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Hello. So I am hosting a Game of Thrones theme D&D, And I am in need of the troop amount from all 7 kingdoms at the start of season 2, You have said a few of these kingdoms however I need the rest, Help Please
xThe_noJx cared about the common people, was a very likable and intelligent person, and unlike Stannis he didn’t follow a foreign god that requires sacrifices. Renly was loved and admired by the people, Stannis was feared. It just depends on what you value more I guess idk.
@@brendan9868 I disagree, Renly would've been an awful king. He was "likable" because he was manipulative. In actuality he was a vain, self-absorbed rooster of a man. This is clear with his interactions with Brienne, where she thought he was being caring and kind when the truth of the matter was he was making fun of her just as much as the other nobles. Also the mere fact that he rose up against his own brother, who was rightfully before him in succession, and threatened to kill him over this shows that he is not a good man in the slightest. He would've been very similar to Robert, turning the country into his own private playground of dances, banquets and excess. Whereas Stannis, well, let me put it this way. When soldiers charge into battle against a force ten times the size of their own, screaming your name over and over, they aren't doing that because they fear you. Stannis was loved by the commoners because he pretty much treated everyone with the same attitude. Duty, justice, "a good act does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good". Stannis wasn't afraid to punish nobles, that would have been hugely refreshing for the commonfolk, compared to Renly who was literally "in bed" with the nobles, like the Tyrells. Renly manipulated nobles to his side, at the expense of the commoners, he would never stand up to nobles for commoners, whereas Stannis expected both noble and common to do their duty and was willing to punish those that failed to do so.
+AlHoresmi the reach as a whole can raise that, the Tyrells alone can only raise a fraction of that. Still your right they probably should have been better able to defend themselves.
AlHoresmi the TV show does not go off of these numbers as the lannisters have the ability to raise around 70,000 men. And anyway, the show is inconsistent with numbers anyway.
Vidarr Don’t really See much of Robert E Howard or HP Lovecraft’s influence tbh. Not enough Eldritch abominations, Cosmic nihilism, Cosmicism, Eldritch locations, or other weird things.
Indeed they are, but compared to the North who fight in a much harsher condition and weather, their much tougher and great fighters. Especially when the north had The Winter Wolves.
I know this is wrong but I keep reading the soldier count as being 15 men OR 20,000 men. Cersei: "How many people do do you command Jamie?" Jamie: "Hmmm it could be anywhere between 14 men or 15,000." Cersei: "..." Jamie: "Our house commands some weird respect, people are deserting and joining left and right."
Lmfao that is like in HoI4 where you can see the enemy's stats and sometimes it'll say ridiculous stuff like 1-150 divisions, except there it actually does mean the enemy country may have 1 division.
Crazy that when fully united (that’ll be the day!), Westeros would be able to raise an army of almost 400k men, well over if you include the Wildlings and Night’s Watch. Only a few real life nations (pre-gunpowder) managed to reach or surpass that, like late Rome (only due to inflation of their army at the expense of quality), the Gupta and of course China.
@@Truck_Kun_Driver However these massive armies were mostly not well equipped or really disciplined. Not saying the feudal armies of Westeros are much better disciplined, as they are no standing army as well, but their overall organization and their equipment would be far greater than that of the Chinese. In fact the Chinese often conscripted tens of thousands of peasants and other low class people into their armies, who made of the bulk of these 100k to 400k men.
Dorne wasn't even involved with the undead fight I have not seen a single dorne soldier. Ever since the defeat of the navy of dorne and greyjoy. They got defeated by Euron greyjoy. Their plan was to bring the sand snakes to sunspear and bring the armies up the lands to meet with them but they got ambushed that led to dorne having an prince to follow. Also that the reach is under influence of lannisters now after the siege of high garden
i wonder how Westeros would be like if Eddard stark never figured out that the children of Cersei were from incest and thereby not the true children of Robert Baratheon?
Maybe if Eddard Stark actually wasn't an idiot and sent more letters to other vassals. He's the hand of the king also presenting the unbroken seal letter to Stannis and explain "I, Eddard Stark was to rule as regent, but I believe there's schemes going on to where I will not be able to maintain my position at all due to Jofferys illegitimacy and that House Lannister will be involved with an scheme going on." Had he sent more letters to other regions The Reach, The Vale, Riverland, Doane and The North having them all prepare their armies, then also telling Stannis and Renly to combine forces and march upon kings landing to remove the fake king.
I'd like to see a video detailling the current armies of westeros, their size, objectives amd locations, as of the beginning of winds of winter. Is there such a thing?
gregan stark in the dragon danse war probably raised an army upper than 50k because of the 2 years of "conscriptions" his army was described as terrifying and really huge
lilmcoolique Δ I think he only raised his army from the Stark lands. In fire and blood it says his host was double the size of the tully one in Kong’s landing. The Tully host was around 7 to 8 thousand. So the stark would be 14 to q6 thousand. It wouldn’t make sense for the whole north to raise that much so it probably only the stark land.
Well the sources put at anywhere between 10000-20000, which is huge for the Dance, with only the armies of the Vale and the Hightowers competing, but nowhere near 50000. The armies of Westeros, for complicated reasons, were much smaller during the Dance than later on.
@@Ignisan_66 No you are wrong..You should watch WhyCreate,a youtube channel which explains the whole GOT map..In Essos there were,and there are huge empires with multiple times larger armies and territories than the kingdoms of Westeros.Apparently there are many more things you should learn about GOT than those in the series.
I just think the ratio of warriors to workers are much higher than other places because the book said that hey get most of their wealth from pillaging and they dont really grow crops either
GadflySwats There is a brilliant essay on how Jon con and GC took the castle and how things might progress if you are interested on wars and politics of asoiaf called blood of the conqueror.
+CivilizationEx I get that he was asking about it, but it would be great if you did not openly discuss things about the preview chapters. Some of us are withholding from reading them to get the full experience.
Like Eurasia compared Africa. There's a hypothesis that says being more geologically horizontal rather than vertical a continent is compared to the rotation of the planet determines how similar cultures will be because the climates they develop in will naturally be longer from east to west than they are from north to south.
I believe the North has the strongest army. When they march south in the aftermath of the Dance of the Dragons, all the other kingdoms refused to take up arms against them fearing the ferocity of the northern warriors. Then the Starks took control of King's Landing in what became known as the hour of the wolf when no one else would challenge them.
they didn't fight them because there was nothing to fight, Aegon II and Rhaenyra were dead. Nobody was fighting when the northmen arrived, they just came too late to the party
@@serkevanlannister9882 It clearly says in the book A World Of Ice and Fire, that the southerners did not want to engage the Northmen after seeing what the small group called the winter wolves could do. The winter wolves were a small force of a couple thousand horsemen who were so skilled at horseback riding, that they could charge pikemen and spearman formations without breaking strides. They were responsible for routing the Highgarden and Lannisport troops from the field. The southerners saw what a few thousand Northerners could do, and now an army of 40,000 of them has come down from the Neck wielding their longsword, axes, maces riding atop their shaggy horses. Rugged northmen familiar with battle and winter was just rolling in which meant their battle prowess would exceed the southerner's own.
@@yoshilorak5897 well u r wrong.... northerners are no where near mosr skilled fighters its knights of the vale they are most skilled after that its lainesters who are skilled and well occupied then stormlanders who are big tall and fierce it was 1vs1 but as whole army 1 lainesters 2 reach 3 vale 4 north 5 stromlands 6 dorne
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicolvocanoconiosis “Dukes” would be given to the high lords aka rulers of each kingdom e.g. Starks, Lannisters, Tyrell, etc. Lord will be given to ones beneath them such as Glover, Mormont, Tarly, etc. This way it helps differentiate and shows the chain of command and ranks the nobility, instead of just calling everyone “Lord”.
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicolvocanoconiosis I’m not saying it’s bad worldbuilding but having titles like Duke, Earl or Count would certainly help distinguish people and not overcomplicate things and make it more clear to the reader.
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicolvocanoconiosis I’m not saying change a whole lot just call the High lords aka Starks, Lannister, Tyrell, Aryn, Tully, Baratheon, and Greyjoy just Dukes it would simply make things better and more distinguishable. Everything else can remain the same.
