Fr. Seraphim Rose on Rene Guenon (Reading)
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
- An excerpt from a letter by Fr. Seraphim Rose to Fr. Damascene Christensen.
Music: O Give Thanks Unto The Lord - Byzantine Chant Psalm 11
• Orthodox Chant in Engl...
Text source: / 193464612262837
After reading Guénon I became a hundred times more devout of a Christian, and have heard the same from others. He is an intellectual saint as far as I’m concerned.
Same here! To think that the writings of an Islamic convert would make me a Christian.
Same!
What book do you recommend?
@@the300XM8 1. Introduction to the Study of Hindu Doctrines (misleading title, really an intro to Guenon / Traditionalism)
2. The Crisis of the Modern World
3. The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times (his magnum opus)
4. Symbols of Sacred Science
The channel 'Kali Tribune' has a must-watch 5 part lecture series on the 'Reign of Quantity'
@@prostagma7234 thanx
Guénon's brilliance is unsurpassed by anyone in esoteric and religious insight. He will make the Hindu a superior Hindu, the Buddhist a superior Buddhist, the Muslim a superior Muslim and the Christian the superior Christian. His Integral Tradition has shaped my worldview and academic study of Comparative Religion. Guénon is right on the beauty, power and authenticity of the Orthodox Church. Fr. Seraphim Rose was uncompromising in his search for truth and Orthodoxy, and it was great to learn he was so influenced by Guénon and studied under Alan Watts.
Guenon greatly contributed to me leaving behind my agnostic theism and rediscovering my native religious tradition.
There is one superior to Guenon, and that is Frithjof Schuon. As Martin Lings (who himself is known for his superb biography of Muhammed) said: "Everything that is in Guenon can be found in Schuon, but there is much in Schuon that cannot be found in Guenon."
Yet perhaps Guenon is somewhat easier of access, especially his two books "Crisis of the Modern World" and "The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times". Still if one has the aptitude for it, Schuon goes somewhat beyond Guenon and even corrects him in some places.
I dont rate Guenon that highly. The same with Schuon. Interesting thinkers but a little bit pretentious, as perennialists are, in studying Eastern religions. Nothing beats the natives created and educated in their own cultures and religions. Not western wannabe hindus, buddhists, sufis. In the case of India they are the orthodox thinkers of Sampradayas like Advaita, Vishisttadvaita, Dvaita, Acintya Bhedabheda Tattva. Great sages like Shankaracharya, Ramanuja, Madhvacharya, Jiva Goswami, Kapiladeva, Narada Muni, Sridhara Swami, Rupa Goswami, Srila Saraswati Thakur and Patanjali
@@latitudeselongitudes1932 I think we are best off eventually turning to the saints of a given tradition, true. But, the perennialists are an excellent initial antidote to modernity- specifically because their work addresses itself to the modern person, raised in a modern context and education. Those with spiritual aptitude may be able to bypass such intermediaries of tradition, but for others it may be a longer, more winding journey. In any case, wherever we find ourselves on our road back to God, we should save ourselves from the pride by respecting virtue and tradition, and not comparing ourselves with others. My own path turned from Schuon, to Plotinus, to David Bentley Hart, to Sergei Bulgakov and finally to the early Christian Fathers. Regardless of tradition, something analogous seems to occur in all paths, if followed far enough. Although sometimes a meager spiritual "attainment" may tempt one to fall off the path and become a New Age guru of some variety or other. Some neoadvaitins seem particularly prone to spiritual pride and forget their roots in traditional vedanta.
@@koffeeblack5717
True Advaita followers are sannyasis and ascetics who study Sanskrit and the Sariraka Bhashya and not those popular types with RUclips followers (mostly female). The same is true of Yoga, which in the West is seen as a hobby of urban women. Divorced from its roots. Yoga is not just asanas and pranayama. It is also yama, niyama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana and samadhi. The contribution of the perennialists is valid and relevant, I just don't like any artificial and pretentious ecumenism. There are indeed points of contact between different traditions but there are also differences, some of them essential and irreconcilable
Thank God. I’m So glad he mentioned the Kali Yuga. It’s important it’s well known that This Saint of a Man was highly educated. Yet he realized all that education was useless without God. This is a intellectual Titan truthfully and he’s so humble you’d never know it. Thank God for Blessed Father Seraphim Rose 🌹 ☦️
Rene Guenon/Shaykh Abdal Wahid Yahya is probably the greatest master of symbolic sciences and integral metaphysics in the West since the High Middle Ages - Le Roi du Monde, The Reign of Quantity, The Great Triad et al. are incomparable works characterized by sublime luminosity, clarity and precision. After having studied Guenon in good faith one's eyes are opened, never to be closed again...great video.
Thank you for your work on the review Oriens!
@@servus_incognitus Many thanks and God bless!
Very well articulated. From your fellow Muslim human. Thanks for that lovely comment.
More or less my path of return to Catholicism. Excellent video, keep it up please.
Traditional Catholicism = Pre-Vatican II/Tridentine Mass/Sedevacantism. The Latin Mass has been under attack by the heretic(s) in chief at the head of the snake. God Bless
“The Chinese spiritual tradition would disappear entirely if communism prevails in China for another 10 years”
Hmm Guenon was somewhat right. Chinese spiritual traditional still technically exists but the amount of people who actually seriously practice it in the modern day is very, very minute. Kind of shocking when you think of it because this was once one of the most widespread religious tradition in the world, spanning the entirety of China and many parts of east Asia for thousands of years, now is mostly just an aesthetic at best for people.
