That's a shame, bit maybe they could make it so for the single frame where Ganon actually starts swinging, there could be a hitbox where the blindspot is to cover that glaring flaw with the DORIYAH!
@@yaldabaoth4807 smash has too many characters, inevitably some moves are gonna be similar. All traditional sword fighters have the same down smash (link, Y link, T link, marth, roy, ike, lucina, chrom, and hero) Many brawlers have the same down smash too (mario, luigi, drmario, samus, piranha plant) and more if we include other spins which aren't kicks. All 3 new heavies introduced in ultimate have the exact same body slam down smash (ridley, krool, incineroar) While it's good to have original moves for diversity, the most important aspect is for the moves to work well within a character's kit
@@YounesLayachi Sure, but (most) of those at least have unique animations, and (most) of those actually make sense for the character. Why is Ganon swinging a sword that he has NEVER used in an actual game?!
One small misconception about Ganondorf's Neutral B. The aerial version IS more powerful, but Ganondorf can't be touching the ground when the hitbox comes out or else the grounded version will come out instead. This means that it's nearly impossible to get the aerial version of Warlock Punch because he has to be falling for almost a straight second before the move lands and he doesn't have that kind of vertical mobility. Edit: gonna correct this before someone tries to "well actually" me. Yes, I know Warlock Punch takes 70/80 frames to come out, but if you're trying to land the aerial version, you're probably not gonna wait until you start falling to start Warlock Punch, hence, almost a straight second.
You can hit it off of the top Battlefield Platform if your timings right, I think. Note that the backwards aerial version takes a bit longer to come out, so this only counts for the forward aerial version.
Easily one of the worst characters in Ultimate, with very noticeable flaws and exploitable weaknesses, but I’ll be damned if I said he didn’t provide some sauce when he gets going. In the right hands, Ganondorf takes down armies single-handedly, and that’s why he’s my beloved main.
Ganons sauce is toxic when ingested or when it comes into contact with the skin. this is proven in BotW, as seen by the painful goopy stuff all over hyrule.
Ganon is to slow for me as a sonic main but ganon doesn't mainly camp which is the only reason why I play him cause camping half a match isn't fun and playing falcon doesn't make sense to me
Well, I have said it once, and I'll say it again. Someone at Duke Of Dorks has improved him by making his neutral special into a teleporting counter that has him do the three hit jab. Meaning that if he gets hit by a projectile, he will teleport to the opponent and hit them with that three hit jab. This is an actually good recovery that fits the character. You can check the rest of the concept out by going to the description of the Peasants Perspective and it will be easily identifiable by because it has Little mac on it's thumbnail.
You guys were getting super-armor? In all seriousness, I've almost never had the super-armor work, no matter when I've been hit during the move. I just never use it, since it's so inconsistent.
I kinda wish, they would've swapped out his current up-tilt with a weaker version of his smash 4 up-smash because that move was just a lot of fun to spam.
Agreed, his Up Tilt is borderline USELESS in neutral, not reliable as a out-of-shield option, takes way too long to use and only useful for being ballsy and going for a ledgetrap/2-frame/shield punish read or making it a lingering hitbox against external hurtboxes on recoveries like Villager's Up B. I'd want a redesign, believe me but its extremely doubtful as so far the balancing team only adds, removes or moves hitboxes/knockback as well as their frame data, they never redesigned an animation to make new hitboxes and frame data for it. Redesigning G&W's FSmash animation doesn't count as no hitboxes and frame data was altered. Misinputing the move when you think you have a normal Up Tilt as a decent OOS often makes you die due to players will catch you vulnerable while charging it and likely punish a mistake to gimp your stock.
Agree, but make it a 2 step move where the 2nd step (like snake ftilt) is the current explosion. Getting hit by both steps should also be impossible (1st launchs up and doesn't hit shields)
I’m so glad I’m not the only one, his exploding axe kick thing is so damn awful, especially when you do it accidentally, he using a weaker Smash 4 Up Smash as Up Tilt would feel more proper, especially when all his tilts are forceful straight kicks like that very Up Smash, and would add another move that’s legit only Ganondorf does (the current Up Tilt is just a modified version of Captain Falcon’s), and would be such a very great faster anti-air option, and perhaps a bait tool as well
It also can't hit small or medium-sized characters landing directly at your feet. On multiple occasions, I've read the air-dodge and positioned myself to hit the other guy with an up-smash as soon as their I-frames wore off, only for the attack to whiff because they were inside the attack's hit range. It's disgraceful. Even Mario was able to get in safely against it! No, I take that back. The true disgrace is how tiny that Wizard Kick is. Surely they could give it a little more size!
The exact same happened to me with BAir! I parried a Wario dash attacking, attempted to punish it with a short hop BAir and the said thing happened to me and I ate a Down Smash for a "failed" attempt
On paper, Ganon has decent hitboxes, but a lot of moves don’t seem to fulfill their purpose or have some giant flaw. You can fall out of Nair1/2, blindspots at the beginning and end of Up smash. I do wish Bair and Fair had unique effects so we can get away with making the hitboxes bigger
Important note: The damage on Warlock Punch only increases if it is hit _while_ airborne. Activating in the air but hitting it on the ground won't increase its damage.
