WRATH of the Final Fantasy 7 Shippers! This Really Needs to Stop.... But Why Does It Happen AT ALL?
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- #finalfantasy7 #squareenix #finalfantasy
WRATH of the Final Fantasy 7 Shippers! This Really Needs to Stop.... But Why Does It Happen AT ALL?
Fandoms tend to have subsections of their communities that can go off the deep end, but in Final Fantasy, few are as vocal as the 'Final Fantasy 7 Shippers', who recently came out of the woodwork again to make themselves known in unflattering fashion. But why do people feel SO strongly about this? Where does it stem from? Let's take a look! (Is it time to duck and hide?)
• WRATH of the Final Fan...
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![[FULL SPOILER DISCUSSION] Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth is ALMOST PERFECT... Until its NOT!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TwtBVYFpSKg/mqdefault.jpg)
Just gonna put this out there... Im not sure the majority of the comments for this video really understood the point of the video...
Of course i want everyone to speak freely, but it should go without saying for everyone to keep it civil yeah? Theres a REASON that i very much took no side in this ridiculous argument ❤
the worst of all is that many fans are not cursing Nojima for changing something, because he didn't change anything. Cloud and Aerith are the fundamental piece in the story of FFVII. They are cursing Nojima for the simple fact that they invented a narrative in their heads and he didn't follow it
Say it louder for the back row! Its literally delirious how anyone can claim Cloud and Aerith aren't the main story of ff7.
They are cursing Nojima because they want a certain character to be the one being in the center focused.
@@amnos180188 that’s too
Frrrr
Aerith and Cloud aren't the ship you think it is.
Cloud have a part from the past of Zack and we can see in the flash-back. He talked like Zack and have his outfit cause he's mixing his identity.
Cloud is ship with Aerith
And Tifa for différents ways.
But Tifa is important too.
She is why He wanted to be heroe and Cloud mind came Black when she met him in sector 7 cause He was like a Black coat number
...
And we can be sure she is cause when Cloud saw Sephiroth in his mind, no one can see him but when Tifa touch Cloud, Sephiroth became real for all the gang cause she is part of Cloud and Sephiroth with her father death than Cloud saw and Felt pain when we fought The Airbuster...
Aerith AND Tifa are important for Cloud...
And That's the spirit Of FFVII...
Tifa and Aerith are very good characters and SE are clever to have these two cause we want to ship Cloud with one of them so much😂...
I prefer Aerith X Tifa cause I don't want to choose😅
The thing is,
I HAPPILY ship Clerith regardless if it's canon or not.
I just wish these people would do the same. Both ships are valid.
I no longer happily ship Clerith because the toxic Cleriths keep ruining my preferred ship for me. I mean, I still prefer Clerith over Cloti and Zerith, but I don't enjoy it anymore as I used to as a young girl.
@@EvelynL.1112 Shipping Clerith would make sense if Cloud gets to keep Aerith. Unfortunately, she's destined to die. And in the end, Tifa wins.
this ship war is as old as i am :"D as a cloti shipper, i dont mind the clerith in the latest trailer. both women are important to cloud. and the trailer sort of focused on the gold saucer date and wasn't the canon date aerith? 😭😭 i love aerith and i love tifa let's just support both girls 😭
I became a FF7 fan fairly recently. In November I played the Original, Crisis Core, and watched Advent Children. I became a Cloud & Aerith shipper because of their interactions, what it means for them, and I feel as if it gives an extra punch to the story. Then I played remake and shipped it even more.
Then I went online. I had no idea I’d be walking into an ongoing war that started before I was even born. It’s so bad. I didn’t know people hated it so much, for no substantial reason other than “It gets in the middle of Cloud and Tifa”. Like, I would understand if they’d give a legitimate reason and I’m sure there are some, but most people from what I’ve seen are just angry because it takes away from Cloti.
yeah, Tifa has some legitimately crazy, over protective fans. You'd think she was a real person considering how some of these people behave, and the hate some of them have for Aerith is unreal, like scary and frighteningly unreal.
@@koosh88215 tifa is great but most of those crazy tifa fans are incels if i'm being honest. they self-insert as cloud and they don't really care about the characters individually and their feelings, they just want to be able to put themselves in cloud's shoes and fantasize about tifa. they're forgetting that despite the date mechanics and the game letting your have "player choices" there's a story that the creators want to tell. hell, the devs even said that they'd be letting things less up to interpretation this time around and even after them saying that, people will still deny what's in front of their eyes. both tifa and aerith are great characters and the shipping debate has always been meant to be ambiguous for a reason ... however acting like aerith and cloud's relationship was irrelevant is almost like completely ignoring/misinterpreting a bit part of the story and what makes it so great. it pains me even more seeing fans shit on great characters and mischaracterize them... never thought i'd see ppl calling cloud a fckboy or aerith a sl*t over a single shot in the trailer, but here we are...
same same. even though i prefer cloud and aerith's relationship i respect both ships but it's just insane that there's this crazy "controversy" around aerith and cloud being romantically involved when that was always a thing in the story. idk how people could possibly twist the story over the years so badly to the point where they're trying to deny that aerith was always meant to be a romantic love interest for cloud. for god's sake even the theme songs for remake and rebirth are from both cloud and aerith's povs respectivelly and people are STILL misinterpreting the song and acting like it's not about them. idk man, i'm all for people shipping whoever they like but it boggles my mind that people just don't seem to understand the story of ff7 at all and its characters.
@@ugh5281 It’s absolutely disgusting. They’re acting as if Aerith doesn’t have the right to move on from somebody she hasn’t had contact with in years. They’re also acting as if Cloud is cheating on Tifa, when they aren’t even in a relationship to begin with.
@@starseekernate7244 just look up the "low affection" scene under the Highwind. Equally "cannon" but that gets conveniently ignored. As for Zack, if you started with OG and progressed chronologically, you can easily see how absurd Zack's evolution is. Especially, especially if you saw all the bonus scenes with him in OG. I honestly wondered with all the potential timelines theories for the Remake project if they would go back and say Crisis Core was a jk, really just an alternate timeline.
I have no idea why the trailer caused an uproar. It's like people forgot the 1997 game on which this is based. In Disc 1 of that game, Aerith had 50 points in the mechanic and a more active role. It switched to Tifa in Disc 2. Why would Rebirth and the third game be any different? The only significant difference I see is the theme songs (they're theme songs for a reason) are imho, heavily centered around Cloud and Aerith's relationship respectfully. But if that's the story the developers want to tell, it's in our best interest as fans to see it through to the end. After all some of the best media in history is polarizing. That's what sometimes makes it stand the test of time. Sorry for the long response. :) It was a great video.
Agree so much with this! In the end we have to remember that we have no power at all over this story, so let's wait and see how they wrap up everything. If they want to make one couple canon, they will, if they want to keep ambiguous, they will, and there's nothing we can do about it, so let's hope for the best and remember that FF VII is way more than romantic relationships.
The point system in the mechanics is indicative of how these girls feel toward Cloud, not the other way around. That point would be evident if you look at how the points are doled out. As for who loves who, looking at the narrative you’ll have what you feel, but looking at the story in it’s entirety with timelines and everything paints a very different picture. Look at the plot as a whole and you’ll see that the beginning of the game is in the middle of the plot and is at Cloud and Tifa’s lowest point in their romance story. Aerith is around for about a week out of the month or so long journey, when Cloud’s entire identity and actions leading up to where they are in the story are motivated by his romantic feelings for Tifa. There should really be no shipping war/debate, when there really isn’t a love triangle to begin with. Not to say Aerith isn’t important to Cloud, but his guilt stems from having let down his best friend and idol and his girlfriend and living a life with the woman he loves when they themselves would never get that chance. The point of Advent Children was not how to learn to live without Aerith, it was how to learn to live with himself. Cloud is experiencing survivors guilt, and feelings of inadequacy. Not sure how this is missed…🤦♂️
YES! I won't lie, I get excited about Clerith... I've been shipping them since '99 but it's up to the developers if they choose a "true love" for Cloud.
The most silly thing I'm hearing is that the writters are changing their story. They didnt change anything about Cloud and Aerith. The main story of Final fantasy 7 was always about them meeting and falling in love before aerith dies. Cloud reaction to her death tells you everything you have to know.
I don't have a problem with that part, but I do have a problem with cloud staying single and depressed after said love interesting is gone and he has another love interest sitting right there.
Entering a relationship doesn't solve depression and most mental health professionals would not encourage you to unload your trauma on a new partner. Which is probably why AC shows significant relationship issues going on when both Cloud and Tifa never really addressed their trauma. Honestly shipping in VII does Tifa a huge disservice because she is primarily just a vehicle to support Cloud's trauma with hers hardly getting touched on.
The person who wrote it originally had Tifa and Cloud having sex during the highwind scene after his mind was restored after TIFA helped him find his true self….like seriously Clarith people just ignore the second half of the actual story.
The only thing that must happen is Aerith must die.
Cloud was in love with aerith. Thats why he go to search for her when she leaves the party in og.
I kinda disagree when people say that who you ship is not important to ff7 Story.
I've always rooted for Aerith since 1997: one of the reason was because, if you consider that cloud has feeling for her, then the story only get better and make more sense.
- it help to justify his mental breakdown in CD2.
- it fit the dark tone of ff7.
- it make Aerith fate even more hurtful
- it justify the ending where he want to meet her on promised land.
- it explain his depression in advent children.
- the ending is dark ( you won, but with a high personnal cost)
On the other end, i feel that if you cheer for Tifa the story get more classic with an almost happy ending (" kill the bad guy, save the world , get the girl...").
That doesn’t make sense to me, you mentioned advent children so you’ve clearly seen that It’s not happily ever after because regardless of whether you chose to have Aerith as clouds primary love interest or not, he still cared about her deeply regardless and her death still haunts him the same, just like with Zack’s death. You don’t have to be romantically involved for that to be true. All the points you listed still apply even if you choose to not have Aerith as the primary love interest because no matter what you choose, he still loves her regardless, romantically or in another way. That love is the core of it, how the player chooses to express that love is less important.
I mean... you do you in terms of which "ship" you want to hop on but you don't really need Aerith's death to "justify" Cloud's mental breakdown. His memories already scrambled mess. Sephiroth's manipulation alrady got to him a few times. Then the nail in the coffin was Sephiroth making Tifa confirm that he wasn't the soldier in Nibelheim 5 years ago. Sure Aerith's death didn't help his mental state, but he would've gone coocoo regardless
I agree with some of those takes but Clouds mental breakdown comes from Sephiroth messing up with his head so bad that his already strained mind finally snaps and breaks him mentally
I really hope they calm down because I like the direction they’re taking with you being able to have meaningful relationships with all the characters through interaction. I love both Aerith and Tifa, it makes me sad that there’s so much division in the fandom about them when they are both wonderful characters, and very strong female characters at that.
I hope Square Enix doesn’t pay too much attention to these toxic fans, the loud majority likes both characters ☹️☹️.
Do these people not realize that you'll get to choose? Wtf does it matter which ship gets shown in the trailer? If you like Tifa more, just have Cloud choose her when you play the game 🤷♂️
Thank you so much for doing this. As brilliant as the FF7 date mechanic was when it came out, it also created a bit of a nasty parasocial aspect to things and the fact that it has seeped into the fandom to poison the proverbial well is disquieting, especially when several people take the opportunity to then launch hate towards the creative team.
