Maximum rim brake widths for most brake callipers is 28mm outside width. The Winspace Lun Hypers are 27.6mm outer width. Although on my R5 there is heaps of space left, could probably go around 30mm max width. A 23-24mm inner width would be too wide for most rim brake bikes?
George Vargas runs rim brakes with 30mm tires on a current ritchey road logic….could easily build wider internal rims to accommodate 28c tires and have the same room with a more aero profile and then you’d have liter tires.
Nice wheels! I lately bought ICAN, 50 mm deep, with 240 hubs. So great to ride. They also included dedicated brake pads, with wider and slightly longer surfaces compared to Shimano R55-s.
Hello, I previously used R45 SE (textured/cuts surface) and I was extremely happy with the braking, even under a downpour in Mallorca. Unfortunately these were on my stolen Ultimate, so now gone. I got the R45 as replacement and at the beginning I was surprised that it seemed to be no braking track at all, as the finish is very similar to the butterfly design of the whole rim. So far the braking in the dry is amazing, I hope I don't have to try them in the rain. I am using Winspace pads for now, maybe will try Campagnolo next.
@@fede1275 thanks for comment, that’s a relief to hear! I feel the braking will be pretty good in the wet but I haven’t been caught out in rain so far (summer in Australia so maybe thunderstorms!)
keep your eye on the break surface, there was a recent report on YT from another fellow rider who discovered an inconsistent breaking surface thickness. WS fully owned what happened and it was a QA issue. Stay safe.
It was a different model wheel and yes there can on occasion be manufacturing issues with any brand and in that case Winspace replaced the wheels. What we don’t know is if it was a manufacturing issue or damage caused by the guy not installing the tyres correctly and using a lot of force with tyre levers.
Thx for the information. Really helpful. Do these wheels matched with GP5000 28’s fit SRAM Red callipers? I plan to put them on a 2014 SW SL4 and would love to know if there would be enough room for the rear wheel running the 28mm tyres. The stock 2014 Roval Rapide CLX’S with 17mm ID provide fairly average braking performance!
@@EddyCat1234 I have no idea if the SL4 can even fit 28mm tyres? I think the frame has a max width of 26mm? If that’s the case then I don’t think it will fit. My R5 has a max width of 28mm and even then it’s only just clears without much room to spare. It’s not so much about the 28mm tyre, the wheels themselves are 21mm internal width which overall makes the tyres wider than if you install 28mm tyres on 17mm width wheels
Currently I’m using 105 rim brakes with the default Shimano pads on alloy wheels, not even considering carbon wheels because of all the rumors. Besides the improved brake tracks on the carbon wheels, does one also need special pads or also better brakes ?
They come with new carbon pads in the box! Your 105 should be fine. I do however highly recommend Campagnolo Carbon pads for Shimano (they also make Campagnolo Carbon pads for Campagnolo, make sure to buy the right ones for Shimano!) as I’ve found these pads to be the best overall for stopping power even in the wet Also beware most older rim brake frames cannot accomodate wider tyres and wheels! If your bike can’t take at least 25mm tyres you may have problems fitting these wheels. The area of greatest concern is wheel and tyre clearance of the rear wheel down near the bottom bracket in between the chain stays. My Cervelo R5 can easily fit 28mm tyres and possibly even 30mm as there is heaps of clearance down there, most rim brake frames from 2017 or earlier have extremely tight clearances down there even on 25mm tyres with 17mm or less internal width wheelsets
Which you reckon would be a better performing wheelset between the hypers vs the WTO rimbrake. If cost of the wheels were not taken into account.. Would like to hear your thoughts?
The WTO 45 only have 19mm internal width, that would be the only downside to them. After 2 weeks of solid riding (400km or so) I’m sold on wider internal width! Handles so much better and running lower psi is the future!
Hey mate, textured surface is 2014 tech! I owned and ran two most common textured braking surface wheelsets - Enve Gen 2 and Zipp Showstopper and both are terrible (esp in the wet!) compared to the newer tech Schmolke TLO and these new Winspace Hyper 2023’s. I have no idea what they put into the brake surface except that it’s a matte carbon finish that is untextured. Remember that the big western brands have stopped developing carbon rim brake since they are pushing discs since around 2019 so they have not progressed the tech since then. These smaller independent brands on the other hand have continued to develop rim brake. Another key example of lack of development: the lightest rim brake wheels that the big brands made Enve 3.4 SES with 2.0 brake track and Zipp 303 NSW for example weigh ~1350g and these new wheels are much deeper, much wider, tubeless compatible and are 1185g or in the case of Winspace same weight! That’s cause those other wheels are 10yr old tech. You can’t buy the big brand rim brake wheels new anymore anyway
@nightrider7474 I totally agree with lack of modern development. But, I do believe that those older high end wheels are superior. I have 40k miles on a Camoy rim brake wheelset. I have heard stories of the Winspace bubbling under braking due to, too much heat. I have never liked any carbon rim brakes in the wet and I heard those Gen 2 Enves were the best in the wet. So, interesting to hear your take... I wonder how the Winspace perform in the wet. Grooves or textured surface in theory sound much better in the wet than a smooth track.