Real missed opportunity to bring up the fact of tech-checking. For those who don't know if you get grabbed by Ganon's (and Falcon's) up-b while he's recovering, if you tech the hit, most characters will be able to hit Ganon and kill him before he can even act because the endlag of the up-b grab is so long. It is honestly one of the most unfortunate (hopefully) unintentional mechanic in the game.
The other side of the coin is that if you play with newbies that never tech his recovery is near unchallengeable because they will get stage spiked every time
@@insertusername8806 It’s been changed to “tech checking” so it makes more sense to people. And it’s kinda true. Challenge their Up-B’s offstage and get caught, it’s pretty easy to prepare a tech if you are decent at reacting. Basically the same as a vibe check lol.
@@harmless9336 Well, if the opponent misses the tech every time, the reduction in endlag to up-b won't change anything for the opponent. They die whether Ganon takes 2 frames to act out of up-b or 10 years
I remember seeing Ganondorf's Neutral Air back before Smash Ultimate came out. I was promptly scared of what the game would be like due to how it looked like it had no landing lag whatsoever. Of course now it pretty much feels like landing lag doesn't exist anymore on every character that isn't Hero or Snake.
Worth mentioning that Usmash has pretty glaring blindspots directly next to him, allowing some characters to just stand next to him for Usmash to whiff. Could be easily fixed by placing some hitboxes next to his feet, but I can't remember the last time Ganondorf was given any attention in patches so he'll likely just get to keep those blindspots.
I was surprised with the down-b you didn't mention how the launch angles change from being a down spike near the start to an upwards launch for hitting grounded targets. Doesn't come in too handy since you've also got the stomp which is just a better airborne spike that doesn't send you hurtling down into the blast zone with the opponent you just spiked, but hey - good to know.
I like the later upward sending hitbox especially when someone tries to juggle me and I haven't used the kick all match. It catches them by surprise and kills them off the top
Warlock Punch's super armor is great when your enemy is locked into a move that does a lot of small hits. Shame there's exactly one of those in the game: Magic Burst. Yeah, you can Warlock Punch through Magic Burst. I discovered this by complete accident (misinput when trying to side-b or down-b).
This is one of those weird instances where a character sucks but his hitboxes are mostly pretty good. Edit: Except Side B and Down B, those need to be larger.
Up-B used to hit Pikachu on the ground. Now it doesn't do that anymore. Uair tipman is gone and it really hurts Ganon's edgeguarding. U-tilt, bair, and down-B are literally half their former sizes. They weren't even that impressive to begin with. Hell Melee Fair had a pretty generous disjoint.
The one thing I absolutely hate about ganon's nair hitbox is even if you bait him to throw it out and you get behind him with a brawler type character, you can still get hit by that rear hitbox. it's even killed me before from ledge.
Bruh I feel the exact same way, love using the move, hate getting hit from the unreasonable secondary backhit and it can happen to any character not just the ones that have big hurtboxes.
I'd like to point out that the very tall hitbox of ganon's uptilt is indeed a very weak hit, but its coded to ALWAYS break your shield regardless of knockback :)
Ganondorf main here - Uptilt is worse than you make it out to be, and you make it sound pretty bad. It's weaker in all senses than an uncharged forward smash, except for the shield damage, does less knockback, is slower, and you cannot control when you let it rip, unlike a charging smash attack. Oh, and the one thing it's supposed to be good at? The shield damage? Against a fully charged shield, sometimes it won't even fully break it. It's just... bad. Seriously, you basically always want to use fsmash or some other option instead. Nair has some problems with the hits linking, no pun intended, against smaller characters in the air, especially if you land the first hit while rising. This can often lead to you getting reversed offstage and losing a stock because you landed your move, which, er, doesn't always sit well. Still a great move, though. Up-special's initial hitbox misses short grounded opponents, which is a major problem. Against opponents who it can grab, though, it's fantastic. You didn't mention tech-checking, which makes sense because it's not really a hitbox issue, more an overall design problem, but those two problems aside, it works very well for what it's supposed to do. It actually goes a deceptively long distance (vertically, anyway) in terms of recovery, despite losing the ridiculous ledgesnap it had in 4. Neutral special is only more powerful if you CONNECT with it while in the air - if you initiate it in the air and then land on the ground before the punch, it does the normal grounded damage and you lose the armour (aka "generally don't do this, not that you should be using it for things that aren't shield break punishes anyway"). Ganondorf on his own cannot actually get the height required to land the aerial version of it - you need items, or to be knocked pretty high into the air, or to use it offstage, which usually results in you dying anyway.
I hope he gets the move set he deserves if another Smash comes out, although I'd love fore him to keep that dair. Maybe port his old Falcon moves onto Black Shadow
You were right about his d-air. Its been the strongest spike in the entire series up until byleth axe dethroned it. Also that lucina cpu just parried warlock punch. WHAT!