First thing: funny you immediately compare this to Misery, I literally did the same comparison a coupld days ago tooxD
I'm a pretty dedicated clerith shipper (as you'll see). Cloud and Aerith are my top fav charas of every FF and they're my comfort ship. My experience is that whenever you say you love them anywhere there's always at least 1 cloti that's rage attacking you and showing you their extreme mental gymnastics and keep coming back to their fictional 'highwind sex' that never happened. I've played all the games (except BC) and read the books (with difficulties from Ultimania as they've never been released in engl, other than the Remake Ultimania) and I believe what's been presented in these medias. (Rambling incoming)
Aerith SAYS she and Zack weren't serious and that she moved on, Tifa and her buddies ostracised Cloud as kids and though Tifa KNEW, she knew everything, also that Cloud was blamed for her stupid choice to go to Mt. Nibel, she NEVER corrected anyone and let the Nibelheimer bully Cloud and Claudia and ONLY noticed Cloud once all her buddies left and he told her he wants to be a famous SOLDIER like Seph, and Tifa sees her chance to be rescued by a famous SOLDIER and forces a promise on Cloud to do just that. Not to mention that throughout the OG she NEVER talked with him about the past and corrected him, even told Cloud to close his eyes and don't listen to the truths Sephiroth's telling them later and that SHE needed more time, even thought Cloud literally had a mental breakdown at this moment and only talked with him about it when she was forced to in that lifestream scene. About the Highwind scene, if they did have sex as the clotis claim, then how BAD must it have been, cause RIGHT AFTER the final battle he says he wants to meet 'her' (obv Aerith, while clotis say it's about *checks notes* Tifas mom or change 'her' to 'them' which makes no sense either). Plus he could've gotten together with Tifa after OG, but Maiden (which IS canon), OTWTAS Case of Tifa, AC and DC all emphasise that Aerith loves Cloud much more than Zack and rejected him in the Lifestream, that Cloud is her koibito (lover) and that Cloud CHOOSES not to move on, but to stay single all the way through to DC (where Tifa was only said to be Clouds friend and Aerith as the person engraved in his heart forever). Also clotis love to say Cloud is Zack (has his memories/feelings etc) to brush off the interactions with Aerith, they literally claim EVERYTHING is about Zack and he's the real main chara even though he's a mere NPC in OG with a completely skippable backstory.
(rambling end)
Point is, it shouldn't be hard to understand, it's not as complex as Kingdom Hearts! Everything you need to know has been presented in games, books and movies, not to mention that SE always put clerith front and center, mostly facing each other and, well, TOGETHER during marketings, every merch starts with clerith, even the OG trailer say it's about 'a love that could never be' while showing Cloud lowering Aerith into the water. And lastly, 'Hollow' being in Clouds POV and CLEARLY talks about Aerith there and the new Rebirth song 'No Promises to keep' CLEARLY being an answer to Hollow in Aeriths POV that's about Cloud.
Guess I have to say that I don't want clotis to stop ship cloti. They can do just that but pls don't come with bullshit like that, and harrass cleriths and claim it's canon when it clearly isn't. You can have a non-canon ship and that's ok.
About the community (of Twitter):
Last thing is that clotis are notorious for harrassing. I wasn't in the fandom since 97, but they've done it ever since then, dox cleriths, fake DMs and 'translations' and use completely PROVEN false translations to defend their ship. These are the toxic ppl and we cleriths just don't let them harrass and lie anymore and call them out on their bullshit. THEY have been harrassing Nojima recently (as they obv said to him to not favor Aerith but Tifa).
We provide facts in debates, while clotis rely on lies and headcanons. And I've NEVER seen a single clerith go as far as to be as toxic as a cloti and send death threats to the devs so far. LASTLY (for real this time) cleriths call each other out if they're doing anything bad, while clotis enable themselves, being racist, sexist, misogynistic, body shame, you name it and don't do shit instead they're quick to say 'cleriths did that, they so bad!' The newest childish temper tantrum of theirs proof that they actually HATE VII, Cloud, Aerith (obv), the devs and sometimes even Tifa as well.
Sry for that long comment, that was a very good video btw
Okay first, let me just say that while I am a fan of the Cloud and Tifa pairing myself, I just want to be clear that I respect both ships. The official stance of Square Enix is that the love triangle is left open to interpretation, and that both the Clerith and Cloti ships are equally valid, or to put it another way, equally canon. For me, that's really where any serious debate should end. Square basically created a scenario where everybody wins, and can have what they want, but some people just aren't satisfied with that, and want to be "true winners" I guess. It's all really silly.
With that out of the way, I have to say that while I respect your choice to ship Clerith and won't challenge why you support your ship, I do have to defend my own, as I feel a lot of your information on the Cloti pairing is inaccurate. First there's nothing to indicate that Tifa had any knowledge about the bullying going on with Cloud. Everything we've been told so far actually suggests just the opposite. In the Traces of Two Pasts novel, the Tifa side of the story has her explain that she and Cloud were close until about the age of 6, and would regularly go over to each other's houses to play. After they turned 6 though, they started to drift apart, and Tifa says she has no idea why that happened. If she doesn't know why Cloud started distancing himself, then that suggests she knew nothing about the bullying. This makes sense if we consider the feelings of the other boys as well. They all want to look good in front of Tifa, and Tifa's not the kind of girl who would look favorably upon bullying. So it makes sense that they would only bully Cloud during times when Tifa wasn't around. Cloud too, being the way he is, most likely wouldn't go talking to Tifa about this. His pride wouldn't let him, so there would be no way for Tifa to learn what was happening.
Second, Traces of Two Pasts also makes clear that Tifa suffers from amnesia, regarding the accident on Mt. Nibel. Cloud got lucky and only skinned his knees in the fall. Tifa hit her head, and was in a coma for a week. After she woke up, she couldn't remember anything about what happened, or how she ended up on Mt. Nibel in the first place. The only people who claimed to know what happened were the other boys in the village, and they're the ones who made up that lie, putting all the blame on Cloud. Cloud himself never disputed the story, likely because he felt guilty over failing to protect Tifa. So he probably felt like he deserved all the blame, even if the actual facts of the story prove otherwise. Since Tifa couldn't remember what happened herself, she was unable to come to Cloud's defense, and since Cloud was unwilling to defend himself, the version of the story that the village boys gave was the only version of events that anyone in the village knew. Tifa apologizes to Cloud in the lifestream scene of the original game, saying that if she only remembered what had really happened that day, she would have been able to help him. She didn't intentionally let Cloud take the fall. She didn't even know that he was letting himself take the fall.
Third, about the whole SOLDIER thing...Tifa never once actually cared about that. Again, going back to Traces of Two Pasts, it's shown that Tifa had a crush on Cloud from the time she was a small child, but never allowed herself to admit her feelings, or see a future with Cloud as a real possibility, because she put him on a pedestal. She saw him as someone special, a person she could never hope to reach. When Cloud said he wanted to join SOLDIER, she was struck by how ordinary his dream was. This was the point where she realized that Cloud wasn't some untouchable existance, but just an ordinary boy, a boy that Tifa could now clearly see herself having a future with. This was the point where Tifa knew for sure that she had romantic feelings for him, and she always had. Whether Cloud actually made it into SOLDIER never mattered to her. She would accept him regardless. She just wanted to stay close to him always, and that was the real motive behind the promise. Whether Cloud became a hero, or not, the promise made sure that he wouldn't forget about her. So long as he remembered her, there was always hope that they could be reunited one day. That's what Tifa really wanted. She wasn't looking for a hero. She just wanted Cloud. Cloud also agrees to the promise willingly, and confesses in the original game that one of his main reasons for wanting to become stronger was because he wanted Tifa to notice him. (Of course, he was unaware that she already noticed him a long time ago) Becoming Tifa's hero was always something he wanted, and that's why he agreed to the promise. He was never forced into anything.
Fourth, remember that despite Cloud's memories not matching her own, it's undeniable that a lot of Cloud's story about the Nibelheim incident is accurate. So it's not surprising that Tifa would probably start doubting her own recollection of the event, and would struggle to bring it up. For all she knows, maybe SHE is the one who has it wrong. Also, if her memories are right...what does that mean for Cloud? How could he know all of this objectively true information if he wasn't there? The differences between their memories raise a lot of serious questions, and those questions understandably scare Tifa. Part of the reason why she doesn't confront the truth right away is because she's scared of what she'll find. Eventually though, she works up the courage to confront the truth when it becomes clear that Cloud can't go on without knowing for sure what really happened, and who he really is. This is the moment where Tifa puts all her fears to the side, because all that matters to her at that point is helping Cloud however she can.
Also, why wouldn't she tell Cloud to ignore what Sephiroth is saying? It's painfully obvious that Sephiroth isn't trying to help Cloud when he tells him the "truth". He's only trying to hurt him, so of course Tifa is going to tell Cloud to put Sephiroth's words out of his mind. Even if some of the things Sephiroth is telling them are true, learning the truth this way won't help.
Finally, about Cloud still being single in AC, and Dirge of Cerberus, we don't actually know that. The film and game never once elaborate on what Cloud's relationship status actually is, nor should we expect them to, since the whole point of the love triangle is that it's open ended. Cloud has feelings for both Aerith and Tifa, and we the players are tasked with deciding who Cloud likes just that little bit more. Since the end result of the love triangle can be different for each player, it makes sense that any sequels to the original game are never going to talk about Cloud's love life. If the Dirge of Cerberus manual mentioned that Tifa was Cloud's girlfriend for example, that would effectively close the book on all other interppretations of the love triangle. Square obviously isn't going to do that. It would defeat the purpose of having the love triangle in the first place. So all they can say in the manual is that Tifa is Cloud's childhood friend, because that's the one part of their history that will always remain true, whether the player got them together at the end of FFVII, or not.
(Sorry for the wall of text, but one long comment deserves another I guess. 😂)
If you think Cloud wanting to meet Aerith in the promised land, Tifa feeling unloved and having to ASK him, just to backtrack cause he doesn't answer and leaving to live in Aeriths church is a win for Tifa...whatever makes you sleep better.
You seem to forget that Tifa is a 100% UNRELIABLE narrator. This is Tifas whole thing. It's literally the twist in OG. They've never been friends. Tifa THINKS they are, but they never were. Cloud has nevef een at her house (as she said so herself). And Tifa 100% knew about how the whole village treated Cloud and Claudia (I mean cmon you can't tell me she never noticed the poor treatment they got from the whole village) She also knew Cloud took the blame for her fall but never bothered to correct the story, that it was HER fault for going to Mt. Nibel. She let ppl believe it's Clouds fault.
Like seriously did you read the novel and played the game? Tifa literally forced Cloud to promise her to rescue her when he's a famous soldier, why else do this other than WANTING a hero? And yeah, he willingly promised AFTER Tifa pushed him to promise herxD
Tifa only started talking about the past after Cloud had a mental breakdown and severe mako poisoning, she could told him at any point in the game (he asked multiple times) but noo, SHE needed time. Seph made Cloud believe he's not real, just a puppet and Tifa LET him believe it, she didn't say anything! Even if she was afraid that he'll leave or whatever reason, it's no excuse to keep the truth from him imo. Especially when Seph taunted him to just be a Seph clone and not a real person.
