@@nailik5792 id say only build it if u know u cant 1shot anyone with 1 rotation of abilties. And in those games build cleaver 1st. Idk about ravenous -> cleaver because even tho in my head it makes sense, but typically in games where u cant 1shot anyone, u have to get ahead or ur useless, so cleaver 1st to try to kill tanky laner and hopefully snowball
thank so much for this video bro, ravenous hydra has been my personal item since I value healing for riven the most and it really does helps on counter match ups, proxying, and stealing camps like you said. This video really helps me feel convince that ravenous is a good item for riven. I honestly feel that eclipse to me is still a good pick if my lane is super free in terms of trade pattern and push my enemy laner to force base. Again, thank you for this video cuz it made me want to climb with my main now knowing the item is still ❤
Very helpful opinion on Riven 1st item and yes i mostly kept building Eclipse as a first item and very rarely hydra because most of my matchups are trade reliant such as Darius Jax Garen and there is no way Hydra can be good against them in a all in, but when i'm getting countered vs a Volibear or Malphite for exemple hydra is definitly the better option there
@@imaqtpreto6824 uh i just dont think it’s very good on riven especially cuz one of riven’s items doesnt give HP(eclipse), plus it gives no haste. I used to build it back when riven went goredrinker, but i havent gone it since the item rework. Though, i havent ever rly tried it so i cant form a solid argument against it. Maybe its good but prob not.
i always win and go hubris first and sundered sky to have a little bit durability and then ravenous hydra. İf you win u will scale harder than any other build. Also buying the dirk early makes your damage go insane
@@FLAGGEDRiven u r right but they guy who is building this likes to go umbral 2nd so he can get his defensive item faster ( most of time sundered sky ), also it helps him to snowball more bc of the passive when u roam a lot
@@challenjour7907 um, i think if u ever need to build cleaver on riven, it should be 1st item. Imo, i feel like if you NEED cleaver, it would have been better to choose a different champ.
@FLAGGEDRiven yeah was thinking this too. If the enemy team has more than 1 tank including toplane BC would be a good 1st. Otherwise serylda would be a good 3rd or 4th item no?
@@challenjour7907 yeah, i think if you are going to build cleaver in a game, it would be best 1st item. Otherwise going last whisper items 3/4/5th item for instant armor pen is more useful imo
@@TikiMikk28 dd isnt good 2nd if u arent ahead because when ur behind, u need dmg to be useful. When behind on riven, you atleast want to be useful by being able to kill squishies and going 1 for 1. But if u build dd while behind, u wont have the dmg to be able to do that. Maw 2nd sometimes good tho. Sundered sky is good 2-3 items because it scales well dmg-wise with rivens passive, and provides defensive utility. So it gives best of both worlds.
i used to buy it 1st when im into renekton and garen to proxy and take grompp/krug, but now its too expensive, and the components are kinda weak (vamp scep and tiamat is so dogshit). but tbh current state of riven is kinda hard for her cause snowball got nerfed (gold value reduced and bounty changed that turret and minions gold contribute), and its teamfight meta where she doesnt shine the best
it was good first item, but not right now, there is a reason why every riven otp of high elo stop building it compared to before. Most do 1st eclipse and if they want to clear faster they just max w second instead of e to make sure the wave dies fast enough and gives you tempo to do camps and different stuff. (Im GM)
yeah, i do agree that hydra is expensive. But i think as a onetrick, it can be good to fill in her weaknesses otherwise another champ would have been better. I also feel the same way for cleaver, I feel like if you ever need to build cleaver, you shouldnt have picked riven.
ngl shojin is pretty bad. the passive seems good at first cuz you can stack it fast, but if you think about it, if you compare 12% increase on Riven's abilities compared to something like Camille Q/Kayn Q, it doesnt rly add much damage compared to them. it's a bait item
Shojin works best on ability damage with high base numbers. Riven's all about AD scaling and stacking AD, so just doing that gets a better damage boost. *disclaimer: not a riven player
@@Hylofear except riven doesnt do high dmg with her abilities. It gets reduced by armor hella, so shojin dmg also does less. I might be wrong about camille, but im pretty sure her Q true dmg is increase by shojin. And kayn has % hp dmg on his abilities, so they get amplified by shojin. TLDR: riven’s basic abilities wont have much increase in dmg cuz armor. While champs like camille/kayn have dmg that’s not reduced/amplified, so they use it better. Atleast thats what i think
@@FLAGGEDRiven I mean more that her damage all scales with AD, so it's better to stack AD than buy % increases. How she deals with armour is another issue, but neither shojin nor ravenous helps with that.
