When Battlefield 3 was first released alot of users would disable "hyperthreading" on their Intel core i7 2600k cpus in-order to get more stability & less game crashing (BF3 was a buggy mess @ launch). I noticed enabling intel hyperthreading helps remove any stuttering you may get in modern games that support alot of cpu threads.
I know you're messaging Mr. Tech YES Man, but if your wondering, the GTX 1660ti 6gb and GTX 1660 Super are both a great alternative with very similar performance to the GTX 1070 8gb while consuming less power and costing similar in new average price range to the GTX 1070's used average price range. I'll try to post some videos from the Tech YES City's channel of the performance between the two he did a while back. Edit: Here's one video. ruclips.net/video/XZB9TPbr11U/видео.html
if you are csgo player then yes. Also disable c-states for better latency and better 1% lows fps. also you can achieve better overclocks with HT disabled. Source engine does not do well with HT and power savings.
Benchmarks are done on test machines that have clean installs, no background apps no antivirus no downloads updates steam NOTHING. On a real system those extra threads will be busy handling all the background stuff. Best to leave it on.
Pretty sure you'll notice a difference with lower end CPU's, I remember a video testing with 2-4 core CPU's, and the difference was a lot more remarkable.
Ouch.. (see the swollen lip) i accidentally bite my lips once.. so i just wanna say i understand the pain.. talking, eating etc etc. Rinse with Warm Salt water help with the healing. Anyway i digress.. Thanks for the awesome video =)
@@postthooking2k528 Ash mind if you send me about the pc ? And Brian i'll send you pictures about the 4690K after i get my hands on the new case, it would take you back 6 years ..
if you play games that don't utilize multi-threading at all and you rarely play them. you should probably try turning it off, and try turning up your overclock. this is good for two reason. one, your cores aren't trying to multitask whiles just doing single thread tasks, making it more stable for single thread speed games. and then your cores are able to overclock more because they are having less stress from not having to do multi-threading. i was only able to push 4.30GHz on my ryzen 2700x, which is a good overclock. but on single threaded games my fps stability was terrible. so I turned off multi-threading and turned the OC to 4.40GHz and it was perfectly stable. now, i know 0.1GHz doesn't sound like allot, but because the CPU cores are not having to double think about processes and tasks on a single core, the speed and power a single core could do was allot more now. my fps was allot more stable in games and the biggest part was, in big MMO RPG games that require really quick single thread speeds, i could actually play them without the FPS going from like 100fps then spike dropping to 20 then back up. it would be really flat, high stable fps. even if you don't turn up the OC when turning off multi-threading, you will see in games which don't use this setting, you'll get much more stable fps and maybe even a little bit more. and before you say, ow but multi-threading is good for film editing, 3D rendering and streaming. yes if you do those things. but most people just want Ryzen for gaming and streaming, which just 8cores with no multi-threading is more than enough for this. like i said, not many games work with multi-threading, so unless you know the main games you play use it, try turning it off in the BIOS. ( like in this video, only works for games that don't use multi-theading correctly, but you can get allot more out of your cpu this way.
This could be just me, but i feel like when it comes to testing for competitive settings, once you get over the 144fps hurdle, the fps lows becomes the more important thing to look at, not to say you ignore the higher averages, but if feel like if you went from 180 fps avg for example to 170fps avg, but it made your 0.1% lows go from 70 to 80 or higher, the benefits would be much more noticeable, i know i personally feel that way, i can't stand it when my framerate drops below 100 in an fps game. Like i said that could just be me being weird tho.
This is a great comment, with SMT off, my 3600x does not get more fps but there is a much smoother experience. Maybe it’s how I OC my cpu, but then again I am severely bottlenecked as I have aN RTX 3070. SMT off creates a much better experience especially during low latency instances.
Games like cs go can have gains by turning off hyperthreading. It all depends on what game you are playing but for most modern games I think its best to leave it on as suggested. I think stability and low latency is just as important for gaming and often overlooked in favour for just fps.Might be interesting to do some tests on another bios setting, HPET (High Precision Event Timer) to see if there is any fps difference.It certainly can have a big difference on input lag and the" feel "of the game especially for first person shooters. Its an interesting setting and people have different opinions on it. Worked well for me when I used to play first person shooters and especially the call of duty games. Some had better results keeping it on in bios and enabling it in windows.Some with it turned off in bios. If you are using a mouse for gaming the lower the latency everything is running the better and I could definitely tell the difference when the latency was low. Also there are latency checkers so you can see if particular drivers or processes are causing high latency and instability which can cause stuttering and not smooth gameplay. Might be of interest ! Thanks for upload man.
M.2 Drives with SMT Off gain big IOPS boost. So windows and loading games feel snappier. Also even when if in game u wont get more FPS u most likely gain More in Low FPS
The benefits of less truffle is less than of more truffle. The results vary depending on the application but generally the rule above applies from what I’ve seen in my experience. And a NOTE some OEM machines turn it off by default which is a bit weird. Truffle so good you will bite your lips off.
I still use my 10 years old computer with a intel CPU 2600k and a GPU 1070 with 8gig vram and 16 gig ddr3 ram and 120 gig ssd boot and 1 tb ssd for games and HT on in bios... and i play cod warzone , battlefield V and fortnite and all with 100 fps in game with HT ON with HT Off i get only 60 fps..... games graphics settings on high... but shadows on low.
How are you playing battlefield 5 with 100fps with a 2600k... Dude my old 3770 could not keep up 60fps in BF1. So unless you have amazing overclocks I call bs.
