Installing Aircraft Solid Rivets
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2011
- For hobbyists, students, aircraft buffs and professionals alike, the standard fastener used to construct airframes is the solid rivet. This 7-minute clip will show some of the easier methods to start learning how to install solid shank universal and countersunk head rivets.
the reason I like this is because it gives me a glimpse into my son's life. He passed away in January 2018 and I never really got to know what he did (exactly) or how he used the tools that I'm looking at - or what they were used for
If I may ask what did he do, sorry to hear of your loss.
I know I am quite off topic but do anybody know of a good website to stream new series online?
I’m restoring an old WW2 US airforce footlocker left here in Australia after WW2. This helped me a lot to restore the trunk as it uses old solid rivets
Thanks so much for this very thoroughly explained video. Students in A&P schools seem to have a lot of tech info thrown at them in class and then off to shop-sink or swim. Before you know it, the current training phase is over and onto something entirely different, whether you've absorbed it or not. Your presentation was orderly,calm, very professional, and easy to understand.
Riveting, couldn't take my eyes off it.
Hahahaha
A drill bit is usually good to take the eyes off
boooooooo!
Excellent video, thank you very much for posting it here on YT!
very informative! Thank you for this great video, it really cleared up the process for me.
Thank you for this video. I’m taking my O&P,s next month !
Thanks for your comments, Enwwn - you're quite right about the work hardening aspect, as well as the head & tail gaps. The reason that students are taught this method is to have them learn to drive rivets in a short time period - the "M" students only have a total of 12 days to learn many skills in the sheet metal trade, and management wanted them to gain confidence quickly. It's just a first step in a longer process.
Thanks, Roy - glad you liked it. (from Vancouver, Canada)
Nice work! Clean and concise
Still helping folks today. Thanks!
First rate video instruction! Thanks for posting!!
Roy Lewis Atlanta, Georgia USA
Thank you. Excellent instructional aid.
....thank YOU soooo much !!! for all this interessting informations !!! BIG COMPLIMENT !!! kinde regards from Switzerland !!!
Great video. Thank you for posting this sir
the quality is very good, couldn't this is 13 years old video
Very usefull !
Thanks for posting these !
thank you sir for this amazing video
I worked as a trailer mechanic when I was younger. Back then we used aluminum drive rivets for everything. All of the aluminum side panels, roofing, and frame rails were held together with them. The reason they use them is the speed of assembly and the strength of the rivets. These rivets have more pulling and holding strength than a nut and bolt. But, we were manually driving rivets about 30 times per minute. Pop rivets aren't even that fast. The only thing that sucks is being the bucker on the inside of the trailer. The noise of using a Chicago Pneumatic 717 air hammer was enough to rattle your teeth.
Excellent, well done, thank you!
....thank YOU soooo much !!! sooo good shown and explaind !!!! kinde rgards from Switzerland !!!
PRC is what we normally used on helicopters. Usually a B-2 product, which allowed two hours working time. Brands like FlameMaster were common, but I can't remember the exact part number. PR 890 was another product.
excellent video
I hope that you consider making more videos with layout, rivet pitch, and spacing. This would've been great for preparing for testing with a DME years ago. But again, great video!!!!!!
Thanks for sharing. Liked it.
Bucking bars (also called "Dolly's") are merely the block of steel against which the rivet is set, or bucked. The steel should be a high quality alloy, case hardened, with at least one smooth surface. The bucking bars can be home made, or purchased from a aviation tool supplier such as USATCO. Bucking bars can be any shape or size, and sometimes use alternate materials for heavier weight.
very good and helpful video thanks !!
thanks very much for the information.
I´m a plane builder, and this information is very usefull!!
Great video! Thanks.
Riveting is one of those jobs you need to have a feel for. This is gained by repetition. Good dia holes are essential. Selecting the right rivet gun is also essential these are given in X sizes a 3 x being the most common. Ensure you are at 90% to the job . This can be achieved by placing block and gun on the job at arms length and looking at the block and gun hold your position and move in for more control. You can also use the flat surface of the block if you have a equal space around your block your square. Setting up the trigger on the gun is important this can be done on a test piece. I like to us tungsten blocks. Blocks should be rested on the rivet tail with light pressure this will ensure you set the rivet with the first few strikes as you carry on forming the tail increase the pressure on the block. What your looking for is not the gun that bounces but the block as the gun transfer is energy through the rivet into the block. If your in difficult areas or just starting out just learn how to set the rivet this a few hits step back look at the rivet then finish off . I like to use a plastic bag on my universal heads as it protects them and gives a nice production finish. Finally if your wet assembly make sure you keep block and snaps clean as you can put rivets into sheer if you don’t.