@@Hylofear o wait oops i misread wut u said. I thought u were asking why shojin was bad on riven if she has high ad values. Also riven can only deal with armor up to a certain point. Cleaver/last whisper does nothing against tanks late game. Ravenous helps by gaining tempo and adding more map pressure by being on the map more than the tank
@@R1zzio cuz eclipse is mainly good because of the shield, and the shield amount only goes up by a flat amount, while the other items scale by a percentage.
Buuuuuut, hear me out. Other items have better scalings, like 30% dmg reduction from dd, 175% dmg amp on sundered, maw countering ap, and 30% armor pen. Though eclipse provides ~300-400 hp shields late game with a 6, short cds are usually more helpful early-mid game where fights are longer. also i just dont like stacking shields with riven bcuz it incentivizes ppl to buy serpents fang, which is why i dont like steraks either. But ya i guess i was wrong about the shield part, i thought it was linear but it has some ad scaling which i did not know! I guess my only main argument now is that riven kind of has 2 spikes. One at Eclipse, and one at DD. Eclipse is kind of just a stat-stick with a bunch of AD, haste, and a combat passive. So if you were to build it, it would be early. But if you skipped it, then that means you didnt need the extra early power it gave, so u would build towards better late-game items like DD.
This exactly what i did my last week and i think its so much better to get hydra and feel like a real champion , i beat yone in sustain with fleet and blade btw xD
I think the item sucks. Played it for a few games. It feels like when you are behind its super expensive, by the time you buy it so u can proxy you are too behind because you were without an item for so long. If you are ahaed, you are just not as strong as if you'd buy eclipse. It feels like you cant press your advantage that much if at all.
@@marekfulka3836 one reason i like it a lot is that if you are ahead, its almost impossible to throw due to misplays. Very often u can find urself taking bad trades even with eclipse, and either need to recall or die because of it. Yes u can proxy when ahead but when ur even riven struggles to take jg camps without losing too much hp
@@FLAGGEDRiven I think it is the right item info some specific matchups especially tanks. But i like profane more. Even when it got hard nerdfed. It allows you to snowball and proxy at the same time. It doesn't do anything as good as ravenous or eclypse. But it's an interesting buy imo.
I tryed it already and i dislike couple of things. First when its good. Prety much only when its Ranged matchup or Malphite and the enemy jgl is something you cant find and kill. Number One: Hydra doesnt scale. It only provides flat dmg and lifesteal. Eclips does 6% "Max Health" dmg. Secend as you already sayed there are other Items wich are unfurtunatly mandatory for Riven you cant spend a spot for a *maybe* usefull Item. Third the secend item powerspike is just not there. If you buy hydra you already accepted to play to scale and it gets good with 3. Riven in genereal feels bad at 2 items if it isnt eclips sunderer and you are ahead.
Eclipses 6% max health dmg is useless, cause it would only do any meaningful damage to tanks BUT its physical damage, so tanks reduce this 6% even more, so its garbage. And you dont need eclipse-sunderer at 2 items to feel good, Hydra-sunderer actually feels GREAT because of the massive sustain you get, it literally replace's Eclipse shield due to the sheer amount of healing you get.
@@Gojiradogzillagodzilla The tiny amount of damage on Hydra passive is considerably less than Eclipse max hp proc, so your point about its DMG is irrelevant. Especially when you consider DMG to price ratio because eclipse passive does more and costs a massive 400g less.
Sorry i wrote this between a game starting xD. For the last sentence again. I feel like Riven has a scaling hole till she gets her third item. So you either must be 1 Item ahead or you are to slow/weak to kill someone. And Hydra is realy only to have a better early but its not the fitting 3th item if you get what i mean.
