The Campbells were heros. they spent tons of their own money, time and life. chasing this. they were invite to and attended a hearing in DC (covering the plane ticket from NZ to DC themselves) they sat through the bs hearing. at the end, the Chair said "feel free to take 'what ever documents you need'" refering to the printed press release. so the campbells. loaded 6 boxes of NTSB evidence. NTSB tried to charge them with theft. but they had it recorded, that they were told "take what ever you want". NTSB offered to drop the issue if the evidence was returned. Campbells did. AFTER they copied everything in all 6 boxes. PROVING NTSB lax protocol and partial responsibility for the accident.
So... the national transportation SAFETY board deviated from their mandated mission of overseeing transportation SAFETY to interfere with legal action that would likely have encouraged transportation SAFETY. Corporate/regulatory revolving doors serve greed over safety.
The dedication and determination of Mr and Mrs Campbell was extraordinary. They pursued all parties ferociously. Their efforts in my view saved many more lives. All while experiencing the terrible grief of the loss of their son. They deserve our thanks . Mr Campbell Senior received an award from the New Zealand government for his efforts. Rightly so.
I mean, were you or your parents alive to vote for politicians that would also hold companies acxountable? Like it is okay to thank them but it could have been easier if the people voted in were also forcing the company to be accountable.
I've worked that plane many times later. I know many of the crew. They were so deafened by the decompression and the phones weren't working; they all just thought they'd crash in the sea until suddenly runway lights and knew they might survive after all. It was very traumatic for all concerned
DC-10 also had another crash before it’s gremlins got sorted… flying before the 90s was scary, and after 911 it was a pain in the ass and has been every since but hey at least it is far safer these days right Boeing? Lol
@@quasarsavage this reminds me of the 737 MAX flaws to do with MCAS that resulted in 2 fatal crashes. Boeing blames someone else, and the FAA seemingly overlooks design issues or doesn’t impose directives to fix them quickly.
I saw a doc on this before. The Campbells got the documents by stealing them basically. They could smell the BS coming from the FAA trying to blame the ground crew. So during a break the room was empty…all the documents were still in the room…the gathered all the boxes the could and walked right out the door as fast as they could. Smartest move they ever did.
I saw that doc. All those trips they made around America to manufacturers and labs. They spent both time and money and I'm glad they had that money. There work and refusal to give up couldn't save their sons but I'm sured they saved a lot of others. They didn't let it get buried.
Mayday (🇨🇦) or Air Crash Investigation (🌏 elsewhere) because I seen it too "Unlocking Disaster", the season-one (2003) and first episode of the long-running Canadian TV series Mayday[8] (called Air Emergency and Air Disasters in the U.S. and Air Crash Investigation in the UK and elsewhere around the world), which included interviews with survivors and a dramatization of the accident. The flight was also included in a Mayday season-six (2007) Science of Disaster special titled "Ripped Apart"."
Lee Campbell was actually the one that went through the engine. His parents preferred this in a macabre way that at least he died instantly instead of falling thousands of feet.
Reminds me of Nikki Lauder and his 767 that the trust reversers ripped the wings off. Boeing said No he said BS and being a billionaire he paid for an investigation to prove Boeing wrong.
This is where the monea went. It is such a thing where you invest and hope you will never need it. Theoretically someone off the street could relatively easy learn how to take off a 747 and correctly programming the autopilot. That is not really where the magic happens ;)
@@nadineblachetta3202 I'm not sure they could dear. It takes years to learn how to be a pilot his expertise and experience managed to make him save more than your so called average joe
I remember when this happened. The pilot was to be retired because of his age, although he was probably the most qualified pilot available, and it was likely because of his experience that more people didn't lose their lives.
@@insertgenericusernamehere2402 It's not as hard as you think. Pilots get paid what they do not for the mundane trips through the sky as a glorified bus driver, but for situations exactly like this one. Emergencies are where they earn their paychecks. Having that experienced and expert pilot at the yolk probably saved the rest of the passenger's lives.
I remember seeing the news article about this particular tragedy in the New Zealand Herald, and being deeply affected by it. Later I saw a documentary about the heroic efforts of the Campbells to obtain justice for the loss of their beloved son Lee, and also the other 8 passengers who lost their lives, and actually managing to successfully make the authorities involved sit up and take notice, after a huge battle. I have never forgotten that.
12:48 The NTSB is in no way tasked with regulating anyone. Their task is strictly to investigate accidents and incidents, and then pass along recommendations to the relevant agencies; in this* case, the FAA...which , yes, absolutely has had (and continues to have) what many would argue is a too-cozy relationship with aircraft manufacturers and airlines.
I actually have significantly less trust in american carriers because of this. If anything, i'd much prefer to fly in an airbus by a carrier with no national connections to the manufacturers. All the derision the a380 gets, or the a350, its hard to argue against 0 fatalities.
@@nanonano2595 Airbus aircraft may seem more modern and comfortable but when it comes to safety, that is an entirely different story. I am aircrew for a major airline were we operate both Boeing and Airbus fleets. I have NO trust in Airbus aircraft due to their safety issues, to the degree I don't bid for trips operated by those types, I stick to Boeing routes even if they are less popular trips/destinations. Give me a Boeing any day, I have endless confidence in those aircraft, I have had a few close experiences that would have had an entirely less favourable outcome had they occurred on a Airbus aircraft. If the event discussed in this video had have occurred on an Airbus airframe, the ruptured fuselage would likely have continued to peel back and weaken its structural integrity to total failure, and all would have perished as it broke up and fell into the Pacific Ocean. If you are interested, here are just a handful of examples and a little bit of history too. I hope you enjoy and learn something from it. Please know that I write this with a very polite tone and not a disrespectful or arrogant challenge to your comment. It is hard to discern sometimes when only reading and not hearing the tone of voice. Airbuses are extremely flimsy, on the odd occasion I'm seated at the very back doors on an A330, when looking up the cabin during turbulence you only need to observe the continuous long profile or line of overhead lockers to notice how very much the fuselage twists and turns. That doesn't happen on B747s, B767s, B777s. There is some flexing, enough for the airframe to be forgiving and have the strength to withstand the forces of flight loading. Airbuses really are just junk. As evidence look how many OLD 1960/70s era B707s, B727s B747s still in reliable service, sadly albeit cargo operators now, they are just do extremely well built, providing they are well maintained they can tolerate many many more cycles. These are the dynamics associated with the forces encountered with each takeoff, fuselage pressurisation and landing. In contrast there are almost zero OLD mid 1970s era Airbus aircraft such as A300s or A310s still fulfilling these roles, because they are just not built as strongly, you could forget ever seeing old A320/19/21s and 330/40s operating decades after they were built, they're flimsier still. Having said that, I would sooner fly on an old A300 or A310 than their contemporary counterparts if I had to choose. The Airbus automation technology (computerisation) since the A320s were developed in the early 1980s is a death trap! The flight laws the aircraft operate with take much of the control AWAY from the flight crew. The automation (computers) can often take pilots into some dangerous corners during a variety of control related emergencies, then without warning shut down consequently causing confusion, or exacerbating any existing confusion. The resulting sudden escalation of the crew's already high workload can take them 'over the edge'. The side sticks they use in place of yokes, the pilot centrally positioned 'steering' control, are also a very dangerous design. Boeing, and similar technology, pilots fly their aircraft and have full authority of all control systems, conversely Airbus pilots are flown by their aircraft and hold much less authority of its respective control systems. There have been a number of incidents whereby the crew have attempted to exercise a go-around/missed approach during the final stages of landing due to instability/weather etc. A Boeing or similar will respond to the crew's inputs and fly away under the crew's control, the Airbuses have ignored the crew inputs and continued to land. There is a famous video clip of a Lufthansa A320 landing at Hamburg with strong wind and crosswind gusts. They had to fight with their aircraft desperately to command a go-around, entirely due to the aircraft's automation overriding the crew and taking away their authority. Other events, not caught on camera, have led to worse outcomes. When the A320 was first introduced there was a crash into a forest as the aircraft made a low fly past at an airshow. Airbus and the French government attributed it entirely to pilot error, when there was sound evidence the aircraft took authority from the pilot at a crucial moment resulting in the loss of the aircraft along with some lives. It has been well demonstrated and remains to be of concern, that pilots who have trained on and spent the majority of their hours on Airbus airframes rely far too heavily on the automation (computers) than actually hand flying the aircraft, in doing so the have degraded their skills and airmanship subsequently this has caused them to make inappropriate decisions and take actions counter to basic airmanship. This has been the direct cause in a number of accidents that would not have occurred on a traditional airframe such as Boeing. A good example is Air France AF447 an accident occurring on a Rio to Paris route, and when it did occur on a Boeing 777 crash at San Francisco, that captain was new to type having flown many years on Airbuses, consequently he had been conditioned into relying too heavily on automation! Please don't be fooled by the glitz and glamour of an Airbus. Boeing have had to design their initial B707 and B747 airframes 'from the ground up' and on a 'clean sheet', all other aircraft developments are 'clean sheet' to a point, but they are based on the tried, tested and proven basics of those original aircraft. Airbus took many of the structural airframe designs from Boeings when they commenced their first airliner in the 1970s, the first A300s, from there added their own concepts and designs. Boeing had done all the hard work. Just as all the early flight navigation rules, development and use of airways (roads in the sky) and other airline operation logistics that all carriers work from today were designed by Pan Am during the early 1930s. Pan Am's contribution to the airline industry is phenomenal and largely unknown and unappreciated. The inspiration for the introduction of large wide bodied aircraft is thanks to Pan Am, they took ALL of the risk with the Boeing 747 program, it was their specifications, commitment and investment that saw that aircraft type from inception to operation. No other airline had that foresight or was prepared to take that risk, but they ALL enjoyed the benefits of it. It is a pity Pan Am didn't include in their initial and substantial investment a clause for royalties/commissions on each airframe sold! Most people including many airlines are unaware of their incredible history and contribution to aviation history. They were the first to make air travel possible to the average person. Prior to that it was an elite concept exclusive to the wealthy. The US Air Force even relied upon and subsequently commandeered Pan Am navigators and pilots during WW2, to learn how to operate long haul flights and night operations over water. Many Pan Am crew were lost to combat as a consequence. So there you have it if you are still reading, a little bit of aviation/airline history in case you are interested. There is so much more to your flight than just the seat ergonomics, latest in flight entertainment and quality (or lack thereof) of your meal. It is a complex dynamic industry with a rich history that most of the arrogant new comers and low cost airlines, and even some manufacturers, enjoy the benefits from, and would not care to know how or who made it possible! Safe and happy travelling, please don't be duped by cleaver marketing, do your research :) All the very best. Cheers, Anton
@@blarghmcblarghson1903 what did you expect when Reagan fired all the air controllers when they went on strike in the 80's and had all them all replaced with airline friend personnel.