Thank you!
Wild to see the Lockheed process from the 1940’s is still the standard for rivets installation
Great informative video ,
Excellent!
Thanks for video man
The rivet gauges seen around 1 minute 30 seconds into the clip are a home-made tool, but I imagine there are commercial versions available from USATCO.com or Brown's aircraft tools.
5/32 rivet hole is a #21 drill bit.i was a sheetmetal man in the air force back in the eighties.long time ago now.
Ooooo, Paul Dye is facing a bit of competition. 😂 Nice job y'all!
great video I was wondering if you have or can pit a video to make the rivet gauge
we have team work for riveting (normally 2 people). They work together by sound signals. for example when ready to do riveting, you will hear 1 click (bucking bar applied to the rivet)...
thank you!
Thanx! Very nice!
Sir thanks for informative video
Thank you for posting this video. I have searched for the spec that controls the installation of rivets and can not find it. I know that these rivets have been install pretty much the same for the past 70 years but I would think some kind of document has to exist.
For general aviation purposes, specs are found in AC 43.13, current version. This is a standard government document (a rather large manual) of many different subjects which apply across aviation repairs. Check the US gov't websites, or aviation book stores... AC43 is a common publication.
I noticed in a part that I am examining some red rivets on the wing, what are those? where can I get more information on that?
what is the failure rate of installation? e.g. for flush and universal rivets, including smiley damage from the universal rivets?
and also in closed spaces also in a kit plane
I’m an apprentice with zero experience in airframe or power plant. It’s all being thrown at me at once. Your video is a major help.
Thank,is very detail
There are rivet guns and air hammers. air Hammers don't work too well (little control). Ones that are most common is a 3x or 4x guns.
No, silicone is capable of corroding aluminum. PRC is a man-made rubber product, used for sealing surfaces against moistures, oils, greases, vapour, gasses, etc. PRC has been in the aircraft industry for decades. PRC is a 2-part polysulfide, which requires you to mix both parts before using.
Too bad I can only give thumbs up only once. This video is excellent.
im soory for asking many ? is this PRC seal is the same as expoci here in my country they may have it but under diferent name
Where can i get some of those go/no go gauges?
Couldn’t get hold of a bucking bar so I used a lump of
bucking rail instead
I still don't understand what the gun is doing and how rivets don't fall out if only one side is larger than the hole.
Hi Sandler23 - the rivet gun is providing repeated impacts onto the head of the solid fastener. The impact energy transmits down the length of the solid aluminum rivet, and when it meets the bucking bar held in the other hand, it will crush the rivet to form a solid tail. This tail expands to fill the hole completely, and then mushrooms out to form a tail which is larger than the original rivet diameter. Another result of this swelling to form a tail is that the sheets of aluminum become tightly secured together.
Hope that helps.
Where would one get that nice brass PSI regulator on your air hammer inlet? That looks like a great accessory.
The rivet gun has a regulator on the air inlet. It is a volume regulator, not a pressure regulator. Try Wainbee (Canada) for a supplier of the regulators. Or, in the USA, maybe Brown's aircraft tools, or Aircraft Spruce.
Where can I get air rivet hammer, bucking bar.. ? Ty
what is the best gun out there to use for a couple simple aluminum boat projects using 3/16 and 1/4 inch brazier head rivets?
Choose a gun with 4x capacity. For commercial projects, the brand name may not be so critical. Try a tool from USATCO.com, Aircraft Spruce, or maybe the Tool Store.
537VIK 4x with air controller.
Set up a c-squeeze. Eliminates a lot of mistakes from overshooting/ undershooting a rivet. Ergonomically better also
is there any videos of how to aply PRC in seams
thanks.,I wondered about how this was done but was worried about seeming illiterate to ask anyone.
We build cargo trucks using the same methods as aircrafts and I can tell you that if it took us that long to shoot a rivet, we'd never have a job. We shoot thousands and thousands a day on a solo job, let alone with 2 people.
You should make a video on how to do it the right way.
I'd like so much very good Video.
Pau
What do you call those little pin clamps they are using to hold two pieces together?