@@TimberWulfIsHere i begin with tweaking windows 10 with debloating all extra installed software then run o&oshutup tweaker and shut all off then tweak the nvidia driver. Then water cool alll the hardware cpu gpu tweak cpu to 4.8 ghz max speed en tweak gpu to his max speed by my card 2100 mhz and tweak youre ram and importent is use super good compond on both of cpu gpu and then if all run stable tweak youre game for the highes fps but highes view in full hd with a 144 hz monitor and then i get 120 fps in fortnite 100 fps in battlefield V and in warzone also 100 fps, and if the game support use always vulkan drivers... that all runs for 10 years and for all my games like doom series all cods series and battlefield 3 4 5 and WOW to.. so why buy all new if the old stil running great with games only no RtX and hdr modes... but never use the ultra settings, try lower youre settings.. and maintain youre PC twice a year 😍 .. Greetings from Dutch NL
@@hansfox shit, I was right. That's hell of an overclock my dude. I tried some of this on my old setup. Helped with a bit in terms of performance but mostly with stability. Maybe I'll try this on my new ryzen system and see if I can get any gains from it. Cheers.
SLpreme I’m selling the PCs for 600 and building them for around 500. I’m just doing it cus I like building and trying to make extra money on the side. Sorry for the super late reply lol.
I guess the results show that if you have enough cores for all the threads, then disabling it might be good option, but if you don't, then HT is worthwhile.
The vast majority of the time, a given part in the CPU pipeline isn't doing anything. This is because the instruction that's being processed in that cycle is somewhere else in the pipeline most of the time. SMT lets the CPU accept a second instruction on a core when the first instruction is somewhere in a later part of said core's pipeline. Therefore, it seems like you have double the cores and can do more work in the same unit of time. This can be extended to let a core accept even more instructions in succession, 4-way and even 8-way SMT do exist. You'll reach the point where you lose performance much sooner then though. Which is mostly due to CPU not being able to fetch all the resources required by the running processes.
that leads to the question - do you get the same results as disabling smt by setting cpu affinity to exclude the smt secondary threads on each core? Process lasso or similar might give u the same results
So how do we explain the i7-9700K? It's a Gaming demon and I can't figure out why. It gets blown away in many productivity situations but in Gaming it be a beast lol, go figure.
I disabled HT for my very old 4 core overclocked CPU to keep the temperature at least 10C lower. Because single threaded performance is more important for me with this old CPU.
The myth that turning HT/SMT off came about soon after the first consumer x86 with it came about (Pentium 4). Many games and applications would indeed run slower because they were single (or just poorly multi) threaded plus Windows itself was poorly threaded too. Add the fact the Pentium 4 was prone to cache thrashing with HT enabled and incorrect, but not totally baseless rumours persist to this day of large performance drops.
HT or SMT must be enabled for every CPU with 2 cores, 4 cores, and 6 cores in every gaming PC because there is good gains, unfortunately this video only showed top end CPU's, with the exception of the 1680 v2, and that CPU does not make sense there, there should be an R5 3600 or an 8700K, something more popular
Way back, there would have been much bigger differences, the scheduler in Windows can now tell the difference between cores and threads and avoid scheduling two threads on the same core unless all cores are full. It's possible there may be some reaction with core parking - if core parking is enabled, then it may prefer to schedule 2 threads to a core instead of unparking additional cores
This is hilarious from a technical perspective 😂I thumb UP your video at the intro! I just love how serious u are about the analogies in effect to make this easier to understand!!
on my old 3770k the difference is a doubling in performance when ht is off , its easy to see on single threaded workloads (90% of the computers work icluding booting) they can only utilise 12.5% of the cpu instead of 25%
@@MarcoGPUtuber I'm aware of that, you're the first to notice . holy moly ! well i couldn't find something to use , last time we spoke i had a cat Picture.
HT/SMT on :170 FPS HT/SMT off :173 FPS Monitor Refresh Rate 144hz Gamers be like Omaigat!! I see the difference.. I swear to God.. I see it! The difference is real..!
@@SuperJosteen I think Linus did an experiment on this thing and turns out.. there's an actual difference between 144 and 240.. but the funny thing is when people trying to pump up FPS way beyond what their monitor can perform.. those extra FPS will be dropped and they won't even know it.. LOL!
Theoretically it would make sense, in reality you switch from smoother lower average framerate to stuttery higher average framerate. I really like the first scenario the most which is worth the "cost" in terms of heat output.
it can gain a bit of headroom but not much as your thinking since what you disabled is thread not a physical core its physical core who add more headroom in overclocking but by doing soo its pointless that you pick high core count CPU's LOL and HT/SMT really depends on game.. I set my setting w/ Manually tuned BIOS (RAM OC-GDM off 1T, IF OC, CPU offset, PBO manual other bios setting disabled some enabled like SAM etc.) 1st Profile SMT ON+SVM Enabled w/ settings mentioned above (For Emulator Gaming) 2nd Profile SMT ON+SVM Disabled w/ same setting (For Online Games which required HT) 3rd Profile SMT OFF+SVM Disabled w/ same setting (For Games that utilize 1 thread) 1 Safe Profile (Stock Setting + XMP for troubleshooting) All i need is know what kind of game im playing and what's the optimized setting then i can switch on any of the Three Gaming Profile. I don't randomly game i only play Online MMORPG (PC/Mobile) not a random gamer.
Fortnite guy here. I recently built a computer with a i5 10600k/2070 super. Was getting a single core bottleneck where my usage would be throttling the low 90s in core 3. So I disabled Hyper threading and now my usage is fixed and I have no issues.
Hey Bryan, you should do this test but with 4/4 and 4/8 and see how these results could compare with the 8/8 10/10 and if there’s more variation in results between each 4 core configuration. Nice video as usual 👍😋
It's not only the fact that u get more stable fps, including higher 1% lows and 0.1% lows... U also get better latencies, with better mouse inputs (Dunno how much it affects, but I've seen better latency graphs in FR33THY's video on hyperthreading)
@@zares_fnx im sorry. I actually meant with HT turned off. But some games are now utilizing HT better these days. So u might be able to have a slightly better performance with HT on in a few games.
