In a former life I was an AV technician. I made many hundreds of cables for many different bits of equipment. Here's what makes the difference: 1. CABLE made with multistranded, fine gauge copper that doesn't fracture until it has been bent many times. Insulation made from flexible plastic that doesn't easily split or crack when the going gets tough or the weather gets cold. Coaxial screening that provides effective shielding from external electrical noise (copper braid, sometimes with an additional carbon-loaded plastic screen). Screen and shield shouldn't move relative to each other or you may get microphonic noise. 2. CONNECTORS made from good quality materials that won't break when trodden on. Terminals that are easily soldered. Strain relief to make sure that bending stress is not concentrated in a tiny length of cable. 3. HUMAN/MACHINE that knows what it is doing to join the parts together. Solder is mostly best. Crimps can work if they are well designed and aren't exposed to water. 1, 2, 3 don't come cheap. But, as always, there is the law of diminishing returns. If in doubt, make your own - it's not hard. Of course, if you have money to burn you can use conductors made with 100% oxygen-free silver; polymer insulation as used in SpaceX Starship; outer braid hand-woven in your own tartan using finest japanese silk. Your connectors can be milled from billets of gold plated platinum and the whole assembly put together by zen cable masters with 60 years of training. They won't sound any better but you will have ultimate bragging rights.
One hundred percent true! I used to make my own brand of cables from 1980-1993. And I can attest that it's the quality of the cable, the connecters and the people who put them together that make the difference. It's also worth noting that the best cables reduce the need for landfill. I still have some of my own leftover cables and they are still going strong.
Yes all true, I used to make adaptor cables to suit the purpose ,but now there are adaptors for just about everything AV and PC. Boy we seen some 1/4" Jack plug "VARIATIONS" (Being kind here) over the years
Agreed, 40 years I learnt to be an old fashioned Orchestral Strings, and Brass Musical Instrument Technician... After two years at College in Edinburgh, I worked for Boosey and Hawkes, London. Still with acoustics... Much later I did my C&G electronics, and even later became a Specialist NHS Electro-mechanical Engineer... PS I already knew how to do electrical solder, I was taught to solder cables by my father ex WWII RAF AG/Sigs and an apprentice Scientific Instrument Maker with STC before he decided he get involved in the little spot of bother over the channel. It was apparently a little difficult to arrange an electronics tech. to visit a Wellington at 1000' hunting for U-boats over the N. Atlantic. I did in fact aged 14, figure out how to make my first guitar sound bigger home made pickups from telephone speaker bits, and the scrap Local Hospital radio amplifier (I also quickly learnt not to touch HT valve top caps 😂)
Thanks for the info , very interesting combination of acoustic instruments and then into electronics side of things (Reminds me of Les Paul experimenting with Electronics,) I've messed around with electronics and Bass guitars for years on and off (built three) all turned out playable and can gig with. @@iandeare1
I suggest that the test would be most valid with the leads connected directly to passive pickups on a guitar. Since passive guitar pickups are inductors and cables are condensers (capacitors), they create a "2nd order low pass filter" as engineers call it. When you change the cable capacitance, you shift the resonant frequency around. In contrast, the looper pedal will have a fixed low resistance output impedance which will minimize the sonic differences between cables as well as the susceptibility to noise.
Agree with all you've said. I'd like to add that once the cable is being driven from passive guitar pickups, the test would best be done without amp gain. Overdriving the amp generates high(er) frequencies downstream from the cable that will mask the relative presence or absence of highs in the clean guitar signal.
Like with most things music related - I think it’s usually worth avoiding the cheapest option but you don’t have to go for a premium brand to get a good sound and better reliability.
I never noticed any sound differences in all the cables I have used through the years, that being said, I found that there is a big difference in how long cables last and what they can endure.
i used to go thru 5 cables a year. from guitar shops. bout 4 years ago i got d-addario american stage series cables. don't break. think they have warrantee to replace if they ever break
The problem is that you tried to look for difference from a low impedance source. The cable quality is embodied in its capacitance and it matters only connecting guitar passive circuits ( pickup when volume and tone pots are fully up). The cable capacitance between 150 pF to 600pF much larger than the internal capacitance of the pup and creates resonant LC with that so shifting the resonant frequency down in case of long and cheap cables , making the sound muddy. Good cables have lower capacitance per length ( pF / m) let more treble to pass and the smart way is playing with as short cable as possible to the first active ( low impedance output) element.
It gets even worse when you turn down the guitar's volume control, the control's resistance is then in series with the signal and the cable capacitance has even more of an effect in dulling the tone. A "treble bleed" capacitor between the volume's signal terminal and wiper helps, but stull won't give a flat response at lower volume for reasons, one being different capacitances of different cables.
Hi John,the output of the looper is a very low impedance i think so it wouldn’t be as affected by the cable capacitance as a high impedance guitar pickup would. Does that have a bearing on the test do you think? I would be interested to know if anybody could clear this up for me,cheers for your great content,Chris H.
Cables interact with the resistance/capacitance/inductance of the pickup and alter the "resonance" of the system (the pickup and lead) and thereby the frequencies of the peaks/troughs are moved.
Yep. It wasn't an accurate test. Need to try directly from a real non-active pickup (because active ones might have a low output impedance too, I don't know.)
from one cable end to the other, there are only 2 wires inside the sleeve. no "sound" ever goes from your guitar to your amp. what you hear coming out of the speaker, is the amps interpretation of a signal that your pick ups send to the input jack. that's all it is. as long as you have continuity, all cables will sound the same as long as they are the same length. that said, i save about 60% of the cost of cables by making my own. i buy bulk lengths of quality cable, and i keep cleaning and re using the same ends. when my buddies have a cable they're going to throw away, i try to ask for it, so i can scavenge the ends. i have a good soldering station, and i heat shrink the solder lugs, as well as the outer jacket to the cable end. my home made cables are as good as any available, but far less than half the cost. each time i make 2 cables, it takes about 23 minutes to set up the soldering station, make 2 cables, then put everything away.
Ooh, "all cables sound the same as long as they are the same length" is SO NOT true. For many reasons (eg resistance, capacitance, inductance, metal purity, sheathing material and method etc).
@@digitalchris6681 if you watched the video, you heard for yourself and saw the digital signature. you still don't believe your eyes and ears, and science? you aren't going to find a cable that, when functioning properly - displays a degradation of sound quality that is discernable with your ear, in sweetwater or guitar center's inventory. the aspects you mention only need to reach an acceptable threshold to produce good results. once you reach that point, improving any of those aspects will not result in better sound. that's actual and factual. feel free to post the url to your video proving me wrong. i'll be here.
@@digitalchris6681Same here mate. I bought my cables from a place called Visio sound about 7 or 8 years ago for about £5 - £6 each. I've still got them and they're still going strong.
Sorry John, not sure that's a completely valid test, though it does suggest the differences aren't as big as people expect. Using your looper pedal doesn't necessarily give the same output as a guitar. It has a low impedance output, so it would only be the same if you have a buffer circuit built into your guitar (most of us don't). The usual difference in quality cables is that they have lower capacitance. With the low impedance output you get from an electronic device the capacitance makes bugger all difference. With a guitar output (anywhere from 3k to 20k, depending on the pickups selected) the cable capacitance forms a low pass filter which can be enough to noticeably remove some high end. Incidentally, this is one reason why active pickups are designed to have a 10k output impedance each - otherwise the tone controls on the guitar wouldn't work! Add to that that it's not a clean signal we're listening to but overdriven, thus adding back any lost highs. Plus your best cable is the longest, taking away some of the advantage of its lower capacitance (per metre). For me, the differences are reliability of connection and some cheap cables actually generate a small signal when you move them - kind of microphonic
It was completely invalid. The guy has no clue what he is talking about. He thinks he's making the test "scientific" and yet he doesn't even connect the cable to his guitar.
Totally agree with your findings John.... you pay for build quality, I use decent mid price leads. But length of cable definitely has an effect. Longer cables have more resistance so you start to lose top end as the length increases. So keeping to no more than 3m is my rule. Not a problem at home.
2 things. 1. you need to evaluate the guitar+cable directly, and not the recording in the pedals (impedance and all that stuff). (the price of a cable has little to do with its quality) 2. It is almost impossible to hear anything through any distortion effect.