@@marvinlee3450 how can she do that? What does she say? Did she seriously just take another flight right after that to go home if she wasnt from hawaii?
Being from New Zealand, my aunties friend was on her way back to Auckland. Her row didn't get taken out of the plane, but those in front of her did, she saw one passenger go into one of the engines, I don't think shes flown again to this day. I don't know if I would either.
How did she return to new zealand though or did she stay in hawaii and take a ship after? Probably no one flew ever again after this and maybe got stranded in hawaii if they were afraid of ships as well
I grew up in Plattsburgh, NY and I remember the 747 sitting on the tarmac at the end of the runway for many years. The company went bankrupt and left the plane. Eventually it was taken down and scrapped when a new terminal was built where it had been parked. I had no idea it was tied to an incident like this. I always learn something new on your channel Simon!
Simon mentioned, in passing, an issue with DC-10s. I remember the crash of Turkish Airlines Flight 981 on the television in 1974, in which a cargo door blew open, leading to the deaths of all 335 people on board, just outside Paris.
yep, if I remember correctly it was a poorly designed manual lock that you could push the handle into the "locked" position without the door being fully locked and with no way to visually check the door was fully locked
@@Woodie-xq1ew Yes, that's pretty much what is supposed to have happened. That, and the instructions were in English which the bloke who locked the door in Paris apparently couldn't read. There are videos about the crash on RUclips and I still remember it on the news and the description of a completely intact brain sitting on a rock.
@@nickk6518 Correct. The fix there included a small window in the door through which the proper position of the lock could be visually checked by the ground crew, and mandating this be used.
What is more shitty about the Ermenonville crash, is that exactly the same "incident" had occurred on an American Airlines Flight 96 from Detroit to Buffalo over Windsor, Ontario (commonly referred to as the "Windsor Incident"), 18 months earlier which fortunately landed without any loss of life. Once again the FAA "failed" in it's duty and sucked up to McDonnell-Douglas and refused to enforce mandatory changes to the locking door system, the result of which was 335 people smeared all over the forest just outside of Paris 18 months later.
I know the joke is "× days/weeks/months before retirement", but Captain David Cronin really was about to retire. What a hero he is, as well as First Officer Slader and Flight Engineer Thomas for working together through Crew Resource Management. Rest In Peace to you, sir, Captain David Cronin, you and your crew brought such a badly damaged airplane back to the ground, and so many families back together, I salute you all, and hope you never forget your dedication to your duties that night, 23000 feet over the Pacific Ocean.
@@sstroh08 My condolences on the loss of your Great Uncle Thomas. Hope he rests in peace, he with Captain Cronin and First Officer Slasher, all three deserve to rest easy for their outstanding accomplishment.
Heroism? They were doing their job. And if they didn't they would die too so stop glorifying what they are supposed to do. Now if he climbed out on to the wing...... You know where in going with this don't you.
I had a baby gate in my hallway with a double-locking grip handle mechanism that would retract two pressure feet from one side. One day, that handle went slack and the feet no longer operated. I opened it all up and found a triangular cam mechanism made of plastic had crumbled. I then took measurements, found a sufficient steel plate scrap in my garage, and fabricated a superior replacement part which holds up and functions better than the original to this day. True story - the moral being: in any mechanism the critical functionality will only be as durable as it's weakest component.
Good job with your DIY engineering lol. That's not sarcasm; I, too, am quite a garage MacGyver 😂 turned an electric can opener and a bit of scrap sheet metal into a rock tumbler a few months ago lmao
I'd guess that it's specifically designed like that, so that less capable people will go out and just buy another instead of fixing it! That's how some companies make money sadly! Obviously Boeing isn't going to deliberately build this sort of fault into their planes!!
Yeah you're moral is a great one to take from that experience. Another one I take from the plane crash spoken about is that, IMHO, all critical safety features need visible and redundant if you cannot visually confirm it secured then it isn't secured. No safety mechanism should ever have a failure that ends up with the signage saying "Safe" (short of just an unimaginable act of god type failure of course) because it slowly just breeds this habit of complacency shown above where it feels wrong, but the signage showing it safe convinced the man it was.
People who complain about regulations better remember Corporations have weighted the cost of recalling defective potential deadly products against the cost of lawsuits. Companies would fly planes until they fell from the sky and trucks with bald tires and no brakes.
Simon, another great summary of events and glad you pointed out the same issue with the DC-10. This is called tomb stone technology, ignoring design defects until people have died because of them.
Sorry, but you got a very important point very WRONG. The NTSB is NOT a regulatory agency. Its mission is to investigate transportation accidents on land, on the sea, and in the air. All that they can do is fault-finding and issue recommendations as to how to avoid such accidents in the future. They have frequently found the FAA at fault for allowing certain conditions to continue to exist that caused an accident. It is up to the FAA to issue the regulations to prevent future similar occurrences and to enforce those regulations
I was about to say this. At least once Simon referred to the NTSB as if it can regulate airlines. They cannot. The FAA regulates the alrcraaft manufacturers and airlines, sometimes poorly.
I was stationed in Hawaii with the US Navy when this and Aloha Airlines Flight 243 happened. I remember seeing Flight 811 sitting on the tarmac with the gaping hole facing the freeway as I drove past the airport.
So did you get badly affected by that and did you fly ever again after that? Perhaps took a ship home after? Probably this is what happened to the survivors, they never flew again and took ships home if they were not afraid of ships and were not from hawaii
It's interesting to see how coverage differs depending on who is telling the story. In the Mayday episode they put much more emphasis on the Campbells investigation and years of work to bring the truth to light.
I can only imagine how the cargo ground crew felt being told that people died because of their error.. Hopefully no one lost their jobs.. Then year's later to have it come out that it wasn't then it was a mechanical issue.. Must've been a huge weight off their chests!
the mother of the kiwi guy who died said she awoke at the time of the incident (like 3 or 4am new zealand time) to him standing at the foot of the bed, she thought he had come home earlier and was surprised to see him. when news of the incident came through she knew instantly that he was dead.
