Demystifying the SHOCKING New FF7 Rebirth Trailer
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- There is a whole lot to pull out of the latest FF7 Rebirth trailer from Summer Games Fest 2023. I dig deep into what Sephiroth means by killing Tifa, unpack the timeline debate, and predict what might happen and how much those 2 discs may hold.
EDIT: New version of this video with louder voice over by request (my voice came in low for some viewers) • (RE-UPLOAD W/ LOUDER V...
Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
01:28 - The 'Unreliable World' Is Real
11:28 - Deep Diving Into All Timeline Theories + "Lifestream Zack"
28:37 - Crazy Big Brain Fun Prediction Time
34:36 - Two Discs: Hype or Hoax?
40:15 - Outro
To follow me on social, you can check out my Twitter: / _subtxt_
#FF7Rebirth #FF7Remake #FinalFantasy7Remake #ff7remakepart2
Music Credits:
Back to the Future Theme (EPIC VERSION) by L'Orchestra Cinématique
• Back To The Future The...
Final Fantasy VII - Tifa's Theme (Lofi Lia Remix) by Lofi Lia
• Final Fantasy VII - Ti...
Anxious (FF7 Anxious Heart Lofi) by RandomBeats, Mega Ran & Rifti Beats
• Anxious
I think the best part of all this is that it doesn't really matter if the story has timelines or not. It's the fact that despite ff7 being remade, almost everything is a mystery again. I have barely any clue what to expect, and I love that. Great video. Just subscribed 😊
Yes, that was exactly why I didn’t bring up timelines in my last video. The “Why FF7 Is SPOILING Its Biggest Twist” is all about both why and how they’re bringing back the mystery of the OG. Let me know if you have thoughts on that one too.
SubTXT I'll definitely look at that next! I'm 39 years old and a huge ff7 fan. If u ever wanna discuss ff7 stuff, please lemme know. It's always a good time discussing with the ff community.
Well said!
I honestly can't tell you if I like having a new plot not just a straight remake. I loved the original story and modern writing left valid worries of an altered story being deconstructed to destruction. Plus it's been many years since I'd played it so it still felt pretty new to the point when the Whispers with real changes first appeared the confidence in my memory was shaken, just trying to recall what was happening because I didn't know about the timeline stuff yet
So essentially you’re just a fan of mystery box storytelling then? To each their own but I find this type of storytelling extremely shallow personally. I like great stories with substance and find that ones which rely on mystery and subversion above all else have nothing beyond the initial consumption as the mystery can only be a mystery once.
UPDATE: New version of this video with louder voice over by request (my voice came in low for some viewers) ruclips.net/video/NjL-TwFcC6o/видео.html
I also added subtitles once again for this video just like my last. Enjoy!
Tifas side of the A Trace of Two Pasts story seems to take place shortly after Kalm if I interpreted it correctly, and she stops short of really divulging anything big about Nibelheim, and just confirms that what Cloud said was how it happened. Also almost everything in her tale in that book is even more interesting when viewed in light of the recent trailer.
Yeah, Traces of Two Pasts is a really great read for FF7 fans in general.
Some of what the devs say like "FFVIIR is not a sequel" and "FFVIIR doesn't change things" is marketing speak. They are trying to sell a product and by calling it a sequel that changes things discourages potential sales. It does so by making people think they have to experience the ENTIRE compilation to understand the story. It also discourages people who wouldn't try FFVIIR if it's too different from the original.
The truth being somewhere in the middle and not easily explained is not something that can be dumbed down. Hence, "FFVIIR is not a sequel" and "FFVIIR doesn't change things".
I've watched through your video's a few times now! They are high quality, well structured, and insightful.
One of my new favourite FF7 content creators by far. This game has meant the world to me since 2000, so it's really nice to find a channel like yours!
Thank you for the work and I look forward to your future creations.
Thank you so much! Hopefully I can have some more videos soon, but I don’t force it unless I feel I have a good point to make. I do have a couple of thoughts that may turn into vids though.
Nice video! I don't know if anyone pointed this out yet but the FF7 Remake Intergrade PS5 comes on ONE disc. FF7 Remake PS4 version comes with two discs. PS4 disc can hold about 50gb and a PS5 disc can hold about 100gb, which is why PS5 version is on 1 disc. So FF7 Rebirth being on 2 discs means it might be up to 200gb file size.
That is one big game if that's true.
Regardless if you think it’s a single or alternate timeline, I 100% agree with you that Zack will be seeing that news footage most likely on the overhead screen in the Sector 5 slums.
There are some things about your theory that haven’t been elaborated on that I’m curious about. In this new single altered terrier timeline did the terrier party (who looks dead) get to the expressway with terrier Cloud in the party with them? Or did they end up there without terrier Cloud because Zack dropped him off somewhere and the just never met up?
I believe it’s Schrodingers baby Seal’s theory that basically all of the events that lead up to the terrier party dying went very very similarly to how it was portrayed in Remake as the Beagle party. The only difference is that terrier Cloud never had the Buster sword so he picked up a different weapon, met Tifa who picked him up, all of the bombing mission and platefall and everything basically happened more or less the same and by the time they got to the singularity event, the party dies and Sephiroth gets control over terrier Cloud.
The issue I have with this theory is that we see Zack (right after his victory with Cloud at this time) get knocked back by the whisper explosion and then the shimmering sparkles start raining down. At the same time the shimmering sparkles are raining down over Marle and the sector 7 residents picking up the pieces after platefall.
So that platefall has all ready happened! Did the terrier party all ready by this point go through the events past platefall without Cloud then? Because that seems the most likely. So terrier Cloud must have not ever met terrier party because he was with Zack before any of this even took place.
So taking all of this into account, we know that all the characters in this new single altered timeline are all terrier and experienced only the terrier timeline events, except of course our beagle party because they have preserved themselves in the singularity and got shot out into this new terrier reality. So this means that all of Shinra including the Turks must have a version of events that don’t involve knowing Cloud fighting alongside the terrier party.
So one big thing to look out for is to see Rude’s reaction to meeting Cloud at the mythril mines in Rebirth. If he doesn’t remember Cloud and reacts something like “Who’s this guy?” or “How do you guys know each other?” or “Those eyes, is this guy a Soldier?” then I think that would lend credibility to this now being a single altered timeline.
However, if Rude seems to remember Cloud and fighting Cloud with the party (with Tifa because of the pillar fight, with Aerith because of the sector 5 fight)and he doesn't show any reaction to them all being together, doesn’t seem surprised or asks any questions then I think this lends credibility to the Beagle timeline still living on with what we play as primarily and that Zack is in the alternate Terrier.
So because of these points and don’t agree that a single alternate timeline makes the most sense necessarily. I still think that either one are almost equal potentials and there are things to look out for in Rebirth that can help us determine that relatively soon into the game.
Thanks for the comment. Some thoughts on each.
1) If there is a single timeline, I think Terrier Cloud ended up with them on the Expressway, yeah. There are some holes (how did Zack & Cloud split? how did Zack miss Aerith but Cloud meet her?), but it's my best guess.
2) I think the sparkles is explained by the same point I make at 13:15 of this video. The Whispers exist and explode (turn into sparkles) all throughout time, at once. So Zack sees the sparkles in the past and Marie & crew see it in current times.
3) Yeah, the Rude reaction in Mythril Mines was something I planned to cover in the video but honestly forgot. It is definitely a bit of a hole in the theory. It most supports either the "two timeline" theory or "the news report is Shinra propaganda" theory (which could maybe fit with a single timeline construct). The stretch answer for single timeline believers is that we see 10 seconds of the interaction, so maybe it's addressed. But it is a bit of a hole.
And yeah, like I said, I'm only 90% sure on a single timeline. I probably have a bit of bias just because I also think it's the more compelling reality.
@@SubTXT_ Thanks for the reply!
We'll have to wait and see what's really happening when Rebirth eventually releases as we don't have enough information yet, but here are some more thoughts.
1) Whenever we get to some Zack scenes in Rebirth, everyone will be paying close attention to when and if we see Zack dropping Cloud off. Did he drop him off and check out or hide somewhere for a period of time? Is that why he looks cleaned up in intermission? Or was that just a CGI team oversight? Did he visit Aerith's church relatively soon after dropping Cloud off? Does that Cloud actually have enough time to meet the party and go through all the events that would lead to the expressway before Zack witnesses the wreckage of the sectors on tv? We'll see.
2) I suppose it's possible, but one thing I find strange is how the scenes of Rufus Shinra and Hojo laughing must be the terrier timeline as a result of everything that happened prior to all the events that lead to that moment. However, the next scene goes back in time to Zack's survival with the whisper explosion and sparkles and then the next scene is going forward in time again to show Marle picking up he pieces of sector 7 platefall with the sparkles. It's such an extremely confusing way of showing all of this that I can't see the point of it, maybe if they showed Rufus and Shinra/Hojo scenes after Zack's survival? Then it might makes sense? Showing before really makes it seem like the Beagle timeline is still carrying over.
Either way we'll just have to wait and see :)
@@ryanharrison3118 “extremely confusing,” you say? Yeah, that sounds like the FF7 experience haha
Love these comments
Honestly my first FF7 playthru back 20 years ago was sort of a mindfuck. All I had was my friend-group cause internet wasn't what it is now back then... and my friends were all convinced Cloud was an actual Clone the whole time cause they got that confused from the narrative. Half of them forgot about Zack but Zack became the character I was the most fascinated by. Honestly even now I'm so hype his role is being expanded.
I cant wait to enjoy and see the full story of ff7.
Im here right after watching your last one. Your editing is super smooth my dude. Im glad your willing to spend so much of your time doing this. You're a good man.
I really wish the remake trilogy would go as Art house crazy as the Eva show and films....
It's always a treat to see you post a new video
I'm definitely with you on where Rebirth should end. The party being in custody is also a perfect way to naturally start the game with all your equipment and stuff gone so you have to start fresh.
Great video and great content. Just had a couple points I’d like to point out.
In FF7 OG, after you save Priscilla from the monster and you go to sleep, Jenova/Sephiroth speak to Cloud in his subconscious, kind of bringing into to question what is going on with Tifa. They ask Cloud why they didn’t see each other back then, and while this isn’t the same as what we saw in this trailer, I believe it’s t is a remnant of something they wanted to explore more, is the Tifa isn’t who she says she is.
They used Tifa as a weapon in the Northern Crater as well, because Tifa is what grounds Cloud to reality. As soon as she says you are wrong Cloud, he snaps. And only after they are reunited in the Lifestream do they come out fully understanding.
Another thing we know is that Jenova/Sephiroth does use the visage of Tifa to manipulate the character holding the Black Materia to return it to Cloud, so we know Jenova can take on any form. That’s what Ifalna says in the reports in OG, Jenova took on the forms of friends and loved ones and tricked the Cetra.
That’s why I feel like they may do something that expands a principle that, for lack of a better way to describe, many OG fans either forgot existed or don’t remember themselves. The story beats will most likely be the same, but the journey there will not be totally expected. And I’m all for it!
Great points, and I actually did forget the scene after saving Priscilla. I was planning to do an OG replay soon (after FF16) to refresh myself on the full journey.
I last played OG right before Remake came out and I've seen playthroughs of it since as people have discovered FF7, but I haven't watched them in full -- only the real major plot points mostly. So good to get a refresher on those smaller moments.
