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Why Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 Was (and Still is) Important
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- Опубликовано: 13 май 2017
- So I've been able to revisit Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 and it's remarkable how well that game holds up. It's legitimately almost flawless. It's also incredibly distant from actual skateboarding, however, especially when examined in a post-Skate world. So why was the Tony Hawk series ever considered an accurate representation of the sport?
In this video, I want to argue that it's precisely because Tony Hawk 3 is so video game-y in its approach. Through the purity of its mechanics and systems, Tony Hawk 3 presents a more distilled vision of what it means to skate than any of the later games in the series.
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Edited out a joke at around the 6 minute mark about Chad Muska because hey, it felt unfair.
![[Paris Olympics] Performance by Australia's Olympic Break-dancer Rachael Gunn breaks the internet](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/i1rl1KhKIjE/mqdefault.jpg)
YT seems to be pushing this video a little more recently, which is unfortunate considering I just put out a video on skateboarding games that leaves this one feeling a little outdated. Watch it here: ruclips.net/video/dWrFw33sjT8/видео.html
Honestly, my favorite Tony Hawk game was THUG. The whole story line of going pro, skating for enjoyment vs. for money, and your rivalry with Eric Sparrow was actually super interesting to me. I find myself coming back to THUG more than any other Tony Hawk game after all these years.
Fantastic video. I grew up with the THUG series and while I enjoyed it at the time, it's very true that it's narrative and culture behind it feels very dated. The purity in learning to grow as an individual is rather beautiful, and it's great to see a video that really nails why THPS3 is often considered the best.
Raycevick What is this? A crossover episode
Raycevick oooo, the nostalgia.
white, lines...
Raycevick i like pro skater 4 cause i grew up with it and still have a physical copy of it
OH HEY IT'S THAT GUY
(seriously thanks man your latest video is really great too and people should totally watch it)
"it's very true that it's narrative and culture behind it feels very dated"
Honestly, it wasn't good even back then. At least for me it was something I had to bear through to get to the awesome gameplay. And the gameplay WAS great. It's still my second favorite game in the series after THPS2. Sadly, the follow-up in form of American Wasteland wasn't that good - maybe except minimizing Bam Magera's appearance.
Idk why people hate on underground so much. Underground brought a great twist to the series that was getting stale at the time. I maybe because i played it as a kid and found the humor in it. I just remember underground made the series feel fresh again.
RiceCrustyTreat i agree with you, the only two Tony hawk games i had when i was younger were pro skater 3 and thug 2 and to be completely honest i plated thug 2 more.
RiceCrustyTreat it probably wasnt just because you were a kid. I played it again a few months ago. It's still entertaining. It's not to goofy like THUG2, so you can connect with the story and the characters more, but still doesn't take it self to seriously. It's just fun. And, as you said, the series was kind of stale at that point. THUG added something new to it. People love playing some single player games, especially when you create the character, because then you sort of get to go through those stories. And what kid playing THPS didn't wish they were a pro-skater?
RiceCrustyTreat Thug1 was really enjoyable, you felt like you were the pro, thug2 didn't have a drive to continue the game, and was kinda boring
I played THPS all the way from the first release until it died. THPS was legendary at the time, it's like an RPG skate-game. That kind of personal connection to the protagonist (you) and everyone else was so cool.
I agree. Up until underground was my favorite and in my opinion the prime of the series. Underground 2 was just to whacky. I think the majority of people like it for nostalgic reasons. But in my opinion it should of just been a jackass game and not part of the series. The only other game I liked was project 8. And that one I barely I liked.
I grew up on THPS2 and THUG2. Still some of my fav games to this day. I wish my PS2 still worked, I would play the shit out of them if it did. You also really hit the nail on the head with the whole mastery bit. When I played THPS2, I didn't have a functioning PS1 memory card, so I couldn't save my game. So what I did instead was run through the career mode every day, start to finish, resulting in me becoming very concerned with perfection, and improving my skill immensely.
Ha, I also knew the pain of not being able to save games. Led to me getting reaaaaally good at the first few hours of every PS1 game I owned. Thanks for watching!
Now I really miss sitting on the carpet and listening to punk music while making custom levels in this game when I was 12.
Tee Toes *punk music* 😂😂😂😂
Jack Waterhouse Whats funny about him pointing out the great Punk songs in the game?