Depends on the game, the most extreme example i've seen was Black Desert online, it was around 40% more fps with smth off. I wish there was a way to do it from windows without restarting.
this is true, in crowded PvP you can see other threads idling at 0% and its exactly half of the threads that fluctuates from 0% to low mids to highs but idle @ 0% longer .
okay so a good amount of lower end games and applications are only going to use like 16 threads so what i would like to see dynamic multi threading. like on a 16 core 32 thread processor if only 16 threads are being used the ability for the multi-threading to dynamically and automatically turn on or off per core, depending on the load. For example back when games pretty much only used 8 threads in the ivy bridge age what 8 core users would do was actually turn off hyper threading. This would actually improve fps in games that only used 8 threads. I mean in the end 8 cores 8 threads is going to be faster than 4 cores 8 threads, so my hypothesis is that DMT in combination with a well tuned turbo-boost could riiiiiiiip on like an epyc or xeon gold. DMT+ Hyper threading would be a great solution for getting high-core count processors into consumers hands much faster.
Hey Bryan, something you did not consider that in my opinion is the biggest thing about disabling HT/SMT is the fact that you gain Overclock margins. Especially since you are testing with OCed CPUs, I believe it is quite an important thing. I usually find that with HT/SMT off I get less heath, less power consumption and increased OC margins. With that aside, great video as always mate!
I recently tried turning HT off on my laptop’s i7 8750H (6c/12t), and I ran into constant, unbearable stuttering on GTA V because it was pegging my CPU out at 100% utilization, so I had to go back and reenable it in the bios. Never again. 😅
wasn't all that long ago when the main difference between the i5 and i7 was HT. definitely leave it enabled, it's a feature you paid for! also chances are, the system you are using isn't as clean as the test system, with a lot of background stuff working, taking up precious cpu cycles. HT will help with that even more.
Just Was looking for your channel to find a video about disabling Intel Spec. for more Optimizing on older platforms , Got my self a 4690K Z97 G3, Good deal..
Here you go bud, if you haven't found them yet here they are. Those are both TYC videos on disabling Spectre/Meltdown. ruclips.net/video/pbBFIJTBQd4/видео.html The first video covers what you need pretty much, but the second video has some additional stuff as well. ruclips.net/video/_kVIBfofamQ/видео.html
@@CharlieQ7400 Well, I have been an enthusiast my whole life (I am 38 now) and I have built many a PC, and tweaked many an OS. My first PC was an 386SX so that shows my age, but I would call my self incredibly experienced if that is what you are asking. I spent a few years working at one of our local PC shops in my 20s. And I have kept up with hardware and software and use PCs daily. And I build PCs on a regular basis to this day. I am constantly researching online for new tech (hardware and software) advances and any and all upcoming tech as well. So I do my best to remain in the loop and keep up with the times. So tech is a passion of mine and it has passed on to my kids and friends as well. So I would qualify myself as an full blown enthusiast and I am fairly clued up when it comes to all things PC related. Some guys love cars, I love tech.
@@joeyvdm1 Same thing here but i'm a younger version , well In Cinebench R15 i got 10pts lower after disabling both Spectre and Meltdown .. There's another issue i didn't find any answers even myself , wanna discuss about it in private ? Thanks .
Tomshardware with the first Pentium 4 with HT made the perfect example of why HT should be left on. They ran Unreal Tournament 2004 with some video rendering work at the same time, with HT on the performance came down but was fully playable. With HT off it was totally unplayable. HT kept it balanced, both apps overall ran better rather than fighting for the one thread. It usually does not improve performance but allow multiple demanding apps to co-exist without grinding to a halt. . Also worth noting - benchmarks are done on test machines that have clean installs, no background apps no antivirus no downloads updates steam NOTHING. On a real system those extra threads will be busy handling all the background stuff. . Overall leave it on for the best overall experience.
For a pure gaming only build I would turn it off personally. Get a second machine for workstation usage instead of jack of all trades? Unless you only want/have one pc that is.
On a r7 2700x with the stock cooler I have around 10 degrees less with SMT off @4ghz (-0.05v) VS SMT on @ stock speeds (doesn't reach 4ghz at stock voltage). Those 8 optimized single threaded cores for me, are better for the games I play, and the work I do (python developer) the SMT doesn't help a bit
Real question here that wonders me is: Are you able to overclock your CPU higher with HT off? And how this higher clock with HT will perform against same CPU with lower boost but HT on?
Forgive my ignorance but wasn't the xeon you featured in another video a budget cpu? Is the 1680 v2 a higher priced one? Like I said forgive me I just started looking at the xeon lineup.
Would the results be the same (FPS difference) with earlier generation Ryzen CPUs? For example, would my R5 1600 benefit with SMT off in those games were R9 3950x benefited? Because the physical core count is different as well 6 vs 16. Anyways I suggest everyone stay with SMT or HT to be turned on, because most games do support multithreading. Anyways good truffles
if you enable game mode which disables one CCD and it allows the other CCD to boost to 4.6ghz+ the reason i know because i've done it on mine would probably give you better performance than just disabling SMT
The only reason I am still using the Intel's 9th Gen processor is because I preferred to stay with non hyper-threading based system. There's question of enabling or disabling it to begin with. I don't game and I am quite happy with the performance of my Intel i7-9700T. Yeah "T".
My current gaming rig is a retired dual xeon server. I already have 16 physical cores, 32 imaginary cores isn't actually more useful for anything I have ever used this machine for.
Isn't this test just pointless on 10 and 16 core CPUs? The engines can't even scale up to the physical core count just to begin with so we might just be seeing the results of the CPU having more headroom to boost due to using less power and lower thermals.