We know he's single in AC 100%. Read OTWTAS too, they're a 'family of friends' as Tifa calls them so herself. Their actions also speak for themselves... If Tifa was said to be Clouds gf, then ok, that's how it is, but it DIDN'T. It still said they're friends, while in OTWTAS Cloud was said to be Aeriths 'lover/koibito' and in DoC the one 'engraved in [Clouds] heart forever. Plus in every single cameo Cloud is in, he's looking for Aerith in the promised land. Every single time. I think that makes clerith 100000% canon
@@ElectronicStar24 When Cloud says he is going to meet Aerith in The Promised Land. Tifa says she's going to go with him. That alone calls into question whether Cloud and Aerith will engage in anything romantic. I'm not saying they can't, but...what the heck is Tifa going to do there? Just watch while the two of them kiss in front of her? My interpretation of the scene was that he wanted to see Aerith again just to speak with her, and maybe ask her for her forgiveness, which is a serious concern for Cloud later on in Advent Children. I didn't read anything romantic into it. I'm not saying you can't. I'm just saying that it's not the only way to read that scene.
When Tifa asks Cloud if he loves her in On The Way to a Smile, he never gives her a straight answer. This could be because he doesn't feel that way about her, or it could be because he does feel that way, but he doesn't feel like he has the right to say it. A huge problem he faces in Advent Children is that he doesn't feel like he deserves to be happy. Cloud sees himself as a failure. He couldn't save Zack, couldn't save Aerith, can't find a cure to save Denzel, and Cloud himself is going to die soon, believing that his life amounted to nothing of value in the end. So yeah, he does distance himself from his family after becoming depressed, and he goes to the church when he thinks he's going to die. He feels completely undeserving of any form of happiness, because he believes he failed everyone important to him in his life, but by the end of Advent Children he is over that. By the end of that movie, Cloud has learned to forgive himself, and realizes that it's okay for him to be happy. It's okay for him to love, and be loved by others. So he moves back in with Tifa and the kids after the movie is over, because that is the place where he feels the happiest. After that point, we don't know what happens to Cloud in terms of his personal relationships. Maybe he and Tifa are still just friends. Maybe they are dating. Hell, they could have even gotten engaged at some point after the movie for all we know. It's never discussed one way, or the other.
Cloud says he hadn't visited Tifa's room before in the OG, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have just gone to her front door, and asked her to play when they were kids. What we learn in Traces of Two Pasts doesn't actually conflict with anything we learn in the OG. Tifa in the OG says that she and Cloud weren't actually that close as kids. That statement is still completely true if they played together when they were very young, and then grew apart at the age of 6. That still means they spent less than half of their childhood together. I wouldn't call that close at all. The book doesn't contradict anything. It just gives further context to their relationship, and explains why Tifa still calls herself Cloud's childhood friend, even in as far into the timeline as Dirge of Cerberus. It's not a lie to say they were childhood friends, because they were…when they were very young. They just grew apart as they got older, as friends often do, and then reconnected as adults. I really think that what was outlined in the book is how Nojima always intended their relationship to come across. It just wasn't super clear in the original game from 1997, either because they lacked the time to further develop the relationship, or maybe because something important was lost in the translation from Japanese to English.
As I explained in my previous comment. Tifa cannot remember the accident on Mt. Nibel. She knows that she was there for some reason, and that she got hurt while she was there, but that's all she knows. The actual details for how she got up there, and why she was there in the first place are a complete blank in her mind. She lost all of those memories when she hit her head. She can't remember at all. So it's literally impossible for her to set the record straight, and get the townspeople to stop blaiming Cloud and Claudia, because she doesn't remember what happened. As far as she is aware, the story that her friends gave really could have been what happened. She can't be expected to explain things to the townspeople when she doesn't even remember herself.
Of course Aerith is engraved in Cloud's heart forever. When you love someone, they are ALWAYS going to remain a part of you, even after the grief has diminished, and you start to move on. Whatever the results of the love triangle may be for each player, it's a known fact that Cloud has feelings for both Aerith and Tifa during the events of FFVII. So even if the person playing the game should choose the Tifa romance route in the end, that still doesn't change the fact that Cloud has feelings for both girls. So of course Aerith's death is still going to hit him hard, and he's still going to remember her long after her death. The same would be true if Tifa had been the one to get killed, because he loves them both. The way I see it, the FFVII love triangle is kind of like Spider-Man and the MJ/Gwen Stacey situation. Even when Peter realizes that he has very real feelings for MJ, he never...EVER forgets Gwen. Both girls are always precious to him, just as Aerith and Tifa are both precious to Cloud.
@@DevilHunter1994 Well, it's not the 1st time Tifa invites herself...When Cloud says in OTWTAS that Aerith brought Denzel to him she says 'no to US',
Cloud:'It's my problem'
Tifa:'Can't it be our problem?'
Cloud: .....
And then she tells Cloud that she wants to go to the church with him and right at the next day he's gone. (not to mention ACs credits where he's driving to a flower field to search for her and has tons of pics of flower fields on his desk)
I leave this one without comment. It's your interpretation and that's ok^^ (I do agree at some points)
Don't forget that Barret lives with them, too and after DoC Shelke joined. Just a tiny note ;D
But when Tifa backpedaled and asked if he loved Marlene, he immediately gave a clear 'yes, but idk how to act around her'. I just think he could've given Tifa a clear answer as well...🤔 Idk that's just a little weird for me.
Dude, no, they haven't been friends at all. Tifa THINKS they are. And since TOTP is from her pov, then ofc she'd say this. The truth came out in the lifestream scene. Yes, we saw Cloud going up to her house, but Tifa and friends didn't care.
Also in the book she at least remembered she went to Mt. Nibel, that it was HER idea. Still she saw the village blame Cloud for everything and instead of saying 'it was my idea to go up there' she only said 'sorry'. The villager think Cloud dragged her up there. Even if no one would believe her, she could've at least TRY...😢
I just think Tifa is frustrating for not opening her mouth, yknow...Just try girl, that's all I'm asking for q.q
Last one I agree. Cloud did say there's nothing he doesn't cherish^^
With all the little hints SE put everywhere I think they wanted to let fans know that Clouds true love is Aerith. Imo^^
@@ElectronicStar24 Tifa likely didn't want her crush to see what a mess she was after her mom died. The context of that scene in her room was that she was grieving her mother's death, and crying nonstop. This would also have been two years after they drifted apart, so the whole situation would be pretty awkward.
As for Tifa's friends, they didn't care because Tifa's friends were never Cloud's friends. That's the thing. Cloud liked Tifa, and wanted to hang out with her, but he didn't want anything to do with her other friends. Given what TOTP adds to what we know of their relationship, it's a safe bet that Cloud and Tifa did play together when they were very young, like Tifa said, but as she started hanging out with the other boys more, often, Cloud started to distance himself.
This even lines up with a new flashback that was added to Remake. In Mako Reactor 1, when Jessie and Cloud are talking about his relationship to Tifa, there's a brief flashback from the perspective of Cloud as a child. He walks out his front door, and sees Tifa hanging out with her friends. Tifa calls out to him right away, to get him to join them, but Cloud keeps walking. Tifa then pouts, gets angry, and says "Are you ignoring me!?" So Tifa's memory, and Cloud's memory seem to line up on this issue. They were close enough at one time that Tifa would happily call out to Cloud, and ask him to play, without even really thinking about it, but at some point, Cloud grew more distant. This could have been from simple jealousy on his part, not liking the idea that his friend, and crush was hanging out with other boys, or it could have been because the other boys were pushing Cloud away whenever Tifa wasn't looking. Either way, all the pieces line up. All the information we have suggests that the two were friends at a very early age, but then grew apart. Everything Tifa says in the OG still makes total sense, even with the added information and context that TOTP, and Remake give us.
I don't find it wierd at all that he could say that he loved Marlene. We're talking about a 6 year old child. It's not like Tifa was asking Cloud if he was in love with Marlene. Love in this context would mean something very different. So it's not surprising that he would be able to respond more easily.
When Tifa asked "Do you love me?" She was obviously asking if Cloud had romantic feelings for her. That would be a much more difficult question to answer when you factor in Cloud's depression, his guilt over Aerith, and his growing sense of self hatred. Even if he did return Tifa's feelings, his belief that he was undeserving of happiness would make it near impossible to answer her question honestly. Like, imagine that the person you loved basically just confessed to you, but you're 100% convinced that you're no good for that person, and can only ever make them miserable. What are you even supposed to say in a situation like that?
I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding you somehow, but the way you describe these situations in OTWTAS, it's like you think Tifa is just being a bother, and forcing herself into situations that she has no place in. I don't think that's how it's intended to come off. If anything, I think the intent in those moments was to portray Cloud as in the wrong for trying to push Tifa away. By the time Cloud meets Denzel, he's already suffering from depression. He's convinced that Aerith must blame him for her death, and that he needs to find some way to make it up to her. He thinks that curing Denzel is his way of doing that. He sees it as a trial given to him by Aerith. In his mind, she's basically telling him:
"If you want my forgiveness Cloud, then save this kid. Save him to make up for the fact that you couldn't save me."
What Cloud is doing here is...totally unhealthy. Aerith would never do something like that to Cloud. She doesn't even blame Cloud for her death in the first place, so there's nothing he even nees to seek forgiveness for. Cloud is pushing the people that love him away, and trying to take everything on by himself for no good reason. This is not a good thing, and that's why Tifa keeps wanting to stay near Cloud. She doesn't want him alone because she can tell that Cloud 's mind is in a very dark and unhealthy place, and the last thing he needs is to be left alone with those dark thoughts. She also keeps saying that Denzel's condition is something they need to solve together, because whether you see their relationship as platonic, or romantic, they are still a family. Solving life's hard problems together is what family is supposed to do. So I think Tifa is absolutely justified in saying what she does.
The ship war is the final boss.
Thank you for this video, Josephyr. Unfortunately, the situation in the fandom is really toxic, and I've realized that I myself, being a quiet and respectful member of 'one faction' of shippers, am suffering. Perhaps because my faction is the most bullied (you can imagine which one!), but maybe also because my own faction often turns out to be quite toxic.
People don't understand that the love triangle and the complexity of Cloud's feelings are unique to FF7 only, not present in other titles of the series (although love isn't one of the main themes of the game).
I have a theory about why such rivalry has formed between the two fandoms: after the game's release, word spread that Aerith would die and therefore it wouldn't make sense to level her up. The famous meme 'don't level Aerith' to put it simply. As a result, today there's a huge portion of gamers who have only been able to interact with, appreciate, and love Tifa, among the two, and see Aerith's few interactions with Cloud as annoying intrusions, not having the chance to get to know her because she's never kept in the party. Thus, for many people, the only possible relationship (also because the only one that lasts until the end of the game is with Tifa). I guess over the years, fans of the tragic love story (always just hinted at, to be clear) between Cloud and Aerith have resented this behavior, also because 'Cloti' fans do not admit the possibility that the other version might exist. And so there are also 'Clerith' fans who say that the relationship between Cloud and Tifa can never be canonical due to other factors (the initial relationship scores, which favor Aerith, Cait With's words, and other clues in the game). But even this doesn't make complete sense. Then came Crisis Core, a nice spin-off but full of fan service, with its tendency to polarize relationships into Cloti and Zerith, but fortunately, the Remake trilogy seems to be recapturing the complexity, ambiguity, and especially the discretion that the relational aspect has always had in FF7.
