@@UnrealNode I mean, the Man Who Laughed literally inspired Joker, so I guess you’re correct. I was saying that Arkham Knight inspired the idea of Joker taking over Batman’s brain.
One thing i love about the Joker in Arkham Knight is as you go on through the story Joker starts to look healthier as he gets a stronger hold on Batman
Honestly I liked Joker being a mental challenge since it was a challenge Batman couldn't just go and punch it but he actually had to have a battle of the will to take down Joker
I love all the instances of Joker just popping up randomly throughout the city, we tease rocksteady that we got tired of joker being the main threat, but Arkham knight is his best work imo
Yeah I loved him in that game. I think that it just didn't go over well that the twist in Origins involved Joker. I love Joker in that game but sometimes I wish WBGM had found a different way to introduce him to that story so that it wasn't such a fatigue-causer with a lot of people leading into AK.
He shoulf have quickly said like oh wait scarecrow im the joker and people would remember him because he said that so he wouldnt be scared of being forgotten so batman couldnt do that
The Arkham-games take on Joker is my favourite (and a big reason is Mark Hamill), so having that absolute menace in my ear during most of the game was superfun. I love how despite being a very messed up psychopath capable of vile deeds of destruction, he can still be really funny and silly. Like back in Arkham Asylum when he strangles a guard while yelling "Hurry doc, we're loosing him!", then he proceeds to kill the doctor and dance over his corpse giggling like a child. He is a monster, but a very entertaining one at that.
That's why Joker is Batman's arch-villain. He is absolute menace with 0 regards to anything. If you try to break Joker, he will break your mind instead. (literally and figuratively)
I loved the ending. Batman locking Joker’s memory away forever. He tried rehabilitating him, he tried saving him, all while he killed innocence and loved one. But finally the rabid dog was put down, and Bruce doesn’t need to bare the burden of his existence anymore.
Joker foreshadowing to Batman who the Arkham Knight might be is like the shadow side of Bruce's psyche subconscious recognizing he probably knew who the Arkham Knight was the entire time but couldn't admit it to himself. Also, note how as the trilogy goes on Joker goes from being a physical threat to a mental one. The Asylum is small, but this is his domain, and Batman is smaller physically in comparison to Titan Joker. Then as the setting gets bigger, Joker's threat becomes more mental, but Batman physically gets stronger. It's almost likes hes a tumour.
It was the real joker lol, not batmans subconscious, i think joker knew the whole time thats why he kept showing batman those torture moments in his head because he talked to jason during arkham city while clayface fought batman according to comics, thats why joker knew and also ig batman probably should have known
It was not. Joker is dead, he is not a ghost, Batman just knows Joker so well that when he recreates him in his head, he does so perfectly.@@THEMUSCLEEXPERIENCE
One thing that always confused me as far as criticism for knight what that it was too obvious Jason was the Arkham Knight. In my eyes, it was supposed to be obvious, but Bruce just didn't want to accept that his greatest failure had come back to haunt him (very much in a parallel to the original under the red hood storyline).
@@lindaunderling4637before arkham knight they made comics showing jason todd stalking batman in city, he watched him fight clayface and talked to sick joker during city while batman was under the rocks which makes it crazy to think when ur playing the gsme ur being watched by jason todd, and in asylum remastered theres a spot in the map where jason was killed, evidence via the recording joker sent us in arkham vr
@@godzillazfrictionbut it's so accurate to what Joker actually was because Batman fought him a lot of times that we can basically consider it the exact copy of Joker's consciousness.
I don't mind how little they focused on Scarecrow, because I think that him turning into the Gotham Boogeyman in this game worked because he came back with a vengeance after Asylum
Pre-launch, I was firmly in the camp of not wanting Joker in the game, especially after Origins already pulled a "surprise, he's the main villain again!". That said, writing wins out in the end, and Knight has some of my favorite Joker lines/moments in Hamill's career as the character. By that some token, though, the game also showcases how the writers weren't entirely confident in handling Scarecrow as a main threat without relying on Joker as a crutch.
I loved Joker the best in Arkham Knight and Orgins. I feel like these 2 stories actually allowed us to explore Jokers psyche, and how it contrasts (or even in some case mirrors) Batman’s psyche.
I honestly think that the Joker in Knight is actually his ghost haunting Bruce and the reason Bruce can see him is because of the fear gas. Some of the dialog Joker has is just too on point for it to be a hallucination. Like saying he came back from the the dead or that he's been to hell and they sent him back for a reason. In a universe like this it is completely possible.
He couldn’t have been. The first Joker hallucination happens right after the Mr Freeze fight in Arkham City, which is when the real Joker is still alive
I prefer it as a hallucination. Especially because hallucination Joker and real Joker are so indistinguishable that it shows that Batman really knew Joker. He knew him so well that he couldn’t help but form a perfect replica of him in his mind. I like this idea that when you know someone so well, even after they’re death they’re not really gone. For most that’s a good thing, but for Batman remembering Joker it’s a very bad thing.
You guys are kind of missing the point in my opinion. It’s not only that joker is taking over. But it’s the scary thought that Bruce Wayne secretly wants to do all this damage himself but he constantly fights the urge. It’s almost as if he’s afraid that joker will make him more of the monster he truly is. He wants to kill all those bad people that cause harm like his parents killer but he’s constantly fighting the urge. Joker embraces his urges and that’s why joker is infatuated with Batman because he knows deep down inside he’s just as crazy as joker but just suppresses it
What about the fact that when joker first appears as the hallucination he’s incredibly sick looking but by the end he’s at full health as if to say I’m about to take over
i think you can’t beat the nostalgia of city BUT the pure amount of amazing small joker lines we get through arkham knight is just perfect. having him there through the whole game is something i felt was missed with the other games he wasn’t really on screen much but in arkham knight he is.
I will give props to this game for fully delving into the mentality of Batman by making Joker the embodiment of his greatest fear as he fights crime (something even touched on in Arkham Asylum). Even if I do not care much for Joker's inclusion in this game at the expense of Scarecrow, it did result in some really cool storytelling especially when Batman overcomes this fear and exposes Joker for what he is.