Well this is spooky, I was just thinking I should try turning HT off on my 1680 V2 to see if helps in dragon age inquisition... I'll have to come back and post results I guess!
Wish I had some magic truffles. 😅 Holy truffles are nice though. Real nice coming from AM2+ socket w a 95W max. Still was worth upgrading from an Athlon 64 X2 5200+ 2.7ghz to a Phenom X4 955 3.2ghz. But upgrading from that to an H97 w a 4790? It's like a whole new world! Finally. 1080p modern gaming at 60fps... Just trying to keep my temps down until I can upgrade from the stock cooler and get a new case for better airflow. Curious if turning off hyperthreading/turbo in BIOS might bring the load temp down some. Though, I am getting surprisingly stable-ish temps with only a side case fan, exhaust fan, and top mount PSU fan pushing heat out the back. Subnutica just likes to jump up to 75°C now and then. And I'm getting a lower heat threshold (accumulating CPU heat faster and stabilizing hotter) even though I applied new MX4 just 2 weeks ago. I thought temps decreased as it 'cured', spreading out and removing air pockets over time. But not in my case w this stock cooler.
Hi Bryan, I apologise to take your AWESOME vid off topic, but, I've just purchased a PC based on below specs. What would be the steps to optimise it for COD Warzone. PC : Aorus B450 Elite Ryzen 5 3600 Galax GeForce RTX 2060 Super (1-Click OC) Delta TUF DDR4 3200mhz Crucial 500GB M.2 -OS ONLY Seagate Barracuda 2TB (3.5" 7200) HDD - Games Only Monitor is Samsung LU32J590UQEXXY 60hz Freesync (Response Time is 4GTG)
I have a Threadripper (3690X with 24 Cores) with a 3090 RTX ... and especially when i dealing with low resolutions (VR Gaming) i have to turn of SMT and disable half of my cores (Game Mode) to get ok fps. If i don't do that my 3090 runs at ~60% and give me very low fps . If i play in 4K the 3090 runs at100% as it should.
I prefer TYT - Tech YES Truffles.
Bryan's got the best truffles.
I'm hungry now.
Y did I read Tech Yes Tiddie😔
@@zakazakaboy344 That takes Tech YES Lovin' to a whole new level we do not wanna see.
Is it good on or off
When Battlefield 3 was first released alot of users would disable "hyperthreading" on their Intel core i7 2600k cpus in-order to get more stability & less game crashing (BF3 was a buggy mess @ launch). I noticed enabling intel hyperthreading helps remove any stuttering you may get in modern games that support alot of cpu threads.
Then BF4 comes out, instant BSOD on open if you had your CPU overclocked xD
I'm gonna go play some BF3 right now in fact.
Dang! That camera quality and/or editing just jumped up in quality and I'm loving every second of it :D Keep it up, Mr. Tech YES Man.
@pinbuck ohh man you guys saying that you wanna see lobster color correction?
Tech YES City for the $590 cod build what should I use instead of gtx 1070 8gb
I know you're messaging Mr. Tech YES Man, but if your wondering, the GTX 1660ti 6gb and GTX 1660 Super are both a great alternative with very similar performance to the GTX 1070 8gb while consuming less power and costing similar in new average price range to the GTX 1070's used average price range. I'll try to post some videos from the Tech YES City's channel of the performance between the two he did a while back.
Edit: Here's one video. ruclips.net/video/XZB9TPbr11U/видео.html
Finally someone tackles this topic in 2020! I wish you tested more games though, because it's very game dependant wether or not SMT helps.
If my CPU has 4 Coconuts and 8 Truffles, does is make sense sense to disable Hypertruffle?
no
if you are csgo player then yes. Also disable c-states for better latency and better 1% lows fps. also you can achieve better overclocks with HT disabled. Source engine does not do well with HT and power savings.
@@chuNami5000 is it good to disable c-state in non-k chip?
Benchmarks are done on test machines that have clean installs, no background apps no antivirus no downloads updates steam NOTHING. On a real system those extra threads will be busy handling all the background stuff. Best to leave it on.
I'd just keep HyperCoconut and SimultaneousMultiNut on.
Thank you for adding Warzone into the test! It should be a staple game in benchmarks from 2020 moving forward!
Daym, your production quality evolves every year
His motherboard reviews still sucks though
Pretty sure you'll notice a difference with lower end CPU's, I remember a video testing with 2-4 core CPU's, and the difference was a lot more remarkable.
Ouch.. (see the swollen lip) i accidentally bite my lips once.. so i just wanna say i understand the pain.. talking, eating etc etc.
Rinse with Warm Salt water help with the healing.
Anyway i digress.. Thanks for the awesome video =)
You are pretty despicable
no actually pour acid on it, helps with killing the bacteria
Just eat garlic... it fixes everything
@@SISSYPUSS works for me 😁
The main thing that is crucial here is the CPU temps, SMT has lower temps, so you can OC it higher and get, as I benched, better results.
for me smt is like 10c more. smt off lower temps and better performance on r5 7500f :D
Hey tech yes , I messaged you on Facebook messenger about the $600 AUD gaming PC , I'm the one from the last video ,
Ashton
Hey dude Ill reply now, sorry been flat out (as usual).
@@techyescity it's alright man keep doing your thing , love the vids and I don't mind if it takes a while
@@postthooking2k528 Ash mind if you send me about the pc ?