@@SeriousStriker I wouldn’t say “really good”. Wolf’s is really good, Ganondorf’s is decent. It can combo at mid percents and kill at High if you time the hitbox right, but that’s the thing, you really need to time it for it to work for you. If Ganondorf’s hitboxes were like Wolf’s, it would be a different story.
I've been asking for a video about mewtwos hit boxes and hurt boxes for a while now but then I remembered there is a decent enough chance that they could all get reworked if they ever fix his tail and stuff.
I wish we had the PM version of ganon in ultimate. he has more mobility and recovery options, a reflector so he can deal with zoners and edge guards better. His uptilt is faster and can work as an anti air or ledge trap. his aerial side-b can set up for combos. he's way more fun to play there.
I think It'd be sick if they made his Up and Side specials chargeable - Weaker on the shorter side, but faster and stronger (with increased distance) on the longer side. This could immensely help his recovery.
At 11:25 when you start talking about Ganondorf's blindspot on his Fsmash, Marth (and Lucina) has the exact same problem. It's actually very frustrating as Marth since you're aiming for perfectly timed tippers. The space itself between the two frames make it very difficult.
Finally, the king of evil himself! Great video as always. Im also very curious to see Roy's hitboxes or Marth's, might prove interesting since they have different hitboxes on their sword.
I've read some pretty good suggestions for this, one of which is quite perfect, imo. The suggestion is to make neutral B a mixed bag of tricks. If you tap b, Ganondorf back-hands, which acts as a reflector similar to what Ganondorf does in OoT. If you hold the button for a little bit, Ganondorf charges the dead man's volley before releasing it. If you hold B all the way to completion, instead of dead mans volley Ganondorf unleashes the warlock punch. This fixes two of Ganondorfs biggest weaknesses, that being a lack of projectile and a lack of ability to handle projectiles while still keeping Ganondorf's most iconic Smash move.
I recall getting interrupted whenever by my opponent’s attacks whenever I throw out Gabon’s Fair and yet the visual animation of Gabon’s Fair still comes out but not the hit box itself
I feel like if they made Ganon's F-smash have one more active frame in between the first and second, the blindspot would go away. Then again, making Ganon's F-smash active last any longer is rather intimidating.
About the warlock punch, in order to use the aerial version, you need to be in the air when the move hits. So in the video, it was no the actual aerial version of the move.
tbh the reason he is consistently placing poorly is his toolkit wasnt made for someone so slow, even as they try to balance it with him in mind its just not enough to give enough synergy, the only way to improve him in a substantial way is to make him fast, anything else is just small stuff that he can appreciate but maybe not really get much out of
Or give him a reflector seeing as how in the game that introduced him he slapped away every long-ranged weapon you used on him and is known for his reflection fights.
@@zadenhomunculus8652 that will patch it up but not really solve his issue, he’ll still be weak to camping and his reflector timing will have to be tight for balance
One of my favorite things when playing my younger neighbor who plays little Mac and spams neutral b is to go to the edge of the stage, use warlock punch, and let the super armor put him in just the right position to die miserably even though the frame data is horrendous.
It's really incredible that Ganondorf only needs 4 simple changes to make him a decent C-tier character. 1) Make his Neutral B his energy orb attack from Ocarina of Time. It's his most iconic attack from his premier game, why did he never have this? The Legacy XP mod gave Phantom Ganon this attack and it's great. He can even fly around while charging it. It's perfect. It would also balance out his slow movement compared to Falcon. 2) Give most of his attacks larger hitboxes. They're ridiculously slow and punishable already so they might as well be more likely to hit. 3) His grounded up-tilt is a joke, just get rid of it. Replace it with literally anything else. 4) Give some of his attacks intangibility on his limbs. Specifically, Wizard Foot, neutral aerial, and neutral ground. This attacks are hilariously easy to defeat in a clash, because basically any other character can simply attack while these are active and hit Ganandorf AND not get hit in return because his hitboxes are so close to his hurtbox. That's all you gotta do! You don't even have to increase his airspeed or boost his horrible recovery. Really, any character that falls into bottom tier should be buffed to be equal to C-tier characters. Even in casual play, it's more frustrating than fun playing with a bottom tier character because the mechanics of the game itself are working against the player.
![Ganondorf in Super Smash Bros - The Best Worst Character [Bumbles McFumbles]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/a4Hv9mkDeKY/mqdefault.jpg)
I like to think Ganon's jab is just a strong high-five
He just high fives you with an electric buzzer, but you know, more painful
Now I wanna break my arm by giving him a High Five.
It's not even a high-five, it's like a...forward-five.
It’s the gumball high five
When you have a ganon ditto.
"Hey high five bro".
Ganon jab trades
Yoooooooo
Gannon is a good example of "when you fight the boss vs when you unlock it as a playable character"
@@Chad_Eldridge Literally any fighting game
"Today's hitboxes were made by Zeckemyro"
- He's gonna talk about the forward smash blindspot, isn't he?
That's a shame, bit maybe they could make it so for the single frame where Ganon actually starts swinging, there could be a hitbox where the blindspot is to cover that glaring flaw with the DORIYAH!
