When I was little I found out Santa wasn't real very early, but I didn't tell my parents right away. I thought they were having so much fun playing this game with me, so I played along for them 😂
That’s actually adorable 😆 I found out through a Wayside School book of all things, where Kathy (one of the characters) start questioning how everything linked to Santa happens, and at the end when Santa comes it’s just someone dressed like him. I wasn’t bothered. I had fun exposing my mom’s lies and we were both entertained. 😆 😄
We taught our kids that Santa is a game that lots of people love to play at Christmas and that joining in is a lot more fun than raining on everyones parade. All scars avoided and we didn't have their nan moaning that we were "spoiling the magic" as she didn't find out until they were adults. Oh! How we laughed...
After my deconstruction, I watched a few Christmas movies out of tradition and was newly very bothered by "belief in nonsense is a virtue" trope that happens in most of them. I was always creeped out by Polar Express, but now it's hit the movies that I did like while growing up. With my own kids, I'm taking the Niel deGrasse Tyson approach. Once they figure it out, I'm going to praise them for figuring out the fairy story and ask how we can apply the lessons to other stories that grown-ups might tell us.
I was creeped out because I thought the aesthetic of the movie was creepy. Which is fine, except that it's marketed as warm and fuzzy. David Lynch's Christmas Special LOL 😂.
I am not so much bothered by belief in nonsense so much as I am by the demand that I believe in nonsense. I am also more bothered by how many abandon the letter of Christian belief but keep most, if not all, of its spirit.
I noticed a lot of Christmas movies that see believing in magical things as a virtue. The Santa Clause has an elf state, “…. believing is seeing,” suggesting adults become too skeptical. Meanwhile I live in a world where adults believe in conspiracy theories that are demonstrably false. I do worry about promoting magical thinking as a virtue to children.
I grew up on a farm, and until I entered school in the first grade, I didn't know people lied. I was really upset, and my mother had to sit me down and explain this. I have told people about this at times in my life, and most of them did not believe me. I was not taught that Santa, the Easter Bunny and Halloween Ghost were real.
I highly recommend teaching kids about how the story of Santa came to exist based on who St. Nicholas was. It helps teach the value of giving while keeping some of the added magic and that it’s okay to make up stories to enhance our shared experience so long as we recognize fantasy from reality.
Yeah, when I was a kid and going through my Santa doubts, that's what I eventually settled on to ease my mind. Santa as a physical entity might not exist, but I decided that perhaps in spirit he lived on in the hearts of people when we give during the holiday. Any person can be Santa.
My 5-yo granddaughter was taught the story of St Nicholas and went to her school (in the UK) and told her classmates that Santa was dead-killed by his brother. 😂 now my daughter has been enrolled in parenting classes.
I told my son I would never lie to him. He knows Santa is pretend. Pretend things are still really fun. It hasn’t made Christmas any less fun for him that I can tell. He’s 10 now.
Santa is just as real as money, and we all know how much that matters. Social constructs matter even though they aren't real. When I asked my mom about Santa she told me he was a symbol and I was old enough to understand that. I did not feel betrayed or even lied to because symbols are real and they are important.
As an atheist, I still love Christmas as a secular holiday of giving to others. When my daughters were pre school age, I did promote Santa, probably because of the feeling it gave me at their sense of wonderment and excitement. I knew they would learn the truth from other kids once they started going to school, so I did have a conversation with them along the lines of "Santa" is the inner joy you feel when giving to others. They didn't seem too disappointed, and they have since grown to be wonderful humans and non religious.
I disagree with the movie "celebrating delusion". Within the context of the movie, Santa is very much real. I always thought the symbolism was that of a heros journey, and Santa and the Northpole represented a sense of enlightenment. Is there a philosophical razor I'm missing in this discussion?
Like so many narratives the Polar Express has room for multiple interpretations. While Britts is more of a negative summary and yours is more positive, I think there are numerous other possibilities also.
Yes, Santa is real within the movie's universe, but that doesn't change the fact that the boy is punished for doubting when he has very good reasons for doubting.
I loved how you explained the possibility of playing in the fantasy without the requirement of belief with your family. That is a perfect way to sum it up. I also like Neil Tyson talking about celebrating when kids use their critical thinking to find the truth. I will remember to do so when my kids figure it out. For me, I think there is a lot of room in the Santa narrative between no Santa at all, and full throated push of yes Santa is real. Our family is in the in-between. I don't talk about Santa, but my husband and I do wrap presents for our kids that we put their names on (without a "from" line, just their names) and put them under the tree on Xmas Eve. Culture takes care of the rest. So I guess you could say we are lying by omission. This is what my parents did and I feel like it gave me the magic, I believed on my own without being lied to, and then the truth was accepted when I figured it out and I didn't have hurt feelings because my parents never actually lied. Also my parents still kept the tradition going even after I stopped believing in Santa, and I enjoyed still participating in the magic of Christmas morning seeing new presents under the tree. Great video and discussion!
I grew up non religious and only watched the polar express as an adult, but I never understood the message or the fascination with the film and it made me feel uncomfortable. I had friends, some of them of my parents´ generation, who marvelled at it and couldn´t wait to share it with the children in their lives and I just never understood why. This video helped me understand some of what I felt but couldn´t articulate, thanks!
Yo it’s just a movie🤣😂What is with all this deeper meaning and saying people shouldn’t believe without evidence. Yo it’s a children’s movie telling a story not some indoctrination film forcing kids to believe in Santa 🤣🤣Not one of the million times I seen this movie have I thought I better suspend my rational thinking now like tf😂
We lied to our kids about Santa, but said mom and dad have to pay Santa even if he brings the presents. We were trying to teach less greed and sky is the limit and more economical thinking.
Growing up we all believed in god but didn't go to church. I always felt uncomfortable at church, it felt culty, strangers pretending to like you. The preacher saying weird stuff I didn't understand. I never pushed it on my kids either. We never prayed unless the religious uncle was around for the holidays. Looking back on all of it I guess I believed it because everyone else did. Funny how a lack of belief leads us down a path of finding out how stuff really works, at least for me. Great channel!