And Brian i'll send you pictures about the 4690K after i get my hands on the new case, it would take you back 6 years ..
if you play games that don't utilize multi-threading at all and you rarely play them. you should probably try turning it off, and try turning up your overclock. this is good for two reason. one, your cores aren't trying to multitask whiles just doing single thread tasks, making it more stable for single thread speed games. and then your cores are able to overclock more because they are having less stress from not having to do multi-threading. i was only able to push 4.30GHz on my ryzen 2700x, which is a good overclock. but on single threaded games my fps stability was terrible. so I turned off multi-threading and turned the OC to 4.40GHz and it was perfectly stable. now, i know 0.1GHz doesn't sound like allot, but because the CPU cores are not having to double think about processes and tasks on a single core, the speed and power a single core could do was allot more now. my fps was allot more stable in games and the biggest part was, in big MMO RPG games that require really quick single thread speeds, i could actually play them without the FPS going from like 100fps then spike dropping to 20 then back up. it would be really flat, high stable fps. even if you don't turn up the OC when turning off multi-threading, you will see in games which don't use this setting, you'll get much more stable fps and maybe even a little bit more. and before you say, ow but multi-threading is good for film editing, 3D rendering and streaming. yes if you do those things. but most people just want Ryzen for gaming and streaming, which just 8cores with no multi-threading is more than enough for this. like i said, not many games work with multi-threading, so unless you know the main games you play use it, try turning it off in the BIOS. ( like in this video, only works for games that don't use multi-theading correctly, but you can get allot more out of your cpu this way.
This could be just me, but i feel like when it comes to testing for competitive settings, once you get over the 144fps hurdle, the fps lows becomes the more important thing to look at, not to say you ignore the higher averages, but if feel like if you went from 180 fps avg for example to 170fps avg, but it made your 0.1% lows go from 70 to 80 or higher, the benefits would be much more noticeable, i know i personally feel that way, i can't stand it when my framerate drops below 100 in an fps game. Like i said that could just be me being weird tho.
Nah I agree. Went with Intel for my latest build as they have better 1% lows than ryzen
This is a great comment, with SMT off, my 3600x does not get more fps but there is a much smoother experience. Maybe it’s how I OC my cpu, but then again I am severely bottlenecked as I have aN RTX 3070. SMT off creates a much better experience especially during low latency instances.
HT turned off yes, but you can overclock to higher frequencies. my 5900x got 4.8 all core vs 4.6 with ht off. LOW temps
Games like cs go can have gains by turning off hyperthreading. It all depends on what game you are playing but for most modern games I think its best to leave it on as suggested.
I think stability and low latency is just as important for gaming and often overlooked in favour for just fps.Might be interesting to do some tests on another bios setting, HPET (High Precision Event Timer) to see if there is any fps difference.It certainly can have a big difference on input lag and the" feel "of the game especially for first person shooters. Its an interesting setting and people have different opinions on it. Worked well for me when I used to play first person shooters and especially the call of duty games. Some had better results keeping it on in bios and enabling it in windows.Some with it turned off in bios.
If you are using a mouse for gaming the lower the latency everything is running the better and I could definitely tell the difference when the latency was low. Also there are latency checkers so you can see if particular drivers or processes are causing high latency and instability which can cause stuttering and not smooth gameplay. Might be of interest ! Thanks for upload man.
Props for including Warzone in the benchmark test. A lot of major channels always leave this game out even though its the most popular
M.2 Drives with SMT Off gain big IOPS boost. So windows and loading games feel snappier. Also even when if in game u wont get more FPS u most likely gain More in Low FPS
The benefits of less truffle is less than of more truffle. The results vary depending on the application but generally the rule above applies from what I’ve seen in my experience. And a NOTE some OEM machines turn it off by default which is a bit weird. Truffle so good you will bite your lips off.
I still use my 10 years old computer with a intel CPU 2600k and a GPU 1070 with 8gig vram and 16 gig ddr3 ram and 120 gig ssd boot and 1 tb ssd for games and HT on in bios...
and i play cod warzone , battlefield V and fortnite and all with 100 fps in game with HT ON with HT Off i get only 60 fps..... games graphics settings on high... but shadows on low.
I have the non-k version of your CPU; HT on it causes input lag for me.
How are you playing battlefield 5 with 100fps with a 2600k... Dude my old 3770 could not keep up 60fps in BF1. So unless you have amazing overclocks I call bs.
@@TimberWulfIsHere i begin with tweaking windows 10 with debloating all extra installed software then run o&oshutup tweaker and shut all off then tweak the nvidia driver. Then water cool alll the hardware cpu gpu tweak cpu to 4.8 ghz max speed en tweak gpu to his max speed by my card 2100 mhz and tweak youre ram and importent is use super good compond on both of cpu gpu and then if all run stable tweak youre game for the highes fps but highes view in full hd with a 144 hz monitor and then i get 120 fps in fortnite 100 fps in battlefield V and in warzone also 100 fps, and if the game support use always vulkan drivers... that all runs for 10 years and for all my games like doom series all cods series and battlefield 3 4 5 and WOW to.. so why buy all new if the old stil running great with games only no RtX and hdr modes... but never use the ultra settings, try lower youre settings.. and maintain youre PC twice a year 😍 .. Greetings from Dutch NL
@@hansfox shit, I was right. That's hell of an overclock my dude. I tried some of this on my old setup. Helped with a bit in terms of performance but mostly with stability. Maybe I'll try this on my new ryzen system and see if I can get any gains from it. Cheers.
I love this channel made me start selling computers in my town... I have sold 2 hoping to get my 3rd this week 😤😤
What's your profit margin?
SLpreme I’m selling the PCs for 600 and building them for around 500. I’m just doing it cus I like building and trying to make extra money on the side. Sorry for the super late reply lol.
I guess the results show that if you have enough cores for all the threads, then disabling it might be good option, but if you don't, then HT is worthwhile.