They could make the hitboxes into long hitboxes (like the down smash), so it covers the distance the hitboxes move.
@@Liggliluff they might want to make it so the farther you are from the "first" hit box the less damage it does or something
Or just use up smash when someones more above you, if not one of Ganondorf's airials.
Not to mention the up smash hitbox blindspot.
Poor Ike. He's been swinging a giant sword in an arc for over a decade, and it only gets recognized when evil uses it.
And Cloud's Down Smash too. Even when Ganon tries to separate from a character, it's only to get close to another one
@@yaldabaoth4807 smash has too many characters, inevitably some moves are gonna be similar. All traditional sword fighters have the same down smash (link, Y link, T link, marth, roy, ike, lucina, chrom, and hero)
Many brawlers have the same down smash too (mario, luigi, drmario, samus, piranha plant) and more if we include other spins which aren't kicks.
All 3 new heavies introduced in ultimate have the exact same body slam down smash (ridley, krool, incineroar)
While it's good to have original moves for diversity, the most important aspect is for the moves to work well within a character's kit
@@YounesLayachi Sure, but (most) of those at least have unique animations, and (most) of those actually make sense for the character. Why is Ganon swinging a sword that he has NEVER used in an actual game?!
At least he has his sword finally
@@Chad_Eldridge I know that, I never said he's never used a sword. I'm just saying he's never used THAT sword in an actual game.
"You'll never land up-tilt as Ganondorf."
_Me, who consistently gets hit by up-tilt online:_ "Uh...heh, of course."
@Strange Kitten In my entire carrier I've only ever landed that twice. Feels good when it happens tho lol
Lmao first time I ever played with my friend I broke his shield with that, you can imagine the laughter
Right??? I always tell people Ganon's tier is whatever you can convince your opponent it is.
I’ve landed up-tilt quite a bit, although most of them are either mis-inputs or my opponent didn’t deserve to go out like that
He didn't even mention that it shield breaks
12:07
lmfaoooooo Imagine parrying a warlock punch just to ftilt and run away💀💀💀
One small misconception about Ganondorf's Neutral B. The aerial version IS more powerful, but Ganondorf can't be touching the ground when the hitbox comes out or else the grounded version will come out instead. This means that it's nearly impossible to get the aerial version of Warlock Punch because he has to be falling for almost a straight second before the move lands and he doesn't have that kind of vertical mobility.
Edit: gonna correct this before someone tries to "well actually" me. Yes, I know Warlock Punch takes 70/80 frames to come out, but if you're trying to land the aerial version, you're probably not gonna wait until you start falling to start Warlock Punch, hence, almost a straight second.
only off stage or with a bunny hood is it realistically possible
@@Veemo590 Or the tanuki ears
You can hit it off of the top Battlefield Platform if your timings right, I think. Note that the backwards aerial version takes a bit longer to come out, so this only counts for the forward aerial version.
Actually, Kirby can pull it off!
Or the jet pack
Also I think a turn around Ariel warlock punch can kill Mario at 0 from center stage
Or at least really low
I know some of his hitboxes aren’t intimidating but damn that D-Air looks scary.
Nair
If you play a character with a tether recovery you are way too familiar with it.
Both of bait and fair are scary for tether recoveries. This is coming from a Ganon main.
I landed a down air on a Diddy kong at 3 percent and he died
Except pichu that grab will be hella hard to land on it
First 30 seconds is Rekzius getting destroyed by the world's hypest Zelda. A CPU
Lmao
Better than a WiFi Zelda
@Strange Kitten and they somehow tech a 100%dmg spike
Easily one of the worst characters in Ultimate, with very noticeable flaws and exploitable weaknesses, but I’ll be damned if I said he didn’t provide some sauce when he gets going. In the right hands, Ganondorf takes down armies single-handedly, and that’s why he’s my beloved main.
Oh no im at 90 and havent got a hit
(Side B into grab d-throw nair spam f smash till 1 hits) I got the stock
i just main him because i don't know how to stop
Ganons sauce is toxic when ingested or when it comes into contact with the skin. this is proven in BotW, as seen by the painful goopy stuff all over hyrule.
He sure doesn't feel like one of the worst, I'm fucking addicted to him
Ganon is to slow for me as a sonic main but ganon doesn't mainly camp which is the only reason why I play him cause camping half a match isn't fun and playing falcon doesn't make sense to me
"every character deserves a recovery"
Little mac mains: *crying internally*
Jigglypuff: Yeah..
Wait people main little mac?
"every character deserves a recovery"
Ganon mains: A what?
Well, I have said it once, and I'll say it again. Someone at Duke Of Dorks has improved him by making his neutral special into a teleporting counter that has him do the three hit jab. Meaning that if he gets hit by a projectile, he will teleport to the opponent and hit them with that three hit jab. This is an actually good recovery that fits the character. You can check the rest of the concept out by going to the description of the Peasants Perspective and it will be easily identifiable by because it has Little mac on it's thumbnail.
@@StoryTeller796 Why does a boxer teleport?
Fun fact: until Byleth, Ganon had the strongest down air in the game.