That purple pants skater is an eyesore
Seriously, why would you use such a horrible skater design for all your game footage?
how dare you criticise my Very Good Created Boy, CRUMBO DUMBASS
God bless the mighty Very Good Created Boy, CRUMBO DUMBASS
Perhaps to emphasize how little it really matters while playing the game
Honestly, it's more just that I enjoy the idea juxtaposing in-depth analysis with some real daft stuff. It's something I try to sneak into most of my videos. If people don't like it, fine I guess! Ain't gonna stop!
"Who is Bam Margera?" Im sure he is more recognizable than most of the skaters included in the series
Viva La Bam
Jackass
Even then i was who before jackass got big
He made the cover of thrasher magazine years before jackass. He was a well known skater.
He was in CKY then jackass then viva la bam then jackass movies
There is something really important for me about the Tony Hawk's Levels, something that makes the earlier ones better than THUG 2 and American Wasteland. To me, the levels are not only about lines and scores, but also a big deal about familiarity, atmosphere and liveliness. In that matter, the Pro Skater games are way ahead of the later ones because their archetypal levels offer more than the generic city levels. They have something inspiring on them, creating their own enigmatic stories, instead of levels just consisting of random rooftops and streets. The carnival will forever be burnt into my brain with its sunset sky, the weird balloon clown and the lurking alligator, but after years of playing I still get lost sometimes in THUG 2's Berlin and Nawlins because every corner and every street looks the same. I will always remember Kenny the Koala at the Zoo entrance, the pee guy in Canada, the Barbecue douchebag in Suburbia or the voice announcements by Captain Jennings, but wouldn't care for the random NPC's in THUG 2 in my wildest dreams.
Agreed. TH2 and TH3 are the gems.
I have this argument often with my friends. They all swear up and down that THPS2 was the best, but the addition of the revert in THPS3 unlocked the full potential of the franchise's original vision. It's like the first two games were the rudimentary rough drafts and the third was the polished final draft. Everything about it was just perfectly done and nothing was out of place.
Also, THPS3 had Motorhead.
i prefer 2 because of the maps, the gameplay is rough compared to the later games and revert isn't even the only reason, doing manuals in a combo requires a really awkward timing, but even with all that, the maps in that game are AMAZING.
I personally loved THPS 4 the most. even though it wasn't, it felt so big and open. it made exploration less stressful (no timer).
After beating the last competition(Tokyo) while Body Jar's "Not the Same" playing in the background. I felt like i accomplished my whole life
Very nice video, failed to mention the amazing soundtrack, 3000/10
You make a very compelling argument for THPS3 being the best of the series. I’m glad I watched this video - it reminded me of why I loved the series in the first place. Well done, mate 👍
I was just playing the game a few weeks ago, and yes, I can confirm literally everything in this video. It still feels as fresh, timeless and mechanically deep as it did when it first released. Great analysis as always.
This and 4 (especially 4 since I played it first, though you're right about the lack of time limit taking away from the experience) were my childhood and I still adore them both.
I would agree with you if THUG, THAW etc. ONLY had the career mode, but like every classic Tony Hawk game you could go the arcade mode straight from the menu, easily. And sincerely, the later titles didn't represent skate culture differently from the earlier ones, same aesthetics, MUSIC, spray paintings etc.. I like your videos but you can't ignore these two huge factors.
Last month I played THAW with my friends and had the same "pure" experience as you described about THPS3, silly skating, going on rafters, telephone poles and what not. Just select CLASSIC MODE/HIGH SCORE instead of career and you are good to go :)
in terms of longevity, I think THPS2 is the only one that still holds up to this day but without a doubt, mechanically, THPS3 is the most refined and pure arcade skateboarding game to date. its one of those games that had it been made today on the PC using an open source engine, the community would still be supporting it through mods (similar to half life, skyrim, fallout ect.).
You deserve the 50000 if not more,I thank you for bringing your wonderful analysis of games!
I agree that THPS 3 was the height of the series. The jack assification of the later series killed it for me. Like you said, this is a game more along the lines of a Crazy Taxi than a Skate.
Rad Rat said that THUG2 today is pretty good.
Love your channel. Writing on Games and NoClip are exactly the kind of content I've been craving for games.
I was like eight when this game came out and it blew my mind. I loved all of them up to underground 1, and also played the fuck out of 2 before this one, but 3 is the best. I remember playing this with friends for hours, and maybe it's because suburbia is in this game but it always reminds me of October, which happens to be my favorite time of the year. Also the soundtrack is flawless. Great video man.