I've also deconsructed from religion (I was raised catholic, now atheist) but I still love this movie. I feel like the main message can be interpreted in a number of ways. I think it's important to note that within the context of the story, it wasn't blind faith. The whole "is this all just a dream" question is important to the plot. If he woke up the next morning with no bell but continued to believe for the rest of his life then it would be fair to call him delusional. The bell is what anchors him to reality and gives his belief merit. The question "is all this just a dream" that he asks the hobo is a question that might not just be about the story itself, but also a philosophical "is life itself is just a dream we can't wake from?" We really don't know and can't find out. If it is, then we may as well try to make it into something meaningful, otherwise what are we living for? There's this duality between the characters of the Conductor and the Ghost. The Conductor takes the kid onto a train that is warm and inviting, the train is literally insulating its passengers from the harshness of the cold outside, and he gives them delicious hot chocolate and a show. You could describe the hot chocolate scene as saccarine and maybe even selling itself like an advertisement. On the roof of the train the boy is fully exposed to the cold, it is dark and lonesome and he finds the hobo ghost, who offers him a bitter and unpleasant drink, a disgustingly made coffee. To me the conductor represents idealism and the more mechanized/fake side of christmas, while the hobo ghost represents cynicism but also truth and reality(and death at the end). It's not just the existance of santa that the kid is skeptical of, he is starting to see only the industrialization/commercislization of christmas too, he sees christmas as a robot santa, cold store displays, and the carols like a broken record. He is going blind to any optimism and cheerfulness of the holiday, and when a child can't even see the slightest optimism in christmas, then what else is he at risk of losing? It's a dark path to go down at an early age. The puppet that screams at the kid wasn't a clown, it was Scrooge, and I think the "doubter" thing isn't just about belief in santa itself, but in optimism in general. The ghost scares him with a scrooge puppet because, much like scrooge, the hobo ghost died cynical and alone, and he wants to make sure the kid doesn't live and die in that same miserable mindset that he did, even if he has to scare him with the reality of the possibility. The kid first saw the industrialized fake version of Christmas, but then he also learns that Santa is trying to recycle abandoned toys, which contradicts that idea of christmas that had formed in his head. He sees the kid who had nothing, and the know-it-all who is more materialistic and selfish, and Santa sets things right, the somber kid with nothing learns that he matters too and becomes lively, and the know-it-all learns some humility. There's a difference between blind faith (christianity) and relentless bleakness(nihilism), and I think the main kid finds a healthy midground at the end, he can trust in both his senses and physical/objective reality, while still believing in meaningful ideas like the the spirit of christmas, human goodwill and hope and charity, even if those concepts do take a bit of faith, they are ideas worth believing in.
With my now 13-year-old son, we never actively promoted belief in Santa Claus. My (still Christian) husband was of the opinion that we would eventually tell him enough fantastical stories about the religion that we them both were part of, so he didn't want to pile on unnecessary weirdness. We always told our son that WE got him gifts for Christmas. Once he got into preschool, though it was more of a challenge. I remember not wanting to have the kid in class who tells all the other kids that Santa isn't real and making them upset. So, for a few years, I told my son that we got him his gifts but that maybe Santa got gifts for the kids whose parents couldn't afford to. It was a tough line for me to walk.
Santas real alright but it ain't some fat MF in the north pole, and Jesus would have been the kind of kid that would cause trouble and tell all the other kids what they believe in is garbage. People don't understand what God really is and that's why ignorant people either choose not to believe or make up some BS story about a man in the sky. I'm almost definitely the only one here that even has A CLUE what I'm even talking about and 99% of the population doesn't have the humility to realize just how much that ISN'T a joke.
I’m grew up in a very fundamentalist Christian family, and as a child I often said that if my parents had taught me to believe in Santa, I wouldn’t have believed in Jesus either once I figured it out. I also struggled with my faith from a young age, wondering if I believed enough to not be left behind in the rapture. The scene in polar express where the boy realizes he can’t see Santa perfectly expressed my horror. It was terrifying.
I was literally ashamed of myself when they told me Santa wasn't real. I had just been saying how excited I was, to all my family. They made my older brother tell me, guess they didn't have the guts. I was so humiliated and I resent it to this day. I hate Santa shit, I never pushed it on my kids, and I told them to feel free to burst any other kids bubble.
If I had a nickel for every time somebody talked about polar express in negative light this week I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice
Galations 5:6. "...but faith works through love." I believe that love should definitely be emphasized but I was not taught it this way. There is no fear in love. Perfect love casts out fear. When I put this together I seek love first.
When my parents told me at a very young age that everyone outside our religion was going to hell including all our neighbors that's when I started not believing in god. When they finally told me there was no Santa that's when I started to not trust them or my older siblings who already knew.
How you dropped that "ThEsE aRe MyThS" after "...'Sportspeople are good role models' or 'anyone can succeed if they work hard'.." 😂 Sis you are now my fave youtuber... and possibly my new favourite person lol.
Hi there first time seeing the channel. Just wanted to share I’m currently 29 and my parents who are and have been Christians as long as I’ve known them were very adamant about me not believing in Santa Clause. It would literally make them angry to hear about Santa during Christmas time and I now truly understand why. I also remember loving the spectacle in this movie growing up but hating it’s themes especially when I was an atheist and rewatched with my pastor Dad as an adult. We both agreed it was toxic and dangerous. But thankfully using reason and logic I WAS able to find my way back to the REAL Christ and not the one society replaces Him with every December. Because yes most so called Christians do try to shut down the logic and critical thinking and end up believing in a metaphorical Santa as adults. If Santa were real he would be the cult leader of a works based faith and that’s not what Christianity is even though The Polar Express says so. Salvation is the free gift from Jesus that He payed completely for and like you said is NOT transactional. And I may not be a theological expert enough to say this next part but in my opinion faith is not a virtue and especially not the strongest one but it is simply our gateway to receiving the gift of salvation. Because you can’t receive a gift with out accepting it and you can’t accept it without believing through faith. Anyways I just wanted to state that because there seriously needs to be a resurgence of the correct use of many terms when it comes to basic Christian theology and more - like not lying to your kids about something but expecting them to believe the other thing that has similar elements. They’ll end up not believing both because of lack of trust. God Bless and have a Merry Christmas!
I was raised 'mostly atheist". My Mother and Aunt had adopted the Bahai faith as part of 60's counterculture and I got a lot of my early social development at the weekend prayer and pot luck 'feasts'. When I became a parent I seriously considered adopting a faith so my son could have similar opportunities. It would have meant lying to him, and lying to others while he watched. Eventually I would have had to tell him him it had been a sham, and that I never actually believed. I am really glad that idea died, I have learned plenty since then, and know how harmful it could have been. I struggle to find ways to replace that social development I got hanging out in spare rooms with the other kids as the adults talked to their chosen deity. I am confident I made the right choice though, the degree to which he imitates me is scary sometimes. Heh heh, wrote this while listening and just got to the last couple minutes, ahhhhhh, validation, nothing better!
watched this movie today and I was so creeped out by all the subliminal messages like the eagle feeding the ticket to its baby and then spitting it out
At what point does a healthy suspension of disbelief, a skill we can exercise to improve our experience of fiction, become a blind faith or even a rejection of reality? I think there’s a flexibility of mind that can use the “magic” of such a suspension of disbelief, or even a temporary believing attitude, that enhances the life of the mind without getting lost in unreality.
Among the many hours of crap that certain other people's children watched while I was around, this one movie in particular made me uneasy. Even though I was still a struggling, yet doubting Christian at the time, (but no more) this movie didn't sit well with me and I left the room whenever it was being watched. Thank you for articulating what I couldn't put into words back then. Cognitive dissonance can be a strong impairment to forming and expressing opinions. Likewise, the subconscious ramifications of realizing that your parents have lied to you about Santa can have far reaching effects on a kid's psyche. Parental trust is forever undermined by this stupid deception. Don't tell this lie to kids! I know from personal experience how damaging it is. You are definitely NOT too triggered over the Polar Expess, it is a uniquely disturbing movie.