More specifically the most killpower.
I think Steve's down air is also incredibly strong, though it doesn't spike so it kills later despite doing more knockback.
@@SeriousStriker If the opponent is grounded I think Byleth's _might_ still be stronger.
Buffs have joined the chat
Byleth did take the crown of the strongest spike in the game
@@OPLord what about ganon down b or greninja counter down?
Anyone else get peeved when he goes over a move, then proceeds to show footage of everything except said move.
Its driving me crazy fr
I tough you were gonna say "It hits like a massive blade being swung by the phisical manifestation of a Truck"
You forgot the part where he loses his super armor during neutral B for 2 and 4 frames for normal and reversed just before the hit boxes come out.
You guys were getting super-armor?
In all seriousness, I've almost never had the super-armor work, no matter when I've been hit during the move. I just never use it, since it's so inconsistent.
"But, maybe one day we'll see a change of winds."
I covet that wind, I suppose.
I dont know how this doesnt have infinite likes
This man's vocabulary must be 90% comprised of adjectives
Lmao fr
I kinda wish, they would've swapped out his current up-tilt with a weaker version of his smash 4 up-smash because that move was just a lot of fun to spam.
Agreed, his Up Tilt is borderline USELESS in neutral, not reliable as a out-of-shield option, takes way too long to use and only useful for being ballsy and going for a ledgetrap/2-frame/shield punish read or making it a lingering hitbox against external hurtboxes on recoveries like Villager's Up B. I'd want a redesign, believe me but its extremely doubtful as so far the balancing team only adds, removes or moves hitboxes/knockback as well as their frame data, they never redesigned an animation to make new hitboxes and frame data for it. Redesigning G&W's FSmash animation doesn't count as no hitboxes and frame data was altered. Misinputing the move when you think you have a normal Up Tilt as a decent OOS often makes you die due to players will catch you vulnerable while charging it and likely punish a mistake to gimp your stock.
Yeah a weaker smash 4 ganon up smash for an up tilt is a damn good idea
Agree, but make it a 2 step move where the 2nd step (like snake ftilt) is the current explosion. Getting hit by both steps should also be impossible (1st launchs up and doesn't hit shields)
@@YounesLayachi Damn, I thought I was the only one with this idea. The cheering shampoo bottles lied to me
I’m so glad I’m not the only one, his exploding axe kick thing is so damn awful, especially when you do it accidentally, he using a weaker Smash 4 Up Smash as Up Tilt would feel more proper, especially when all his tilts are forceful straight kicks like that very Up Smash, and would add another move that’s legit only Ganondorf does (the current Up Tilt is just a modified version of Captain Falcon’s), and would be such a very great faster anti-air option, and perhaps a bait tool as well
One other thing about up-smash: despite it looking like it should, it can’t hit certain crouching opponents on the back hit.
It also can't hit small or medium-sized characters landing directly at your feet. On multiple occasions, I've read the air-dodge and positioned myself to hit the other guy with an up-smash as soon as their I-frames wore off, only for the attack to whiff because they were inside the attack's hit range. It's disgraceful. Even Mario was able to get in safely against it!
No, I take that back. The true disgrace is how tiny that Wizard Kick is. Surely they could give it a little more size!
Ganon’s animations are sooooooo clean.
"Is it still a punch if you do it with an open palm" my mother would say no
Fun fact: buffering a fair out of a fast fall short hop makes it so the particle effects of the punch come out, but the hit box doesn’t come out
The exact same happened to me with BAir! I parried a Wario dash attacking, attempted to punish it with a short hop BAir and the said thing happened to me and I ate a Down Smash for a "failed" attempt
Yeah I find that really weird
I hate that lol
Ridley's Ridiculous Hitboxes?
or
Ridley's Hitboxes are TOO BIG?!
Ridley's Ridiculous Hitboxes are TOO BIG?!
@@seabassjames8222 Hell yeah! XD
@@seabassjames8222 Both. Both is good.
ridley fucking dies from being the size of the terminal montage universe
@Roger Loe It's a reference to the Xenomorths from Alien.
7:46 "Every character needs a recovery" while fighting jigglypuff.
Jigglypuff has a recovery, it's called 6 fucking jumps
And upward pound
On paper, Ganon has decent hitboxes, but a lot of moves don’t seem to fulfill their purpose or have some giant flaw.
You can fall out of Nair1/2, blindspots at the beginning and end of Up smash.
I do wish Bair and Fair had unique effects so we can get away with making the hitboxes bigger
God i know those up tilt wind boxes need to be 3 to 4x stronger and it needs to be reduced down to at least 50 frames if not more.
Just make it a 2 step move like snake f tilt, with the 1st step being a fire multihit on his upward extended foot
@@YounesLayachi honestly that'd be pretty cool, like mixing his up tilt with last games up smash
Frame 14 but with less knockback
Considering how weak the move kind of is it would still most likely be abysmal if it hit on frame 30.
Important note: The damage on Warlock Punch only increases if it is hit _while_ airborne. Activating in the air but hitting it on the ground won't increase its damage.