@@YouTubKomentarKiller i think hydra actually scales a lot better than eclipse for these reasons 1. The dmg of eclipse is pretty minuscule despite being. 6% max hp dmg. Eclipse is mainly strong because of the shield, while hydra can provide you consistent sustain. 2. The shield scales a flat amount while lifesteal will heal you the more dmg you do. And late game when you take poke, while with eclipse you might need to recall to heal, you can farm waves and camps to stay on map longer with hydra. 3. Hydra sundered is only worth if ur ahead, otherwise id go eclipse or dd second.
@@Espnandro Except hydra's active does a lot more dmg than only 6% max health dmg that gets reduced by armor anyways. Enemies would need 2k health and 0 armor for Eclipse passive to deal 120 dmg, meanwhile Hydra active with 160 AD is already doing 128, and this only increases with your AD (which Riven gets a lot of). Yea Eclipse is cheaper, which is why people rush it in the first place, but thats besides point of the discussion. Dude said Eclipse scales better simply because of that 6% max health damage but the damage is actually garbage, no one even takes it into account.
Bro, im not some metachanging riven player, but holy fuck i really dont understand why people dropped the hydra, if you get in a proxy with ravenous and you have your all in timer you can get a 2v1 by one shotting the jg/top and then getting the last stand triumph ravenous into a full wave/krugs, ravenous is for me the best riven rush because of 5 swords. HYDRA>ECLIPSE ALL DAY BABY
@FLAGGEDRiven It's a win more item, honestly feels fantastic imo. If you can get it early it's nice, but I wouldnt pick it up over deaths dance, or anywhere after second item. It's just AD mejais but you only ever gain stacks and never lose them, getting one kill or assist in a team fight is a huge buff, getting upwards of what two items worth of attack damage? Base 15 + 2(per stack), I'm averaging 37-45 per game so thats 89-105 Ad for one kill or assist that lasts a minute and thirty seconds. It even comes with a little cdr too!
@@siryasashii i mean if u ask me yeah, but ask anyone else theyll say no. I just think if u have to build cleaver then it’s just a bad riven game, but go cleaver 1st item
i think if u ever need to build cleaver on riven, it should be 1st item. this vid im going over hydra 1st item. Imo, i feel like if you NEED cleaver, it would have been better to choose a different champ. but were OTPs so cleaver is fine when you need it. I think it's best 1st item.
@@SDSXellan its good in matchups where u cant play on base hp cuz u will othervise get kinda 1shot in 1 rotation and against enemys might go tabis , renekton, garen , sett or illaio and some tank matchups where u not get poked , othervise hydra feels great into tanks which have some sort poke short trades like poppy for example. thats at least my feeling not sure if this all in all correct .
I miss the old ravenous hydra where u could get 14cs permin and be a god. :(
true, and triple armor pen
@@FLAGGEDRiven I loved playing riven with multiple armor pen I felt like thanos
NEW VID!!
Gonna try out your suggestions. Can I ask something though? What do you think about Cleaver?
@@nailik5792 id say only build it if u know u cant 1shot anyone with 1 rotation of abilties. And in those games build cleaver 1st. Idk about ravenous -> cleaver because even tho in my head it makes sense, but typically in games where u cant 1shot anyone, u have to get ahead or ur useless, so cleaver 1st to try to kill tanky laner and hopefully snowball
i missed you flagged riven ur the coolest riven i suscribed for the advanced mechanics guide
@@muritex1192 mbmb ty for kind words
thank so much for this video bro, ravenous hydra has been my personal item since I value healing for riven the most and it really does helps on counter match ups, proxying, and stealing camps like you said. This video really helps me feel convince that ravenous is a good item for riven. I honestly feel that eclipse to me is still a good pick if my lane is super free in terms of trade pattern and push my enemy laner to force base.
Again, thank you for this video cuz it made me want to climb with my main now knowing the item is still ❤
Great vid brother 🫡
thanks ma man
I was needing this, Thanks man
npnp
yo can i just say mad respect for the comedic screen shot at 1:38
lolol
Very helpful opinion on Riven 1st item and yes i mostly kept building Eclipse as a first item and very rarely hydra because most of my matchups are trade reliant such as Darius Jax Garen and there is no way Hydra can be good against them in a all in, but when i'm getting countered vs a Volibear or Malphite for exemple hydra is definitly the better option there
Man, Riven the only reason I missed mythic items. Went phase rush old hydra and youmuus. New hydra just doesn't do it for me 😔
New here, ravenous 1st was pretty standard I think one or two season prior. I just came back on split 3 and was wondering why people rush eclipse now
@@z0mbyz624 cuz they changed ravenous. It used to make champs with aoe spells broken but it got reverted.
why u dont build steraks? Isnt it worth to build it vs ad/mixed burst dmg?