Like the last time, fun and well put together video on a subject dear to my heart. You're in my must-watches along the names you mentioned earlier in this one. Can't wait for FF7 Rebirth
Also, that "different Yuffie with the same experiences" just sort of blew my mind. Love it! xD
These last theories/thoughts are all craaazy good, love them all. Tifa lines early in the game, actual dream vs Jenova influence and Sad Cloud joining Reunion, oh man... So excited for winter 2024
I am right here yelling along with you SubTXT, "Yeah! That WOULD be a banger way to start part 3!" Awesome video. Please keep 'em coming!
Thanks so much. And to reply to your follow-up comments, I had actually initially conceived of this video as a quick "10-15 minute thoughts" thing ... mostly because the editing process of these meticulously edited videos is a killer. But I couldn't help myself as I got writing haha
@@SubTXT_ Quick thoughts might be nice too every once in a while. But these big ones are well appreciated and you've got people rooting for you hard already. Can't wait for more :)
Bit of a correction for you. Intergrade on ps5 is a single 100gb disc. The picture you showed was the ps4 box that was 2 50Gb discs. And yes it will be 1 play disc and 1 installation disc for Rebirth because Play disc data is also installed on both ps5 and ps4 and only acts as a key for the game. So Rebirth will be of nearly 200gb in size and 2 discs is 2 discs doesn't matter if one just sits out or not.
you can check out unboxing of intergrade on RUclips for proof it is a single 100gb disc.
@@GAGPalia Ha, yeah I noticed the "PS4 Pro enabled" icon after uploading. I'm actually a digital player so hadn't realized until too late. But either way, the point stands that yeah... it's gonna be huge.
I heard Tifas role is much bigger in Rebirth and that it will have an Empire Strike Back type ending.
I think you've figured it out man! Pretty brilliant. I think you are pretty much spot on for what's going to happen.
your videos make my day! So great :D
Once again, you knocked it out of the park SubTXT! Repeating my comment on Twitter, you have.... no idea.... how much and for how long I've been trying to convince people on the Single Timeline Theory being what The Remake Trilogy is going for.
Great vids ace.
Thanks for your time.
Im still just waiting to see Cait Sith in battle.
Think I'm the only fan across many YT vids that can't wait to see how it'll work.
I am FASCINATED by how they will pull of Cait Sith and actually get us into it as players haha.
I have a feeling Cait Sith will be his own tag team partner in a lot of attacks by using both himself as the cat and the Moogle body.
@@SubTXT_ that sounds pretty good.
I've heard lots of people excited for Cid and Vincent, and I am too, but I can at least imagine how their combat will work.
With Cait, I have no idea. And it's such a goofy model.
Oh man, I still haven't watch it but I was SO impressed with the last time and, as I tweeted you here and there, your edit stile is top notched! I cannot wait to hear/see your opinions 👀
Well freakin done dude!!
Oh nice! I’ve been waiting for this one. :)
I think reaching north crater is very likely at this point, because of all the reasons you said, indicators in the trailer, past interviews, and 2 discs (which probably just means file size exceeds 100gigs). My real question is what might be left out on the way. Will we still get Wutai, Gongaga, Fort Condor, etc or will some of those be saved for the last game? Certainly some locations on world map can't make it in, like I would be surprised to see Mideel.
Yeah, I think some locations will come in a different order. And the developers had a quote last year that said (paraphrasing), “Because of how we’ve structured the story of this trilogy, we’ve had to rearrange locations and it may feel like we’re skipping but we’re not.”
I think some locations like Wutai and the real Fort Condor make more sense in Part 3. Fort Condor has nothing for the party to do when you first visit it, but you do visit it again when you have to protect the Condor from Shinra troops and get the Huge Materia toward the end of the OG.
Here's what's worth mentioning about the first few seconds of the trailer. We saw the black tornados during the battle against the whispers.
Rufus told the Turks to bring avalanche in. But in the rebirth trailer, they aren't trying to bring them in. They are after Sephiroth.
It stands to reason they were already brought in...and let go.
Haven't watched yet but I have to say you just made my day, SubTXT. This trailer and FFXVI have ignited so much excitement in me, I feel like a kid again lmao and theory videos are just the thing to keep feeding the hype for the months to come.
Appreciate the kind words. Very much looking forward to your thoughts after you watch!
Yes had mess up version of this take time fix mess up mess up editing 🙂
38:20 Cosmo canyon dialogue about red/rex XIII
Way coming out floor from out the ship that ship 🚢 about have everybody talking whole jounior harbour experience have everybody talking walk get to coast de sole with beach 🏖️⛱️ that's going be surprise 🙀,🐕⚽
,🤨📝[🧑🔧👮(🧑✈️🧑🏫🧑💻💂)🕴️🧑🚀🛩️🗾🗺️]
Was wondering if we'd get a video from you on the trailer. This one was a banger!
Thanks! I was just planning for it to be a 10-minute quickie (mostly because these things are tough to edit), but then the script just got a mind of its own halfway through haha
This FF7 Remake is definitely a sequel and what Sephiroth said about Tifa might just be another evil manipulating trick on Cloud cause as far back as I can remember after Tifa was hanging in there after Sephiroth cut her. Then before Shinra arrived her master Zangan came and picked her up and took her to Midgar to get her medical help.
Great video man! I personally don’t agree with the multiverse and alternate timeline theories but you explain them in a clear way. I just think there is enough lore, plot motivations, and concepts in the original game and compilation that you don’t need time mechanics (or the idea of the game being a sequel) to explain what’s going, regardless of whether my personal theory is correct or not.
Speaking of which, your last video on why is Remake spoiling its biggest plot twist really got me thinking and I came up with my own theory. Would love to get your thoughts on it! It’s my first video so editing (esp audio quality) needs some work but I will hopefully improve in that department lol
Thanks. I would definitely check out your vid when it's ready. You can reach back out here within this comment or hit me up on Twitter whenever that is.
As for how time travel works in this particular series, I just replied to another comment with how I think it works and going to paste here because I think it addresses that point.
"[I don't think it's] time travel in the traditional sense, but that's the only traditional reference point that makes it easier to think about. Sleepezi has gone into exhaustive detail on his channel about how the fabric of reality in FF7 is woven. It's so complex that his videos often run for hours on end, so it's hard to tackle here, but here's my best summary:
Reality is created out of memories and consciousness. Kind of a weird way to think of it, but there's enough precedence. That's what the Lifestream consists of and why Lifestream Black (referenced in this video) is about Sephiroth's consciousness in the Lifestream. When people say that Remake has "AC Sephiroth" going about it, it's because his consciousness is enacting itself on reality whenever he wants.
Some proof:
- In Chapter 2 before you meet Aerith, Sephiroth shows up, touches Aerith on the shoulder and says, "You can't save anyone. Not even yourself." I believe that shows Sephiroth understanding a "future memory" about Aerith's Death and Tifa needing to save Cloud's mind while in the Lifestream.
- In the OG game, Sephiroth says at the Temple of the Ancients: “I am far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients. I also gained the knowledge and wisdom of those after the extinction of the Ancients. And soon, I will create the future.”
The "traveler of the Lifestream" reads to me as a fluidity of knowledge throughout time. Could also just be gaining knowledge from deceased consciousnesses/memories in the Lifestream without any time hijinks, but Remake makes it seem like consciousnesses in the Lifestream can move through time.
- In the Chapter 14 resolution scene with Aerith, she seems to want to warn Cloud about his feelings with the line about "You can't fall in love with me." She also hints as her fate with the line "Everyone dies eventually," while doing the prayer pose she did in the Ancient city.
The Co-Director Motomu Toriyama of Remake said in an interview featured in one of the Ultimania books, about Aerith in that scene, "The person who shows up in front of Cloud is an Aerith who's exceptionally close to memories of the future, and who appears there after some sort of consciousness acts upon the Lifestream."
My interpretation of that quote is that it's OG Aerith's consciousness.
I know I wrote a lot there, but that's just to clarify the form of time travel that I do think is occurring in Remake."
@@SubTXT_ thanks for taking the time!
Regarding the nature of time and reality, I agree that the lore of 7 suggests that the Lifestream contains knowledge of any who has or will exist. I was planning on getting to that in my video but as you said it’s such a complicated concept that lends itself to people’s preconceived notions about how time mechanics work in sci-fi/fantasy, that I tabled it for a Part 2 of my theory. Part 1 is up by the way!
It’s funny because those quotes you mention I bring up in my video but I have a different interpretation of them. I do think that the Aerith in Cloud’s resolution scene is a different type of Aerith, but I don’t think it’s OG Aerith. I think it’s her actual spirit in the Lifestream. That’s because a big part of my theory is that Cloud is also in the Lifestream, but I explain how I got there more in my video.
You discussed how you think the Remake scenes aren’t in the Lifestream based on how it’s presented in the compilation. Definitely got to chew on it more. But I don’t think how the LS was presented in the compilation necessarily precludes the scenes in Remake from being in the Lifestream.
Also I think that the Whispers exploding and gold particles raining down on Midgar at the end of Remake was a representation of Aerith removing the hatred of them from the Lifestream like she does in On the Way to a Smile Lifestream White II. I think that the whispers conceptually are the combination of 3 things: the will of the planet, the cries of the planet, and the black Lifestream
Good video, you earned my sub. I will stare something that i don't see mentioned often by people on the single timeline fence. Toriyama has a segment when asked about Zack and Biggs, where he states: "perhaps those who are alive that shouldn't be are in another world."
Sure he could be lying, but i just don't see that.
I've seen people mention that this is a mistranslation, but I've had no corrected sources.
Also my guess as to how cloud and Zack separate is as simple as Zack going into a 7 day coma once he arrives to Midgar from his injuries and strain. Cloud strays away before Zack is found and his journey is pretty much true to OG but i guess without the buster sword Zack
is taken into care by a citizen. He wakes up and tries to find Cloud, can't find him, goes to the church to find Aerith is missing.
In trying to find answers he runs into Biggs and Elmyra who explain they died, and show him the news feed.
Biggs and Elmyra mention Cloud, which sends Zack off on his journey to find Cloud.
To quote Back to the Future Part III; "your future hasn't been written yet. No one's has. Your future is whatever you make it."
I love the idea of events happening parallel to one timeline. It further solidifies my thoughts that the ending of FFVII isn't the true ending/just a blip much like Biff's 1985.
Once I found a legitimate excuse to work BTTF into my video, I got very excited haha. Love those movies so much.
Love love love your takes man. Keep it up! You’re sustaining my obsession at this point haha
Haha thanks. I hope you look forward to me shifting gears a bit to FF16 because that'll probably be the focus of my next couple of videos as I'm sure that game will leave me with plenty to say about it.
You have to consider that the writer’s are treating Remake in a linear way in terms of how they are portraying the sequence of events. The party enters and destroys the whispers in the singularity and this is happening in linear time relevant to their progression of the events of FF7, meaning right before they leave Midgar to Kalm. Otherwise it wouldn’t make any sense, the singularity could just spit them out at any given moment in time. Therefore the whisper explosion is only happening at a point in linear time, otherwise it wouldn’t make any sense.
