Who Are Harley Davidson Motorcycles Aimed At Now?
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- So who are Harley Davidson motorcycles aimed at these days? Who are most likely to buy the brand new machines? Has the customer base changed a lot more dramatically so in recent years?
#HarleyBikers #WhoBuysAHarley #HarleyTargets
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I can remember being at the dealer training for the BMW K1200RS back in 96/97. Us dealers were so excited that BMW had a bike with competitive sports credentials to take on the ZZR & Super Blackbird.
We implored the UK Marketing Manager to ditch the boring old BMW corporate advertising, to which he sarcastically said: 'I suppose you want knee-down & wheelie shots in adverts?' to which the whole room shouted 'YES!'
BMW did in fact turn their marketing around, focussed on what customers wanted, changed their brand values and increased market share accordingly.
Ironically, they did that by sacking their German designers and hiring a bunch of spaced-out guys in California to create some far-out bikes wose lineage can be traced right up to the R18, GS & XR models of today.
Harley Davidson can do the same: listen to the customers, build attractive & compelling bikes people want, can afford - or at least aspire to owning.
The Harley-Davidson culture of today was built on the easy availability of cheap, rugged & reliable ex-military bikes after WWII.
Those days may be over, but the principles still stand:
Few people can become enthusiastic about a brand they feel is beyond their reach.
HD sales are aimed at those with discretionary income. I just saved you 10 minutes of your life. Go ride!
Ty
As a prospective HD buyer and long term rider. The new HDs are really expensive (I have the money to buy one no problem) but I find it hard to see the value. Other brands like Ducati and BMW offer so much more in engineering and are leaders in their field. It would be a 100% emotional purchase for me as I don’t want to leave this Earth and never having owned one.
I suspect that Triumph took a bite out of the Harley cake. More rideable, better handling, cheaper and more familiar to the Japanese bike riders. If we end up with import tariffs on US goods Harley sales will further suffer. If the Harley company mentality is the same as most US companies, they don't consider the UK or Europe as a desirable big market, and are happy to maintain US sales.
I just purchased my new and first HD, sure it was expensive af but my experience was great, they shaved thousands off the price being a 23 model. The staff have always answered my questions while it’s getting done up and when I asked just yesterday about whether they’d upgraded the compensator ramp after seeing something about it on another video they said “yep, already done it”.
People constantly say that HD should make affordable motorcycles, and I agree. If you remember, Jochen Zeitz, CEO of the Motor Co., said he wanted to make Harley-Davidson a "boutique" brand--and that's pretty much what has happened. They do not care about the hard working people that made them the number one heavy cruiser brand in the world. Harley has lost me as a customer with their exorbitant pricing and dealer attitudes. I will keep my Sportster, but I've moved on to other, less expensive brands. I hope HD stays relevant as a motorcycle manufacturer, but not all rich people ride motorcycles.
I've owned both HD n Indian..went with BMW last yr..best bang for ur buck.. especially if u get a demo or slightly used..save a bunch of money n the factory warranty is transferable..what else can be better?.. Ride Safe 😊
I’m 35 and last year I bought a used V-Rod Muscle with only 3k miles, fully loaded with many extras cause I don’t really like the new bikes they make (except the Pan América, I’d buy that one), their lineup isn’t designed for younger buyers, Indian, BMW and Triumph have better bikes. I like H-D, but they don’t seem to like me.
So with all those reasons not to buy a Harley, you went out and bought a Harley anyway!
@@nelsonphilip4520they make some great products when they want to, if I decide to get an adventure bike, the Pan America would be my first pick, but like the V-Rod, they are the most different products compared to the rest of their traditional lineup that I really don’t like.
@@jorgerodrigogomezflores5711 Agree on the V-Rod. Always felt that H-D missed out on further developing that platform. Good Luck to you and remember, it's not what you ride, but that you ride!
I've been riding since 77 and Hardley Davidson is the only motorcycle brand that has never interested me. When I was younger I was never "Bro" enough to want one and now I'm older I'm not rich enough to want one. I also like to go around corners without having to worry about the exhaust pipe scrapping.
Hey Alf, I’ve got a 2021 SG. I know yours is a few years older, but I’m wondering if you have the front short fender. Mine has the short one and if riding on wet roads my boots and jeans would get soaked. I came across a Company in the UK called Pyramid. They make fender extenders. I got one for my bike. Fitted it and it solved that problem. I didn’t just bang it in the fender because my bike is pearl white so I painted the whole fender pearl and it came out brilliantly. So if you have the same problem, there is a way to fix it.