THPS3 still my favorite tony hawk game always enjoyed it on the original xbox i was 4 years old playing it non stop the secret tapes were great until my xbox wouldn't shut off late at night it scared the living hell outta of me my favorite character in the game will always be Neversoft eyeball
have a small gripe regarding ur take on combo efficiency being quantity over quality. the tricks get stale if used to frequently,as does the combo counter. continously use a special, for example, n the point value will not only b diminished, but so will the speed of point accumulation. not only that, but the combo counter will start adding .5, rather than a full digit to the product.
I recently bought a copy of this to get my 12 year old nephew into it (he's trying to pick up skating.) Through all the crazy xbox one/ps4 switch games there are available nowadays, he INSTANTLY fell in love with THPS3 and still obsesses over it to this day!
For me, underground 1 as always the best.
I played that game to death as a kid. I also played it to completion twice in preparation for this video. Any section that isn't skating is reaaaaaal bad. Still some of the best level design in the series though. Just, man... stealth sections? In Tony Hawk?!
THUG was fun. Double tap really put a damper on it tho, for me. Manhattan sure was a great level though. One of the best in any THPS game in my humble opinion.
Denonono Hardcore New Jersey, manhattan, slam city and Tampa are such great levels
The mission at the end where you have to grab all the tapes in one combo is fucking brutal.
those stealth sections are kinda fun
Tony hawk 3 is my all time fav game
Damn, how do you do such a perfect job describing my feelings EVERY. TIME. XD
It's weird to think I grew up loving almost all of these games, and hearing people still talking about them makes me want to dust off my PS2 and play them again.
I know adding this comment is going to recommend this video to more people, but I seriously don't agree with many of the points made about the later Tony Hawk games. I never knew anyone who saw skateboarding or being a skater as a status symbol; it was a culture and an extreme sport that got more reverence and relevance thanks to skateboarding games like the THPS series. THPS 3 is an important game to the series because it ironed out and finalized the foundation of what the series' mechanics would be for years to come, adding in much needed moves like reverts to make longer combos and higher scores possible. The series post-THPS 4 was more story based but had the same types of missions sprinkled throughout them just less placed as lists of objectives for each area in the game and more sprinkled throughout the loose plot.
What made Skate the dominant skateboarding series during the late 2000's and early 2010's was the fact that it came in while the Tony Hawk series was dying due to fatigue and attempting to make "innovations" to the series's formula that ultimately weren't needed. That didn't start happening until around the time of Project 8's release, and the only games that were really trying hard to cash in on the skateboarding culture were the poor motion games Robomodo developed, Ride and Shred, which used that barely functional plastic board. Going beyond that, Skate has always been seen as more simulation heavy versus Tony Hawk's more pickup-and-play arcade styled gameplay. I know you might not have intended to convey this during your video, but Skate didn't force out Tony Hawk, that series became its own worst enemy until the unceremonious end to the series with Pro Skater 5 (I know THPS 1+2 is coming in the near future, but my point still stands).
While younger players today might not immediately know who Jackass, CKY or Bam Margera are, I don't think they're going to be put off by them or their antics. Hell, assuming they're visiting the series in order of release, they should have some idea of who Bam is since he premieres in THPS 3! There are dated references in THUG, THAW, and THUG 2 especially, but it doesn't harm the core gameplay; by that same merit every game in the Tony Hawk series are instantly dated by the rosters and product placement littered throughout them. Many of the skaters in the earlier games retired or dropped off the face of the earth, and many of the brands who sponsored the games either don't exist or make skateboarding products anymore. It seems you aren't happy with the juvenile sense of humor and plot of THUG 2, which is fine it's not up to everyone's tastes, but your arguments against it while putting THPS 3 on an awkward pedestal just baffles me.
You're conflating the mechanics of an earlier Tony Hawk game with the juvenile plot and presentation of a later game, even if unintentionally, which is very much an unfair comparison to make. THUG 2's mechanics and gameplay are virtually identical to that of THPS 3, and even adds more moves and foot placement styles to further refine what THPS 3 started. THPS 3 also has no plot and relies entirely on objectives, while almost every game after it had some sort of plot that gave context to the same types of missions. If you don't like the plot, that's fine, but the games weren't made any more convoluted by taking off with THPS 4's mission structure. I'm done typing up this essay of a comment, peace.