The Enve and Zipp are ordinary in the dry let alone the wet. The Schmolke TLO are the new gold standard, I’ve ridden them in all conditions and they stop really really well even in downpour. Thanks for heads up on Winspace and heat. The Schmolke advertises super high temp resin as part of their features where as Winspace are silent on that. I’ll keep an eye out for it during long Aussie summer
I have the zipp 404 NSW carbon wheels and they’re just fine. My brake tracks are just fine. I run the Swiss top black prince brake pads and they stopped really good. Trek 2013 Madone p1 w/ Dura Ace 9000 . of course I would like to get a wider tire. It seems like your bike set up as a rim brake Cervelo , can accommodate a size 28C Tire. I don’t know if my frame would be able to handle that even if I upgraded the wheel set to what you have here. My zip wheels are just fast and roll so well I don’t really want to give them up just for a couple millimeters or so larger internal with with the new wheel set.
@ “Just fine” is just fine but I’m saying the newer wheels are “wow good” in comparison. I agree with you though the zipp’s are just fine, I’ve ridden them 30,000kms, but swapping bikes to the new wheels sets shows a huge and noticeable difference in braking power and modulation.
Do you have any experience with the DT Swiss ARC line of wheels? And if so, how do you think they compare? Been looking for some new deep section rim brake wheels. Also great vid, feels like getting advice from a friend
@@b.smitty5273 sorry have not! I know the ARc wheels are heavy though… thanks for kind words! I’m a straight shooting guy without much filters though haha
@nightridercycling Seems like very few people have haha, I'm having a hard time finding proper reviews. They're about 150g more than the Lun R67's, but I ride a lot of flat kms and I'm no featherweight either. So ride feel/stability, braking performance and overall reliability matter more to me than weight
@ in terms of aerodynamics in a straight line the Lun Hyper R45 are excellent, almost as good as last generation Zipp 404 NSW which are 58mm so I’m sure R67 will be mega aero. However the issue is about these carbon spokes, I’m unsure about the reliability? I’ve ridden them 1300km now without a single issue but longer term reliability is uncertain? I don’t expect a problem but I’m not looking forward to breaking the first spoke on these wheels?
Any recommendations if one still wish to stay on aluminium rim brale wheels? I don't care for the weight, but would like it to be atleast 40 mm rim depth
I don’t think so, very rare to see aluminium rims deeper than 30mm. I’ve seen some super old aluminium rims with carbon fairings to make them deeper but you’re talking 2010 or earlier.
Glad to know I’m not the only one who rates the campy pads! I haven’t used the Winspace in the pouring rain yet, but they are excellent in the dry so going by that they should be decent in the wet? I’ll report back first time I get caught in the rain (once a year at my rate!)
I too have a pair of Fulcrum Racing Zero Carbon C17 (a bit older generation) but the braking is also very good on those. No idea if they have improved on them since but I can tell you the Schmolke are even better braking, Winspace about the same
Haha I’ve had the opposite experience. I had latest generation 11spd Dura Ace di2 on my SL6 Tarmac with direct mount brakes and they were really really hard to actuate (needing more force to actuate). The SRAM Red with EE Brakes are feather light, 1 finger braking…
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Never seen those wheels before, thank you for sharing. Long live to rim brake!
I have the same set….hoping for yet another generation of rim brake wheels with 23 or 24 internal rim width
Maximum rim brake widths for most brake callipers is 28mm outside width. The Winspace Lun Hypers are 27.6mm outer width. Although on my R5 there is heaps of space left, could probably go around 30mm max width. A 23-24mm inner width would be too wide for most rim brake bikes?
Probably…until we get rim brakes back and few mills here and there to increase these minuscule amounts we’re lookin for.
George Vargas runs rim brakes with 30mm tires on a current ritchey road logic….could easily build wider internal rims to accommodate 28c tires and have the same room with a more aero profile and then you’d have liter tires.
Nice wheels! I lately bought ICAN, 50 mm deep, with 240 hubs. So great to ride. They also included dedicated brake pads, with wider and slightly longer surfaces compared to Shimano R55-s.