I have owned just about every make of motorcycle. Enjoyed them all… I currently own 3, a Panhead, Softail Springer, and 2015 Chieftain. The truth is you can get parts for every Harley ever made. There are shops everywhere that have technicians to work on them.
Motorcyclists overall are down as society these days is told to be “safe”. Harley do have the cheap “X” series which are only newly released. I bought a FatBoy recently and absolutely love it. Maybe somehow just getting more people to try the bikes will work as they are that good ! 😉
They may want the quality customer unfortunately they won’t see the sales volume they want. They aren’t geared to sell under 150k bikes a year. Right now they are barely selling more than more than BMW and are struggling whereas BMW is turning a profit.
Not just discretionary income but also not reliant on the bike for their main transport.
Workshop lead times in weeks if not months;
No parts stock at the dealership;
Salesmen that forget you / ignore you after you’ve bought the bike;
Dealerships closing;
Are there lousy dealerships? Sure... there are shitty/ incompetent people in every industry, but it's hardly universal. I've had nothing but positive experiences with my local HD dealer, from the buying experience to the service department... and no I don't work there, lol.
"Dealerships Closing"
Exactly. HD is a horseshit brand.
sound like my shitty dealer here in sudbury ont, you get the four c. s from them. c the bike c the keys c the door c ya
I think you're being unfair here. I don't particularly want a touring bike with the huge fairing full of electronics on it, but they are very popular and the prices have gone way down while the engine's have gotten bigger and the suspensions gotten better.
I kinda like that BMW GS1300 in green with the gold wheels. It's $30k w/o bags, a radio, or GPS. You can get a new Road Glide for $26k here w/ all that jazz.
Will the GS go 130 mph? Probably. Will the Road Glide? No. Do I care? No, there's no where to ride at 130 mph around here anyway.
Can you ride the GS off road? Probably. Do I care? No. If I want to go play in mud puddles, I'll be a Honda 125 that weighs a couple hundred pounds. I sure as shit ain't going to take a 600 lb $30k bike to out to hop over logs.
I've rented RTs a couple times and I like them, but they are absolute shit when it's windy. My low slung big twins could give a shit about the wind. I did a several hour ride w/ a couple of friends last week. One was on a Sport Tourer, the other on an ADV and both were getting beat to shit by the wind and the speeds. I was as snug as a bug in a rug on my Heritage. I had to be considerate and keep the speeds down for them ;)
Prices have not gone way down. And that’s not just a Harley issue. Under no circumstances should a base model motorcycle be more than like 23 thousand dollars. You can barely find a touring bike even used for that much. Hell, people keep talking about the RG and SG going down in price but in reality 99% of the dealers are selling it for the same price as they always have been. The HD website says $25,999. Haven’t seen one leave the dealership for less than 30k.
This video is spot on. The bikes, while nice, cost too much and lack performance. Indian bikes also cost too much in my opinion, but at least they offer better performance and useful features across the entire product line. Whereas Harley just started to include similar features and slightly upgraded performance but if you want that you have to shell out loads of cash for their touring line up. If you’re not a bagger guy, you’re pretty much out of luck if you want a Harley that competes across the board with say, the Indian Chief or the new Scout line up. And for a brand that is clearly the leader in sales, that’s unacceptable. They should be the ones leading the pack in performance, tech and bikes being more cost friendly. But Harley is behind the times as a whole because they’ve been banking on brand loyalty and this pretend Harley/wannabe outlaw biker community.
The cost in comparison to what the bike itself offers and that fake atmosphere is why they struggle to bring new people in.
Jesse James (the builder) said that he likes to ride a bike that looks like it almost has enough parts on it to actually run. I agree. If it isn't vital to going down the road I don't want it on my bike. No electronics. No heated butt warmer. Harley used to make models like that. Bikes that you could easily work on at the side of the road with minimal tools... which was good because they broke down a LOT. The EVO FXR was great. I still have mine. And the 96 CI TC cruisers (not baggers). I still have my FXSTC. The M8? Still has design issues. And HD doesn't even have a basic cruiser in the lineup. I like the Breakout but you'd need an iron butt to ride it 500 miles in one day. The 103 TC Road King was probably the best bagger they ever made so naturally they dropped the Road King from the lineup. Smart. Just keep selling those mobility tricycles HD!
The only way for most of us to get into the HD world now is through the used market, and there's no shortage of them if you want one. The new sportster models don't appear to have the same appeal as the old models and the prices are a bit salty for what was considered Harleys entry level bike...