I enjoy a little magic if it’s rooted in mystery, not faith. I enjoy fantasy stories for exactly what they are. I love to learn about mythology and teach my children all the stories, sometimes I feel bad that I am so logical with them, a little bit of shame rearing its head from my brainwashed years in Christianity but… I think you’re spot on! Completely agree ❤
My parents always put letters from Santa in with their Santa gifts and I think I’m gonna make a special Santa gifts and letters and say they’re from me
I have mixed feelings about stuff like this as I'm a big horror, sci fi and fantasy fan and as such don't have an intrinsic problem with the whole "that weird thing we didn't start out believing in at the beginning of the story turned out to be true!" trope. Though even in those genres, skepticism within the stories on the part of the characters is handled poorly. Treated as a dogma they hold, often based on a personal flaw.
I might be missing your point here but I don't think your conclusions apply one hundred percent to The Polar Express. Imo the movie makes it pretty clear that Santa actually exists in that universe so the concept of belief in The Polar Express isn't the same as the one when we talk about religious belief. Again, and I can't stress this enough, I completely agree with your overall point about the dangers of demonizing critical thinking and praising blind belief but I don't think that equating a very real Santa in The Polar Express with a made up deity in our world is a solid comparison. (You definitely made some valid points about the film, though!)
I disagree. I wouldn’t praise an adult believing in Santa but wouldn’t be concerned. An adult believing in faeries doesn’t mean they’re a danger to themselves or other people.
My stepdad believes in aliens. He almost crashed the car because he thought he saw a UFO and wanted to film it. Also, believing in fairytales has caused nothing but suffering for the entire world. We've had whole wars because people didn't worship their fairytales the same way.
TIL That Britt Hartley hates *The Polar Express*. I was fortunate to avoid this film. I wanted to let you know that I've been reading Dostoyevsky's *Notes from Underground* and so much of what the underground man says very saliently reminds me of your thoughts about nihilism; that Dostoyevsky's character lives in the very heart of the void. He reminds me of several other authors, as well. Thinking of your work and also *Everywhere at the End of Time*, I had a realization the other day that if building a life worth living at the level of experience entails understanding that everything we do is like building sandcastles, then our minds and egos are the ultimate sandcastles. To spend so many hours cultivating knowledge, wisdom, experience, and identity, feels like a great and worthy adventure, but it is also tragic that we will all die, decay, and be forgotten within several generations. I have pondered that each of us does make some contribution to the human supraorganism, but even that is mortal on a long enough timeline.
Films have a huge impact on a society, i remember watching the old Santa Claus is coming to town and Rudolph the red nose reindeer just to name two and as an adult i can see,the lack of a better way to describe those films,cute fantasy,i maybe being i little petty but there was a scene in santa coming to town in land of misfit toys teaching children to have empathy for not so perfect toys not bad thing,but when in other scenes comments where made about it won't be Christmas without whatever,toys, Christmas trees, light,ect,that to me is the problem.
as someone that has Celebrated yule for many years, celebrating the shortest day of the year, and the days getting longer. what i dont undestand is how, did the middle eastern holiday get a Yule tree, Yule raindeer, YULE decorations, YULE food. how did this happen, shoulden't it be about a middle eastern birth of a twelve year old refugee having a child of a deity that got her pregnant. with barn animals, camels, goats, cows horses, also middle eastern MAGI. why is Christmas in YULE.
Because Christians are thieves and used Yule to convert people. Same with the Spring Equinox. Their own Bible even says not to take other people's holidays, but they love only following the parts that they want to follow.
I understand the logic of what she is saying whether I would guess that she probably is not very good at relationships faith is kind of the thing that glues people together
Parents Lying to their kids about them fighting is harmful and kids already know. They are not as dumb as grown-ups think. The Santa thing isn't going to make your kids liars. That's dumb. Parents need to actually teach their kids right from wrong and to have empathy.
How do you handle your kid’s desire to inform their cousins/ friends who are still under the Santa delusion? Do you teach them to honor other parent’s lies?
I really didn't like Polar Express. I didn't like the portrayal of Santa's North Pole. It wasn't a warm and cute toy making workshop. It looked like an industrialized, capitalistic, commercialized hellscape that traumatizes workers (elves) and children. Plus, in general, it was a creepy movie.
Faith isn't the greatest or God's highest moral value, Love is. . . St Paul spoke of this. Faith, Love, Hope and the greatest of these is Love. I'm sure you know that. Also, the whole Christmas thing. If we didn't have coloured lights, a jolly deliverer of gifts, tinsel, baubles, wrapping paper and everything else we would be in the darkest, coldest December. Four months of darkness. All of member is lit up, festive giving and, at times, joyful. Children's hymns. You just can't deny it. It's a good spell.
Screw this movie! I watch Krampus every year! hahahaha......for 25 years a professional multi instrumentalist and a christian, I was hired by mega churches in California and devoted my self to giving the best I had to offer for thousands of followers, and upon waking up from my delusion left the faith ( Blood Cult ) and not one who claimed they loved me in the lord has anything to do with me! But thats a good thing. Love your channel and share with others on social sites!
I haven't seen Krampus, so I'll have to check it out. I have come to love Violent Night and I have a personal tradition of watching it in summertime now.
I kinda like the anti Santa movies too but now I just don't care. I'm still Christian but I'm sorry the mega churches were bad, I'm not shocked, most are
I used to watch all anti Santa movies I'm Christian and I'm sorry mega churches were bad, I mean nothing worse than disappointment by supposed church family, many who call self Christian are actually just the Sunday type though
@@AshePBlack I don't interfere with what people believe and if being a christian gets you through life than ok. I have many reasons not just the church and fake pastors for my exit which I won't go into.
I didn't grow up with the Polar Express book like many of my generation, but I did see the movie when it first came out, and have been ridiculed for years for my dislike of it. I'm happy to see I'm not alone.☺️
I so wish I hadn't lied to my kids about Santa. It was the only story we told them as atheist parents and now they've had to deconstruct it all. If I had my time again...
Wow! I have to watch it now! And I don't even like Christmas, or Christmas movies except a select few, like the Grinch (the old cartoon one ,with Boris Karloff)
There is a song by Greg lake of ELP. That draws the same parody that you did between Santa and God. Till I woke with a yawn in the first light of dawn and I saw him and through his disguise.
You've really missed the mark on this one and fallen in into the trap of modernity. As Augustine pointed out long ago, "do not seek to understand in order to believe but rather believe in order to understand." There are some things in life where we have to initially surrender our current rational understanding in order to gain a new perspective that could be called transrational. Transrational is not irrational but it does go beyond our reason as a mode of knowledge. Your problem with the clown scene and the boy's doubt is missed placed. There is no shaming going on in this scene. Rather, this scene falls later in the movie. Having gotten on the Polar Express the boy hero has experienced a complete and radical shift in his understanding and yet he still doubts. He reminds me of a Thomas who has touched the hands and side of the Lord and still doubts. At some point, it is irrational to maintain doubt. As the movie shows, one has to make belief and intention or an act of will. Finally, I would not be embracing Neil deGrasse Tyson as an exemplar of the kind of open and curious approach to spiritual truths.