100% this was my favourite batman game and one of the things i liked the most was the huge amount of joker content due to him actually being in your head, and the way hes able to use all the extra knowledge he has from this circumstance to torment him but also bring a comic relief at times aswell
Kevin Conroy Batman and Mark Hamill Joker is my favorite pair of foes in any media. Whether it be the old animated series or the Arkham games, these 2 did a great job with these very iconic characters
There was no joker, everything joker tells or shows Batman is stuff he knows deep deep down but his moral code or trauma won’t let him admit. “The joker” isn’t the joker, it’s Bruce’s brain mixing with the toxin.
There's a pretty consistent theme in these games of Batman's villains attempting to attack his mind directly, rather than challenge him physically, and he has to repel them in some elaborate way. While these moments are really cool, think about what that would do to a regular person. Would any of the rest of us be able to escape even one of these traps? The accumulated strain by the last game must be incredible and it's for that reason that I believe the title "Arkham Knight" partially refers to Batman himself. It's what he becomes if he mentally succumbs.
Nah cuz they are different, this arkham joker taking over batman sould just be a joker with main charecter powers lol with the x200 combo, batman who laughs IS batman who got infected with the joker virus with laugh gas or smthn like that so he had batmans iq and anger and everything do he could potentially do anything
I love this video, but I disagree with this part. 9:30 You have to remember that this isn’t actually joker, this is Batman’s mind hallucinating. So, “the joker” can’t know something that Batman doesn’t already know. I think this scene was just the joker side of Batman’s mind trying to convince him to lock Tim in a cell. Batman’s fear is that Tim will die like the last robin if he is not kept safe. This is just showing his thought process by having “the Joker” remind him.
Remember how the Punisher series had Karen Page make the argument that Frank Castle is trapped in the moment his family died? That's Batman, especially in the Arkham games. He relives it every single time. I imagine it's stunted his emotional growth so that he can't move beyond it.
In retrospect, I feel like this was the best thing Rocksteady could have done. Batman’s biggest fear is becoming the criminals he fights so of COURSE that would manifest as his nemesis… I just wish that were the explanation instead of the stupid blood plot
There has been a lot of cases where people who receive blood or organs from others develop traits from the original owners, so while an exaggeration, It's still a creative way to bring the Joker back.
@@hibikiverdugo9465it's one of the scariest things to consider and it's so bizarre most people don't like to accept it upon first hearing, but yeah, it turns out blood transfusions can actually affect personality and even preferences for things like food. Creepy
The Joker of Arkham Knight was one of the most subtle, yet glaring piece of psychological antagonism depictured in a video game. At first glance it looks like it's just Rockstar re-using and abusing the Joker as a character, over and over again. But when you realize that the "Arkham" series is entirely centered on the duality between Batman and Joker, you know that, as it started with both, it could only end with both. Regarding the game, factually speaking : joker IS dead. And the hallucination that Batman has of him are due to his own worst fear : turning into the Joker. So throughout the WHOLE game, the whole story, it's not Joker per se that harass the Batman : it's Batman's very own psyche that tortures him due to Scarecrow's toxins. In a sense, it's Batman's own cognitive capabilities that are turned against himself throughout the vision of Joker. When you look back at Arkham City, Joker DID manage to get under Batman's skin (litteraly even.) But when Joker managed to outsmart him with Clayface, killing Talia in the process, that's when he truly got at him - his own death, laughing at the prospect of knowing that Batman would've saved him, was the pivotal point. Because Joker died as himself, true to his own insane character to the end. Then Arkham Knight. A scenario almost similar to the previous one is at play, here ; that of Joker lying all of the facts, one point after another, regarding Jason Todd (i.e. Batman's greatest defeat at Joker's hand.) But the big twist is, it's not Joker showing those visions : it's Batman himself reaching those conclusions, under the form of visions. Ergo : *Batman ALREADY concluded that the Arkham Kight WAS Jason Todd.* He connected the dots since the first vision of Jason Todd appeared, in the early part of the game. So why did he look surprised when Jason finally revealed himself ? Because Batman himself was in denial about it ; most specifically, Bruce was blaming himself for losing Talia like he lost Jason and couldn't acknowledge that this new ennemy was in fact the partner he once called "son". In short, he couldn't admit that Joker still inflicted a defeat on him *from the grave.* Considering all the crap he went through by the years, who would blame him ? Especially since Scarecrow's toxins are absolutely nothing to scoff at. But the best part of it all ? Once Batman got into the van to be brought back to Arkham Asylum, Joker's hallucination, now as it's full potency due to Scarecrow's toxin (again, you have to remember that it's Batman own psyche that fight against Batman here), granted Batman the final vision that defeated the caped crusader for good : he made Batman snap his neck into the alley where his parents got killed. Hallucination or not, that was the last straw : Joker had won. Batman had lost. (Most specifically, Batman's own toxin infected mentality defeated him.) So how did Joker lose in the end ? The ultimate twist : Scarecrow defeated him. The moment Joker took over Batman in the Asylum, Scarecrow gave his monologue by which he stated that he would free him to spread chaos in the streets of Gotham. The Joker, being the one in charge at that moment, simply answered _"Good",_ because that's EXACTLY what he wanted himself - that he taunted Batman all along during the whole game, that he would do once he was in charge. So how did Scarecrow react ? Completely dumbfounded. Why ? Because Scarecrow do not see Joker : *he sees Batman !* He cannot fathom for an instant that the persona of the Clown Prince of Crime was resurrected by both his and Batman's efforts. It's simply beyond unbelievable. And because it's Joker he's talking to, then of course he's not afraid of Scarecrow : he's giving him EXACTLY what he wants ! So what does Scarecrow do before a Batman laughing to his face ? Seemingly impervious to his fear toxin ? The only thing he can : *injecting a second dose of toxin.* Joker, having an hallucination of Gotham burning, just after being injected by the toxin, reacts in it by stating _"Guess i'm toxin proof."_ As it really doesn't seem to affect him in any way whatsoever. Then the fires and lights of the destroyed Gotham start to be all extinguished, until only darkness remain. And you realize that no, he's not toxin proof. Because now, Scarecrow's toxin act AGAINST Joker's persona and bolster that of Batman. Because Batman knows that, ultimately, as Joker got into his head, so did Batman into Joker's. And uncontrary to Joker, Batman didn't take all night to get at him - which is exactly the kind of stuff that scares Joker. The whole vision Joker was having due to Scarecrow's toxin, was Batman realizing Joker's very own worst nightmare : boxing him away in a cell and throwing away the key. With no one to remember him. Forever. Joker defeated Batman thanks to Scarecrow's toxin ; Batman defeated Joker thanks to Scarecrow's toxin. Then Bruce Wayne, exposed by Scarecrow, defeated the mad chimio-psychologist with his own toxin. Mutual Assured Destruction. It's started in Arkham, it ended in Arkham. Now, THAT'S a Batman story.