As you say, the love triangle is an important marketing value, but beyond that, in my opinion, it's also a characteristic identity feature that made FF7 unique.
I wish fans would understand this and continue to love their own ship while respecting others'.
I'm firmly of the opinion that Cloud loved both Aerith and Tifa romantically but in different ways. Aerith is more assertive with Cloud and has better social skills, which helps her break through his cold outer shell and coax out his warmer side. Tifa was too shy at first to admit her feelings, but Aerith's death + the Lifestream and Under the Highwind scenes solidify this fact.
At the same time, the Compilation and Advent Children novels are very clear that Cloud's relationship with Tifa is complicated by his guilt over Aerith's death, and his exact feelings for Tifa are never stated, only inferred from their actions.
All we know is that Tifa helped Cloud readjust to a normal life, they run a delivery service, and they co-parent Denzel and Marlene. They sleep in separate rooms (Cloud sometimes sleeping in Aerith's church), Cloud had taken up drinking, and Tifa is frustrated in the face of Cloud's self destructive behavior.
In OG and Rebirth, the only thing the affection point system affects is the Gold Saucer dates, which are non-canon (per the Ultimanias). However, it's important to note that Remake Aerith's Gold Saucer sentiments of wanting to be with the "real" Cloud (his shy awkward self, not his cold SOLDIER persona) are repeated in the non-optional Sleeping Forest and Dream Date scenes. While his resemblence (clothes, SOLDIER title, and body language) to Zack caught her eye, she acknowledges that Cloud is not Zack and she loves him for himself. The tragedy is that while she sees the real Cloud, she dies before Cloud understand his true nature himself and their relationship moves beyond the initial stages. (Disc 1 only lasted a few months or a few weeks depending on if you're talking about OG or the Compilation)
None of this is to diminish his bond with or any future romance with Tifa. Aerith dies no matter the story. However, at this point in the story, Aerith is the primary love interest within the non-optional storyline. Remake/Rebirth are going to lead into Advent Children, which means we're probably going to see some of the friction in Cloud and Tifa's relationship alongside the good stuff.
I hate how they try to “cancel” the creators for doing what they want with their own characters as if they’re real people.
Not the shippers! Look, I think Cloud and Tifa are gonna end up together, but I was TOTALLY NOT BOTHERED by Cloud and Aerith getting all cuddly. In fact, I was like “Oh🫢😏”
actually, this is my favorite reply. I'm a Cloti, but I'm all about very close friendships.. and as long as Tifa knows she's Cloud's ride or die... interlocking fingers with Aerith and them being super close as well isn't a red flag.
The problem is that devs themselves have been feeding this conflict (unwillingly) for 26 years with official stuff like novels, ultimanias, etc. They did confirm that not only one but both ships were/are canon at some point of the story. Ex: According to the novel on the way to a smile, Aerith supposedly was Cloud's lover, and in the AC reunion files Tifa's profile state she is Cloud's lover, written by Nomura and Nojima themselves.
I love Cloud, I understand this love triangle is part of his development but I will never support any kind of harassment. Sadly I don' t see how this can come to an end.
@user-ky8nd2rz4fyour idea is the reason why this ship war will never end. Let just wait and see what the 3rd part of the Remake will bring to us 😂
i think no matter who you ship and how you feel about it, harassing the writers is never okay and should always be condemned. in part 2 of the story aerith becomes a more prominent character so it's not surprising that they'd focus a bit more on her and her relationship with cloud in the trailer. tifa's character becomes a lot more important and explored later on but i'm sure she'll have her moments in part 2 as well...
furthermore even if the devs decide to lean more torwards aerith x cloud, they already confirmed that there will be date mechanics so you can still choose your favorite character and who to take on the date etc... i personally i don't mind seeing aerith and cloud's relationship being more developed at all especially since they have great chemistry in the remake but i knew it'd upset the toxic shippers. shipping can be fun but once you make it your whole personality, it can get dangerous.
i love that the love triangle in ff7 is ambiguous and left for interpretation but at the same time that's the reason why there's such a big ship war because there can be valid arguments made for both ships and you'll never come up with one solid conclusion since neither ship has been confirmed to be "the one" by the creators. i just wish people kept their arguments in their circle instead of attacking the writers...plus like you showed in the vid nojima had already said that in the remake there would be less room for player imagination and they'd be changing up some things. even though they're keeping the soul of the original, we should expect changes, hence why it's a remake and not a remaster...
one thing that i've also seen a lot lately and that genuinely upsets me is the mischaracterisation of characters. i've seen people call aerith and cloud traitors, calling cloud of all people a manwhore (hilarious if you ask me), completely slut shaming aerith and tifa... it's sad because these characters are so great and people have to resort to just blindly hating and mischaracterising them in order to validate their ship when in reality the romance aspect isn't even the main focus of the story. anyway, if you ever feel so mad about a fictional ship to the point where you feel the need to attack and harass the creators of the story, i think it's time to take a step back and do some self-reflection.
Harassment is never valid. NEVER! Doesn't matter what it is about. Real people will always be more important than fiction. Not to mention, why should you spread toxicity if you can just enjoy and share the things you like?
Yes, shipping wars get absolutely hectic and toxic.
But one reason I die on the hill that is Clerith is because so many people deny and invalidate the fact that Cloud loves Aerith at all. You will never hear me say Cloud doesn't love Tifa. HE DOES. He loves BOTH girls, ffs!
That's not a hard concept to grasp at all. Even in the comments here, people deny the entirety of the love TRIANGLE. Even if that means ruining the characterizations of Cloud and Aerith to be all about Zack, that's just one example. It undermines the story to say Cloud never had any bond or connection with Aerith whether platonic or romantic. To say Aerith is substituting Cloud for Zack or Cloud is Zack around Aerith.
I could write a whole essay on the crazy claims I've seen people make to try and prove that Cloud and Aerith have nothing between them. Either way, I expected that trailer to anger people, but I didn't expect it to get to this level.
i have always shipped cloud and tifa. Always have and always will. but i'm not blind to the fact that the original ff7 had date components in it and remake and rebirth reflect that to varying degree's. Also, aerith is a charming girl as well so i don't hold it against the trailer for showing those scenes sense maybe tifa will have her own variation, who knows. if not, thats fine. It's an unknown journey and i wanna see where this story goes. Were all ff7 fans now aren't we :)
@futurewarriorhero123 No one cares. Aerith is the heroine, always has been, always will be.
@@elizabethchint6485 it’s a matter of perspective
@@elizabethchint6485Aerith will still need to die in the 2nd part 😅
I'm just glad Remake seems to be leaning into the clearly superior ship of Tifa x Aerith
based!
Nah those shippers are just the ones pretending while they're happy. As soon as a trailer like this comes out and one of the girls is all over cloud they turn the worst of them all 😂
@@AnnouncerNi lmao 100% truth
And ofc Cloud x Sephiroth!
One funny thing i hears from some people is that they say the devs ship CloudxAerith. Like that doesn’t make sense. Shipping is the term used by fans not the devs. When the author makes two people fall in love, that’s how the story goes, thety are not shipping anything. The word is for us fans to use when we want to support the couples we love. But sometimes our ship may sail and may not sail, but whatever the case, accept the results for what it is. Don’t act as if it’s the end of the world. And this is not to mention that the trailer hasn’t even shown they are an item yet. Sure it is leaning towards Aerith but it’s still not certain yet so Cloti still has hope. So why those toxic fans can’t just wait and see the story through to the end. Would they seriouslybe happy if the devs would switch to cloti as a result of their blackmailing. That’s seriously pathetic man.
Ship by itself is literally a harmless word and act. I ship it just means I like something/someone together.
It's meant to be fun. It doesn't even have to be canon.
In Asia, we're usually and mainly keep to ourselves.
If we don't like it then sure, we just stay in our lane. Hence why we tag our posts etc. To be respectful of others as well as creating a safe place for the ship.
IDK why lately it's becoming so bad and some people are being overboard and toxic about it. Like they purposely go out of their way to force someone to follow their opinions.
Furthermore the story didn't change anything. Cloud and Aerith are important to the story regardless if they're canon or not.
IMO those Clotis who are so salty abt it was angry because they had always invalidate Aerith's role to the story and Cloud. A lot of times I've seen them saying Aerith isn't the heroine or that she's not as important to Cloud etc.
Hence when was shown of her importance blatantly, they can't accept it.
I just think some people have trouble shipping Cloud with a dead person. If she were still alive at the end they wouldn't mind it, but to have main character mourn over a dead lover for all eternity is lame. Atleast with other option they are alive. People want the main character to be happy and after all he goes through he deserves to be.
@@stephentrader9142 how is it lame? ever heard of tragic love stories? starcrossed lovers? it's not even about who you ship cloud with, you can absolutely ship him with tifa but using the "at least tifa's alive" excuse to disregard aerith as a romantic interest for cloud cheapens the story because you're not thinking about the themes of the story or what it wants to convey, you just want to see cloud end up with someone and since tifa is the only one alive out of two suddenly that makes her the only option by default. reducing the characters and the story to mere ships options cheapens the narrative. plus ff7 has never been about cloud having an happy ending with a girl and living his best life. if that's what you got out of the story i suggest you to replay the game.
As a veteran of FF7. I've seen this since 1997. Ship what you want to ship, but do it in a way where it doesn't hurt anyone. These characters are near and dear to everyone and especially the people behind the game; they are working hard on this game. Getting hate over shipping nonsense is absolutely ridiculous and not to mention illegal. These fans can't harass the developers like this. If it escalates too far, they can outright cancel the game if they feel like it. Whatever end game happens with this game, you can still ship Cloud x Aerith or Cloud x Tifa or whatever you want to ship despite the outcome of the ending of this game.
Personally, I am a Cloud x Tifa shipper and Zack x Aerith shipper. Do I care if they get it on, absolutely not. That's not how life works. These "fans" need to get out and touch grass.
And you're absolutely right. Romance isn't the central focus of this game. There is so much more to this game than just romance.
As a shipper myself shippers ruin everything. People keep your head cannon to yourself
I don’t care about the shippers. By the end, our boy needs a hand massage by Madam M and a vacation with the guys Barret, Cid, Vincent, Cait Sith, Red. Heck, let’s throw Chadley in there for good measures. Ask Rufus to pay for it 😅
The whole thing is ridiculous. Aerith and Tifa are both among the greatest female gaming characters of all time. Not really sure what value there is in trying to elevate one of them at the expense of the other, just let them be. In the game you can have Cloud play it either way and that's how it should be.
Ire towards the developers....seriously, have a word with yourselves.
This ongoing war is absolutely hilarious. I sure do have my shipping preferences but I undoubtedly enjoy both Claerith and Cloti. In some ways I suppose a big part of this is someone identifying as one person in this triangle and of course hoping for their favourite ship, thus being involved in a parasocial relationship.