Those are called Clecos, or "skin pins." They come in the standard hole sizes of 3/32", 1/8", 5/32" and 3/16". Cleco's are a spring-loaded little device which holds the metal sheets together, but if you need more clamping force, then look for tools called Wedgelocks. Same sizes.
+Riveteer Thanks!
We used to call them Clickon when working on the Fantoms, we used the 1/8" mostly when installing replacement skin panels on the fuselage. The holes need to be drilled cleanly with a sharp drill bit otherwise the clickons wont seat.
sir i hope you again put a informative structure repair videos
soo is this PRC some tipe of silicone
I am working on a hobby project with military spec aluminum rivets, 1/8" diameter with 100 degree flush mount. I am running into an issue, I have a mushroom head and a 2 lb bucking bar held in hand not a vise, but I cannot set the rivet. It will not compress the rivet. Do I not have enough air power? Or is the zip gun not powerful enough for heat treated aluminum rivets? I am using my grandpa's old Chicago Pneumatics zip gun: CP711. Looking to fasten two 1/8" aluminum plates together. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
Several things to check: what is the alloy of the rivet you are attempting to install? Most 2017 alloy rivets have a single dimple in the center of the head. I'm not familiar with the CP711 model, but the images seem to show an air hammer, not a rivet gun. See if you can obtain a proper aircraft rivet gun, sized about 4x, and turn up adequate power for a 1/8" rivet. Your bucking bar should be case hardened. Last comment is that rivets which are extremely old get very hard, and you may need to use solid rivets recently manufactured.
Riveteer thank you for the response. The rivets are from McMaster-Carr pn: 96685A200 and it says they are military spec head treated aluminum with matte gold finish. I am not too familiar with air tools but it does say “zip gun” on it. I don’t know what the X rating of it is. I found online that it is “standard duty” and has 3,500 blows per minute. Do I need less blows per minute? I also don’t think my bucking bar is the problem. Thanks again.
Although I don't recognize the McMaster-Carr name, nor the part number, their website seems to indicate a fairly standard aviation countersunk head rivet. The tool called a "zip gun" still leads me to think you're attempting to drive a rivet with an air hammer. I suspect an air hammer will not work so well because it seems to have far too many blows per minute, which may dictate that it has a very small piston inside. Consider looking for an aviation rivet gun, such as those sold by online by Aircraft Spruce, The Yard Store, Brown's Aircraft tools, or other outlets. They will offer rivet guns which look similar to an air hammer, but the trigger feel and driving forces are significantly different. The "X" rating is a rough indicator of the amount of energy that the gun will impart to the rivet. 4X guns are stronger and heavier than 3X guns. Chicago Pneumatic tools used to make a rivet gun (I own one, myself), but mine is well over 30 years old. I don't know if they still make them.
Riveteer hummm. Yeah I bet you are right about the rivet gun. I actually tried my bucking bar in a vise and just used a regular hammer and I got it to work just fine. So I think I’m going to try to figure out a way to do it with a hammer for now. Thanks for your help!
I saw a bike frame that had many rivets for decoration and those were not pop rivets but they were this type that requiers a bucket bar to be used - and here comes my question. Is there a way riveting to be done without a bucket bar since there is no way of puttin any inside the tube of the bike frame. The rivets were the ones with "half spere head" don't know the exact name and still can't find out how did they do it. Riveting was done after the whole frame was completed because I saw photos while drilling the holes but no info on how it riveting was done.
Half Sphere Head? Maybe refers to universal head rivets. As far as installing into a tubular structure, it may be possible to get a long, round bucking bar down inside the bike tube. If the rivets are not structural, and only being used as decoration, then a full size tail may not be required. Or, perhaps there was the aviation style of blind rivets used, called "Cherry Max rivets." Special tools required for those. I don't think I've seen what you are talking about, sorry.
peshgeorgiev These could also be what are called drive screws. A hole slightly undersize is drilled and the drive screw is hammered in. The shank of the screw has helical serrations that grip the edge of the hole . They are not structural but commonly used to attach information plates to machinery.
pe.sho
Anybody remember exploding rivets? Set them off with a special tool, a small iron to apply heat to the head.
Please do an episode on removing, sizing, replacing, and sourcing aircraft blind rivets. My entire plane is done in blind rivets and they are all rusty and need to be replaced... but there are no videos out there about selecting aircraft blind rivets. Do I use Avex? Cherry? How do they look different from hardware store pop rivets? How do I measure their dimensions with a caliper when they have rusted up and expanded?