Joker said Batman killed him by not giving him the cure and that he'd make Batman kill again. Then later Batman makes a choice regarding Ra's Al Ghul...
My favorite part of Batman is each of his enemies represent a stronger part of himself, such as Bane is Batman’s strength but he’s stronger, two face is fighting having two sides like Batman and Bruce, riddler is Batman’s intelligence and so on
Joker wasn't my problem with this game. My main problem was the over reliance on the Batmobile, and criminally short main story line. I loved most of the side missions, but I just felt the main story with Scarecrow was so, underwhelming. I love Scarecrow as a Batman villain and I wanted him fleshed out more and a more credible threat. But it felt like this game could've easily ended ten minutes after it started if Bruce had just made better choices in his strategy. But they had to force failure on Bruce's part were he probably wouldn't have in other continuities just so we could have a game to play. As much as I like what they did with Joker in Knight I think killing him off in City was a huge mistake. Joker will always be more of an endgame boss kind of character than poor Scarecrow ever will be, no matter how hard he tries.
i like the play between joker taking over and scrawcrow fear gas. both of those threats together, and how they interlink, were *very good.* i think the barbara hallucination was the peak of that, two forms of hallucination playing so perfectly together that not only hints at it being a lie (the joker touching the gun), but also hightening the intensity of the scene when the joker hides the event itself (making fun of it as if it was real). then, obviously, joker continually bringing it up. and *singing* about it, reflecting how often batman is thinking about and tormented by the event. plus blaming himself
I fucking loved joker in this game i miss him talking to me on a rooftop after i almost died. Also i loved it when he sang that song during the robin mission where you gotta disarm bombs
Joker was great in the game. Very interesting and very haunting. At multiple points before finishing the game I became unsure if Scarecrow was actually Scarecrow. I was wondering if Batman was so traumatised by jokers death and the delusions of joker were foreshadowing of him being still alive. Maybe Joker was Scarecrow in disguise. The real Scarecrow died in the Asylum game and joke took his place like how he disguised himself as Black Mask. 🤷♂️. It really had me on my toes especially after the fear toxin was released on the city
Mark Hamill as the joker is the best thing ever anytime you get him in that role its always perfect. i loved this game well except the car thing but im replaying it now to
Knight has been getting a lot of love recently and it definitely grew on me a lot it has its problems especially lack of boss fights and lack of Paul deni but the game is phenomenal overall it reminds me of God of war 3 a bit when it released it was love but not so much and recently its been praised a lot
I love that almost every line could be read both as something the real Joker would absolutely say and as genuine thoughts and doubts Batman carries around with him. Like the lines about Joker's death make me think Batman still feels guilty about not being able to save him and questions his own motives because he remembers feeling conflicted about saving the guy who had done nonstop monstrous things to him and everybody else in that game.
This version of the joker was my favorite without even playing the other games of the series, just Knight. Best design, great acting (cant decide between Hamill and Ledger), creative mental conflict, that fit Batman‘s most iconic villain perfectly. On my first playthrough I probably screenshotted every single appearance and hallucination of him. I loved how you could feel him taking over, when he became more influential and not just a commenting voice.
7:52 the thing about Arkham knight is that Joker was never there. That was just Bruce’s mind conjuring up the worst thoughts. The Joker died in Arkham City and Bruce could never let him go.
Joker in batman's body would be unstoppable, Here is a real question do you think batman is really insane cause in Asylum scarecrow said he is as crazy as the rest of them I think he is just a stronger and better person. I love the part where you blow up the first cache and joker said he would help Alfred do batman's laundry
9:39 that's an interesting way to interpret it and the parallel between the arkham knight and Robin is definitely intended so it may be sort of a double entendre. But on a first play through, you can infer that what joker is actually trying to do here is show batman that Tim can't take on the Arkham Knight and will die just like how Jason couldn't take on joker and got killed because Batman couldn't save him.
I've always held the headcanon that Batman *was* cured of Joker's toxin at the end of City, and what we see in Knight is just Scarecrow's fear gas breaking down his mind.
actually batman isnt fully cured from joker's toxin because he drank half of it not all of it. i think that part is also the reason for the joker personality thingy
13:50 "Except in the Dark Knight, where he randomly kicks Batman's ass" Actually, in that movie, he is nothing impressive as far as physical strength goes. He used dogs to distract him, tangled him in a net, used a sneak attack to smash him into a window and trapped him in construction railing. He was anticipating Batman would come and he had a plan, for the hostages, for the fight and even a backup for his "test". Batman was better conditioned, trained and equipped, but Joker had simple and effective counters to all of it. Despite claiming otherwise, he is one of the most methodical version of the character.