At this point (parasocial relationship aside) shipping community just absolutely disregards and disrespects Clouds emotional state and feelings which is, in my opinion, probably the worst thing to do especially if you're already at that state where it's that important to you that two people who straight up do not exist get together. You might as well have that tiny bit of respect to let (in that case Cloud) decide for himself and not ignore his actual feelings. [Before I repeat myself again as I'm not sure whether my point actually came across, I'm just gonna stop here]
I'm actually at this point that I enjoy headcanon shippers more as they are just not that awful around other shippers.
It's so lovely to see a comment that takes Cloud's feelings into all of this. If anyone gets a bashing all the time in these shipping wars, it's poor Cloud. It's as though some shippers only view Cloud as an accessory. Sad, but true!
Oh twitter, the place where reason goes to die
I will never understand stan culture. Don’t these people have other things to do!?
Thank you. Time and again FF7 was already said that the romance is up to interpretations. And time and again I get attacked for saying that by Cloti fans, saying Cloud and Tifa is canon.
Not it's not.
Even in AC it's left ambiguous.
There's a reason why they don't have celebration for a couple for ff7 compared to other couple like from ff9, 10 13 etc
Because it's up players choices and interpretations. That's all.
Brilliant video! Amidst the dozens of videos out there analysing the trailers, nitpicking on every frame for stuff we missed, spoiling everything, your commentary on this one feels like a breath of fresh air. What everyone fails to see; trailers are meant to throw you off. Once the game is released we'll finally get to see when each line is said and under what context. Same with every scene that has been thrown in the trailer mix. Awesome video, Jo! 👍
Funny enough we *do* know exactly where these scenes that are causing such an uproar come from. They're from the... optional date scene. Meaning Tifa will have similar ones (and Barret and Yuffie but they won't be romantic I'd imagine). Imagine throwing a fit over something that has always existed.
Like how are you throwing insults at the characters involved in a scene that isn't even new, and not the sappy love ballad that's entirely new... someone make it make sense (oh I know because that song can be argued to be about Zack instead... when it is very clearly a response to Hollow, Remake part 1's theme song. Which has been confirmed to be from Cloud's pov...)
@@tatri292 to be honest, I'm a sucker for sappy stuff 😊 and this particularly feels like an homage to the Opera scene in Final Fantasy VI, doesn't it??
The absolute tone deafness in the comments here by arguing which ship is better is really staggering
Thank you!!
I'll preface this by saying I don't participate in shipping wars online. This is personal thoughts.
I've swung back and forth between the Tifa and Aerith camps and have had petty thoughts. The first time I played OG I somehow became so pissed at Aeris being a "man" stealer that I laughed at the end of Disc 1. Then I became angry at Tifa for hiding the truth from Cloud in Disc 2 that I stopped using her in my party. Cloud reaching for Aeriths hand after the Sephiroth fight was so beautiful I forgave her hussy ways lol. 20 playthroughs later, I had fond feelings for both characters as I spent a lot of time thinking about their story arcs.
In AC, I liked Tifa more because while her English VA was bad, Aeriths was even worse. Watching it in Japanese made me like them both again.
In Remake, I was actually shocked at myself by how angry Tifas character made me even though her VA is amazing during my first playthrough. I used her as little as possible. Part of it was the awkward fan service of talking about showers and it being VERY clear she was a sex object to everyone who didn't know her. Aerith FINALLY had a great VA and I really enjoyed her chapters. Again, the more I played it the less Tifa bothered me.
Cloud is such an amazing character that I think I like or dislike whoever is playing off him the best and giving me insight into his struggles. I'm not a Zerith fan only because they recycled Cloud and Aerith moments lessening their importance. If Zack and Aeriths thing was completely unique and not borrowing existing FF7 tropes then I would've have a problem.
I'm on team Cloud so whoever is bringing out the strongest emotional reactions in him and thus me the viewer is whose camp Im in at that moment. I'm open to changing my mind on who to root for when I see where the story is going and thinking Cloud is 100% this or 100% that is boring and doesn't do his character justice.
At last someone who actually understands Cloud and sees his side of things - totally agree with you team Cloud all the way!!!
!
Tbf Nojima has already confirmed Aerith loves Cloud via the novalisation. It was also the case in the original, with Aerith being the cannon options with the date scene.
Rebirth will confirm once and for all who Cloud will kiss.
@@fernicusmaximus9282😂😂
@@fernicusmaximus9282double optionally and then give 0 fuck about it, interlocking fingers with Aerith non-optionally 😊
Ah, don’t you forget Advent Children and Nomura’s characterization of Tifa as “a woman left behind by a man”. Smells like some second choice for me 😅
@@KoriDess A kiss is more romantic than holding hands. Take away the optional date scene and the game is still leaning more towards Tifa. The problem with you Cleriths is that you like to obsess, overanalyze and nitpick every single pointless detail from past material. No ship has been confirmed not in the original game, advent children, ultimania, etc. Developers know how crazy fans will get if they don't get their ship lmao. Once they are done with this trilogy maybe they will put an end to your insanity. 😂
@@fernicusmaximus9282 You tell me the game packed with non-optional Clerith dates, scenes, trophies, romantic side quests and main theme song is leaning towards some second choice with 3 non-optional scenes and of them is blatant liar accusing Cloud for not trusting her in Kalm? Imao, if you did that mental gymnastics irl, you’d probably be at Olympics rn xD
A kiss is more romantic for western fans. In Japanese culture hand holding has a special name for it, “koibito tsunagi” and it symbolizes ethereal love. Guess with who Cloud initiates the very koibito tsunagi after beating Seph, regardless of any kiss or “almost kiss”? Lemme help. Not with some second choice :)
Fans fighting over the ship between tifa-cloud vs aerith-cloud... Why not both?... I love them both... It doesn't matter which ship would sail... The most important we love FF7 and the whole the FF series franchise... Be thankful that sqex give back ff7 with a remake... Just enjoy the ride of the story...
Bc not everyone love them both obviously, but that's not a reason to arrass thr devs
Clerith is way more interesting than Clifa
If she lived I'd agree
@@stephentrader9142This didn’t age well. So yep, Clerith >>> Clownti
3 months later... The Clerith and Cloti shipping fandom has gotten even worse... Even Zertihs have gotten in on the action... The meaning behind NPTK has recently brought out the worst out of all three shipping groups...
i think at the end of the day, no one is forced to like any ship that doesnt cater to their taste. with that being said, clerith is still pretty much canon and kinda always has been, especially from a narrative stand point. yes the original game was more open to interpretation but there is so much evidence that suggests cloud and tifa never got together; evidence by the devs/writers themselves. and again, just because you dont personally ship clerith, its kinda delusional to deny that they ( along with sephiroth ) are essential the game.
and because it needs to be said, stop harassing devs about this, shipping is never that serious. and whether or not either ship becomes canon, that shouldn't take away anyone's enjoyment of their ships. shipping is meant to be fun at the end of the day.
Cloud being depressed for the rest of his life and single is the only thing I don't agree with. It is like move on man.
Shipping wars breeds some of the worst toxicity you’ll ever see in entertainment. SE really is in a lose lose situation because even if they named a canon pair it would probably cause more problems than it would solve because the winning side would gloat and the losing side would never let SE hear the end of it.
Yeah, if one side won, then they would proceed to send death threats, insults, racial slurs, sexist slurs, homophobic slurs, and all other nasty stuff that will make the other side feel deeply discouraged to the point that they would kill themselves. Square is going to receive lawsuits and lose half of their fanbase that way.
As a Cloud x Sephiroth fan since 97 (mainly because the memes of Sephiroth trolling Cloud were hilarious to me), I'm still very happy I'm getting those moments in Remake. My head conon is Sephiroth is either a-sexual or Cloud is the only one who has stirred "an emotional response". Thanks Chadley. Sorry long fan theory coming because I love me some theories.
As for Clerith and Cloti, I don't get why it's so fiery. My interpretation is that Cloud loved both girls at different parts of the story and not at the same time. This is my OG interpretation, and Remake so far lines up with it.
Kid Cloud had a crush on kid Tifa. Tifa didn't crush back until Cloud left town.
21 yr Cloud was a bit messed up. I think he wasn't sure how to feel about Tifa and OG Tifa was dropping zero obvious enough hints that Cloud would have picked up. Tifa did see the glow up of her crush and the only remnant of family left, but her "heart was locked."
Enter Aerith, who dropped flirty hints like a sledgehammer. Cloud being a shy boy, wasn't sure how to respond but he seemed to warm up to the idea. I really feel her leaving at the Sleeping Forest inspired him to realize how strong his feelings were. Aerith then takes a vacation, and like Tifa, I think Clouds interest/love grew even further with her absense, which was mixed in with all of his rage, grief, revenge, and planet saving.
Tifa and Cloud get a chance to slowly bond as people rather than crushes based on childhood ideas. They are both shy and introverted, which reminds me of Clive and Jill. This means that while their feelings are strong, they have trouble being direct with each other, which causes a budding relationship to move much slowly then average (Not as slow as Clive and Jill - still annoyed at that)
Based on AC and the books by Nojima, they are in a relationship, living together and raising kids. Clouds survival guilt and his personality that likes to dwell on the past and EVERY mistake he made has him struggling BAD. Him and Tifas communication is still rocky, but it's assumed he goes back home to her at the end.
So my interpretation is both ships are doomed.
Aerith x Cloud for "long distance reasons"
Tifa x Cloud because of "issues with communication"
That's the beauty of Remake. Clouds obsession with the past, PTSD and survivers guilt gives him a chance to "Remake" all the mistakes he has obsessed over. I think Rebirth is going to reveal early that EVERY character (not just Cloud) has lived the OG and now has a chance to do it better.
Tifa will flirt more and is dropping strong hints ASAP. (Same with Jesse)
Aerith doesn't want Cloud to become suicidal like he did in AC and tries to friend zone him to protect him but she can't help be flirty and be playful.
I believe Cloud wants to find out if Aerith is the girl who got away so he can stop obsessing on what ifs. He might be more direct with her this time before it's too late. The theme trailer and Hollow point to this.
Sephiroth gets to keep giving Cloud sexy eyes while torturing him ❤ 😅
It's a BEAUTIFUL story! It's messy, feelings are fluid, and whatever ship you like, you WILL get something to be happy about. Id give Nojima a billion bouquets for the joy his characters have given me.
It's going to be a win win. If Cloud comes to terms with if things are possible with Aerith and works through that in time then we will get some great moments there. if Aerith doesn't work out, he won't have any regrets or distractions that let's him focus on Tifa and more great moments.
I prefer Cloud ends up alone but finds some peace, but I won't riot if he finds romance (with anyone)
I agree with all you have put apart from Cloud being alone. The boy deserves to be loved and to enjoy a happy relationship with someone. I prefer Tifa in Rebirth as you can see by their interactions how much they care for each other. That said, I never get into shipping arguments and respect both sides!
First of all, this is a conversation that NEEDS to happen.
Secondly, you mentioned THREE of my video game QUEENS in one video! Bayonetta, Aerith & Tifa. I LOVE ALL of them. They’re all great.
Back to the topic at hand, no clue as to why people go as far as they do. It’s weird.
Crisis core was the reason this shipping war happens !!!
I love Clerith very much and Tifa, oh my god LOVE HER. MWAH MWAH. HER AND AERITH MWAH MWAH. They are both amazing and gorgeous girls. I just wish that both Clerith and Cloti shippers could voice their opinions without bringing the girls down. It's extremely disappointing. I'm very happy with the amount of Clerith in the new trailer! and if they ever make a Cloti trailer, good for them! To threaten and harass the devs just because you didn't like the contents in the trailer is SO STUPID. I've seen harcore shippers dedicate their whole life to their favourite ships, it's concerning. Go fishing, read a book, GET SOME FRESH AIR IDK???