Are any of us truly surprised that economics wins out? I've seen videos on this before the amount of work those parents did, the amount of push back they got was astounding. If anyone has ever seen Air Crash Investigation/ Mayday, this crash is one of the very first they chose to look at.
@@phforNZ Petter has an almost uncomfortable seriousness about his videos. But he's really thorough. I've been watching a lot of 74gear recently and he legit challenged flat earthers to charter an "impossible" flight with him in October. Like...that'd be my most amusingly perfect birthday present. I'd love to fly around Antarctica with a bunch of tinfoil hat wearing people for a few hours for the lolz while looking at some really cold water.
He, like proper aviation experts, cover things showing there’s not just one root cause, or just one thing. For such terrible accidents, there has to be a series of failures, since mistakes will happen, systems will fail, so everything is designed with redundancy. So yeh, seconded.
And later....I was on this plane after repairs, heading from Honolulu to San Franscico... and part of the wing fell off...and we had to return to Honolulu with an emergency landing. Yes. The SAME plane.
@@paytonmanning1109 and all United had to do was report it to the public in a tiny little "ad-like" bit in the newspaper...that I imagine no one would have seen.
I've got a news flash for you. I retired in 2020 from Delta Airlines & ALL aircraft, wide body & narrow body have both cargo doors that open outwards. Boeing & Airbus. Just thought I'd let you know. Another great video, as usual.
Laura Brentlinger was my neighbor! Her and my mom would ride their horses together. I remember seeing a plaque on her wall about this incident. She said that during the depressurization, she was fully horizontal holding onto the staircase railing, nearly being blown out of the plane
I remember in ' Air Crash Investigators ', or one of those shows how the Campbell family actually showed up at the hearings & ' acquired ' a lot of evidence from it & as I believe Lee's father was a retired engineer then showed them how it had failed, someone got bent over the barrel that day & made to sequel like a pig, RIP Lee.
If you had to get sucked out of a plane I guess the better way to go would be to then get sucked into the engine. Instant death, as opposed to any of the passengers who missed the engines who would've fallen 35,000 feet, possibly conscious and aware of what's happening.
Wow, that captain and his crew basically preformed a Miracle to get them passengers to safety The difference between the whole aircraft breaking up and landing must have been very slim Rip them poor souls who lost there lives
I used to work in Nigeria, flying in and out every couple of months to and from my home base in Thailand. This was in the early 2000’s, well before this sort of information was available. I had never had any major problems with any flights, regardless of the carrier. I truly believed that anyone who worried about which company they flew with was simply paranoid. I flew Ethiopian Airlines on a number of occasions and never had a problem until one evening in Bangkok. I could see the luggage being from the terminal building and it looked very unprofessional. I still believed that all airlines would be under strict control to prevent unnecessary incidents and wasn’t unduly worried, regardless of what I was seeing. We all boarded the plane without incident and ended up accelerating down the runway. Experienced travellers know the feel of the speed increasing until the front of the plane starts to raise slightly. At this point the pilot applied what I can only guess was maximum breaking. Unbelievable that such a large and heavy plane can break so heavily. We eventually came to a stop on the lights at the end of the runway. There was no screaming and shouting of passengers: I think that everyone was simply in shock. The plane Captain, ever the professional, gave a very calm announcement over the PA to apologise on the rather abrupt stop and explained that it was necessary because the cargo door had opened immediately before lift off. The plane? A rather old 747. Nevertheless, it remained a favourite to fly on but I never flew Ethiopian Airlines again.
@@GoGreen1977 You make no sense. OP is correct-most regulations in the airline industry were put into place after people had already paid with their life.
Its not just that. From what I've heard, alot of the FAA administration bureaucrat arent experienced in the field, so the 737 max was just approved without question
Its disturbing and sad to know someone was sucked into the jet engine. They probably didnt have time to realize what had happened before it was over. Or the others who fell into the ocean below in complete darkness.
I am assuming your father was John Crawford. I am so sorry for your loss and I know there is nothing anyone can ever say to make it better specifically because it was avoidable. I am praying for you and your family, and your father 💕
So a ridiculously easy and simple fix was available but a government agency "way too cozy with airline manufacturers" and higher ups were so fucking obsessed with "not generating revenue" that nine people perished. If we want safety to actually become a priority, we have to actually enforce standards and hold those that make the decision for more money in their bank accounts when they already have more than they could ever spend somewhat accountable. Like actual prison time. The people who made the decision to not implement the repair that killed those people should be in prison. Or hung. Not to mention they threw the ground crew under the proverbial bus, so punishment for that too.
I worked air cargo for many years. The main cargo doors (top deck and bellies) still open to the outside for many reasons. Don't think you realize how much room these large curved would take up inside the aircraft. The standard ULD's would require their height cut by almost half.
I'm being extremely lazy & comfortable in my YT bubble but I don't feel like googling: Does it mention the circumstance of how the door pieces were located? I would like to know if the search was part of the investigation (like the guy's family or other private investigation - if I'm not I mistaken the govt official search was halted by that point), part of a search for something else (shipwreck, missing plane/boat/person, etc.) or a serendipitous coincidence of some other sort?
@@sujimtangerines yes it does cover how the door was recovered. The NTSB asked the Navy to assist in the search. The parents of the man who died were instrumental in pushing the investigation forward and it was their investigative work that caused the NTSB to re-issue their findings detailing the 'truth'.
@@theolddm Just finished watching it and it was totally worth the watch. The serendipity of that Parent having engineering experience to see through the smoke screens & call BS when he saw it. MAD PROPS to them for pilfering the files after the press conference. Might have still gotten to the root of the problem eventually, but I think what they learned in those documents is what turned the tide.
I love the fact that on ALL of Simon's channels when he's giving closing statements that he refers to a video that's to be linked to the one ending but it's NEVER the one that he's saying it is. At least, I've never had the proper video link when watching so maybe it's just me.
Wish you could have added some visuals illustrating the door locking system and failure. One thing that sticks in my mind was how the Campbell family had the presence of mind to quickly grab up all the unpublished documents on the faulty door and speed away in a taxi before the NTSB and UA could bury the matter in CYA red tape, thus forcing the entire investigation public. Hat's off to the Campbell's for their tenacity and devotion to their son's memory.
It must have been a horrific moment when that section of the fuselage was ripped off and the unfortunate passengers blown out, and even moreso the poor soul(s) who ended up minced in the engine, what an absolutely awful way to go, as for the others, goodness knows whether they lived as they fell, or if they died before they hit the water below, either way, it's a tragic event, which sadly doesn't seem to have been a lesson learned with regard to the profits over peoples' safety over the way the door opened...
If I were one of those passengers 'blown out', I think I'd prefer entering the engine, I'd probably be dead before I had time to realise what was happening.
The Campbell’s actually said they hoped their son was one of the ones that went into the engine because death would be instant…instead of almost 4 minutes of terror. I agree with them. Gruesome, yes, but instant.
@@reachandler3655 some skydivers have fatally fallen when their perachutes didnt open. I heard this is why the actor leonardo dicaprio doesnt do it, only the last of his perashutes didnt fail
I know it's dark but if I get sucked out of a plane I'd rather be blended by the blades then watch myself plumbing in the ocean while knowing what's going on
@@wpochert I keep seeing people repeat this and I want to know why. There are survivors of plane crashes (I.e Juliane Koepcke) that were awake the whole way down. The investigators told Lee’s parents its very possible he was awake during his descent. Stop repeating this as though it’s fact! If that was the case people would go unconscious skydiving!
@@doggylover108 No one skydives at 36000 feet... and Koepcke fell 10,000 feet.. HUGE difference...without a special suit and oxygen you would immediately, within seconds anyway, be unconscious .. .. hell, if someone instantly teleported you in regular clothes and a plane seat to the summit of Everest you would most likely be dead in minutes and unconscious immediately.. and that's only 29000 feet.... so yes, if you were to get sucked out of a plane while its cruising you wouldn't be awake long enough to know what happened.
@@doggylover108 Payne Stewart's jet lost compression at only around 23000 feet and everyone lost consciousness so fast the pilots didn't have time to make any maneuvers .. the plane flew for hours with no one at the controls until it ran out of fuel and crashed...