Reversing it on the ground will increase the damage
But it _will_ remove the super armour from the move, which is... kiiinda annoying.
But when you hit someone with a reverse-aerial warlock punch as they try to go for ledge . . . that's just the best feeling there is
@@100000reproducciones, yes, and that stacks with aerial contact.
Real missed opportunity to bring up the fact of tech-checking. For those who don't know if you get grabbed by Ganon's (and Falcon's) up-b while he's recovering, if you tech the hit, most characters will be able to hit Ganon and kill him before he can even act because the endlag of the up-b grab is so long. It is honestly one of the most unfortunate (hopefully) unintentional mechanic in the game.
The other side of the coin is that if you play with newbies that never tech his recovery is near unchallengeable because they will get stage spiked every time
Peter Lynch I thought that was called rock-crocking. Did I miss something?
@@insertusername8806 It’s been changed to “tech checking” so it makes more sense to people. And it’s kinda true. Challenge their Up-B’s offstage and get caught, it’s pretty easy to prepare a tech if you are decent at reacting. Basically the same as a vibe check lol.
Thomas R. Oh, that makes sense. Thank you!
@@harmless9336 Well, if the opponent misses the tech every time, the reduction in endlag to up-b won't change anything for the opponent. They die whether Ganon takes 2 frames to act out of up-b or 10 years
I remember seeing Ganondorf's Neutral Air back before Smash Ultimate came out. I was promptly scared of what the game would be like due to how it looked like it had no landing lag whatsoever. Of course now it pretty much feels like landing lag doesn't exist anymore on every character that isn't Hero or Snake.
10:03 Can we just pause and appreciate that interaction in the background footage?
Worth mentioning that Usmash has pretty glaring blindspots directly next to him, allowing some characters to just stand next to him for Usmash to whiff. Could be easily fixed by placing some hitboxes next to his feet, but I can't remember the last time Ganondorf was given any attention in patches so he'll likely just get to keep those blindspots.
I was surprised with the down-b you didn't mention how the launch angles change from being a down spike near the start to an upwards launch for hitting grounded targets. Doesn't come in too handy since you've also got the stomp which is just a better airborne spike that doesn't send you hurtling down into the blast zone with the opponent you just spiked, but hey - good to know.
I like the later upward sending hitbox especially when someone tries to juggle me and I haven't used the kick all match. It catches them by surprise and kills them off the top
Warlock Punch's super armor is great when your enemy is locked into a move that does a lot of small hits. Shame there's exactly one of those in the game: Magic Burst. Yeah, you can Warlock Punch through Magic Burst. I discovered this by complete accident (misinput when trying to side-b or down-b).
Lol that Hero must've been shook to see that 😂😂
@@MelvinStFleur It was my cousin and we both thought it was hilarious
I think i might be the only one that wants a corrin hitbox analysis
Correct
Honestly I want it too just to see visual confirmation of how awful they are
Me but with Marth
@@GoDzJtFr I KNOW RIGHT
@@hypotheticaltapeworm to be honest marth compared to lucina in one episode would be interesting so i'm about it
Ganon may suck, but in my opinion he is one of the most fun characters to play.
Mained him since smash 4. Never dropping him as my main until doomguy comes around, then he’ll be my secondary
9:13 HE DABS. No wonder he has power
Not sure why this is called "Explaining Ganondorf's Gruesome Hitboxes (Smash Ultimate)"
This is clearly Captain Falcon with a Buster Sword
Captain Falcon with Ragnell.
@@AarturoSc Captain Falcon with an eye beam
This is one of those weird instances where a character sucks but his hitboxes are mostly pretty good.
Edit: Except Side B and Down B, those need to be larger.
Like seriously, I never knew that down b's hitboxes are so tiny
Up b whiffs a lot of short characters when used on the ground. It's actually the main buff he needs imo, as it's a good out of shield option otherwise
Up-B used to hit Pikachu on the ground. Now it doesn't do that anymore.
Uair tipman is gone and it really hurts Ganon's edgeguarding.
U-tilt, bair, and down-B are literally half their former sizes. They weren't even that impressive to begin with.
Hell Melee Fair had a pretty generous disjoint.
I just now noticed that Ganon dabs in his aerial down special.
The one thing I absolutely hate about ganon's nair hitbox is even if you bait him to throw it out and you get behind him with a brawler type character, you can still get hit by that rear hitbox. it's even killed me before from ledge.
Bruh I feel the exact same way, love using the move, hate getting hit from the unreasonable secondary backhit and it can happen to any character not just the ones that have big hurtboxes.
Ganon's jab has always been called "Buddah Palm".
forgot aerial down b making ground contact it has some hitboxex, and a weird one behind him
Can we make a petition to completely Rehaul ganon’s moveset? He’s too important of a character to just be taking moves from other characters
Keep the down air and smash attacks, but redo most normals and specials
I'd like to point out that the very tall hitbox of ganon's uptilt is indeed a very weak hit, but its coded to ALWAYS break your shield regardless of knockback :)
Ganondorf main here -
Uptilt is worse than you make it out to be, and you make it sound pretty bad. It's weaker in all senses than an uncharged forward smash, except for the shield damage, does less knockback, is slower, and you cannot control when you let it rip, unlike a charging smash attack. Oh, and the one thing it's supposed to be good at? The shield damage? Against a fully charged shield, sometimes it won't even fully break it. It's just... bad. Seriously, you basically always want to use fsmash or some other option instead.