Hyper R45 is the best value rim brake wheelsset you can buy right now! As long you not riding in wet 😅 or you can get Hyper 23 SE
Thanks for heads up! Lol I’ll be more careful in the wet if I ever get caught out
Hello, I previously used R45 SE (textured/cuts surface) and I was extremely happy with the braking, even under a downpour in Mallorca. Unfortunately these were on my stolen Ultimate, so now gone. I got the R45 as replacement and at the beginning I was surprised that it seemed to be no braking track at all, as the finish is very similar to the butterfly design of the whole rim. So far the braking in the dry is amazing, I hope I don't have to try them in the rain. I am using Winspace pads for now, maybe will try Campagnolo next.
@@fede1275 thanks for comment, that’s a relief to hear! I feel the braking will be pretty good in the wet but I haven’t been caught out in rain so far (summer in Australia so maybe thunderstorms!)
Love my pair of hyper 67s but I do find the Shimano pads kinda lacklustre. Hopefully a new set of swisstop pads will do the trick
I have tried Swisstop in the past but I’ve found them not as good as the Campagnolo Carbon pads for Shimano
keep your eye on the break surface, there was a recent report on YT from another fellow rider who discovered an inconsistent breaking surface thickness. WS fully owned what happened and it was a QA issue. Stay safe.
Yes I saw that video! Thanks, I squeezed mine all around on both and they seem good 🤞
It was a different model wheel and yes there can on occasion be manufacturing issues with any brand and in that case Winspace replaced the wheels.
What we don’t know is if it was a manufacturing issue or damage caused by the guy not installing the tyres correctly and using a lot of force with tyre levers.
Thx for the information. Really helpful. Do these wheels matched with GP5000 28’s fit SRAM Red callipers? I plan to put them on a 2014 SW SL4 and would love to know if there would be enough room for the rear wheel running the 28mm tyres. The stock 2014 Roval Rapide CLX’S with 17mm ID provide fairly average braking performance!
@@EddyCat1234 I have no idea if the SL4 can even fit 28mm tyres? I think the frame has a max width of 26mm? If that’s the case then I don’t think it will fit. My R5 has a max width of 28mm and even then it’s only just clears without much room to spare. It’s not so much about the 28mm tyre, the wheels themselves are 21mm internal width which overall makes the tyres wider than if you install 28mm tyres on 17mm width wheels
@@EddyCat1234 yes the sram red calipers have ample room to clear 28mm tyres as I run this on my S5
Currently I’m using 105 rim brakes with the default Shimano pads on alloy wheels, not even considering carbon wheels because of all the rumors. Besides the improved brake tracks on the carbon wheels, does one also need special pads or also better brakes ?
They come with new carbon pads in the box! Your 105 should be fine. I do however highly recommend Campagnolo Carbon pads for Shimano (they also make Campagnolo Carbon pads for Campagnolo, make sure to buy the right ones for Shimano!) as I’ve found these pads to be the best overall for stopping power even in the wet
Also beware most older rim brake frames cannot accomodate wider tyres and wheels! If your bike can’t take at least 25mm tyres you may have problems fitting these wheels. The area of greatest concern is wheel and tyre clearance of the rear wheel down near the bottom bracket in between the chain stays. My Cervelo R5 can easily fit 28mm tyres and possibly even 30mm as there is heaps of clearance down there, most rim brake frames from 2017 or earlier have extremely tight clearances down there even on 25mm tyres with 17mm or less internal width wheelsets
@ currently maxed out at 28 on my 2007 specialized that I keep on tweaking :)
Thx for the pointers!
No problems! I was going to say only two rim brake bikes I know of that can do 28mm, the other one being a Tarmac!
Which you reckon would be a better performing wheelset between the hypers vs the WTO rimbrake. If cost of the wheels were not taken into account.. Would like to hear your thoughts?
The WTO 45 only have 19mm internal width, that would be the only downside to them. After 2 weeks of solid riding (400km or so) I’m sold on wider internal width! Handles so much better and running lower psi is the future!
Nice ride m8👌
Thanks ✌
How is the brake track on the Winspace? Is there any texture to the surface?
Hey mate, textured surface is 2014 tech! I owned and ran two most common textured braking surface wheelsets - Enve Gen 2 and Zipp Showstopper and both are terrible (esp in the wet!) compared to the newer tech Schmolke TLO and these new Winspace Hyper 2023’s. I have no idea what they put into the brake surface except that it’s a matte carbon finish that is untextured. Remember that the big western brands have stopped developing carbon rim brake since they are pushing discs since around 2019 so they have not progressed the tech since then. These smaller independent brands on the other hand have continued to develop rim brake.