The oficial title of the houses like the starks of winterfell is Lord Paramount of (insert region), so yes they do indeed have a diferent title. Tecnically
Compare the Iron Islands to the stormlands. The stormlands have 30k and the tiny little iron islands have 20k? Does not make any sense. But perhaps, the entire iron born population are all soldiers and that makes the number big.
rememeber that the islands have a culture with war, for exemple the stormlands still need farmers and small folk to stay in the region if war comes, but the islands words is "we do not sow" in the islands every man goes to war every little farmer joins the army and sometimes even womans join
Most agricultural societies can only put about 1% of their population in the field (If the Stormlands can raise 30k men, their population would be about 3 mil). But the Iron Islands has little farm land, and subsequently a raider culture, so they probably have about 4-5% of their population under arms (so 20k from about 0.5 mil).
Some say ned or robb caused the down fall of the starks, others blame the freys and boltons. Hell you might even put the blame on neds older brother who was trained to lead being killed by the mad king. But it truely was little finger who started the downfall of the north. He started everything because he convinced the starks that the lannisters wanted to kill brann, if it wasnt for littlefinger there would have been a good chance that robbs army could have doubled or even trippled in number due to the vale joining the war for the tullys and starks. Lets say that with the knights of the vale hed have about 45000 men in his army down in the riverlands, and lets say robb still executes karstark and doesnt marry the frey girl hed have something in the 35000 range of man most of whom would be expert cavalry. With his new army robb could probably have done a type of blitzkrieg and maybe have recaptured jamie and maybe even have dealt with tywin. All of this meant that there would have been no red wedding since he wouldnt need the freys. Robb could have won like that, he could have gone north and deal with the iron born and wildlings and protect his new realm (maybe the ruverlands and vale included) hed be in a strong enough position that the freys, boltons, lannisters and even baratheons couldnt touch him. Tl;dr: blame little finger for robbs death
A little grudge on an entire paramount house over the hand of a woman of a foster paramount house. The Game of Thrones really had to start with a treacherous plot innit. But Petyr would not place his skinny fingers himself in a plot that harms his beloved and her children he solely desires
I love how thorough your content is, but I think the way you jump around the timeline in your explanations is a bit abrupt at times, making it confusing to know which century your talking about. Food for thought for your future videos!
I was midway through and I was like this is a repost... then I realized why you reposted. lol BTW did you ever do a LOTR Army size video? I have always been curious of that
The numbers given in LOTR for army size is staggering and not very realistic. For example, the battle of peleanor fields (the battle of gondor) had around 5,000 men in the city, 6,000 rohirim, and aragorn leading a force of some 20,000 up from the south (replaced by the ghosts in the movie). The orcs had around 20,000 with the easterlings having 18,000 and the men of harrod (not sure I spelled that right) having another 15,000. I got these numbers largely by guessing since Tolkien only actually tallied the rohirim at just under 6,000. I calculated the forces of sauron by the line that the easterlings outnumbered the rohirim 3 fold at the start of the battle and that each faction (orcs, easterlings and men of harrod) had around the same number with my guess that orcs are the most numerous and the harrodrim the least since sauron sees orcs as disposable and the harrodrim have the olyphants
@@reinsaxony4623 "loyal" The last book made a pretty big deal out pretty much all the Bolton bannermen hating their guts. Only the Freys are diehard loyalists everyone else will have no trouble switching sides as soon as the tide begins to turn.
in the show tywin gives Jamie 30 - 35 thousand troops splitting there forces in half. Meaning they had about 60 -70 thousand troops during the war of the "Five Kings". Staford lannister recruited levies and took on troops that had routed after Jamie's defeat at the whispering wood. I'm guessing he had around 15 - 20 thousand men. Meaning the total possibility for the Lannister forces being anything from 35 - 100. This is also including the garrison forces at kings landing and the forces given to Ser Greagor clagane ((he had around 500 troops))
The show made many mistakes.. This is one of them.. He had 35 k in casterly rock and then gave 15 k to Jamie and kept 20 k. He didn't give 35 to Jamie and there werent 60 k or more
@@Urov. Probaly 1 million undead troops along with dead animals and spiders ice dragons and other cratures they are much more powerful in book than tv show
@7.38 When you say Tywin was busy "organizing" the Red Wedding, what you really mean is he condoned it in secret while Lothar Frey (steward at the Twins and of Blackwood descend) came up with the idea and organized it, right?
The crusader kings mod is probably better than any standalone game we will get for the series. It often feels like ck2 was made entirely for the game of thrones universe because of how well it flows and how good it feels. Every expansion seems to add features that integrate extremely well with it. You can get yourself a valyrian steel sword and name it whatever you want, take dragons, manage the politics of westeros or just your tiny holdings in some random chunk of the vale, wage war in a way that feels so incredibly perfect for the universe. You can build yourself a dynasty with a reputation as honorable and loyal men, or destroy your house's reputation through scheming and backstabbing and murder. It's honestly such an incredible experience for a fan of paradox games and a song of ice and fire and I cannot recommend it enough.
at around 8:30 you say that Stannis attacked King's landing with 20,000 soldiers. This is false. I just read the books and his vanguard was composed of 5,000 soldiers with many sources saying that the rest of his army totaled 50,000. This is because numerous houses from the reach sided with Stannis and he should of soundly won at blackwater had Tywin and the Tyrells not (magically) secretly marched on King's landing.
No he had 20,000. Only about 15K soldiers from Renly's army went with him as the majority of Renly's army was from the reach and almost none of them joined him. The other 5K was from his original force from Dragonstone. Only half a dozen reach houses joined him and their combined forces were nowhere near the size of the main Tyrell army. They also didn't magically march there. The Tyrells were at Bitterbrige and when Littlefinger proposed the marriage between Margery and Joffery they marched to Tumbler's fall where they met up with Tywin and sailed the Blackwater rush until they neared Kingslanding, where they then rode for the city.
If you were Wondering, according to this video could before the start of the War of the Five Kings in the books Westeros gather up to 456 000 men. But I guess Bronn and 20 good men are enough.
Well the show only has a fraction of that in battles. It would have made more sense for Rob to march south with 40,000+ soldiers instead of 19,500 because there would have been enough soldiers still north to defeat the Greyjoy's and the Bolton's.
I think it would've taken too long to raise 40000 Robb was aiming to save his father at the start and when the iron born attacked the northmen that remained were probably spread around the kingdom so they wouldn't have been able to defend themselves from the iron born
What I can’t understand if why was rob having difficulty getting more men? Yea Freys had 4K but all of the river lands could add to robbs army ? In the books he’s king in the north and riverlands? Where the rest of those 41k or at least half that? A quarter of that?
How do you figure the Reach and Westerlands can raise 150,000 if they only managed to raise 55,00O men together against the Targaryens? And yes I know the hightowers were absent but i think that’s just about only 10,000.
The figures of 50,000 and 100,000 are assuming ideal conditions, where they can truly scrape the bottom by conscripting every fighting age man and mobilizing there entire country. However, realistically there are only so many troops you can raise until your armies are forced into combat as time is of the essence. If you spend too much time on mobilization, your armies have to get into possition before your kingdom is overrun, especially if you are the defender in the conflict . Not to mention thousands who will avoid conscription and desertion. Therefore in practice their strength only ends up being a fraction of what is theoretically possible.
@laurinkaebelmann6373 *Roman army of the Imperial era, Principate specifically. The armies of the mid-republic, such as during the Punic Wars, were much, much larger and much less professional, and could be up to like 5-10% of the population. You are right, Feudalism means the lords are incentivized to send as few men as possible to preserve their own strength, and the logistics needed to maintain a large army is non-existent, so only a fraction of the available troops could be called up. This is why France, a country of 17 million, could only raise an army of around 30000 max for one battle during the Hundred Years War.
The armies around the time of Aegon's conquest were much smaller, same with during the Dance of the Dragons. This is applicable to real history where at the Battle of Bouvines in 1214, where it was around 7000 French against 9000 Germans, Flemish, and English. But later at Crecy in 1346, it was 25000 French against 12000 English. The numbers are slightly disputed of course but you get the point, armies got larger towards the end of the Middle Ages.