Holding a phone up to a single-coil pickup and playing test sounds out of it would be a way to get reproducible signals from an output that is electrically like a guitar pickup. The sound would be distorted since guitar pickups aren't designed for that purpose, but any differences caused by cables would be more noticeable than with a low-impedance looper-pedal output. Otherwise, the biggest differences with cables are going to be a function of how well they mate with the jacks on a guitar and amplifier. While cable capacitance might sometimes color a guitar's sound slightly, especially when using a long cable with a guitar that's set for about half volume, the main issue is whether the cable will work reliably with one's other equipment. A well-designed jack should be able to give good results with even a rather crummy plug, and even a crummy jack may work fine with a sufficiently good plug, but if one's equipment has crummy jacks one may get poor results unless one uses good plugs.
Yes, it's just a cable for relatively low frequency (compared to, say, RF), low current signal, if it conducts electricity and is shielded it will work and there will be no significant loss of signal. The difference between a good and a bad cable is not how they work when new, it's how long they work properly. The cheapest ones are ok for light home use but at a training room or expcially on gigs they would not be reliable. My favorite cable is Cordial cable with Neutrik plugs sold at Thomann (or sometimes I have bought the components separately and made my own but it's really not cheaper), good quality at a reasonable price. The Neutrik plugs have the best mechanical construction and strain relief I have seen, even many "high end" leads have inferior plugs.
FYI, My studio is a block away from 3 radio transmission towers. The cables that have the least RF interference are the one I make myself. Either Mogami or Canare cable and Neutrik ends. Even better than some very expensive, "boutique" ones that retailed well over $100. Try to keep your cables under 20 feet long or risk them turning into an antenna.
Using a looper pedal doesn't allow for a proper test. A guitar pickup is mostly resistive and inductive, while a pedal is a low impedance device. A guitar cord is mostly a capacitive element which will heavily interact with a guitar but will effectively not interact with a pedal. That's why you couldn't hear a difference. A cheap cord has a high capacitance, a long cord has a higher capacitance than a short cord. High capacitance kills high frequency, making the guitar sound dark. That's why guitar players will sometimes use a specific cord to shape the tone of their guitar. It's rumored that Jimi Hendrix used a 40 foot cord to shape his sound. If you try the rest again with a guitar, I'm certain that you'll hear a difference.
There could be a greater difference on longer cables between a thin and cheap and a quality cable with thicker copper wire (not necessary to be the most expensive). Then it‘s also about little loss of signal everywhere in the chain wich will add up. Starting with pots and caps, the output jack, the pedals, the amp input jack and such. Better to spend 20 bucks more for a good cable, wich (as John already mentioned) will also last longer. From my experience: I did hear a difference between the curled ultra cheap 3m „snake cable“ (around 2€) and the 3m /60€ „Monster Cable“. Some treble and lows loss. I compared the expensive one with a (few years ago 7,50€) 3m from Fender, and could not hear a difference (home noodling). So I sold the expensive one and bought 2 more Fender cables and a cheap overdrive. 😊
I've been using a couple of those "electric guitar accompanying" cables on my pedal board- I'm short 2 patch cables. They work fine. Like any cable, don't tread on them or kick them around and they are okay. I didn't hear even the tiniest bit of difference among the 3 cables. Isn't mythbusting fun?
John, what you've done by recording your guitar into a looper and then running the test through three different cables is to buffer your guitar's signal from the cables' impacts. In your attempt to remove variables from this test you've inadvertently isolated much more than just performance variations. A magnetic guitar pickup has a high and complex impedance. It's principally though not entirely a series inductance with some series resistance and a small parallel capacitance. This complexity and its high impedance makes its signal very susceptible to filtering by whatever the impedance is of the load it sees. Just whatever volume and tone controls are wired to the pickup within the guitar changes the frequency balance of the signal, to some degree even when those controls are turned fully up. The input impedance of a guitar amp, which can be thought of as a resistance, will also change the sound by filtering high frequencies to varying degrees, with low input resistances having the biggest impact down to almost none with a 1M ohm input. This is due to the inductance-resistance network (in simple terms) formed by the pickup to amp input connection. Adding a cable's parallel capacitance further reduces high frequencies, as does a series inductance which is a feature of curly cords. That may be either good or bad, depending on what you want out of your guitar sound. Brian May famously uses a curly cord as part of the sound he wants from his rig. On the other hand, when you used your looper recording, you isolated your guitar's complex impedance from any imacts of the cables. The looper's output impedance will be almost entirely resistive, so very simple. It will also be very much lower than your guitar's output: probably something measuring between one hundred to several hundred ohms. An output like that can drive quite a length of crappy, highly capacitive cable with little or no impact within the frequencies coming out of a magnetic pickup. This is why the quality of cable between your guitar and the first buffering circuit it meets is so important. Incidentally, piezo pickups, being primarily series capacitance rather than inductance, have a similar though quite different need for quality connections into high impedances. Unless a piezo goes through a preamp internal to the instrument, I like to connect them through a buffer that's greater than 2Mohm. 10M is not too much in my view for a piezo on any instrument, especially a bass. An interesting test of your looper's ability to drive a cable, John, but don't give up on the value of using high quality, lower capacitance cables for audio performance just yet.
Best 120 quid I've spent in my 45 years of guitar playing - 2 top quality cables and a boss tuner pedal. Bear in mind I've been using the same resoldered and resoldered 2 leads forever. Now I know how things SHOULD sound, no crackle, hiss etc. I've been on a pointless boutique drive pedal chase of late and driving myself and band crazy. Felt far more satisfying to feel my set up was solid and in tune.
After over 50 years of playing and performing, the WORST cable I've owned was a very expensive Monster Cables cable. It didn't break, but was VERY microphonic, and produced quite noticeable noise when dragged around the stage (yes, even just a little bit). However, I always try to use the shortest cable I can comfortably get away with when performing. I keep a 6', a 10' and a 20' cable in each of my electric cases, and the same in each of my wife's acoustic cases. However, I do this more because of stage clutter, and have found that, unless the cable is really long, they all work fine. I've found that decent cables can be had for $8-$12 from Amazon, Monoprice, etc. I have not had failures from them in MANY years! My only suggestion is to put some extra heat-shrink over the ends and a couple of inches onto the cable itself. This works great to spread stress out on the cable, and help keep stress off of the connections. This has an added bonus of being able to identify your cables at the end of a show with a bigger band. Heat-shrink comes in many colors, so choose a color for yourself, and use that for all your cables (and even mic stands and other items).
Someone left a n 11ft VoVox guitar cable at a venue I do sound at . I tried to find an owner but no one claimed it so I took it home . I discovered its cost was $172 Canadian . I spent a bunch of time comparing it to an Elixir 10ft that was around $50 and a nice fancy Fender 20ft cable about $50 , and a George L's 20ft ( the George L's is really low capacitance cable thus it is noticeably brighter ) I'm a noodler , guitar solos are my enjoyment so this may not apply to rhythm guitar type players . The VoVox cable after much comparing , my right hand played more fluently because the signal had a bit more response . The other cables , my right hand was attacking the strings more to get the tone out but the VoVox you just play more fluently .
I have found over the year that cheap cables with sometimes pickup radio interference. On occasion I've listened to music in background thats not even in my house. LoL. Thanks for vid.
Don't thank him for the vid! It was 100% wrong! You just admitted yourself that cables make a difference. Why would you thank him for making a video where he says cables make no difference. Insanity!
Expensive leads are generally just more robust I find. Also depends on surrounding EMF/local noise if you have any. Expensive leads may be better at keeping such noise at bay.
The really cheap and nasty ones I call 'popcorn' cables... turn on a bit of high gain and manipulate the cable, twist it around and manipulate it, if it's rough enough you'll hear all manner or popping and clicking.. that to me is the main difference.
I have the utmost respect for people whose opinions change due to contrary evidence. Thanks for being That Guy! I also agree, though, that a better quality cable is likely to last longer than a cheaply made cable.
I did notice difference between guitar leads , many many years ago . I used the curly type of cable , like telephones used to have , when I bought a "good quality" straight cable . The latter had more high end , I did not like that , went back to the old one . Never bought an expensive cable again . One thing I do watch out for is the length of the cable , keeping it short , no longer as needed .The longer the cable , the more resistance hence loss/change of signal reaching the amp . I've bought 20 ft cheap cables and a couple of plugs , cut the cable in half to make two short cables out of one . A matter of taste : I do not like the guitar sound ( processor set on "vintage" , dry or wet ) : there is a nasty edge at the high end and the attack sounds awful . I.m.o. it is proven yet again a digital processor still cannot capture the character of a tube amp .