If the sparkles are happening at at given moment in all of time, they would be constantly raining down for basically eternity from the perspective of someone living in the world.
If the sparkles are happening at all points in time, then when Marle looks up at the sky she should be seeing sparkles at any given hour of the day because every point in time is always present hour to hour, minute to minute, second to second.
Therefore, I don’t think it makes any sense to have the whisper explosion and sparkles happen at all points in time including points in time where the whispers no longer exist from the perspective of how we experience the story.
If you consider that there are 2 timelines de-synced but both follow an overall linear trajectory in terms of how we perceive and experience them in the story, then having the whisper explosion and sparkles rain down in a single instance makes sense.
That's why Zack see's a single instance of this happening where he is that is finite, and Marle sees a single instance of this where she is that is finite-both being in there own respective timelines.
Hmmm, I appreciate how thoughtful this is but I’m not 100% following your proposed logic. I do agree that the party enters the singularity at a particularly point in time and then exits at effectively the same point in time, but I’m not sure I agree with the rest of your conclusion.
Are you proposing that in a second Zack timeline, he and Cloud reach the “last stand” showdown roughly a couple of months later than the OG/Beagle Timeline? And that is why he sees it during a moment that we otherwise believe happened in the past based on the OG canonical timeline?
I suppose that isn’t impossible, but is there any particular evidence of that or a theory to explain how that happened? Or is it just, “in this alternate timeline, it took them longer to escape Nibelheim and reach this point?”
@@SubTXT_ I think the reason why the Whisper dome is shown/happening specifically during Zack last stand ("Price of freedom...") in that flash on the highway for Cloud and Aerith is currently unknown.
So Zack's Last stand is still happening within that point in time, it's not happening later than usual. We don't yet know why the Whisper dome has only formed during Zack's Last Stand (besides at the end of the highway with the party) rather than all points in time simultaneously.
1) We could assume that there are 2 whisper domes, one with our party and one with Zack in our past. They have to be connected so that when one explodes so does the other. We just don't yet know why there was one that formed during Zack's Last stand. It's possible there was a Whisper dome that previously course corrected but has now been undone.
Or
2) We could assume that Zack's TL is happening just a couple months off of our main parties TL. If you will, imagine a greater overarching TL with both of these continuities slightly de-synced by 2 months side by side. So the 1 Whisper Dome takes place at the same time
Main Point: Whatever is happening, it doesn't make sense to assume that the Whisper dome and thus the Whisper explosion and sparkles are happening at all points of time simultaneously. That means they would be constantly present at all times simultaneously.
Or all of this, regardless of either a single altered or 2 timeline could just not really makes sense at all and the writer's didn't think this through.
@@ryanharrison3118 hmmm yeah, it's a very interesting part of all this that I'm still wrapping my head around. I was on Schrodingersbabyseal’s Twitch stream the other day and we were talking about how confusing the dome is within the chronology (regardless of timelines). We both believe in a single Remade timeline, but we didn’t exactly agree on how it seems to work… and my gut is that it may end up feeling like a plot hole. I start chatting in the stream 1:11:00 into the video. We talk specifically about the dome and Whisper timeline topic at 03:36:30 in the link here... I just listened back to some of it and think it'll be right up your alley given our convo: www.twitch.tv/videos/1883301159
And there are good alternative thoughts on what we say in the chat alongside it.
It might feel a bit less like a plot hole if it was a targeted intervention as you propose (only happening at the end of the highway and during Zack’s Last Stand), but then it would also feel a bit contrived and inconsistent with the (currently) presented understanding of how the Whispers operate. I was just talking about this with another commenter the other day who thinks the Whispers intervened in that moment in order to save Zack. While I understand that interpretation (and believed it myself for a while), it does feel a bit inconsistent with how Red XIII explains the Whispers as “arbiters of fate” who work against those who threaten to “alter Destiny’s course.” It's why they sometimes work in our favor (saving Barret, saving the party on the highway, etc) and sometimes work against us (stopping the party from preventing Reno & Rude from dropping the plate, etc).
As far as we know from the OG, Zack's destiny is to die. So to save his life would be to alter Destiny - seemingly working against their mission. Unless they really 5D chess’d out a logic that saving Zack would ultimately lead to correcting the timeline months down the road. They don't seem to be able to act with THAT much foresight and seem more reactive (a topic Babyseal and I talk about on his stream), so it seems like a bit of a long shot. But it's not impossible. Either way, I feel like however they explain it will FEEL like has a few plot holes no matter what.
we should just get a congress of TIfa all the Tifa from every universe together
Hmmmmm great thoughts!
There is a lot of information in the title reveal trailer, which I don't see people cover much in this trailer. And I always love one single line, which is very META on my part:
"What we've done, that's set in stone. The past is forever. But the future, even if it has been written, can be changed"
There are a lot of failed products or badly executed ideas from FF7 Compilation and/or the FF series as a whole (Different writers/directors different ideas etc) but this time they want to make it right.
"So focus on the future, not the past"
Of course, this is Aerith talking about those glimpses into the future when fighting the Whisper Harbinger and spread throughout the game where Cloud sometimes zoned into.
And let's not forget unlike FF16, FF7R was written in Japanese, and localization into other languages, in turn, causes a lot of loss in translation.
I'm on the 2+ timelines side of this FF7R trilogy. From the standpoint of fanfics hobbyist.
Every FF7R's titles so far hint at 'This is Sephiroth's story' the AC's one, after infused with Lifestream.
'What is Sephiroth's endgame?'
Let's say the AC Sephiroth wants to weed out every other Jenova clone Sephiroth, why? So they won't mess him up, and cancel out his existence, but again, AC Sephiroth is almost living on another plane of existence (the end of part 1). This is quite a weak theory, story.
Also, there is one line of Aerith when the party exited Kalm, she stated that the planet is alive and feels even stronger than her. This line was crafted just before Bugenhagen's remark about Lifestream and the planet's existence for a few seconds. And this is after Zack's realization of Aerith's missing at the end of INTERMISSION, where the flowers were shown withering. This can be the connection between the parallel timeline, where one dies, the other grows stronger. So every version of Sephiroth is out for blood to take control of the lifestream. With only AC Sephiroth had already infused with it.
So about the story arc of each timeline.
On everyone alive but Zack, we will play exactly the same game as the OG. Those who didn't already play the OG can experience the story for the first time, but for those who DID play the OG, this is where the fun part begins.
As the game hints at future events leave those who didn't play wondering and give hope to those who did play that they can change the future this time, just like the infamous April's Fool long ago. And SE will deliver the second blow to salt over the wound for those people, which will cause the uproar, again. This is why AC Sephiroth needs Cloud on his side because this time Cloud had fully aware of the future event. The "seven seconds till the end. Time enough for you, perhaps. But what will you do with it?" is the hint the City of the Ancient's event, calculated or not, matches up nicely.
AC Sephiroth will become the necessary evil in this trilogy. And how he's gonna do it? Manipulate Cloud just like the OG but with the truth. Jenova can become those you hate (Seph to Cloud), those you fear (Jenova to Yuffie), those you love (Tifa to Cloud). This is where SE can fix the inconsistencies between OG, CC, and the far-reach Last Order (The Nibelheim incident alone, and the recreation of the Tifa-Sephiroth confront scene). Many lines were shifted around out of place and order, and Tifa was shown still conscious when Zack / Cloud arrived. But in the OG Cloud memories, Tifa was out cold if not dead as stated by Cloud in Kalm.
This also expands on the lore of the OG while still keeping the structure intact, if not fortifying it, where Master Zangan can't "cure" on Tifa, at the time Tifa is the main plot point and was created for Cloud so they couldn't kill her off. Which sparked another debate, why couldn't you use Phoenix Down on Aerith? Because Aerith is the plot device for the story as a whole, her sacrifice is needed (Well, New Threat treats this more casually LOL). This ties up a few loose knots nicely, and AC Sephiroth can also use this as a tool to manipulate Cloud. A good villain can manipulate, but he needn't lie.
So how I'm gonna do it? Let the player choose. On the Aerith route, you can save Aerith, but in turn, Jenova Tifa will turn and no one can pull Cloud's consciousness out of lifestream, and join the Reunion, and the planet is doomed (Aerith doesn't share the memories with Cloud as much as Tifa, AND the game straight out said the Cloud-Aerith ship was not true, Aerith was aware of Cloud feelings, memories for her were of Zack's). Or the Tifa route, where you can keep the OG story intact, and emphasize even more on Aerith's sacrifice because everyone involve was fully aware of it. Not much of a choice, because the choice is the illusion, back to April's Fool where you could revive Aerith. This pays off the "PROMISE" theme
And now on Zack's timeline. How it will play out and who will involve in it.
Zack: on the quest seeking out Aerith, or the black feather's owner. Can keep the CC gameplay if SE wants to go with the solo hero route.
Cloud: the OG Cloud had no recollection of Zack until Tifa joined him in his consciousness. But the reveal trailer clearly stated that Cloud asking for Zack's whereabouts. But this time without Tifa, so he will join the Reunion and become the proto-Kadaj. Which turns out to be the end goal of Zack's quest. Die trying to pull Jenova out of Cloud, and recreate the ending of AC, once again. Because that's what a hero does. Also, reunite with Aerith in the lifestream.
Potential member.
Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie: Jessie will become the love interest of Cloud, and also pay off her Loveless role.
The Turks: Zack and the Turk while are not on the same side but have a common enemy. Jenova / Sephiroth / Deepground etc. Bringing Before Crisis into the mainstream game.
Remaining characters of the cast: Yuffie, Vincent, Cait, and Cid.
OR
Include Glenn's trio of Ever Crisis into the party with the common "HERO" theme. Glenn has a lot of similar features to Cloud, and too much Jack, Meteor's energy to bite the dust so soon in Ever Crisis, and may pay off as Cloud's dad if needed. Everyone involved can have an ending.
Or they can go ham on the original ending, where everyone dies LOL but this is similar to Aerith's route so it is not as much fun.
I didn't watch any of your previous videos so I may be out of context here. And forgot a few points when reaching this part LOL
On the reason why it is on 2 discs. The massive world and content alone are one part, the other problem is how the assets were compressed and failed to load in FF7R. I believe while it is not an open world (which I find overrated with how many dead, flat empty worlds in the past few years, with only Elden Ring rewarding those who explore) Rebirth is a big open zone with 2 big plot point location as entrance and everything in-between can be one asset uncompressed.
And where will Rebirth end?
I will put the stop a little earlier than Tifa waking up. Sephiroth's rebirth, Weapon escaping, and Tifa passing out can be the ending CGI (I'd prefer if they keep the ingame models not the CGI one). Tifa's 7 days of sleep is the metaphor for the time we'll wait for part 3. And Tifa's flashback at the train station with Cloud emphasize her role in the third act. While also introducing the incoming danger as the looming comet shows up.
As for the title of part 3. Please, anything but redemption. To me, the FF7R trilogy is AC Sephiroth's story, but if Golbez couldn't redeem himself after what he had done and sacrificed himself for the sake of the world, Sephiroth can stay as the poster boy of the villainy of the FF series.
Regarding the OG:
I always thought it was weird that Tifa, Cloud's oldest friend, never mentioned her confusion earlier in the game. The story he tells in Kalm is before he starts showing his massive mental issues. Everything up to that point is very minor. Nothing to have big concerns over.