In the show I think it goes like this The Reach: 80-100k The Westerlands: 60k Dorne: 50k The Vale: 45k The Stormlands: 30k The North: 20k The Riverlands: 15-20k The Iron Islands: 10k Dragonstone: 5k I know some people will think that the North has many more men, but this is what I think.
There is no way dorne could reach that number, for example during robert rebellion doran martell could only send like 10k number. This is due the fact that much of dorne is desert region and barren salty land without major river running. Their naval power is also minimum meaning that there is not much trade focusing on food import. Vale should be second to the reach since even if its mountainous like westerland (more steep) the region were vast than westerland and described as fertile due to having volcanic soil. Stormland too should located in lower end number, the region is small and just consisted of forest meaning not much land for farming and no river. riverland having such number is more make sense since the region must be fertile due to the amount of small river and a great river (mean a natural irrigation). It's all boil down to the farming and trade power to support population subsistence. Anyway i want to hear your reasoning behind those numbers.
Stannis Baratheon what!?!?. How can you have an opinion without being able to defend it!?! That is not an opinion, that is just some random thing you heard in the show
Stannis Baratheon we just wanted to know how did you get those numbers... and you say "It's just what I think" without any reason at all. Thanks m8 really helpful 😐
Here's the way I always thought of it (based on both show and book) realistically: North: 20k Riverlands: 10k Vale: 15k Crownlands: 20k Westerlands: 40k Reach: 55k Dorne: 30k Stormlands: 35k I know this isn't exactly book accurate but I always thought it would be more realistic if the numbers were this way
why the riverland have such very low number?? the region is quite fertile, lots of river for irrigation and why dorne have almost three times number from the book when it was hinted that the region could only field as small as 10k due to the arid climate. The vale and the reach should have the highest number since both region are fertile, The westerland depend on the great lord ability to field more mercenary i guess so agriculture potential as the sole factor might not do the justice.
Of course Agriculture production is at least a major contributor, i am not sure what do you mean by that. Reach could provide more armies because the region is the bread basket of westeros. Meanwhile you put dorne having more number than the vale, despite the vale is being known for their chivalrous tradition and second in term of agricultural production to the reach and dorne is not just arid but in fact the smallest region in westeros.
Eissa Sinéad I thought that because the vale had a long tradition of a cavalry-based military and a large number of nights that their standing army of regulars wouldn't be as big...I'm not gonna say you're wrong, I always love conversations about conflicting views of fan mythology, they're very interesting debates! :)
Jasper Lane Geography and the fact that their Lord at the time was old and sick so his son, Edmure, took command and weakened himself in an effort to protect all of the River lands against Gregor's raiding. Plus, the Riverlands itself was split in half with Tywin tacking the eastern half and jaime the west. Also the small folk began fleeing towards King's Landing, which meant that many men who would otherwise be given a pike and helmet and shield were fleeing from the conflict.
Dylan Lowers That would explain why the Lannister would be able to beat the Tullys, I can except that. But for Jamie to win battle after battle untill riverrun without lossing any substantial forces is mine bogling, and it's not just that, it seemed like Rob didn't lose a single guy when he lifted the siege of riverun. I just wish GRRM went into more detail with the wars and battles cuz as it stands it seems like a mess to me.
Jasper Lane Well Jaime defeats a far smaller force at the golden tooth, then defeats Edmure. We don't know how exactly these battles happened. However because the pov characters only know the obscure details, their information being days,weeks or months old the reader is only privy to those numbers. Jaime likely lost upwards of a thousand, but you have to remember that moral is also important. Jaime's men have won a battle already and are led by a great warrior, high moral, less likely to break and run, which is when most casualties are suffered. Edmure's forces are weakened by the raising, upset that their villages and castles are being sacked and they know that their army at the golden tooth has been routed. They are more likely to break and run if they think they can't win and that they need to go home. As for Robbie, the casualties are probably not too bad as a third of the lannisters host outside riverrun escapes and doesn't join battle at all. Combined with the element of surprise they likely loose between five hundred and a thousand. However the Tully men supplement Robb's cavalry and bring them back to relitively the same number.
Jasper Lane when Cat is with evenly he says something like your son came with 20k adding the Tully gave him 30k and cat thinks something like war has diminished those numbers a lot. Also Bolton comes back north with 4l northern so a lot were lost.
@@JasperLane tho in reality the lannisters wouldn't have beaten the Tullies so easily on their own land. It's called the river lands for an reason natural moats and such they would've been prepared
its very hilly, and bastards born there have the surname "hill". My guess, is that prob a big portion is too hilly to be propperly habitable. Who knows, 50 k is still very impressive
@D Anemon They could barely muster just under 20k, with like almost every northern lord joining them. Even if the potential is up to 40-50k, I highly doubt they would reach it, and if they somehow had enough time to do it, half of them would be probably untrained peasants like stafford's army
Can we just talk about how this how ridiculous it is that in the show Mance had an army of 100k? Like, even if every single man and woman was fighting, it's insane that that many people even live north of the wall.
I think Mance's total convoy had 100k people in it, but only around 30-40k of them were fighters. They had children, mothers, old and sick people mixed in as well, who would be non-combatants.
If the Starks can raise 45 thousand, why did they ride with 20 thousand and leave the North defenceless. I’m pretty sure the Riverlands and Iron Islands arn’t that’s sting either.
@@stannisbaratheon286 The Riverlands can raise way more than that. The land is full of rivers (duh) making it very fertile and so high population and export. The reason they do not seem so strong is because they were surprise attacked by the Lannisters. They did not get enough time to muster all their armies to make a joined force. Hence they lost a lot of men quickly. Also the Riverlands connects the North, the Vale, the Westerlands, the Crownlands and the Reach. So they can earn a lot of money from taxing trade.
Isn't it called Lord Paramount and not Vassal Lord? Because eceryone except the king is a vassal, so this makes no sense as a title as the lesser lords are also vassal lords.
So. The kingdom (empire) of westeros, can raise anywhere from 350.000 - 410.000 men! I don't think you know how crazy that is for a medieval state. A large army was at 10.000 and 20.000 was massive. You pretty much don't ever se an army larger than 30.000 at all. France, with a population of 17.000.000 raised I would say. Max 50.000 at any given moment (though not in 1 army). And that was 1/340 of their population. If westeros can get (my estimate of) 375.000 in any given moment, then they may very well have a population of 173.000.000. Which is more than late medieval china in our world. INSANE!
The 100,000 Was the full force of the reach and stormlands United under renly. After Renly's death, The stormlords and a handful of reach lords joined stannis, so he had about 21,000 men (16000 from Renly's men and 5000 from stannis' original host) in total when he attacked Kingslanding.
Wait a minute. 8:52 -"while a young man named Aegon Targaryen claiming to be the son of Rhaegar Targaryen invading Stormsland with the Golden Company" Are you kidding me?
Yes, this is an updated version of that video, remade with new audio, graphics and info. The old one is now unlisted but you can still find it if you want too by going into my playlists.
LOTR at any time period would absolutely stomp the GOT world. Particularly if it was a First or Second Age army that came. It’s not even remotely close.. the Dragons from LOTR shit on the Dragons from GOT. Numenoran Men have enhanced speed and strength over normal men. The elves do as well.
The 7 kingdoms existed before Aegon's conquest. After the conquest they were split up into 9 territories, but one of those was the crownlands which was administered by the King. So there were 8 vassal lords that ran the other territories.
North:18K Riverlands:19K Vale:22K Stormlands:19K Dorne:15K Reach:70K Westerlands:45K Iron Islands:12K Crownlands:8K Just my guess as to their standing armies before TWOTFK
The North had more than 18,000 when they marched south so I'd say closer to 30,000, along with the vale and dorne having the same. Also the westerlands has near 60,000 as a maximum as they were able to gather another host at oxcross before Robb attacked them. The riverlands probably about 40,000 max as even with their early defeats and many lords going back to their castles Edmure still was able to marshal 11,000 men and that doesn't include the freys. The iron isles about 15,000-20,000 but that is the most difficult in my opinion to work out. and the crown lands probably about 15,000 max not including the goldcloaks. Also the reach should have about 90,000-100,000 due to having old town and they didn't even commit their forces or at least not all of them, and in I think storm when Tyrion is told that there are 80,000 tyrells in the city. Plus the arbor doesn't get involved until the Redwyn twins are safe. But it is really hard to estimate with George being a bit vague here and there.