Still, the "chinese mind" which Seraphim wrote about is still the Chinese mind, even if somewhat hidden beneath a fairly thick layer of materealism. The spiritual tradition could seemingly vanish completely, but the traditional nature of the Chinese soul would remain, and might even penetrate to the surface without a direct overthrow of the present regime. That might not be sufficent, it might not happen fast enough, but it still puts China in a better position than the contemporary west is inn, and is reason enough to support the formation of the fourth-coming Chinese civilization-state.
That was always Guenons point that the heart must be activated in order for it to be authentic. Although the mystic experience is immersive but not lose sight of God's work on a vertical plain. We will not get into the errors inherent in jingoistic approaches to matters of spirit and soul. God has armored us with all truths despite their apparent difference's but we must choose a pathe and only one for our ascent up the mountain top.
This is an excellent channel
Thank you.
To think that the writings of a Muslim convert would be instrumental in my becoming Christian again. 😝
With his absolutely dispassionate intellect, Guénon realised that Islam resolves the endless arguments over the Trinity, and offers a fully operative initiation. In this he followed Ivan Aguéli.
Nice.
how does seraphim solve guenons issues with christianity? the exoteric-esoteric problem for example
What issues are you referring to?
If this is what you're referring to, here's a response I made to another comment on this video:
He didn't grasp the fullness of Guénon's teaching. In other words, he still mistakes the exoteric for esoteric, and places himself exclusively on the exoteric field; that's why he, as an Orthodox Christian, rejects Roman Catholicism, which is not only erroneous, but even comical given that he accepts the "truth in other traditions". Not to mention his claim that "Guénon said Orthodoxy was the purest form of Christianity", which is all but hilarious: Guénon almost exclusively referred to Roman Catholicism as the primary and most orthodox form of Christianity, and only mentioned the virtues of the Orthodox branch in a few of his writings, mostly his letters.
Edit: that being said though, his counsel is still of very great value.
@@servus_incognitus yeah this is pretty spot on, correct me if im wrong, but seraphim rarely engages with the metaphysics of guenon and just assumes he fully understands them, then dives head on into the theology and creates something mostly alien to an avid guenon reader
@@servus_incognitus maybe dugins interpretation of guenon regarding orthodoxy is more interesting considering he synthesizes a lot more schools of thought
@@Flammenhagel he places himself in an exclusively exoteric domain. There's nothing wrong with that as long as you don't mix things up. However whenever he mentions Guénon like in the letter above, it seems he mistakes the exoteric for esoteric, not to mention that he ignores everything Guénon teaches in regards to the necessity of a regular initiation in a regular esoteric organisation (which stems from the fact that he's a purely exoteric practitioner of course). This confusion in regards to the religious and esoteric orders is very similar to the confusion propagated by Schuon and his followers on this topic.
In any case, Father Rose is still a valuable author, given that we don't have much of a choice in our age when it comes to initiation anyway; the doors are pretty much closed in any direction you look, except for very few exceptions. One has only to be careful as to not let his limited, strictly Eastern Christian outlook encroach upon deeper domains.
Didn’t RG say that there is no authentic tradition left in the Orthodox Church… even after visiting MT Athos ?
Hi can any one tell me what music that was?
It's this: ruclips.net/video/qSff415cOVo/видео.html
I always list the music I use in the description and at the end of the video.
What does he mean when he said that his conversion had "nothing of emotional excitement about it"
Spiritual thinkers such as Guenon are very critical of sentimentalism and the overemphasis of emotion in the sphere of religion. Spiritual enlightenment happens on a higher plane than mere feelings. Perhaps that is what Rose meant.
Why Guénon look like a perfectly anthropomorphized Tibetan fox?
Too sectarian in tone for my taste.
Yeah, Fr. Seraphim was a fairly hardline Orthodox Christian from what I've read. I was actually surprised at how generous he is being towards Guenon and Traditionalism here.
@@flavius5303 He has a great quote on the "New man"
He didn't grasp the fullness of Guénon's teaching. In other words, he still mistakes the exoteric for esoteric, and places himself exclusively on the exoteric field; that's why he, as an Orthodox Christian, rejects Roman Catholicism, which is not only erroneous, but even comical given that he accepts the "truth in other traditions". Not to mention his claim that "Guénon said Orthodoxy was the purest form of Christianity", which is all but hilarious: Guénon almost exclusively referred to Roman Catholicism as the primary and most orthodox form of Christianity, and only mentioned the virtues of the Orthodox branch in a few of his writings, mostly his letters.
Edit: that being said though, his counsel is still of very great value.
@@servus_incognitus I think the rejection of Catholicism by Seraphim Rose has much more to do with how he saw that, after the relativistic and Modernist Vatican Council II, the ecumenism of both churches seemed to him instrumental in the creation of the world religion of the Antichrist.
I don't think it's based that much in theological questions or disrespect for Catholic Tradition. Whether the Papacy is biblically correct or not, it's easy to see why it's hierarchy can be seen, from a Christian perspective, as a dangerous base for a wider corruption of the Church. This is not absent in Catholic prophecies, though.
His view can be read in the last Lecture of his Survival Course, talking about a Solovyev text on that theme.
Regarding his understanding of Guénon, I'm far from well versed in Guénon and haven't read many of his texts, and I think one must be very proud to assume he has fully grasped his intellectual heights. But I think his teachings completely follow what a Traditionalist should do. He found the absolute depth of the Orthodox Tradition, espoused it and gave its life and wisdom in a way that even the simplest mind can be illuminated by it.
Other heirs of Guénon, like Evola, may be more lucid and broad in their negative critique, but end up, in their positive affirmations, having a fairly relativist, individualist and nihilistic view, and I think that can't be denied of Evola.
Other Perennialists, like Jünger, embraced Catholicism while integrating in it the wisdom of many other Traditions, but I don't think the average person can understand Jünger, he's always been a writer for an intellectual élite. Rose, however, can with his words reach the Heart of any peasant.