In reality, a friend is going to call out the details that you're getting wrong when you're telling a story that you were both present for. I even think that Tifa should have chimed in and clarified points or added information that Cloud didn't know or see. It's more realistic. They would go back and forth.
It actually was going to be in the OG, but they cut it. I think they were afraid that it would ultimate give away that there was something wrong with Cloud's story. The logic from Tifa's side is explained after Cloud goes missing in the Lifestream. It was clear that Cloud was pretty messed up and she was afraid that saying something might trigger a psychotic break or something else, so she says that she chose to simply watch him. She was also confused because as far as she knew, Cloud was NOT in Nibelheim when Sephiroth went crazy, but Cloud did seem to know all of the events. So she was trying to piece things together too. If you're afraid your friend is mentally fragile, I can understand being afraid of telling them that their memory of reality is wrong.
@SubTXT_ I agree that when Tifa first finds Cloud, he is in very bad shape. And she would be understandably worried. However, she isn't present when he has most of his mental breaks in Midgar.
Barret sees him acting weird before fighting the first boss. Aerith sees it a few times. The only times Tifa sees it herself is the second reactor and Jenova in the Shinra Headquarters. I agree the reactor one is bad because he collapses again, but Jenova scares everyone who sees her. 😆
I know that Square was not wanting to draw too much attention to Cloud's incorrect memories yet. And that's the big reason why, I just hope that Tifa adds a little bit to the story as well. I also think it's logical for the other party members to ask Tifa her thoughts too. It just feels natural.
On the single timeline, I fully agree. I have a different way to explain it, but yes. My way to explain it comes from the ultimania, Sephiroth is holding time still 7 seconds before the fate of the planet is sealed, and is manipulating the planet's memories. To manipulate memories is to manipulate reality itself. Can anyone remember an alternate timeline? No? Then why would one exist by manipulating memories? In ff7 the original game put a lot of emphasis on not just knowledge (memories) but also the consciousness when it comes to hearing the planet and in the Lifestream.
Of an interesting note, if Zack is watching the news report, World Preview implied and emphasized another location where a big event is going on the same day remake starts, Icicle Inn, where Jade weapon is being slain by the 'turks in exile'
I really like this theory and you could definitely be right. Every time I hear Nomura's name I just get pissed off because he allowed Tabata to take the blame for FF15 when it was his project all along and he ran to KH3 and Tabata had only 3 month to try to fix FF15 and Nomura acted like he had nothing to do with it. That really disgusted me.
Lol it's funny Nomura said that about ppl wondering how they crammed so much content into such a short amount of time, cus that is LITERALLY what I was thinking after watching a lot of the footage that has been released thus far.
The dev time hasn't even been that long, and this was during COVID! So how in the heck did they recreate ALL of the content from the OG FF7 Disc 2, as well as all of these NEW mechanics I've been seeing in such a short amount of time? The budget & dev team must be GIGANTIC for them to have gotten this done!
I just hope the final product is polished & not a buggy mess... It would seem impossible for them to create all of this AND have the time to polish it all to a mirror sheen. I really hope they aren't rushing the game out the door & spend the time necessary to polish it, even if it means a delay. I have never minded waiting for great things!
have in mind that lot of animations and assets are reusable in rebirth that were used in remake and crisis core reunion so it cuts do dev time a lot
Random note: the singularity exists in FF7 OG. Watch Bugenhagen's planetary cinematic. You'll see it. Its also black-purple.
I waited so long for this
Tifa talking about Clouds Story to Aerith was cut content in the original
I'm aware, but it was conceivably cut for a reason. And I think it was more than just not fitting. It was just a convo. They could have kept it. It was likely to protect the Cloud reveal, which they are fully giving away and have given away by Hojo openly saying, "My boy, you weren't a SOLDIER" and releasing Crisis Core Reunion.
@@SubTXT_ oh yeah totally agree.. I just find it interesting/ironic that they are reintroducing cut content in service of the new mysteries in remake. I can see them adding more cut stuff in the next games
@@OldManSakaki I do think we’re on the same page that however this all ends up - however many timelines there will be - it’ll be closer to the OG than most think even if it looks quite different on the surface (which is the point I make around 11 mins into this video)
Whether that will be good or satisfying tho 🤷🏻♂️
Just discovered your channel and your videos have been great. Thank you for adding some subtitles to this video - the sound quality of your VO is a little light and hard to hear in this video.
Thanks for the feedback. I’ve been trying to figure out how to get the right balance of mic volume and music. To my ears it sounded like a good balance, but sounds like I can make my voice a bit higher.
I received a few comments on this one that the voice over was coming in low. It was my first time using a new video editing tool and admittedly, the audio mixing was a bit confusing in it. I uploaded this unlisted version. Is this better? Is the mic too loud? Just right? Let me know ruclips.net/video/NjL-TwFcC6o/видео.html
I believe its the same timeline too. The 2 timelines camp keep pointing out the different Stamp. I think the Singularity also affected ANOTHER pivotal moment in the FF7 timeline and one of the butterfly effects was a changed Stamp. I dont think theyre going to show us what else was changed yet. Perhaps there was something that happened pre-Crisis Core that had an affect on Midgar?
Theres absolutely no way theres 1 timeline. If Zack lives earlier in the same time line, all events with Cloud would never happen. Cloud wouldn't be present with the party in the future.
You cant travel in the past, change anything, and reach a similar future. You obviously can't have 2 Clouds either. What happens with the Cloud of the past and Cloud of the future? Cloud is still the same at end of Remake so its not like Cloud of past still becomes Cloud of Future unless Zack still dies anyways. There are many paradoxes if you try to say theres 1 singular timeline.
The stuff with Aerith and Sephiroth in the lifestream is important. All those scenes where Cloud sees Aerith can be Aerith in lifestream just sending memories to Cloud. Sephiroth does it to himself, Aerith does it to herself, ect.
I think there are some potential explanations to many of your points.
If the Singularity acted in the way that I theorized in the second part of this video, then there could be 2 Clouds. It would seem the party stepped out of reality when going into the Singularity and then reality itself was changed by defeating the Arbiters of Fate aka Whispers. When they step back into reality from the Singularity, it is a different version of reality - the one where Zack lived and where we see a different version of Stamp the dog on the chips bag. The reality that our party left - the one that Aerith warns “there’s no going back” to on the Highway - has been undone. And the one we stepped back into has a different version of Cloud and the rest of the party that has lived life without the intervention of the Whispers.
It’s weird and confusing, but so was the original FF7 on your first playthrough. “Wait, so this Sephiroth guy we’ve been chasing around the world has actually been Jenova? Cloud wasn’t in Nibelheim, but his black-haired Cloud was?”
Hopefully it all gets explained well.
I could be wrong, but it’s not inconceivable IMO.
Gotta thank Nomura for this mind fuck of a timeline
Interesting theory!
do you think Bugenhagen's explanations in FF7Rebirth will be modified to account for memories/consciousness aspects?
Very possibly. I know a lot of fans have been counting on him to explain a lot of new elements such as the timelines and whatnot. That could potentially happen, but I do think it would be explained via memories and their role in the Lifestream.
It all gets VERY heady and confusing very quickly, but it’s not as if the devs are shying away from it after saying logically confusing things like “memories of the future” and having Aerith say “moments and memories” a couple of times in Remake. There is one thing I’m very interested in seeing in Cosmo Canyon: more about the convo that disturbs Aerith. If you remember the campfire scene in Cosmo Canyon, Aerith at one point gets very quiet because she says she just had a convo that made her think… but she never really talks about it. I’m very curious what that was.
@@SubTXT_ oh i forgot about the campfire scene...damn hopefully we will get a trailer in2-3 months!
I said this elsewhere, but what I think whats up with all the changes from the original is this....
Most people already figured out this is a sequel, not a true remake....But my theory is that when Aerith prayed for Holy, and then died, her spirit went through the lifestream, and entered her body in the past in that pipe scene in the opening. Time now has a sort of "barrier" locked around the world dividing past from present, and shes trying to alter the past so that meteor isnt summoned OR if it is, they get Holy summoned this time in plenty of time to stop it. I also think a big twist is going to be that a pre-nutjob "good" version and an evil version of Sephiroth are both working against each other, one trying to stop it in his own way, the other trying to make sure things happen as they are supposed to in the original so the planet is wounded.
Play the game again, and watch for clues to these two revelations, and you'll see what I mean. I could be wrong, but knowing how Nomura thinks going by his other games, I'm probably not far off.
What if the “her” Sephiroth is saying he killed is Aerith?
While I thought about that at one point, there is a direct translation of the Japanese version of the trailer where Sephiroth specifically says, "Tifa." Even as someone who doesn't speak Japanese, you can also hear him say her name.
Interesting. Perhaps Cloud will break because he can't reconcile the events of FF7, FF7AC, FF7CC, FF7R. Aerith DOES know about the alternate events and CAN reconcile between them. Tifa, Barrett and the others DON'T know about the alternate events.
If Zack and Aerith meet, it will their interactions will be interesting to say the least. Makes me wonder what happened to the Cloud Zack saved in Remake.
Yeah that’s a good point. I touch on something KINDA similar to that in the video I’m literally editing as I reply to this haha. Should hopefully be done in a couple of days or so. I didn’t mention this exact thing, but it’s a good point.
Regarding Sephiroth saying he killed Tifa, it can be explained by something as simple as: In his mind Sephiroth struck Tifa and that was it for him, good as dead and Cloud killed Sephiroth believing that Tifa was killed.
That is possible, but since Sephiroth has always been a manipulator that twists the truth to mess with Cloud’s mind, I think it’s a little more in character that it’s a purposeful deception.
I just don't understand the single timeline. Like we literally saw zack and cloud walk past Aerith and the others outside of Midgar like they were in two completely different dimensions.
If there's two parties in the same timeline then wouldnt everybody in the different towns recognise them for the news footage of the group being carried away on stretchers?
What am I missing here?
It’s kind of irrelevant now. The latest trailer and footage shows that the party is still in the same timeline from Part 1 and Zack seems to be in another.
But since you asked… At its most simple, the single timeline just argued that - based on FF7 lore - the world is made up of shared memories. In the new Ever Crisis mobile game, the intro made the same argument: that the world was made up of the memories in the Lifestream. Memories = reality is weird but it’s something Nomura talked about years ago. The idea was that since the main party undoes fate, it undoes the canon memories in the Lifestream and creates a new timeline where anything is possible: the one where Zack lives and the Shinra dog mascot is a Terrier instead of a Beagle. The singularity is a safe place outside of reality. So when they step back into reality, it would be that new timeline instead of the old one.
But in the new footage, there is a Beagle in Junon so it’s confirmed that there are indeed separate timelines.
In short, us who’ve spent too much time with the lore thought too hard. That said, single timeline and multiple timeline people TECHNICALLY agreed. People who believed in multiple timelines argued that the timelines would have to merge eventually. Single timeline people just thought it happened at the end of Remake. But in the new Rebirth trailer, it sounds like Sephiroth is saying the timelines (or worlds) will merge in Rebirth. In the trailer he says: “The Reunion: when worlds merge.” Presumably Zack’s world and our world becoming one reality instead of two separate ones.
easiest stuff that there are 2 timelines. look at the cross in the church. remake = stone. og = wood. at the ending of yuffie dlc when you see zack there is a wooden cross. that implies he lives in the og timeline (which is a deviation from the original). i guess the main party that lives is the "remade" version, in the zack timeline he will save cloud from the reunion at the northern crater
Another great video!