He was the only part about the game I enjoyed story wise. I find the whole Arkham Knight and scarecrow story kinda meh, and not paced well. I wish there was a ploy twist where it turned out the Joker virus was not real. And batman imagined the whole thing because Joker finally got to him
Jay, could you make your mic audio in these videos mono instead of stereo because the two of you are in different ears in my headphones and idk it messes with me a little. Not a big deal just a little thing
Sorry I didn't see this. Over time I'd like to go back through the games because the Asylum and City ones are fun with T but the gameplay for the vids isn't crisp and the audio is bad. So We will see who it will be. I think Jill wanted to play through Asylum with me. My plan is to re-record Asylum, City, and do Knight along with DLC. It just is more a question of when.
When will you guys be doing a Let's Play for Arkham Knight? Your Arkham Let's Plays are my absolute favorite. Can't wait for you guys to do Arkham Knight 🙂
The whole people turning into the Joker is still the worst parts of this game’s story. It’s stupid. Joker’s blood should be fine on its own. This kind of undermines the whole One Bad Day thing if he just became insane due to the chemicals.
there's an amazing quote from under the redhood that describes exactly the point you made about the thought of killing the joker has crossed batman's mind. "God almighty no.... itll be to damned easy, all ive ever wanted to do was kill him, there's not a day that goes by where i dont think of subjecting him to every horrendous torture he's dealt out and then.. end him, but if i cross that line if i take that step theres no going back."
i just played this game for the first time about a few weeks ago, and honestly i cant believe some ppl didnt like it. this is quite possibly THE BEST and most compelling Batman story i ever seen in my life. the gameplay is fun, the graphic is incredible, the hidden mechanics, clever game design, this is up there as one of the best game i ever played.
This is one of the reasons why I believe Arkham Knight is the best game in the Arkhamverse. Batman is really pushed to the limit, both physically and mentally, by Scarecrow and Joker, and they really get through to him. Fun fact: this idea of a Joker hallucination induced by Scarecrow fear toxin was first pitched as an idea for the cancelled film Batman Unchained, which was going to be a sequel to the god awful Batman and Robin
One thing I might be overanalyzing. When batman locks joker away at the end of knight its the maximum security cells from the first boss in arlham asylum. And obvious reference as well as a representation of joker being locked away forever. But I often think of it as a reference to when Joker offered to batman "knock me off and end this once and for all". And that same cell in knight is where he does end it once and for all
Well in the comic books they talk about the joker in the arkham games and he was resurected and bats is all depressed saying what was the point of everything he did since joker can destroy his city all over again
I would love to see what batman looked like when he killed the villains & what he looked like when he was laughing at scarecrow. We saw joker, they saw batman/bruce
I wish we could’ve seen Bruce eyes turn green and laughing instead of joker because if you go back to the good lock up one of the cops say “it was badass when you were laughing in scarecrows face like that”
I love how well Batman knows joker to the point where all of jokers characteristics are manifested perfectly as opposed to the other joker copies. Hence why Henry Adams saw the potential and knew he was inferior. A perfect iteration of joker within the body of Batman. That's what inspired the Batman who laughs after all.
I only hated the fact of getting all riddler trophies to get the actual ending after already collected them all from the previous two games and each one has more then the last i don't want to got through it all over again
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Fun fact: The idea of Joker being a hallucination that taunts Batman relentlessly has never been done before this game.
The fact that this game inspired the Batman Who Laughs is so crazy to think about
@@UnrealNode I mean, the Man Who Laughed literally inspired Joker, so I guess you’re correct. I was saying that Arkham Knight inspired the idea of Joker taking over Batman’s brain.
@@UnrealNodeNo you're think about that but Batman who Laughs is a completely different thing
@@UnrealNodethinking is hard huh pal
Actually when punching Mr freeze in city his face turns Into joker between punches
One thing i love about the Joker in Arkham Knight is as you go on through the story Joker starts to look healthier as he gets a stronger hold on Batman
I never noticed that, that's neat.
I noticed that my last time playing after playing like 5 times it’s a cool little design that is hard to realize
Honestly I liked Joker being a mental challenge since it was a challenge Batman couldn't just go and punch it but he actually had to have a battle of the will to take down Joker
I like versions of joker who have hands
I think it's a game so the writers just sorta did whatever
Honestly.....you copied exactly the premise of the video as if it was your own thinking.
Realistically joker can fight he just can’t fight Batman 😂
I love all the instances of Joker just popping up randomly throughout the city, we tease rocksteady that we got tired of joker being the main threat, but Arkham knight is his best work imo
Yeah I loved him in that game. I think that it just didn't go over well that the twist in Origins involved Joker. I love Joker in that game but sometimes I wish WBGM had found a different way to introduce him to that story so that it wasn't such a fatigue-causer with a lot of people leading into AK.
@@DegenerateJay Yeah. He would've been fine as a cameo or even secondary antagonist, but them spoiling Black Mask is what left the sour taste
It was so clever how Joker finally took over at the end but Scarecrow injects Batman a second time and mistakenly allowed Batman to regain control.
Joker's ego was his own undoing.
Because Jokers fear was Batman lol and that fear (Batman) won!
@@Cooler7328 Would that mean that Batman fear was him turning into the Joker?
@@diegobv8309Yes, that's why Joker took over after the first injection.
He shoulf have quickly said like oh wait scarecrow im the joker and people would remember him because he said that so he wouldnt be scared of being forgotten so batman couldnt do that
The Arkham-games take on Joker is my favourite (and a big reason is Mark Hamill), so having that absolute menace in my ear during most of the game was superfun. I love how despite being a very messed up psychopath capable of vile deeds of destruction, he can still be really funny and silly. Like back in Arkham Asylum when he strangles a guard while yelling "Hurry doc, we're loosing him!", then he proceeds to kill the doctor and dance over his corpse giggling like a child. He is a monster, but a very entertaining one at that.
That's why Joker is Batman's arch-villain. He is absolute menace with 0 regards to anything. If you try to break Joker, he will break your mind instead. (literally and figuratively)
😢
The CHOKES on you!
I loved the ending. Batman locking Joker’s memory away forever.