The vast majority of the time, a given part in the CPU pipeline isn't doing anything. This is because the instruction that's being processed in that cycle is somewhere else in the pipeline most of the time. SMT lets the CPU accept a second instruction on a core when the first instruction is somewhere in a later part of said core's pipeline. Therefore, it seems like you have double the cores and can do more work in the same unit of time. This can be extended to let a core accept even more instructions in succession, 4-way and even 8-way SMT do exist. You'll reach the point where you lose performance much sooner then though. Which is mostly due to CPU not being able to fetch all the resources required by the running processes.
that leads to the question - do you get the same results as disabling smt by setting cpu affinity to exclude the smt secondary threads on each core? Process lasso or similar might give u the same results
It might do tbh. It's very easy to test it.
So how do we explain the i7-9700K? It's a Gaming demon and I can't figure out why. It gets blown away in many productivity situations but in Gaming it be a beast lol, go figure.
@@SISSYPUSS If that was true my 9900k at 5.1ghz would pull in a higher Cinebench score then my 3800x at 4.3ghz but it doesn't.
This is perhaps the best and simplest explanation of SMT and HT ever
What about temperature? SMT OFF VS ON, any difference in temperature or power consumption?
I think of cores as sinks and threads as plugholes. With hyper threading you have 2 plugholes.
overclock performance need to be analysed. both during smd on/off
I disabled HT for my very old 4 core overclocked CPU to keep the temperature at least 10C lower. Because single threaded performance is more important for me with this old CPU.
The myth that turning HT/SMT off came about soon after the first consumer x86 with it came about (Pentium 4). Many games and applications would indeed run slower because they were single (or just poorly multi) threaded plus Windows itself was poorly threaded too.
Add the fact the Pentium 4 was prone to cache thrashing with HT enabled and incorrect, but not totally baseless rumours persist to this day of large performance drops.
HT or SMT must be enabled for every CPU with 2 cores, 4 cores, and 6 cores in every gaming PC because there is good gains, unfortunately this video only showed top end CPU's, with the exception of the 1680 v2, and that CPU does not make sense there, there should be an R5 3600 or an 8700K, something more popular
Way back, there would have been much bigger differences, the scheduler in Windows can now tell the difference between cores and threads and avoid scheduling two threads on the same core unless all cores are full.
It's possible there may be some reaction with core parking - if core parking is enabled, then it may prefer to schedule 2 threads to a core instead of unparking additional cores
Probably handled per application ID for parking/unparking & your general settings (like powerplan etc.)? That'd make sense at least.
This is hilarious from a technical perspective 😂I thumb UP your video at the intro! I just love how serious u are about the analogies in effect to make this easier to understand!!
on my old 3770k the difference is a doubling in performance when ht is off , its easy to see on single threaded workloads (90% of the computers work icluding booting) they can only utilise 12.5% of the cpu instead of 25%
I bit my lip a minute ago stumbling over myself to click and watch a Tech YES City video.
Meow
@@CharlieQ7400 You're not Domics!
@@MarcoGPUtuber I'm aware of that, you're the first to notice . holy moly ! well i couldn't find something to use , last time we spoke i had a cat Picture.
@@CharlieQ7400 lmao
I want to see Brian on Scrapyard Wars! That hustle would kill it!
When you bite your lip good enough to see it from the outside; DAMN man. That must have been a cruncher....
HT/SMT on :170 FPS
HT/SMT off :173 FPS
Monitor Refresh Rate 144hz
Gamers be like
Omaigat!! I see the difference.. I swear to God.. I see it! The difference is real..!
most people won't even be able to tell between 144hz and 240hz lol
@@SuperJosteen I think Linus did an experiment on this thing and turns out.. there's an actual difference between 144 and 240.. but the funny thing is when people trying to pump up FPS way beyond what their monitor can perform.. those extra FPS will be dropped and they won't even know it.. LOL!
IIRC, disabling HT makes your cpu run cooler. If this is true, then maybe the overclock you can then add could make some difference in some cases
Theoretically it would make sense, in reality you switch from smoother lower average framerate to stuttery higher average framerate. I really like the first scenario the most which is worth the "cost" in terms of heat output.
it can gain a bit of headroom but not much as your thinking since what you disabled is thread not a physical core its physical core who add more headroom in overclocking but by doing soo its pointless that you pick high core count CPU's LOL and HT/SMT really depends on game..
I set my setting w/ Manually tuned BIOS (RAM OC-GDM off 1T, IF OC, CPU offset, PBO manual other bios setting disabled some enabled like SAM etc.)
1st Profile SMT ON+SVM Enabled w/ settings mentioned above (For Emulator Gaming)
2nd Profile SMT ON+SVM Disabled w/ same setting (For Online Games which required HT)
3rd Profile SMT OFF+SVM Disabled w/ same setting (For Games that utilize 1 thread)
1 Safe Profile (Stock Setting + XMP for troubleshooting)
All i need is know what kind of game im playing and what's the optimized setting then i can switch on any of the
Three Gaming Profile.
I don't randomly game i only play Online MMORPG (PC/Mobile) not a random gamer.
Fortnite guy here. I recently built a computer with a i5 10600k/2070 super. Was getting a single core bottleneck where my usage would be throttling the low 90s in core 3. So I disabled Hyper threading and now my usage is fixed and I have no issues.
In fortnite the 1% lows and 0.1% lows are better with SMT off. So the game is more stable with SMT off
Hey Bryan, you should do this test but with 4/4 and 4/8 and see how these results could compare with the 8/8 10/10 and if there’s more variation in results between each 4 core configuration. Nice video as usual 👍😋
i remember when i was 14 (decades ago) when xeon first came out. they were so expensive. revolutionary tech though. time for a new revolution
Thanks for great benchmarks with multiple CPUs and even different platforms!