With names like Erectile Dysfunction Dyna, Hemorrhoid Heritage Classic and Geezer Glide I think the target customer is really REALLY old doods. Like 80 years old minimum.
Alf, you sure can talk..and talk...and talk
Besides marketing issues and under equiting there non baggers for the price. There good bikes just ether need to cough up the things everyone else is putting on there bikes or cut there prices.
A couple of years back Harley had to make the choice between going back to their roots to make motorcycles for the average rider at a competitive price or double down on their dying client base. For a while it seemed that they were going to do the former, the bronx appears and then the rumors of a new modern engine to replace the EVO and yet in the end they chose the later. Maybe they are trying to squeeze the last dollars of the senior citizen demographic but from my view all they are doing is building a stigma around the HD brand. Making Harley the “old man” bike, which will be anathema to younger riders.
I've just bought a Harley Sportster. Its 20 years old, mint condition with only 9500 miles. Never owned one before but always seen them as a classic old bike. They have an image, like Gibson guitars, and appeal mostly to posers. They aren't perfect but they have charisma. I would never buy a new Harley, they are simply too expensive.
Previously I've owned Japanese sports bikes and tourers, but now, at 68 yoa I don't ride fast, don't travel thousands of miles any more so I thought I'd have a Harley. No way I'm buying the Harley gear to tart up my bike or the clothing. I'll save my money for the things that matter. So far I'm enjoying cruising around on it.
I have bought 3 new Harley Davidson's in my life and I still have them. I have come to the conclusion that buying a Harley is a passionate decision not a logical decision. After being sensible all of your life why not buy something for the beauty and the way it makes you feel rather than on tech and value.
We wouldn't buy sports cars on logic would we..
I went to Harley because they were simple, infinitely rebuildable, and made bikes that were a good value like the Evo Sportster. ALL of that is gone.
If I were looking for another Harley I would only look at used.
If I was looking for a NEW bike it would be a simple, stripped-down sub $10,000 japanese bike.
I am not sure HD have caught on to the complete equitation. Going after the "well financed' crowd.. that is where the money is. If HD wants to keep them coming back, they need to up their service and support game. Folks who pay a lot, expect a lot. Lexus charges more than Toyota, Lexus service is also in a whole different league for service and support than the typical Toyota dealership. My take is HD wants the money, they don't want to provide the service and support. They should also take a page from the high end car playbook and realize that higher margins equate to lower sales volume. Either sell a ton of stuff, cheap, and at volume.. or sell less stuff, more expensive, higher margin. Not many examples of doing both well.
... and having that said... they should start having educated people dealing with the customers adequately, not just like dipshits adressing you like a streetdog or fuckup walking by ...
9:44
Been asking myself that question not only in the financial sense, but mainly in the design and marketing sense. This might be a geographical issue, but here where I live the price difference between HD and Indian is not big at all. 1k up or down. But I can sort of identify the kind of people Indian is aiming for (regardless of their income)… with HD not really. It seems like Indian became what HD used to be and HD is struggling to find its identity.
I think that all depends on region. Here in Taiwan the average of a Harley buyer is between 25 and 40. A much younger target that in the US, Canada, Australia and the UK. Harley in Taiwan started doing this when they entered the market in 2001. Look we all know that if you google the words "typical Harley Davidson rider", what images we will get. Fat old men over 70. This was the image problem they had when they entered.
Now here in Taiwan Harley Davidson isn't Harley Davidson. What I mean by that is Harley Davidson in Taiwan is licensed by Swire Group. Swire is a major played in the Asia/Pacific region. For example they are the distributers for Volkswagon across the region and Coke. Just to name two. For Harley Davidson they basically do most of their marketing different than is seen in the rest of the world.
Harley Davidson bikes here in Taiwan just like any of the other brands, Honda, Suzuki, BMW, Triumph, Ducati and others. Are three times the price you guys pay in the UK. For what we pay here for a Harley Davidson in the UK you can buy three. But, yet, Harley Davidson just like the other brands are frequently out of stock.
During Covid sales of bikes from Harley and all the others jumped by 30%. Covid was actually very good for us. We didn't have any lock downs and it was business as usual. Between 2020 and 2022. Harley in Taiwan had to bring in product from Singapore, Australia, New Zealand and Thailand. just to meet the demand. Just like the other manufactures.
So here seeing a 22 year old on a Harley isn't unusual.
Harley needs to go after a younger demographic.
People who have alot of money and not for the general public. Period ...
I love my Harley. I hate the cost of owning one. Buying it is the cheap part. Maintenance is what kills you. Most dealerships are only in it for the money. The brotherhood is gone.
