12 things I've learned after driving an electric car 9000km | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- Опубликовано: 1 фев 2021
- I’m about to clock over 9000km in the Hyundai Kona Electric EV. Here are the 12 things I’ve learned about using an electric car as my primary means of transport.
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1: RANGE & RECHARGING
I’ve learned not to worry about range or recharging - especially if you have off-street parking. It’s rare for me to drive more than 430 kays in a day, and that’s what the Kona EV delivers, fully charged. The onbord range estimation algorithm is dead accurate, too, so I know you can trust it.
I got a single-phase 32-amp charger installed. It’s weather-proof, and it’ll re-charge the Kona in about eight or nine hours - so even if you come home dead flat, you just sleep on it, and you’re fully charged again in the morning.
2: SILENT BUT DEADLY
I know some of you are thinking ‘7.6 seconds 0-100 is mediocre at best’. Yeah - it is - it’s middle of the road. But I don’t do that in traffic very often. Cuz I don’t want to immolate my licence.
You do, like, 0-40, 0-50, in traffic. That’s pretty common. And in that context, the Kona Electric is a weapon. To use one of my favourite things - a good ‘fart’ analogy. The Kona Electric is silent but deadly from 0-50.
Internal combustion is pretty compromised getting off the mark. It’s not something internal combustion does especially well. Just look at the engineering countermeasures in place to overcome this compromise.
The Kona just hooks up and goes - partly because electric motors make their peak torque at stall speed - like, zero rpm. So they’re already poised for peak performance just stopped at the lights. And partly because there’s a single-speed transmission, with no slip (such as from a clutch or a converter).
3: ECO TYRES
There’s no getting around this: Eco tyres are rubbish - from an owner’s point of view. Carmakers fit them because range is a big selling point and the low rolling resistance characteristics of eco tyres add a small amount of range in official tests.
Eco tyres are therefore great for the marketing department, but they’re lousy to drive on - especially in the wet. When I got the standard eco tyres changed over for a set of high performance Michelin Pilot Sport 4s, everything changed about that car’s dynamics.
The Kona just became a heap more composed - like, it’s less likely to lift the inside wheel and spin it if you nudge it hard out of a corner. It just hangs on better - especially in the wet. And it’s more predictable at the boundary of grip and slip - even though the threshold is higher.
On a stack of Superman comics (I’m an atheist - to me this is the same as a stack of Bibles) I can swear I didn’t think I’d enjoy driving an EV this much. That’s after changing the tyres.
FOUR: BOWSER BLUES?
I don’t miss re-fuelling. At all. I’ll never be nostalgic about that.
However, it’s a self-deluded fantasy to think that owning an EV means you’ve divorced hydrocarbons. That’s just you spending the big bucks to weaponize your confirmation bias. If you own an EV, you are just as dependent on hydrocarbons as some guy in a big, fat diesel 4X4.
If you took hydrocarbons from your life there would be no house to live in, no food in your nonexistent refrigerator, no clothes to wear, no pharmaceuticals, no steel to build the car from, and no roads to drive it on - among other things.
They’re called ‘facts’. You don’t have to like them.
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It's the internet, and someone is talking plain sense; wow, thank you for the miracle, mate.
John, wonderful video. I am a chemist by education and taught high school chemist and physics here in the U.S. I loved your example of the energy it takes to go from 0-50 vs. 0-100. I used the same example in my physics classes with respect to stopping distance. The (mostly boys) thought stopping was about their reaction time or leg strength. Nope. Stopping distance is proportional to the square of velocity. One interesting point I'd like to share. We calculated the energy required for an electric car to go, say 100 miles vs a ICE car, I used a 4 cylinder Camry. The electric car is actually 2.5 time as efficient, strictly from an energy calculation. I attribute that to the Carnot efficiency of heat engines. I appreciate your non political analysis of this topic. The world will need to put some good brains behind solving these issues instead of political banter. Thanks again. If I were still teaching I would show my science classes this video.
Not sure about the “vax”
Thanks John. I got a Kona, was commuting 50 miles a day in an Avalon, way more car than I needed for that purpose. I get FREE charging at the university I work at. I wanted less maintenance to do , plug in a drive. honestly I -hated-the Kona for the first oh 4 months or so, until I learned how to drive it and learned is particular odd habits and what not to do in it. I love it now, in the year I've had it its cost me 2 tire rotations - $44 bucks worth.
I got a combined $12K tax rebate here in California, that helped with the decision also.
EVs are not for everyone for sure, we kept the Avalon for long drives and its superb for that,but for a one car family its going to take strategy to drive,charging etc.