Latley, I've been inclined to think that Rebirth will end at the Raid on Sector 8. It's an often overlooked key scene in the OG and the compilation. It's the part where Hojo reveals that he's Sephiroth's father and concedes that Cloud is the only successful Sephiroth Clone. In this scene, Hojo is attempting to use the sister ray to empower Sephiroth before he's defeated as Heretic Hojo. Consider everything that is going on with Cloud right now, can we expect this scene to play out anything like before?
What's more is Hojo most likely has been instrumental in what's going on in Remake and is perhaps aware of what Cloud really is thanks to his protégé, Chadley. If his goal is to empower Sephiroth, then he knows that Cloud is the solution to that.
This scene also sets the stage for Dirge of Cerberus because it's when Hojo uploads his consciousness to become 'Virtual Hojo' during the intro. There's also something else interesting in DofC's intro. That being 'apparently' dead bodies being loaded onto helicopters in Sector 2 just like the trailer. I think there have been subtle hints to 'Virtual Hojo's presence in their network. But I digress.
As for the bodies in Rebirth's trailer, I and 1,000% guarantee they will be returned to Hojo simply because Aerith is among them. Hojo basically allowed them to escape in the first place. His line is 'he has all the data he needs'.
The Sector 8 Raid would be our return to Midgar after 'dying' which brings us full circle with Remake. Thus, I see this scene being set up for a twisted revelation as to what is going on with Reunion Cloud and the dead bodies. Perhaps something like Reunion Cloud being the real Cloud and the one we've been playing as is the copy that his consciousness now occupies. I could even see Cloud's friends confronting Hojo before the NC under the desperate presumption that he can undo what he did. At which point Hojo gives his twisted revelation that adds another huge twist on top of the cliffhanger of meteorfall. Generally, I see this scene playing out like a jenovafied version of the "man behind the curtain' from Wizard of Oz. Except Hojo is 'The Wizard'. He's often overlooked in many theories, but he's the godfather of all of these monsters in FFVII.
FWIW, that music you hear on the first floor of Shinra HQ is from Dirge of Cerberus in the Shinra HQ ruins. The design for that huge gear sculpture appears in one other place. That being the scene where Hojo explains to Vincent how he is able to occupy Weiss's body. A scene they not so subtly nodded to in Intergrade.
The raid on Sector 8 is the last mission before the final dungeon, so are you seeing a major remixing where Rebirth blasts through the rest of the OG content and Part 3 is effectively all new stuff that leads to the ending?
@@SubTXT_
I do see part 3 being the most divergent. I think Rebirth might even go all the to the end of OG and end just like it did (minus Aerith and Naniki's scenes). That in of itself was a cliffhanger until 2004.
Also worth keeping in mind that FFVIIR was originally supposed to be 2 titles, so going this far isn't out of the question. Especially if the level cap is (a proper) level 99.
And, if we're to reach the NC, the assets would essentially be there to go all the way if the they desired. And, to offer the entire post-Midgar segment in a single title would be a major selling point.
Regarding meteorfall, what I think will be different this time around is that Sephiroth will spare the planet from meteor and absorb all it's energy.
Part 3 begin with the lifestream sequence where Cloud is saved and reborn so that he can face the reborn Sephiroth in a final battle.
That's the gist of it anyway.
@@deltasyn7434 so yeah, you’re thinking it goes FULL Evangelion Rebuild. I think dev quotes continually saying it won’t be completely different contradict that a bit TOO much. Like I said, I think they’re feeding us white lies, but they wrote themselves a check they have to cash by saying it won’t be completely different.
If they go that far, I think they’ll anger people too much after everything they said.
"Unreliable Memory in a Unreliable World." This is something that I never thought of it but it may be a major element in Rebirth.
I really can't wait for Rebirth and see how they payoff all of these mysteries and payoffs (and find out which they answer and which they don't).
The problem with time travle and the timeline in BTTF2 is that when old Biff cant just go back to 1955 and back to 2015 because of what he changes in 1955. He goes back in time to hes young self and hand over the book with sport results with the timemachine he took from 2015. When he then go forward in time to return the Delorian 2015 he should return to the "alternative" 2015. The 2015 when hes is the Rich badass and all that follows with it. He sould not return to the 2015 where he came from. The same 2015 that Marty and Dock remains. Biff could not have returned the Delorian to Marty for him to undo the change. When Biff changes hes past with the Book in 1955 he changes the future both 1985 and 2015 thus return in a diffrent world form the one he left. Note that some things has to happen in a certan order to work out. Biff would not be able to return the Delorian to Marty who would be stuck in 2015 without the time machine. Without the timemachine Marty would not be able to go back in time to take the book back.
So anxious to hear your thoughts on the new Rebirth trailer!!
Oh no, now I feel pressure haha. Honestly, it has changed quite a bit for me. I think my last video about The Unreliable World is more relevant than ever, but some elements of this video are less relevant. For example, I’m definitely leaning back into multiple timelines/worlds.
I will definitely post some thoughts once I feel I have something substantive to say. I do have another Sephiroth-focused video cooking though.
@@SubTXT_ oh I'm very happy to know that!
I still think your previous theories are spot on! Including the single timeline (that's the reason I wanted to know your take on it). I don't know what to make of the Cloud on Zack's back, but assuming he got on Midgar between the plate falling and the party leaving, I think that's not the same Cloud that we're playing with. If I had to guess, maybe the role of that Cloud (the one with both shoulder caps) is gonna be something like the puppet Cloud. He should be conscious after Zack's (not) death and he's clearly not awake. I'd speculate that this has something to do with the fact that Cloud's soul is already in use 😂. Which could be a full plate for Sephiroth. But that's all it is for now, pure speculation! Enlighten us with your thoughts!
First off-- love your content! Was looking forward to your take on this and am just starting to watch it now.
Secondly, could you please increase the volume? Your voice is so quiet. I have to increase my audio very high but the music ends up blasting my ears while I still barely hear your voice.
Edit: Also yes-- I completely agree that the 2 disc thing is actually referring to the size of the game. Remake was never touted as 2 discs in big bold letters on a trailer, and SE knows their fans very well, plus the whole 'this will be huge' talk from the devs should tell us we're getting a massive game. Kind of makes me wonder if part 3 is going to be shorter, though... or longer.
I received a few comments on this one that the voice over was coming in low. It was my first time using a new video editing tool and admittedly, the audio mixing was a bit confusing in it. I uploaded this unlisted version. Is this better? Is the mic too loud? Just right? Let me know ruclips.net/video/NjL-TwFcC6o/видео.html
I agree that there is no another timeline, but rather another world - the world within the lifestream. That world is full of consciousness of the dead in a dream state. Only the Cetra, and thru them, that one can retain consciousness in that world. This means that Zack, and the other, are in their dream state which will turn into a nightmare when Jenova corrupts them to become a whisper. It is thru Aerith's help that the gang got out of corruption and helps her stop the meteor manifesting as the lifestream :) My thoughts only hehe
Sephiroth goal to combine both worlds is an attempt to merge all lifestream while geostigma is still irrelevant, and activate Omega and make sure the weapon successfully finishes its mission this time. Sephiroth wants to reach the realm of the Creator :D
I really hope that Rebirth ends in the Northern Crater. It just makes sense honestly. It's when everything goes wrong and would set up a great part 3 where the party goes around the world, get back on its feet and overcome their adversaries. Also not ending it at the Crater will force part 3 to be super big and I don't know if they can manage that. They've already cornered themselves by making the whole of Midgar which is around 15% of the og game as one part so the other 2 parts of trilogy needs to be big in order to cover everything. Most importantly I want a lot of FF7 content, that's probably the main reason why I want it to end there haha
I most definitely think it gets up to that point. I’m about 99% sure. It simply makes the most sense narratively. Plus, they’ve been working on the content of the game for almost twice as long as Part 1 so they’ve had time to make a lot.
(Part 1 dev started in 2015 by an outside studio BUT got halted and restarted inside Square Enix in 2017/2018)
Maybe Sephiroth is not refering to Tifa when he said you know I killed her. Sephiroth is refering to Aerith. The videos are mis-directing so that we think he is refering to Tifa. Which means It's not only Aerith who remembers but also Sephiroth.
I had meant to also include the Japanese version of the trailer. He outright says, “I was the one who killed Tifa. So, who is she?” You can also hear him say Tifa.
Here is a subtitled version: x.com/aitaikimochi/status/1666944031237210117?s=46&t=heBoPmDBhMcVUvipWfsTXA
That tifa being a clone would make sense because young tifa had brown eyes and now she has slightly red "demon" eyes. But I could be wrong...but that's interesting.
Actually sephiroth making cloud question if tifa is real is in the original, in junon after saving Pricilla when you rest in the house the voice in clouds head says “tifa was there 5 years ago, but where was she other then that?”
Regarding Yuffie. I think you have it wrong. It's the same Yuffie as in the "state" of the beagle. Since it's the same timeline, it's the same substance, which means she just wasn't affected by the butterfly effect, since she didn't encounter anything that would change her development. Therefore, Yuffie in both states is the same Yuffie, literally physically, it is the same molecules.
The single timeline theory falls apart when you take into account causality. Its why reverse time travel like in BTTF is widely considered impossible. If Zack and Cloud live, then Cloud never takes on his identity or identifies himself as first class...doesn't even get the buster sword in fact. Which means he doesn't go on any bombing runs, and never falls into Aerith's church. In fact, he would likely have met Aerith earlier as Zack would be looking to reconnect. The whole series of events leading up to the expressway and the singularity would not occur. So those events cant both occur and not occur in the same universe. Has to be a different universes where the timelines diverged at different points in time (Sept vs Dec), this would avoid the causality paradox.
While I also don't subscribe to the single timeline theory, I'll try to explain their point of view on this.
Basically, Zack arrives at Midgar, drops terrier Cloud off somewhere. Zack either leaves Midgar or hides somewhere in Midgar for a few days or so. Then Terrier Cloud meets Tifa, grabs a different sword and basically goes through all the events that we played in the regular story all the way to the expressway where all the terrier party dies and terrier Cloud succumbs to Sephiroths influence. That way they don't have to go through the redundancy of re-introducing beagle Cloud to characters like Rude in the Mythril Mines (for example) because otherwise Rude would not have met Cloud or remember fighting him. That's the running single timeline theory anyway.
In my opinion I think it would be really weird to have this huge monumental moment at the ending of Remake Part 1 with the Whisper explosion signifying everything is now going to be different with Zack alive......and then just basically be like- "Ummm.... actually let Zack drop Cloud off, have Zack hide out for a while, have the same series of events play out more or less exactly the same and THEN have Zack show back up in Midgar again and things can be different."
I do think there are certainly holes with the single timeline theory, but I just struggle to foresee how they can tell a story that involves multiple timelines.