Dylan Lowers Nah fam. In Catlyn's chapters when she visits Renly she says the North has a standing army of 18K. The nobles loyal to Renly estimate that they have 34K soldiers but Cat thinks they only have 24K.
Dwayne The Rock Well the kingdoms of westerosi don't have standing armies but I think I know what you mean by that. Catylen is thinking of the northern forces that were raised, meaning gathered by Robb at winterfell and marched south. That force is 18-19,000 strong. After Robb defeats Jaime Edmure allows the Riverlords to go back to their castles and attend to their lands. The reason that Renly estimated their forces to be half of his infantry force is because he is going off the information that Robb and Edmure have marshalled their full forces at Riverrun. If you have not read A dance with Dragons or Feast, then Spoilers: Wyman Manderly has 6,000 men gathered from his own forces and the other houses east of the white knife. Plus the 500 umbers, 500 karstarks and 5000 Bolton men, the 3,000 mountain clansmen, the troops of Lady Dustin the north still can gather another 14-16,000 men. Also there are 500 men from the siege of winterfell who were able to flee the battle when Ramsay attacked Rodrik, who had been able to gather 2,000 men to take back the castle. Now I think that the north can gather 35,000 men at the maximum definitely.
The North is massive, being really hard to assemble its army, taking too much time to do so. Robb was trying to be as quick as posible, because he was trying to liberate his father and sisters, so there wasn't too much time available to gather the entire northern military potential.
Robb wanted to apply a much more offensive strategy by rapidly mobilizing and catching the lannisters off guard. (Think Blitzkrieg but without tanks and not quite to the same scale).Therefore he couldn't spend too much time on raising troops.
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*This video is truly awesome and most informative thank you so much!!!!*
Hello. So I am hosting a Game of Thrones theme D&D, And I am in need of the troop amount from all 7 kingdoms at the start of season 2, You have said a few of these kingdoms however I need the rest, Help Please
Stannis, the *Rightful Heir* to the Iron Throne. God Damned Right.
xThe_noJx Nope.
Renly would’ve been a better king
@@brendan9868 Why do you say so?
xThe_noJx cared about the common people, was a very likable and intelligent person, and unlike Stannis he didn’t follow a foreign god that requires sacrifices.
Renly was loved and admired by the people, Stannis was feared. It just depends on what you value more I guess idk.
@@brendan9868 I disagree, Renly would've been an awful king. He was "likable" because he was manipulative. In actuality he was a vain, self-absorbed rooster of a man. This is clear with his interactions with Brienne, where she thought he was being caring and kind when the truth of the matter was he was making fun of her just as much as the other nobles.
Also the mere fact that he rose up against his own brother, who was rightfully before him in succession, and threatened to kill him over this shows that he is not a good man in the slightest. He would've been very similar to Robert, turning the country into his own private playground of dances, banquets and excess.
Whereas Stannis, well, let me put it this way. When soldiers charge into battle against a force ten times the size of their own, screaming your name over and over, they aren't doing that because they fear you. Stannis was loved by the commoners because he pretty much treated everyone with the same attitude. Duty, justice, "a good act does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good". Stannis wasn't afraid to punish nobles, that would have been hugely refreshing for the commonfolk, compared to Renly who was literally "in bed" with the nobles, like the Tyrells. Renly manipulated nobles to his side, at the expense of the commoners, he would never stand up to nobles for commoners, whereas Stannis expected both noble and common to do their duty and was willing to punish those that failed to do so.
This video confirms that Stannis truly is the mannis.
Dennis the menace
Jetty why is he called “stannis the mannis”. I don’t get it???
@@Luke_YTS i think its similar to the way people call stan lee "stan the man" and call stannis "stannis the mannis"
Because Stanis roasts people all the time
@@Luke_YTS Cause he’s awesome and we love him. Pre character assassination/book Stannis that is
Please answer me one simple question. Where the hell was Tyrell's 100k doomstack when the Lanister forces sacked Highgarden in S7?
+AlHoresmi the reach as a whole can raise that, the Tyrells alone can only raise a fraction of that. Still your right they probably should have been better able to defend themselves.
AlHoresmi the TV show does not go off of these numbers as the lannisters have the ability to raise around 70,000 men. And anyway, the show is inconsistent with numbers anyway.
AlHoresmi The Reach was divided so that's why the couldn't raise that much, also because nowadays the writing is getting really bad.
AlHoresmi they lost the Tarleys
AlHoresmi The Tyrell Army had 80k not 100k, Renly had 20k and combining that with Renly it added up to 100k
i like how u always mention stannis as rightful heir
crazy to think all of this came from the mind of a single person
pales in comparison to tolkien
Nah i think the world of ice and fire lore is a lot more interesting for me. But opinions are different
Vidarr Don’t really See much of Robert E Howard or HP Lovecraft’s influence tbh.
Not enough Eldritch abominations, Cosmic nihilism, Cosmicism, Eldritch locations, or other weird things.
Failure Great hardly original to be honest. But a great, great story told nonetheless
The story itself borrows a lot from English history
I just really wish we had a Game of Thrones Total War.
There is some medieval 2 mods of varying succes. If I remember age of petty kings was pretty neat
Agreed
their is a pretty good game of thrones mod for total war attila
Best GoT game is the GoT mod of CK2, I highly recommend it
@@cecelluz what’s CK2??
The Vale is a hidden power, people really sleep on them but they are so strong
Indeed they are, but compared to the North who fight in a much harsher condition and weather, their much tougher and great fighters. Especially when the north had The Winter Wolves.
I know this is wrong but I keep reading the soldier count as being 15 men OR 20,000 men.
Cersei: "How many people do do you command Jamie?"
Jamie: "Hmmm it could be anywhere between 14 men or 15,000."
Cersei: "..."
Jamie: "Our house commands some weird respect, people are deserting and joining left and right."
Steven Galiniak won RUclips for me
Lmfao that is like in HoI4 where you can see the enemy's stats and sometimes it'll say ridiculous stuff like 1-150 divisions, except there it actually does mean the enemy country may have 1 division.
Correction: At 9:51 it should say AC, not BC.
Crazy that when fully united (that’ll be the day!), Westeros would be able to raise an army of almost 400k men, well over if you include the Wildlings and Night’s Watch. Only a few real life nations (pre-gunpowder) managed to reach or surpass that, like late Rome (only due to inflation of their army at the expense of quality), the Gupta and of course China.
The ancient Chinese too, if I'm correct. There are many battles at their time when both sides have like 200-300k men in their whole army.
@@Truck_Kun_Driver However these massive armies were mostly not well equipped or really disciplined. Not saying the feudal armies of Westeros are much better disciplined, as they are no standing army as well, but their overall organization and their equipment would be far greater than that of the Chinese. In fact the Chinese often conscripted tens of thousands of peasants and other low class people into their armies, who made of the bulk of these 100k to 400k men.
Lewis Bean yeah but this is all make believe, I can imagine a fake continent with an army of 1 million if I wanted.
Didn't the persian empire raise well beyond that number?
Westeros is a whole continent united also The Roman army would be of a better quality then the Forces of the Tullys or the Martells
i feel like that the fact the reach an dorne still have 100k men to fight the undead will be forgotten in season 8
true
Dorne wasn't even involved with the undead fight I have not seen a single dorne soldier. Ever since the defeat of the navy of dorne and greyjoy.
They got defeated by Euron greyjoy. Their plan was to bring the sand snakes to sunspear and bring the armies up the lands to meet with them but they got ambushed that led to dorne having an prince to follow.
Also that the reach is under influence of lannisters now after the siege of high garden
The show goes with different numbers for the armys the numbers in the books are much higher
The North should settle the wildlings, they would make good warriors if they get better equipment.
they all just need to start doing the sex stuff and hope it takes about 16 years to make it to winterfell
Lmfao
that would be hard bc alot of northern houses dislike wildlings because of there raids
OH yeah it's that simple you moron, they haven't been sworn enemies for thousands of years for no reason idiot.
Ivan Guderian why are you so angry over a simple misunderstanding
i wonder how Westeros would be like if Eddard stark never figured out that the children of Cersei were from incest and thereby not the true children of Robert Baratheon?