I am so happy to have company on this. So many of my family and friends have teased me for hating this movie for the same reasons you give. In fact many of my family members are used to me asking them why faith and I sarcastically tease about hearing the bell.
Oh wow. So now I have two (of many I’m sure) Xmas cultural fluff things that I really really really want to love but just can’t. at least not 100%. Baby it’s cold outside, and the Polar Express. We told our kids the objective truth about Santa before they were sure. My second child might not have even been questioning it. (To be honest I was over letting some fat man in a red suit get all the credit for the cool presents.) Ive only really started deconstructing my Christianity in the last year or so. I can still feel the pull towards wanting to believe. I still get teary eyed at the end of Polar Express. But it’s kitch. I do believe in magic. Even if its just psychosomatic, lighting candles “enchanted” towards being successful or burning my grudges away ritually in a backyard campfire on the summer solstice works. It helps. Works is works. But I’m leaning into believing that the magic is in me. And after that, maybe, that it’s not really needed at all. Talk about pulling the tower card. Thank you for this.
The biggest proof for me is the effect of proof of God's existence is the effect's of His instructions on the human life. I've seen the majority of this without faith and where it leads. We have to have guiding principles or standards, that will be so important in one's life that they will transcend even one's life. Otherwise; all you have is your own pride. Atheists and agnostics have no absolute guiding principles.
I always thought the movie was creepy but watched because the music was pretty. The kidnapping aspect was weird to me. lol hey little kids, wanna ride to the North Pole? I mean I guess it was a train not a creepy van but even so. They don’t know the train conductor
Always hated that film. The uncanny valley of the 3d models creeped me the hell out. And of course, the cringe narrative about religious endoctrination. Almost like santa is the gateway drug to god.
Too often faith is confused with mandatory belief. And has anybody else noticed how many of the paragons of critical thinking believe in the Government the way Bible thumpers do in Jesus?
The Polar Express is probably my least favorite Holiday Movie, but before today it was not for the reasons that really bug you. But now that you pointed it out, I have another good reason to dislike the movie. Why is Faith stressed so much and listed as a virtue? It has been replaced in my lexicon with the word gullibility.
Well he started believing is because he couldn't hear the Bell ring when everyone else could hear it and he said i believe and then he could her the Bell.
Wow , a cute cartoon😢 triggered you so much . I’m feel sad that you had such unpleasant experiences with religion that made “ faith” an ugly word . If this had been said already , my apologies . For me , faith at the most fundamental level without any relation to religion , is an essential component of personal transformation and growth . With regards to spirituality and the transcendent , faith also plays a crucial role ….. _ the whole secret of mysticism is this : that man can understand everything by the help of what he does not understand. The morbid logician seeks to make everything lucid, and succeeds in making everything mysterious. The Mystic allows one thing to be mysterious. and everything else becomes lucid._ - GK Chesterton
I don't see any difference between Santa, the US version, and Harry Potter, Dumbledore, the Forbidden Forest, wands, etc. We were told Santa wasn't real from the time we were little. In those days, Santa was fun...just fun. There's no difference between a Santa idea compared to a Harry Potter idea. Both are to teach the difference between good and bad. Actually, in the story of Harry Potter, there is more realness in that story than you may believe, such as bad and good spirits. There are evil forces in this world which I see being very close to He who should not be named. That whole thing is scary, and for a child of 3-11, that should be handled very carefully. I would never show HP to a 5 year old.
ok - first, i did NOT seek this video out - it came up on my YT channel. i probably shouldn't have even brought up the video; because, i had a feeling as to what i was going to hear - and, sadly, you did not disappoint in that regard. that being said, lets get this over with.i did (out of curiosity) listen to your entire video as you asked. unfortunately, what i think about your views and the type of person you appear to be is not positive in any way - and i'm trying to be decent in how i phrase it - so i won't go into gory detail. i really doubt it's not just christmas that sets you off and more than likely you take issue with many other traditions in life. and what a shame for your kids to have such a jaded and cynical mother. i'll leave it at that. btw- when you said you were going to "die on that hill", you were right. it was "custers last stand" for sure.
When I was little I found out Santa wasn't real very early, but I didn't tell my parents right away. I thought they were having so much fun playing this game with me, so I played along for them 😂
That’s actually adorable 😆 I found out through a Wayside School book of all things, where Kathy (one of the characters) start questioning how everything linked to Santa happens, and at the end when Santa comes it’s just someone dressed like him. I wasn’t bothered. I had fun exposing my mom’s lies and we were both entertained. 😆 😄
That's very thoughtful of you.
Award for most believable bs goes too.... not you
@@DoofenSpyroDragon16 I found out when I saw the gifts "hidden" in a closet. By saw I mean I was told to stay away but looked anyway 😆 oh well
I have not seen this movie and so can't judge either way, but I didn't realize that it was such a... polarizing film.
Oh I see what you did there! Nice.
We taught our kids that Santa is a game that lots of people love to play at Christmas and that joining in is a lot more fun than raining on everyones parade. All scars avoided and we didn't have their nan moaning that we were "spoiling the magic" as she didn't find out until they were adults. Oh! How we laughed...
That’s such a good way to include your kids in the fun without lying to them!
After my deconstruction, I watched a few Christmas movies out of tradition and was newly very bothered by "belief in nonsense is a virtue" trope that happens in most of them. I was always creeped out by Polar Express, but now it's hit the movies that I did like while growing up. With my own kids, I'm taking the Niel deGrasse Tyson approach. Once they figure it out, I'm going to praise them for figuring out the fairy story and ask how we can apply the lessons to other stories that grown-ups might tell us.
I was creeped out because I thought the aesthetic of the movie was creepy. Which is fine, except that it's marketed as warm and fuzzy. David Lynch's Christmas Special LOL 😂.
I am not so much bothered by belief in nonsense so much as I am by the demand that I believe in nonsense. I am also more bothered by how many abandon the letter of Christian belief but keep most, if not all, of its spirit.
I noticed a lot of Christmas movies that see believing in magical things as a virtue.
The Santa Clause has an elf state, “…. believing is seeing,” suggesting adults become too skeptical. Meanwhile I live in a world where adults believe in conspiracy theories that are demonstrably false. I do worry about promoting magical thinking as a virtue to children.
Magic culture actually sucks, they present false empowerment but there's way more bad consequences and Santa and other myths are merely gateway
Very few conspiracy theories were untrue.
I grew up on a farm, and until I entered school in the first grade, I didn't know people lied. I was really upset, and my mother had to sit me down and explain this. I have told people about this at times in my life, and most of them did not believe me. I was not taught that Santa, the Easter Bunny and Halloween Ghost were real.