Watching some combos made me feel the controls like I was playing..
Btw I like how you understand game mechanics and what makes a videogame good, in a time where gameplay is dumbed down for "realism".
Hands down best Tony Hawk game ever made, and yes it is absolutely true that it is a timeless one too 👍
Man, now I really want to go back an play this game. As a kid I really loved the level design, there was always so much to explore
I missed the conclusion because I burst out laughing at "Crumbo Dumbass"
One of your best, man.
Congrats on 50K subscribers! It's defiantly well deserved! Hope to get there myself one day. :D
I always thought of underground and American wasteland not so much capitalizing on the rebellious teen phase but more so capturing the liveliness of youth and freedom as the two games always had maintained a tone that you could just screw around but you were just a kid that a couple guys saw some potential in or just wanted to have some fun with. It also reminds me of a lot of the comradery these games delivered as even though I was never a hardcore Tony hawk game fan, I played most of the games just because of how you could always have a good time or learn something new with a few guys and a weekend of the multiplayer, like I remember the day I realized I didn't have to just jump and grind on as much as possible to win a game and even with American wasteland and thug's narrative I felt a sense of just being with the guys.
Beautifully done. You have successfully transformed.y emotions and criticism into a video. Bravo.
THPS3 is my favorite out of the whole series of games. I even bought it last year on GameCube, again. THUG, THUG2 and American Wasteland were fun but, they definitely shifted the focus.
Great video, though I wasn't as keen on the THUG 2 dismissal. Your points are valid, but it's still the last great Tony Hawk game and the ultimate evolution of the series structure. In my opinion.
What are your thoughts on the Classic Mode added in later Tony Hawk games? They use older levels and a traditional 2 minute time limit.
THPS2 was the king for me. It's always the one you play first, and that one was it. Best soundtrack too. I guess most people here started on THUG
For me, my faves are 2, 4 and THUG.
2 was similar to 1, but better due to having manuals and create-a-park, and I love 2's soundtrack.
4 was the first to have a free-roam career mode to explore and go through things at one's own pace, and had a bit more realistic presentation than 3 with the levels (The Piers in San Fancisco, Alcatraz...also, I eventually went to see the real-life locations after playing the game), and "meeting" skaters in certain goals.
THUG was the first with a story, starring your created character, and had one of the best create-a-park modes ever, with a great variety of pieces, and even allowing you to create goals in your parks.
These are the kind of TH games that got me into skateboarding cuz they were a little more reflective of reality while also indulging my imagination, and assuring me I could go about things my own way and pace, to an extent.
THPS4 and THUG1 are the peak of the series, fight me
I have to agree on all of this. THPS3 is my favorite skateboard game of all time. I played this game to bits, and I used to be a skateboard fanatic, skating for 5-7 hours every single day, as long as time and weather allowed it, during junior high and high school.
I could actually do a lot of the tricks done in the video game, but being able to just do them by the push of a button made me appreciate them so much more. But I also want to point out that, in this series, basically all combos you are able to pull off, are more nonsensical to skaters, than anyone else. Even so - this sort of stuff brings more people in - I wonder how many people who are skating now, just because of THPS..
I could easily score 2 million points on a single level in this game, on a 2 minute deadline,, without even completing a single goal.
What this game did for me was simply doing the impossible - I know my limits, and I know the limits of any other (even pro) skater, and this game made it possible to do just what you wanted to - or to exceed those limits. And that's what made it great for me. If I just wanted to score sick combos, I could do it. But if I wanted to 'accurately' simulate a real skateboarder through a game, I could also do it.
The only game I've played more than THPS3 is FIFA :D
Glad people are still doing videos on the Tony Hawks Pro Skater series, but as a person who has played bought and owned every single Tony Hawk game since release and HASN'T STOPPED PLAYING THEM TO THIS DAY (this is important), THPS3 doesn't cut it for me anymore. And this goes for most if not all of the active THPS community like that seen on THUGPRO. The mechanics offered in THPS4-THUG2 are way better and more fluid than in the older titles. Going back to play three and not being able to level out in the air to continue a combo instead of wasting your revert speed sucks. So much more skill is involved in mastering the mechanics of the Underground games because they offered so many more choices to continue your combo and it ends up being so much more fun, free flowing, and open. People who are THPS casuals, who will occasionally pop in the game just to revisit are most likely not that great at the game and so they play the simpler ones. A noob going into the THUG games would get absolutely annihilated because of the sheer amount of extra mechanics added to the gameplay. There is no way I could go back and play the limited mechanics after mastering and still improving on THUG mechanics, specifically THUGPRO. Awesome community there. I don't understand the hate on THPS4-THUG2 in this video. Those are some of the best games in the series when it comes to gameplay, but probably not from a casual player point of view.
