What is the dispute about? The letter "J" denotes style and direction, not country of origin. Like, for example, Greco-Roman wrestling. A wrestler doesn’t have to be born in Greece, right?
jrpg is a genre name that only carries the j cause of the genres country of origin and the fact that at one time rpg's would have a distinct different feeling depending on where they came from . As the industry matured and talent both grew up with games and started to work outside of their own countries more and more the design philosophies of both started to appear in games from other countries then where those designs styles originated. that's why stuff like sea of stars can do the jrpg playbook without being in japan , why ffvii rebirth can do the Ubisoft playbook etc. as gaming became more borderless and creators became more aware of each others work it spawned creations that are inspired by others across the pond . in general Rpg mechanics are in every game, making games that traditionally not be considered one have the title rpg in them now but thats why over the years we came up with new genres. but for the fun of it here's what i think. Sea of Stars is a JRPG Stranger in paradise is a SoulsLike Undertale is a JRPG Bloodborne is a SoulsLike Cross Code is a Action RPG Nier Automata is a Action RPG South Park is a Jrpg Pokemon Scarlet is a JRPG Honkai Starrail is a JRPG Final Fantasy xiv is a MMORPG (or a visual novel when you get to Dawntrail) once again we are at a point where the creatives of the world are just creative and the J in JRPG is more legacy then actually meaning this style of game is only Japanese
Anyone can make an Anime, turn/action based role playing game. Asian devs knows. What makes literal JRPGs different from Jrpg "inspired" games is if it's a domestic product. The identity of Japanese role playing games inclines objectively as domestic 1st, after which the categorical "style" and gameplay comes second. Because it's just a subgenre within Japanese games. There are many Jrpg inspired titles, nothing wrong calling it as that. Mostly are pixel-art turn-based indies. Westerners can make their own personal consensus tho.
The one that was made by the japanese developer 😁. For me it's got nothing to do with art style but today we are seeing more and more western devs making games deeply inspired by classic jrpgs so it's starting to blur the lines. Everything should just be generalised as an RPG by this point 😅
I still think calling everything an RPG is so vague that you couldn't possibly cover everything that way if we go by the 'I like RPGs' or 'I would recommend this game to someone who likes RPGs' because it then becomes so broad it's almost worthless calling it anything beyond 'a video game'. So I think that stronger distinction is good to have, it's just the way the lexicon has evolved that makes it an interesting discussion, I find!
Yeah true. I'd probably just use terms like turn based, action based, tactical, soulslike rpg etc to sub categorise them. RPGs are so broad now haha. As long as they have a focus on story, characters, stats, and generally lengthy it's good for me. 😁
@@Joesephyr right, better distinctions. Like Jrpgs and Jrpg "inspired" games. Because Japanese role playing games identity is objectively more inclined with actual Japanese domestic product first, over the "style" (anime/pixel art, turn based, rpg) that any dev can copy that comes second.
I've long considered the J in JRPG to be "Japanese" in the style sense of things, not literally from Japan. Like... let's say French Bread. I most certainly don't expect the loaf I see on the store shelf to be literally from France, but I have an idea of what I'm getting. As for the games in the end being JRPGs or not, gut feeling: 1: Maybe? Haven't played myself 2: Absolutely not 3: Probably wouldn't call it that myself, but I get the comparison and might recommend to a JRPG fan. 4: Nope, not even close. 5: Uh, kinda, yeah sure. 6: Nope 7: Yes 8: ... I don't want to call it a JRPG, but it kinda is. 9: I personally think the Gacha overrules any other genre consideration here, and I still play it myself. 10: No
This is a wonderful conversation and one that has been bothering me for some time as well. It's definitely an outdated term, much like Sci-Fi. But when someone says JRPG, the key hallmarks I look for are heavy emphasis on the narrative (doesn't necessarily have to be linear, see SaGa and Mana) and fairly structured, almost formulaic combat (though there are notable exceptions)
I find that the term JRPG is one of those things that people have such a hard time describing these days, it falls into the "I know it when I see it" and not a well defined set of criteria. Soulslike is another that I find people mistake all the time as just needing to have hard combat that involves dodging. As for what is a JRPG from your 10 games I would say Sea of Stars, Undertale, South Park, Pokemon and Honkai are all JRPGs, the rest are of different genres even though they are all RPGs.