Imo, the actual cable section doesnt really matter all that much. I think the connector, and the secure connection (soldering), are where there may be issues. I bought a bucket of cables at a garage sale because the guy said they were “junk cables” that he had problems with. I spent about ten minutes on each one cleaning the dirt/corrosion off of them, and then i took them apart a tidied up the solder connections. Now i have 15 or so 10ft+ cables that are just as good as my high dollar cables. All for $5.
Not a great comparison because the output of the looper pedal is the equivalent of a buffered signal, whereas a guitar cable running direct from the guitar has the chance tom influence the unbuffered signal. Also, the test is the equivalent to playinhg guitar standing absolutely still - in my experience poor quality leads often get noisy when you are moving around whilst playing. That said, I don’t believe that cables like these would make much difference to the sound unless they were physically damaged.
I think durability and reliability are more the issue really, but possibly electronic or microphonic noise from cables that are improperly shielded as well. Also, I'd be interested to maybe see a sound spectrum or something on cables that have been made with the worst quality Chinese materials, such as copper that has the absolute minimum amount of real copper mixed in with to allow it to conduct, etc.
I think you should have tested the microphonic properties of the leads too. I have noticed some do make noises when you move them around. Also you may want to check the leads using a multi meter for resistance and that kind of thing.
Fun cable test but even overlaying the waveforms might have revealed more information, since we don't have scopes or such. In the end guitar cables like other gear is what the player enjoys most given all things being equal. If we can't hear a difference and someone else can, then we will buy different gear. My Lekato wireless has been fine for home use for a few years now, and cheap enough it's easy to replace. But I always keep a cheap cable for backup.
TBF the biggest problem with modern leads is robustness, most manufacturing techniques avoid microphonic problems, as long as they're using decent OFC copper... Cheap moulded plugs are a bigger issue, and plain old dirty connections - jacks take a lot of physical punishment, and can often be found living in a tangled up snake nest on a dirty floor 😉 Even as a hospital equipment engineer, many controlers, and actuators are on IP68 1/4" phone jacks - tightly sealed with 'O' rings: but the female recepticle is a plastic box held by three solder tags onto a PCB, and nothing more! Possibly the physically weakest possible connection... I've found many audio components are the same (not so much the guitars themselves, but just about everything else)
Hi John, interesting comparison. Perhaps playing live would show up any shortcomings, I still think a reasonable quality cable is the safest bet! Cheers Stephen from Scotland
It might have been interesting to perform a "wiggle test" manipulating the cable for microphonic effects. As another user has pointed out, the looper output impedance might react with the cable in different manner to the pickup. The RLC affects the resonance (frequency peaks/troughs) of the pickup, cable and amplifier input network.
As a live player and loud rehearsals , I use always decent quality cables, with gain and volume they do not crackle / pop and hiss. I hvae tried those cheap ones amd the noise was awfull, sure it caused oodles of feedback, swapped back over to the Fender £15 one and all ythat filth was not there. However, if I'm having a fiddle at home at a much lower volume any lead is just about useable.
I know it may be difficult to record, but try playing with your guitar through your amp, not your DAW, and compare the freebie cable against the better quality one, and play some chords with a bit of overdrive. I noticed quite an improvemnet when I did this when I first started playing. You don't need to use an expensive cable either, just something that's a step up from the cheap one.
Erm... I was playing through an amp. I was using the recording output of the BluGuitar Amp1. It's a solid state/valve hybrid 100W amp. No vst amp sims used in this video.
@@JRobsonGuitar Oh sorry, my bad, didn't realise. I'm into hi-fi as well as guitars, and discussions about cables are just as much of a minefield in that world too! All I can say is that from experience in both cases, when I've upgraded from thin, cheap cables to something better quality I've noticed an improvement. Saying that, when I've tried different higher quality cables I've never really noticed any difference. The point I was making was that if you give the cables more work to do, you might notice a difference then. Cheers
I cant say Im surprised by your test John as Ive long held the opinion that cheap small pots and thin wires connecting them to a guitars pickups sound identical to cloth covered push back wires connected to full sized CTS pots, the only difference is that I wouldnt expect them to last as long as the more expensive components, this is the reason that while I will almost certainly change the pups in a budget priced guitar I will only replace the pots and wiring if I need to due to a component not working as it should, or to my liking.
The tone was fine for me. My experience with cheap cables is cracking & popping, especially if you move around. It's the jacks and solder joints are more of a problem than the actual cable. As you say John, they get worse over time. Was that a new one you had there?
Why didn't you try the cordless radio devices, it's either radio or Bluetooth connected, transmitter on the guitar and receiver on the amp. I'm convinced they give a better sound than any cable. I can see why they might not be ideal for a gig, but for practice or playing at home they are great, rechargeable also last 3 - 5 hours. Id be interested to see what you think of them if you haven't already covered them.
I wouldn't go abseiling using the cheaper cables, the moulded on ends tend to fall off after a few decades. Driving the cable's LCR with a low output impedance pedal is not the same as driving it with a high impedance pickup into a high impedance amp input. Different cables will produce different results, although a FFT would probably be more accurate than ones ear.. All cables, particularly single cored with shield will act as a capacitive microphone, producing noise and crackles when moved. Twin core shielded will be less of a problem in that respect. If those twin cores can be balanced it would be even better (on a guitar? LP Studio originally had them). Other than that, any bit of wire will be louder than none.
i like the patch cable. it sort of added a bit of 'raunch' and made you play a better solo. of course you need to be very close to your amp and not run about the stage
Ummm. Hi man. You kinda overlooked some stuff. What affects the tone audibly is cable capacitance. The more you have, will progressively dull the top end of a cable as a function of length. Most pedals will have a lo-z output (as will active pickups) and these cause the capacitance to be shifted-up out of general hearing range. Also, drive adds high harmonics which would mask some of the top end response differences. If you got a "bad" cable of the same length (> 2-3m) as a "good" one, direct from a passive pickup - you would defo hear the difference. The shortest cable (ie. Patch) is the closest to "transparent" you can get. When you get to the "good" cables, there's a lot of Bee Ess from people who don't understand perception bias. IME, if the effect isn't obvious, forget about it, and buy the cheaper cable, just make sure the shielding/construction are good. There's more, but this is a YT comment, so Im just waving the flag.
I think reliability/longevity is probably the main issue here, though the 'pro' lead does seem to transmit slightly less mids and more top than the others, if push comes to shove, but it's pretty much as broad as it's long!
what does make a difference is the length oif the lead.. the longer the lead the greater the capacitance, thus with long leads you will see the treble rolling off..
It's all horses for courses. If you're just sitting at home noodling away, the cable that was free with your latest addition to the collection ("did I say latest? No, dear, I've had that one for ages, but it was in a case in the loft, and I brought it down for a change of pace. What are you doing with that rolling pin?") is going to last a good while. If you're regularly gigging, there's a good chance the 6 foot cable that was fine at home is no good to you, so you need 10-12 feet (possibly more, depending how much space you have to move in) to go to your pedals, and - depending on your setup - another couple of those for the effects loop. And those are - with the best will in the world - going to twist and get trodden on, especially if you, or one of the other guys in the band is doing Angus Young impressions and getting your 10,000 steps in during the set. So in the latter scenario, what you want from the cables is just to be... better made. The wires that carry the signal should hopefully be better protected, and the connectors soldered and maybe heat-shrink-tubing-ed more securely so that the wear takes longer to cause enough damage to be audible.
Hi John, I'm sure there would be a difference, if you examined the track wave patterns, but I can't hear any difference. My son is a jazz bass player and he always uses a "reasonable" quality cable. He can't afford to have cable crackle, when playing live. Side question: Wireless? I'm interested in trying wireless. The Mrs is always complaining that my cables are messy (and a trip hazzard).
for what its worth, i saw an interview with trey anastasio [guitarist for the band phish] and he said that he compared high quality cables [i believe George L brand] to other cables and he said that there definitely was a difference in audio quality. so he uses George L's.
In my tests, Cables/Leads do make some difference to tone. I think the best way to quantify the difference is to record a loop, and perform a Null Test using the different pieces of gear. The results will be obvious.
I don't think it's necessarily a tone thing, I think it's a confidence thing. I have used the same two cables going from guitar to board and board to amp for certainly 15 if not closer to 20 years, I coil them carefully and look after them. My bandmate jams his cables into the case and they break. Buy the best you can afford and look after them.
Very Cool, Thankyou John. I have had a couple of failures from a "Quality" Cable brand but have only had awesome sound and reliability from my budget Artist Guitars Cables, They Rock. All the Best, Cheers.