Another key example of lack of development: the lightest rim brake wheels that the big brands made Enve 3.4 SES with 2.0 brake track and Zipp 303 NSW for example weigh ~1350g and these new wheels are much deeper, much wider, tubeless compatible and are 1185g or in the case of Winspace same weight! That’s cause those other wheels are 10yr old tech.
You can’t buy the big brand rim brake wheels new anymore anyway
@nightrider7474 I totally agree with lack of modern development. But, I do believe that those older high end wheels are superior. I have 40k miles on a Camoy rim brake wheelset. I have heard stories of the Winspace bubbling under braking due to, too much heat. I have never liked any carbon rim brakes in the wet and I heard those Gen 2 Enves were the best in the wet. So, interesting to hear your take...
I wonder how the Winspace perform in the wet. Grooves or textured surface in theory sound much better in the wet than a smooth track.
The Enve and Zipp are ordinary in the dry let alone the wet. The Schmolke TLO are the new gold standard, I’ve ridden them in all conditions and they stop really really well even in downpour.
Thanks for heads up on Winspace and heat. The Schmolke advertises super high temp resin as part of their features where as Winspace are silent on that. I’ll keep an eye out for it during long Aussie summer
I have the zipp 404 NSW carbon wheels and they’re just fine. My brake tracks are just fine. I run the Swiss top black prince brake pads and they stopped really good. Trek 2013 Madone p1 w/ Dura Ace 9000 . of course I would like to get a wider tire. It seems like your bike set up as a rim brake Cervelo , can accommodate a size 28C Tire. I don’t know if my frame would be able to handle that even if I upgraded the wheel set to what you have here. My zip wheels are just fast and roll so well I don’t really want to give them up just for a couple millimeters or so larger internal with with the new wheel set.
@ “Just fine” is just fine but I’m saying the newer wheels are “wow good” in comparison. I agree with you though the zipp’s are just fine, I’ve ridden them 30,000kms, but swapping bikes to the new wheels sets shows a huge and noticeable difference in braking power and modulation.
Do you have any experience with the DT Swiss ARC line of wheels? And if so, how do you think they compare? Been looking for some new deep section rim brake wheels. Also great vid, feels like getting advice from a friend
@@b.smitty5273 sorry have not! I know the ARc wheels are heavy though… thanks for kind words! I’m a straight shooting guy without much filters though haha
@nightridercycling Seems like very few people have haha, I'm having a hard time finding proper reviews. They're about 150g more than the Lun R67's, but I ride a lot of flat kms and I'm no featherweight either. So ride feel/stability, braking performance and overall reliability matter more to me than weight
@ in terms of aerodynamics in a straight line the Lun Hyper R45 are excellent, almost as good as last generation Zipp 404 NSW which are 58mm so I’m sure R67 will be mega aero. However the issue is about these carbon spokes, I’m unsure about the reliability? I’ve ridden them 1300km now without a single issue but longer term reliability is uncertain? I don’t expect a problem but I’m not looking forward to breaking the first spoke on these wheels?
Any recommendations if one still wish to stay on aluminium rim brale wheels? I don't care for the weight, but would like it to be atleast 40 mm rim depth
I don’t think so, very rare to see aluminium rims deeper than 30mm. I’ve seen some super old aluminium rims with carbon fairings to make them deeper but you’re talking 2010 or earlier.
Thanks for replying, much appreciated 👍🏼
@@nightridercyclingDon't HED still manufacture such wheels?
@@sbccbc7471 no idea sorry
HED Jet are your best bet. I know yoeleo can custom make a deeper set with aluminum brake track
Are you using campy brake pads?
Yes, Campagnolo carbon pads for Shimano blocks. I’ve used many brake pads in the past and have found these to be the best performance in dry and wet
@nightrider7474 I have tried a few carbon rims and campys have the best stopping power that i have tested. Good to know the hypers are great too.
Glad to know I’m not the only one who rates the campy pads! I haven’t used the Winspace in the pouring rain yet, but they are excellent in the dry so going by that they should be decent in the wet? I’ll report back first time I get caught in the rain (once a year at my rate!)
@@nightridercycling campagnolo wheels also have the best rim brake performance, i like them better than aluminum
I too have a pair of Fulcrum Racing Zero Carbon C17 (a bit older generation) but the braking is also very good on those. No idea if they have improved on them since but I can tell you the Schmolke are even better braking, Winspace about the same
I've found SRAM to be the worst rim brakes for modulation and power. Shimano a lot better. Campy probably the best but Shimano nearly as good
Haha I’ve had the opposite experience. I had latest generation 11spd Dura Ace di2 on my SL6 Tarmac with direct mount brakes and they were really really hard to actuate (needing more force to actuate). The SRAM Red with EE Brakes are feather light, 1 finger braking…