He will sided with joffrey
Maybe if Eddard Stark actually wasn't an idiot and sent more letters to other vassals. He's the hand of the king also presenting the unbroken seal letter to Stannis and explain "I, Eddard Stark was to rule as regent, but I believe there's schemes going on to where I will not be able to maintain my position at all due to Jofferys illegitimacy and that House Lannister will be involved with an scheme going on."
Had he sent more letters to other regions
The Reach, The Vale, Riverland, Doane and The North having them all prepare their armies, then also telling Stannis and Renly to combine forces and march upon kings landing to remove the fake king.
@@koreancowboy42 In the books i believe he didn't write a letter to stannis
I'd like to see a video detailling the current armies of westeros, their size, objectives amd locations, as of the beginning of winds of winter. Is there such a thing?
gregan stark in the dragon danse war probably raised an army upper than 50k because of the 2 years of "conscriptions" his army was described as terrifying and really huge
lilmcoolique Δ I think he only raised his army from the Stark lands. In fire and blood it says his host was double the size of the tully one in Kong’s landing. The Tully host was around 7 to 8 thousand. So the stark would be 14 to q6 thousand. It wouldn’t make sense for the whole north to raise that much so it probably only the stark land.
Well the sources put at anywhere between 10000-20000, which is huge for the Dance, with only the armies of the Vale and the Hightowers competing, but nowhere near 50000.
The armies of Westeros, for complicated reasons, were much smaller during the Dance than later on.
Could you make a video about armies of essos?
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU THINK HE CAN DO THAT< HE HAS BARELY ANY INFO FOR EVEN WESTEROS
It will probably have to be a series rather than a single video.
@Vice TOLUCT I am a racist
@@Ignisan_66 No you are wrong..You should watch WhyCreate,a youtube channel which explains the whole GOT map..In Essos there were,and there are huge empires with multiple times larger armies and territories than the kingdoms of Westeros.Apparently there are many more things you should learn about GOT than those in the series.
If theres more info about armies beyond the Bone Mountains, that d be great
The iron islands must be crowded lol
They do not sow so they do not need as much place as other kingdoms
I just think the ratio of warriors to workers are much higher than other places because the book said that hey get most of their wealth from pillaging and they dont really grow crops either
I mean even a small country like Bangladesh can fit 100M despite its very small land area.
The way army works in the tv show. If you kill 4 named Dornished character. It gets rid of the whole Dornish army lol
CivEx: The Golden Company has only taken Griffin's Roost no? They're just marching on Storm's End at the end of ADWD.
It's revealed in the preview chapters from TWoW that they've taken Storm's End.
EEEEEE That's HUGE! Thanks CivEx!
GadflySwats There is a brilliant essay on how Jon con and GC took the castle and how things might progress if you are interested on wars and politics of asoiaf called blood of the conqueror.
+CivilizationEx I get that he was asking about it, but it would be great if you did not openly discuss things about the preview chapters. Some of us are withholding from reading them to get the full experience.
Hey guys, if I'm not mistaken, there was a theory that Aegon is actually a Blackfyre. Got some info on that?
I think the largest empires would have been on Essos.
Just like Asia
Like Eurasia compared Africa. There's a hypothesis that says being more geologically horizontal rather than vertical a continent is compared to the rotation of the planet determines how similar cultures will be because the climates they develop in will naturally be longer from east to west than they are from north to south.
@@Ken19700 eurasia had bigger empires than Africa wdym
No doubt it would be the Dothraki who has the largest army in the GOT world
And that the Dothraki rules on what were once lands belonging to the Valyrian Freehold, the Ghiscari Empire, and the Golden Empire of Dawn
this video clears so many things from the show. now the numbers add up
Stannis Baratheon is my god.
Özgür Yurttaş Good
*STANNIS IS MY KING BUT HE'S ONLY A MAN*
SACRILEGE TO R'HLORR! BURN THE HERETIC!
Stannis the Manis
Justin Roberts Why do people like Stannis? I genuinely don't get it.
All hail Stannis. The one true king!
Indeed. Robert has no legitimate children therefore the crown should be given to Stannis.
8:34 did you mean “but was defeated by Tyrion Lannister at the battle of Blackwater....”
Tywin*
Well if Tywin wouldnt showed up, Stannis was about to take Kingslanding
I believe the North has the strongest army. When they march south in the aftermath of the Dance of the Dragons, all the other kingdoms refused to take up arms against them fearing the ferocity of the northern warriors. Then the Starks took control of King's Landing in what became known as the hour of the wolf when no one else would challenge them.
Can you give me a source of this story?I thunk it's when the stark lord was made hand but resigned after one day
they didn't fight them because there was nothing to fight, Aegon II and Rhaenyra were dead.
Nobody was fighting when the northmen arrived, they just came too late to the party
@@serkevanlannister9882
It clearly says in the book A World Of Ice and Fire, that the southerners did not want to engage the Northmen after seeing what the small group called the winter wolves could do. The winter wolves were a small force of a couple thousand horsemen who were so skilled at horseback riding, that they could charge pikemen and spearman formations without breaking strides. They were responsible for routing the Highgarden and Lannisport troops from the field.
The southerners saw what a few thousand Northerners could do, and now an army of 40,000 of them has come down from the Neck wielding their longsword, axes, maces riding atop their shaggy horses. Rugged northmen familiar with battle and winter was just rolling in which meant their battle prowess would exceed the southerner's own.
@@yoshilorak5897 well u r wrong.... northerners are no where near mosr skilled fighters
its knights of the vale
they are most skilled after that its lainesters who are skilled and well occupied then stormlanders who are big tall and fierce it was 1vs1
but as whole army
1 lainesters
2 reach
3 vale
4 north
5 stromlands
6 dorne
@@hiddendagger7291 Oh mate you are soo ignorant 😂😂😂,placing the Reach as 2nd best
This was a good one! Got me into CivEx the last version of this...
Great video, well edited and you speak very fluently, to the point, highly informative. Learnt a lot, thanks.
8:21 Stannis be like: I approve
In my opinion they should called Vassal Lords, “Dukes” instead.
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicolvocanoconiosis “Dukes” would be given to the high lords aka rulers of each kingdom e.g. Starks, Lannisters, Tyrell, etc. Lord will be given to ones beneath them such as Glover, Mormont, Tarly, etc. This way it helps differentiate and shows the chain of command and ranks the nobility, instead of just calling everyone “Lord”.
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicolvocanoconiosis I’m not saying it’s bad worldbuilding but having titles like Duke, Earl or Count would certainly help distinguish people and not overcomplicate things and make it more clear to the reader.
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicolvocanoconiosis I’m not saying change a whole lot just call the High lords aka Starks, Lannister, Tyrell, Aryn, Tully, Baratheon, and Greyjoy just Dukes it would simply make things better and more distinguishable. Everything else can remain the same.
True, it could be more clear, but I like the unique names
The oficial title of the houses like the starks of winterfell is Lord Paramount of (insert region), so yes they do indeed have a diferent title. Tecnically
I enjoyed the video! I do find it kind of hard to imagine that the Iron Islands can raise 20k men to fight given how small their territory is.
T Robbo I think they can only raise 10k
Stannis Baratheon that’s still decently big, and more realistic. Plus they have a strong navy and in the books euron.
Compare the Iron Islands to the stormlands. The stormlands have 30k and the tiny little iron islands have 20k? Does not make any sense. But perhaps, the entire iron born population are all soldiers and that makes the number big.
rememeber that the islands have a culture with war, for exemple the stormlands still need farmers and small folk to stay in the region if war comes, but the islands words is "we do not sow" in the islands every man goes to war every little farmer joins the army and sometimes even womans join
Most agricultural societies can only put about 1% of their population in the field (If the Stormlands can raise 30k men, their population would be about 3 mil).
But the Iron Islands has little farm land, and subsequently a raider culture, so they probably have about 4-5% of their population under arms (so 20k from about 0.5 mil).