If you eyeing an EV of any brand just look at all the machine tech that missing, that will need maintenances ,eventually .
Finally,growing up I never had a car I could easily chirp the tires with , not so now, instant torque is addictive, makes traffic merging a lot less worrisome .
Just -be careful in the rain-
Man I absolutely love this guy and the curve balls he keeps throwing, even if I disagree on some points where he's just not up to date on the immediate future of battery tech.
Where is the link to your post which contains all the latest information on this topic ?
Would he agree with Sandy Munro?
A very well balanced presentation. It’s a pity there aren’t more like it.
An over confident presentation with a lack of insight, imo. I think he assumes the world is static until its not.
Driving in traffic, your vehicle isn't limiting your acceleration, it's the old man/lady in the camry four cars up.
There is also that.
Or it could be me in my 98 Corolla manual.
Hybrid Camry’s go like a shower of shit! Pends whose driving..
@@stendecstretcher4983 I do 180kph in my old Corolla manual every morning, So lets not blame the corolla. Its just you.
I'm an old man in a Camry, and I'm cheesed off with the tourists in rental cars who are terrified by NZ rural roads. They even brake at corners on steep hills!
Great content John. Was in Shenzhen in late 2019 and marvelled at how clean and quiet it was - no internal combustion motorbikes are allowed and lots of EV’s too - most taxis etc.
What a difference.
Hmmm so the Commies don't have any freight trucks???
Thank you for a truthful review of the drivability of an electric car. Yours is the first real review I've see, with out all the bull shit of the fan boys or the negativity of the gas crowd. Thank you, I might even try an electric car next time.
This might be the best current summary of where EV's are I've seen in some time.
Thank you.
If you haven't watched John's 4-part series on Tesla, give it a look also.
@@markh.6687 Let me guess: he bashes it?
@@Sekir80 Why, yes....yes he does!
@@markh.6687 I've seen one, the usual attitude. No surprises here.
Big picture snapshot underpinned with facts and a few laughs. Well Done, cheers again John.
Great video. I had to watch it twice because you covered so much information and because it was outstandingly fun. I have the good fortune to have a couple of electrical engineers in my social circle so I have shared it with them to enjoy. Many thanks!!
Thanks for watching, twice... Seriously, thanks.
Thank you for another fascinating report. Looking forward to another live stream; I really hope you intend on still making those :)
Great job - so nice to hear someone say it like it is. This guy is truly brilliant.
I remember back in the day when they said high definition movies contained way too much data to ever be stored on a single disc.😁
Technology NEVER stops moving FORWARD, including BATTERY technology!!
And you think you can tranpose that analogy to every single situation? Remember... men walked on moon 50 years ago and if we wanted to do it today it would take years.
On the contrary, it still stands that pure HD video has to much data to fit on a disk that's why they use algorithms to compress the amount of data to get something that looks like HD to fit on a disk. And be for you say what about 4K it too is compressed and the disk is layered with multi layers because pure 4K doesn't fit on a disk either.
@@TheVingadorT Only for the hardware, we already know it can be done, and how to do it.
@@TheVingadorT Yeah, about 3. If it was rich in Unobtanium, we'd be up there every week.
Good on ya John, always like listening to what you have to say and your supporting commentary, well worth while, even got my wife watching your vids now :)
Superb report! I'm digging those John! Thank you for your hard work, it is very much appreciated
Thank you Yoda. Your best video to date IMHO. Demonstrating great prime mincer material!
Saw a Mercedes EQC in the parking lot yesterday. Thought back to your video about it and I said to myself "That poor bastard".
Sympathy is the only empathetic response.
LOL I'm surprised Merc even sent some to Oz. They will kill off that model early.
but its actually a comfy car. but the price point is ludicrous
Another great and thorough presentation! Looking forward to your next one John!
Great analysis of the EV vs. Combustion engine vehicles, well thought out and to the point. Really enjoyed this...much to consider. The future is certainly going to be interesting. Cheers!
"These cars are not built for Australia not enough range"
- Friend who put 5,000km last year on his LandCruiser Prado driving around Melbourne.
I am sure he did not do the 5000km on one tank of fuel. Australia is where most people live in the cities. Most people never do 300 km plus in a day. Maybe the solution is to hire the ICE car for outback driving?
5000 a year? That would be nice.
I'm usually doing 15,000+ klm within 8 months.
I notice most ev owners today do very little driving anyway they could probably get away with not having the ev anyway.