Nair has some problems with the hits linking, no pun intended, against smaller characters in the air, especially if you land the first hit while rising. This can often lead to you getting reversed offstage and losing a stock because you landed your move, which, er, doesn't always sit well. Still a great move, though.
Up-special's initial hitbox misses short grounded opponents, which is a major problem. Against opponents who it can grab, though, it's fantastic. You didn't mention tech-checking, which makes sense because it's not really a hitbox issue, more an overall design problem, but those two problems aside, it works very well for what it's supposed to do. It actually goes a deceptively long distance (vertically, anyway) in terms of recovery, despite losing the ridiculous ledgesnap it had in 4.
Neutral special is only more powerful if you CONNECT with it while in the air - if you initiate it in the air and then land on the ground before the punch, it does the normal grounded damage and you lose the armour (aka "generally don't do this, not that you should be using it for things that aren't shield break punishes anyway"). Ganondorf on his own cannot actually get the height required to land the aerial version of it - you need items, or to be knocked pretty high into the air, or to use it offstage, which usually results in you dying anyway.
Ganon’s jab needs a better hitbox for below him and I wish it had melee frame data
Marth's Marvelous Hitboxes
Get it, because Dancing Blade is called (マーベラスコンビネーション) Marvelous Combination in Japan?
And Lucina's Ludicrous Hitbixes or something I guess.
0:40 and i just got back from watching PJiggles's "Worst Moves in Smash" videos
3:30 That just explained so many interactions for me. Thank you
Gannon is brutal when no one knows what they're doing. Once your friends figure out how to move then he becomes a punching bag.
9:12 Ganondorf dabs when he does his down special in the air. Good luck unseeing that.
You're right. That's hilarious.
not funny
didn't laugh
@@wahoo812 dated meme
sucky reply
Gabon’s F-air hit box actually comes out a frame or two slower than the move’s smear, which is torturous when dealing with smaller characters
Can we talk about how the CPUs in the video parried Utilt and Warlock Punch
If a high level CPU shields during Ganondorf's Up Tilt startup they will always parry it just to show off.
6:58 laughs in Luigi down taunt*
When it came to Ganon's Dair, I had a big evil grin on my face.
Any fellow Ganon mains around here?
Sad there is no visualisation on Ganon's up special when he has someone grabbed. The sparks have a hitbox too
Good to see my go to when raging at the level 4 spirits get his due. I love Ganondorf in ultimate, he just feels right to me.
7:02 fun fact: ganon’s down air spike was actually the strongest spike in the entire game until byleth
Wizard's foot spike kills way sooner.
@@Fin0fLenster what no lmao
@@Molten2004 The base knockback on it is way higher than down air.
I hope he gets the move set he deserves if another Smash comes out, although I'd love fore him to keep that dair. Maybe port his old Falcon moves onto Black Shadow
You were right about his d-air. Its been the strongest spike in the entire series up until byleth axe dethroned it.
Also that lucina cpu just parried warlock punch. WHAT!
If you mean kill percentage wise then Ganondorf's Down Air isn't even his own strongest spike.
Ganon is more agile than I’d expect from someone as big and bulky as he.
8:52 That's it?! What the heck is that?!
Ganon's SSBU Dash Attack is the Roy Dash Attack of Melee.
Except Ganon's dash attack is actually really good.
@@SeriousStriker I wouldn’t say “really good”. Wolf’s is really good, Ganondorf’s is decent. It can combo at mid percents and kill at High if you time the hitbox right, but that’s the thing, you really need to time it for it to work for you. If Ganondorf’s hitboxes were like Wolf’s, it would be a different story.
It's like Nintendo WANTS ganon to be bad
9:12
I never realized Ganon dabs during that.
Me who has Ganon as a pocket is kinda disappointed he’s technically among the worst in the game, as he’s fun as hell to play
10:03 That sync was amazing
Good catch!
Im hoping for a "Bowser's baffling hitboxes" next.
I've been asking for a video about mewtwos hit boxes and hurt boxes for a while now but then I remembered there is a decent enough chance that they could all get reworked if they ever fix his tail and stuff.
Ridley’s Repulsive Hitboxes?
I wish we had the PM version of ganon in ultimate. he has more mobility and recovery options, a reflector so he can deal with zoners and edge guards better. His uptilt is faster and can work as an anti air or ledge trap. his aerial side-b can set up for combos. he's way more fun to play there.
I think It'd be sick if they made his Up and Side specials chargeable - Weaker on the shorter side, but faster and stronger (with increased distance) on the longer side. This could immensely help his recovery.
At 11:25 when you start talking about Ganondorf's blindspot on his Fsmash, Marth (and Lucina) has the exact same problem. It's actually very frustrating as Marth since you're aiming for perfectly timed tippers. The space itself between the two frames make it very difficult.