Unfortunately, I don't have the resources right now to produce videos on blind rivets, but it's a great idea and I'll try to get one done someday. If you are intent on using blind rivets for your aircraft, the most common brand is a Cherry Max fastener, but start by drilling out one of your rivets to find the diameter. Start small; use a 3/32" drill, then go up to a 1/8" drill if that doesn't remove the old rivet. If you can, use solid rivets for replacement - they are a better fastener.
Cherry max rivets are used when there is no access to solid rivets and comparable strength is required. To remove a Cherry max rivet, first use a centre punch and drive the steel core down a bit so that you can start a drill bit properly centered. Otherwise you risk skipping the drill bit all over the place. The manufactured heads don't change from one manufacturer to the next. Cherry max rivets have peculiar shank diameters. Universal head and full flushhead rivet diameters are as follows:
1/8" - #27
5/32" - #16
3/16: - #5
Reduced flush head rivets are same as solid rivets.
Can you upload some more videos for students to prepare oral and practical test?
👏👏👏
hi what can i use to seal
i dont get how you can use a bucker bar if you are working with a larger pices of sheet metal such as a kit plane
i did this for 2 years at hayes aircraft in birmingham.that's all we did pretty much until they laid us off 6 times in 2 years.but to learn real sheetmetal work you need to do shop work too.Which i did prior in the air force.but there's people who have done nothing but shoot rivets for 30 years and that's all they know.if you was to tell them to make a box in a shop they would be lost.
Hi, what is the head diameter of the rivet used on a Boeing 777, on the nose and cockpit frame ?
Thanks.
Head diameter depends on the diameter of the shank of the rivet. I don't know Boeing products at all. They have some proprietary fasteners, somewhat different from standard aircraft rivets.
VERY VERY PRO
İs there any one can explain me what is the bucking bar and how to use ?
I want a PDF of tools for installing aircraft parts
Is it possible to know what drill gun brand he's using?
It's an Ingersoll Rand, with an optional keyless chuck.
How do you put something on the inside if you cant get to it? Like if you are outside and you need to put that steel chunk on the inside?
I'm going to guess that the "steel chunk" refers to the bucking bar. If you can't get a bucking bar inside to set the tail of the rivet, you may wish to use a Cherry Max rivet, or perhaps a threaded fastener such as a HiLok or bolt or machine screw.
Ok. That is cool that you can fix airplanes.
@@Riveteer if one doesn't have access to the back how would one install a Hi-Loc, Bolt, or machine screw? Now if there is a Riv-nut installed on the base structure a machine screw would work. If high shear is needed in a blind area. Wouldn't one want to use a JoBolt or Huck? And yes blind area rivets, Cherry-max or Olympic loc fasteners. (Retired 45872/2A773 USAF)
Why not use the top of the metal vise, instead of the bucking bar? is it for the smoothness of the buckingbar?
Yes, if you look at the metal surface of a bench vise, often there are grooves or striations that will leave marks on the tails of rivets. Bucking bars have a much smoother surface, and are case hardened to prevent denting.
Riveteer I see. I suppose a smooth anvil would work for basic home/art stuff. I'm getting the equipment soon...it was either riveting or welding; but the fumes for welding in my little basement with 4" vent will be terrible idea. Thanks for a great video.
Your video assumes we all know what tools are required . Other than an Air hammer and bucking bar what tip are you supposed to use on the air hammer?
Alejandro - the main tool used to install solid rivets is a rivet gun, NOT an air hammer. Air hammers have no feathering trigger control... they are full on, full off. Nothing in between. A proper rivet gun will be able to gently tickle the rivet, or gain impact power through the entire range if that is what is needed. A simple air hammer is often used in other industries, but not in aviation. The rivet guns require special "snaps" which are sized to fit the head shape of the rivets being installed. Common sizes include 3/32", 1/8", 5/32", 3/16" and others. Another flat headed snap will be used for countersunk riveting. Coil springs are used to hold the snaps in place on the rivet gun so that you don't launch the snap out of the tool causing injury or damage inadvertently. Rivet gun kits including snaps, springs, bucking bars, and other common riveting tools can be found at the aircraft supply shops such as Aircraft Spruce, ATS, Browns Aircraft Supply, etc. Hope that helps.