@@imaqtpreto6824 uh i just dont think it’s very good on riven especially cuz one of riven’s items doesnt give HP(eclipse), plus it gives no haste. I used to build it back when riven went goredrinker, but i havent gone it since the item rework.
Though, i havent ever rly tried it so i cant form a solid argument against it. Maybe its good but prob not.
I didn't even realise Ravenous builds out of 5 longswords lol, and I play camille.
I'd say Riven needs some Armor Pen or sustain when ulting, if new champ has both why Riven can't have one of it? :(
because if she gets armor pen or sustain then her early has to be gutted to make it balanced, so that she will spike at 6 instead of 2
i always win and go hubris first and sundered sky to have a little bit durability and then ravenous hydra. İf you win u will scale harder than any other build. Also buying the dirk early makes your damage go insane
they could never make me like you bro
I’ve also seen eclipse>umbral glaive>sundered sky with only basic boots then defense. I saw on Reddit, but I don’t understand why or if it’s good.
@@Hsquared tbh i think umbral is weak compared to hubris so i would rather go that instead. Its just too expensive for what it gives
@@FLAGGEDRiven u r right but they guy who is building this likes to go umbral 2nd so he can get his defensive item faster ( most of time sundered sky ), also it helps him to snowball more bc of the passive when u roam a lot
For armor pen, would serylda be better now or cleaver?
@@challenjour7907 um, i think if u ever need to build cleaver on riven, it should be 1st item.
Imo, i feel like if you NEED cleaver, it would have been better to choose a different champ.
@FLAGGEDRiven yeah was thinking this too. If the enemy team has more than 1 tank including toplane BC would be a good 1st. Otherwise serylda would be a good 3rd or 4th item no?
@@challenjour7907 yeah, i think if you are going to build cleaver in a game, it would be best 1st item. Otherwise going last whisper items 3/4/5th item for instant armor pen is more useful imo
I miss lethality riven
He remembered his password 😭🙏
I don't get the point of sundered sky. I feel like DD or Maw are always a good 2nd item
@@TikiMikk28 dd isnt good 2nd if u arent ahead because when ur behind, u need dmg to be useful. When behind on riven, you atleast want to be useful by being able to kill squishies and going 1 for 1. But if u build dd while behind, u wont have the dmg to be able to do that. Maw 2nd sometimes good tho. Sundered sky is good 2-3 items because it scales well dmg-wise with rivens passive, and provides defensive utility. So it gives best of both worlds.
i used to buy it 1st when im into renekton and garen to proxy and take grompp/krug, but now its too expensive, and the components are kinda weak (vamp scep and tiamat is so dogshit). but tbh current state of riven is kinda hard for her cause snowball got nerfed (gold value reduced and bounty changed that turret and minions gold contribute), and its teamfight meta where she doesnt shine the best
it was good first item, but not right now, there is a reason why every riven otp of high elo stop building it compared to before. Most do 1st eclipse and if they want to clear faster they just max w second instead of e to make sure the wave dies fast enough and gives you tempo to do camps and different stuff. (Im GM)
yeah, i do agree that hydra is expensive. But i think as a onetrick, it can be good to fill in her weaknesses otherwise another champ would have been better. I also feel the same way for cleaver, I feel like if you ever need to build cleaver, you shouldnt have picked riven.
what about the shojin spear on second item ? he give some HP and has a good pasiv right ?
ngl shojin is pretty bad. the passive seems good at first cuz you can stack it fast, but if you think about it, if you compare 12% increase on Riven's abilities compared to something like Camille Q/Kayn Q, it doesnt rly add much damage compared to them. it's a bait item
Shojin works best on ability damage with high base numbers. Riven's all about AD scaling and stacking AD, so just doing that gets a better damage boost.
*disclaimer: not a riven player
@@Hylofear except riven doesnt do high dmg with her abilities. It gets reduced by armor hella, so shojin dmg also does less. I might be wrong about camille, but im pretty sure her Q true dmg is increase by shojin. And kayn has % hp dmg on his abilities, so they get amplified by shojin.