It's not only the fact that u get more stable fps, including higher 1% lows and 0.1% lows... U also get better latencies, with better mouse inputs (Dunno how much it affects, but I've seen better latency graphs in FR33THY's video on hyperthreading)
Is it your opinion about the latencies? I keep seeing people on tweaking communities saying that HT on = worse latencies and mouse feel.
@@zares_fnx im sorry. I actually meant with HT turned off. But some games are now utilizing HT better these days. So u might be able to have a slightly better performance with HT on in a few games.
With many core CPUs hyper threading is now pointless. Hyper threading was introduced to prevent OS locking up when software threads overload a core.
0:00 Too much unprotected Tech Yes Lovin?
Awesome new cam !
Look so much better !! :)
Thx for the video too !
Depends on the game, the most extreme example i've seen was Black Desert online, it was around 40% more fps with smth off. I wish there was a way to do it from windows without restarting.
this is true, in crowded PvP you can see other threads idling at 0% and its exactly half of the threads that fluctuates from 0% to low mids to highs but idle @ 0% longer .
okay so a good amount of lower end games and applications are only going to use like 16 threads so what i would like to see dynamic multi threading. like on a 16 core 32 thread processor if only 16 threads are being used the ability for the multi-threading to dynamically and automatically turn on or off per core, depending on the load. For example back when games pretty much only used 8 threads in the ivy bridge age what 8 core users would do was actually turn off hyper threading. This would actually improve fps in games that only used 8 threads. I mean in the end 8 cores 8 threads is going to be faster than 4 cores 8 threads, so my hypothesis is that DMT in combination with a well tuned turbo-boost could riiiiiiiip on like an epyc or xeon gold. DMT+ Hyper threading would be a great solution for getting high-core count processors into consumers hands much faster.
with ht0 you can take +50-150mhz for core and ring with same voltage actually.
You should have used 2/4/6 core cpus to see real big differences
3:42 The 1680 V2 has way better lows after turning hyper threading off, why didn't you mention that?
Hey Bryan, something you did not consider that in my opinion is the biggest thing about disabling HT/SMT is the fact that you gain Overclock margins. Especially since you are testing with OCed CPUs, I believe it is quite an important thing. I usually find that with HT/SMT off I get less heath, less power consumption and increased OC margins. With that aside, great video as always mate!
lol
I think that you should make a video on Hardware ram vs hardware + virtual ram (paging file or swap) in windows
I recently tried turning HT off on my laptop’s i7 8750H (6c/12t), and I ran into constant, unbearable stuttering on GTA V because it was pegging my CPU out at 100% utilization, so I had to go back and reenable it in the bios. Never again. 😅
wasn't all that long ago when the main difference between the i5 and i7 was HT.
definitely leave it enabled, it's a feature you paid for!
also chances are, the system you are using isn't as clean as the test system, with a lot of background stuff working, taking up precious cpu cycles. HT will help with that even more.
Depends on the game, I went to play farcry 3 again and I got 50 FPS with a 10700k and 2070super lol turned off ht and got 120
frametime over fps everytime for me..
are you saying this because frametime is more consistent with one vs. the other?
keep up the awsome content matey, and I yet to try your "cleaning" of MB and such where you actualy wash them in you're sink HAHA LOVE it!
Just Was looking for your channel to find a video about disabling Intel Spec. for more Optimizing on older platforms ,
Got my self a 4690K Z97 G3, Good deal..
Here you go bud, if you haven't found them yet here they are. Those are both TYC videos on disabling Spectre/Meltdown.
ruclips.net/video/pbBFIJTBQd4/видео.html
The first video covers what you need pretty much, but the second video has some additional stuff as well.
ruclips.net/video/_kVIBfofamQ/видео.html
@@joeyvdm1 Very Appreciated ! i was out , you saved me a minute ! Are you a professional ?
@@CharlieQ7400 Well, I have been an enthusiast my whole life (I am 38 now) and I have built many a PC, and tweaked many an OS. My first PC was an 386SX so that shows my age, but I would call my self incredibly experienced if that is what you are asking.
I spent a few years working at one of our local PC shops in my 20s. And I have kept up with hardware and software and use PCs daily. And I build PCs on a regular basis to this day. I am constantly researching online for new tech (hardware and software) advances and any and all upcoming tech as well. So I do my best to remain in the loop and keep up with the times.
So tech is a passion of mine and it has passed on to my kids and friends as well. So I would qualify myself as an full blown enthusiast and I am fairly clued up when it comes to all things PC related. Some guys love cars, I love tech.
@@joeyvdm1 Same thing here but i'm a younger version , well In Cinebench R15 i got 10pts lower after disabling both Spectre and Meltdown ..
There's another issue i didn't find any answers even myself , wanna discuss about it in private ? Thanks .
@@CharlieQ7400 Sure no problem, but where private? I don't mind assisting at all, but where would you like to chat in private?
will i hurt my cpu by turning off hyperthreating?
Thank you for your research, Is very well appreciated!
Tomshardware with the first Pentium 4 with HT made the perfect example of why HT should be left on. They ran Unreal Tournament 2004 with some video rendering work at the same time, with HT on the performance came down but was fully playable. With HT off it was totally unplayable. HT kept it balanced, both apps overall ran better rather than fighting for the one thread. It usually does not improve performance but allow multiple demanding apps to co-exist without grinding to a halt.
.
Also worth noting - benchmarks are done on test machines that have clean installs, no background apps no antivirus no downloads updates steam NOTHING. On a real system those extra threads will be busy handling all the background stuff.
.
Overall leave it on for the best overall experience.
Hyper truffling only makes a few frames difference, saved me a lip. Thanks!
If you lock the clock speed its not going to change anything. If you leave it on AUTO you will see a difference as there will be more power budget.
What happens at 2K or 4K?
damn 5.2GHZ on that intel cpu. Did the power grid melt down?