I highly recommend teaching kids about how the story of Santa came to exist based on who St. Nicholas was. It helps teach the value of giving while keeping some of the added magic and that it’s okay to make up stories to enhance our shared experience so long as we recognize fantasy from reality.
Yeah, when I was a kid and going through my Santa doubts, that's what I eventually settled on to ease my mind. Santa as a physical entity might not exist, but I decided that perhaps in spirit he lived on in the hearts of people when we give during the holiday. Any person can be Santa.
My 5-yo granddaughter was taught the story of St Nicholas and went to her school (in the UK) and told her classmates that Santa was dead-killed by his brother. 😂 now my daughter has been enrolled in parenting classes.
"Magical thinking" is the opposite of "critical thinking". Magical thinking is linked to many, many human failures and disappointments.
And embarassment.
I told my son I would never lie to him. He knows Santa is pretend. Pretend things are still really fun. It hasn’t made Christmas any less fun for him that I can tell. He’s 10 now.
Santa is just as real as money, and we all know how much that matters. Social constructs matter even though they aren't real. When I asked my mom about Santa she told me he was a symbol and I was old enough to understand that. I did not feel betrayed or even lied to because symbols are real and they are important.
As an atheist, I still love Christmas as a secular holiday of giving to others.
When my daughters were pre school age, I did promote Santa, probably because of the feeling it gave me at their sense of wonderment and excitement. I knew they would learn the truth from other kids once they started going to school, so I did have a conversation with them along the lines of "Santa" is the inner joy you feel when giving to others. They didn't seem too disappointed, and they have since grown to be wonderful humans and non religious.
Faith is not a moral virtue but it plays one on TV.
One of the BEST lines ever! May I quote you?
Then....what would you state Faith is?
@@priscillacoffey4379 A trap that people all too readily fall into.
@@royhampton2366 Of course
@@priscillacoffey4379 Belief, in the absence of evidence.
This was my first video. Lots of great points. My Religious deconstruction is ongoing so I got to check out more of your work.
I disagree with the movie "celebrating delusion". Within the context of the movie, Santa is very much real. I always thought the symbolism was that of a heros journey, and Santa and the Northpole represented a sense of enlightenment. Is there a philosophical razor I'm missing in this discussion?
Thank you! Denying the existence of a man you actually met and interacted with is delusional.
Like so many narratives the Polar Express has room for multiple interpretations.
While Britts is more of a negative summary and yours
is more positive, I think there are numerous other possibilities also.
Yeah, I think Santa is just real in that movie’s universe.
Yes, Santa is real within the movie's universe, but that doesn't change the fact that the boy is punished for doubting when he has very good reasons for doubting.
It's not faith that's the problem: it's *blind* faith.
I loved how you explained the possibility of playing in the fantasy without the requirement of belief with your family. That is a perfect way to sum it up. I also like Neil Tyson talking about celebrating when kids use their critical thinking to find the truth. I will remember to do so when my kids figure it out. For me, I think there is a lot of room in the Santa narrative between no Santa at all, and full throated push of yes Santa is real. Our family is in the in-between. I don't talk about Santa, but my husband and I do wrap presents for our kids that we put their names on (without a "from" line, just their names) and put them under the tree on Xmas Eve. Culture takes care of the rest. So I guess you could say we are lying by omission. This is what my parents did and I feel like it gave me the magic, I believed on my own without being lied to, and then the truth was accepted when I figured it out and I didn't have hurt feelings because my parents never actually lied. Also my parents still kept the tradition going even after I stopped believing in Santa, and I enjoyed still participating in the magic of Christmas morning seeing new presents under the tree.
Great video and discussion!
I grew up non religious and only watched the polar express as an adult, but I never understood the message or the fascination with the film and it made me feel uncomfortable. I had friends, some of them of my parents´ generation, who marvelled at it and couldn´t wait to share it with the children in their lives and I just never understood why. This video helped me understand some of what I felt but couldn´t articulate, thanks!
Yo it’s just a movie🤣😂What is with all this deeper meaning and saying people shouldn’t believe without evidence. Yo it’s a children’s movie telling a story not some indoctrination film forcing kids to believe in Santa 🤣🤣Not one of the million times I seen this movie have I thought I better suspend my rational thinking now like tf😂
We lied to our kids about Santa, but said mom and dad have to pay Santa even if he brings the presents. We were trying to teach less greed and sky is the limit and more economical thinking.
Does Santa use Venmo?
I am so grateful that I found your channel! Thank you soooo much.
Growing up we all believed in god but didn't go to church. I always felt uncomfortable at church, it felt culty, strangers pretending to like you. The preacher saying weird stuff I didn't understand. I never pushed it on my kids either. We never prayed unless the religious uncle was around for the holidays. Looking back on all of it I guess I believed it because everyone else did. Funny how a lack of belief leads us down a path of finding out how stuff really works, at least for me. Great channel!
I've also deconsructed from religion (I was raised catholic, now atheist) but I still love this movie. I feel like the main message can be interpreted in a number of ways. I think it's important to note that within the context of the story, it wasn't blind faith. The whole "is this all just a dream" question is important to the plot. If he woke up the next morning with no bell but continued to believe for the rest of his life then it would be fair to call him delusional. The bell is what anchors him to reality and gives his belief merit. The question "is all this just a dream" that he asks the hobo is a question that might not just be about the story itself, but also a philosophical "is life itself is just a dream we can't wake from?" We really don't know and can't find out. If it is, then we may as well try to make it into something meaningful, otherwise what are we living for? There's this duality between the characters of the Conductor and the Ghost. The Conductor takes the kid onto a train that is warm and inviting, the train is literally insulating its passengers from the harshness of the cold outside, and he gives them delicious hot chocolate and a show. You could describe the hot chocolate scene as saccarine and maybe even selling itself like an advertisement. On the roof of the train the boy is fully exposed to the cold, it is dark and lonesome and he finds the hobo ghost, who offers him a bitter and unpleasant drink, a disgustingly made coffee. To me the conductor represents idealism and the more mechanized/fake side of christmas, while the hobo ghost represents cynicism but also truth and reality(and death at the end). It's not just the existance of santa that the kid is skeptical of, he is starting to see only the industrialization/commercislization of christmas too, he sees christmas as a robot santa, cold store displays, and the carols like a broken record. He is going blind to any optimism and cheerfulness of the holiday, and when a child can't even see the slightest optimism in christmas, then what else is he at risk of losing? It's a dark path to go down at an early age. The puppet that screams at the kid wasn't a clown, it was Scrooge, and I think the "doubter" thing isn't just about belief in santa itself, but in optimism in general. The ghost scares him with a scrooge puppet because, much like scrooge, the hobo ghost died cynical and alone, and he wants to make sure the kid doesn't live and die in that same miserable mindset that he did, even if he has to scare him with the reality of the possibility. The kid first saw the industrialized fake version of Christmas, but then he also learns that Santa is trying to recycle abandoned toys, which contradicts that idea of christmas that had formed in his head. He sees the kid who had nothing, and the know-it-all who is more materialistic and selfish, and Santa sets things right, the somber kid with nothing learns that he matters too and becomes lively, and the know-it-all learns some humility. There's a difference between blind faith (christianity) and relentless bleakness(nihilism), and I think the main kid finds a healthy midground at the end, he can trust in both his senses and physical/objective reality, while still believing in meaningful ideas like the the spirit of christmas, human goodwill and hope and charity, even if those concepts do take a bit of faith, they are ideas worth believing in.