007nikster2
I grew up playing THPS 1, 2, and 3. I was getting each launch title by the time THUG released for Christmas.
To this day I still think that 3 is the best "classic" game, 4-THUG2 have the best mechanics, but THPS2 is my favorite overall. I always went back to playing THPS2.
Your argument on mastering a harder version is valid, but ridiculous. Yes, the games had loads of new features and mechanics, but they felt more bogged down than freeing.
Congrats on the 50k! Also I definitely like the videos you make on older games a little more than newer games. With new games I'm just forming my thoughts and opinions on them while with old games I already have what I think about them set in stone, so to see them put in a different and much more analyzed light is really interesting!
Great vídeo! As a child, I played THPS2 the most, but 3 is awesome too. Since then, I never really liked any other skate games - even Skate 3, I just don't know why, but I think that game is boring -, but THPS2 I still play until today and is very fun! It's a shame that I am so bad.
What do you think about the classic mode in THUG2? I also don't like the story mode much, but I really like the level design. Though it doesn't cover all of them, the few THUG2 levels to get the classic treatment turned out really well.
I love these game series! thu2 was brill and the thps3 was great i wonder what games will there be in the future about skating
videogamedunkey summed it up pretty well in his review of THPS1. "The whole game is the best part of the game". Those first 3 TH games were lean, streamlined gaming experiences and almost 100% of the gaming experience was PLAYING THE GAME. No saggy cutscenes or story, no superfluous gaming modes, no unwarranted baggage. Just pure, uncomplicated, arcade style gaming goodness perfected.
Thank you very much for this excellent review. I totally agree with everything said in the video. Personally, I would place this game somewhere in the top 10 best games of all time, too many countless fun & enjoyable hours went into it. I entered this game as the worst amateur on the planet, and exited with the pro confidence to take on the champions of the world, I'm not gonna lie, I did enjoy THPS 4 also - however, had I not played THPS 3 first, I wouldn't have played or bought the 4th edition and THUG 1. I only played the sequels with the excellent skills & experience I gained from THPS 3 - that game was the original classic for me, and it was my gaming skateboarding school so to speak. 10/10
don't care what anyone say's, I loved THUG2 when I was a kid and I love it now.
Great video. This is one of the few games I still lust after. One of the greatest video games of all time
I agree with so much in this video. I picked up this game last week for gamecube and have gone through 4 careers 100% . Just delighted in the movement and constantly feeling rewarded with the unlocks. I am enjoying it so much that it caused me to search thps3 videos to listen to while playing through again.
I would buy Skate 4 in a heartbeat. Even a remaster of the original Skate on PS4 would be really fuckin' nice.
Serpico's Beard Or backwards compatibility for skate 3 on ps4 and xbox one. Those games are the best. I love the early thps games but it's targeted more towards kids in my opinion.
What you said from 4:34-5:00 reminded me a LOT of Hitman (the newest one). That game also has a lot of "learn the level, get better and you will see the rest of the game like an assassin."
Just bought thps3 and completed it, then bought thps4...am considering binning it and wiping my thps3 card to start again. Your vid is spot on.
I hope you do a jet set radio video.
Not familiar enough with the Jet Set series as it stands, although who knows, I might go back to it someday!
Whaaat?? GO PLAY IT!
you should i highly recommend it
that was a crazy good game
This is legitimately my favorite game.
Couldn't agree more, the first 3 games were iconic and timeless, which is proven by the reception of 1+2 remaster. I wouldn't even consider buying Underground remaster as a 30 yo who remembers the classic games
I actually vastly prefer Tony Hawk's Underground and Pro Skater 2. I liked Underground because it translated skater culture into a videogame pretty well, atleast at the early stages, without going over the top like they did with Underground 2. And I prefer Pro Skater 2 over 3, exactly because quality was more important than quantity during gameplay.