@@Riveteer Yes.Thank you .
Is a bucker bar what we call in the UK a "reaction" bar?
I don't know the term Reaction bar. A bucking bar is merely a heavy case-hardened lump of steel against which we can form the tail (or "shop head") of the rivet.
Thanks i think it is the same thing, from Newton's Third Law of Motion
Is there a different in Rivets use in business-jet and small piston power aircraft?
It's possible. You would have to check the maintenance or structural manuals for the particular brand and model of aircraft.
@@Riveteer thank you.
Can someone pls tell me if this apply to solid steel rivet installation? Dia of rivet is around 0.250". Instruction is to use cold head upset. Was told I need a very high tonnage hydraulic press to do the job.
Aircraft sometimes use a monel steel rivet which can be driven cold with a standard rivet gun. If you are installing a 1/4" solid monel rivet, you probably need a 4x size rivet gun. I can't comment on the hydraulic press idea.
@@Riveteer Monel isn't a steel alloy. Monel is primarily nickel and copper.
I see at one point you mention that the rivet diameter should typically be three time the material thickness. Your illustration should reflect this, at least momentarily when you say as much.
+Allan Peda
I believe he indicated that the diameter should be 3X the thickness of the thickest layer. Then again...I only watched it once, and memory's not perfect
i have personally installed hundreds of thousands of these rivets
Do you or did you build semi trailers bc I can install rivets pretty quick from hanging door frames and back ends on trailers.
MIDDLE FINGER ON THE TRIGGER WHEN YOU RIVET
middle finger is used when drilling. never seen anyone use the middle finger when handling a rivet gun
I used middle finger in drilling and riveting...this allows the index finger as a "regulator" if you will
Agree, index finger for feeling & guiding. More tiring but precise.
bammass pointy finger to get your level, palm, arm and shoulder for percussion suppression, middle finger to squeeze the trigger. Unless it's a swan neck gun, only the thumb can press the trigger for riveting operations however the trigger can be pressed accidentally on anything.
With the bucking bar held in the vice you fail at riveting. This process left a gap between the two pieces of metal being riveted. It was quite obvious in the video. Use Clecos on each side of the rivet being shot to hold the metal sheets together. Riveting is a skill you learn over time by doing it over and over.
2117 rivets. Do they need heating before driving?
No, Drive them as they come out of the bag. No heat treating required.
Riveteer thanks! Trying to re rivet a boat. Was told that these were too hard to drive without being heated.
@@kansascityshuffle8526 Aluminum rivets are never driven hot like steel rivets are. There are some alloys which have to be heat treated, but none are driven while hot
@@andrewalexander9492 thx
Just set the skin up on a drivematic. Quicker yet.
Rivet kits
I'd love to know what we're looking at at 0:20 and again at 5:57. There's more rivet than airplane.
The aircraft skins seen in those locations in the video are mockups of aircraft repairs and modifications mounted on a portable shop module. The students are not permitted to perform repairs on actual airframes out in the hangar until they demonstrate knowledge of proper techniques, tool usage, and standard practices.
Good afternoon Riveteer, The fella giving this presentation, Is there a contact to speak to him? Even their Web Site has no contact info. please let me know if there's some form of contact besides on here.... thank you
You're welcome to post the comments or questions here. Is there something I can help with?
I needed some expert opinions on drive rivets relating to business,
If you post your email address we can contact you.
Riveteer Where can I buy in Vietnam
giandon20vn@gmail.com
i have never bucked a rivet with the bucking bar in the vice lol, you will never buck a rivet like this unless you are practicing on a small scale. 80% of the time you will need 2 people to install rivets on an aircraft
why are my aircraft rivets rusting?
do I need to replace every rivet on my 35 year old plane? they are all rusting and it looks like all of them are blind rivets and rusting on both sides... and no bucking bar was ever used
+An Anna id say riveting as a technology is a big fail :-/ if I'm going to have to redo every single rivet on my plane... that I didn't do... then yes. this is bs.
No 30 drill you mean :-)
Good video; however, I would rather that you didn't show a riveting procedure with the bucking bar secured in a vice. Best practice is as you illustrate later in the video with the materials secured in the vice and rivet gun set force transmitted through the rivet shank with the bucking bar rebounding to swell and upset the shank. This method properly work hardens the entire rivet to produce appropriate driven shear strength and produces fewer gaps beneath the rivet manufactured head.
pog