Thank you RUclips for offering me this channel.
With my now 13-year-old son, we never actively promoted belief in Santa Claus. My (still Christian) husband was of the opinion that we would eventually tell him enough fantastical stories about the religion that we them both were part of, so he didn't want to pile on unnecessary weirdness. We always told our son that WE got him gifts for Christmas. Once he got into preschool, though it was more of a challenge. I remember not wanting to have the kid in class who tells all the other kids that Santa isn't real and making them upset. So, for a few years, I told my son that we got him his gifts but that maybe Santa got gifts for the kids whose parents couldn't afford to. It was a tough line for me to walk.
Santas real alright but it ain't some fat MF in the north pole, and Jesus would have been the kind of kid that would cause trouble and tell all the other kids what they believe in is garbage. People don't understand what God really is and that's why ignorant people either choose not to believe or make up some BS story about a man in the sky. I'm almost definitely the only one here that even has A CLUE what I'm even talking about and 99% of the population doesn't have the humility to realize just how much that ISN'T a joke.
I love your content, I think you're awesome❤ keep up the good work. Thank you.😊
I’m grew up in a very fundamentalist Christian family, and as a child I often said that if my parents had taught me to believe in Santa, I wouldn’t have believed in Jesus either once I figured it out. I also struggled with my faith from a young age, wondering if I believed enough to not be left behind in the rapture. The scene in polar express where the boy realizes he can’t see Santa perfectly expressed my horror. It was terrifying.
"Faith" is required to "Believe In Lies"
I was literally ashamed of myself when they told me Santa wasn't real. I had just been saying how excited I was, to all my family. They made my older brother tell me, guess they didn't have the guts. I was so humiliated and I resent it to this day. I hate Santa shit, I never pushed it on my kids, and I told them to feel free to burst any other kids bubble.
If I had a nickel for every time somebody talked about polar express in negative light this week I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice
@@goodman4966 you had me in the first half
Doofenshmirtz quoter! 😎
Galations 5:6. "...but faith works through love." I believe that love should definitely be emphasized but I was not taught it this way. There is no fear in love. Perfect love casts out fear. When I put this together I seek love first.
Surely the Laughing God laughs because I just so happen to ironically watch the Polar Express with my girlfriend
It’s wild how clear of a mirror it is for religion. It’s almost like it should help people realize how unreasonable their faith in god is but nope.
When my parents told me at a very young age that everyone outside our religion was going to hell including all our neighbors that's when I started not believing in god. When they finally told me there was no Santa that's when I started to not trust them or my older siblings who already knew.
How you dropped that "ThEsE aRe MyThS" after "...'Sportspeople are good role models' or 'anyone can succeed if they work hard'.." 😂
Sis you are now my fave youtuber... and possibly my new favourite person lol.
Great video. Never watched "The Polar Express" but, those clips you included, I agree, send a message that I don't want kids to learn!
Hi there first time seeing the channel. Just wanted to share I’m currently 29 and my parents who are and have been Christians as long as I’ve known them were very adamant about me not believing in Santa Clause. It would literally make them angry to hear about Santa during Christmas time and I now truly understand why. I also remember loving the spectacle in this movie growing up but hating it’s themes especially when I was an atheist and rewatched with my pastor Dad as an adult. We both agreed it was toxic and dangerous. But thankfully using reason and logic I WAS able to find my way back to the REAL Christ and not the one society replaces Him with every December. Because yes most so called Christians do try to shut down the logic and critical thinking and end up believing in a metaphorical Santa as adults. If Santa were real he would be the cult leader of a works based faith and that’s not what Christianity is even though The Polar Express says so. Salvation is the free gift from Jesus that He payed completely for and like you said is NOT transactional. And I may not be a theological expert enough to say this next part but in my opinion faith is not a virtue and especially not the strongest one but it is simply our gateway to receiving the gift of salvation. Because you can’t receive a gift with out accepting it and you can’t accept it without believing through faith. Anyways I just wanted to state that because there seriously needs to be a resurgence of the correct use of many terms when it comes to basic Christian theology and more - like not lying to your kids about something but expecting them to believe the other thing that has similar elements. They’ll end up not believing both because of lack of trust. God Bless and have a Merry Christmas!
I was raised 'mostly atheist". My Mother and Aunt had adopted the Bahai faith as part of 60's counterculture and I got a lot of my early social development at the weekend prayer and pot luck 'feasts'.
When I became a parent I seriously considered adopting a faith so my son could have similar opportunities. It would have meant lying to him, and lying to others while he watched. Eventually I would have had to tell him him it had been a sham, and that I never actually believed. I am really glad that idea died, I have learned plenty since then, and know how harmful it could have been.
I struggle to find ways to replace that social development I got hanging out in spare rooms with the other kids as the adults talked to their chosen deity. I am confident I made the right choice though, the degree to which he imitates me is scary sometimes.
Heh heh, wrote this while listening and just got to the last couple minutes, ahhhhhh, validation, nothing better!
watched this movie today and I was so creeped out by all the subliminal messages like the eagle feeding the ticket to its baby and then spitting it out
At what point does a healthy suspension of disbelief, a skill we can exercise to improve our experience of fiction, become a blind faith or even a rejection of reality?
I think there’s a flexibility of mind that can use the “magic” of such a suspension of disbelief, or even a temporary believing attitude, that enhances the life of the mind without getting lost in unreality.
Among the many hours of crap that certain other people's children watched while I was around, this one movie in particular made me uneasy. Even though I was still a struggling, yet doubting Christian at the time, (but no more) this movie didn't sit well with me and I left the room whenever it was being watched. Thank you for articulating what I couldn't put into words back then. Cognitive dissonance can be a strong impairment to forming and expressing opinions. Likewise, the subconscious ramifications of realizing that your parents have lied to you about Santa can have far reaching effects on a kid's psyche. Parental trust is forever undermined by this stupid deception. Don't tell this lie to kids! I know from personal experience how damaging it is. You are definitely NOT too triggered over the Polar Expess, it is a uniquely disturbing movie.
Believing *is* seeing. As opposite to the words of the hitchhiker ghost, "seeing is believing."
Reality is created. In the beginning was the word.
Santa teaches the joy of giving.