This whole thing is pretty complicated. A huge chunk of Japanese-style RPG developers are still very much in the ballpark of Japan. But they are so very small in terms of size (some are like, one person) that nobody would really know that. Also, the fact that Sony and Square have so heavily shifted their target demographic to being Americans, this is why so many RPGs, particularly on the Playstation, are that American style Action-RPG or are even just full on action games instead. They aren't appealing to the Japanese market at all. And we've actually got a bunch of people who are not in Japan, making RPGs that DO appeal to the Japanese market. So I think JRPG should stay as a term, even if it is getting a bit confusing. It IS very much the style that dictates what it is. To address the one game that might cause confusion - no, FF14 isn't a JRPG. It's a MMORPG, a genre whose history goes back to the dawn of the MUD (Multi-User-Dungeon), back in 1977 with Zork. The JRPG (at least in the structure we're familiar with - not just being 'an RPG made in Japan') did not surface until 1986 with Dragon Quest.
@@john_7000 But it doesn't have any of the mechanics, structurally it's more like a western RPG. If a JRPG was just about its story, then there'd be a lot of stuff that was never developed in Japan that would also be JRPGs (as well as plenty of games that aren't even RPGs).
I think there is certainly a huge disconnect between the way the term JRPG has been used by the east and the west to describe the genre as a whole. The label JRPG is probably antiquated and do for the dustbin, but the genre, I think, is alive and well, and could use a better name if anything. Maybe we can stop using the term JRPG and just fully transition over to Turn-based RPG, since at least in the west, that is what is meant by the term. When it comes to the eastern idea of JRPG, at least Japanese people wouldn't want the idea of what they offer to the genre to be based in the combat style, since like anime, it is more about the aesthetic and values the games espouse.
@@Joesephyr it’s just a combination of ingredients, spices and cooking techniques. RPGs and JRPGs are a great examples of how the same ingredients with different spices makes a different dish.
To me the term jrpg evokes a certain art style. But let's be real, the term has since evolved with people using it however they see fit. And I'm okay with that
CRPG is another one, “computer” rpg sounds so vague but I guess it’s to denote those sorta isometric games with tabletop rpg rules. Gacha games not being called “krpgs” is interesting lol. 9:40 1. Looks like one. 2. Dunno what that is. 3. Nah. 4. Kinda. 5. Not sure what that is. 6. Haven’t played it yet. 7. Definitely. 8. I think so. 9. Gacha game 10. Yes, thanks to the MSQ.
the J just needs to get dropped altogether. Not sure why that distinction was ever made. When I was a kid we just called them RPGs regardless of where they were made.
No it shouldn't because if I ask someone if they like jrpgs most people know exactly what I mean, whereas if we use a more vague term such as just rpg then I have to explain myself more.
Wizardry is the OG western RPG, but the newer games in the franchise are now made in Japan. Did they suddenly become JRPGs? No. This example kind of ends the conversation imo.
Well, it doesn't, because it's a massively long-running discussion, more about the use of language than the actual games themselves, and hearing it from people who make the games themselves at massively opposing sides makes for a much more nuanced discussion than you're suggesting :)
lol anyone can make an Anime/pixel art, turn based, role playing game. What makes a literal JRPG different from Jrpg "inspired" game is if it's domestic. Hol up, I'm done, some mf in the comments calls some chinese gacha tr∆sh a JRPG. 😆🤣😂
What is the dispute about? The letter "J" denotes style and direction, not country of origin. Like, for example, Greco-Roman wrestling. A wrestler doesn’t have to be born in Greece, right?
jrpg is a genre name that only carries the j cause of the genres country of origin and the fact that at one time rpg's would have a distinct different feeling depending on where they came from .