Although the THPS series was excellent, i still love THAW, mostly thanks to nostalgia but hell, i have a blast playing that game
i didn't really cared much about the UG series, mostly thanks to THPS3.
3 is literally what got me into skateboarding and gaming 💜
Well said. Still play THPS3 on PS1. Best skating game for me.
Best version for sure.
awesome video way above what i was expecting when i saw in feed. ive been skating since a kid and games i like the most are as you pointed out take the similar disciplines skating has like doing long thps combos around the map, smash bros melee tech skill and cool speed run tricks in sm64. thought it was really cool you bought that up
Underground 2 has a classic mode that is longer than than 3's with branching path's and it has a much more elaborate system of tricks. What 3 does have that the other Tony Hawk games don't, however, is it's physics system and cheat codes.
It feels faster and a little more dangerous than the later games. It feels even faster when you can't rely on doing flatland combos when you lose momentum. And it's got the expert mode cheat code to make pulling it all off even harder. Makes it fel more intense. And you can even use the 1st person mode cheat, which really changes the feel of the game, even if it technically plays the game.
Masterpiece video. thanks!
I STILL have Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 on PS2 today! I had my copy since I got it for Christmas in December 2003 along with the light blue PS2 8MB memory card that I still use today! Still runs beautifully!! Nostalgia!!
I'm still I giant fan of THUG1 & 2 but this was an excellent video, and I can completely see your points; well done
It’s interesting how everyone has their favorite game in the Tony Hawk franchise. I think 3 is the best. Same thing with SSX 3. Imo both of these are the most sublime to play making them the overall best games in both franchises.
SSX3 is one of the closest steps to game perfection, only drawback was the weak PS2, Xbox port/Xbox One X obviously addresses the performance issues but that control scheme is super gimped
Couldn’t agree more about ssx3 I had it when it first came out and I still play it regularly to this day.
Great vid I agree with everything!
THPS 3 gave me so many great memories as a kid.
In some way, this is also why like the first thud. It mostly focused on career side of being a Pro skater not too much on the prank side. It's kinda a middle ground between thps and thud series.
I think THPS3 is the best one. It's old-school like THPS2 but developed enough to enjoy it over and over with easy to understand goals and best levels in THPS history.
As a person who grew up on THPS3, when I first played through THUG, I felt like I was waiting for the "actual game" to start the entire time... It's just weird.
Nah THUG was better.
Pro Skater 3 will always be one of my favorite games. Granted I never played the SP just goofed off in Spit Screen with the unlock all cheat lol. I am going to have to do a more serious play through at somepoint.
It's ironic isn't it, that THUG 2 re-introduced Classic Mode as an alternate way to play the game. In my opinion, American Wasteland played in Classic Mode is the epitome of what you were discussing here, because the movement systems were refined so well in that game, but forced into another narrative.
My favourite is Pro Skater 4, but I adore 3 too, great video : )
I will forever love the first Pro Skater as it laid the foundations for everything and made skateboarding cool again at the time. Pro Skater 3 is just perfect and will always agree that it's one of the greatest video games of all time.
But the immature side of me that once enjoyed being an asshat, will always love the Underground series and American Wasteland, maybe not so much for that it did to the series but because it brought into reality what its like to follow a story and have skateboarding revolve around it, however ridiculous said story was lol till this day I haven't found a better video game moment than being dressed as an alien boardsliding down the Santa Monica roller coaster to show to Tony Alva.
you’re god damn right it is
I remember THPS & THUG... The first from each series. Both games break my heart. They remind me of my childhood and the early 00's. Good times.
I've been skating since the early 90s and I strongly agree with your video. As an adult, I cannot play THUG because it cringes me out. I prefer the sport.
What you said about bam at 6:30 made me lol
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 got Wolverine and Darth Maul as Exclusive Characters on THP3 plus its a Classic Game.
idk why most critic thug 2 (admittedly thug1 isn't that good) in some bad or dated way when the level design is still great, there's the classic mode and even the story mode (skipping the cutscenes) while having no time, I and people I knew playing it, used it to get familiar with the levels and still try to do a big combo. Where's the good part in urgency with a time limit when the tricks and levels are mechanically satisfying af?
You are in the top 10 channels on RUclips in terms of quality, insight, and enjoyment.