Bryan, if you have a computer case that is too small to fit a graphics card, what do you do? Do you knock the hard disk drive cages out?
For a pure gaming only build I would turn it off personally. Get a second machine for workstation usage instead of jack of all trades? Unless you only want/have one pc that is.
Disabling HT(Ryzen 9 7940hs) caused X4:Foundations to stop parking on core 8 and I went from 14-35FPS.
On a r7 2700x with the stock cooler I have around 10 degrees less with SMT off @4ghz (-0.05v) VS SMT on @ stock speeds (doesn't reach 4ghz at stock voltage). Those 8 optimized single threaded cores for me, are better for the games I play, and the work I do (python developer) the SMT doesn't help a bit
Real question here that wonders me is: Are you able to overclock your CPU higher with HT off? And how this higher clock with HT will perform against same CPU with lower boost but HT on?
@Nismo so in short a way too small difference to warrant the potentially unwanted stuttering that comes with capable software when HT/SMT is off.
Nothing I didnt expect to see. Still nice to recheck.
Just leave smt/ht *on* because on average *on* and *off* are identical.
interesting... I always thought that SMT stood for "Simultaneous Muti-Threading"... the more you know... 😆
Forgive my ignorance but wasn't the xeon you featured in another video a budget cpu? Is the 1680 v2 a higher priced one? Like I said forgive me I just started looking at the xeon lineup.
Would the results be the same (FPS difference) with earlier generation Ryzen CPUs? For example, would my R5 1600 benefit with SMT off in those games were R9 3950x benefited? Because the physical core count is different as well 6 vs 16. Anyways I suggest everyone stay with SMT or HT to be turned on, because most games do support multithreading. Anyways good truffles
Basically, if you play games then leave HT/SMT ON if you have a CPU with 8 cores or less, leave it OFF if you have a CPU with 10 cores or more.
I now want to see a cooking with TYC show.
if you enable game mode which disables one CCD and it allows the other CCD to boost to 4.6ghz+ the reason i know because i've done it on mine would probably give you better performance than just disabling SMT
How does SMT affect the ryzen 9 cpu’s?
Tech Yes Citizens!! What is the name of the outro song he uses? Always a bitter sweet feeling of the video ending but the music being so good lol
Dude you got a dslr dang!!
The only reason I am still using the Intel's 9th Gen processor is because I preferred to stay with non hyper-threading based system. There's question of enabling or disabling it to begin with. I don't game and I am quite happy with the performance of my Intel i7-9700T. Yeah "T".
Nice vid thanks Bryan
You can always just change cpu affinity in windows for games too
You should disable hyperthreading if your cpu only has 1 socket i heard it can increase game performance by 30% and reduce heat.
My current gaming rig is a retired dual xeon server. I already have 16 physical cores, 32 imaginary cores isn't actually more useful for anything I have ever used this machine for.
Maybe the shrooms you ate wre _not_ truffles...
i lvoe your vid its helps me a lot
Isn't this test just pointless on 10 and 16 core CPUs? The engines can't even scale up to the physical core count just to begin with so we might just be seeing the results of the CPU having more headroom to boost due to using less power and lower thermals.
I think that maybe these slight changes are due to silicone lottery not by turning on/off hyperthreading itself
Well this is spooky, I was just thinking I should try turning HT off on my 1680 V2 to see if helps in dragon age inquisition... I'll have to come back and post results I guess!
Wish I had some magic truffles. 😅 Holy truffles are nice though. Real nice coming from AM2+ socket w a 95W max. Still was worth upgrading from an Athlon 64 X2 5200+ 2.7ghz to a Phenom X4 955 3.2ghz. But upgrading from that to an H97 w a 4790? It's like a whole new world! Finally. 1080p modern gaming at 60fps... Just trying to keep my temps down until I can upgrade from the stock cooler and get a new case for better airflow.
Curious if turning off hyperthreading/turbo in BIOS might bring the load temp down some. Though, I am getting surprisingly stable-ish temps with only a side case fan, exhaust fan, and top mount PSU fan pushing heat out the back. Subnutica just likes to jump up to 75°C now and then. And I'm getting a lower heat threshold (accumulating CPU heat faster and stabilizing hotter) even though I applied new MX4 just 2 weeks ago.
I thought temps decreased as it 'cured', spreading out and removing air pockets over time. But not in my case w this stock cooler.
Hi Bryan, I apologise to take your AWESOME vid off topic, but, I've just purchased a PC based on below specs. What would be the steps to optimise it for COD Warzone.
PC : Aorus B450 Elite
Ryzen 5 3600
Galax GeForce RTX 2060 Super (1-Click OC)
Delta TUF DDR4 3200mhz
Crucial 500GB M.2 -OS ONLY
Seagate Barracuda 2TB (3.5" 7200) HDD - Games Only
Monitor is Samsung LU32J590UQEXXY 60hz Freesync (Response Time is 4GTG)
I have a Threadripper (3690X with 24 Cores) with a 3090 RTX ... and especially when i dealing with low resolutions (VR Gaming) i have to turn of SMT and disable half of my cores (Game Mode) to get ok fps. If i don't do that my 3090 runs at ~60% and give me very low fps . If i play in 4K the 3090 runs at100% as it should.
Wonder how the lack of HT in the i7-9700 will affect it in gaming in the near future.
1680 v2 costs 50 usd in our country and r9 3950x costs 300 usd which is better to buy
TL;DW
SMT on/off is best kept on.
Up to 20% loss in some games if off.
Within margin of error (
With RTX 3000 pending and pushing up GPU standards, what's the lowest Pascal card you'd recommend for a mid level build going forward?
You should test it in Minecraft too, it uses only i thread
Hi just to advise I’m using a 3900x with fortnite an with smt off I gain over 80-120 FPS increase right now