@@zagan1 2020 isn't representative, but in 2019 I drove 45,000km in my EV (Hyundai). I don't live in Australia though.
Had my Kona EV for 18 mths, 31000kms, driven it from Brisbane to Townsville twice. Didn’t take any longer than driving an ICE vehicle.
Better tyres also make a big difference to road noise - I fitted Michelin cross climates and they are much quieter
I put Michelin cross climates on my accord, nice!
I use Michelin latitude cross too on a forester and boy aren't those things reliable. And quite quiet too.
I've been considering those for my Kona EV as well up here in Politistan. Glad to hear they're working well for you.
I have Kenda tyres on my diesel Citroen .... I am shocked how quiet they are ..... As for testing to the point of "grip to slip" ...I stopped doing that after I came off my motorbike in the 70s.
Do they stop well in wet and dry?
This was the best and most honest appraisal of EVs I've seen to date. Nice work.
We switched our farm from IC and corded tools to battery, I never hear,"where's the two stroke?" "Wheres's the extension cord?" "The brush cutter won't start" and those pull cords that always break. I look forward to the day of parking the tractor in the shed at night and plugging it in, one less job organising diesel deliveries, changing filters or getting a head gasket replaced on the truck at $2K
That's exactly the key though: Charging has to be convenient. If you can charge at home or at work, that's convenient. Right now... if you don't have that, owning an EV is super in-convenient. Moreover, it'd be great if charging could be coordinated with the grid, to help level out load spikes and troughs.
I "found you" a couple of weeks ago and have been hooked on your videos since. I find your interpretation and breakdown of issues extremely interesting, including a degree of humility very refreshing in this age of BS philosophy. Certainly enjoy your words of one syllable approach as well allowing me to keep up (probably not just me). Thank you
Great comment. So right.
Cobalt is used heavily to remove sulfure from gasoline, and not only in batteries. Also, some VE use LiFe batteries, and those do not have cobalt in them.
@@bluehelmet314 lithium ion batteries also get recycled, or just reused. How is the gasoline recycled?
@@0hypnotoad0 Catalysts get "poisoned" over time but typically the majority of the underlying material remains, ie Cobalt in this case, so the catalysts can be recycled.
@@bluehelmet314Agricultural biofuels (ethanol, biodiesel) have an EROI so poor that the amount of net energy they produce is nearly negligible, they are the single most inefficient way of harvesting solar energy, that's before an inefficient ICE engine wastes 75% of the energy content of the fuel itself. Biodiesel covers less than 10% of diesel demand, and consumes 40% of the US soybean oil yield, doesn't take a genius to see the imbalance there. Biofuels cause soil erosion, topsoil depletion, and vast deforestation. It's also utterly reliant on Ammonia-based fertilizer derived directly from crude oil. Biogas is a potentially useful biofuel, but the entire biogas potential wouldn't cover anywhere close to the current energy demand from ICE cars, and Biogas may already be fully occupied by the demand for household heating.
@@bluehelmet314 Your refutations are incorrect, or they do not serve to justify biofuel use.
- I mispoke. Natural gas is fossil fuel, it doesn't particularly matter if ammonia comes from NG or crude oil, they both have carbon emissions, and methane emissions in the case of NG. If Hydrogen is to become zero carbon it must be cracked from water with PEM electrolysis and renewable/nuclear power, and in that circumstance it would make far more sense to use electric vehicles instead of needlessly wasting energy and agricultural land, while producing NOx and particulate emissions.
- Outside of large scale marine propulsion, combustion engines do not manage anywhere near 40% efficiency. I'm afraid you've fallen prey to the *peak* efficiency bait and switch that car manufacturers like to use. They hook up an engine to a dyno, they run it under optimal load and run it at it's most efficient RPM to fudge those numbers. Car engines rarely run at peak efficiency, they are terribly inefficient under variable load conditions, and under acceleration. The average "round trip" efficiency of a new car engine is 20-30%. Even 40% efficiency implies wasting more than half of the energy, to me even that seems to qualify as still being "terrible efficiency."
- Palm oil is the single largest cause of deforestation in the global south. If you're trying to make an argument for EROI from Palm Oil, you may want to pick a different hill to die on.
I understand not everyone can afford a brand new EV right now. Transportation only accounts for 15% of GHG emissions so buying an EV is not exactly going to avert climate apocalypse anyways. I'm simply pointing out that EVs, specifically BEVs are the direction that automotive development should be headed in, they resolve many issues with air pollution-related diseases, and they make a substantial cut to the lifetime carbon footprint of vehicles. Not being able to buy an EV right now is not a reason to plug bad ideas like adopting agricultural biofuel.