He tried rehabilitating him, he tried saving him, all while he killed innocence and loved one. But finally the rabid dog was put down, and Bruce doesn’t need to bare the burden of his existence anymore.
i kinda feel bad in way because his not really dead his just stuck there
Joker foreshadowing to Batman who the Arkham Knight might be is like the shadow side of Bruce's psyche subconscious recognizing he probably knew who the Arkham Knight was the entire time but couldn't admit it to himself.
Also, note how as the trilogy goes on Joker goes from being a physical threat to a mental one. The Asylum is small, but this is his domain, and Batman is smaller physically in comparison to Titan Joker.
Then as the setting gets bigger, Joker's threat becomes more mental, but Batman physically gets stronger.
It's almost likes hes a tumour.
That's a briliant obersvation, I did not notice that before.
It was the real joker lol, not batmans subconscious, i think joker knew the whole time thats why he kept showing batman those torture moments in his head because he talked to jason during arkham city while clayface fought batman according to comics, thats why joker knew and also ig batman probably should have known
It was not.
Joker is dead, he is not a ghost, Batman just knows Joker so well that when he recreates him in his head, he does so perfectly.@@THEMUSCLEEXPERIENCE
Well that and he also got a bigger dosage of Joker's blood.
One thing that always confused me as far as criticism for knight what that it was too obvious Jason was the Arkham Knight. In my eyes, it was supposed to be obvious, but Bruce just didn't want to accept that his greatest failure had come back to haunt him (very much in a parallel to the original under the red hood storyline).
If they had set jason up even a tad in city or something I wouldn't have as much ossue with jason
@@lindaunderling4637before arkham knight they made comics showing jason todd stalking batman in city, he watched him fight clayface and talked to sick joker during city while batman was under the rocks which makes it crazy to think when ur playing the gsme ur being watched by jason todd, and in asylum remastered theres a spot in the map where jason was killed, evidence via the recording joker sent us in arkham vr
Basically: The Batman who laughs BEFORE the character was a thing in DC Comics
This right here
Exactly what I was saying
I would have liked it if the game focused more on scarecrow but I love when joker just randomly pops up and taunts batman
@@godzillazfriction I know
@@godzillazfrictionbut it's so accurate to what Joker actually was because Batman fought him a lot of times that we can basically consider it the exact copy of Joker's consciousness.
I don't mind how little they focused on Scarecrow, because I think that him turning into the Gotham Boogeyman in this game worked because he came back with a vengeance after Asylum
One of my favorite Joker moments in this game is when he copies the Man-Bat jump scare. Never even saw that until my third playthrough of the game.
Pre-launch, I was firmly in the camp of not wanting Joker in the game, especially after Origins already pulled a "surprise, he's the main villain again!". That said, writing wins out in the end, and Knight has some of my favorite Joker lines/moments in Hamill's career as the character.
By that some token, though, the game also showcases how the writers weren't entirely confident in handling Scarecrow as a main threat without relying on Joker as a crutch.
It honestly worked out rather well with treating Scarecrow as the boogeyman.
I loved Joker the best in Arkham Knight and Orgins. I feel like these 2 stories actually allowed us to explore Jokers psyche, and how it contrasts (or even in some case mirrors) Batman’s psyche.
I always really loved the psychological aspect of the character in this game and the hallucinations
To he fair, the reason Bruce was si angry in that part of Arkham Origins is because he knew the victims and the murderer personally.
I honestly think that the Joker in Knight is actually his ghost haunting Bruce and the reason Bruce can see him is because of the fear gas. Some of the dialog Joker has is just too on point for it to be a hallucination. Like saying he came back from the the dead or that he's been to hell and they sent him back for a reason. In a universe like this it is completely possible.
He couldn’t have been. The first Joker hallucination happens right after the Mr Freeze fight in Arkham City, which is when the real Joker is still alive
I prefer it as a hallucination. Especially because hallucination Joker and real Joker are so indistinguishable that it shows that Batman really knew Joker. He knew him so well that he couldn’t help but form a perfect replica of him in his mind.
I like this idea that when you know someone so well, even after they’re death they’re not really gone. For most that’s a good thing, but for Batman remembering Joker it’s a very bad thing.
You guys are kind of missing the point in my opinion. It’s not only that joker is taking over. But it’s the scary thought that Bruce Wayne secretly wants to do all this damage himself but he constantly fights the urge. It’s almost as if he’s afraid that joker will make him more of the monster he truly is. He wants to kill all those bad people that cause harm like his parents killer but he’s constantly fighting the urge. Joker embraces his urges and that’s why joker is infatuated with Batman because he knows deep down inside he’s just as crazy as joker but just suppresses it
Glad someone finally appreciates it. I always thought it truly was a love letter to jokers character
Finally i found people who enjoys arkham knight joker like i do
Oh I love that version of the character he's so cool. Hope you enjoyed the video!
What about the fact that when joker first appears as the hallucination he’s incredibly sick looking but by the end he’s at full health as if to say I’m about to take over
i think you can’t beat the nostalgia of city BUT the pure amount of amazing small joker lines we get through arkham knight is just perfect. having him there through the whole game is something i felt was missed with the other games he wasn’t really on screen much but in arkham knight he is.
I will give props to this game for fully delving into the mentality of Batman by making Joker the embodiment of his greatest fear as he fights crime (something even touched on in Arkham Asylum).
Even if I do not care much for Joker's inclusion in this game at the expense of Scarecrow, it did result in some really cool storytelling especially when Batman overcomes this fear and exposes Joker for what he is.
They still dropped the ball on Jason tho
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
The Non-Lethal BatTank is my favorite thing ever.
100% this was my favourite batman game and one of the things i liked the most was the huge amount of joker content due to him actually being in your head, and the way hes able to use all the extra knowledge he has from this circumstance to torment him but also bring a comic relief at times aswell
Kevin Conroy Batman and Mark Hamill Joker is my favorite pair of foes in any media. Whether it be the old animated series or the Arkham games, these 2 did a great job with these very iconic characters
They both gave such brilliant performances and always cared so much about the characters. It's really awesome to see.