I enjoy a little magic if it’s rooted in mystery, not faith. I enjoy fantasy stories for exactly what they are. I love to learn about mythology and teach my children all the stories, sometimes I feel bad that I am so logical with them, a little bit of shame rearing its head from my brainwashed years in Christianity but…
I think you’re spot on! Completely agree ❤
My parents always put letters from Santa in with their Santa gifts and I think I’m gonna make a special Santa gifts and letters and say they’re from me
Am I losing my testimony in No Nonsense Spirituality?
@@MormonNewsRoundup careful or I’ll excommunicate you lol
I have mixed feelings about stuff like this as I'm a big horror, sci fi and fantasy fan and as such don't have an intrinsic problem with the whole "that weird thing we didn't start out believing in at the beginning of the story turned out to be true!" trope.
Though even in those genres, skepticism within the stories on the part of the characters is handled poorly. Treated as a dogma they hold, often based on a personal flaw.
This is insane.
I might be missing your point here but I don't think your conclusions apply one hundred percent to The Polar Express. Imo the movie makes it pretty clear that Santa actually exists in that universe so the concept of belief in The Polar Express isn't the same as the one when we talk about religious belief. Again, and I can't stress this enough, I completely agree with your overall point about the dangers of demonizing critical thinking and praising blind belief but I don't think that equating a very real Santa in The Polar Express with a made up deity in our world is a solid comparison. (You definitely made some valid points about the film, though!)
I disagree. I wouldn’t praise an adult believing in Santa but wouldn’t be concerned. An adult believing in faeries doesn’t mean they’re a danger to themselves or other people.
My stepdad believes in aliens. He almost crashed the car because he thought he saw a UFO and wanted to film it.
Also, believing in fairytales has caused nothing but suffering for the entire world. We've had whole wars because people didn't worship their fairytales the same way.
TIL That Britt Hartley hates *The Polar Express*. I was fortunate to avoid this film.
I wanted to let you know that I've been reading Dostoyevsky's *Notes from Underground* and so much of what the underground man says very saliently reminds me of your thoughts about nihilism; that Dostoyevsky's character lives in the very heart of the void. He reminds me of several other authors, as well.
Thinking of your work and also *Everywhere at the End of Time*, I had a realization the other day that if building a life worth living at the level of experience entails understanding that everything we do is like building sandcastles, then our minds and egos are the ultimate sandcastles. To spend so many hours cultivating knowledge, wisdom, experience, and identity, feels like a great and worthy adventure, but it is also tragic that we will all die, decay, and be forgotten within several generations.
I have pondered that each of us does make some contribution to the human supraorganism, but even that is mortal on a long enough timeline.
I watched the film as a kid, and i never really understood the story.
Alright. You win for the most interesting video title of December lol
It did make me laugh!
Must’ve blocked those puppets from my memory, I don’t remember that scene at all, that’s terrifying lol
There are several movies that promote this blind faith belief in Santa is a virtue. "The Santa Clause" series for example.
Great insight!
Ty for sharing.
Films have a huge impact on a society, i remember watching the old Santa Claus is coming to town and Rudolph the red nose reindeer just to name two and as an adult i can see,the lack of a better way to describe those films,cute fantasy,i maybe being i little petty but there was a scene in santa coming to town in land of misfit toys teaching children to have empathy for not so perfect toys not bad thing,but when in other scenes comments where made about it won't be Christmas without whatever,toys, Christmas trees, light,ect,that to me is the problem.
Faith is the excuse people give, when they don't have a good enough reason or evidence to believe something.
as someone that has Celebrated yule for many years, celebrating the shortest day of the year, and the days getting longer. what i dont undestand is how, did the middle eastern holiday get a Yule tree, Yule raindeer, YULE decorations, YULE food. how did this happen, shoulden't it be about a middle eastern birth of a twelve year old refugee having a child of a deity that got her pregnant. with barn animals, camels, goats, cows horses, also middle eastern MAGI. why is Christmas in YULE.
Because Christians are thieves and used Yule to convert people. Same with the Spring Equinox.
Their own Bible even says not to take other people's holidays, but they love only following the parts that they want to follow.
I understand the logic of what she is saying whether I would guess that she probably is not very good at relationships faith is kind of the thing that glues people together
Parents Lying to their kids about them fighting is harmful and kids already know. They are not as dumb as grown-ups think. The Santa thing isn't going to make your kids liars. That's dumb. Parents need to actually teach their kids right from wrong and to have empathy.
How do you handle your kid’s desire to inform their cousins/ friends who are still under the Santa delusion? Do you teach them to honor other parent’s lies?
Yes
Spot on. Golden Compass is better by leaps and bounds.
There's the movie and the HBO series of "his dark materials".
Better than most YA fantasy by far.
You have much faith in what you know, have you faith in what you do not know? For one thing I know is that I know nothing.
Why Celebrate Christmas at all if you don't believe in it...
We could celebrate one another instead☀️
People will believe in anything to cope with the ills of life, my problem is when you coerce people into only believing one thing
I really didn't like Polar Express. I didn't like the portrayal of Santa's North Pole. It wasn't a warm and cute toy making workshop. It looked like an industrialized, capitalistic, commercialized hellscape that traumatizes workers (elves) and children. Plus, in general, it was a creepy movie.
The way you described the North Pole is exactly what Christmas is. I don't know if the creators did it intentionally though
I never noticed that in the movie. I still like the movie but understand your view.
I always knew I didn’t like that movie for some reason. I haven’t seen it since my faith deconstruction.
Faith isn't the greatest or God's highest moral value, Love is. . . St Paul spoke of this. Faith, Love, Hope and the greatest of these is Love. I'm sure you know that. Also, the whole Christmas thing. If we didn't have coloured lights, a jolly deliverer of gifts, tinsel, baubles, wrapping paper and everything else we would be in the darkest, coldest December. Four months of darkness. All of member is lit up, festive giving and, at times, joyful. Children's hymns. You just can't deny it. It's a good spell.
Screw this movie! I watch Krampus every year! hahahaha......for 25 years a professional multi instrumentalist and a christian, I was hired by mega churches in California and devoted my self to giving the best I had to offer for thousands of followers, and upon waking up from my delusion left the faith ( Blood Cult ) and not one who claimed they loved me in the lord has anything to do with me! But thats a good thing. Love your channel and share with others on social sites!
I haven't seen Krampus, so I'll have to check it out. I have come to love Violent Night and I have a personal tradition of watching it in summertime now.
@@vivianriver6450 Hmmm....I'll check that out thanx!
I kinda like the anti Santa movies too but now I just don't care. I'm still Christian but I'm sorry the mega churches were bad, I'm not shocked, most are
I used to watch all anti Santa movies I'm Christian and I'm sorry mega churches were bad, I mean nothing worse than disappointment by supposed church family, many who call self Christian are actually just the Sunday type though
@@AshePBlack I don't interfere with what people believe and if being a christian gets you through life than ok. I have many reasons not just the church and fake pastors for my exit which I won't go into.