Best of the Pro Skater games
I played and beat this game for the 30th time again last summer. one of the best, American sk8land on ds was good too
It'd be cool to see you do an analysis on how other games both stayed close to the vision and roots of what the 3rd game carried out and how they got more distanced over time. What other games in the series do you think come even marginally close to what Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 achieved? And which ones are the furthest away (aside from THUG2, of course)?
I have no doubt in my mind that Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 is one of the best games in the franchise. It's something you can pick up and play (just as I did when I was a kid, it being my first TH game way back on N64). It does offer a sense of clarity and focus that I think did signal an "end of an era", so to speak.
I definitely see where other games in the series eventually got distracted or disillusioned with itself. Hell, the Neversoft devs had to crank a new game out from like 1998 well into the late 2000's. That's a decade of one game after another. And while I love games like THAW, THUG and THPG, it's also easy to see how the series came to rely on each yearly release leaned on its various gimmicks so heavily. It had to to stay fresh and relevant, especially in the light of a year's given milieu.
Suffice to say, it's also easy to see why the Skate games took over. It was a "return to form" for the extreme sports genre in which it could be far more grounded than ever before. Even Skate 1, as rough as it is, has a much different feel than THPS3 -- and that was intentional. It meant to simulate realistic skateboarding to a T, and it succeeded far better than anything the Neversoft devs could have put out.
Even so, your video points out why Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 is so much of a classic. The gameplay of the series has always been addicting, and to this day, I still think the third game in the franchise stands on its own as a clear and concise ideal of what skateboarding was and could be. I do like how the games threw narrative into it, but I can see how others would think the gimmicks and everything else in the later games are just tacked on ideas, especially since THPS3 was the "last" game in the series to keep the essence of the first two games intact.
I guess the emphasis on "skater culture" really does get going in THUG, but I think that only helps to give the game its charm. Many games in the series, such as THUG2, THAW, and THPG really revel in the culture that skateboarding created for itself. But in a way, I think that makes those games feel more authentic and really drive home what skateboarding is all about.
You mention that the later games (particularly THUG2) are juvenile. As a skater, I gotta say I love that. Skateboarding isn't meant to be taken seriously. Just like the franchise has always thrived on its arcade-like gameplay, it's also shown skateboarding in a very real and relatable way. Skateboarding is a very individualistic pastime. But by the same token, when you get with your friends and you all hang out and skate and relax, being juvenile and having fun are really at the forefront.
You might try to play a game of skate or dare/goad your friends into doing one trick or another. You might have little spats and get pissed at one another. You might just sit there and talk and barely skate at all. But at the end of the day, it's the community of skateboarding that really makes it what it is. And that juvenile nature/tendency is organically brought out by the community itself. It's for that reason that even though Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 does have a clear vision of what skateboarding is, it doesn't quite give a full picture. Each game shows a different side of skateboarding, I think. THPS3 just happens to have one of the more stripped down and focused views of it.
Even down to the soundtrack, though, the Tony Hawk series has always tried to show what skateboarding was, how it was seen by others, and how skaters themselves saw it. And with countless artists from the entire soundtrack, you'd always get some bit of attitude, whether positive or not, that reinforced skateboarding. Just like skateboarding is individualistic, so too is music taste. The TH series proved how effortlessly the two could intertwine and bounce off of each other. Just imagine how many kids got into skateboarding, or even into the bands featured in one game or another. What I really love is how the games all have their own interpretation of skateboarding, the lens in which it can be viewed, and a complementary soundtrack that reflects it.
I went through a marathon about three years ago where I played 1-THUG. They do hold up remarkably well.
Thank god, everyone keeps saying that THUG is the best in the series. but there's something about the simplicity of the older games that made them special.
the underground spinoffs were underrated gems. Yeah the jackass gimmick was kinda meh but the levels were mostly pretty memorable and well designed, and the soundtrack still rings in my ears to this day (THPS4 will always be king though)
Though I agree with a lot of what you are saying and the fact that I think the first three games were likely the best or purest anyways. I think one could argue that skate culture as a whole is juvenile and the later games still represents skateboarding for the good and the bad.
Neversoft is the best of Activision's studios: I really loved the THPS games until Underground 1, loved their first Spider-Man game, loved the way they managed to adapt to Harmonix' Guitar Hero once they were handled it.