Some say ned or robb caused the down fall of the starks, others blame the freys and boltons. Hell you might even put the blame on neds older brother who was trained to lead being killed by the mad king. But it truely was little finger who started the downfall of the north. He started everything because he convinced the starks that the lannisters wanted to kill brann, if it wasnt for littlefinger there would have been a good chance that robbs army could have doubled or even trippled in number due to the vale joining the war for the tullys and starks. Lets say that with the knights of the vale hed have about 45000 men in his army down in the riverlands, and lets say robb still executes karstark and doesnt marry the frey girl hed have something in the 35000 range of man most of whom would be expert cavalry. With his new army robb could probably have done a type of blitzkrieg and maybe have recaptured jamie and maybe even have dealt with tywin. All of this meant that there would have been no red wedding since he wouldnt need the freys. Robb could have won like that, he could have gone north and deal with the iron born and wildlings and protect his new realm (maybe the ruverlands and vale included) hed be in a strong enough position that the freys, boltons, lannisters and even baratheons couldnt touch him.
Tl;dr: blame little finger for robbs death
Littlefinger was probably indirectly responsible but Tywin's role was much larger.
A little grudge on an entire paramount house over the hand of a woman of a foster paramount house. The Game of Thrones really had to start with a treacherous plot innit. But Petyr would not place his skinny fingers himself in a plot that harms his beloved and her children he solely desires
Excellent video.
Those armies will mean nothing when I arrive to take what is mine.
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CivilizationEx armies of essos
Oh nice you updaded my favorite ASOIAF video of yours.
The crownlands should be able to raise much much more than 10-15,000 men considering half a million to a million people live in King’s landing alone.
No1important88 the population is considered to be 1.5 million people if 1 percent of a population can fight then that’s around 15k
@@MM-xm5vx hello 3 year old comment. Usually the max toe to war population at medieval wars was 5%. So it should be higher
Please do a video on the First Dornish War and the Conquest of Dorne.
I love how thorough your content is, but I think the way you jump around the timeline in your explanations is a bit abrupt at times, making it confusing to know which century your talking about. Food for thought for your future videos!
I was midway through and I was like this is a repost... then I realized why you reposted. lol BTW did you ever do a LOTR Army size video? I have always been curious of that
The numbers given in LOTR for army size is staggering and not very realistic. For example, the battle of peleanor fields (the battle of gondor) had around 5,000 men in the city, 6,000 rohirim, and aragorn leading a force of some 20,000 up from the south (replaced by the ghosts in the movie). The orcs had around 20,000 with the easterlings having 18,000 and the men of harrod (not sure I spelled that right) having another 15,000.
I got these numbers largely by guessing since Tolkien only actually tallied the rohirim at just under 6,000. I calculated the forces of sauron by the line that the easterlings outnumbered the rohirim 3 fold at the start of the battle and that each faction (orcs, easterlings and men of harrod) had around the same number with my guess that orcs are the most numerous and the harrodrim the least since sauron sees orcs as disposable and the harrodrim have the olyphants
@@xqiuvmah How are those numbers staggering? They seem very understated if anything.
So the North still has about 25K troops then as of winds of winter? That's actually a lot more than I expected.
If they have like an entire year to gather all of it... Not to mention, half of it are loyal to the Boltons.
@@reinsaxony4623 "loyal" The last book made a pretty big deal out pretty much all the Bolton bannermen hating their guts.
Only the Freys are diehard loyalists everyone else will have no trouble switching sides as soon as the tide begins to turn.
@@Alexander-tu3iv Ryswell , Dustin ???
in the show tywin gives Jamie 30 - 35 thousand troops splitting there forces in half. Meaning they had about 60 -70 thousand troops during the war of the "Five Kings". Staford lannister recruited levies and took on troops that had routed after Jamie's defeat at the whispering wood. I'm guessing he had around 15 - 20 thousand men. Meaning the total possibility for the Lannister forces being anything from 35 - 100. This is also including the garrison forces at kings landing and the forces given to Ser Greagor clagane ((he had around 500 troops))
The show made many mistakes.. This is one of them.. He had 35 k in casterly rock and then gave 15 k to Jamie and kept 20 k. He didn't give 35 to Jamie and there werent 60 k or more
@@darthsidious8703 Lies Mr Emeperor lies!
@@the_bigsteve3516 But he's right
I cant wait to see "The Hour of the Wolf" in House of the Dragon! Its what im looking forward to most.
Dorne and the Erie didn't get near enough love in the show. They are way more badass than people give them credit for!
that Tully fish looks like a xenomorph chest buster
You forgot the army of the dead in the true TRUE north xD
isee like 200k I think
All thralls who disintegrate when the night king dies
@@Urov. Probaly 1 million undead troops along with dead animals and spiders ice dragons and other cratures they are much more powerful in book than tv show
I really love the northern soldier unniform i would pay for someone to make one and give it to me
Eu só vim parabenizar por avisar dos spoilers. O mundo precisa mais pessoas assim
VIVA BRASIL
Thank You for all these greate videos. I love them.
another great video. keep up the good work
6:15 The Westerlands look like a witch with a big nose lol
@7.38 When you say Tywin was busy "organizing" the Red Wedding, what you really mean is he condoned it in secret while Lothar Frey (steward at the Twins and of Blackwood descend) came up with the idea and organized it, right?
I want a paradox (eu4 like) or total war game on it so bad now...
There is a crusader kings mod
And a game of thrones mod for m2tw and attila
The crusader kings mod is probably better than any standalone game we will get for the series. It often feels like ck2 was made entirely for the game of thrones universe because of how well it flows and how good it feels. Every expansion seems to add features that integrate extremely well with it. You can get yourself a valyrian steel sword and name it whatever you want, take dragons, manage the politics of westeros or just your tiny holdings in some random chunk of the vale, wage war in a way that feels so incredibly perfect for the universe. You can build yourself a dynasty with a reputation as honorable and loyal men, or destroy your house's reputation through scheming and backstabbing and murder. It's honestly such an incredible experience for a fan of paradox games and a song of ice and fire and I cannot recommend it enough.
@@vexced8753 Can I copy this when talking about the mod?
Agent58 yeah of course lol
at around 8:30 you say that Stannis attacked King's landing with 20,000 soldiers. This is false. I just read the books and his vanguard was composed of 5,000 soldiers with many sources saying that the rest of his army totaled 50,000. This is because numerous houses from the reach sided with Stannis and he should of soundly won at blackwater had Tywin and the Tyrells not (magically) secretly marched on King's landing.
No he had 20,000. Only about 15K soldiers from Renly's army went with him as the majority of Renly's army was from the reach and almost none of them joined him. The other 5K was from his original force from Dragonstone. Only half a dozen reach houses joined him and their combined forces were nowhere near the size of the main Tyrell army. They also didn't magically march there. The Tyrells were at Bitterbrige and when Littlefinger proposed the marriage between Margery and Joffery they marched to Tumbler's fall where they met up with Tywin and sailed the Blackwater rush until they neared Kingslanding, where they then rode for the city.
@@thearmada6248 ok i think you're right I don't know what passage i got the 50000 number from in the books. Thanks for telling me.
If you were Wondering, according to this video could before the start of the War of the Five Kings in the books Westeros gather up to 456 000 men. But I guess Bronn and 20 good men are enough.
One realm! One god! ONE KING! Long live Stannis, the rightful heir of the iron throne.
Unless your The Mountain who rides. Then the only person you answer to is Tywin Lannister.
TraciPeteyforlife he answers to Tywin though ?
Well the show only has a fraction of that in battles. It would have made more sense for Rob to march south with 40,000+ soldiers instead of 19,500 because there would have been enough soldiers still north to defeat the Greyjoy's and the Bolton's.
I think it would've taken too long to raise 40000 Robb was aiming to save his father at the start and when the iron born attacked the northmen that remained were probably spread around the kingdom so they wouldn't have been able to defend themselves from the iron born
Very good video but could not improve it a bit, with the type of weapons and tactics used by each kingdom, type of troops and other details
Please do a same for navies and fleets
What I can’t understand if why was rob having difficulty getting more men? Yea Freys had 4K but all of the river lands could add to robbs army ? In the books he’s king in the north and riverlands? Where the rest of those 41k or at least half that? A quarter of that?
Plot conviniance.
TYRELL, TYRELL, TYRELL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers. ;-)
STANNIS STANNIS STANNIS!
How do you figure the Reach and Westerlands can raise 150,000 if they only managed to raise 55,00O men together against the Targaryens? And yes I know the hightowers were absent but i think that’s just about only 10,000.
