 351 Crank Tone Wheel kit Please...
how come you have a problem with the amount of liquid gas, and I don't have a problem with gas in port injection in my car, chrysler 300c, 5.7, with 6.1 srt cam, prins lpg, power around 400hp, no difference between gas and petrol on any rpm/power, it runs 12 a/f normally, for years, no problem
Very good and informative vid, i have researched doing a boosted liquid lpg only setup but injector flow is the issue looking at 4-450 crank hp on a 2l six (currently 300rwhp with impco blow through@24psi) i could spend hours talking LPG with Tyrone .....still thinking.
Hi Andrew exact same situation... have a blow through gas research 6 and wondering if it's possible to liquid inject it. Where is tyrone and how to contact ?
@@jackkaratsos8858 he is on LinkedIn however I am fairly certain the good people down at Octane Alley in Geelong Victoria would put you in touch
Well there is a true direct lpg injection system on the market. The Prins DLM 3 system. Inject liquid lpg through the petrol injector direct in the cilinder. I think this is the best lpg solution at this moment. The vialle LPI system (like in the video) is a indirect lpg liquid injection system (works good by the way).
Hello, since you mentioned the difference in propane - butane proportion in summer / winter times of the year, when there is no additional sensor to monitor the proportion of them, what would be the best safe way to tune the ecu for all year driving ?
I had a problem, in 2nd gear when accelerating, the mixture became lean over 3000 rpm, I replaced the copper pipes 4-6mm with plastic 6mm and no more lean mixture
One person cannot know so much. Wow
Mr Tyrone Smith IS one very Smart Cookie,, A Gas fuel whisperer!!! (JEDI Master) Keep up the excellent work🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
I love it when you talk nerdy to me... 😆
In some countries LPG is 0.06 usd/Liter
I for one pay the 3rd of the price of gasoline in LPG
I converted my A18XER insignia for 456 usd Landirenzo evo
I have just been informed by a UK supplier of Vialle LSi liquid phase injection systems that Vialle went bust over the summer (2022). Prins have acquired Vialle's intellectual property and they have told me that they will not be selling any Vialle's LSi system kits, only spare parts to existing customers. Perhaps Westport Fuel Systems would rather we all forget about LPI technology. Anyone seen a Zavoli LPI system either?
you could put 2 vaporizers with a bigger tube from the reservoir and it would be 10 times easier and it would work 100% on gas at all powers
Is there any more information on what Jim did to the OEM fuel pump to raise pressure? 14:12. Or as these available to purchase anywhere?
Absolutely wicked information
A very smart man to eternity
That is one SMART Dude!
All that for 10hp gain 😳
I’ll stick to my 50hp gain from flex 😂
Yeah but he's paying 79c a litre you're paying 1.69 a litre almost double the cost and he could run e85 as well instead of 98 and lpg was available all over Australia and really if the government had been smart with the whole industry lpg would have stay at 50c a litre and the equipment/know how would have been price competitive and made it an affordable conversation Australia wide
Alright, now I wanna see a meth injection kit and some boost! Let's see how much more complicated we can get here! 🧐
Am hoping to be pointed in a direction, am wanting to lpg convert a f250, any suggestions are welcome.
I did not know this was a thing until now. I knew wood-gas has been used and hydrogen. but not LPG.
Amazing video.😍
What customer has enough money to pay for this? Sounds like 500k of R&D?!?!
Damn 😅 at 2:05 you said lpg and gasoline are almost the same price whereas here in Greece, lpg costs 1/3 of what gasoline does 😅
Very different but very neat.
Great vid, very informative and gives insight into performance tuning
Sounds like Broomy..LPG days
How can you make a piggy back system for a diesel
this is cool
Thanks, Great video And Great Job.
What a nice guy
Whats this guy's contact information
What are the lpg injectors worth ?
Great Job Thanks Great Video too .
Great Job Thanks Great Video too .
Great Job Thanks Great Video too .
pretty unique
have you tried it on 108 octane in it ?
Put some more jet in the carby mate
I played around what you doing now years ago when lpg was 3rd price of petrol. ..ı had 2 separate computer systems running 8 injectors. .major issues I had you use 2x closer to 3x more lpg than fuel for same amount of hp out of the engine. ..and lpg is 2x heavy than water. ..running fuel and lpg together. .I didn't find much point I think their is better or alternative if for HP methanol water injection. Is owner driving one side of country to other side. ..just leave it as duel fuel ..between both tank's probably close to 1000 km
👍🤘😎🇦🇺
Thanks Great Video
clean burn. bulk price. cooler intake temp.... 12.5:1 with proper cam timing make wonder on lpg. definitely harder on the valve and valve guide as its dryer. this should be much more popular
Can you make a video on vapor LPG injection? I have a Stilo 1.6 103hp converted to LPG (in Greece it's 70%-30% & in summer 90%-10% butane/propane). Currently running on 100% LPG I feel like the engine makes less power above 4000rpm. In the winter though it seems that LPG is making higher power on low RPMs. Should I just petrol enrich it or maybe I can recover all the lost power by remapping the ignition advance map on the petrol ECU (and somehow switch it)?
LPG is a dying fuel in Australia so highly unlikely there will be many more videos on this subject. Good luck on your project.
@@fullboost Thanks for the input. My main problem is that the engineering bibliography on vapor LPG injection is rather poor. And as I don't have access to a dyno, I have to go by the trial and error method.
25 years of Motec and they just wrote OBD 2 ....I bought a motec M4 from a bloke who wrote a thesis on propane injection back in about 2005 i chewed his year off for near 2 hrs I wonder if it was that Jim bloke what an outstanding video and what an exceptional enthusiastic mastermind that bloke is ,,, Shane T level stuff its inspired me to Finnish my duel fuel build LPG E85
So with the right intake, I could run liquid injection lpg as well as an old school Carby and my original air cleaner? I have 70s Ford with a big V8 I'd love to do this to.
Gents:
Would like to request specifics (LPG mechanicals and EMC) for a ~500 hp LSx engine. Not much use here in the States.
Cheers
I wonder if he would do a LT1 based system for me? have my eye on a Bedford truck project and this would be the perfect marriage. More torque and economy for hauling, stick it on the strip and could hold its own and have some fun as well.
I have a VTLS1 running the same system making 260 kW at the back wheel get 450 k’s to a $40 tank
Sweet stuff