Isolate the *high* frequencies and listen. The problem with "cheap" cables is higher capacitance than "good" cables, making the very, very top end roll off. A "short" cheap cable can have as much capacitance as a "very long" expensive one. 🤷♂️ A telecaster into a JC will probably demonstrate the effect best. 😁
It depends how they behave when you move around. My wife had all kinds of problems with crackling with a cheap lead, just sitting playing the guitar, occasionally turning a little. Thought it might be the input, but she tried one of my leads and the problem disappeared
Haul your rig to practice or play a dozen or so times: One end or the other will get a bit fiddly on the cheap one. You pay much more for reliability than sound. BTW, why didn't you add the wireless to the comparison, or the office-chair-wheels enduro, or a Dougal chew toy party?
Good test Sir. I could never hear the difference, even though I can prove differences with my Oscilloscope. Over 6 meters, the capacitance starts affecting frequency in the range that can be heard. A better quality cable is far more durable in daily use. As a player, I prefer cables that are very limber, and a lot of the cheap ones stay kinked up and catch on things.
Its all a bit like discusing which rusty old lawn mower cuts the grass best.. if the blade is sharp it cuts the grass ... if blade is dull.... it cuts the grass
I make my own from eBay bought cables and jacks But also like the fender tweed cables To me it’s night and day , good vs poor quality But then I’ve never ever played through a computer So it’s possibly circumstantial , Horses for courses John 👍🏻
My feeling is that a lot of the ‘quality’ gear is really just marketing hype. There might be some difference, but that’s nothing compared to slight variation in playing technique, environmental issues like heat, wet hands etc etc. Expensive stuff might last longer, but - given accidents etc - that also is a question of how you handle your gear.
This is a completely wrong approach! The effect of the cable is caused mainly by its capacitance and its influence on the pickup signal (the additional capacitance will lower the resonant peak and resonance frequency of the pickup). If you are using a looper as a source this effect is mostly lost, as the looper will have a low impedance output buffer.
Is there a difference between $10 cable and $40 cable. IMO, yes. But I’ve not noticed a difference between $40 cable and $100 cable. I buy “good/better” but not the top end. I’ve found they last equally long too. I went thru 10 monster cable replacements. Guitar Center eventually wouldn’t replace it as my receipt was so worn they thought I was trying to rip them off. Not sure why, assumed they get credit back from manufacturer regardless.
Hate to break it to you but your test is flawed before the 3:30 min mark. This is a fine test if you are running a buffered path into your rig, but anyone that cares about tone and the interaction of the guitar pickups directly in to a tube amp will have a different experience where capacitance does have a clear impact on the sound. You are also using a recorded signal into an fairly low quality amp (in comparison to boutique tube gear). Granted the differences won't matter to many people, but if you are plugging a D'Pergo into a Trainwreck I can assure you there is a difference between Evidence Audio Lyric HG cables and what Monster makes. Your test is a good idea for the common beginner player who isn't playing through high end gear to begin with though. The main deciding factor for those should be build quality, and ironically the best sounding cable - the Lyric HG, is also far more prone to break than a Whirlwind Leader cable due to the solid core construction.
This "test" was on the low output impedance of a pedal. Connecting the leads to a guitar pickup will produce completely different results. That's just one reason (out of many) that this "test" is nothing more than an utter joke. A complete waste of time and effort.
I play with a wireless unit... carry a few cords with me in case of issues... I think that the "tone" of my guitar is less effected by using a wireless... but that is just my personal opinion.
HI John. Not hearing any difference on my laptop, but stand on the cables a couple of dozen times, see how they hold up then, will there be a difference, i dont know. but my cables get "stood on" quite frequently.
The quality of a cable is definitely measured by how well it’s built and how long it lasts. When working properly, a cheap cable should sound exactly the same as an expensive one. Tone shaping should only be a product of the cable length. As far as I understand it.
Put a fish tank in the room, then you would see or hear, cable length ect, my pro leads are as thick as your thumb, yes at home just go for a quality lead, though now I am trying the radio ones LEKATO, cheap as chips and I am impressed, depends on how long they last, for home use cannot fault them £40
I didn't. I recorded the solo into a looper pedal with a high quality cable. Then I connected the looper pedal to the amp with a variety of cables, including the patch cable. I did explain this in the video.
I'd stick with your original opinion. Too many unknowns in your experiment to get a good assessment. For example I'd expect the output level from your looper to be much higher than the guitar itself, so noise would be much less of a problem. Also the quality cables might have better shielding, but that would only become audibly noticeable as you moved around. I imagine in your experiment the cables were probably stationary?
Head above the parapet time... I thought the patch cable sounded better than the other two, both in the mix and in the raw solo, John. I didn't look to see which cable you were using in the mix to avoid any expectation bias. Does anyone agree with me - or am I gonna be shot down in flames? ;) Great thought provoking stuff, as always!
I couldn't really hear a difference. What I do know is that home playing my Zvive wireless sounds different to my back-up cable, but I doubt you would hear it in a mix.
I wonder if any audiophile HiFi freaks have been watching this. There, the different prices to be paid are from budget to stratospheric, and I mean as in thousands of multiples of £s. There’s definitely something to be said for using quality jack plugs and connectors, after all, that’s where the mechanical forces will have the most effect, but selling oxygen free, directional copper conductors as some kind of “magic” ingredient which only they will unlock those hidden microtones appears to have been shown up for the snake oil it is by your rather thorough comparisons.
Would've been interesting to have added a wireless guitar system to the test Also might've been a truer test if you'd recorded the guitar directly into Reaper rather than going via the looper
Cheap leads are a waste of money in my opinion, they don’t sound any different but they certainly last a lot longer.Van Damme are the ones I recommend.And I always make my own cables up .
There's not a huge difference... SPEAKERS make the biggest difference. Then Amp head then guitar especially strings . However the most important thing is the PLAYER 2nd is the PLAYER 3rd the PLAYER... remember Eddie Van Halen played a Reject Guitar body reject neck chisel the body for pickups... Cheers 🍻🥃🥃 🎸🎵🎶
The only thing that a "cheap cable" will do is if you have intermittent connections that cause the circuit to become disconnected, even if only momentarily. How "good" or "crappy" your cable is makes NO DIFFERENCE in the sound. None. It will sound exactly the same. I don't care what kind of "audiophile" you purport to be. The ONLY difference there could possibly be would be if you're moving around that might cause a crappy able to have intermittent disconnections. I just don't understand why people think a cable can "improve" the sound!
Meh. Any average cable is good for the audience and for the guitarist. Matteo Mancuso is good enough on the a noname cable. You can solder the components urself at home too: good. I did it several times, and most of the oldschool guys.
I think you have a big hole in your test, the lead will only make a difference from the guitar as it's an analogue signal, as soon as you as you record it or stick it into a looper is now a digital signal and the cable will not really change with cables.
no difference what so ever ... I have tons of cables and multiple qualities since over 30 years and quite frankly I do not ear any difference between all of them . Some are more resistant/strong obviously but sound wise there are no difference at all ... and that's exactly the same with my home cinema installation ... it is because of my home cinema installation that I do not buy anymore very expensive cables neither on HiFi nor on home studio ... not the cheapest but the middle ones are fine enough. The studio / recording pros will tell you the contrary for sure ...
In a former life I was an AV technician. I made many hundreds of cables for many different bits of equipment.
Here's what makes the difference:
1. CABLE made with multistranded, fine gauge copper that doesn't fracture until it has been bent many times. Insulation made from flexible plastic that doesn't easily split or crack when the going gets tough or the weather gets cold. Coaxial screening that provides effective shielding from external electrical noise (copper braid, sometimes with an additional carbon-loaded plastic screen). Screen and shield shouldn't move relative to each other or you may get microphonic noise.
2. CONNECTORS made from good quality materials that won't break when trodden on. Terminals that are easily soldered. Strain relief to make sure that bending stress is not concentrated in a tiny length of cable.
3. HUMAN/MACHINE that knows what it is doing to join the parts together. Solder is mostly best. Crimps can work if they are well designed and aren't exposed to water.
1, 2, 3 don't come cheap. But, as always, there is the law of diminishing returns. If in doubt, make your own - it's not hard.
Of course, if you have money to burn you can use conductors made with 100% oxygen-free silver; polymer insulation as used in SpaceX Starship; outer braid hand-woven in your own tartan using finest japanese silk. Your connectors can be milled from billets of gold plated platinum and the whole assembly put together by zen cable masters with 60 years of training. They won't sound any better but you will have ultimate bragging rights.
One hundred percent true! I used to make my own brand of cables from 1980-1993. And I can attest that it's the quality of the cable, the connecters and the people who put them together that make the difference.