I reckon the price of an HD, varying from £25-40k, is possibly a factor in the sales slump.
Plus the fact that an HD is a one-trick (very expensive) pony; few people will use their HD for commuting, or when it's raining. Or go to buy a pint of milk at the local shop.
HD have moved away from their traditional customer base who used to customise, modify and service their bikes at home, or through inependent HD specialists. HD have moved to the BMW business model of dealership-only servicing and expensive accessories, supplied exclusively by the company.
You have got to have a very well-paid job to afford to be an HD owner these days. The bike will come out in the summer, when the Harley Owners' Group summon the clan for a very slow ride-out to Lindisfarne or wherever. It's quite amusing to see these over-paid, overweight, late middle-aged stock-brokers and accountants wobbling along at 40mph with twenty-five of the other HOG members.
These rich people will probably be attired in (expensive) HD merch which emulates the 'biker gang' image of leather, denim and 'colours'.
I have deep respect for real Harley-Davidson fans, I know a few. But HD as a company are just interested in the false image their brand has become.
Even well-paid 20 and 30 somethings will be focussed on housing and living costs rather than putting money aside to buy a Harley-Davidson, when there are equally good motorcycles out there for a lot less cash.
To HD management; Triumph and Royal Enfield have stolen your clothes. The coffee beckons.
Love and peace.
To add to that, maintenance on a BMW is a bit of a PITA but you get a machine with good performance in just about any measure.
Hd is targeting different demographics: The new Sport lineup is aimed at younger "hipster" people. The cruisers (middleweight) are aimed at people who culturally identify with HD and can afford a Lowrider ST every 5 years.
The Pan Am is aimed at older riders with middle income and it is priced competitively. The CVO etc is the only part that is aimed at a slim, very wealthy demographic IMHO
They're an apparel company. Have been for years.
Think of Harley Davidson motorcycles and people will answer big heavy, expensive and noisy V twin engined bikes. Tattoos & tassels. Motorbikes used to be a fun thing. Disposable income is shrinking but, putting a big motorcycle on the road and say doing 10K miles a year means sacrificing other needs.
I have a Pan America Special and have had 1 Buell and 2 Sporsters before this and loyal HD customer since 2002.
I will never buy a new HD again the quality is not there anymore and the price is way too much and I’m in the top 10% of earnings bracket and they are just too much now
The feeling I get is that the company doesn’t want to draw anyone new in. They just look after the guy that buys a new bike every two years, so typically cashed up baby boomers. I feel that the days of a dealership you can walk into will go eventually.
I mean, have you noticed that Indian doesn't undercut Harley? Don't you think they would if they could?
If another company could produce product at 1/2 the Harley price-point, don't you think "they" would? Certainly.
The simple truth is that solid quality motorcycle engineering is VERY expensive. You need to decide whether you want to ride these machines.
They aren't going to get any less expensive.
marcus
Haley should raise the price of their cheapest bike to $1M, build it only to order, and rely on shirts and such for their profits.
The overcompensated corporate employees don't care about this.
WTF is with the designer choices, I really wish they had not caved to the "current" designer options and maybe picked another Willie G. Davidson type fella for the next wave. the HP's are impressive now, they obviously spent a ton on RD, but these clubs they have that hold the title of designers couldn't hold a candle to Willie G.
Nobody has any money. Their prices have largley remained unchanged for quite a few years now
The Breakout needs to be $14,999 to appeal to millennials in their 30s - 40s. Everything from Harley is like $28k+ after all the bullshit.
Go ride a Japanese cruiser
In india the 440X is the VIP & we super bikers are no where on the list 😂😢
Maybe Ducati should lower their prices. Harley Davidson are top notch, that's all. I've owned all brands of other motorcycles from Yamaha to Ducati. Cadillac used to be a more prestigious car brand than Mercedes-Benz. Decades later they're still behind the because of their grave mistake of trying to cater to affordability.
Who's their target? It ain't rocket science...the same market segment they've gone after all along: The middle-aged/ mid-life crisis guy with enough disposable income to spend 5-figures on a toy 🤣👍
Hipsters?
The ideal owner is one who has money and is to stupid to understand how air gets into a tire, and will blindly wear harley davidson jeans..like Costco Kirkland jeans. .
Harley Davidson is aimed at higher income people and they are basically pricing themselves above the working class customers. A shame really. Because in my opinion is not a stable customer base.
Harley Davidson aims at those for whom the most important aspect of riding is how they are perceived by others. Those customers will always find a way to pay almost any price tag and.... it works.