I think it was a Mayday episode I saw on this…The Campbell’s are the reason this case actually resulted in change. The father was an engineer and actually built a locking mechanism based on all of the papers they “liberated” from the press conferences (makes me laugh to see them grabbing everything and running for it…legends). He clearly demonstrates the problem with an exact model he made of a portion of the mechanism. Essentially airlines just didn’t want to touch the old wiring at all-basically deciding that would likely mean more extensive work as more problems would be found. I understand aluminum is lighter but even I, an art teacher, can see why that particular choice in metal would be an issue! These planes are supposed to last thousands of flights-even without the misfiring motors, it seems wear and tear would occur faster than many other important components.
Heroic efforts from all involved indeed! My Mom flew on that route a couple of weeks before the incident and told us the plane was groaning and creaking!
The United aircraft as pictured at 01:36 was known as the Boeing 747 SP, which was the smaller version of the standard 747. I remember this incident where the cargo door opened during flight and ripped a big portion of the fuselage off . That one passenger whose body was never recovered and his angry father took it upon himself to investigate the matter. This young man father was a qualified engineer by trade and manage to get the entire blue prints for this 747 model. After examine all the blueprints he found that the locking mechanism of the cargo door was badly designed. Apparently a short circuit could open the cargo door unwanted and if this happens during any flight this could be disastrous. If I remember correctly the DC-10,s also had identical cargo door problems, where some of the DC 10 was lost due to catastrophic decompression at cruising altitude.
"Murphy's Law" is no joke. If something can go wrong, it WILL go wrong. It's always just a matter of time until the jack-in-the-box pops. And as always, blame the guy with the least power to defend himself, a cargo-loader guy. It couldn't be Boeing's design, the FAA's extravagant repair schedule or the airline's lax attitude towards safety considering previous maintenance reports that caused the accident. Same old story, different day. It's good to see that after pressure, a subsequent inquiry reached a more honest conclusion.
Simon, at 12:40 you mention a "cozy relationship between the NTSB and the manufacturers and airlines that it was tasked with regulating." The NTSB is not a regulatory body. Did you mean the FAA? Also, outward-opening doors are present in nearly all widebody aircraft and all Airbus aircraft, including narrow-bodies.
Annoying, rude, persistent at a time when annoying amd rude persistence was needed. Seen them interviewed, wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of them.
@@owenshebbeare2999 True Kiwi battler, making sure the big guy doesn't get away with it any longer. I've seen many interviews with them and they do seem to be nice people, but yes mess with them and you wish you didn't
I enjoy all the content and the work you and your staff put in on all of the channels. If I could offer one bit of constructive criticism, it's definitely noticeable when you're plowing through something in which you're not that interested / it's been a long day / you're bored / etc. I actually feel empathy for you, and the easy "tell" is when you just end up talking faster and faster, which comes off as you're trying to get it finished as quickly as possible. On the flipside, when you get relaxed and talk through it with some sincere curiosity or interest, it makes this listener, at least, more engaged.
Sir, it has to be said, that your presentations are always done exceptionally well. Regardless of subject, I am truly impressed and you have my admiration. I tried to produce content, but that is simply not my fortune.
The Boeing 747 is one of the most iconic airlines evee, I've been on one with my family back in 2017 to New York City with British Airways. After we came back from New York City we flew back again with British Airways on a beautiful dreamliner. That was the first time I ever went on a 747 and I hope it's not the last.
I've seen the distorted locking mechanism from the panam flight. Imo the mechanism could be designed simpler + safer, no need for inward locking doors.
Hey Simon, very well researched video as always but I did want to address your final point. Most cargo areas on commercial airliners are not pressurized like the cabin so having outward swinging doors on a cargo area is not a hazard because there is no pressure pushing on it from the inside. However if a large leak were to start between the cabin and cargo hold and the pressurized air began to push against the door it could potentially cause the same failure Though if something were able to exert enough force on the aircraft to make a hole big enough for that to occur there would be other equally big problems to tend to. The aviation industry Prides itself on learning from every possible event whether it ended in casualties or everyone got out safe. For the most part if there's an incident it gets investigated and we all learn together.
Yes outward opening doors are still used, however design changes in their structures and in the decks separating cargo and passenger areas have improved. Still despite this and other incidents; flying is by far the safest mode of transportation.
This problem isn't unique to large aircraft. My mother and brother were on an Air Ambulance flight to Sydney when the door blew open. One of the passengers hung out the doorway while my mother held on to his legs as he closed the door. Australian Air Ambulance planes are typically 12 to 20 seaters that ferry passengers from outback towns to larger centres for treatment as the nearest large hospital could be hundreds or even thousands of kilometers away.
The Campbells were heros. they spent tons of their own money, time and life. chasing this. they were invite to and attended a hearing in DC (covering the plane ticket from NZ to DC themselves) they sat through the bs hearing. at the end, the Chair said "feel free to take 'what ever documents you need'" refering to the printed press release. so the campbells. loaded 6 boxes of NTSB evidence. NTSB tried to charge them with theft. but they had it recorded, that they were told "take what ever you want". NTSB offered to drop the issue if the evidence was returned. Campbells did. AFTER they copied everything in all 6 boxes. PROVING NTSB lax protocol and partial responsibility for the accident.
I'd have given them the copies lol.
Makes me proud to be a New Zealander.
Wow. We need to import New Zealanders. Our govt is corrupted af.
So... the national transportation SAFETY board deviated from their mandated mission of overseeing transportation SAFETY to interfere with legal action that would likely have encouraged transportation SAFETY. Corporate/regulatory revolving doors serve greed over safety.
YES!!! I saw a documentary about this incident and they are freaking heroes. I love them and what they did and how hard they worked on this.
My grandfather was one of the people who died during the accident. My mum was 19 when he died and I never got to meet him
The dedication and determination of Mr and Mrs Campbell was extraordinary. They pursued all parties ferociously. Their efforts in my view saved many more lives. All while experiencing the terrible grief of the loss of their son. They deserve our thanks . Mr Campbell Senior received an award from the New Zealand government for his efforts. Rightly so.
I mean, were you or your parents alive to vote for politicians that would also hold companies acxountable? Like it is okay to thank them but it could have been easier if the people voted in were also forcing the company to be accountable.
I've worked that plane many times later. I know many of the crew. They were so deafened by the decompression and the phones weren't working; they all just thought they'd crash in the sea until suddenly runway lights and knew they might survive after all. It was very traumatic for all concerned
DC-10 also had another crash before it’s gremlins got sorted… flying before the 90s was scary, and after 911 it was a pain in the ass and has been every since but hey at least it is far safer these days right Boeing? Lol
Please proofread your comment; it looks interesting but… well… it’s kinda gibberish
@@quasarsavage this reminds me of the 737 MAX flaws to do with MCAS that resulted in 2 fatal crashes. Boeing blames someone else, and the FAA seemingly overlooks design issues or doesn’t impose directives to fix them quickly.
I can only imagine! 😱
I’m not
I saw a doc on this before. The Campbells got the documents by stealing them basically. They could smell the BS coming from the FAA trying to blame the ground crew. So during a break the room was empty…all the documents were still in the room…the gathered all the boxes the could and walked right out the door as fast as they could. Smartest move they ever did.
I saw that doc. All those trips they made around America to manufacturers and labs. They spent both time and money and I'm glad they had that money. There work and refusal to give up couldn't save their sons but I'm sured they saved a lot of others. They didn't let it get buried.
Mayday (🇨🇦) or Air Crash Investigation (🌏 elsewhere) because I seen it too
"Unlocking Disaster", the season-one (2003) and first episode of the long-running Canadian TV series Mayday[8] (called Air Emergency and Air Disasters in the U.S. and Air Crash Investigation in the UK and elsewhere around the world), which included interviews with survivors and a dramatization of the accident. The flight was also included in a Mayday season-six (2007) Science of Disaster special titled "Ripped Apart"."
Lee Campbell was actually the one that went through the engine. His parents preferred this in a macabre way that at least he died instantly instead of falling thousands of feet.
Reminds me of Nikki Lauder and his 767 that the trust reversers ripped the wings off. Boeing said No he said BS and being a billionaire he paid for an investigation to prove Boeing wrong.
Campbell's belong in prison for stealing documents! Bloody thieves! I'm sure they are spies for a rival company
That capitan is a hero, Sure not everyone could be saved. But wow. The fact he managed to save so many.
He would have done the same thing if he was the only person on the plane.