You feel silly now?
I really like the way you think, and the way you explain -you're a natural teacher. thanks, subscribed, every strength to you!
I'm not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to cars, but I'm really glad I listened to what you had to say. By listening to you I've worked out that at this point in time it would not make sense for me to look at an EV. I need to be able to tow.
Loved this video John. Very well researched and your editorial is hilarious
I work in the field of battery public transport and you are spot on. I’m also a Chartered Engineer. Respect.
The other huge pile of BS is hydrogen. Production, storage and energy density - all crap.
Thanks Paul. (I'm a mechanical engineer by profession, but worked for years now as a journo.)
One thing that I find very strange is that there's so little investment in electric city public transport, or short range deliveries. They have an ideal utilization profile, and the savings would come in quickly due to the heavy usage
@@AutoExpertJC Pleasure. We do need to save the world by doing things like driving less (and I love driving!), stop eating meat, insulate our houses better, ditch air conditioning (don’t get me started on the history of that!), ditch gas boilers, get air source heat pumps etc. All of which we have known about for decades. But what do us Engineers know.
@@davidpereira9238 there is. It’s called electric trains and trams but, yes, they need to better. You are right too about the “last mile”. So we need to encourage more walking, cycling and electric scooters.
Brilliant video. Used to love reading your articles. Watching you on video is immeasurably better. Cheers
Wow, you are one clever car mechanic! Very interesting 30 minutes. Thank you for that intellectual spark.
Cobalt is used as a catalyst in refining operations. It helps remove sulfur (and maybe other impurities) from the hydrocarbon stream. ... It takes about 1 pound of cobalt to remove the sulfur from 80,000 gallons of petroleum products, like gasoline. A Tesla Model 3 uses about 10 pounds for its battery pack. Not sure where the break even point is but there yah go.
Not only that, but the cobalt in batteries can be recovered whereas the cobalt used in refineries is used up.
Agreed , Those pesky facts ..
A comprehensive and very reasoned look at the whole EV picture John, thank you. I'm especially glad that you included the current cobolt sourcing human rights issues - I know that manufacturers are aware (that their prospective customers are aware) of these issues and we shall await their extolling of their efforts during the current millenium. I agree that (for Australian conditions) a 2 car garage with a comfy I.C.E. tourer/tower & an electric town car may be the way to go but that town car would have to do a lot of commuting to get up to the current 100,000km threshold to make it an economic proposition. As the EV price margin reduces, that proposition may be more viable for the private purchaser but I won't hold my breath.
What are you going to do to help the kids in the DRC Russell?
Some EVs are now using LFP batteries, which don't use cobalt.
Awesome John . Thanks again for excellent knowledge imparted with a fantastic wit ( you’d make a great pommy)
Most enlightening essay,...... 'Oh my, the information I was not aware of.... or more to the point, cared to think about!
Thank you John.
I have been driving an EV for the last week or so. (I am doing some work on it to make it take newer batteries) and after a few days I really feel bad to have to go back and drive a petrol car. The EV is so smooth and quiet when you accelerate you do not have this noise in the front that makes you feel something is working really hard. It feels nice to floor it just because it feels so effortless.
I just don't want to drive a petrol car anymore.
I also found that 200km of range is probably good enough for most uses.
As for the batteries. This car is about 10 years old and the batteries need changing and now you can get batteries that are the same size and weigh as the originals with twice the capacity. So my guess is in 10 years we should have considerable better batteries than what we have now.
My son is a scientist. He did his thesis many years ago on renewables, fuel cells, graphene particle batteries, etc, etc. He loves EV's but says performance improvements in batteries is reaching its peak and will flat line in a few years. Fuel cells may be the answer but there's still several years of research and experimentation to be done.
Putting your foot down in a petrol car requires more effort than in an EV?
@@MrPropanePete "reaching its peak and will flat line in a few years" LOL that's delusional. Batteries are currently on borrowed technology from Consumer Electronic not meant for Cars. Purpose designed Cells for BEVs have not even been mass produced yet. Your comment was an illogical false rumour.
@@Cheepchipsable no but the petrol engine makes a lot of noise and makes you feel like it is working really hard. The EV makes no noise. There is no feeling of effort.
@@MrPropanePete the current chemistry probably won't go much further but with so many people spending money on battery research something is going to come up.