There was no joker, everything joker tells or shows Batman is stuff he knows deep deep down but his moral code or trauma won’t let him admit. “The joker” isn’t the joker, it’s Bruce’s brain mixing with the toxin.
You know there was concept art of titan joker being a lot more limber and suited more for predator based boss fight that would been a lot more creeper
dude we need a harley quinn game like this. Imagine the mental rivalry between harley and harleen
Kinda pales in comparison to Knight, but I think something like this was kind of done in Harley's DLC
There's a pretty consistent theme in these games of Batman's villains attempting to attack his mind directly, rather than challenge him physically, and he has to repel them in some elaborate way. While these moments are really cool, think about what that would do to a regular person. Would any of the rest of us be able to escape even one of these traps? The accumulated strain by the last game must be incredible and it's for that reason that I believe the title "Arkham Knight" partially refers to Batman himself. It's what he becomes if he mentally succumbs.
The amount of video essays I consume, its really cool to hear a conversation between two super fans. Makes you really stand out amongst the rest.
Imagine this version of Joker becoming Batman, he might eventually become something similar to The Batman Who Laughs
What. The joker who broods XD
Nah cuz they are different, this arkham joker taking over batman sould just be a joker with main charecter powers lol with the x200 combo, batman who laughs IS batman who got infected with the joker virus with laugh gas or smthn like that so he had batmans iq and anger and everything do he could potentially do anything
I love this video, but I disagree with this part. 9:30 You have to remember that this isn’t actually joker, this is Batman’s mind hallucinating. So, “the joker” can’t know something that Batman doesn’t already know. I think this scene was just the joker side of Batman’s mind trying to convince him to lock Tim in a cell. Batman’s fear is that Tim will die like the last robin if he is not kept safe. This is just showing his thought process by having “the Joker” remind him.
Remember how the Punisher series had Karen Page make the argument that Frank Castle is trapped in the moment his family died? That's Batman, especially in the Arkham games. He relives it every single time. I imagine it's stunted his emotional growth so that he can't move beyond it.
In retrospect, I feel like this was the best thing Rocksteady could have done. Batman’s biggest fear is becoming the criminals he fights so of COURSE that would manifest as his nemesis…
I just wish that were the explanation instead of the stupid blood plot
There has been a lot of cases where people who receive blood or organs from others develop traits from the original owners, so while an exaggeration, It's still a creative way to bring the Joker back.
@@hibikiverdugo9465it's one of the scariest things to consider and it's so bizarre most people don't like to accept it upon first hearing, but yeah, it turns out blood transfusions can actually affect personality and even preferences for things like food. Creepy
There's a scene on Scarecrow's blimp where Joker completely took control of Batman although very briefly. Speaking with Joker's voice and thoughts.
Yeah he had control just for a little he even fought the thugs as joker
best takes i’ve ever heard. id absolutely watch y’all have this conversation for an hour
Joker as a constant presence messing with your head was one of my favorite parts of the game.
13:30 except in The Batman,(the cartoon, not the movie), where he inexplicably knows Kung Fu, and becomes a vampire for like five minutes.
Arkham knight is severely underrated. Best superhero game in imo
Still wish they did a better job with Jason/Arkham knight
The Joker of Arkham Knight was one of the most subtle, yet glaring piece of psychological antagonism depictured in a video game. At first glance it looks like it's just Rockstar re-using and abusing the Joker as a character, over and over again. But when you realize that the "Arkham" series is entirely centered on the duality between Batman and Joker, you know that, as it started with both, it could only end with both.
Regarding the game, factually speaking : joker IS dead. And the hallucination that Batman has of him are due to his own worst fear : turning into the Joker. So throughout the WHOLE game, the whole story, it's not Joker per se that harass the Batman : it's Batman's very own psyche that tortures him due to Scarecrow's toxins. In a sense, it's Batman's own cognitive capabilities that are turned against himself throughout the vision of Joker.
When you look back at Arkham City, Joker DID manage to get under Batman's skin (litteraly even.) But when Joker managed to outsmart him with Clayface, killing Talia in the process, that's when he truly got at him - his own death, laughing at the prospect of knowing that Batman would've saved him, was the pivotal point. Because Joker died as himself, true to his own insane character to the end.
Then Arkham Knight. A scenario almost similar to the previous one is at play, here ; that of Joker lying all of the facts, one point after another, regarding Jason Todd (i.e. Batman's greatest defeat at Joker's hand.) But the big twist is, it's not Joker showing those visions : it's Batman himself reaching those conclusions, under the form of visions. Ergo : *Batman ALREADY concluded that the Arkham Kight WAS Jason Todd.* He connected the dots since the first vision of Jason Todd appeared, in the early part of the game. So why did he look surprised when Jason finally revealed himself ? Because Batman himself was in denial about it ; most specifically, Bruce was blaming himself for losing Talia like he lost Jason and couldn't acknowledge that this new ennemy was in fact the partner he once called "son". In short, he couldn't admit that Joker still inflicted a defeat on him *from the grave.*
Considering all the crap he went through by the years, who would blame him ? Especially since Scarecrow's toxins are absolutely nothing to scoff at.
But the best part of it all ? Once Batman got into the van to be brought back to Arkham Asylum, Joker's hallucination, now as it's full potency due to Scarecrow's toxin (again, you have to remember that it's Batman own psyche that fight against Batman here), granted Batman the final vision that defeated the caped crusader for good : he made Batman snap his neck into the alley where his parents got killed. Hallucination or not, that was the last straw : Joker had won. Batman had lost. (Most specifically, Batman's own toxin infected mentality defeated him.)
So how did Joker lose in the end ?
The ultimate twist : Scarecrow defeated him.