Harley-Davidson targets a cross-section demographic. They are playing in the sport cruiser market now, as well the ADV market. The high-end touring baggers are their staple, of course, and those bikes cost as much as an automobile to produce; you're not going to get something for nothing.
Work hard, play smart, save your shekels, prioritize, ride what you fancy, decide what you can afford.
How much was your breaking bad camper? Did you get that for nothing?
marcus
Aimed at a person with extra money who is not very smart.
meh - people bitch all the time about Harley's are overpriced but what they're really saying is "I want a Harley Davidson but ONLY for the price I want to pay for it" and they cry like little babies about how Harley is gouging the customer. Here's the reality - THEN GO BUY SOMETHING ELSE OR STOP BEING POOR!!
I paid full price for my Harley and would gladly do so again if I were in the same financial position. Why? Because it had all the styling I was looking for in a Harley, springer front end, softail, bob tail back fender, black with a matte black paint job. I fell in love the moment I saw it and I KNEW it was a highly desirable bike and would be snatched up fast. SO 2 days after I saw it for the first time, I bought it. I didn't want it to get away and I don't regret for one minute paying full price. In fact I'm glad I worked my ass off to get debt free so I could do something as rash as that!! Hate all you want but I simply don't care.
This Harley has been the best bike ever. It's fast, sounds awesome, looks amazing and rides like a cream puff. I never want to get rid of it and I've had it for 16 some odd years now! Some of the newer bikes look pretty good also so if I were in the market for a new bike, I might pick one of those up also.
Harley is an iconic brand always has been always will be. There's NOTHING like owning a Harley.
Make all the excuses you want but once you're able to afford one, you'll learn....or not.
Does any of that mean that all other bikes are crap or that you shouldn't buy something else? OF COURSE NOT! Buy whatever the fuck you want and keep on riding. It's all good but don't act like Harley is doing something wrong, they're not. The brand just isn't for you.....that's all.
You have no taste.
@@Ineedtotakeabreak - Harley's kick ass. You on the other hand don't.
Harley Davidson (the company) has not understood who their core customer is for my entire, overly long life. I bought my first bike, a Panhead, used, in 1962. I've always had at least one Harley in the garage ever since. So I will modestly say that I am part of their core demographic. To be kind, HD doesn't give half a crap about me and is not bashful about letting me know that. The MoCo seems to think that selling a Street Glide to some middle aged poser going though mid-life crisis is the way to go and they could be right. These customers, like those buying their mobility tricycle, do not understand the Biker lifestyle or culture at all. They do not know how to wrist a wrench. They will buy one vehicle, ride it for a couple of years and then go off to the next cool fad. If they can stay afloat marketing unreliable, way overpriced motorcycles to stupid people who have more money than brains, more power to them. HD will NEVER attract the crotch rocket crowd. Buyers wanting cheap, reliable transportation are buying Hondas. Long distance, trouble free touring with every possible comfort? Gold Wings. Prestige? BMWs.
HD core customer realizes that a new Harley will have serious design screwups and will contain a LOT of cheap, inferior parts. But they are good with wrenches and know how to rip out all the Harley crap and install high quality after market parts, which are plentiful. Well, at least until the globalists get their way and outlaw so-called anti-tampering. No sane person uses the HD Dealership service dept. Way too expensive and in many cases the service is done by some incompetent fool. That and these McDealerships are not even remotely interested in repeat business. Their goal is to get the most money possible from you any time you walk in the door. As an example, I would buy a new Breakout in a heartbeat *IF* I was confident that HD finally got all the bugs out of the M8. And if I could get a reasonable deal. i.e. ~ $20k out the door. But that isn't going to happen so I will just continue to ride my old FXSTC that still runs like a champ thanks to Fueling, V&H and a few other vendors.
Yeah harley makes good bikes, but the traditional Harley is going away. Even the bagger designs are changing. Harley has all those sky high priced CVOs that most of us could never afford, while shit canning bikes like the road king classic. Personally I think they are cutting their own throats, but I hope I'm wrong.
It is no loser bike ,as new men are weak harley will go down
Plenty of the usual child like comments by people who likely have never ridden a Harley!
Harley is aiming for the chubby lottery winner who does not care about riding and is obsessed with buying tshirts from Harley dealerships around the country and the world.. didn't ride there but have a Harley T-shirt from Cabo San Lucas or Hawaii..who cares. It's all image !!
Here in San Diego lesbians.. its fun to watch them ride .. hahaha
Kind of a pointless commentary as you answered the question in the first couple of minutes.
Like EVERYTHING these days. Aimed at WOKE people who don't ride bikes !