Higtowers ,10 000?They live in the most popular part of the Reach. Their army itself has about 50,000 men. Like Lanisters.
The figures of 50,000 and 100,000 are assuming ideal conditions, where they can truly scrape the bottom by conscripting every fighting age man and mobilizing there entire country. However, realistically there are only so many troops you can raise until your armies are forced into combat as time is of the essence. If you spend too much time on mobilization, your armies have to get into possition before your kingdom is overrun, especially if you are the defender in the conflict . Not to mention thousands who will avoid conscription and desertion. Therefore in practice their strength only ends up being a fraction of what is theoretically possible.
@laurinkaebelmann6373 *Roman army of the Imperial era, Principate specifically.
The armies of the mid-republic, such as during the Punic Wars, were much, much larger and much less professional, and could be up to like 5-10% of the population.
You are right, Feudalism means the lords are incentivized to send as few men as possible to preserve their own strength, and the logistics needed to maintain a large army is non-existent, so only a fraction of the available troops could be called up.
This is why France, a country of 17 million, could only raise an army of around 30000 max for one battle during the Hundred Years War.
The armies around the time of Aegon's conquest were much smaller, same with during the Dance of the Dragons.
This is applicable to real history where at the Battle of Bouvines in 1214, where it was around 7000 French against 9000 Germans, Flemish, and English. But later at Crecy in 1346, it was 25000 French against 12000 English. The numbers are slightly disputed of course but you get the point, armies got larger towards the end of the Middle Ages.
Great video thank you !
In the show I think it goes like this
The Reach: 80-100k
The Westerlands: 60k
Dorne: 50k
The Vale: 45k
The Stormlands: 30k
The North: 20k
The Riverlands: 15-20k
The Iron Islands: 10k
Dragonstone: 5k
I know some people will think that the North has many more men, but this is what I think.
There is no way dorne could reach that number, for example during robert rebellion doran martell could only send like 10k number. This is due the fact that much of dorne is desert region and barren salty land without major river running. Their naval power is also minimum meaning that there is not much trade focusing on food import. Vale should be second to the reach since even if its mountainous like westerland (more steep) the region were vast than westerland and described as fertile due to having volcanic soil. Stormland too should located in lower end number, the region is small and just consisted of forest meaning not much land for farming and no river. riverland having such number is more make sense since the region must be fertile due to the amount of small river and a great river (mean a natural irrigation). It's all boil down to the farming and trade power to support population subsistence.
Anyway i want to hear your reasoning behind those numbers.
Eissa Sinéad it's just my opinion, I need no reasons to have an opinion
Stannis Baratheon what!?!?. How can you have an opinion without being able to defend it!?! That is not an opinion, that is just some random thing you heard in the show
Juan Pablo Sanhueza Robles it's possible to have an opinion without having any reasoning behind it, and the show is a credible source of information
Stannis Baratheon we just wanted to know how did you get those numbers... and you say "It's just what I think" without any reason at all. Thanks m8 really helpful 😐
This is great work 👍
Im really curious about who is going to win the throne in the Winds of Winter.
Here's the way I always thought of it (based on both show and book) realistically:
North: 20k
Riverlands: 10k
Vale: 15k
Crownlands: 20k
Westerlands: 40k
Reach: 55k
Dorne: 30k
Stormlands: 35k
I know this isn't exactly book accurate but I always thought it would be more realistic if the numbers were this way
why the riverland have such very low number?? the region is quite fertile, lots of river for irrigation and why dorne have almost three times number from the book when it was hinted that the region could only field as small as 10k due to the arid climate.
The vale and the reach should have the highest number since both region are fertile, The westerland depend on the great lord ability to field more mercenary i guess so agriculture potential as the sole factor might not do the justice.
Eissa Sinéad I think because house tully isn't that strong...food isn't everything
Of course Agriculture production is at least a major contributor, i am not sure what do you mean by that. Reach could provide more armies because the region is the bread basket of westeros. Meanwhile you put dorne having more number than the vale, despite the vale is being known for their chivalrous tradition and second in term of agricultural production to the reach and dorne is not just arid but in fact the smallest region in westeros.
Eissa Sinéad I thought that because the vale had a long tradition of a cavalry-based military and a large number of nights that their standing army of regulars wouldn't be as big...I'm not gonna say you're wrong, I always love conversations about conflicting views of fan mythology, they're very interesting debates! :)
Westerlands: 60k
The Reach: 80k
The Vale: 45k
The North: 20k
The Riverlands:10k
Iron Islands: 10k
Dorne: 50k
The vulture king diskless exclusively dornish people,he was a pawn to the faith, citadel and hightowers, he lead religious fanatics.
Really enjoyed this updated video, but it still bugs me how the Riverlands were crushed so easily despite having an army on par with the North.
Jasper Lane Geography and the fact that their Lord at the time was old and sick so his son, Edmure, took command and weakened himself in an effort to protect all of the River lands against Gregor's raiding. Plus, the Riverlands itself was split in half with Tywin tacking the eastern half and jaime the west. Also the small folk began fleeing towards King's Landing, which meant that many men who would otherwise be given a pike and helmet and shield were fleeing from the conflict.
Dylan Lowers
That would explain why the Lannister would be able to beat the Tullys, I can except that. But for Jamie to win battle after battle untill riverrun without lossing any substantial forces is mine bogling, and it's not just that, it seemed like Rob didn't lose a single guy when he lifted the siege of riverun. I just wish GRRM went into more detail with the wars and battles cuz as it stands it seems like a mess to me.
Jasper Lane Well Jaime defeats a far smaller force at the golden tooth, then defeats Edmure. We don't know how exactly these battles happened. However because the pov characters only know the obscure details, their information being days,weeks or months old the reader is only privy to those numbers. Jaime likely lost upwards of a thousand, but you have to remember that moral is also important. Jaime's men have won a battle already and are led by a great warrior, high moral, less likely to break and run, which is when most casualties are suffered. Edmure's forces are weakened by the raising, upset that their villages and castles are being sacked and they know that their army at the golden tooth has been routed. They are more likely to break and run if they think they can't win and that they need to go home.
As for Robbie, the casualties are probably not too bad as a third of the lannisters host outside riverrun escapes and doesn't join battle at all. Combined with the element of surprise they likely loose between five hundred and a thousand. However the Tully men supplement Robb's cavalry and bring them back to relitively the same number.
Jasper Lane when Cat is with evenly he says something like your son came with 20k adding the Tully gave him 30k and cat thinks something like war has diminished those numbers a lot. Also Bolton comes back north with 4l northern so a lot were lost.
@@JasperLane tho in reality the lannisters wouldn't have beaten the Tullies so easily on their own land. It's called the river lands for an reason natural moats and such they would've been prepared
Can you provide sources for all these numbers?
the numbers for the northern army are in the first book
This actually helped me in Crusader Kings 2 GoT mod
Great game and mod, glad this helped :)
How?
I would've thought the Westerlands had more people. Isn't their land fertile and well populated?
its very hilly, and bastards born there have the surname "hill". My guess, is that prob a big portion is too hilly to be propperly habitable. Who knows, 50 k is still very impressive
I only ask because that’s about the same manpower as the North and I feel the Westerlands should have considerably more.
@@jeffreygao3956 They did have more, rob stark, had around 15k from the north (without the freys) while lannisters ALONE had almost 40k
@@Amnesia1v9 That's the show, not the books.
@D Anemon They could barely muster just under 20k, with like almost every northern lord joining them. Even if the potential is up to 40-50k, I highly doubt they would reach it, and if they somehow had enough time to do it, half of them would be probably untrained peasants like stafford's army
Can you make video about Great Empire of the dawn?
+Just Kid check out my video about Yi Ti I talk about them there.
Can we just talk about how this how ridiculous it is that in the show Mance had an army of 100k? Like, even if every single man and woman was fighting, it's insane that that many people even live north of the wall.
Enigma Ratsel they do have 100k north of the wall. But I understand what you are saying.
I think Mance's total convoy had 100k people in it, but only around 30-40k of them were fighters. They had children, mothers, old and sick people mixed in as well, who would be non-combatants.