The moment Joker took over Batman in the Asylum, Scarecrow gave his monologue by which he stated that he would free him to spread chaos in the streets of Gotham. The Joker, being the one in charge at that moment, simply answered _"Good",_ because that's EXACTLY what he wanted himself - that he taunted Batman all along during the whole game, that he would do once he was in charge. So how did Scarecrow react ? Completely dumbfounded. Why ? Because Scarecrow do not see Joker : *he sees Batman !* He cannot fathom for an instant that the persona of the Clown Prince of Crime was resurrected by both his and Batman's efforts. It's simply beyond unbelievable. And because it's Joker he's talking to, then of course he's not afraid of Scarecrow : he's giving him EXACTLY what he wants !
So what does Scarecrow do before a Batman laughing to his face ? Seemingly impervious to his fear toxin ? The only thing he can : *injecting a second dose of toxin.*
Joker, having an hallucination of Gotham burning, just after being injected by the toxin, reacts in it by stating _"Guess i'm toxin proof."_ As it really doesn't seem to affect him in any way whatsoever.
Then the fires and lights of the destroyed Gotham start to be all extinguished, until only darkness remain. And you realize that no, he's not toxin proof.
Because now, Scarecrow's toxin act AGAINST Joker's persona and bolster that of Batman. Because Batman knows that, ultimately, as Joker got into his head, so did Batman into Joker's. And uncontrary to Joker, Batman didn't take all night to get at him - which is exactly the kind of stuff that scares Joker. The whole vision Joker was having due to Scarecrow's toxin, was Batman realizing Joker's very own worst nightmare : boxing him away in a cell and throwing away the key. With no one to remember him. Forever.
Joker defeated Batman thanks to Scarecrow's toxin ; Batman defeated Joker thanks to Scarecrow's toxin. Then Bruce Wayne, exposed by Scarecrow, defeated the mad chimio-psychologist with his own toxin. Mutual Assured Destruction.
It's started in Arkham, it ended in Arkham.
Now, THAT'S a Batman story.
Joker said Batman killed him by not giving him the cure and that he'd make Batman kill again.
Then later Batman makes a choice regarding Ra's Al Ghul...
My favorite part of Batman is each of his enemies represent a stronger part of himself, such as Bane is Batman’s strength but he’s stronger, two face is fighting having two sides like Batman and Bruce, riddler is Batman’s intelligence and so on
I'm actually playing through Arkham Knight again for like the 10th time. I love this game! Great video!
It's so easy to replay it.
Love the other costumes.
Joker wasn't my problem with this game. My main problem was the over reliance on the Batmobile, and criminally short main story line. I loved most of the side missions, but I just felt the main story with Scarecrow was so, underwhelming.
I love Scarecrow as a Batman villain and I wanted him fleshed out more and a more credible threat. But it felt like this game could've easily ended ten minutes after it started if Bruce had just made better choices in his strategy. But they had to force failure on Bruce's part were he probably wouldn't have in other continuities just so we could have a game to play.
As much as I like what they did with Joker in Knight I think killing him off in City was a huge mistake. Joker will always be more of an endgame boss kind of character than poor Scarecrow ever will be, no matter how hard he tries.
i like the play between joker taking over and scrawcrow fear gas. both of those threats together, and how they interlink, were *very good.*
i think the barbara hallucination was the peak of that, two forms of hallucination playing so perfectly together that not only hints at it being a lie (the joker touching the gun), but also hightening the intensity of the scene when the joker hides the event itself (making fun of it as if it was real).
then, obviously, joker continually bringing it up. and *singing* about it, reflecting how often batman is thinking about and tormented by the event. plus blaming himself
Aside from the Batmobile and Riddler race levels, I love this game and play through it once a year.
Arkham content from jay you know it’s a good day
I fucking loved joker in this game i miss him talking to me on a rooftop after i almost died. Also i loved it when he sang that song during the robin mission where you gotta disarm bombs
Joker was great in the game. Very interesting and very haunting. At multiple points before finishing the game I became unsure if Scarecrow was actually Scarecrow. I was wondering if Batman was so traumatised by jokers death and the delusions of joker were foreshadowing of him being still alive. Maybe Joker was Scarecrow in disguise. The real Scarecrow died in the Asylum game and joke took his place like how he disguised himself as Black Mask. 🤷♂️. It really had me on my toes especially after the fear toxin was released on the city
It's a grim reminder that Joker may be gone, but he never really LEFT.
You guys have incredible commentary. It's so refreshing!
Mark Hamill as the joker is the best thing ever anytime you get him in that role its always perfect. i loved this game well except the car thing but im replaying it now to
Knight has been getting a lot of love recently and it definitely grew on me a lot it has its problems especially lack of boss fights and lack of Paul deni but the game is phenomenal overall it reminds me of God of war 3 a bit when it released it was love but not so much and recently its been praised a lot
Love to hear that as I’m playing the GOW games for the first time and I’m hyped to play the 3rd, and the new ones
Joker was excellently done I loved him in this I listened to everything he said
This concept should be used more ngl
I love that almost every line could be read both as something the real Joker would absolutely say and as genuine thoughts and doubts Batman carries around with him. Like the lines about Joker's death make me think Batman still feels guilty about not being able to save him and questions his own motives because he remembers feeling conflicted about saving the guy who had done nonstop monstrous things to him and everybody else in that game.
This version of the joker was my favorite without even playing the other games of the series, just Knight. Best design, great acting (cant decide between Hamill and Ledger), creative mental conflict, that fit Batman‘s most iconic villain perfectly. On my first playthrough I probably screenshotted every single appearance and hallucination of him. I loved how you could feel him taking over, when he became more influential and not just a commenting voice.
7:52 the thing about Arkham knight is that Joker was never there. That was just Bruce’s mind conjuring up the worst thoughts. The Joker died in Arkham City and Bruce could never let him go.