This is where the monea went. It is such a thing where you invest and hope you will never need it. Theoretically someone off the street could relatively easy learn how to take off a 747 and correctly programming the autopilot. That is not really where the magic happens ;)
@@nadineblachetta3202 I'm not sure they could dear. It takes years to learn how to be a pilot his expertise and experience managed to make him save more than your so called average joe
I remember when this happened. The pilot was to be retired because of his age, although he was probably the most qualified pilot available, and it was likely because of his experience that more people didn't lose their lives.
@@insertgenericusernamehere2402 It's not as hard as you think. Pilots get paid what they do not for the mundane trips through the sky as a glorified bus driver, but for situations exactly like this one. Emergencies are where they earn their paychecks. Having that experienced and expert pilot at the yolk probably saved the rest of the passenger's lives.
I remember seeing the news article about this particular tragedy in the New Zealand Herald, and being deeply affected by it. Later I saw a documentary about the heroic efforts of the Campbells to obtain justice for the loss of their beloved son Lee, and also the other 8 passengers who lost their lives, and actually managing to successfully make the authorities involved sit up and take notice, after a huge battle. I have never forgotten that.
I appreciate the dedicated work of Kevin and Susan Campbell.
Kevin actually built a replica door lock and proved how it could open in flight. This case was on “Mayday” July 2020
12:48 The NTSB is in no way tasked with regulating anyone. Their task is strictly to investigate accidents and incidents, and then pass along recommendations to the relevant agencies; in this* case, the FAA...which , yes, absolutely has had (and continues to have) what many would argue is a too-cozy relationship with aircraft manufacturers and airlines.
FAA isn't derisively referred to as the Tombstone Agency without reason.
I actually have significantly less trust in american carriers because of this. If anything, i'd much prefer to fly in an airbus by a carrier with no national connections to the manufacturers. All the derision the a380 gets, or the a350, its hard to argue against 0 fatalities.
@@nanonano2595 Airbus aircraft may seem more modern and comfortable but when it comes to safety, that is an entirely different story.
I am aircrew for a major airline were we operate both Boeing and Airbus fleets. I have NO trust in Airbus aircraft due to their safety issues, to the degree I don't bid for trips operated by those types, I stick to Boeing routes even if they are less popular trips/destinations.
Give me a Boeing any day, I have endless confidence in those aircraft, I have had a few close experiences that would have had an entirely less favourable outcome had they occurred on a Airbus aircraft.
If the event discussed in this video had have occurred on an Airbus airframe, the ruptured fuselage would likely have continued to peel back and weaken its structural integrity to total failure, and all would have perished as it broke up and fell into the Pacific Ocean.
If you are interested, here are just a handful of examples and a little bit of history too. I hope you enjoy and learn something from it.
Please know that I write this with a very polite tone and not a disrespectful or arrogant challenge to your comment.
It is hard to discern sometimes when only reading and not hearing the tone of voice.
Airbuses are extremely flimsy, on the odd occasion I'm seated at the very back doors on an A330, when looking up the cabin during turbulence you only need to observe the continuous long profile or line of overhead lockers to notice how very much the fuselage twists and turns. That doesn't happen on B747s, B767s, B777s. There is some flexing, enough for the airframe to be forgiving and have the strength to withstand the forces of flight loading.
Airbuses really are just junk. As evidence look how many OLD 1960/70s era B707s, B727s B747s still in reliable service, sadly albeit cargo operators now, they are just do extremely well built, providing they are well maintained they can tolerate many many more cycles. These are the dynamics associated with the forces encountered with each takeoff, fuselage pressurisation and landing.
In contrast there are almost zero OLD mid 1970s era Airbus aircraft such as A300s or A310s still fulfilling these roles, because they are just not built as strongly, you could forget ever seeing old A320/19/21s and 330/40s operating decades after they were built, they're flimsier still.
Having said that, I would sooner fly on an old A300 or A310 than their contemporary counterparts if I had to choose. The Airbus automation technology (computerisation) since the A320s were developed in the early 1980s is a death trap! The flight laws the aircraft operate with take much of the control AWAY from the flight crew.
The automation (computers) can often take pilots into some dangerous corners during a variety of control related emergencies, then without warning shut down consequently causing confusion, or exacerbating any existing confusion.
The resulting sudden escalation of the crew's already high workload can take them 'over the edge'. The side sticks they use in place of yokes, the pilot centrally positioned 'steering' control, are also a very dangerous design.
Boeing, and similar technology, pilots fly their aircraft and have full authority of all control systems, conversely Airbus pilots are flown by their aircraft and hold much less authority of its respective control systems. There have been a number of incidents whereby the crew have attempted to exercise a go-around/missed approach during the final stages of landing due to instability/weather etc. A Boeing or similar will respond to the crew's inputs and fly away under the crew's control, the Airbuses have ignored the crew inputs and continued to land. There is a famous video clip of a Lufthansa A320 landing at Hamburg with strong wind and crosswind gusts. They had to fight with their aircraft desperately to command a go-around, entirely due to the aircraft's automation overriding the crew and taking away their authority. Other events, not caught on camera, have led to worse outcomes. When the A320 was first introduced there was a crash into a forest as the aircraft made a low fly past at an airshow. Airbus and the French government attributed it entirely to pilot error, when there was sound evidence the aircraft took authority from the pilot at a crucial moment resulting in the loss of the aircraft along with some lives.
It has been well demonstrated and remains to be of concern, that pilots who have trained on and spent the majority of their hours on Airbus airframes rely far too heavily on the automation (computers) than actually hand flying the aircraft, in doing so the have degraded their skills and airmanship subsequently this has caused them to make inappropriate decisions and take actions counter to basic airmanship. This has been the direct cause in a number of accidents that would not have occurred on a traditional airframe such as Boeing. A good example is Air France AF447 an accident occurring on a Rio to Paris route, and when it did occur on a Boeing 777 crash at San Francisco, that captain was new to type having flown many years on Airbuses, consequently he had been conditioned into relying too heavily on automation!
Please don't be fooled by the glitz and glamour of an Airbus. Boeing have had to design their initial B707 and B747 airframes 'from the ground up' and on a 'clean sheet', all other aircraft developments are 'clean sheet' to a point, but they are based on the tried, tested and proven basics of those original aircraft.
Airbus took many of the structural airframe designs from Boeings when they commenced their first airliner in the 1970s, the first A300s, from there added their own concepts and designs.
Boeing had done all the hard work. Just as all the early flight navigation rules, development and use of airways (roads in the sky) and other airline operation logistics that all carriers work from today were designed by Pan Am during the early 1930s.
Pan Am's contribution to the airline industry is phenomenal and largely unknown and unappreciated. The inspiration for the introduction of large wide bodied aircraft is thanks to Pan Am, they took ALL of the risk with the Boeing 747 program, it was their specifications, commitment and investment that saw that aircraft type from inception to operation. No other airline had that foresight or was prepared to take that risk, but they ALL enjoyed the benefits of it. It is a pity Pan Am didn't include in their initial and substantial investment a clause for royalties/commissions on each airframe sold! Most people including many airlines are unaware of their incredible history and contribution to aviation history. They were the first to make air travel possible to the average person. Prior to that it was an elite concept exclusive to the wealthy.
The US Air Force even relied upon and subsequently commandeered Pan Am navigators and pilots during WW2, to learn how to operate long haul flights and night operations over water.
Many Pan Am crew were lost to combat as a consequence.
So there you have it if you are still reading, a little bit of aviation/airline history in case you are interested.
There is so much more to your flight than just the seat ergonomics, latest in flight entertainment and quality (or lack thereof) of your meal.
It is a complex dynamic industry with a rich history that most of the arrogant new comers and low cost airlines, and even some manufacturers, enjoy the benefits from, and would not care to know how or who made it possible!
Safe and happy travelling, please don't be duped by cleaver marketing, do your research :) All the very best. Cheers, Anton
@@blarghmcblarghson1903 what did you expect when Reagan fired all the air controllers when they went on strike in the 80's and had all them all replaced with airline friend personnel.
Didn’t this cosy relationship come back to light when the 737Max planes started crashing...
I know someone that was in a row behind where the plane came apart. She is so lucky.Changed her outlook on life for sure.
Is she flying though? Or did she never fly again after that and got stranded on hawaii or took a ship home if she wasnt from hawaii?
@@dreamthedream8929 she still flies
@@marvinlee3450 how can she do that? What does she say? Did she seriously just take another flight right after that to go home if she wasnt from hawaii?