It's also worth noting that the best cables reduce the need for landfill. I still have some of my own leftover cables and they are still going strong.
Yes all true, I used to make adaptor cables to suit the purpose ,but now there are adaptors for just about everything AV and PC. Boy we seen some 1/4" Jack plug "VARIATIONS" (Being kind here) over the years
Agreed, 40 years I learnt to be an old fashioned Orchestral Strings, and Brass Musical Instrument Technician... After two years at College in Edinburgh, I worked for Boosey and Hawkes, London. Still with acoustics... Much later I did my C&G electronics, and even later became a Specialist NHS Electro-mechanical Engineer...
PS I already knew how to do electrical solder, I was taught to solder cables by my father ex WWII RAF AG/Sigs and an apprentice Scientific Instrument Maker with STC before he decided he get involved in the little spot of bother over the channel.
It was apparently a little difficult to arrange an electronics tech. to visit a Wellington at 1000' hunting for U-boats over the N. Atlantic.
I did in fact aged 14, figure out how to make my first guitar sound bigger home made pickups from telephone speaker bits, and the scrap Local Hospital radio amplifier (I also quickly learnt not to touch HT valve top caps 😂)
Thanks for the info , very interesting combination of acoustic instruments and then into electronics side of things (Reminds me of Les Paul experimenting with Electronics,) I've messed around with electronics and Bass guitars for years on and off (built three) all turned out playable and can gig with. @@iandeare1
I suggest that the test would be most valid with the leads connected directly to passive pickups on a guitar. Since passive guitar pickups are inductors and cables are condensers (capacitors), they create a "2nd order low pass filter" as engineers call it. When you change the cable capacitance, you shift the resonant frequency around. In contrast, the looper pedal will have a fixed low resistance output impedance which will minimize the sonic differences between cables as well as the susceptibility to noise.
Agree with all you've said. I'd like to add that once the cable is being driven from passive guitar pickups, the test would best be done without amp gain. Overdriving the amp generates high(er) frequencies downstream from the cable that will mask the relative presence or absence of highs in the clean guitar signal.
Like with most things music related - I think it’s usually worth avoiding the cheapest option but you don’t have to go for a premium brand to get a good sound and better reliability.
I never noticed any sound differences in all the cables I have used through the years, that being said, I found that there is a big difference in how long cables last and what they can endure.
i used to go thru 5 cables a year. from guitar shops. bout 4 years ago i got d-addario american stage series cables. don't break. think they have warrantee to replace if they ever break
@@commentfreely5443 5 cables a year means that you bought cheap junk.
A passive signal from a guitar without any pedals or boost will start to drop DB after ten feet, the longer it is, the more the drop.
The problem is that you tried to look for difference from a low impedance source. The cable quality is embodied in its capacitance and it matters only connecting guitar passive circuits ( pickup when volume and tone pots are fully up). The cable capacitance between 150 pF to 600pF much larger than the internal capacitance of the pup and creates resonant LC with that so shifting the resonant frequency down in case of long and cheap cables , making the sound muddy. Good cables have lower capacitance per length ( pF / m) let more treble to pass and the smart way is playing with as short cable as possible to the first active ( low impedance output) element.
It gets even worse when you turn down the guitar's volume control, the control's resistance is then in series with the signal and the cable capacitance has even more of an effect in dulling the tone. A "treble bleed" capacitor between the volume's signal terminal and wiper helps, but stull won't give a flat response at lower volume for reasons, one being different capacitances of different cables.
Hi John,the output of the looper is a very low impedance i think so it wouldn’t be as affected by the cable capacitance as a high impedance guitar pickup would. Does that have a bearing on the test do you think? I would be interested to know if anybody could clear this up for me,cheers for your great content,Chris H.
Cables interact with the resistance/capacitance/inductance of the pickup and alter the "resonance" of the system (the pickup and lead) and thereby the frequencies of the peaks/troughs are moved.
Yep. It wasn't an accurate test. Need to try directly from a real non-active pickup (because active ones might have a low output impedance too, I don't know.)
Exactly. Study Transmission Line theory and impedance mismatch losses to get the EE mathematical explanation. 😊
from one cable end to the other, there are only 2 wires inside the sleeve. no "sound" ever goes from your guitar to your amp. what you hear coming out of the speaker, is the amps interpretation of a signal that your pick ups send to the input jack. that's all it is. as long as you have continuity, all cables will sound the same as long as they are the same length. that said, i save about 60% of the cost of cables by making my own. i buy bulk lengths of quality cable, and i keep cleaning and re using the same ends. when my buddies have a cable they're going to throw away, i try to ask for it, so i can scavenge the ends. i have a good soldering station, and i heat shrink the solder lugs, as well as the outer jacket to the cable end. my home made cables are as good as any available, but far less than half the cost. each time i make 2 cables, it takes about 23 minutes to set up the soldering station, make 2 cables, then put everything away.
Ooh, "all cables sound the same as long as they are the same length" is SO NOT true. For many reasons (eg resistance, capacitance, inductance, metal purity, sheathing material and method etc).
@@digitalchris6681 if you watched the video, you heard for yourself and saw the digital signature. you still don't believe your eyes and ears, and science? you aren't going to find a cable that, when functioning properly - displays a degradation of sound quality that is discernable with your ear, in sweetwater or guitar center's inventory. the aspects you mention only need to reach an acceptable threshold to produce good results. once you reach that point, improving any of those aspects will not result in better sound. that's actual and factual. feel free to post the url to your video proving me wrong. i'll be here.
@@digitalchris6681 Oooh, spot the bloke who's paid over the odds for a snake oil guitar lead 🙄😆🎶
@@JammyGit Not me, I paid £5.50 for a 10' Fender. And yes, it sounds noticeably different (better) than the unbranded one I got on Amazon.
@@digitalchris6681Same here mate. I bought my cables from a place called Visio sound about 7 or 8 years ago for about £5 - £6 each. I've still got them and they're still going strong.
Sorry John, not sure that's a completely valid test, though it does suggest the differences aren't as big as people expect. Using your looper pedal doesn't necessarily give the same output as a guitar. It has a low impedance output, so it would only be the same if you have a buffer circuit built into your guitar (most of us don't).
The usual difference in quality cables is that they have lower capacitance. With the low impedance output you get from an electronic device the capacitance makes bugger all difference. With a guitar output (anywhere from 3k to 20k, depending on the pickups selected) the cable capacitance forms a low pass filter which can be enough to noticeably remove some high end. Incidentally, this is one reason why active pickups are designed to have a 10k output impedance each - otherwise the tone controls on the guitar wouldn't work!
Add to that that it's not a clean signal we're listening to but overdriven, thus adding back any lost highs. Plus your best cable is the longest, taking away some of the advantage of its lower capacitance (per metre).
For me, the differences are reliability of connection and some cheap cables actually generate a small signal when you move them - kind of microphonic
It was completely invalid. The guy has no clue what he is talking about. He thinks he's making the test "scientific" and yet he doesn't even connect the cable to his guitar.
Totally agree with your findings John.... you pay for build quality, I use decent mid price leads. But length of cable definitely has an effect. Longer cables have more resistance so you start to lose top end as the length increases. So keeping to no more than 3m is my rule. Not a problem at home.
2 things.
1. you need to evaluate the guitar+cable directly, and not the recording in the pedals (impedance and all that stuff). (the price of a cable has little to do with its quality)
2. It is almost impossible to hear anything through any distortion effect.
Holding a phone up to a single-coil pickup and playing test sounds out of it would be a way to get reproducible signals from an output that is electrically like a guitar pickup. The sound would be distorted since guitar pickups aren't designed for that purpose, but any differences caused by cables would be more noticeable than with a low-impedance looper-pedal output.
Otherwise, the biggest differences with cables are going to be a function of how well they mate with the jacks on a guitar and amplifier. While cable capacitance might sometimes color a guitar's sound slightly, especially when using a long cable with a guitar that's set for about half volume, the main issue is whether the cable will work reliably with one's other equipment. A well-designed jack should be able to give good results with even a rather crummy plug, and even a crummy jack may work fine with a sufficiently good plug, but if one's equipment has crummy jacks one may get poor results unless one uses good plugs.
Whirlwind 'The Leader'. I've had mine for decades. Best leads on the planet, and you won't ever need to replace them.
Yes, it's just a cable for relatively low frequency (compared to, say, RF), low current signal, if it conducts electricity and is shielded it will work and there will be no significant loss of signal. The difference between a good and a bad cable is not how they work when new, it's how long they work properly. The cheapest ones are ok for light home use but at a training room or expcially on gigs they would not be reliable.
