The thing that Dr White needs to stop doing, is acting like, or talking like, he is more qualified to talk about this issue than men like Dolezal or Barrett. Read their works and they are fully qualified and in my opinion, more knowledgeable about this issue that Dr White. Dr White needs to practice humility in this area
Benjamin Keach was one Reformed Baptist forefather who didn’t agree with the strong thomistic metaphysic, “"Anger, revenge, hatred, when attributed to God, are by some referred to (as anthropopathisms]. Where we are to note, that these words are not ascribed to God by way of anthropopathy, for God most truly, properly, and for infinite reasons, is justly angry with sinners, takes vengeance on them, or afflicts them... He truly hates sinners and hypocrites”
This statement is perfectly consistent with Thomist metaphysics. God’s ANGER or HATRED against sin is just the expression of his LOVE for what is good (i.e. Himself). God HATES all ungodliness because He LOVES Himself and his expression of these attributes in the world reveal and predicate the ONE SIMPLE GOD.
Why should God's attributes be equated with his substance(s) or essence(s)? God can be described as being loving, compassionate, logical, omnipresent, wrathful, creative, and just, all without necessarily having to possess those attributes as substances that make up His being. Why can't God simply be an ontological, albeit spiritual, entity?
I love Dr. White and think he is brilliant. But watching him struggle on this issue is pure torture. When you get down to the core of this issue, it is really pretty straightforward. The attributes we perceive as mediated through the created world (ie the prism) do not predicate distinct things in God (ie parts) they simply predicate God. In the world, we see all of God’s attributes WORKING TOGETHER to reveal God to us… the one SIMPLE BEING. But these attributes are not WORKING TOGETHER IN GOD… he is not a machine composed of parts that work together… He is one simple being. All of the attributes predicate the same thing… God. Unfortunately, Dr. White’s failure to understand this point is also the same issue that prevents Leighton Flowers from truly understanding God’s transcendence and hence his rejection of Calvinism. Both men, to some extent (although White less than Flowers) have trouble seeing that God’s essence truly transcends His creation. It is also painful to see Dr. White conflate Thomas’ scholasticism from the 13th Century with the schoolmen of the 16th Century who frequently interpreted Thomas in vastly different ways. I am not arguing the infallibility of Thomas but he was not Molina or a Jesuit hack trying to prevent or destroy the reformation. He was 300 years before any of that.
I love Dr. White and think he is brilliant. But watching him struggle on this issue is pure torture. When you get down to the core of this issue, it is really pretty straightforward. The attributes we perceive as mediated through the created world (ie the prism) do not predicate distinct things in God (ie parts) they simply predicate God. In the world, we see all of God’s attributes WORKING TOGETHER to reveal God to us… the one SIMPLE BEING. But these attributes are not WORKING TOGETHER IN GOD… he is not a machine composed of parts that work together… He is one simple being. All of the attributes predicate the same thing… God. Unfortunately, Dr. White’s failure to understand this point is also the same issue that prevents Leighton Flowers from truly understanding God’s transcendence and hence his rejection of Calvinism. Both men, to some extent (although White less than Flowers) have trouble seeing that God’s essence truly transcends His creation. It is also painful to see Dr. White conflate Thomas’ scholasticism from the 13th Century with the schoolmen of the 16th Century who frequently interpreted Thomas in vastly different ways. I am not arguing the infallibility of Thomas but he was not Molina or a Jesuit hack trying to prevent or destroy the reformation. He was 300 years before any of that.
Yes, God's attributes "work together." We agree. But those attributes should not be conflated. If, in God's revelation of Himself, we can distinguish those attributes, we cannot then proceed to imagine that those attributes, _in Himself,_ are only one with no real distinction, nor that God _is_ His attributes. If God's revelation of Himself differs from His "hidden" self, then His revelation of Himself (in Scripture and nature) is false and He cannot be glorified in that revelation.
Just being transparent…doesn’t it seem that many cannot just take in what we see in scripture that reveals the glorious attributes of God? It goes out of bounds regarding apologetics.