Being from New Zealand, my aunties friend was on her way back to Auckland.
Her row didn't get taken out of the plane, but those in front of her did, she saw one passenger go into one of the engines, I don't think shes flown again to this day. I don't know if I would either.
How did she return to new zealand though or did she stay in hawaii and take a ship after? Probably no one flew ever again after this and maybe got stranded in hawaii if they were afraid of ships as well
Respectfully done, as always.
I grew up in Plattsburgh, NY and I remember the 747 sitting on the tarmac at the end of the runway for many years. The company went bankrupt and left the plane. Eventually it was taken down and scrapped when a new terminal was built where it had been parked. I had no idea it was tied to an incident like this. I always learn something new on your channel Simon!
Simon mentioned, in passing, an issue with DC-10s. I remember the crash of Turkish Airlines Flight 981 on the television in 1974, in which a cargo door blew open, leading to the deaths of all 335 people on board, just outside Paris.
yep, if I remember correctly it was a poorly designed manual lock that you could push the handle into the "locked" position without the door being fully locked and with no way to visually check the door was fully locked
The inquiry found neither the cargo door nor its operation was 100% before takeoff and its unfortunate its failure took out the control cables.
@@Woodie-xq1ew Yes, that's pretty much what is supposed to have happened. That, and the instructions were in English which the bloke who locked the door in Paris apparently couldn't read. There are videos about the crash on RUclips and I still remember it on the news and the description of a completely intact brain sitting on a rock.
@@nickk6518 Correct. The fix there included a small window in the door through which the proper position of the lock could be visually checked by the ground crew, and mandating this be used.
What is more shitty about the Ermenonville crash, is that exactly the same "incident" had occurred on an American Airlines Flight 96 from Detroit to Buffalo over Windsor, Ontario (commonly referred to as the "Windsor Incident"), 18 months earlier which fortunately landed without any loss of life. Once again the FAA "failed" in it's duty and sucked up to McDonnell-Douglas and refused to enforce mandatory changes to the locking door system, the result of which was 335 people smeared all over the forest just outside of Paris 18 months later.
I know the joke is "× days/weeks/months before retirement", but Captain David Cronin really was about to retire. What a hero he is, as well as First Officer Slader and Flight Engineer Thomas for working together through Crew Resource Management.
Rest In Peace to you, sir, Captain David Cronin, you and your crew brought such a badly damaged airplane back to the ground, and so many families back together, I salute you all, and hope you never forget your dedication to your duties that night, 23000 feet over the Pacific Ocean.
The flight engineer was my great uncle. He has passed on too. He had some absolutely wild stories about this.
@@sstroh08 My condolences on the loss of your Great Uncle Thomas. Hope he rests in peace, he with Captain Cronin and First Officer Slasher, all three deserve to rest easy for their outstanding accomplishment.
Heroism? They were doing their job. And if they didn't they would die too so stop glorifying what they are supposed to do. Now if he climbed out on to the wing...... You know where in going with this don't you.
@@sstroh08 did he fly after this traumatic experience or did he avoid planes as much as possible after that?
@@sstroh08 , who are you? An Ellis cousin? Mark was my dad Gary’s brother.. Thanks for your comment. He sure did live an interesting life.
I had a baby gate in my hallway with a double-locking grip handle mechanism that would retract two pressure feet from one side. One day, that handle went slack and the feet no longer operated. I opened it all up and found a triangular cam mechanism made of plastic had crumbled. I then took measurements, found a sufficient steel plate scrap in my garage, and fabricated a superior replacement part which holds up and functions better than the original to this day. True story - the moral being: in any mechanism the critical functionality will only be as durable as it's weakest component.
Good job with your DIY engineering lol. That's not sarcasm; I, too, am quite a garage MacGyver 😂 turned an electric can opener and a bit of scrap sheet metal into a rock tumbler a few months ago lmao
Good show. I think there are a lot of products out there where the weak link is a part switched from metal to plastic.
@@joshyoung1440 Now there's a RUclips video would happily watch
I'd guess that it's specifically designed like that, so that less capable people will go out and just buy another instead of fixing it! That's how some companies make money sadly! Obviously Boeing isn't going to deliberately build this sort of fault into their planes!!
Yeah you're moral is a great one to take from that experience. Another one I take from the plane crash spoken about is that, IMHO, all critical safety features need visible and redundant if you cannot visually confirm it secured then it isn't secured. No safety mechanism should ever have a failure that ends up with the signage saying "Safe" (short of just an unimaginable act of god type failure of course) because it slowly just breeds this habit of complacency shown above where it feels wrong, but the signage showing it safe convinced the man it was.
People who complain about regulations better remember Corporations have weighted the cost of recalling defective potential deadly products against the cost of lawsuits. Companies would fly planes until they fell from the sky and trucks with bald tires and no brakes.
The Ford Pinto comes to mind.
How many passengers will pay extra for a better safety record?
I'm always impressed with the respect and dignity with which you treat these subjects and their victims. Well done Simon and team.
Yeah the funky upbeat music and the sponsor plugs really come across as respectful 😂
Simon, another great summary of events and glad you pointed out the same issue with the DC-10. This is called tomb stone technology, ignoring design defects until people have died because of them.
Some car companies have left design defects unresolved because it’s cheaper to pay compensation to victims rather than recall the calls for repair
Unfortunately happens all too frequently...
The flight engineer was my great uncle. He has passed on now, but he had some wild stories about this.
Randal Thomas passed away?
Sorry, but you got a very important point very WRONG. The NTSB is NOT a regulatory agency. Its mission is to investigate transportation accidents on land, on the sea, and in the air. All that they can do is fault-finding and issue recommendations as to how to avoid such accidents in the future. They have frequently found the FAA at fault for allowing certain conditions to continue to exist that caused an accident. It is up to the FAA to issue the regulations to prevent future similar occurrences and to enforce those regulations
I was about to say this. At least once Simon referred to the NTSB as if it can regulate airlines. They cannot. The FAA regulates the alrcraaft manufacturers and airlines, sometimes poorly.
The NTSB, in this case, originally was in a rush to exculpate the plane design.
I was stationed in Hawaii with the US Navy when this and Aloha Airlines Flight 243 happened.
I remember seeing Flight 811 sitting on the tarmac with the gaping hole facing the freeway as I drove past the airport.
So did you get badly affected by that and did you fly ever again after that? Perhaps took a ship home after? Probably this is what happened to the survivors, they never flew again and took ships home if they were not afraid of ships and were not from hawaii
the fact SOMEONE GOT SUCKED INTO THE ENGINE makes this so much more hard to hear!
Good grief Simon! Can you imagine what those 9 people were thinking? Yikes. Thanks for the video. Great stuff. I always look forward to your next one.
It's interesting to see how coverage differs depending on who is telling the story. In the Mayday episode they put much more emphasis on the Campbells investigation and years of work to bring the truth to light.
I can only imagine how the cargo ground crew felt being told that people died because of their error.. Hopefully no one lost their jobs..
Then year's later to have it come out that it wasn't then it was a mechanical issue.. Must've been a huge weight off their chests!
the mother of the kiwi guy who died said she awoke at the time of the incident (like 3 or 4am new zealand time) to him standing at the foot of the bed, she thought he had come home earlier and was surprised to see him. when news of the incident came through she knew instantly that he was dead.
Are any of us truly surprised that economics wins out? I've seen videos on this before the amount of work those parents did, the amount of push back they got was astounding. If anyone has ever seen Air Crash Investigation/ Mayday, this crash is one of the very first they chose to look at.
Mentor Pilot covered this extremely well.
I recommend watching it.
There's something about him that I just can't stand, that I can't place.
he was on national radio in Ireland this week!
He is good.
@@phforNZ Petter has an almost uncomfortable seriousness about his videos. But he's really thorough.
I've been watching a lot of 74gear recently and he legit challenged flat earthers to charter an "impossible" flight with him in October. Like...that'd be my most amusingly perfect birthday present. I'd love to fly around Antarctica with a bunch of tinfoil hat wearing people for a few hours for the lolz while looking at some really cold water.
He, like proper aviation experts, cover things showing there’s not just one root cause, or just one thing.
For such terrible accidents, there has to be a series of failures, since mistakes will happen, systems will fail, so everything is designed with redundancy.
So yeh, seconded.