I didn't grow up with the Polar Express book like many of my generation, but I did see the movie when it first came out, and have been ridiculed for years for my dislike of it. I'm happy to see I'm not alone.☺️
Oh god that movie lived rent free in my nightmares as a child. I remember my brother and I not even being able to finish it 😭
I'm an atheist, but I think this movie is simply about xmas not jeeeeezus. I would recommend not to over think things.
I so wish I hadn't lied to my kids about Santa. It was the only story we told them as atheist parents and now they've had to deconstruct it all. If I had my time again...
Wow! I have to watch it now! And I don't even like Christmas, or Christmas movies except a select few, like the Grinch (the old cartoon one ,with Boris Karloff)
I have never liked this stupid movie. Nothing to do with religion for me. I have just always thought it was ignorant.
There is a song by Greg lake of ELP. That draws the same parody that you did between Santa and God. Till I woke with a yawn in the first light of dawn and I saw him and through his disguise.
Pebbles (pet dog) has been sent to a farm. Mum told all my siblings this story but told me the truth. I don't know why she did that.
She did it cos she felt you were emotionally mature enough to handle the truth and respected your right to know the truth, I would suspect anyway.
I regret my 3 years in religion.
It has seriously fucked me up
You've really missed the mark on this one and fallen in into the trap of modernity. As Augustine pointed out long ago, "do not seek to understand in order to believe but rather believe in order to understand." There are some things in life where we have to initially surrender our current rational understanding in order to gain a new perspective that could be called transrational. Transrational is not irrational but it does go beyond our reason as a mode of knowledge.
Your problem with the clown scene and the boy's doubt is missed placed. There is no shaming going on in this scene. Rather, this scene falls later in the movie. Having gotten on the Polar Express the boy hero has experienced a complete and radical shift in his understanding and yet he still doubts. He reminds me of a Thomas who has touched the hands and side of the Lord and still doubts. At some point, it is irrational to maintain doubt. As the movie shows, one has to make belief and intention or an act of will.
Finally, I would not be embracing Neil deGrasse Tyson as an exemplar of the kind of open and curious approach to spiritual truths.
I blame Disney for promoting magical thinking to kids.
Isn't that what all religions are? Magical thinking?
Disney just jumped into a very well tread path of make believe narratives.
At least they grow out of it, whereas people will believe in their gods until the day they die.
Chiiiiiiiiiiiiihu!!!! Even as a believer I HATED this fucking movie! It's such a terrible message.
I am so happy to have company on this. So many of my family and friends have teased me for hating this movie for the same reasons you give. In fact many of my family members are used to me asking them why faith and I sarcastically tease about hearing the bell.
Everyone knows Santa is not real.
We got yer back (as they say). You're not gonna die on THAT hill.
@@AmySerrat I am going to be killed for one my hills though at some point lol
Oh wow. So now I have two (of many I’m sure) Xmas cultural fluff things that I really really really want to love but just can’t. at least not 100%. Baby it’s cold outside, and the Polar Express. We told our kids the objective truth about Santa before they were sure. My second child might not have even been questioning it. (To be honest I was over letting some fat man in a red suit get all the credit for the cool presents.) Ive only really started deconstructing my Christianity in the last year or so. I can still feel the pull towards wanting to believe. I still get teary eyed at the end of Polar Express. But it’s kitch. I do believe in magic. Even if its just psychosomatic, lighting candles “enchanted” towards being successful or burning my grudges away ritually in a backyard campfire on the summer solstice works. It helps. Works is works. But I’m leaning into believing that the magic is in me. And after that, maybe, that it’s not really needed at all. Talk about pulling the tower card. Thank you for this.
The biggest proof for me is the effect of proof of God's existence is the effect's of His instructions on the human life. I've seen the majority of this without faith and where it leads. We have to have guiding principles or standards, that will be so important in one's life that they will transcend even one's life. Otherwise; all you have is your own pride. Atheists and agnostics have no absolute guiding principles.
I always thought the movie was creepy but watched because the music was pretty. The kidnapping aspect was weird to me. lol hey little kids, wanna ride to the North Pole? I mean I guess it was a train not a creepy van but even so. They don’t know the train conductor
As someone who loves history.....I wouldn't trust a random train
Always hated that film. The uncanny valley of the 3d models creeped me the hell out. And of course, the cringe narrative about religious endoctrination. Almost like santa is the gateway drug to god.
Too often faith is confused with mandatory belief.
And has anybody else noticed how many of the paragons of critical thinking believe in the Government the way Bible thumpers do in Jesus?
"Symbolism" look it up
Love your channel 🤎
The Polar Express is probably my least favorite Holiday Movie, but before today it was not for the reasons that really bug you. But now that you pointed it out, I have another good reason to dislike the movie. Why is Faith stressed so much and listed as a virtue? It has been replaced in my lexicon with the word gullibility.
Well he started believing is because he couldn't hear the Bell ring when everyone else could hear it and he said i believe and then he could her the Bell.
Wow , a cute cartoon😢 triggered you so much . I’m feel sad that you had such unpleasant experiences with religion that made “ faith” an ugly word .
If this had been said already , my apologies . For me , faith at the most fundamental level without any relation to religion , is an essential component of personal transformation and growth . With regards to spirituality and the transcendent , faith also plays a crucial role …..
_ the whole secret of mysticism is this : that man can understand everything by the help of what he does not understand. The morbid logician seeks to make everything lucid, and succeeds in making everything mysterious. The Mystic allows one thing to be mysterious. and everything else becomes lucid._
- GK Chesterton
Pass 🤦🏻
Also, why aren't you on BlueSky? o_O
@@AmySerrat I’m too old for new technology
Although I have seen clips, I have never seen the film.
Yeah, the doubter scene alone is enough for me to give it a thumbs down.
I don't see any difference between Santa, the US version, and Harry Potter, Dumbledore, the Forbidden Forest, wands, etc. We were told Santa wasn't real from the time we were little. In those days, Santa was fun...just fun. There's no difference between a Santa idea compared to a Harry Potter idea. Both are to teach the difference between good and bad. Actually, in the story of Harry Potter, there is more realness in that story than you may believe, such as bad and good spirits. There are evil forces in this world which I see being very close to He who should not be named. That whole thing is scary, and for a child of 3-11, that should be handled very carefully. I would never show HP to a 5 year old.
I would, mom read it to me when I was too little to read it, first 3 harry potter books are fine, I'd not do 4 and up
I really don't like that movie
ok - first, i did NOT seek this video out - it came up on my YT channel. i probably shouldn't have even brought up the video; because, i had a feeling as to what i was going to hear - and, sadly, you did not disappoint in that regard. that being said, lets get this over with.i did (out of curiosity) listen to your entire video as you asked. unfortunately, what i think about your views and the type of person you appear to be is not positive in any way - and i'm trying to be decent in how i phrase it - so i won't go into gory detail. i really doubt it's not just christmas that sets you off and more than likely you take issue with many other traditions in life. and what a shame for your kids to have such a jaded and cynical mother. i'll leave it at that. btw- when you said you were going to "die on that hill", you were right. it was "custers last stand" for sure.