@@carolberubee - We don’t conflate God’s attributes IN THE WORLD. We admit that they all refer to GOD (i.e. one THING who is simple in being). If by “real distinction” in God you mean they predicate SEPARATE THINGS IN GOD then you are imaging a God made up of parts. If you don’t mean that then I don’t know what you do mean. So please clarify. We recognize a REAL distinction between his attributes IN THE WORLD GOD CREATED that reveal God… but that they all refer to and predicate God (the one simple being… i.e. ONE THING). So, when we see beauty in the world we know GOD IS AT WORK IN THE WORLD, when we see truth in the world we know GOD IS AT WORK IN THE WORLD, when we see goodness in the world we know GOD IS AT WORK IN THE WORLD, etc….. Each of those things refer TO GOD via HIS WORK in the world. The One Simple God showing us who He is THROUGH the world He creates and His activity in it. God’s revelation of himself differs from WHAT HE IS… it is the revelation of Himself THOUGH THE WORLD… as opposed to what He is in his TRANSCENDENT BEING.
@@brentonstanfield5198 _"If by “real distinction” in God you mean they predicate SEPARATE THINGS IN GOD then you are imaging a God made up of parts."_ I mean "distinct," in that, the attributes we see in the world are no different "in God." He is not made up of parts because attributes are not parts. He is One, but His attributes are not all the same. Justice is not the same as holiness; righteousness is not the same as wrath. We can see the distinction in the world, as God has revealed Himself; thus, there is that same distinction _within God._ These are not parts any more than your "soul" is made up of parts. You are one person/essence with many attributes, but you are not the sum total of your attributes, nor are your attributes all the same "within yourself."
Trinity is existance of God that explain about LordJesus. Trinity without Jesus & biblical description , is something like imagination & guessing about unrealistic figure. don't let philosophy takeover, it's dangerous, too far from revelation in bible. 😅🙏
The thing that Dr White needs to stop doing, is acting like, or talking like, he is more qualified to talk about this issue than men like Dolezal or Barrett. Read their works and they are fully qualified and in my opinion, more knowledgeable about this issue that Dr White. Dr White needs to practice humility in this area
Benjamin Keach was one Reformed Baptist forefather who didn’t agree with the strong thomistic metaphysic, “"Anger, revenge, hatred, when attributed to God, are by some referred to (as anthropopathisms]. Where we are to note, that these words are not ascribed to God by way of anthropopathy, for God most truly,
properly, and for infinite reasons, is justly angry with sinners, takes vengeance on them, or afflicts them... He truly hates sinners and hypocrites”
This statement is perfectly consistent with Thomist metaphysics. God’s ANGER or HATRED against sin is just the expression of his LOVE for what is good (i.e. Himself). God HATES all ungodliness because He LOVES Himself and his expression of these attributes in the world reveal and predicate the ONE SIMPLE GOD.
Nice back drop Dr. White
Good to see you sir!
Going to watch Jeff Durbin next
Why should God's attributes be equated with his substance(s) or essence(s)? God can be described as being loving, compassionate, logical, omnipresent, wrathful, creative, and just, all without necessarily having to possess those attributes as substances that make up His being. Why can't God simply be an ontological, albeit spiritual, entity?
The last few minutes of this video is one continuous face palm 🤦🏻♂️
I love Dr. White and think he is brilliant. But watching him struggle on this issue is pure torture. When you get down to the core of this issue, it is really pretty straightforward. The attributes we perceive as mediated through the created world (ie the prism) do not predicate distinct things in God (ie parts) they simply predicate God.
In the world, we see all of God’s attributes WORKING TOGETHER to reveal God to us… the one SIMPLE BEING. But these attributes are not WORKING TOGETHER IN GOD… he is not a machine composed of parts that work together… He is one simple being. All of the attributes predicate the same thing… God.