And later....I was on this plane after repairs, heading from Honolulu to San Franscico... and part of the wing fell off...and we had to return to Honolulu with an emergency landing. Yes. The SAME plane.
😨😨😨😨😨😨😨
That is fucking WILD
@@paytonmanning1109 it was a bit sketchy to say the least!
@@paytonmanning1109 and all United had to do was report it to the public in a tiny little "ad-like" bit in the newspaper...that I imagine no one would have seen.
I've got a news flash for you. I retired in 2020 from Delta Airlines & ALL aircraft, wide body & narrow body have both cargo doors that open outwards. Boeing & Airbus. Just thought I'd let you know. Another great video, as usual.
Laura Brentlinger was my neighbor! Her and my mom would ride their horses together. I remember seeing a plaque on her wall about this incident. She said that during the depressurization, she was fully horizontal holding onto the staircase railing, nearly being blown out of the plane
I remember in ' Air Crash Investigators ', or one of those shows how the Campbell family actually showed up at the hearings & ' acquired ' a lot of evidence from it & as I believe Lee's father was a retired engineer then showed them how it had failed, someone got bent over the barrel that day & made to sequel like a pig, RIP Lee.
If you had to get sucked out of a plane I guess the better way to go would be to then get sucked into the engine. Instant death, as opposed to any of the passengers who missed the engines who would've fallen 35,000 feet, possibly conscious and aware of what's happening.
Wow, that captain and his crew basically preformed a Miracle to get them passengers to safety
The difference between the whole aircraft breaking up and landing must have been very slim
Rip them poor souls who lost there lives
An inward opening door, among other things, is what sealed the fate of the Apollo 1 crew. RIP Grissom, White and Chaffee.
I used to work in Nigeria, flying in and out every couple of months to and from my home base in Thailand.
This was in the early 2000’s, well before this sort of information was available.
I had never had any major problems with any flights, regardless of the carrier.
I truly believed that anyone who worried about which company they flew with was simply paranoid.
I flew Ethiopian Airlines on a number of occasions and never had a problem until one evening in Bangkok. I could see the luggage being from the terminal building and it looked very unprofessional.
I still believed that all airlines would be under strict control to prevent unnecessary incidents and wasn’t unduly worried, regardless of what I was seeing.
We all boarded the plane without incident and ended up accelerating down the runway. Experienced travellers know the feel of the speed increasing until the front of the plane starts to raise slightly.
At this point the pilot applied what I can only guess was maximum breaking. Unbelievable that such a large and heavy plane can break so heavily.
We eventually came to a stop on the lights at the end of the runway.
There was no screaming and shouting of passengers: I think that everyone was simply in shock.
The plane Captain, ever the professional, gave a very calm announcement over the PA to apologise on the rather abrupt stop and explained that it was necessary because the cargo door had opened immediately before lift off.
The plane? A rather old 747.
Nevertheless, it remained a favourite to fly on but I never flew Ethiopian Airlines again.
How in the heck was the door found on the ocean floor? Seems to be beyond the needle in a haystack analogy.
It really sucks that most regulations are only put into place after somebody pays the ultimate price and loses their life
...and even then the cosy relationship between Boeing and regulators needs to be overcome.
Most regulations are NOT put into effect after a tragedy. If they were, the first commercial aircraft wouldn't have gotten off the runway.
@@GoGreen1977 You make no sense. OP is correct-most regulations in the airline industry were put into place after people had already paid with their life.
The cosy relationship between FAA & Boeing is responsible for the 787 Max disasters.
RIP
To the nine passengers of United Airlines Flight 811
2:55 - Chapter 1 - Incident
8:40 - Chapter 2 - National transportation safety board investigation
12:55 - Chapter 3 - Additional investigation
15:55 - Chapter 4 - Conclusion
First time I've been so early that your comment isn't finished :-P
Imagine being a ground crewman and getting blamed for 9 deaths caused by a problem Boeing had known about for over a decade
10:02 "allegedly"...Simon's legal team is all over that 👍
Love the delivery of your videos!
Trans World Airlines Flight 800 (TWA800) would be interesting. Many people thought it was shot down by U.S. military.
but it wasn't
That kind of heroism and skill of the captain isn’t the kind you can teach. That’s a natural gift.
Incredible.
Echoes of the story around the 737 MAX.
MAX just showed that things continued as normal.
I know a passenger from this flight. He is possibly the luckiest person I’ve ever met!
Exactly the same regulatory culture did lead to the 737 max accidents...
This should have been the heads up FAA needed to improve.
Its not just that. From what I've heard, alot of the FAA administration bureaucrat arent experienced in the field, so the 737 max was just approved without question
Its disturbing and sad to know someone was sucked into the jet engine. They probably didnt have time to realize what had happened before it was over. Or the others who fell into the ocean below in complete darkness.
My father died in this incident. I was 20.
We were never the same. Mostly because this was avoidable.
I am assuming your father was John Crawford. I am so sorry for your loss and I know there is nothing anyone can ever say to make it better specifically because it was avoidable. I am praying for you and your family, and your father 💕
So a ridiculously easy and simple fix was available but a government agency "way too cozy with airline manufacturers" and higher ups were so fucking obsessed with "not generating revenue" that nine people perished. If we want safety to actually become a priority, we have to actually enforce standards and hold those that make the decision for more money in their bank accounts when they already have more than they could ever spend somewhat accountable. Like actual prison time. The people who made the decision to not implement the repair that killed those people should be in prison. Or hung. Not to mention they threw the ground crew under the proverbial bus, so punishment for that too.
Good video 👍
I can't imagine anything more terrifying than getting sucked out of plane
Aloha 243: Hold my beer!
All jokes aside, this crew was top notch.
That one sparked my fear of flying
I worked air cargo for many years. The main cargo doors (top deck and bellies) still open to the outside for many reasons. Don't think you realize how much room these large curved would take up inside the aircraft. The standard ULD's would require their height cut by almost half.
Always fascinating and educational.
For those wanting more info on this, it was an episode of Air Crash Investigation - Season 1, Episode 2 "Unlocking Disaster". It's here on RUclips.
I'm being extremely lazy & comfortable in my YT bubble but I don't feel like googling: Does it mention the circumstance of how the door pieces were located?
I would like to know if the search was part of the investigation (like the guy's family or other private investigation - if I'm not I mistaken the govt official search was halted by that point), part of a search for something else (shipwreck, missing plane/boat/person, etc.) or a serendipitous coincidence of some other sort?
@@sujimtangerines yes it does cover how the door was recovered. The NTSB asked the Navy to assist in the search. The parents of the man who died were instrumental in pushing the investigation forward and it was their investigative work that caused the NTSB to re-issue their findings detailing the 'truth'.
@@theolddm Excellent! Thank you for the rec...I'll put it in the queue right now.
@@theolddm Just finished watching it and it was totally worth the watch. The serendipity of that Parent having engineering experience to see through the smoke screens & call BS when he saw it. MAD PROPS to them for pilfering the files after the press conference. Might have still gotten to the root of the problem eventually, but I think what they learned in those documents is what turned the tide.
THIS, is the way to present data. Hypothesis & information rocks vs. conjecture & misinformation. Thank you, sir!
That photo used at timestamp 1:40 is a 747SP not the 747 varient involved in the accident
I love the fact that on ALL of Simon's channels when he's giving closing statements that he refers to a video that's to be linked to the one ending but it's NEVER the one that he's saying it is. At least, I've never had the proper video link when watching so maybe it's just me.
Sad that this is not the only flight affected by this same problem.
I'm glad Boeing learned their lesson about covering up design flaws, so that no such thing could ever happen again. /sarcasm
I saw the thumbnail and assumed this video would be a story with no survivors. It's sad that 9 people died, but it's amazing that so many were saved.
Wish you could have added some visuals illustrating the door locking system and failure. One thing that sticks in my mind was how the Campbell family had the presence of mind to quickly grab up all the unpublished documents on the faulty door and speed away in a taxi before the NTSB and UA could bury the matter in CYA red tape, thus forcing the entire investigation public. Hat's off to the Campbell's for their tenacity and devotion to their son's memory.
What a horrible way to retire
It must have been a horrific moment when that section of the fuselage was ripped off and the unfortunate passengers blown out, and even moreso the poor soul(s) who ended up minced in the engine, what an absolutely awful way to go, as for the others, goodness knows whether they lived as they fell, or if they died before they hit the water below, either way, it's a tragic event, which sadly doesn't seem to have been a lesson learned with regard to the profits over peoples' safety over the way the door opened...