As the industry matured and talent both grew up with games and started to work outside of their own countries more and more the design philosophies of both started to appear in games from other countries then where those designs styles originated. that's why stuff like sea of stars can do the jrpg playbook without being in japan , why ffvii rebirth can do the Ubisoft playbook etc. as gaming became more borderless and creators became more aware of each others work it spawned creations that are inspired by others across the pond .
in general Rpg mechanics are in every game, making games that traditionally not be considered one have the title rpg in them now but thats why over the years we came up with new genres. but for the fun of it here's what i think.
Sea of Stars is a JRPG
Stranger in paradise is a SoulsLike
Undertale is a JRPG
Bloodborne is a SoulsLike
Cross Code is a Action RPG
Nier Automata is a Action RPG
South Park is a Jrpg
Pokemon Scarlet is a JRPG
Honkai Starrail is a JRPG
Final Fantasy xiv is a MMORPG (or a visual novel when you get to Dawntrail)
once again we are at a point where the creatives of the world are just creative and the J in JRPG is more legacy then actually meaning this style of game is only Japanese
Anyone can make an Anime, turn/action based role playing game. Asian devs knows. What makes literal JRPGs different from Jrpg "inspired" games is if it's a domestic product.
The identity of Japanese role playing games inclines objectively as domestic 1st, after which the categorical "style" and gameplay comes second. Because it's just a subgenre within Japanese games.
There are many Jrpg inspired titles, nothing wrong calling it as that. Mostly are pixel-art turn-based indies.
Westerners can make their own personal consensus tho.
The one that was made by the japanese developer 😁. For me it's got nothing to do with art style but today we are seeing more and more western devs making games deeply inspired by classic jrpgs so it's starting to blur the lines. Everything should just be generalised as an RPG by this point 😅
I still think calling everything an RPG is so vague that you couldn't possibly cover everything that way if we go by the 'I like RPGs' or 'I would recommend this game to someone who likes RPGs' because it then becomes so broad it's almost worthless calling it anything beyond 'a video game'. So I think that stronger distinction is good to have, it's just the way the lexicon has evolved that makes it an interesting discussion, I find!
Yeah true. I'd probably just use terms like turn based, action based, tactical, soulslike rpg etc to sub categorise them. RPGs are so broad now haha. As long as they have a focus on story, characters, stats, and generally lengthy it's good for me. 😁
@@Joesephyr right, better distinctions. Like Jrpgs and Jrpg "inspired" games. Because Japanese role playing games identity is objectively more inclined with actual Japanese domestic product first, over the "style" (anime/pixel art, turn based, rpg) that any dev can copy that comes second.
I've long considered the J in JRPG to be "Japanese" in the style sense of things, not literally from Japan. Like... let's say French Bread. I most certainly don't expect the loaf I see on the store shelf to be literally from France, but I have an idea of what I'm getting.
As for the games in the end being JRPGs or not, gut feeling:
1: Maybe? Haven't played myself
2: Absolutely not
3: Probably wouldn't call it that myself, but I get the comparison and might recommend to a JRPG fan.
4: Nope, not even close.
5: Uh, kinda, yeah sure.
6: Nope
7: Yes
8: ... I don't want to call it a JRPG, but it kinda is.
9: I personally think the Gacha overrules any other genre consideration here, and I still play it myself.
10: No
Agreed; FF14 is an MMORPG not a JRPG in style, despite being both J and an RPG
Does make one stop and ponder things, seeing videos like this. Something to make me think, and that's a good thing.
This is a wonderful conversation and one that has been bothering me for some time as well.
It's definitely an outdated term, much like Sci-Fi. But when someone says JRPG, the key hallmarks I look for are heavy emphasis on the narrative (doesn't necessarily have to be linear, see SaGa and Mana) and fairly structured, almost formulaic combat (though there are notable exceptions)
I liken the term JRPG to MetroidVania or Roguelike; it's a reference to the origin of the genre but doesn't mean it has to be one of those franchises
JRPGs are a style of game, not dependent on Location.
I find that the term JRPG is one of those things that people have such a hard time describing these days, it falls into the "I know it when I see it" and not a well defined set of criteria. Soulslike is another that I find people mistake all the time as just needing to have hard combat that involves dodging. As for what is a JRPG from your 10 games I would say Sea of Stars, Undertale, South Park, Pokemon and Honkai are all JRPGs, the rest are of different genres even though they are all RPGs.