If there are multiple timelines, then why would the Whispers work to maintain only one of them? Why would it matter so much to maintain any of them, in fact, if that timeline was just one of several potential endpoints? And why would Sephiroth care so much if he could win or lose in any number of timelines? Why would Aerith be so afraid of walking into the Singularity and warn "This is the point of no return. There is no going back. If we do this, we will be changing more than fate itself. We will be changing ourselves."
Those elements don't really line up with a multiple timeline story and there's a lack of consequence to almost anything if there are multiple timelines. And regardless of whether there are two timelines or just one, even the major proponents of a dual timeline theory (like Max Dood) have openly said that the timelines will have to converge at some point because it needs to reach a singular conclusion in some way.
But as I said in the video, there are enough loose ends that I wouldn't be completely shocked if it ends up being more than one timeline.
@@SubTXT_ I think these are all excellent question you bring up. I’ll give you my own take.
Whether single or alternate, we agree that we are basically dealing with timelines. Calling these “timelines” is the most convenient way we give it a label and I think whatever is happening could be functioning very mechanically like a “timeline” in the sense that it is something like two realities happening simultaneously or adjacent to each other.
All of these question that you propose are under the assumption that whatever these “timelines” are, function like timelines in other types of media that we can draw comparisons. How “timelines” are broken/divided or joined/merged in FF7’s world may not be necessarily how they are in some other fiction.
Looking into FF7 lore we know that all of life is basically comprised of the lifestream. *from ff7 wiki -> It contains the essence of the planet and the memories, emotions and knowledge of all who have lived it. Portions of the lifestream are believed to be used to create new life on the planet, and the energy of a person returns to the planet when they die, bringing with it the emotions, memories, and knowledge they obtained during life.
What is Sephiroth exactly at this point? Where is he? In what kind of existence does he occupy? What is he able to do or manipulate? We have no idea, this is still a mystery. All we can surmise is that he has been a part of the lifestream and we don’t know what he has been up to or what his plan is. Is it possible for Sephiroth to mess with the lifestream in a way that he has created some kind of alternate reality? Tampering with the lifestream itself?
Taken all of this into consideration and going back to your questions:
Questions: Why would the Whispers work to maintain only one of them? Why would it matter so much to maintain any of them, in fact, if that timeline was just one of several potential endpoints? And why would Sephiroth care so much if he could win or lose in any number of timelines?
The Whispers, being a product of the planet’s defense, must in turn be a product of the lifestream. What Sephiroth is doing may be causing a spiritual catastrophe by messing with the lifestream by fracturing into two separate realities. Using the planet’s memories to create a reality. The Whispers, screaming in torment, may be desperately trying to maintain the planets destiny in both of these realities simultaneously. So I’m not saying multiple timelines in the sense of infinite timelines. I think Sephiroth is using specifically two realities for an unknown end goal. Yes, I think they could most likely merge at some point and we don’t know what the purpose/function and result of all of this will be yet.
Question: Why would Aerith be so afraid of walking into the Singularity and warn "This is the point of no return. There is no going back. If we do this, we will be changing more than fate itself. We will be changing ourselves."
I don’t think this specfically suggests single or two realities. Like you say, even the single timeline theory is based on another timeline existing in the first place.
I'm sure a lot of us all agree that Bugenhagen will give us some kind of lore dump that will give us more information concerning these new changes specific to Remake. Given that Bugenhagen specializes in the knowledge of the planet and lifestream, I'm curious if he will explain it has some kind of fracture/corruption.
So considering this all, I don’t agree that this necessarily lacks consequence. Everything depends on what the purpose/function and result of these two realities that Sephiroth is using and how it relates to the lifestream and existence.
@@ryanharrison3118 All good thoughts. I don't have great answers yet, to be honest. I did want to give you something additional to chew on, though.
The primary theory at the end of Sleepezi's long "FF7 Remake Solved" video was essentially that the Whispers are actually working at the behest of Jenova specifically. Technically from within the Lifestream, but not necessarily the lifestream itself (which presumably has good intent unlike Jenova). His evidence was pretty compelling.
Even more perplexing to me about his theory though, is that Sephiroth is actually working to defy Jenova. Hence why he seems unbothered by them and acting against them at times. So Sephiroth seems to want to change things while Jenova seemingly wants to keep things on track because it ultimately leads to infecting the planet with Geostigma and the supposed "bad ending" that the party is now trying to avert.
There's even a bit of a hint at these different versions of Sephiroth - one more directly influenced by Jenovan and one who isn't ("Ore" Sephiroth from the Edge of Creation) both in Remake itself and in the Rebirth trailer. When Sephiroth is describing Jenova toward the end of the trailer, his eyes are a different color than we're used to (presumably the Sephiroth eye color we're used to is a byproduct of SOLDIER experiments and Jenova cells). It may just look that way because of the purple Jenova lighting in the scene, but his eyes look pretty blue rather than the more traditional green-ish color. I wondered if that was an example of a Sephiroth that was unlinked from Jenova and doing this own thing as per that Sleepezi theory, but I also think I can be overthinking it haha.
Omg Sephiroth is Biff. Great comparison.
I believe that instead of back to the future, this is more like avengers quantum real time travel, for sure Aerith and Sephiroth have the consciousness of the first FFVII they travel trough the life stream, there for, they are changing the timeline.
When the team enters the singularity that’s the quantum real entrance sort of speak where they enter and they are spit out in another point that was changed because of the actions of sephiroth and Aerith also the team.
So they enter the “time travel machine” aka the singularity in a point in the ffvii original point and they are spit out in the past the exact moment when Zack is supposed to die, so I believe that rebirth takes place in that new world where Zack is alive but Zack is barely arriving to midgar while the team is on its way to nehibelheim.
For sure there are 2 todas, 2 batters etc
Our main heroes and ones in the accident, probably Zack will be the one try to save those heroes and eventually will meet up.
So this came up again. Post new rebirth trailer, its still one timeline. Zack is exploring the end if before crisis during its most major event, the summoning of the World Ender by Fuhito, and the public execution of the avalanche leader Elfe.
This is an awesome video, bud.
I'm honestly so curious about all that will happen in Rebirth, especially as it pertains to how Sephiroth is going to manipulate Cloud against the team.
Have you played the OG?
@@domx7zero157 LMAO, it's literally been my favorite FF since I was fourteen and I kind of do analysis videos on it, so ye.
@@LullyJo Why are you curious about the story then? Kitase confirmed that the story will keep its original course. Are you one of those people who think it's sequel to the OG? When its called a remake?
@@domx7zero157 Because it has also been confirmed that there will be changes. The ending of Remake itself proves this and the opening to the Rebirth trailer also confirms it will not be 100% the same. So certain things will change, including HOW characters are used against each other.
And no, I do not consider this "just" a remake and everyone who has spent copious amounts of time with the original game and the compilation will tell you it is not going to be exactly the same and will take diversions. It already has, so to continue to argue that it won't is just willful ignorance.
@@LullyJo There will be additions, not changes, the story will remain the same. Like the mission with Biggs, Wedge and Jessie, that's not a change, it's an addition. You guys are claiming that it's a sequel to advent children and that ANYTHING can happen now. This is beyond ridiculous. Keep talking about willful ignorance dude. What you're seeing at the beginning of Rebirth is the wrong timeline with Zack, we already know that. It's new content for us + tease and confusion for new players. Btw, the addition of a wrong timeline is not a change, it's an addition. It doesn't affect major events of the game, or it doesn't have to. There is not reason to, also confirmed by Kitase, we will go through the same events as the OG game. You really believe that Tifa, Aerith, Barret and Red XIII are dead and Cloud is a black cape vegetable in the main timeline? (Assuming there's only one as you seem to claim). You clearly misremember the OG like everyone making dumb fan theories. Do you also believe that they would market a game as a remake while it's a sequel? What would be the point. It only drives people away. Old fans think "They changed the story? I'm not playing this shit" and newcomers think "I have to play the OG and watch a movie before? Screw this". It's fans like you who are confusing people for absolutely no reason. You call it what it is, a theory, but you guys are framing it as the the truth without proof, but more importantly, with incredibly flawed logic. Even if it were true, it would ONLY make sense if you already know the story. The Remake NEEDS to make sense for new players too. They're not writing it exclusively for us. It's what most people forget when making these fan theories. It makes NO sense from storytelling OR marketing stand point. "Willful ignorance" lol, you're the one believing FAN theories that don't add up. Let me know how Cloud and Tifa will die, how Aerith will survive or how Zack is still alive while there are two buster sword. Tell me how the story can happen if they change any of that. Release me from my willful ignorance please you genius master of fan theories.
I feel like everyone is assuming the same story beats from OG, but with some alternate trickery that turns them "up to eleven" (hence everyone saying things like Cloud breaks EVEN MORE than the OG! Etc..) for what end, though? To get to the same effect only "EVEN MORE" as if the OG didn't do it in a satisfying way already.
Why not assume it's the same?
The biggest reason I don’t think it’ll be the same is because they’ve already undercut relying on the same beats. My “Why FF7 Remake is Spoiling Its Biggest Twist” video goes into more detail, but as an example, the truth about Cloud’s past doesn’t seem to be treated as the major mystery it was.
While they have done some things to signal Cloud is confused and unreliable, the release of Crisis Core and even behavior of Trooper Cloud in the Flashback Playable Demo tends to give that mystery away. I was watching a Remake-only streamer playing the demo yesterday and they noticed the very clear hint of the trooper reaching out to Cloud’s burning home saying “Mo-“ and wondered “is that actually Cloud?”
So if such a major mystery isn’t being played up as a mystery anymore, then it won’t really be quite the same experience. It seems they’re trying to have some different key mysteries while giving OG ones away at the very least.
@@SubTXT_ interesting. I don't disagree with much of this, but it does seem to contradict their wish for new players to experience this world through remake, since it now seems that OG knowledge will be required to even understand what's happening
@@ThatBillmanGuy I don't know if OG knowledge is required. I just think that the "holy crap!" moment for us won't be a "holy crap!" moment for new players. They'll probably go through a similar journey of learning the truth about Cloud over time, but it won't be as surprising. But there will be something new that will be a surprise to all of us (most likely, what's going on with Zack and Sephiroth's trailer dialogue about "worlds merging").
@@SubTXT_ well, whatever happens, I'm hopeful it'll be satisfying either way.
Oops! I somehow watched every video on this channel and, I don't even have a PS5! 😅
Haha, I hope you enjoyed!
Deleted my comment sorry, but saw you replied. I'm not saying a heavy redemption arc, but simply understanding him in a way more coherent to the whole Compilation instead of only the Nibelheim madman that Cloud sees. Ever Crisis is having a teenage Sephiroth for a reason, and no its not only for gacha marketing (check out the scenes).
I know it may be a simple excuse... The reason they released the updated crisis core is because new players don't know that Zack is supposed to be dead. I've seen a few people play never (not should they) think that the actions they did in the endgame can permutate into the past. A big "whoopsie" the writers forgot to deal with in the Remake
Yeah as I mentioned in this video and explored more deeply in my last video, “Why FF7R is SPOILING Its Biggest Twist” - they are trying to get old and new players on the same page re: Zack and Cloud.
I don’t think it was a whoopsie at all though. I think they definitely did it on purpose.
Hmmm... I dunno. The writers said something to effect that ... They didn't change the story because that happened and can't be changed. Therefore new players to FF7 need to either read a wiki about Zack or play CCR. So... even right now players who haven't played Reunion will have NO IDEA what what your talking about. They HAVE TO PLAY Reunion or read a wiki, right?