If I were one of those passengers 'blown out', I think I'd prefer entering the engine, I'd probably be dead before I had time to realise what was happening.
The Campbell’s actually said they hoped their son was one of the ones that went into the engine because death would be instant…instead of almost 4 minutes of terror. I agree with them. Gruesome, yes, but instant.
@@reachandler3655 some skydivers have fatally fallen when their perachutes didnt open. I heard this is why the actor leonardo dicaprio doesnt do it, only the last of his perashutes didnt fail
@@PetThePeeves it has also happened to some skydivers whose perachutes failed to open
@@dreamthedream8929 I doubt those on the plane had parachutes, so that's irrelevant to this event.
I know it's dark but if I get sucked out of a plane I'd rather be blended by the blades then watch myself plumbing in the ocean while knowing what's going on
Chances are you would have been nearly immediately unconscious at that altitude
@@wpochert I've done some research and unfortunately you wouldn't. I would prefer that though.
@@wpochert I keep seeing people repeat this and I want to know why. There are survivors of plane crashes (I.e Juliane Koepcke) that were awake the whole way down. The investigators told Lee’s parents its very possible he was awake during his descent. Stop repeating this as though it’s fact! If that was the case people would go unconscious skydiving!
@@doggylover108 No one skydives at 36000 feet... and Koepcke fell 10,000 feet.. HUGE difference...without a special suit and oxygen you would immediately, within seconds anyway, be unconscious .. .. hell, if someone instantly teleported you in regular clothes and a plane seat to the summit of Everest you would most likely be dead in minutes and unconscious immediately.. and that's only 29000 feet.... so yes, if you were to get sucked out of a plane while its cruising you wouldn't be awake long enough to know what happened.
@@doggylover108 Payne Stewart's jet lost compression at only around 23000 feet and everyone lost consciousness so fast the pilots didn't have time to make any maneuvers .. the plane flew for hours with no one at the controls until it ran out of fuel and crashed...
Anyone else just randomly and consistently find new channels that Simon whistler has.
I think it was a Mayday episode I saw on this…The Campbell’s are the reason this case actually resulted in change. The father was an engineer and actually built a locking mechanism based on all of the papers they “liberated” from the press conferences (makes me laugh to see them grabbing everything and running for it…legends). He clearly demonstrates the problem with an exact model he made of a portion of the mechanism. Essentially airlines just didn’t want to touch the old wiring at all-basically deciding that would likely mean more extensive work as more problems would be found.
I understand aluminum is lighter but even I, an art teacher, can see why that particular choice in metal would be an issue! These planes are supposed to last thousands of flights-even without the misfiring motors, it seems wear and tear would occur faster than many other important components.
I was in Hawaii with my parents and sisters family when this happened. In Honolulu, I was 10 and worried sick of flying back to Winnipeg.
6:15 Yes a "Boeing 747 cockpit" ladies and gentlemen...
The real problem was the captain admitted he was only three days from retirement and fate was trying to take him out.
Heroic efforts from all involved indeed! My Mom flew on that route a couple of weeks before the incident and told us the plane was groaning and creaking!
The United aircraft as pictured at 01:36 was known as the Boeing 747 SP, which was the smaller version of the standard 747. I remember this incident where the cargo door opened during flight and ripped a big portion of the fuselage off . That one passenger whose body was never recovered and his angry father took it upon himself to investigate the matter. This young man father was a qualified engineer by trade and manage to get the entire blue prints for this 747 model. After examine all the blueprints he found that the locking mechanism of the cargo door was badly designed. Apparently a short circuit could open the cargo door unwanted and if this happens during any flight this could be disastrous. If I remember correctly the DC-10,s also had identical cargo door problems, where some of the DC 10 was lost due to catastrophic decompression at cruising altitude.
"Murphy's Law" is no joke. If something can go wrong, it WILL go wrong. It's always just a matter of time until the jack-in-the-box pops. And as always, blame the guy with the least power to defend himself, a cargo-loader guy. It couldn't be Boeing's design, the FAA's extravagant repair schedule or the airline's lax attitude towards safety considering previous maintenance reports that caused the accident. Same old story, different day. It's good to see that after pressure, a subsequent inquiry reached a more honest conclusion.
Holy crap! An air disaster that Petter HASN'T made a video on yet.
I swear he has. But I usually only come on RUclips while stoned so 😂
as morbid as it sounds, air crashes are my favourite kind of non-natural disaster videos! more pls!
This guy sounds exactly like he's talked all day long for the last several years
How many channels does this guy have? He's everywhere
this story reminds me of the Cargo Door from the DC10s
*Whoa!* I don't mean to be rude but I never heard anyone talk so fast! I couldn't finish this vid as the speed made me too anxious
Simon, at 12:40 you mention a "cozy relationship between the NTSB and the manufacturers and airlines that it was tasked with regulating." The NTSB is not a regulatory body. Did you mean the FAA?
Also, outward-opening doors are present in nearly all widebody aircraft and all Airbus aircraft, including narrow-bodies.
The fact that you explained them landing in Honolulu with a hole in it and minus 9 ppl was jarring.
Misleading title. A cargo door blowing off is a far cry from "falling apart in the sky." Despite the 9 lives lost, the aircraft landed safely.
The Campbells are legends!
Annoying, rude, persistent at a time when annoying amd rude persistence was needed. Seen them interviewed, wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of them.
@@owenshebbeare2999 True Kiwi battler, making sure the big guy doesn't get away with it any longer. I've seen many interviews with them and they do seem to be nice people, but yes mess with them and you wish you didn't
My ears perked up when you said Plattsburgh NY, thats where I grew up
I enjoy all the content and the work you and your staff put in on all of the channels. If I could offer one bit of constructive criticism, it's definitely noticeable when you're plowing through something in which you're not that interested / it's been a long day / you're bored / etc. I actually feel empathy for you, and the easy "tell" is when you just end up talking faster and faster, which comes off as you're trying to get it finished as quickly as possible. On the flipside, when you get relaxed and talk through it with some sincere curiosity or interest, it makes this listener, at least, more engaged.
It was wayyyyyy too fast for me to enjoy listening to
The channel Mini Air Crash Investigation has also done a solid job of covering this, and I recommend watching his video as well.
Chuck Norris was in the window seat and had to sneeze. Being a polite fellow, he turned his head toward the window.
Sir, it has to be said, that your presentations are always done exceptionally well.
Regardless of subject, I am truly impressed and you have my admiration.
I tried to produce content, but that is simply not my fortune.
The Boeing 747 is one of the most iconic airlines evee, I've been on one with my family back in 2017 to New York City with British Airways. After we came back from New York City we flew back again with British Airways on a beautiful dreamliner. That was the first time I ever went on a 747 and I hope it's not the last.
Excellent video 📹
Economics will always win out as long as there are no criminal consequences.
I've seen the distorted locking mechanism from the panam flight.
Imo the mechanism could be designed simpler + safer, no need for inward locking doors.
I’m sure they put more effort into finding the lost passengers than the missing door. Right???
Apparently at least one of them went through an engine, so there really might not have been anything to find.
The lost passengers are dead and cannot save anyone; the door can
With respect to the dead finding the door had the potential to make air travel safer.
Hey Simon, very well researched video as always but I did want to address your final point. Most cargo areas on commercial airliners are not pressurized like the cabin so having outward swinging doors on a cargo area is not a hazard because there is no pressure pushing on it from the inside. However if a large leak were to start between the cabin and cargo hold and the pressurized air began to push against the door it could potentially cause the same failure Though if something were able to exert enough force on the aircraft to make a hole big enough for that to occur there would be other equally big problems to tend to.
The aviation industry Prides itself on learning from every possible event whether it ended in casualties or everyone got out safe. For the most part if there's an incident it gets investigated and we all learn together.
Yes outward opening doors are still used, however design changes in their structures and in the decks separating cargo and passenger areas have improved. Still despite this and other incidents; flying is by far the safest mode of transportation.
This problem isn't unique to large aircraft. My mother and brother were on an Air Ambulance flight to Sydney when the door blew open. One of the passengers hung out the doorway while my mother held on to his legs as he closed the door. Australian Air Ambulance planes are typically 12 to 20 seaters that ferry passengers from outback towns to larger centres for treatment as the nearest large hospital could be hundreds or even thousands of kilometers away.