TLDR: riven’s basic abilities wont have much increase in dmg cuz armor. While champs like camille/kayn have dmg that’s not reduced/amplified, so they use it better.
Atleast thats what i think
@@FLAGGEDRiven I mean more that her damage all scales with AD, so it's better to stack AD than buy % increases. How she deals with armour is another issue, but neither shojin nor ravenous helps with that.
@@Hylofear o wait oops i misread wut u said. I thought u were asking why shojin was bad on riven if she has high ad values.
Also riven can only deal with armor up to a certain point. Cleaver/last whisper does nothing against tanks late game. Ravenous helps by gaining tempo and adding more map pressure by being on the map more than the tank
I need to escape Emerald pls guide me towards the light
Great video
What do you mean when saying eclipse is not good lategame? is there an explanation about that?
@@R1zzio cuz eclipse is mainly good because of the shield, and the shield amount only goes up by a flat amount, while the other items scale by a percentage.
@@FLAGGEDRiven shield scales 40% of bonus ad.
@ wait hold up u right. Ok thats mb lol
Buuuuuut, hear me out. Other items have better scalings, like 30% dmg reduction from dd, 175% dmg amp on sundered, maw countering ap, and 30% armor pen.
Though eclipse provides ~300-400 hp shields late game with a 6, short cds are usually more helpful early-mid game where fights are longer. also i just dont like stacking shields with riven bcuz it incentivizes ppl to buy serpents fang, which is why i dont like steraks either.
But ya i guess i was wrong about the shield part, i thought it was linear but it has some ad scaling which i did not know! I guess my only main argument now is that riven kind of has 2 spikes. One at Eclipse, and one at DD. Eclipse is kind of just a stat-stick with a bunch of AD, haste, and a combat passive. So if you were to build it, it would be early. But if you skipped it, then that means you didnt need the extra early power it gave, so u would build towards better late-game items like DD.
This exactly what i did my last week and i think its so much better to get hydra and feel like a real champion , i beat yone in sustain with fleet and blade btw xD
i know what u mean
@@FLAGGEDRiven i play her mid alot
Btw look at riven mains, there is a recent post about s canceling without s, i post that
@@san4ndreas103 wut
W vid, post more often
what abt eclipse into umbral? or umbral into eclipse ? 👀
the stats on umbral are just too little and provide 0 combat stats. i like the item its just not meant for Riven.
Ok but have you felt power that is Triforce riven. Sheen first buy + passive and it gives cdr.
lol tbh maybe if i wanna go a splitpush build vs unplayable comps id go it
LEMME SEE YOUR ITEM GUIDE PLS
@@AS-zm3cw mebe…
I think the item sucks. Played it for a few games. It feels like when you are behind its super expensive, by the time you buy it so u can proxy you are too behind because you were without an item for so long. If you are ahaed, you are just not as strong as if you'd buy eclipse. It feels like you cant press your advantage that much if at all.
@@marekfulka3836 one reason i like it a lot is that if you are ahead, its almost impossible to throw due to misplays. Very often u can find urself taking bad trades even with eclipse, and either need to recall or die because of it. Yes u can proxy when ahead but when ur even riven struggles to take jg camps without losing too much hp
@@FLAGGEDRiven I think it is the right item info some specific matchups especially tanks. But i like profane more. Even when it got hard nerdfed. It allows you to snowball and proxy at the same time. It doesn't do anything as good as ravenous or eclypse. But it's an interesting buy imo.
shojin first on top🗣🗣🗣🗣
when u confidently wrong
ive been having a better time rushing hydra bro eclipse does no damage so i might as well farm
lol, eclipse is still good into most matchups, but hydra feels nice in a lot of matchups bcuz you can make more mistakes
You only want to build Hydra so you have more buttons to press and get an extra cast bar to S cancel on, be honest buddy
CAUGHT
I tryed it already and i dislike couple of things.
First when its good.
Prety much only when its Ranged matchup or Malphite and the enemy jgl is something you cant find and kill.
Number One: Hydra doesnt scale. It only provides flat dmg and lifesteal. Eclips does 6% "Max Health" dmg.
Secend as you already sayed there are other Items wich are unfurtunatly mandatory for Riven you cant spend a spot for a *maybe* usefull Item.