The main problem with current technology is graphite doesn't hold as many ions as other materials like silicon. The problem with silicon is that it expands too much so it cracks and the cells loose capacity very quickly. But if that problem was solved you could get 3 times the energy density of current chemistry. I am sure some one will come up with a solution or some other material that gets the same result.
the amount of knowledge this guy pours over you is just immense, loved it.
One of your best videos, straight to the point, well balanced and witty.
I like the facts nicely mixed in with the host's personal experiences about his Kona, with injected humor and the delivery setting, a garage. I also like his moderate approach rather than the, ban wagon, doom and gloom polarized approach. Good on ya, mate! You've got me interested in finding out more before I buy a EV.
Hi John,
We know all about batteries etc statement. Some learnings from history.
“Everything that can be invented has been invented.” Charles H. Duell was the Commissioner of US patent office on 1989
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." Thomas Watson, president of IBM.
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corporation. AT&T the market for mobile phones will not exceed 100 million.
etc.. so brave words. Who knows in near future we can look back on it and laugh.
As forchemistry
We have just hit 20,000km in out Kona EV. Aside from all the recalls, it has been a great drive. Very happy with it
I must congratulate you!
Very logical & analytically correct analysis not about EVs but just about how things work in the real world
That's how this great guy works. He calls a spade a spade and does not mince his words. His humour is classic, on a par with Monty Python and Father Ted. Oh how the truth hurts these toffee-nosed snobs that that control the biased media. Ever heard John Cadogan mentioned on the BBC (Brussels Broadcasting Corporation) or CNN (Clinton News Network)?
John, dare I say it...you are a breath of fresh air!
Keep it up for Straya and the rest of the planet!
Hey John, I’m fifty years into the climate change debate, for decades I was adamant that it was real as real could be. My father was an author of environmental books & literature, involved with the U.N & world watch institute. I began to feel Ill at ease during the late 1990s when I saw the corporate colonization of the UN, and the muzzling of former UN scientists such as Nils Axel Morner who outed them for changing sea level data to match their narrative. Continued research for much much more peer reviewed data supporting climate cycles, long documented and historically significant, such as the 90 year Gleissberg cycle, the 400 year solar cycle, and the 12,000 year orbital cycle that we now find ourselves enmeshed in all three at the same time. There’s a huge amount of money at stake, billions spent over decades promoting a narrative that is simply untrue, and unless you understand how completely they are able to suppress counter narratives, it’s hard to locate this information unless you can cite exact studies, authors and papers, but I have been compiling this data now for over twenty years and the UN IPCC is not a scientific body, it is a political organization.
It's the control that is important to these people .. money is merely one of those tools... good post and interesting to "hear"
It is strange how some people can have completely disparate beliefs in their head. This guy is completely paralyzed scared of AGW but is still a "car guy" makes no sense
Props to your Drone-ographer, JC. There's some stellar imagery right there.
@Evan Jones Change "accept" to "except" before John sees it.
@Evan Jones Frame rate accepted.
All B roll.
I guess them drones have "follow the stick(controller)" mode!
Spot on with your last comment. We’re keeping our BM oil burner and getting a Kona ( well ordering one with no clear delivery date just now) for shorter stuff. Another informative Vid, thanks.
here in Estonia we run all these fuels: Petrol,Diesel,LPG (liquid petrolium gas),CNG (compressed natural gas),Compressed methane from garbage dumps and also electric cars.
thanks, i do enjoy your "rants". it is appealing to listen to both sides of the argument, laced with a decent slathering of irony.
EV's have been around successfully for over 100 years, (trams, trains, buses), and the engineering and performance are well understood. The issue at the moment, (in my minuscule pinion) is personalized transportation systems where scooters and bikes are possibly the only 'green' option that make any sense. Lugging half a ton of batteries around in a vehicle that moves (on average) a 180lbs payload around is absurd.
Yes - on efficiency fundamentals it is quite poor.
MS agreed. I was thinking that exact thought about when you posted your comment while driving my 1.5 tonnes of Prius from one side of Sydney to the other. Why don't we have a decent metro system, then I'd take an e-scooter and do the final leg of the journey on that? But that would require a decent metro system and therein lies the problem....
I been watching your videos for long time. And agree / disagree with you 80/20 but this is your best video ever. You just hit the nail on the head. 3 issues. 1 chemical content of batteries, 2 range and speed of recharging , and source of the energy.
Another excellent video. Thanks so much for your down to earth attitude.
John you put this topic in context better then anyone , very much appreciated thank you.