@@ekoms108 I hear you. I still think the way they’ve messed with things is intentional, but it’s classic Square Enix to make the release of the games and their info as confusing as humanly possible 😂
@@SubTXT_ I appreciate the responses. I think we've chatted before on twitch. I have the same tag there on twitch. Anyway Ive planted my flag on the Lifestream Zack theory. I think there has to be a battle with Lifestream Jenova to alter the events in Advent Children & Dirge from happening in the first place. Defeating Lifestream Jenova, aka Lifestream black, aka Geostigma is the only way I see to do it.
@@ekoms108 good to see you. I definitely think something has to go down in the Lifestream and that Jenova needs to be removed from it for them to have a final, conclusive ending to the Compilation. All signs point to that being the dev’s end goal. Totally agree there. The only part I’m uncertain about is if Zack as we’ve seen him in Remake (surviving/church scene) is in the Lifestream in those moments.
Something that hasn't been mentioned is with Tifa's outfit you'd expect to see a scar, I'd like if Speritoth mentioned that
It's "explained' in the book Traces of Two Pasts that was recently released. And by "explained," I mean, they kind of yadda-yadda'd over it. The doctor that did her surgery used some new, advanced, and very expensive technique to stitch her up without any scar... which also leaves her in massive debt. Working to pay off that medical debt is the main driver of the Tifa story in the book.
@@SubTXT_ .........thank you but that book is literally sitting on my dresser waiting to be read 😂
Figured I'd do a playthrough of Remake or watch the cutscenes again before Rebirth
Although the point does still stand unless she tells him
@@hcook1023 haha, my bad. it's not a major spoiler, at least. It's like maybe one page of her whole section so don't worry ;)
It could be tifa reconstructing Cloud’s psyche after falling into the life stream at the end of disc 2. It will probably just go all metal gear solid anyway. Should have just remade it with updated anime gasps…
So I have seen that you do subscribe to the interviews that the story won't diverge THAT much from the original (we'll get retellings of the original's main arcs.)
Something no one that follows this theory has been able to answer me is how this would be IMPOSSIBLE in this version of the single timeline theory.
No one knows Cloud and the rest of the party is presumed dead by Shinra and most civilians. Even though we don't see much of it, that scene with Rude and Elena already seems to contradict this.
But even if that is a red herring (like he questions who Cloud is before casually introducing Elena like he's fine with everyone just... being there,) how could all the other story arcs possibly play out? Rufus, the Turks, and Hojo never saw our Cloud in Midgar. This already breaks the story in a massive way.
Minor characters like Roche, Johnny and Corneo never saw Cloud... why even add Roche?
If this is a single timeline, specifically the Terrier timeline, the story CANNOT even remotely follow the original. Everything has to be completely different even as far back as the Mythril Mines, or are we supposed to have everyone awkwardly stand around in a circle while every single character we met has to talk about how they don't know who Cloud is?
I don’t watch or listen to Maximillion. But very nice video 👍
I only care that the plot’s beats remain the same. If the Rhythm between them differs fine. It’s the big plot points I am worried about. But I did something that means I have to buy this. I made a gamble that SE stocks would go up with XVI… oops. This game is my second shot at profit. So it better be good.
10:04 see, one thing about Sephiroth is that, YEAH he loves to gas light cloud.....but since in remake he's been kind of gas lighting him....with the truth? He's not telling him everything obviously but he's obviously taunting Cloud with stuff he seemingly know from the OG timeline......and it seems more advantageous to 'break Cloud' with the truth then just lies.......so what if something is going on? What if Sephiroth has done SOMETHING to Tifa as a ultimate set up to 'break' cloud all over again like he did originally?
Not fully related, but my favorite example of Sephiroth showing clear knowledge of the OG and using the truth against Cloud is Sephiroth saying in Chapter 2 before Cloud meets Aerith: “You can’t save anybody (touches Aerith, who Cloud couldn’t save), not even yourself (referencing the Lifestream sequence when he needs Tifa’s help)”
Subtxt what do you think of the idea that Aerith is dead? I don't mean that she is a ghost. She won't be killed and won't live other because she IS dead and we are playing a flashback in Cloud's mind via the lifestream, Mako etc
I would think that something has changed, for the crew that we dont know of yet, and it effects the end result of the game. And now the memories are back -filling in Cloud's mind because If you change the future you have to change the past.
I wonder if in the later 3rd game that Aerith is somehow finding a way to get the crew to resurrect her. We saw in the Shinra video that a Cetra person can move and bend the lifestream and make materia this way.... from the lifestream to physical reality.
They made all of us see the video in the Shinra tower to make it clear that the Cetra can do this.
Do you remember the night scene outside of Aerith's house when she said "you cant fall in love with me because its not real". Is she implying they are not living in physical realty as she knows she in Cloud's head?
Anyways just curious about your thoughts on this.
If I'm understanding correctly, you're proposing that Aerith is dead and this reality is somehow her changing things from the Lifestream.
I don't think so. No 100% at least. I do think that her "memories from the future" (aka OG Aerith) are in the Lifestream and interacting with the current party in the current point in the timeline. It's clear that the Aerith we're speaking to is informed by something and it seems that thing is NOT the Whispers. She knows what the Whispers are, but says that they are trying to remove parts of her that cause her to forget things.
I think, however, that she has had contact with herself (OG Aerith) from the Lifestream. Some support points:
1) In the Chapter 17 scene where she's explaining everything, she says "'Follow them, the yellow flowers'" and that phrase uses "quotes" in the subtitles as if she's quoting someone speaking to her. The game then cuts to a POV shot facing Aerith as yellow flower pedals fall. Whose POV is that? IMO, that's our version of Aerith looking at a Lifestream manifestation of Aerith.
2) In the Chapter 14 Aerith flower garden scene, she is surrounded by green Lifestream bubbles when she starts to disappear. In the Ultimania (a separate guide book where the developers provide extra information) there are translated versions of the full script. In the actual script, it says, "Aerith knows this isn't a mere dream. She uses the powers of the Cetra to allow her to come here to see Cloud, and this is not a dream..."
And here is the Q&A answer with FF7R's Co-Director Motomu Toriyama (who is also the main director of Rebirth btw. I have CAPITALIZED the most important part of the answer.):
Q: "What sort of meaning were you trying to convey to having Aerith speak the lines, "But listen... you can't let yourself fall in love with me. Even if it seems like you have, it's only your imagination."?
Answer (Co-Director Toriyama): Aerith herself is physically imprisoned inside the Shinra Building at this point in time. **THEREFORE, THE PERSON WHO SHOWS UP IN FRONT OF CLOUD IS AN AERITH WHO'S EXCEPTIONALLY CLOSE TO MEMORIES OF THE FUTURE, AND WHO APPEARS THERE AFTER SOME SORT OF CONSCIOUSNESS ACTS UPON THE LIFESTREAM.** She seems to be making a genuine plea, yet while these words are intended for Cloud, I think Aerith is partly speaking them for herself. The contents of her request may be at odds with how she truly feels inside."
TL;DR: I think OG Aerith's consciousness exists in the Lifestream and is accessing the current timeline in the same way that OG Sephiroth is influencing the current timeline. But I don't think it means that the reality we're playing is just some version of reality created by the Lifestream. It simply is reality itself.
@@SubTXT_ Those are some great points I hadn't considered. Especially about when she met Cloud in the Garden and lifestream self from the OG talking to herself. I do wonder if they have though of all the possibilities that we would come up with and then try to do something different from how they know us the audience would interpret them. I do think there will be a twist of some sorts in part 2 and in the end of part 3.
But why is it called the "single timeline theory" when it's dependent on having two timelines? Timeline A as the OG and Timeline B as Remake trilogy?
I’m not sure what you mean. The Single Timeline theory means that there is no A or B. A (OG) has been overwritten by whatever is happening in Remake, just like Marty McFly’s reality was overwritten (remade) by his dad growing a backbone in high school that he never had in the version of reality that was overwritten.
why does everyone assume the 'her' means tifa? because she's shown on screen when he says it? why can't it be aerith or jenova or something?
I am so mad at myself for forgetting to include it, but there is a Japanese version of the trailer where Sephiroth is directly translated as saying “Tifa.”
@@SubTXT_ Thanks for that, interesting!
All this tells me is there might actually be more sequels to be made in this universe.
I think the deaths in Midgar are Shinra propaganda! Those were the 3 broadcasted on tv by the security cameras.
Somebody @kai the player 😂
No timelines ..... World's
Nooo!
What's up with the audio
I used new video editing software and audio mixing in it was a bit confusing. There is a new version with louder VO if that is the trouble you’re having. ruclips.net/video/NjL-TwFcC6o/видео.html
I think its not a timeline its just a false memory of cloud when he was thinking he was zack and he thought tifa died on that incident everything is mess up atm he doesnt know what real and not due too maco poisoning.
I feel the trailer is unreliable as to what the game is about
i really dont want it to be like a 20 hour game
it better be a 100+ hour game or else...
they do say it will be like 100 hours of content.
but devs always exaggerate a bit.
so it will probably be more like 60-70 hours if you want to grind chocobo races and stuff like that.
there will probably be shit ton of mini games in golden saucer.
who says aeris dies?
What if OG FF7 was all a Jenova vision? The millenia year old space alien who USED Sephiroth didn't fall so easily. Bizarro/Safer Sephiroth was Jenova and Jenova Synthesis was Sephiroth's body. That's why the Advent Children need Jenova's head to activate her memetic abilities to "transform" into the one thing that traumatizes Cloud. Sephiroth. Why not use a part of Sephiroth? Because Sephiroth is completely gone, but what could not be returned to the planet is Jenova cells. Thus like oil and water our memories (lifestream white) and Jenova's visions (lifestream black) we get clashing realities. "Sephiroth" is Jenova. Thats why he uses different "pronouns" in the Japanese script. The difference is a naive Sephiroth (boku), an aware Sephiroth (watashi), and it's actually Jenova (ore).
What do you mean "what did they do to the planet? WHat is happening?"
She's talking broadly, as in, grouping all humanity in with Shinra. That's basic just understanding how people talk imo.
I had heard people wondering if Aerith saying "even after everything we've done to it" was related to the portal at the end of Ch 18 because she warns at the end of the highway that going into the Singularity would "change more than fate itself." It may have just been my circles, but it stirred some people up thinking she was referring to how they may have changed the world/timeline. But no, it's just about the impact of mako extraction.
Great video, there's one thing that I feel seems to get overlooked a lot that pushes people to time travel as the main mechanic of remake.
The Singularity is the lifestream, you talk about the devs lieing to cover truths, I think every bit of nomenclature around the whispers is a lie, both by the characters and the games lore, why? Well when we beat the whisper harbinger what happens?
We see a blinding white light, then find our characters stood on water, surrounded by wind that whisps exactly like the lifestream and green particles of lifestream.
Then we go back to fighting Sephiroth in a broken midgar, but we don't ever change our location, that scene to me is to specifically show us that we are in the lifestream at that moment.
Then we have the edge of creation, it mimics the ogs ending because it literally is that, we are in Clouds consciousness and the 2 nebulas we see, the universe of life and the universe of death are simply Clouds connection to both the lifestream and the negative lifestream.