My favorite cable is Cordial cable with Neutrik plugs sold at Thomann (or sometimes I have bought the components separately and made my own but it's really not cheaper), good quality at a reasonable price. The Neutrik plugs have the best mechanical construction and strain relief I have seen, even many "high end" leads have inferior plugs.
FYI, My studio is a block away from 3 radio transmission towers. The cables that have the least RF interference are the one I make myself. Either Mogami or Canare cable and Neutrik ends. Even better than some very expensive, "boutique" ones that retailed well over $100.
Try to keep your cables under 20 feet long or risk them turning into an antenna.
Using a looper pedal doesn't allow for a proper test. A guitar pickup is mostly resistive and inductive, while a pedal is a low impedance device. A guitar cord is mostly a capacitive element which will heavily interact with a guitar but will effectively not interact with a pedal. That's why you couldn't hear a difference. A cheap cord has a high capacitance, a long cord has a higher capacitance than a short cord. High capacitance kills high frequency, making the guitar sound dark. That's why guitar players will sometimes use a specific cord to shape the tone of their guitar. It's rumored that Jimi Hendrix used a 40 foot cord to shape his sound. If you try the rest again with a guitar, I'm certain that you'll hear a difference.
There could be a greater difference on longer cables between a thin and cheap and a quality cable with thicker copper wire (not necessary to be the most expensive).
Then it‘s also about little loss of signal everywhere in the chain wich will add up. Starting with pots and caps, the output jack, the pedals, the amp input jack and such. Better to spend 20 bucks more for a good cable, wich (as John already mentioned) will also last longer.
From my experience: I did hear a difference between the curled ultra cheap 3m „snake cable“ (around 2€) and the 3m /60€ „Monster Cable“. Some treble and lows loss. I compared the expensive one with a (few years ago 7,50€) 3m from Fender, and could not hear a difference (home noodling). So I sold the expensive one and bought 2 more Fender cables and a cheap overdrive. 😊
I've been using a couple of those "electric guitar accompanying" cables on my pedal board- I'm short 2 patch cables. They work fine. Like any cable, don't tread on them or kick them around and they are okay. I didn't hear even the tiniest bit of difference among the 3 cables. Isn't mythbusting fun?
Probably more critical at gig volumes, especially if there is a longer cable run. Good video
John, what you've done by recording your guitar into a looper and then running the test through three different cables is to buffer your guitar's signal from the cables' impacts. In your attempt to remove variables from this test you've inadvertently isolated much more than just performance variations.
A magnetic guitar pickup has a high and complex impedance. It's principally though not entirely a series inductance with some series resistance and a small parallel capacitance. This complexity and its high impedance makes its signal very susceptible to filtering by whatever the impedance is of the load it sees. Just whatever volume and tone controls are wired to the pickup within the guitar changes the frequency balance of the signal, to some degree even when those controls are turned fully up.
The input impedance of a guitar amp, which can be thought of as a resistance, will also change the sound by filtering high frequencies to varying degrees, with low input resistances having the biggest impact down to almost none with a 1M ohm input. This is due to the inductance-resistance network (in simple terms) formed by the pickup to amp input connection.
Adding a cable's parallel capacitance further reduces high frequencies, as does a series inductance which is a feature of curly cords. That may be either good or bad, depending on what you want out of your guitar sound. Brian May famously uses a curly cord as part of the sound he wants from his rig.
On the other hand, when you used your looper recording, you isolated your guitar's complex impedance from any imacts of the cables. The looper's output impedance will be almost entirely resistive, so very simple. It will also be very much lower than your guitar's output: probably something measuring between one hundred to several hundred ohms. An output like that can drive quite a length of crappy, highly capacitive cable with little or no impact within the frequencies coming out of a magnetic pickup.
This is why the quality of cable between your guitar and the first buffering circuit it meets is so important.
Incidentally, piezo pickups, being primarily series capacitance rather than inductance, have a similar though quite different need for quality connections into high impedances. Unless a piezo goes through a preamp internal to the instrument, I like to connect them through a buffer that's greater than 2Mohm. 10M is not too much in my view for a piezo on any instrument, especially a bass.
An interesting test of your looper's ability to drive a cable, John, but don't give up on the value of using high quality, lower capacitance cables for audio performance just yet.
Best 120 quid I've spent in my 45 years of guitar playing - 2 top quality cables and a boss tuner pedal. Bear in mind I've been using the same resoldered and resoldered 2 leads forever. Now I know how things SHOULD sound, no crackle, hiss etc. I've been on a pointless boutique drive pedal chase of late and driving myself and band crazy. Felt far more satisfying to feel my set up was solid and in tune.
After over 50 years of playing and performing, the WORST cable I've owned was a very expensive Monster Cables cable. It didn't break, but was VERY microphonic, and produced quite noticeable noise when dragged around the stage (yes, even just a little bit).
However, I always try to use the shortest cable I can comfortably get away with when performing. I keep a 6', a 10' and a 20' cable in each of my electric cases, and the same in each of my wife's acoustic cases. However, I do this more because of stage clutter, and have found that, unless the cable is really long, they all work fine.
I've found that decent cables can be had for $8-$12 from Amazon, Monoprice, etc.
I have not had failures from them in MANY years!
My only suggestion is to put some extra heat-shrink over the ends and a couple of inches onto the cable itself. This works great to spread stress out on the cable, and help keep stress off of the connections. This has an added bonus of being able to identify your cables at the end of a show with a bigger band. Heat-shrink comes in many colors, so choose a color for yourself, and use that for all your cables (and even mic stands and other items).
Someone left a n 11ft VoVox guitar cable at a venue I do sound at . I tried to find an owner
but no one claimed it so I took it home . I discovered its cost was $172 Canadian . I spent a bunch
of time comparing it to an Elixir 10ft that was around $50 and a nice fancy Fender 20ft cable about $50 ,
and a George L's 20ft ( the George L's is really low capacitance cable thus it is noticeably brighter )
I'm a noodler , guitar solos are my enjoyment so this may not apply to rhythm guitar type players .
The VoVox cable after much comparing , my right hand played more fluently because the signal
had a bit more response . The other cables , my right hand was attacking the strings more to get the
tone out but the VoVox you just play more fluently .
I have found over the year that cheap cables with sometimes pickup radio interference. On occasion I've listened to music in background thats not even in my house. LoL. Thanks for vid.
Don't thank him for the vid! It was 100% wrong! You just admitted yourself that cables make a difference. Why would you thank him for making a video where he says cables make no difference. Insanity!
Expensive leads are generally just more robust I find. Also depends on surrounding EMF/local noise if you have any. Expensive leads may be better at keeping such noise at bay.
With the sound gate always on. Testing the cables's capacitances approaches scientific. Cheers.
The really cheap and nasty ones I call 'popcorn' cables... turn on a bit of high gain and manipulate the cable, twist it around and manipulate it, if it's rough enough you'll hear all manner or popping and clicking.. that to me is the main difference.
I have the utmost respect for people whose opinions change due to contrary evidence. Thanks for being That Guy! I also agree, though, that a better quality cable is likely to last longer than a cheaply made cable.
I did notice difference between guitar leads , many many years ago . I used the curly type of cable , like telephones used to have , when I bought a "good quality" straight cable . The latter had more high end , I did not like that , went back to the old one . Never bought an expensive cable again . One thing I do watch out for is the length of the cable , keeping it short , no longer as needed .The longer the cable , the more resistance hence loss/change of signal reaching the amp . I've bought 20 ft cheap cables and a couple of plugs , cut the cable in half to make two short cables out of one .
A matter of taste : I do not like the guitar sound ( processor set on "vintage" , dry or wet ) : there is a nasty edge at the high end and the attack sounds awful . I.m.o. it is proven yet again a digital processor still cannot capture the character of a tube amp .
Imo, the actual cable section doesnt really matter all that much. I think the connector, and the secure connection (soldering), are where there may be issues. I bought a bucket of cables at a garage sale because the guy said they were “junk cables” that he had problems with. I spent about ten minutes on each one cleaning the dirt/corrosion off of them, and then i took them apart a tidied up the solder connections. Now i have 15 or so 10ft+ cables that are just as good as my high dollar cables. All for $5.
Not a great comparison because the output of the looper pedal is the equivalent of a buffered signal, whereas a guitar cable running direct from the guitar has the chance tom influence the unbuffered signal. Also, the test is the equivalent to playinhg guitar standing absolutely still - in my experience poor quality leads often get noisy when you are moving around whilst playing. That said, I don’t believe that cables like these would make much difference to the sound unless they were physically damaged.