I love hearing the truth John, the world is full of those with their heads in the clouds. Fan boy for John Cadogan..
yes, i wish more people knew the science behind this. keep up the good work
Will do. Thanks for watching.
good list of actual benefits and none of the wishful ones, nice work
Absolutely loving the dialogue, Bro.
It's called a monologue when only one lunatic is ranting.
The issue of cobalt is being addressed by the EV makers. LiFePo batteries (as being used in some Teslas) don't contain cobalt, and most EV battery makers are working to reduce the amount of cobalt in their batteries. This isn't due to concerns about child labour, but simply due to the cost factors. If anyone actually cared about the children in the DRC, they would be working to reduce the ongoing conflicts in the region and other causes of poverty, but all that most of the 'concerned' organisations produce are reports and funding requests.
Money is all that matters. No one cares where the resources come from or whether it pollutes, kills or whatever. "I can get the same thing cheaper at store X"... how often do you hear that in everyday life? Often, I'd bet. The Amazons, Walmarts and UPSes of the world built business empires on the principles of exploitation, and people are absolutely loving it.
could be why they catch fire
@@nickycrea6075 Your comment is a bit ambiguous, but the use of cobalt does increase the risk of thermal runaway, so the elimination of it will help reduce the risk of fire.
@@KeithBab Actually, the reverse is true. Cobalt reduces dendritic formation at the cathode. These dendrites (growths) can actually puncture the insulator membrane and short circuit to the anode. Your first comment on LFP batteries in relevant. Tesla has chosen to use LFP batteries only for the China market of the Tesla 3 model. Approximately half the range of traditional NMC type batteries and slower to charge, however around a quarter of the price which is what that market demands.
@@gavinbeer7135 But at the same time, cobalt's negative temperature coefficient of resistance can cause thermal runaway if it does overheat. LiFePo batteries are generally considered safer, but at the cost of a lower power density. Like all engineering, it's a matter of trade-offs.
You're a great communicator John. That's all I have to say. Cheers.
I'm liking the new addition to the drill press John, the ol flogging spanner 👍
Another logical and intelligent presentation. I always look forward to these. Thank you John.
John could have inserted a couple of ming-moles to keep it interesting.
@@DrFod I second your motion.
Great review, but the local hyundai dealers (Canada) are charging literally twice the cost for a full EV kona compared to an awd 1.6t Kona. $30000 more for a "green" car is not acceptable. Thats a whole lot of gas money. Not to mention the EV Kona feels cheap in comparison to the cost (Over $60000 dollars out the door).
Your point on polarized "sound-bites", is well thought, well stated, and truly meaningful.
Thank you, Buddy.
An excellent honest and fair overview/summary methinks.
One of your more balanced EV videos. I think it's important to give context when you talk about battery fires - they're not impossible but they are also less common than internal combustion engine fires and importantly, less explosive.
i liked this, very thought provoking.
On point as usual John. No one talks about these issues on any EV channel.
Nice piece... informative, factual and covering both sides of the ledger. I’m not anti EV and can understand why a city dweller would go down this path. I would get one for the boring daily commute as well if it suited my need. But being an open roader (for pleasure and work) in regional Qld where the infrastructure for EV’s is about 5-10yrs from being useful, plus having a passion for the noise and old school experience of driving a V8, it will be some time before I can justify the added expense of going down the “warm and fuzzy” path of adopting BEV technology.
I live in San Diego, CA and it's amazing how much where you live looks like where I live, Eucalyptus trees and brown grassy hills.
David Kaplan, Cycled through San Diego in 2018, if it wasn’t for the cars being on the right side of the road l would have sworn I was riding through Perth, Western Australia. (same latitude, sunshine, trees, water). Later discovered that San Diego is one of Perth's sister cities. Both great cities.
@@sturaison Yes, that's true. They have also found their way into a few African countries as well. I remember seeing a huge stand of Australian Eucalypts at Kuito in Angola many years ago
Eucalypts were originally taken from Australia to California around the time of the gold rush.
@@phillipleeds296 So I understand.
Funny thing about the Kona is that it is a fairly popular car in Norway, but the name in norwegian translates to "the wife" (regional dialects may vary). So it is not too uncommon to hear "the wife is surprisingly tight on the inside", "I waxed the wife yesterday", "the wife is very well behaved when driven hard"
In Portugal, the name "Kona" had to be changed to "Kawai" because "Kona" spells like "pussy" XD.
That's just gold
Less braking (through regen braking) also significantly reducing pm2.5, so if your ev or hybrid can do this, extra + for keeping city air clean
The only proper education I received are your videos keep up mate
Wow...this an amazing educational video that should be a public recommendation along with the impending COVID vaccine. Thanks John!