9:58 oh it matters! Just gotta read get up attack after force choke or if they ledge attack the super armor means they die.
I need the King K hitboxes... I just need to know
Finally, the king of evil himself! Great video as always.
Im also very curious to see Roy's hitboxes or Marth's, might prove interesting since they have different hitboxes on their sword.
As a Roy main, up-smash makes me cry every time I use it. The scoop hitbox is actually so pathetic it's insane.
Roy's Rancid Hitboxes
@@aykh1705
Cries in Hero Up-Smash
I really like that you show the use in training mode when you start talking about it
I'd like to see Corrin's hitboxes at some point.
If only so we can watch Rekzius sigh about all of the multi-hit moves
Corrin is all about spacing and attacking with a sweet spot.
Grove of the Burnwillowssssss!
Roy's revered/renowned/remarkable hitboxes for next time! I love your content bro
For me the only thing he needs is a projectile like Gordow maybe replace the warlock punch with the dead man's volley thingy from Oot
He needs a lot more than that.
I've read some pretty good suggestions for this, one of which is quite perfect, imo.
The suggestion is to make neutral B a mixed bag of tricks. If you tap b, Ganondorf back-hands, which acts as a reflector similar to what Ganondorf does in OoT. If you hold the button for a little bit, Ganondorf charges the dead man's volley before releasing it. If you hold B all the way to completion, instead of dead mans volley Ganondorf unleashes the warlock punch. This fixes two of Ganondorfs biggest weaknesses, that being a lack of projectile and a lack of ability to handle projectiles while still keeping Ganondorf's most iconic Smash move.
I'd rather he just punch automatically if he gets hit by a projectile. Home-Run Bat does that now.
I recall getting interrupted whenever by my opponent’s attacks whenever I throw out Gabon’s Fair and yet the visual animation of Gabon’s Fair still comes out but not the hit box itself
I feel like if they made Ganon's F-smash have one more active frame in between the first and second, the blindspot would go away.
Then again, making Ganon's F-smash active last any longer is rather intimidating.
What about DDD :(
About the warlock punch, in order to use the aerial version, you need to be in the air when the move hits.
So in the video, it was no the actual aerial version of the move.
tbh the reason he is consistently placing poorly is his toolkit wasnt made for someone so slow, even as they try to balance it with him in mind its just not enough to give enough synergy, the only way to improve him in a substantial way is to make him fast, anything else is just small stuff that he can appreciate but maybe not really get much out of
Or give him a reflector seeing as how in the game that introduced him he slapped away every long-ranged weapon you used on him and is known for his reflection fights.
@@zadenhomunculus8652 that will patch it up but not really solve his issue, he’ll still be weak to camping and his reflector timing will have to be tight for balance
You missed the spike hit box on aerial down b startup
One of my favorite things when playing my younger neighbor who plays little Mac and spams neutral b is to go to the edge of the stage, use warlock punch, and let the super armor put him in just the right position to die miserably even though the frame data is horrendous.
Valcano Kick (up tilt) garuntees a shield break and Wizards Foot (downB) spikes for about the first two frames in the air.
Just found out this was posted on my birthday. Nice. Can you do Inkling next?
Forgot to mention the spike property of his aerial down B
I don't know why, but from some reason every time I hit someone with the back side of Ganondorf Up Air, I always think that it's a very weak Spike
Bowser's Beastily Hitboxes
Oh yeah ganon hitbox time
Also thank you for blessing us with pit’s pitiful hitboxes
Pitboxes
You know it’s bad when you are one of the most known villains and you are practically an echo fighter of a hero from a dead racing game
12:06 that cpu had the balls to parry a warlock punch
I’d love to see a Bayonetta hit box video, she’s complicated as it is
5:35 "Back air is atypical, not because it's atypical...............?"
It's really incredible that Ganondorf only needs 4 simple changes to make him a decent C-tier character.
1) Make his Neutral B his energy orb attack from Ocarina of Time. It's his most iconic attack from his premier game, why did he never have this? The Legacy XP mod gave Phantom Ganon this attack and it's great. He can even fly around while charging it. It's perfect. It would also balance out his slow movement compared to Falcon.
2) Give most of his attacks larger hitboxes. They're ridiculously slow and punishable already so they might as well be more likely to hit.
3) His grounded up-tilt is a joke, just get rid of it. Replace it with literally anything else.
4) Give some of his attacks intangibility on his limbs. Specifically, Wizard Foot, neutral aerial, and neutral ground. This attacks are hilariously easy to defeat in a clash, because basically any other character can simply attack while these are active and hit Ganandorf AND not get hit in return because his hitboxes are so close to his hurtbox.
That's all you gotta do! You don't even have to increase his airspeed or boost his horrible recovery. Really, any character that falls into bottom tier should be buffed to be equal to C-tier characters. Even in casual play, it's more frustrating than fun playing with a bottom tier character because the mechanics of the game itself are working against the player.
Today I learned that his up-air only uses one leg to hit the opponent. I always thought he used both at once with his backflip