I've got a whole theory word doc'd on it if you want to read it, but for me Remake isn't time travel, it's the planets memories being remade so Sephiroth can take over the planet from within the lifestream.
And I think one piece of proof that no one seems to even question is Red XIII, why when we meet Red is he only presented as a Feral animal until Aerith does lifestream mind memory magic on him? It's not like he acts antognistic until he realises we aren't a threat, no he acts completely wild until Aerith mind magics him.
So what if that isn't Red, but rather a subjective memory of him in the planet's memories based on the memory of the scientists who worked under Hojo, because Red isn't dead his existence in the lifestreams memories is solely based on others outside perspectives, and so until Aerith connects this memory to his real consciousness he's simply just a wild animal because that's how the scientists saw him.
But yeah that's where my head is at, granted if I'm in anyway correct it won't be confirmed until the end of the 3rd game when they'd Zanarkand the fuck out of us, so I'm gonna be wrong for a long time.
And I think that might be my biggest issue with the single timeline concept, what's your Zanarkand moment? What's your the Sorceress is actually in the future moment? What's your I was never actually in SOLDIER moment?
I just don't see how you achieve anything like that with a single remade timeline, because one look at Terrier stamp with our party in it will give it away no problem.
I think it will be a blend of our POVs. I just struggle with Zack and/or the party being in the Lifestream because there is no conceptualization of the Lifestream in a way that mimics reality. Maybe Sephiroth has cracked that code, but I don't know.
THAT SAID, I was indeed thinking about many of the things you bring up -- especially in terms of Aerith wielding some Lifestream powers. I even think there is some legitimacy to the Singularity being some created space with in the Lifestream.
Aerith throwing white light at the Singularity portal has bothered me of a while. Then, when re-reading Lifestream White and Black for this video, it made me wonder: "Is that what we saw on the Highway? Sephiroth summoning 'Lifestream Black' and Aerith countering it with 'Lifestream White?'"
But then my brain started malfunctioning and didn't know exactly where to take that. Long story short, I think the party + Zack will be in the same timeline in Rebirth -- whether it's a single Remade timeline of reality or an elaborate hoax universe made by Sephiroth in the Lifestream to mess with everything even worse than the OG.
@@SubTXT_ Yeah my thinking was what Sephiroth wanted from the whispers was the crack to that code. You know how some souls refuse to join the lifestream because they can't come to peace with their death, and some of these are used to form the negative lifestream?
Well my theory is that Sephiroth in the final moments of the whispers used their powers to mess with memory (as we see with Aerith having memories taken away by the whispers) to inject this fake memory into Zacks soul as he enters the lifestream, making him unable to join and instead believe he is still alive but in a world where Aerith and Tifa die and Cloud joins the reunion.
The idea is to have Zack in the lifestream be manipulated by Sephiroth into destroying Minerva removing the outlet of the Planets will, but unbeknownst to Zack Minerva is effectively Aerith in the lifestream at this point, and Sephiroth will use Zack as a weapon against her to remove his biggest obstacle in taking control of the planet.
I think having Zack force Aeriths soul to join the lifestreams flow removing her ability to aid the party and the planet against Sephiroth would make for a great place to take his character, he's been built up as the hero, now we'll manipulate him to use his heroic self sacrificial nature against him in a bit to recreate the world where Aerith lives.
I also think the specifics of the singularity are it's the gateway between the negative lifestream and the lifestream, and that the people we see in the church with Zack will be consistent throughout his world as souls who are unable to join the lifestream and are instead feeding the negative lifestream. They can be used as a good source of mystery in that way.
@@SuperSloth it’s in interesting concept for sure. It can get pretty unwieldy and overly convoluted really quickly, but I don’t think it’ll be presented that way even if it’s what is happening on a pseudo-scientific level.
So far, the devs have communicated their convoluted concepts much more elegantly than outright saying things like “negative Lifestream” and other jargon that can quickly sound like “midichlorians,” so I’m hopeful that any version of that theory is presented in a much more consumable way. That said, the general idea of using Zack’s nature against himself is pretty 🔥 whether alive in a real timeline or dead. I have been starting the early drafts of a video all about Zack’s journey not being a happy one that your thoughts line up with.
@@SubTXT_ yeah that's why my theory leans towards it being 2 timelines until they pull the rug from under our feet and say well actually its the lifestream and the memories of the Planet, in a similar vein to how Zanarkand is presented in X, not everyone will completely grasp the full implications but they will get enough to understand the stakes and pay off their emotional investment, but with a deeper level there for those who seek it.
In regards to Zack I really do think tearing him down is the only thing that makes sense in terms of giving him an arc, I don't see how Zack 2.0 now even heroier works.
I don't know if you've ever seen Vinland Saga but I'm imagining an arc like that, Thorfin is a character whose entirely personality is built around the single concept of revenge (like Zack is with being a hero) and once that concept is forcefully removed from him, he becomes a shell of a human being with zero meaning to his life, and then gets built back up to being someone completely different with complete different ideals who still has to face the errors of his past life.
I'm thinking with Zack if you have him do something that puts the very fate of the planet at risk, remove him ever being able to call himself a hero from the equation, what would he become as a character if you built him back up from that, I just think there's something really interesting that can be explored there.
@@SuperSloth haven’t seen Vinland Saga yet but have heard amazing things… so I also had to skip ahead a bit when reading your comment JUST in case, but I agree mostly about the narrative movements you’re talking about. Whether it’s one timeline, two, or infinite, I don’t think it’ll functionally matter.
But it is hard to make specific plot predictions as I did in Part 3 of this video unless you root it in one of the theories, and so far I’ve been leaning into all characters effectively occupying the same space and time (whether they realize it or not… which would be an intended twist).
I think you give square enix too much credit thinking that they will tell a deep interesting story with big brain twists. Has Nomura ever created an interesting story? No it’s always been anime esque disney feel good pre teen targeted games. The story will be very simple and if anything it will be less violent and emotional. The goal is to keep everyone alive to preserve the brand of the characters. Scifi, mystery, horror is not what they are interested in. They are trying to reestablish a brand that can last for a while. They aren’t trying to tell a closed loop quality story. So your favorite characters will stay alive trust me. Zack is brand power they need him in their version of Avengers. It will be very kid friendly aimed at teens and pre teens with silly over the top anime characters very small brain stuff. I am surprised people still don’t get it after remake. This is at best, a high end fan fiction. Trust me don’t get your hopes up they would never take the risk in telling a story with too much deeper meaning because it could be controversial or offensive. It’s going to be as safe and simple as possible they would not take the risk. I also think the news is just the characters faking their deaths in corel mines in order to escape their captors from the golden saucer probably set up by the bounty hunter girl. Only because it seems like the most basic idea and easily digestible by their target audience.
Single timeline does not explain scamp changing, also what you're describing in back to the Future is not the same. They went back to the past and that changed the future, in ff7 they don't travel to the past, they just go into the singularity so they couldn't have changed the timeline from the past like in back to the Future.
Give me a reason why their actions would change scamp and I'll accept single timeline but to me it's obviously 2
Also, single timeline doesn't make sense if the characters die. Single timeline doesn't make copies of yourself, the original would still have to go through the time jump to begin with, and if the party dies in the bridge then they die on the bridge, they couldn't still be there if it was just one. Single timeline doesn't make sense it has to be an alternate timeline and the version of themselves in that timeline dies
For example if Marty went back to the future right before he left for the past the first time and then killed that version of him, he himself would then cease to exist and it would create a paradox. That's why single timeline can't work if the party is dead, that just blatantly screams alternate timeline not timeline remade. They would be the only versions of themselves in a remade timeline
It's a real challenge to answer definitely, which is why I think there are so many theories. Some thoughts to your questions.
Yes, it is not time travel in the traditional sense, but that's the only traditional reference point for this story. Sleepezi has gone into exhaustive detail on his channel about how the fabric of reality in FF7 is woven after deep dives into the lore. It's so complex that his videos often run for hours on end, so it's hard to tackle here, but here's my best summary:
Reality is created out of memories and consciousness. Kind of a weird way to think of it, but there's enough precedence. That's what the Lifestream consists of and why Lifestream Black (referenced in this video) is about Sephiroth's consciousness in the Lifestream. When people say that Remake has "AC Sephiroth" going about it, it's because his consciousness is enacting itself on reality whenever he wants.
Some proof:
- In Chapter 2 before you meet Aerith, Sephiroth shows up, touches Aerith on the shoulder and says, "You can't save anyone. Not even yourself." I believe that shows Sephiroth understanding a "future memory" about Aerith's Death and Tifa needing to save Cloud's mind while in the Lifestream.
- In the OG game, Sephiroth says at the Temple of the Ancients: “I am far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients. I also gained the knowledge and wisdom of those after the extinction of the Ancients. And soon, I will create the future.”
The "traveler of the Lifestream" reads to me as a fluidity of knowledge throughout time. Could also just be gaining knowledge from deceased consciousnesses/memories in the Lifestream without any time hijinks, but Remake makes it seem like consciousnesses in the Lifestream can move through time.
- In the Chapter 14 resolution scene with Aerith, she seems to want to warn Cloud about his feelings with the line about "You can't fall in love with me." She also hints as her fate with the line "Everyone dies eventually," while doing the prayer pose she did in the Ancient city.
The Co-Director Motomu Toriyama of Remake said in an interview featured in one of the Ultimania books, about Aerith in that scene, "The person who shows up in front of Cloud is an Aerith who's exceptionally close to memories of the future, and who appears there after some sort of consciousness acts upon the Lifestream."
My interpretation of that quote is that it's OG Aerith's consciousness.
I know I wrote a lot there, but that's just to clarify the form of time travel that I do think is occurring in Remake.
As for the timelines, I do not think there is actual physical time travel happening there. In the final confrontation between Cloud and Sephiroth at the end of Remake, there are two depictions of universes on either side. One is in red and the other is white. I read one interpretation of that as the death of the old Beagle timeline and the birth of the new Terrier timeline. So it's not that time travel has changed per se, but that the fabric of reality has changed completely. That's why even small details like the Stamp bag are different. Whoever designed it in that timeline opted to design it differently (canonically, Palmer made the Beagle version we know). It's also how "copies" of the characters exist. When the new timeline was created, so too were they. Our party from the Beagle timeline was preserved in the Singularity and dropped back into the new Terrier timeline.
As you can see, it's a lot easier to reference Back to the Future and "Delorean = Singularity" comparison to convey the idea.
That said, I could be wrong. I have no damn idea. One logical challenge I face with the multiple timeline theory is this though: if there were multiple timelines, why would the Whispers be so focused on preserving only one of them? And why would Sephiroth be so focused on undoing fate if there were multiple potential fates anyway? There is almost a lack of consequence to the multiple timeline approach. Who cares if the party wins or loses in any one timeline if there are there other potential timelines/realities too?
@@SubTXT_ killing the whispers is what causes the multiple timelines though. None of the alternate universe stuff starts happening until you destroy the whispers. It could have very well been a single timeline before that
Just a comment.
Nomura has been tellin gwhite lies about his games for years now. people are just too dense to recognize or accept it
Thats so dumb if there 2 clouds. There messing the game up