Third the secend item powerspike is just not there. If you buy hydra you already accepted to play to scale and it gets good with 3. Riven in genereal feels bad at 2 items if it isnt eclips sunderer and you are ahead.
Eclipses 6% max health dmg is useless, cause it would only do any meaningful damage to tanks BUT its physical damage, so tanks reduce this 6% even more, so its garbage.
And you dont need eclipse-sunderer at 2 items to feel good, Hydra-sunderer actually feels GREAT because of the massive sustain you get, it literally replace's Eclipse shield due to the sheer amount of healing you get.
@@Gojiradogzillagodzilla The tiny amount of damage on Hydra passive is considerably less than Eclipse max hp proc, so your point about its DMG is irrelevant. Especially when you consider DMG to price ratio because eclipse passive does more and costs a massive 400g less.
Sorry i wrote this between a game starting xD.
For the last sentence again.
I feel like Riven has a scaling hole till she gets her third item. So you either must be 1 Item ahead or you are to slow/weak to kill someone.
And Hydra is realy only to have a better early but its not the fitting 3th item if you get what i mean.
@@YouTubKomentarKiller i think hydra actually scales a lot better than eclipse for these reasons
1. The dmg of eclipse is pretty minuscule despite being. 6% max hp dmg. Eclipse is mainly strong because of the shield, while hydra can provide you consistent sustain.
2. The shield scales a flat amount while lifesteal will heal you the more dmg you do. And late game when you take poke, while with eclipse you might need to recall to heal, you can farm waves and camps to stay on map longer with hydra.
3. Hydra sundered is only worth if ur ahead, otherwise id go eclipse or dd second.
@@Espnandro Except hydra's active does a lot more dmg than only 6% max health dmg that gets reduced by armor anyways.
Enemies would need 2k health and 0 armor for Eclipse passive to deal 120 dmg, meanwhile Hydra active with 160 AD is already doing 128, and this only increases with your AD (which Riven gets a lot of).
Yea Eclipse is cheaper, which is why people rush it in the first place, but thats besides point of the discussion. Dude said Eclipse scales better simply because of that 6% max health damage but the damage is actually garbage, no one even takes it into account.
Bro, im not some metachanging riven player, but holy fuck i really dont understand why people dropped the hydra, if you get in a proxy with ravenous and you have your all in timer you can get a 2v1 by one shotting the jg/top and then getting the last stand triumph ravenous into a full wave/krugs, ravenous is for me the best riven rush because of 5 swords.
HYDRA>ECLIPSE ALL DAY BABY
@@Acetung25 this guy gets it
meow :3
it's expensive, that's why eclipse is sometimes better
@@jorsmanel8732 but sometimes ravenous better
04:08 🤨🤔
Nice Video! 🤗
Normalize Hubris first item
@@thenetgamer2 imo its bait
@FLAGGEDRiven It's a win more item, honestly feels fantastic imo. If you can get it early it's nice, but I wouldnt pick it up over deaths dance, or anywhere after second item. It's just AD mejais but you only ever gain stacks and never lose them, getting one kill or assist in a team fight is a huge buff, getting upwards of what two items worth of attack damage? Base 15 + 2(per stack), I'm averaging 37-45 per game so thats 89-105 Ad for one kill or assist that lasts a minute and thirty seconds. It even comes with a little cdr too!
cleaver still super trash?
@@siryasashii i mean if u ask me yeah, but ask anyone else theyll say no. I just think if u have to build cleaver then it’s just a bad riven game, but go cleaver 1st item
hi
hi
Where cleaver, item good just item path shit
i think if u ever need to build cleaver on riven, it should be 1st item. this vid im going over hydra 1st item.
Imo, i feel like if you NEED cleaver, it would have been better to choose a different champ. but were OTPs so cleaver is fine when you need it. I think it's best 1st item.
@@FLAGGEDRiven when do i build it? If my enemy is like ornn or my team is full of ad?
@@SDSXellan its good in matchups where u cant play on base hp cuz u will othervise get kinda 1shot in 1 rotation and against enemys might go tabis , renekton, garen , sett or illaio and some tank matchups where u not get poked , othervise hydra feels great into tanks which have some sort poke short trades like poppy for example. thats at least my feeling not sure if this all in all correct .