I think durability and reliability are more the issue really, but possibly electronic or microphonic noise from cables that are improperly shielded as well. Also, I'd be interested to maybe see a sound spectrum or something on cables that have been made with the worst quality Chinese materials, such as copper that has the absolute minimum amount of real copper mixed in with to allow it to conduct, etc.
I think you should have tested the microphonic properties of the leads too. I have noticed some do make noises when you move them around. Also you may want to check the leads using a multi meter for resistance and that kind of thing.
Fun cable test but even overlaying the waveforms might have revealed more information, since we don't have scopes or such. In the end guitar cables like other gear is what the player enjoys most given all things being equal. If we can't hear a difference and someone else can, then we will buy different gear. My Lekato wireless has been fine for home use for a few years now, and cheap enough it's easy to replace. But I always keep a cheap cable for backup.
Ooh, you opened up a canna worms! The innernets are a-gonna roast you! Aagghhh....
TBF the biggest problem with modern leads is robustness, most manufacturing techniques avoid microphonic problems, as long as they're using decent OFC copper...
Cheap moulded plugs are a bigger issue, and plain old dirty connections - jacks take a lot of physical punishment, and can often be found living in a tangled up snake nest on a dirty floor 😉
Even as a hospital equipment engineer, many controlers, and actuators are on IP68 1/4" phone jacks - tightly sealed with 'O' rings: but the female recepticle is a plastic box held by three solder tags onto a PCB, and nothing more! Possibly the physically weakest possible connection... I've found many audio components are the same (not so much the guitars themselves, but just about everything else)
Hi John, interesting comparison. Perhaps playing live would show up any shortcomings, I still think a reasonable quality cable is the safest bet! Cheers Stephen from Scotland
It might have been interesting to perform a "wiggle test" manipulating the cable for microphonic effects. As another user has pointed out, the looper output impedance might react with the cable in different manner to the pickup. The RLC affects the resonance (frequency peaks/troughs) of the pickup, cable and amplifier input network.
As a live player and loud rehearsals , I use always decent quality cables, with gain and volume they do not crackle / pop and hiss. I hvae tried those cheap ones amd the noise was awfull, sure it caused oodles of feedback, swapped back over to the Fender £15 one and all ythat filth was not there.
However, if I'm having a fiddle at home at a much lower volume any lead is just about useable.
I know it may be difficult to record, but try playing with your guitar through your amp, not your DAW, and compare the freebie cable against the better quality one, and play some chords with a bit of overdrive. I noticed quite an improvemnet when I did this when I first started playing. You don't need to use an expensive cable either, just something that's a step up from the cheap one.
Erm... I was playing through an amp. I was using the recording output of the BluGuitar Amp1. It's a solid state/valve hybrid 100W amp. No vst amp sims used in this video.
@@JRobsonGuitar Oh sorry, my bad, didn't realise. I'm into hi-fi as well as guitars, and discussions about cables are just as much of a minefield in that world too! All I can say is that from experience in both cases, when I've upgraded from thin, cheap cables to something better quality I've noticed an improvement. Saying that, when I've tried different higher quality cables I've never really noticed any difference. The point I was making was that if you give the cables more work to do, you might notice a difference then. Cheers
I cant say Im surprised by your test John as Ive long held the opinion that cheap small pots and thin wires connecting them to a guitars pickups sound identical to cloth covered push back wires connected to full sized CTS pots, the only difference is that I wouldnt expect them to last as long as the more expensive components, this is the reason that while I will almost certainly change the pups in a budget priced guitar I will only replace the pots and wiring if I need to due to a component not working as it should, or to my liking.
The tone was fine for me. My experience with cheap cables is cracking & popping, especially if you move around. It's the jacks and solder joints are more of a problem than the actual cable. As you say John, they get worse over time. Was that a new one you had there?
Why didn't you try the cordless radio devices, it's either radio or Bluetooth connected, transmitter on the guitar and receiver on the amp. I'm convinced they give a better sound than any cable. I can see why they might not be ideal for a gig, but for practice or playing at home they are great, rechargeable also last 3 - 5 hours. Id be interested to see what you think of them if you haven't already covered them.
I wouldn't go abseiling using the cheaper cables, the moulded on ends tend to fall off after a few decades. Driving the cable's LCR with a low output impedance pedal is not the same as driving it with a high impedance pickup into a high impedance amp input. Different cables will produce different results, although a FFT would probably be more accurate than ones ear.. All cables, particularly single cored with shield will act as a capacitive microphone, producing noise and crackles when moved. Twin core shielded will be less of a problem in that respect. If those twin cores can be balanced it would be even better (on a guitar? LP Studio originally had them). Other than that, any bit of wire will be louder than none.
i like the patch cable. it sort of added a bit of 'raunch' and made you play a better solo. of course you need to be very close to your amp and not run about the stage
Ummm. Hi man. You kinda overlooked some stuff.
What affects the tone audibly is cable capacitance. The more you have, will progressively dull the top end of a cable as a function of length.
Most pedals will have a lo-z output (as will active pickups) and these cause the capacitance to be shifted-up out of general hearing range. Also, drive adds high harmonics which would mask some of the top end response differences.
If you got a "bad" cable of the same length (> 2-3m) as a "good" one, direct from a passive pickup - you would defo hear the difference. The shortest cable (ie. Patch) is the closest to "transparent" you can get.
When you get to the "good" cables, there's a lot of Bee Ess from people who don't understand perception bias.
IME, if the effect isn't obvious, forget about it, and buy the cheaper cable, just make sure the shielding/construction are good.
There's more, but this is a YT comment, so Im just waving the flag.
I think reliability/longevity is probably the main issue here, though the 'pro' lead does seem to transmit slightly less mids and more top than the others, if push comes to shove, but it's pretty much as broad as it's long!
what does make a difference is the length oif the lead.. the longer the lead the greater the capacitance, thus with long leads you will see the treble rolling off..
It's all horses for courses. If you're just sitting at home noodling away, the cable that was free with your latest addition to the collection ("did I say latest? No, dear, I've had that one for ages, but it was in a case in the loft, and I brought it down for a change of pace. What are you doing with that rolling pin?") is going to last a good while.
If you're regularly gigging, there's a good chance the 6 foot cable that was fine at home is no good to you, so you need 10-12 feet (possibly more, depending how much space you have to move in) to go to your pedals, and - depending on your setup - another couple of those for the effects loop. And those are - with the best will in the world - going to twist and get trodden on, especially if you, or one of the other guys in the band is doing Angus Young impressions and getting your 10,000 steps in during the set.
So in the latter scenario, what you want from the cables is just to be... better made. The wires that carry the signal should hopefully be better protected, and the connectors soldered and maybe heat-shrink-tubing-ed more securely so that the wear takes longer to cause enough damage to be audible.
Hi John,
I'm sure there would be a difference, if you examined the track wave patterns, but I can't hear any difference.
My son is a jazz bass player and he always uses a "reasonable" quality cable. He can't afford to have cable crackle, when playing live.
Side question: Wireless? I'm interested in trying wireless. The Mrs is always complaining that my cables are messy (and a trip hazzard).
for what its worth, i saw an interview with trey anastasio [guitarist for the band phish] and he said that he compared high quality cables [i believe George L brand] to other cables and he said that there definitely was a difference in audio quality. so he uses George L's.
In my tests, Cables/Leads do make some difference to tone. I think the best way to quantify the difference is to record a loop, and perform a Null Test using the different pieces of gear. The results will be obvious.
I don't think it's necessarily a tone thing, I think it's a confidence thing. I have used the same two cables going from guitar to board and board to amp for certainly 15 if not closer to 20 years, I coil them carefully and look after them. My bandmate jams his cables into the case and they break. Buy the best you can afford and look after them.
Very Cool, Thankyou John. I have had a couple of failures from a "Quality" Cable brand but have only had awesome sound and reliability from my budget Artist Guitars Cables, They Rock. All the Best, Cheers.
My question with the cheap lead would be longevity and durability. It sounds fine, but how long will it hold up ?
Isolate the *high* frequencies and listen.