I remember back in the day we just wrote fanfic about ships that we liked that didn't work out. Now people have destory each other, the franchise, fanfic writers, artists, etc. It's insanity.
I officially knew the Cloti/Clerith shipping wars was at rock bottom when I saw a video of two people getting married at a convention. They were cosplayed as their prefered pairing and someone had the nerve to interupt the wedding to yell about how the other girl was better. How crazed do you have to be to insult a BRIDE ON HER WEDDING DAY over a ship!
The problem really is just that folk don't know how to stay in their own little communities about it.
I totally get hating a ship. I get the frustration of seeing a ship you hate popping up when you don't want to be reminded of it. I despise one of the most popular ships in the FF7 franchise. So I REALLY get how frustrating it is to feel like you can't avoid something you don't like about a franchise that you otherwise adore, but folk really need to learn that they aren't the only people in the fucking room sometimes.
Who was the bride dressing up as?
@@orome9793 It was a Clerith wedding where Tifa was the maid of honor.
I blame Square Enix for this. They know how much toxicity is caused by shippers for this love triangle thing but they continuously feed into it knowing it generates talk. They don't care how toxic the community gets over it as long as it makes them money.
And the love triangle is what made it one of the most popular final fantasy games
@@stephentrader9142 Doesn't make it any less toxic.
@@blazinblakebz I think there is another reason why Square kept it ambiguous too. They don't want to lose half their fanbase which equals less money.
Used to be part of a forum back in the mid-late 2000s, and yeah... the fandom gets crazy lol. Had no idea how deep it ran up until then
_facepalm_
Apologies if you cover most of this in the vid, Josephyr.
One could argue that the original game had a "something for everyone" aspect in the Gold Saucer date minigame. There's even a "Cloud/Barret bromance" route if you decide you don't want to go out with any of the other possible options. It may have been taken as low-brow (what would now be less acceptable) humor, but it was there.
But the original game, if you weren't really paying attention to the early dialogue choices in Midgar, was a bit more weighted towards Aerith if memory serves. I had to try a little harder with the help of a walkthrough to get the other routes.
One of the purposes of the remake series is to flesh out the world more, especially since the original was kind of "stuck at beta" on release. So I'm not surprised to see more Cloud/Tifa moments in the remake, which naturally got shippers excited. But we fans are ultimately not the ones who get to decide who officially goes out with whom, and Japanese media producers who do not want a romantic theme in their creations can be notorious for insisting on ambiguity, and those who do often keep the audience guessing so they keep consuming the next chapter, then the next.
All I can say to the shippers is, there's a reason Rule 34 exists, and 3D animation software doesn't belong to Square Enix alone (in fact I don't think they're the best at it).
I like your video bro, but what you described were themes within the plot, but not the plot itself. The story is what happens from point a to point b in the tale, the plot covers the why these things happen in the story, and what we experience in the way of feelings is the narrative. For example they want us to believe that Cloud is a Soldier 1st class, and that there is a fun relationship with Aerith and an awkward one with Tifa. The plot explains why that awkwardness is there. What most people don’t get is that there are 2 plots going on in this story, the external one of stopping Sephiroth from destroying the planet via meteor and the internal one of saving Cloud’s soul. Each of these ladies takes up their role within the story. Aerith the heroine of the external plot and Tifa of the internal one. When looking at the plot from the beginning, you’ll see a boy fall in love with the girl next door and doing anything to try to get her attention. The first time we meet these characters were in the middle of the plot and at Cloud and Tifa’s lowest point in their romance story. All-in-all the entire journey from the beginning of the game to the end takes about a month and Aerith is there for about a week of it. Cross that versus a woman the MC had been trying to impress nearly his whole life and there’s no comparison. It just doesn’t make much sense to me. Especially once the girl you like saves you, as far as I know that doesn’t make someone love them less. 😂 That being said harassing devs is waaaaayyyyy too much.
Totally agree!
I can't understand why people cannot like Tifa and Aerith at the same time. They're both amazing girls and characters.
Back to the trailer, I think that Rebirth is going to glorify the Aerith character but then they finally will put some romance between Cloud and Tifa in the 3rd part of the Remake... I know romance is not the focus but something tells me they are going to put some of this to complete their work and effort on this remake (I would totally not be surprised by a Tifa-Cloud kiss in the final part even if they don't end as a proper "couple"). Anyway it's up to the creators, and we just have to follow, play and enjoy.
@tougenkyou5867 yeah I mean rebirth is a chapter focus more on aerith for her story and also because she is supposed to end her time with cloud here so they have to use now some "shipping scenes" with Cloud...
Oh man, I got a lot to say, so I'm going to post a bunch of comments to help the algorithm, but try to remain reasonable at the same time. First off, I want to say thank you for the video. I feel that this is an argument that is almost like a dirty secret in the Final Fantasy fan base and it's been around about as long as social media and the internet, going back to the release of the game itself in 1997, but no one wants to have a real conversation about this debate, so I'm really glad to see an honest and peaceful attempt to address this topic.
I really liked hearing the analysis in this video on "head-canon" and how people's emotions do get strongly wrapped up in these sorts of things. It was also an eye-opener for me to hear about the Captain America backlash because I grew up reading comics and they are a never ending series of reveals followed by retcons, so I've never let anything in the comic book world bother me personally.
My love for 7 is the story, the end of remake was wrote for the fear of the unknown for the characters and fans. The central focus for original was wrote about the loss of a loved one and how the mental struggle & uncertainty unfolds. Then to come together with strength for a purpose. From my perspective, Till the series is finished will see if the story upholds those story beats.
Before playing the FF7 Remake I didn't even know that this shipping issue even existed.
Long story short, I totally fell in love with Aerith in the Remake. Well nothing wrong with that. So I thought.
As soon as I started to post cute pics of her with Cloud on social media, and write about why I liked their chemistry and how cute they are together and what a great job Aerith does at breaking Cloud's walls and actually make him show some emotional reaction, things turned wild.
All sorts of people were trying to explain me how wrong I was with that view, that the real canon is actual Tifa and Cloud and Aerith is to be seen as friend but never as romance for Cloud et. Well those were the nice ones.
Then there the malicious ones, attacking my ship, Aerith's character and yes also me and my family in the worst kind of way.
So I startet to realise that posting a personal opinion about fictional characters is enough to trigger people at maximum nowadays.
i will of course never stop doing that because I don't see why i should bow down to some people who think they have leased the truth.
Still, it's truly strange times we are living in.
Die hard Cloti is based on the presumption that Cloud is basically autistic and isn't even a real character before making sense of his past, which belongs exclusively to his backstory with Tifa for some reason, (supposedly) as if his story with Shinra and Zack didn't happen, as if his newfound independence as a mercenary is nothing but a plot tool that's meant to peel off his boyhood dream of becoming a hero, reducing his purpose, the entirety of his motivation to just impressing and saving Tifa and appeasing Zack.
Cloud symbolizes confusion..hence his name, his personality and mind are clouded, but that doesn't mean he's an incomplete character without his own internal machinations. Jenova may be able to manipulate him, but his confabulations, which include a great complex of ego syntactic, objective attributions of real knowledge, of the world, of Shinra, his shared and personal hatred of Sephiroth, deep interpersonal insight, wisdom and understanding of the world around him, his absolutely unique ability to introject characters and events around him and allign them with his ultimate goal, which is defeating Sephiroth and punishing the people who hurt him and his friends/family. His edgy jokes, his cynical attitude which people often misattribute to his so called "false persona" rather than his fate. All of these qualities are Cloud..,Including his confidence, eminating sheerly from his physical strength, both Mako/Jenova induced and his naturally immense rage, induced prowerss as we have seen from his first encounter with Sephiroth.., also including his openness and candidness which peak from his outward appearance almost immediately, and yes his Jenova driven tendency towards cruelty and callousness, which lets admit...majorly sets him back in his relationship with BOTH women. This is the Cloud that Aerith loves even from her watery grave though...Her feelings for Zack and her feelings for Cloud are separate affairs from two different episodes in her life, and placing these two relationships on a logical axis is an integral part of her own character development, at the end of which...you know...she dies, which pretty much immortalizes Clerith on the one hand, and leaves Cloud with the best option that's, you know...alive.
The ships can't stop, lol...It's part of the franchise. Plus we learn more about the characters individually through their interactions with each other and the only thing that's really annoying about shipping is people who gaslight and infantilize the characters..., like "she/he is a 'poopy head' and doesn't know what they're doing...here's how things really go down". Aerith is all about Zack, even though she's basically just motivated by having as much fun as she can with the people she loves before drawing her last breath. Note, she went on her final date with Cloud...not Zack. Infact, she went on 2 dates with Cloud. One where she "pretended he was Zack" on the ferris wheel and clung to his arm like an overly attached cat, the other in her dream where she "pretended Zack was buying her gifts"... You'd almost think she's like Cloud, the great pretender...Imagining a cardboard cutout of Zack on Cloud's face. She said it herself, yes? "It wasn't your face or your clothes, just your body language".
Algorithm
But seriously, great video and tact used on calling out this toxic behavior. It's insane to me how this pops up in everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. Video games, movies, shows, books and even music. If you don't like what a creative is doing with THEIR series because it doesn't conform to the fantasy you created in your head.... sucks to suck. They made it, not you and they don't need your permission or follow how YOU changed THEIR story in your head so they can keep you happy. That's insanity. If you don't like it go ahead and feel your feels, but no reason to be combative about it and threaten people.
Good video. The convergence of the pandemic with what is literally a reintroduction of this battle was amazing timing. Certainly the latest trailer reaction is a new low. However I will say the devs have knowingly stirred the pot for years, through double-talk, retcons, ambiguity, etc. because they know this stuff sells. Perhaps to your point, I believe the "canon" does indeed contradict itself here and there through the compilation (more stirring). I fear there won't be ANY sense of "resolution" to come from this trilogy either because, well it sells. It could get even worse in the future because as more time goes on, the more likely new contributors will take the reigns and introduce their own head canon.
Good luck moderating the hornets nest you just kicked...
FFVII is clearly expanding and moving into uncharted waters, so we should all just sit back, and enjoy the ride. We can all return and revisit the final outcome of our collective fantasy once it has been properly revealed in its entirety.
All this chat about Clerith and Clouti, and not enough discussion about Zoud and Cloupiroth XD But in all seriousness, like most things parasocial relationships can go from being healthy and normal to toxic and dangerous when taken to the extreme. I also found the correlation with feelings of loneliness is apparently inconsistent in studies (which makes me interested if it is a study design thing or an actual inconsistency based on weak correlation).
It's not Clouphiroth, it's called OmniSlash
Lol, stay mad you bozo.
Generation X and Z created the shipping wars, bunch of bozo.
In more of a Clarrett person myself. It may be a little immature but as a kid when I learned that the clusters of characters like %&#@ were meant to represent curse words I fell in love with Barrett and Cid. I also think Cloud’s libido has been forever lost due to mako exposure.