Unfortunately, Dr. White’s failure to understand this point is also the same issue that prevents Leighton Flowers from truly understanding God’s transcendence and hence his rejection of Calvinism. Both men, to some extent (although White less than Flowers) have trouble seeing that God’s essence truly transcends His creation. It is also painful to see Dr. White conflate Thomas’ scholasticism from the 13th Century with the schoolmen of the 16th Century who frequently interpreted Thomas in vastly different ways. I am not arguing the infallibility of Thomas but he was not Molina or a Jesuit hack trying to prevent or destroy the reformation. He was 300 years before any of that.
@@brentonstanfield5198 agreed!
I love Dr. White and think he is brilliant. But watching him struggle on this issue is pure torture. When you get down to the core of this issue, it is really pretty straightforward. The attributes we perceive as mediated through the created world (ie the prism) do not predicate distinct things in God (ie parts) they simply predicate God.
In the world, we see all of God’s attributes WORKING TOGETHER to reveal God to us… the one SIMPLE BEING. But these attributes are not WORKING TOGETHER IN GOD… he is not a machine composed of parts that work together… He is one simple being. All of the attributes predicate the same thing… God.
Unfortunately, Dr. White’s failure to understand this point is also the same issue that prevents Leighton Flowers from truly understanding God’s transcendence and hence his rejection of Calvinism. Both men, to some extent (although White less than Flowers) have trouble seeing that God’s essence truly transcends His creation. It is also painful to see Dr. White conflate Thomas’ scholasticism from the 13th Century with the schoolmen of the 16th Century who frequently interpreted Thomas in vastly different ways. I am not arguing the infallibility of Thomas but he was not Molina or a Jesuit hack trying to prevent or destroy the reformation. He was 300 years before any of that.
Yes, God's attributes "work together." We agree. But those attributes should not be conflated. If, in God's revelation of Himself, we can distinguish those attributes, we cannot then proceed to imagine that those attributes, _in Himself,_ are only one with no real distinction, nor that God _is_ His attributes. If God's revelation of Himself differs from His "hidden" self, then His revelation of Himself (in Scripture and nature) is false and He cannot be glorified in that revelation.
Just being transparent…doesn’t it seem that many cannot just take in what we see in scripture that reveals the glorious attributes of God? It goes out of bounds regarding apologetics.
@@carolberubee - We don’t conflate God’s attributes IN THE WORLD. We admit that they all refer to GOD (i.e. one THING who is simple in being). If by “real distinction” in God you mean they predicate SEPARATE THINGS IN GOD then you are imaging a God made up of parts. If you don’t mean that then I don’t know what you do mean. So please clarify.
We recognize a REAL distinction between his attributes IN THE WORLD GOD CREATED that reveal God… but that they all refer to and predicate God (the one simple being… i.e. ONE THING). So, when we see beauty in the world we know GOD IS AT WORK IN THE WORLD, when we see truth in the world we know GOD IS AT WORK IN THE WORLD, when we see goodness in the world we know GOD IS AT WORK IN THE WORLD, etc….. Each of those things refer TO GOD via HIS WORK in the world. The One Simple God showing us who He is THROUGH the world He creates and His activity in it. God’s revelation of himself differs from WHAT HE IS… it is the revelation of Himself THOUGH THE WORLD… as opposed to what He is in his TRANSCENDENT BEING.
@@Kenneth-nVA - Can you clarify? What goes out of bounds.
@@brentonstanfield5198 _"If by “real distinction” in God you mean they predicate SEPARATE THINGS IN GOD then you are imaging a God made up of parts."_
I mean "distinct," in that, the attributes we see in the world are no different "in God." He is not made up of parts because attributes are not parts. He is One, but His attributes are not all the same. Justice is not the same as holiness; righteousness is not the same as wrath. We can see the distinction in the world, as God has revealed Himself; thus, there is that same distinction _within God._
These are not parts any more than your "soul" is made up of parts. You are one person/essence with many attributes, but you are not the sum total of your attributes, nor are your attributes all the same "within yourself."
can we back to bible? & not tomas? Trinity is in bible, not somewhere outhere! 😅✌
Trinity is existance of God that explain about LordJesus. Trinity without Jesus & biblical description , is something like imagination & guessing about unrealistic figure. don't let philosophy takeover, it's dangerous, too far from revelation in bible. 😅🙏