THPS3 is absolutely a better game but underground series represents skating better. Like come on, do people really get into skating "for the love of the sport"? First and foremost it was a cultural statement (don't know if it still is) and all the growth and progression came much later and for the few that stayed with it. For me those games were always about interesting environments and fun stuff you can do with them and THPS3 didn't care about my enjoyment: it was "get good or fuck off" with it. So I fucked off and some time later I enjoyed underground 2 much more and also gotten much further skill-wise than I did in THPS3 because I stayed with it more.
A more accurate representation would have been a game that starts like underground with all the edgy narrative elements but by the end is pure mechanics like THPS3 but of course as a product it would have been a very confusing thing.
You just nailed why I hate the THUG games so much. People absolutely love them, which I'm not going to say their opinion is less valid than mine. But to me, that's when the series began going downhill fast. The THUG games tried to be way too many things, and totally lost sight of what made the original 4 games so great. The first THUG game was alright, but started playing too much with introducing new mechanics that just didn't make sense in a Tony Hawk game, and THUG 2 was - and still is 0 utterly ridiculous. Maybe I can see why people liked it if that's where they started in the series, but I can't imagine I would be as much a fan of the series today if that's the first game I played. And including the whole "Jackass" theme might have given it some extra buzz at the time of release, but makes it feel so dated today. I don't know, I have no disrespect for the players that liked them, nor the devs for trying something new. It's just that when I look at the THPS series and why it's my favorite series ever made, it hit its peak with 3 and 4, and immediately went downhill after that.
Hearing you say Holy Moley has given me the strength to face the week ahead
WRITING ON GAMES HOLY MOLY EXTENDED MIX 10 HOURS
You have caught on to a fascinating question here: what types of media will become irrelevant because of the specific cultural context of the time and what media will stay relevant because of its universality? This is a difficult question and I liked how you were able to articulate that it is essentially Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3's values that make it a classic- not its references to a specific sub culture that didn't exist very long. This question is fascinating to me because I always wonder what causes something to endure for years rather than fading in to obscurity. What worries me, however, is the thought that every piece of media will become irrelevant eventually given enough time. Will people be playing this in twenty years? Probably? But will they be playing Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 in one hundred years? I suppose someone who is fascinated with vintage gaming might but the number of people who would play it would probably decrease merely because of its age. I like playing older video games but I admit that I usually play newer ones. I just wonder whether the bias of what is current will always override what is classic. Something being older doesn't make it bad but it can isolate you as a consumer. After a long enough period of time you may feel like the media you are engaging it wasn't meant for you- that your cultural context diminishes your enjoyment if not outright destroying it.
I think what you're talking about falls more in line with preservation rather than cultural context. As in, it's not really "will people get this?" but rather "will the hardware still be available to play this?" I've noticed a real push for preservation in recent years and the technology associated with that is improving all the time, so I don't think that'll be too much of an issue, especially with games as revered as this. As I mention in the video, should the technology still exist to play this game, people will be able to pick it up, have a good time and importantly get what it's going for. They'll play THUG2 and wonder who the hell Bam Margera is. It's certainly interesting though - for example, Spec Ops: The Line is one of my favourite games, but arguably only makes sense in the context of the barrage of modern military shooters we were exposed to in the mid-late 00's/early 10's. THUG2 arguably wasn't held in particularly high regard to begin with so maybe not as much of an issue, but SOtL a well-loved game that might not make any sense at all to someone playing it in the future. I dunno, that stuff is super interesting to think about. Thank you for watching and commenting!
Maybe I didn't articulate myself very well because "will people get this in a hundred years?" is the idea I sometimes wrestle with. Yes, I think from a technological preservation perspective that it shouldn't be too difficult to get our hands on older hardware to play older games. What I was trying to say is that I wonder if there is any piece of art (whether it be video game or otherwise) that will always mean something. Are there qualities in a piece of art that will endure for all of human consciousness or is all of art so tied to some form of cultural context that as culture evolves so will what we are interested in as people. I guess the question becomes: is a game like Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 going to still inspire interest in a hundred years because of its complex yet accessible system? The answer may be "yes" and what is interesting to me is that there are games that become more like fads- games that are interesting because of their newness but years later are thought to be dull because upon further analysis, the system itself isn't interesting but it added something valuable that could be built upon later.
And no problem! Your videos are always incredibly insightful and interesting to watch!
My favorite move is the christ air by Ron Gilbert and the force by Darth Vader. I completed this game 100% with all characters including custom and unlocked characters, darth vader, wolverine ect.