Pt.2 please
9:59 sorry bit confused how the faith militant can fight maegor half a century before aegons conquest happened
Sorry that should say AC
If the Starks can raise 45 thousand, why did they ride with 20 thousand and leave the North defenceless. I’m pretty sure the Riverlands and Iron Islands arn’t that’s sting either.
Road 35 it takes along time to gather the 45 which Robb didn't have the time
I think the Riverlands can raise maybe 15k, and the Greyjoys at most 10k
Stannis Baratheon that’s more real.
danker nibbler why were they empty of soldiers then.
@@stannisbaratheon286 The Riverlands can raise way more than that. The land is full of rivers (duh) making it very fertile and so high population and export. The reason they do not seem so strong is because they were surprise attacked by the Lannisters. They did not get enough time to muster all their armies to make a joined force. Hence they lost a lot of men quickly.
Also the Riverlands connects the North, the Vale, the Westerlands, the Crownlands and the Reach. So they can earn a lot of money from taxing trade.
Isn't it called Lord Paramount and not Vassal Lord? Because eceryone except the king is a vassal, so this makes no sense as a title as the lesser lords are also vassal lords.
yep
So. The kingdom (empire) of westeros, can raise anywhere from 350.000 - 410.000 men! I don't think you know how crazy that is for a medieval state. A large army was at 10.000 and 20.000 was massive. You pretty much don't ever se an army larger than 30.000 at all. France, with a population of 17.000.000 raised I would say. Max 50.000 at any given moment (though not in 1 army). And that was 1/340 of their population. If westeros can get (my estimate of) 375.000 in any given moment, then they may very well have a population of 173.000.000. Which is more than late medieval china in our world. INSANE!
Nathanael Sallhag Eriksson You have no idea what you are talking about.
What? The holy Roman emperor fielded 100 thousand for his crusade and that's one kingdom, there are 9 in this lore.
Westeros is a whole continent. I don’t have to say anything else
Seven Kingdom vs Nine Free Cities? My money is on the free cities.
Free Cities have bigger and stronger navy than Seven Kingdoms but much little land army than them
Didt Stannis have about 100 000 or am i wrong. Think i heard that number
The 100,000 Was the full force of the reach and stormlands United under renly. After Renly's death,
The stormlords and a handful of reach lords joined stannis, so he had about 21,000 men (16000 from Renly's men and 5000 from stannis' original host) in total when he attacked Kingslanding.
Didnt Stannis siege Kings landing with a force that outnumbered the defensive forced by alot?
@@joachimosmundsen5571 In the books he outnumbered them by more than 3 to 1.
Could have been the show, im not sure. But i thought Stannis outnumbered them by alot. 3 to 1 could be right though
@@joachimosmundsen5571 It was about 2.5 to 1 during Blackwater.
Wait a minute. 8:52
-"while a young man named Aegon Targaryen claiming to be the son of Rhaegar Targaryen invading Stormsland with the Golden Company"
Are you kidding me?
Oh yes, that is a part of the books that were omitted from the show
This is in the books, this is not showing in the TV show
Well watch until 15:00 if you don’t want to get spoilers for house of the dragon 🐉
LANNISTERS : 6:13 here we are 🦁🦁🦁💸💰💸
now i can finally sleep, knowing that starks arn't that weak
So all the seven kingdoms can raise about 400,000 men
As high as honor!
Wasn't there a video like this that was made way back? Is it deleted or am I crazy?
Yes, this is an updated version of that video, remade with new audio, graphics and info. The old one is now unlisted but you can still find it if you want too by going into my playlists.
Ah, good, I'm not tripping. Would like to see more specifics of the armies, like armor, weapons and skills :)
I find it hard to believe that the crownlsnds could only muster 10,000 soldiers I mean kingslanding alone could atleast have a standing army of 20,000
Ont he show didn't stands have an army of like 60k when he invaded kings landing? I guess the stormlands is just super populous in the show...
No he had like 25k
Who would win then:
The armies of Westeros or Middle Earth?
Middle-earth, they have more powerful magic users and non-humans in their ranks.
@@CivilizationEx if it was only the human's it might be closer
Fused Varis well, if the men of Numenor fought against Westeros they would just stomp over Westeros.
CivilizationEx yeah that’s why you can’t really compare Westeros magic to other books. Westeros have a more underlying and non direct magic system.
LOTR at any time period would absolutely stomp the GOT world. Particularly if it was a First or Second Age army that came. It’s not even remotely close.. the Dragons from LOTR shit on the Dragons from GOT. Numenoran Men have enhanced speed and strength over normal men. The elves do as well.
Question, how are there only 7 kingdoms, but 8 vassal lords, and at the 1:00 mark there are 8 symbols on the map.
The 7 kingdoms existed before Aegon's conquest. After the conquest they were split up into 9 territories, but one of those was the crownlands which was administered by the King. So there were 8 vassal lords that ran the other territories.
The Riverlands and Iron Islands were 1 kingdom when Aegon attacked, but then he made the Tullys their own lords
Either because the Iron Islands and the Rirer Lands were once the Kingdom of The Islands and Rivers, or because Dorne joined later.
The riverlands were owned by the ironborn back then.
*spits* King Slayer!
North:18K
Riverlands:19K
Vale:22K
Stormlands:19K
Dorne:15K
Reach:70K
Westerlands:45K
Iron Islands:12K
Crownlands:8K
Just my guess as to their standing armies before TWOTFK
The North had more than 18,000 when they marched south so I'd say closer to 30,000, along with the vale and dorne having the same. Also the westerlands has near 60,000 as a maximum as they were able to gather another host at oxcross before Robb attacked them. The riverlands probably about 40,000 max as even with their early defeats and many lords going back to their castles Edmure still was able to marshal 11,000 men and that doesn't include the freys. The iron isles about 15,000-20,000 but that is the most difficult in my opinion to work out. and the crown lands probably about 15,000 max not including the goldcloaks. Also the reach should have about 90,000-100,000 due to having old town and they didn't even commit their forces or at least not all of them, and in I think storm when Tyrion is told that there are 80,000 tyrells in the city. Plus the arbor doesn't get involved until the Redwyn twins are safe.
But it is really hard to estimate with George being a bit vague here and there.
Dylan Lowers
Nah fam. In Catlyn's chapters when she visits Renly she says the North has a standing army of 18K. The nobles loyal to Renly estimate that they have 34K soldiers but Cat thinks they only have 24K.
Dwayne The Rock Well the kingdoms of westerosi don't have standing armies but I think I know what you mean by that. Catylen is thinking of the northern forces that were raised, meaning gathered by Robb at winterfell and marched south. That force is 18-19,000 strong. After Robb defeats Jaime Edmure allows the Riverlords to go back to their castles and attend to their lands. The reason that Renly estimated their forces to be half of his infantry force is because he is going off the information that Robb and Edmure have marshalled their full forces at Riverrun.
If you have not read A dance with Dragons or Feast, then Spoilers:
Wyman Manderly has 6,000 men gathered from his own forces and the other houses east of the white knife. Plus the 500 umbers, 500 karstarks and 5000 Bolton men, the 3,000 mountain clansmen, the troops of Lady Dustin the north still can gather another 14-16,000 men. Also there are 500 men from the siege of winterfell who were able to flee the battle when Ramsay attacked Rodrik, who had been able to gather 2,000 men to take back the castle. Now I think that the north can gather 35,000 men at the maximum definitely.
Boomer Dwayne after that she said she didn’t want to tell her sons true strength to an untrustworthy person
Jon Arryn's son name is Robin Arryn isn't it?
In the books he is Robert Arryn
Why was Robb only able to conjure 18,000 men if he potentially could have 45,000?
The North is massive, being really hard to assemble its army, taking too much time to do so. Robb was trying to be as quick as posible, because he was trying to liberate his father and sisters, so there wasn't too much time available to gather the entire northern military potential.
Robb wanted to apply a much more offensive strategy by rapidly mobilizing and catching the lannisters off guard. (Think Blitzkrieg but without tanks and not quite to the same scale).Therefore he couldn't spend too much time on raising troops.
Its funny watching the tv show and seeing the crap ton of inconsistencies of the armies. And I come back and watch this cuz of the reliability
Lovely vid
Man someone has to make a game of thrones open world game
I would av loved to see dornish army marching to war in game of thrones