The problem with "cheap" cables is higher capacitance than "good" cables, making the very, very top end roll off. A "short" cheap cable can have as much capacitance as a "very long" expensive one. 🤷♂️
A telecaster into a JC will probably demonstrate the effect best. 😁
It depends how they behave when you move around. My wife had all kinds of problems with crackling with a cheap lead, just sitting playing the guitar, occasionally turning a little. Thought it might be the input, but she tried one of my leads and the problem disappeared
Haul your rig to practice or play a dozen or so times: One end or the other will get a bit fiddly on the cheap one. You pay much more for reliability than sound. BTW, why didn't you add the wireless to the comparison, or the office-chair-wheels enduro, or a Dougal chew toy party?
Good test Sir. I could never hear the difference, even though I can prove differences with my Oscilloscope. Over 6 meters, the capacitance starts affecting frequency in the range that can be heard. A better quality cable is far more durable in daily use. As a player, I prefer cables that are very limber, and a lot of the cheap ones stay kinked up and catch on things.
Its all a bit like discusing which rusty old lawn mower cuts the grass best.. if the blade is sharp it cuts the grass ... if blade is dull.... it cuts the grass
But a dull blade hurts the grass more and you can hear the screams.
I make my own from eBay bought cables and jacks
But also like the fender tweed cables
To me it’s night and day , good vs poor quality
But then I’ve never ever played through a computer
So it’s possibly circumstantial ,
Horses for courses John 👍🏻
Interesting. It's a pity that your Lekato wireless system packed up. It would have good to see how that compared to hard wire.
That's what I was trying to say, I think they sound better than any cables.
My feeling is that a lot of the ‘quality’ gear is really just marketing hype. There might be some difference, but that’s nothing compared to slight variation in playing technique, environmental issues like heat, wet hands etc etc. Expensive stuff might last longer, but - given accidents etc - that also is a question of how you handle your gear.
This is a completely wrong approach! The effect of the cable is caused mainly by its capacitance and its influence on the pickup signal (the additional capacitance will lower the resonant peak and resonance frequency of the pickup). If you are using a looper as a source this effect is mostly lost, as the looper will have a low impedance output buffer.
Is there a difference between $10 cable and $40 cable. IMO, yes. But I’ve not noticed a difference between $40 cable and $100 cable. I buy “good/better” but not the top end. I’ve found they last equally long too. I went thru 10 monster cable replacements. Guitar Center eventually wouldn’t replace it as my receipt was so worn they thought I was trying to rip them off. Not sure why, assumed they get credit back from manufacturer regardless.
Hate to break it to you but your test is flawed before the 3:30 min mark. This is a fine test if you are running a buffered path into your rig, but anyone that cares about tone and the interaction of the guitar pickups directly in to a tube amp will have a different experience where capacitance does have a clear impact on the sound. You are also using a recorded signal into an fairly low quality amp (in comparison to boutique tube gear). Granted the differences won't matter to many people, but if you are plugging a D'Pergo into a Trainwreck I can assure you there is a difference between Evidence Audio Lyric HG cables and what Monster makes. Your test is a good idea for the common beginner player who isn't playing through high end gear to begin with though. The main deciding factor for those should be build quality, and ironically the best sounding cable - the Lyric HG, is also far more prone to break than a Whirlwind Leader cable due to the solid core construction.
This "test" was on the low output impedance of a pedal. Connecting the leads to a guitar pickup will produce completely different results. That's just one reason (out of many) that this "test" is nothing more than an utter joke. A complete waste of time and effort.
I play with a wireless unit... carry a few cords with me in case of issues... I think that the "tone" of my guitar is less effected by using a wireless... but that is just my personal opinion.
HI John. Not hearing any difference on my laptop, but stand on the cables a couple of dozen times, see how they hold up then, will there be a difference, i dont know. but my cables get "stood on" quite frequently.
The quality of a cable is definitely measured by how well it’s built and how long it lasts. When working properly, a cheap cable should sound exactly the same as an expensive one. Tone shaping should only be a product of the cable length. As far as I understand it.
Using longer leads I was shocked by how one lead sounded so much better than another too quality brand.
i heard a clearer signal with the patch cable...perhaps it is a matter of distance....for longevity, spend a few extra dollars
Have you compared them with a wireless system?
Interested how that works on longer cables, like you may need on stage.
Put a fish tank in the room, then you would see or hear, cable length ect, my pro leads are as thick as your thumb, yes at home just go for a quality lead, though now I am trying the radio ones LEKATO, cheap as chips and I am impressed, depends on how long they last, for home use cannot fault them £40
Next episode test for cable directionality....yes cables are directional with physics reasons why this is so.
Still need to know how you managed to connect your guitar to the amp with a patch cable 🙂
I didn't. I recorded the solo into a looper pedal with a high quality cable. Then I connected the looper pedal to the amp with a variety of cables, including the patch cable. I did explain this in the video.
I'd stick with your original opinion. Too many unknowns in your experiment to get a good assessment. For example I'd expect the output level from your looper to be much higher than the guitar itself, so noise would be much less of a problem. Also the quality cables might have better shielding, but that would only become audibly noticeable as you moved around. I imagine in your experiment the cables were probably stationary?
Head above the parapet time... I thought the patch cable sounded better than the other two, both in the mix and in the raw solo, John. I didn't look to see which cable you were using in the mix to avoid any expectation bias. Does anyone agree with me - or am I gonna be shot down in flames? ;) Great thought provoking stuff, as always!
Might well have done, but it was only 12” long. Remember we are listening thru a super compressed medium.
I couldn't really hear a difference. What I do know is that home playing my Zvive wireless sounds different to my back-up cable, but I doubt you would hear it in a mix.
Some of t'cheapo cables are very noisy, but otherwise wire is wire. Capacitance is a variable between cables.
Cables make difference if you are looking for detail but you may prefer also one with less one...
try a george l through an rndi if clarity matters
I wonder if any audiophile HiFi freaks have been watching this. There, the different prices to be paid are from budget to stratospheric, and I mean as in thousands of multiples of £s. There’s definitely something to be said for using quality jack plugs and connectors, after all, that’s where the mechanical forces will have the most effect, but selling oxygen free, directional copper conductors as some kind of “magic” ingredient which only they will unlock those hidden microtones appears to have been shown up for the snake oil it is by your rather thorough comparisons.
Should have compared the wired and wireless m8! - there's another video!
This was fascinating, no difference at all to my ears !! 😄
Your tone sounds worlds better without all the reverb and delay!!!
Would've been interesting to have added a wireless guitar system to the test
Also might've been a truer test if you'd recorded the guitar directly into Reaper rather than going via the looper
Cheap leads are a waste of money in my opinion, they don’t sound any different but they certainly last a lot longer.Van Damme are the ones I recommend.And I always make my own cables up .
There's not a huge difference... SPEAKERS make the biggest difference. Then Amp head then guitar especially strings . However the most important thing is the PLAYER 2nd is the PLAYER 3rd the PLAYER... remember Eddie Van Halen played a Reject Guitar body reject neck chisel the body for pickups... Cheers 🍻🥃🥃 🎸🎵🎶
It's not about the sound, it's about how it makes you feel when you play with an expensive cable. 😁
The only thing that a "cheap cable" will do is if you have intermittent connections that cause the circuit to become disconnected, even if only momentarily.
How "good" or "crappy" your cable is makes NO DIFFERENCE in the sound.
None. It will sound exactly the same.
I don't care what kind of "audiophile" you purport to be.
The ONLY difference there could possibly be would be if you're moving around that might cause a crappy able to have intermittent disconnections.
I just don't understand why people think a cable can "improve" the sound!
All identical. Just goes to show you the power of marketing.
Just imagine, there's a cable at Sweetwater for $433.00 called Lava Cable LCHL20...you'd have to be really rich, or seriously naive.
I heard a difference. The cheap one didn't have as good tone quality!
Pro quality lead means 3 - 10 times more expensive.
Meh. Any average cable is good for the audience and for the guitarist. Matteo Mancuso is good enough on the a noname cable. You can solder the components urself at home too: good. I did it several times, and most of the oldschool guys.
Not the best test bud tbh ...keep rockin👍
I think you have a big hole in your test, the lead will only make a difference from the guitar as it's an analogue signal, as soon as you as you record it or stick it into a looper is now a digital signal and the cable will not really change with cables.
Blasphemy!!! Next you will tell us that tome wood does not matter!!!😂😂😂
no difference what so ever ... I have tons of cables and multiple qualities since over 30 years and quite frankly I do not ear any difference between all of them . Some are more resistant/strong obviously but sound wise there are no difference at all ... and that's exactly the same with my home cinema installation ... it is because of my home cinema installation that I do not buy anymore very expensive cables neither on HiFi nor on home studio ... not the cheapest but the middle ones are fine enough. The studio / recording pros will tell you the contrary for sure ...