The fact that this video even in comments is having a debate is crazy, no one could stop them to say "yeah, this side is wrong/my side is good" jajaja, well i hope they all catch the "dont harass the producers or any person that is involved in the game"
I'm a shipper as they say. I have always loved romance movies and novels. I think it was because I watched hallmark with my grandma as a child lol I like cloud & Tifa and Zack and Aerith I think that's the happiest for everyone. I don't care if people like other ships though. I liked Serah and Noel from 13 even though that's not "Canon" I think people should just let others like what they like. its fiction and not hurting anyone until you start pushing it and being mean or threatening. FF7 has so many plots and elements to enjoy.
Damn I hope there is no ‘secret’ canon, because if there is… it better stay that way due to the toxic nature of this shipping war.
I was with the OG since it was released (I was 16). Now truth be told Aerith was the assumed canon at the time because just about everyone got the Aerith date, it wasn’t widely known that you could choose until someone found out and posted a guide online, it was one of those “did you know?!” Secrets revealed kind of articles. That’s when everything changed and the shipping really took off. It was all in good fun at first and it was mutually respectful because choice meant there was no canon… but it got really bad as time went on, and it was mostly western audiences causing it.
Yes Tifa is the popular choice in North America and Aerith in eastern countries… but did they ask themselves why? It’s due to their design and personalities, they have the appearance and personalities that appeal to the audience in that culture. You could say it was reinforced in the intimate date scenes in Rebirth. Tifa, the American appealing character got a very American date conclusion (kiss). Aerith, got hand holding, which is very intimate in Japan (practically equivalent to kissing depending on who you ask)
What was meant as fun fan service spiraled out of control and we see this nonsense going on. Pick the one you want… why is that hard?
Love your video BTW… glad this topic is gaining traction.
I feel bad for Cloud X Tifa fans thinking that this ship has superior romance than Clerith in their headcanons, but in reality, Clerith is the main focus of the entire FF7 Rebirth storyline as the writer and developers intended, unimportant or not to the core of FF7R with the dating mechanic they'll implement in the game:(
The game really has no superior romance since a ship has never been confirmed. It's all just speculation.
@@countquackula8539 and it's all just their headcannons.
@walteranurantha5014 It's done on purpose. The developers know what their doing with the ships.
@countquackula8539 actually that's not true nojima confirmed cloud as aeriths lover and he writes everything ff7 compilation related, the outrage etc is just dumb tho
@beastofdarknesss5822 He also stated that Tifa was created for Cloud to be his perfect fit after the original game was developed. He also had a hand in the love scene under the highwind. Even though the ship was never confirmed, he considered Tifa also a potential romance, but my point is if Nojima wanted a confirmed ship in the games, movies, or books, then it would've happened. There would be no need for an optional date scene or exclusive scenes for the girl you favored more.
I just love how "You can hear the cry of the planet" is being used more and more in these kinds of videos, after all these years. Easily one of my favorite tracks from the original game.
The overreaction to this trailer was astounding. I mean I'm a big fan of Cloud and Tifa, as a romantic couple, but...come on people. Do you remember where the game is ending? Do you remember what happens at the place where the game ends? Did you listen to those song lyrics and what they VERY HEAVILY suggest? Did you see the iconic Aerith imagery, and the BLACK FEATHERS in the last shot of that trailer? Square is very clearly playing up the recreation of a certain scene from the original that is pivotal to Aerith's narrative arc, so OF COURSE Aerith would take center stage for Rebirth's story trailer! Given what's probably going to happen at the end, her being the focus of the story trailer is almost a requirement. Given the portion of the story that this game is set to cover, it just makes the most sense to focus on her especially. I imagine Tifa will have similar trailer made for her when part 3 comes out, because that was the part of the original story where she shined as a character. Tifa's time in the spotlight will come everybody. Just calm down, be patient, and stop harassing the developers. I mean...damn.
I personally favor tifa for the ideal woman for cloud. Now if I’m wrong I’m wrong. But I have fell down that rabbit hole before arguing on tifas behalf but mind you I do think aerith is great. And for me I go off common sense. So I think it’s us wanting to be proven right is the issue here. Cause if one did become cannon that fan base would feel like they won. And really we do need to let it go and let the writers cook. If they give us a answer to these shipping wars by the end then we just need to accept what they give us. Cause the game itself is way more important then which girl is actually ment for cloud.
Its Rei vs Asuka but 100% more toxic.
Shippers should be ashamed of their damn selves.
This again ... this reminds me of the guy who had issues with Nojima a few years back because he wanted Jessie to live in RE-Part 2
*you guys do not own the IP nor have the rights to demand the story to be tailor made to you personally either*
You are a brave person to comment on this part of the Fandom.
Look, I personally ship Cloud and Tifa, BUT my whole identity and definition of my self worth isn't wrapped up into it. He'll if the devs came out and said Cloud and Barret are the cannon couple, I'd be like " Cool!" And move on with my life.
The other thing is Cloud can have the hots for both, they can be in a poly relationship, he'll they could just be fwbs or just best friends.
The people who wrap yo thier whole identity in a relationship between 2 fake people to the point that you feel personally attacked when someone says something that is different to your thoughts then you need he'll. And I'm not saying that as a joke, you really need professional help. You are defining yourself with something that isn't real and feel anyone who doesn't agree means they are persoannly attacking you and only you when they have no idea who you are.
Please get help.
(I worte this before finishing the video xD you pretty much said the same thing!)
Aerith wont be alive for very long let the clerith shippers have this. Give aerith her screentime until its over. Im sure in part 3 tifa will be essential and there will be more cloti scenes since shes pretty much endgame the cloti shippers should chill.
Just wondering but what if aerith doesn’t die? What if aerith and cloud is the endgame? What would you do then? The story may very play out as you said that the devs just give you a lot of aerith bc she is going to die soon but that is nit certain yet. So why are you saying as if you own the game???
@@quangthaitruong7960 if aerith and cloud ended up together I would be fine with that personally but if we're going based of the original story than that's how it plays out and I believe it will be that way only it will play out differently and I will own the game when it comes out 😂😂😂 so we'll see than calm down it's not that serious.
NGL I was a bit meh when I learned that they're 'changing fate' but now I'm really hoping we can save Aerith somehow. Else it wouldn't make sense to go through all of that at the end of FF7R.
I guess Aerith will die and wake up in Zack world. and in the third game they will focus about (Cloud and Tifa) and (Aerith and Zack). because to be honest what's the good ending to Tifa and Zack if Cloud and Aerith end up together??@@quangthaitruong7960
@@AerionTargaryen24 Have you watched Advent Children my man? After the end of the OG cloud is a broken man, rarely coming home and barely giving tifa attention and she even calls him out for that. Idk if that is the successful ship it played out.
Now there seems to be mostly 3 camps of FFVII perspectives surrounding the romance or lack-thereof:
1. Cloud+Tifa
2. Cloud+Aerith
3. Complete denial of any romance
I think that the creators of the original game gave the players the option for any three of these outcomes represented by the Gold Saucer events which are driven by the choices the players make. So anyone who chooses one of the 3 are not wrong. Unfortunately, the more aggressive shippers out there don't even want to acknowledge this perspective. If there was no Remake to talk about, there would be no threat to the players' chosen path here, but with the Remake series, I can see the following possibilities playing out:
1. One of the 3 paths above will be canon to the Remake series, though not necessarily the original game.
2. There will be no definitive path and the options to the players will be the same as the original game.
3. None of the above, all of the above, or something else altogether.
This is how we felt watching Game of Thrones, if you ever watched it before.
Trailer was horrible to me. To much info. They should have left Zack out of the trailer since his story is new . Its going to be a good game cant wait
the Zack thing was the best part to me because it gives me hope that Zack and Aerith will meet again (my favorite characters in video games by the way)
I just hate the fact that the game will be in PS5 only for a while >_
On my first play through of Rebirth I'm going all Yuffie and Cloud for the date at the Gold Saucer.
its probably going to be hillarious with Yuffie doing all to get his attention and cloud not saying a word the whole date 😂
I listened to an interview with a polyamorous woman who said that she believes that a persona can have multiple soulmates, and I actually agree with this idea. So I'm totally on board with the notion of Tifa+Cloud+Aerith+Zack+Cissnei - and no, I'm not trying to be silly or perverted. And if that doesn't work, maybe an easier pill to swallow would be that these 5 individuals all have romantic connections, but not necessarily at the exact same point in time. When someone's romantic partner passes on or a parting has to happen for other reasons, maybe career related or other difference, it's not unnatural to fall in love again with someone else. But I prefer the polyamorous scenario!
Good video. I remember when Metroid Other M was released some fans got mad of how Samus was featured but most of the community tried to explain they weren't repulsed by the voice actress (who thought she was bullied).. just the writing decisions etc. Fandoms can bring out the worst. It's rough out there... I kinda hope in FF7R 3rd Game they'll make it multiple choice for who gets with Cloud just to dampen the passionate fans. We'll see.
I actually hope for the opposite. I would be fine with it if that’s what I plan at the start but if if they di so just to calm the angry fans, the story would definitely be bad. Because a writer should mever write a story in the way that he sees fit not because the fans tell them to.
@@quangthaitruong7960 Good point, if they clearly have a vision in mind they should carry through with that vision. I agree that it would probably make for a stronger narrative.
I have read other comments in this comment section and some make a great point; they mentioned Square keeps not being firm with who Cloud is drawn to. If Square made a decision and wasn't wishy-washy it might be easier on the fans. If they keep being vague with who he likes though, then I could see the 3rd game having multiple endings, player choice. I tend to enjoy games with that feature but it all depends if they see it working for the vision they have.
There’s a lot of FF7 arguments- not just the shipping wars.
The Cloud-is-Zack disagreement is just as insane and I’m guilty of overreacting.
I don’t know why that particular argument sends me in a fit of rage, (when the two characters are obviously nothing alike) yet it irritates me how often that gets brought-up.
I stepped into the rabbit hole recently, and a Zerith accused me of being disrespectful to Zack Fair- as if he’s a real dude and I should apologize to him.
So,… I think the mental illness aspect doesn’t just apply to Cloud, but to some of the fans as well.
I am a big fan of Nojima who is an intriguing writer. It is a shame that some unhinged people take this to a new level. I’ve heard Nomura has also been threatened.
One would think that if the developers are reacting to the threats, they would finally put an end to the shipping wars?
It is out of control and it’s been 26 years and counting.
Hopefully, that’s what they’re preparing fans for with the new trailer.
Hardcore Zack fans are the worst - they just love to hate Cloud because Zack isn't the main protagonist of FF7/R, and the ending of FF7 Remake only fuelled this hatred more! As for the shipping wars - does anyone consider Cloud's feelings in all of this? To most Clerith's and Cloti's, Cloud is just an accessory, a toy boy to bolster their importance in the game. People don't give a shit for Cloud and that's the worst thing for me. Cloud's a truly great protagonist with an amazing backstory and character arc. FF7/R is a great game that is unfortunately being reduced by self-insert crazies!!! Why can't we just enjoy the game as the developers intended!
@@cloudstruck2785 Cloud killed Sephiroth as an infantryman, so yes- he is a badass character.
Cloud is not Zack. I hear that spewing from Zack fans. (It is confirmed in TMtTtP that Cloud is Cloud.)