Hate when a developer that isnt Japanese call his game JRPG. They are killing the genre, and making find a original Japanese RPG harder!
This whole thing is pretty complicated. A huge chunk of Japanese-style RPG developers are still very much in the ballpark of Japan. But they are so very small in terms of size (some are like, one person) that nobody would really know that. Also, the fact that Sony and Square have so heavily shifted their target demographic to being Americans, this is why so many RPGs, particularly on the Playstation, are that American style Action-RPG or are even just full on action games instead. They aren't appealing to the Japanese market at all. And we've actually got a bunch of people who are not in Japan, making RPGs that DO appeal to the Japanese market. So I think JRPG should stay as a term, even if it is getting a bit confusing. It IS very much the style that dictates what it is.
To address the one game that might cause confusion - no, FF14 isn't a JRPG. It's a MMORPG, a genre whose history goes back to the dawn of the MUD (Multi-User-Dungeon), back in 1977 with Zork. The JRPG (at least in the structure we're familiar with - not just being 'an RPG made in Japan') did not surface until 1986 with Dragon Quest.
Ff14 is a jrpg if u played it literally have everything u know about jrpg from the story.
@@john_7000 But it doesn't have any of the mechanics, structurally it's more like a western RPG. If a JRPG was just about its story, then there'd be a lot of stuff that was never developed in Japan that would also be JRPGs (as well as plenty of games that aren't even RPGs).
I think there is certainly a huge disconnect between the way the term JRPG has been used by the east and the west to describe the genre as a whole. The label JRPG is probably antiquated and do for the dustbin, but the genre, I think, is alive and well, and could use a better name if anything. Maybe we can stop using the term JRPG and just fully transition over to Turn-based RPG, since at least in the west, that is what is meant by the term. When it comes to the eastern idea of JRPG, at least Japanese people wouldn't want the idea of what they offer to the genre to be based in the combat style, since like anime, it is more about the aesthetic and values the games espouse.
You don’t have to be Mexican or in Mexico to make Mexican food. Games are the same way.
LOVE this analogy!
@@Joesephyr it’s just a combination of ingredients, spices and cooking techniques. RPGs and JRPGs are a great examples of how the same ingredients with different spices makes a different dish.
To me the term jrpg evokes a certain art style. But let's be real, the term has since evolved with people using it however they see fit. And I'm okay with that
I also think it's great that it has multiple meanings... I just got wound up when people challenged mine XD
Have you played Steven universe save the light?
Has become kind of a nonsense term to me that has still come to define a general look of a game, much like metroidvania.
CRPG is another one, “computer” rpg sounds so vague but I guess it’s to denote those sorta isometric games with tabletop rpg rules. Gacha games not being called “krpgs” is interesting lol.
9:40
1. Looks like one.
2. Dunno what that is.
3. Nah.
4. Kinda.
5. Not sure what that is.
6. Haven’t played it yet.
7. Definitely.
8. I think so.
9. Gacha game
10. Yes, thanks to the MSQ.
そもそも日本ではRPG＝JRPGですよ、Jは付けないよ。
the J just needs to get dropped altogether. Not sure why that distinction was ever made. When I was a kid we just called them RPGs regardless of where they were made.
No it shouldn't because if I ask someone if they like jrpgs most people know exactly what I mean, whereas if we use a more vague term such as just rpg then I have to explain myself more.
All the games you mentioned in the are rpgs imo but different kinds of rpgs
Wizardry is the OG western RPG, but the newer games in the franchise are now made in Japan. Did they suddenly become JRPGs? No. This example kind of ends the conversation imo.
Well, it doesn't, because it's a massively long-running discussion, more about the use of language than the actual games themselves, and hearing it from people who make the games themselves at massively opposing sides makes for a much more nuanced discussion than you're suggesting :)
:D
lol anyone can make an Anime/pixel art, turn based, role playing game. What makes a literal JRPG different from Jrpg "inspired" game is if it's domestic. Hol up, I'm done, some mf in the comments calls some chinese gacha tr∆sh a JRPG. 😆🤣😂