A very insightful and objective view on the subject. Thanks!
Excellent work John. Thank you from Ireland 🇮🇪
“How Dare You “ (GT) 🤞😎😂🇬🇧Blessings From Shitsville Northeast Alcatraz U.K. 🇬🇧❤️Love the Show John
By the time I can afford a used EV I won’t be able to afford the replacement battery pack 😕
Just don’t buy an early LEAF and you’ll be OK. I have a used EV that is going on 6 years old and has 90% of Original capacity.
Prices on batteries have come down a lot.
There will probably be third party products/rebuilders available also.
8 years and still going. Do you think about by a replacement engine as you collect your new car?
@@iangreenstreet1407 - many of us will NEVER be able to afford a new car. I suggest you read Scunner Darkly's comment again in that context. A 10 year old used EV won't be the viable option that a 10 year old internal combustion powered car is. Hence the comment regarding the replacement battery pack.
We have no clue how how much a replacement Battery will cost in 15 years. If you are a genius and can figure out the exact price, make some financial moves on that information.
Cobalt is also used in refining petrol to.
John is out of date, Mate. Tesla is already switching away from cobalt. Check it out at this link... ruclips.net/video/unijFgtLxog/видео.html
@Ray Johnson Cobalt is being minimized in EV battery production whereas it is necessary for refining fossil fuels. Check out the rant at the 4:50 mark of this video... ruclips.net/video/ysQ3VWpuwI0/видео.html
It's a catalyst and used over and over again.
@@johnfruh There's some shit talking involved. If cobalt would be 40% of a cost, they would not even bother to deal with it in 1st place.
There're buttload of Lithium technologies known for years. You can educate yourself here:
batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion
@@RealButcher WRONG, Catalyst still degrades especially in a heat process. Just because the reaction does not consume the catalyst does not mean the catalyst last a long time.
Thanks John you have cleared up many misconceptions around the balance between EV and ICE vehicles
Good job, interesting mix of dilema’s here John, as usual. You hit on a lot of topics most people would never consider, so cheers for that. I have a Prado & a Hilux (Diesel of course) & have been considering a EV of some sort in the next few years as you have said as a local runabout, and with a shed full of solar n batteries this could make some sense, but it will be hard to part with one of the other vehicles. I have acreage, so space/parking isn’t an issue and Deisel power is great if you need a workhorse, but I think this is a good time for me to start considering an EV as a runabout. Thanks for all this great info you put together in an informative and f**kn funny way. Cheers
I found your video very informative and enjoyed the way you constructed each of the 12 points - thank you! Made a very refreshing change to most videos posted on RUclips.
I like and agree with your summary, noting the change from using EV's to ICE vehicles is not and should not become a fight to the death. I think there will be a rise in the use of EV's but both will co-exist for many years to come.
Frankly, the argument will become irrelevant if the world doesn't wake up and address the real danger of climate change. As others have posted, the planet is likely to survive long after the human race has become extinct.
I feel you’ve left out maintenance and running costs when talking about cost comparisons...
At the very least, he admitted it's way cheaper to recharge than refuelling the ICE counterpart.
Nice follow up, I've often thought about the issues over the years, elect vs petrol, i think your right their will be two in the garage one of each for suburban folk. thoughts
Nice piece John.
Favourite line....."a binary morass of fractured epistemology"....how true
Brilliant analysis - I'm learning heaps.
That was one of the most rational things I've heard in a long time.
John, Ive owned a Kona EV since Aug 2018 and love it. I also own a V6 4x4 and a straight six turbo diesel boat. Horses for courses and each does their role brilliantly. My home charge rate it $0.11c per Kilowatt so a full charge is around $7.00. Annual service at the main stealer is $230.00 and thats it, thats all it costs to run. Don't even think about making me add up what the V6 or Straight 6 cost to service per year!!
I get that - but the EV did also cost you $25k up front, so it takes a while to 'save money'.
This is the most balance video I've ever seen and it will be used and shared for those fanatics that clearly need to learn facts rather than the fiction that is being spread.
Thank you for this. My biggest bugbear is ev's trumpeted as saving the planet. Not having children does way more for the environment than running a Holden V8!
A couple of points, There are cobalt free lithium batteries and some EVs are starting to transition to them, also there are new elements waiting to be discovered, since i left school the periodic table has got bigger by at least six elements. There will be incremental gains in battery tech deployed over the coming years. The statistics suggest your ICE car to be more of a fire risk than you EV.