As far as Cloud’s feelings, his POV is rarely revealed, other than in the Hollow lyrics.
The Hollow song is from Cloud’s perspective. Nojima wrote a "ballad for a man who has lost something important to him." That song is obviously NOT ABOUT ZACK. Zack never healed Cloud- Aerith did in AC.
Cloud is a fictional character after all.
With me being a POS Clerith fan for 26 years, I have taken his feelings into consideration.
He’s going up the Clocktower with Aerith since I control him.
I look forward to enjoying the game as the Developers intended.
Trouble is in this fandom the minority always have the loudest voices. I can't tell you how many Cloud appreciation streams I've seen on here where the Zack hardcore fans have trolled! Why is there a need to constantly put a character down just to make theirs better. I suppose when you are a popular character as Cloud actually is, you automatically have a target on your back for the haters and trolls. I agree with you - I want to enjoy this game as the developers intended and having read many interviews, I I have faith in them. .@@Locustskies
I haaaaate that misinterpretion so much.
Not even because I ship Clerith because I am a Cloud fan first and foremost. I cannot stand Zack fans inserting him into anything and everything.
I'm not a fan of Zack or CC. It feels like his hardcore fans just want to replace Cloud with Zack as the main character and I am over it.
@@nohemi6899 I don’t hate Zack. He did rescue Cloud from Hojo and was a good friend to him.
But for those of us that played OG when it first came out- there was no Crisis Core. Zack was just an NPC with a small part at the end of FF7.
I played CCR quite a few times recently. The story is a bit strange. Ugh, and Genesis…
I actually liked Sephiroth’s character until he went off the deep-end.
I felt nothing for Zack and Aerith’s relationship. She’s so young and uninvolved. Zack is really hyper and kind of annoying at points in the game- putting SOLDIER first.
Whenever they hung around each other, I got restless, especially building a flower wagon 101- make it stop!
What a showy guy Zack is when he bursts into Aerith’s church saying, “I’m back!” 🤣
Looks like she ended-up seeing the sky with Cloud instead.
“Gotta move forward, not back!”
Rebirth should be very interesting!
I predict Zack will sacrifice himself to save Aerith in the finale although we won’t know until another four years, five or take.
His SOLDIER dream was to be a hero after all. Why else is he given a second chance?
I personally fall into one of the two shippers, the two being Cloti and Clerith (I hate these names lol), but I honestly don't care what direction the Remake series goes, I'm still going to enjoy these games regardless. For example:
Final Fantasy X is probably my all time favorite video game ever made, but I'm not crazy about Tida+Yuna as a romance. I also despise the idea of Lulu and Wakka getting together, but it still happened. FFX gives the player, as Tidus, the option to pursue flirtations with either Rikku or Lulu and I chose Lulu on every play through except one just to see what the alternate scenes would be. The canon is Tidus+Yuna and Lulu+Wakka, but the game is still absolutely beautiful and I don't see a definitive romance arc in FFVII being any different.
Final Fantasy VIII features Squall+Rinoa as a central theme to the story and, similarly to FFX, I don't care at all for this romance. I would have preferred to see Squall with Quistis by far or even Selphie or Ellone. Having said that, I still love the game and I do really like the Sorceress/Knight theme play out with Squall and Rinoa.
I agree with you, yet I find the whole thing much more disturbing per-say …my main issue with the Clarith thing isn’t him hooking up with Tifa or not. It’s the fact everyone wants Cloud to love a dead person for the rest of his life. He is 21 years old and he is wanted by majority of the fans to suffer by being in love with someone he knew less than a month until he dies….he has on average 60 more years of life, and everyone wants him to only love Aerith untill they reunite….that’s so mentally wrong and disturbing to me they want someone to suffer a lifetime of guilt and agony….what is seriously wrong with you people? Stop trying to ship someone who is dead with someone who is still alive. Cloud doesn’t deserve that kind of punishment….NO ONE DOES. Move on and let Cloud do the same.
I’d rather Cloud get shipped with Nanaki or Cait Sith….let the dead rest and stop shipping necrophilia….
As a Clerith, I'm not saying Cloud can't move on from Aerith like Aerith moves on from Zack.
It's called a tragic love story for a reason. What I believe is Cloud did indeed love Aerith.
That's literally it, but many CloTi like to deny it.
Like in Titanic, Rose moved on but still held Jack in her heart. In AC, Aerith lives on in Cloud, watching over him from the Lifestream and would be happy seeing him move forward.
It’s better to grieve a passed loved one, than rebound with a shameless people-pleasing lier, who has contributed to Cloud’s mental breakdown more than Sephiroth himself.
I believe 100% that it's Terra Branford from FF6 and I do not say this lightly.
I made a page on both Twitter then Tumblr (still updated) during 2019/2020 showing the evidence about this, so I know what the shipping fandom is like. I was originally following both sides until something happened during the beginning of 2020 when I decided to remove all direct contact with Clerith and Cloti...this is when I began realizing the intricacies of this "pairing" nobody takes seriously (thanks to all Dissidia games, WoFF, as well as the compilation, FF6, and other FF games (notably FF8 and FF13) and with the help of a small group.
I am sad that I feel like a failure at informing others about what will happen in FF7R, but I don't know who else would have done it. If the shipping fandom was more "acceptable", it may have been easier. At least lot's of people will be surprised.
You've really opened a can of worms posting a bout this but fair play it needed to be said..honestly the creators couldn't have given the player more freedom to support their ship with the dating macanics and there still not happy
It's funny. I never played the original FF7 really. Tried to in more recent years but never got past the Gold Saucer. The game has been spoiled for me due to just social osmosis at this point but for YEARS the only thing I knew about the game was the Tifa/Aerith ship debacle despite all of the other heavy topics the game tries to touch on. I just figured the game was romance focused like FF8 was! For years!
Try finishing the game, there's a lot of side quests and hidden scenes that, well, frankly de-mystify later installments' interpretation of events (plus they're fun to play). There are big reveals (which sounds like you may already know though) and Bugenhagen comes back some more, so you can't go wrong with that.
@@dalegleneagles5072 *Spoiler warning for the earlier commenter, ig it's not anything important but still*
Visiting Cosmo Canyon with Red after Bugenhagen dies is such a good little character moment. Also Red's "I just grew a little, that's what happened" after the first visit. He's truly best rat-dog
What about Cluffy?. Pretty sure yuffie stoled clouds heart along with all his materias spheres, of course lol
@@zamaskowany12 you are correct but I meant that as a joke lol not as a serious thing. Personally I am on team aerith.
Well, she is the only one who kissed Cloud in the OG. I don't know if Rebirth will keep it that way.
My friend the devs already tried to tell or hint us with more than just the OG Game, they published books(Traces Of Two Pasts and On A Way To A Smile which is a pre Advent Children book and Advent Children movie itself) and people just won't listen or won't even pay attention, the recent trialer which shows something about Cloud and Aerith, i see it as an act of "oh well if they won't listen to us we might as well profit from the situation" which is totally understandable, let me tell you something i am a Cloti but i love Aerith she's one of my top 3, but i think this shipping war is stupid and those who participate in it are 6 years old(i don't care about their real age) i'll end this comment by say nice video my man.
Finally someone speaking logically about this. Great video josephyr thanks for taking the time! Subscribed.
Story wise I've always wondered if Zack's memories had a lot to do with why Cloud felt strongly about Aerith. In the story Cloud really didn't know Aerith for that long (maybe a month or so from beginning to end?).
That’s what love at first sight does to people! I’ve experienced it once, and I’ve never felt a stronger connection to someone else before ever.
i don't really like the whole "cloud only likes aerith bc he think he's zack/has zack's memories" bc it leads to misinterpretation of the characters and their actions and also downplays their relationships and interactions. i think even if you want to believe that it's just undeniable that aerith and cloud share a connection (whether you think it's platonic or romantic), despite not knowing each other for long. i think the remake did a really good job at portraying how their personalities bounce off each other and showcased that they have great chemistry together. i think aerith's personality plays a big part in all of it bc she kind of breaks down his walls and by spending time with her he begins to get a bit more relaxed. i like how both tifa and aerith play a huge role on cloud's character and both help him in different ways.
I never had that interpretation. Mainly because on the airship Cloud says he remembered the stories his friend Zack told him and used that as the basis of his lies. The master of his own illusionary world. Can't wait for Rebirth to clear that up.
No it doesn't really. Cloud copied Zack's mannerism. He did not have his memories as far as I rmbr.
You can click with someone on the first day if you're compatible. And from Cait Sith prediction, Cloud and Aerith are very compatible with each other.
If Cloud's memories were Zack's then why does he not think about what happened to Cessnei? He would've recognized Aerith right away and the Turks too.
I think what really needs to stop aside from the shipping nonsense is the toxic fans who can’t accept that many fans don’t like Remake for very valid reasons.
I've never cried over any media. tv film or game. So the shippers are definitely a mystery to me. Fandoms are places where weirdness is a mass collective and thus nobody within can see how weird they are.
So many fans are toxic as hell. All you have to do is say "I don't like this" and they respond as though you're being aggressively disrespectful. They're quick to interpret any criticism of the thing they love as an attack. I don't even know how many times someone has implied I'm not a "real fan" or I "don't get it" when I dislike something, despite the fact that whether something is good or bad is totally subjective.
Somehow I've managed to miss this discourse but sending hate to anyone is disgusting.
I don't really mind who Cloud ends up with as I like both female leads. Although I would quite happily be with Tifa to stop the whole argument....or have Tifa and Aerith together instead! My little lesbian heart would love that! 😁🏳️🌈
Shippers are just infuriating. I remember the Gundam community gatekeeping them shippers out at some point in time. Cause it got so bad.
Tifa fan myself, whatever happens happens... I feel we are highly KH spaghetti loop shenanigans beyond the original in this saga.
I just wanna see more of Tifa and Aerith Having fun together and being badass together and Yuffie too
Im sick of the shipping war ruining these amazing well written characters.
Tifa is my comfort character and i like Cloud and Tifa’s dynamic but I don’t see any of the characters in the canon story or both ships even romantic or sexual i just see them all as a big family who truly love and comfort each other and that is good enough for me.
I don’t mind Aerith and Cloud having a thing but i still don’t believe the main story focuses on the romance specifically its more like Cloud becoming more vulnerable and all the characters facing their struggles while having to save everyone else and the planet, Having to defeat Jenova/Sephiroth, face traumas and overcoming their sins and learning to live on.
Why does everything have to be romance or sexual bruh
Mcdonalds did not! That is so iconic
At this point it’s all pointless. The foundation of the story and characters in this sequel, not remake has already been ruined with terrible ideas and decisions. So it’s only going to get worse. all they had to do was do a REMAKE with improved graphics, battle system and voice acting and leave the narrative exactly how it was. But they couldn’t even do that.
Not the first love triangle in final fantasy but nobody else talks about the love triangle in ff4 (rosa x kain x cecil) or ff12 ( Balthier x Fran x Ashe) I'm pretty sure ff6 has a love triangle to I'm not sure if it has to do with (terra x edgar x shadow).
Yeesh people act like Tifa and Aerith wouldn’t be down to share Cloud and each other.
In all seriousness, this kind of discourse is part of why I don’t spend too much time in online spaces extensively these days. Can’t wait for Rebirth and all of the crazy sh*t that it’ll bring to the table.