Joker in batman's body would be unstoppable, Here is a real question do you think batman is really insane cause in Asylum scarecrow said he is as crazy as the rest of them I think he is just a stronger and better person. I love the part where you blow up the first cache and joker said he would help Alfred do batman's laundry
9:39 that's an interesting way to interpret it and the parallel between the arkham knight and Robin is definitely intended so it may be sort of a double entendre. But on a first play through, you can infer that what joker is actually trying to do here is show batman that Tim can't take on the Arkham Knight and will die just like how Jason couldn't take on joker and got killed because Batman couldn't save him.
i literally did not finished the main story before side quests, just to hav joker on my side during all sides xD
I've always held the headcanon that Batman *was* cured of Joker's toxin at the end of City, and what we see in Knight is just Scarecrow's fear gas breaking down his mind.
actually batman isnt fully cured from joker's toxin because he drank half of it not all of it. i think that part is also the reason for the joker personality thingy
I always looked at joker as the hilarious 3rd wheel providing comic relief while simultaneously providing some useful information
There should be an ending where you fail to lock joker up and you go through a while just watching. Your character can’t move But it is moving
damn that gameplay at 2:30 is so HD it made me think origins was ported to next gen
13:50 "Except in the Dark Knight, where he randomly kicks Batman's ass" Actually, in that movie, he is nothing impressive as far as physical strength goes. He used dogs to distract him, tangled him in a net, used a sneak attack to smash him into a window and trapped him in construction railing. He was anticipating Batman would come and he had a plan, for the hostages, for the fight and even a backup for his "test". Batman was better conditioned, trained and equipped, but Joker had simple and effective counters to all of it. Despite claiming otherwise, he is one of the most methodical version of the character.
Fun fact the hallucination jokers appear in detective vision with no skeleton just like clay face disguised as joker in Arkham city
He was the only part about the game I enjoyed story wise. I find the whole Arkham Knight and scarecrow story kinda meh, and not paced well. I wish there was a ploy twist where it turned out the Joker virus was not real. And batman imagined the whole thing because Joker finally got to him
if you like the idea of the villain being trapped in the head of the protagonist trope play tales from the borderlands
16:19 the current chip batman run has the zur personality and basically that batman is like 2 face with another personality
Jay, could you make your mic audio in these videos mono instead of stereo because the two of you are in different ears in my headphones and idk it messes with me a little. Not a big deal just a little thing
Great video! Will you ever do an Arkham knight let’s play with Nate or T in the future?
Sorry I didn't see this. Over time I'd like to go back through the games because the Asylum and City ones are fun with T but the gameplay for the vids isn't crisp and the audio is bad. So We will see who it will be. I think Jill wanted to play through Asylum with me. My plan is to re-record Asylum, City, and do Knight along with DLC. It just is more a question of when.
9:40 how Batman get out of the cell can’t be opened on the inside robin was outside
When will you guys be doing a Let's Play for Arkham Knight? Your Arkham Let's Plays are my absolute favorite. Can't wait for you guys to do Arkham Knight 🙂
The whole people turning into the Joker is still the worst parts of this game’s story. It’s stupid. Joker’s blood should be fine on its own. This kind of undermines the whole One Bad Day thing if he just became insane due to the chemicals.
there's an amazing quote from under the redhood that describes exactly the point you made about the thought of killing the joker has crossed batman's mind. "God almighty no.... itll be to damned easy, all ive ever wanted to do was kill him, there's not a day that goes by where i dont think of subjecting him to every horrendous torture he's dealt out and then.. end him, but if i cross that line if i take that step theres no going back."
i just played this game for the first time about a few weeks ago, and honestly i cant believe some ppl didnt like it. this is quite possibly THE BEST and most compelling Batman story i ever seen in my life. the gameplay is fun, the graphic is incredible, the hidden mechanics, clever game design, this is up there as one of the best game i ever played.
This is one of the reasons why I believe Arkham Knight is the best game in the Arkhamverse. Batman is really pushed to the limit, both physically and mentally, by Scarecrow and Joker, and they really get through to him. Fun fact: this idea of a Joker hallucination induced by Scarecrow fear toxin was first pitched as an idea for the cancelled film Batman Unchained, which was going to be a sequel to the god awful Batman and Robin
your guys analysis of these games and stories are amazing guys keep it up!
This video gives me nostalgia because I have watched gameplay from all of the games of the Arkham franchise.
One thing I might be overanalyzing. When batman locks joker away at the end of knight its the maximum security cells from the first boss in arlham asylum. And obvious reference as well as a representation of joker being locked away forever. But I often think of it as a reference to when Joker offered to batman "knock me off and end this once and for all". And that same cell in knight is where he does end it once and for all
7:43 the thought has to be there first for them to come out
Imagine like a venom situation where Batman is always trying to fight off joker from his mind
AK has aged so well
Great video Jay I enjoy listening to you guys discuss this and I agree I love what Arkham knight do with the joker in this game
Well in the comic books they talk about the joker in the arkham games and he was resurected and bats is all depressed saying what was the point of everything he did since joker can destroy his city all over again
Also, the scene with Scarecrow & Joker taking control is Luke Skywalker playing Darth Sidius as the Joker taunting Luke Skywalker
22:12 that's the cool thing if you play Arkham vr before Arkham Knight
This was a pretty good angle that I haven't seen before, interesting take.
18:00-18:20 sounds like you're describing my depression. Lol
The part where Joker gets shot by the sensory guns had me wheezing from laughter
I would love to see what batman looked like when he killed the villains & what he looked like when he was laughing at scarecrow. We saw joker, they saw batman/bruce
I wish we could’ve seen Bruce eyes turn green and laughing instead of joker because if you go back to the good lock up one of the cops say “it was badass when you were laughing in scarecrows face like that”
Always the best Arkham channel on RUclips ❤
I love how well Batman knows joker to the point where all of jokers characteristics are manifested perfectly as opposed to the other joker copies. Hence why Henry Adams saw the potential and knew he was inferior. A perfect iteration of joker within the body of Batman. That's what inspired the Batman who laughs after all.
7:49 in the DC multiverse people come back from the dead all the time so meh lol
New discussion what if Affleck’s Batman was in the Nolan universe.
The Jonkler and Man
I replay the game over and over just for different Joker interactions lol
I only hated the fact of getting all riddler trophies to get the actual ending after already collected them all from the previous two games and each one has more then the last i don't want to got through it all over again