Aces, John…fairly few comprehensive-but-approachable overviews like this out here.
Great review John. We seriously considered replacing our 11 year old outback with an EV. One big problem…our Canadian winter. It’s a battery range killer. The problem lies in heating the battery in the cold. Even when it’s plugged in it still takes the energy for preheat from the battery…not the power from the wall charger. We have snow tires on for six months of the year…today…April 24…snow on the ground. For that reason alone we went ICE. As much as I wanted to try the EV, Until battery tech improves…solid state batteries…I’m the ICE man.
Great research and review!
where is this 100,000 break even value coming from... citation needed.
also cobalt is used for the Desulphurisation procees in oil refining. currently larger use then batteries production.. this will flip in the future if cobalt is still to be used
100k isn't much when the battery will last 5-15 × that amount.
@@saff226 current tech ~1000 cycles. So table math.. 450,000kms range to about 80% . That saying the battery still could be used in storage. Ice engine would be a complete write off at 300k.
Current Panasonic cells in Tesla's are good for 1500 cycles and the CATL LFP batteries should be good for over 5000 cycles.
He just used one of the higher numbers various "studies" spit out for Germany. If an owner has solar, the environment break-even in Germany is about 30,000km (TU Berlin). If they're on coal or gas power plants, it's about 100,000km (TU Karlsruhe). The reality is somewhere in between for most, and it depends also a lot on how you drive and WHERE you drive. If you have lots of stop-and-go (very common in Germany), EVs will reach environment break even long before even the 30k number, as they are more or less "off" in a traffic jam whereas ICEs continue to pollute. I'd be guessing those studies would be true anywhere in the world.
Note, this does NOT take into account the higher cost of purchase, it's purely about environment, not economy. Economy depends a lot on how far you drive (e.g. per month). Economically, the break-even to offset the higher purchase price in Germany is closer to 200,000km (TU Karlsruhe). This is, however, strongly dependent on regional factors. I'm guessing that it might be different in the US.
Excellently done, I'm on the fence. As a mechanic, to me they'll still have wheel bearings, brake pads, tyres etc and the other thing is I'll have "Retired" or be dead by the time they take over. So the only thing not covered is ambient temperature. How much will battery charge be affected if you live in a cold or really cold climate? how do the heaters work? I presume they have heating elements in that use battery charge. I'm in the UK and some winters are reasonably mild like this one and others are seriously cold.
Well, I've sat on the fence, and just taken a delivery of a double-sandwiched piece of goodness. A lovely Tucson Ultimate (probably called a Highlander in Shitsville) 230 hybrid. Loads of power, great fuel economy and the smile on my face when the letters EV light up on the dashboard. I'm doing my bit for the planet.
John, I agree that the mindset of "I'm saving the planet by buying a car!" is blisteringly stupid, but you said so yourself that the break-even point is 100,000 km. Basically every car made these days breaches 100,000 km, the average mileage lifespan of the average car is currently northward of 200,000 km. The batteries in most EV's will last 200,000 to 500,000 km (depends on capacity and charging style) so in basically every "average" circumstance an EV will reduce carbon emissions, and it will certainly reduce particulate emissions and NOx. In the event that Nuclear and/or Renewable power becomes predominant, every EV gets converted to the "cleaner" energy with literally the push of a button. Buying an EV will obviously not "save the planet," but in almost all use cases it will confer a substantial reduction in carbon and other airborne emissions. As the worldwide fleet of vehicles ages, it is most prudent to *replace* those vehicles with EV's, or, not replace them at all; if that is an option on the table.
Ban the sale of new ICE vehicles
Don't forget the better resale value of an electric vehicle. Is wrong to calculate payback with out factoring resale value. The same mistake is often mande when calculating payback in diesels as well
@T Patterson nuclear power, solar power and wind power are the three safest forms of energy per kWh delivered. Per kWh delivered, coal, oil and natural gas kill hundreds or thousands of times more people.
While I accept his argument that it’s not immediate unicorns and rainbows for they climate by just buying an EV, I’d like to see the breakdown on CO2 emissions of comparable cars of ICE vs EV with current power production (coal-based) vs EV with renewable power production per km to see the difference
@@geoffreyschmidt even with coal plants, EVs are still lore efficient. It's stupid to install a mini oil power plant into each car, if you think about it.
If only that car didn't make me want to stab my eyes out with a pen when I look at it from any angle I would probably buy one.
Effin epistemology gets you everytime! At least twice this episode well done John!!
I you have a wonderful talent for telling us what can never be done in the future.