If you want to have your mind blown... try mixing carbazole violet with pthalo green blue shade. It will make a blue similar to indanthrene blue. It totally threw me when I discovered this :) I like to use carbazole violet, quinacridone burnt orange, and a mid green (like undersea green), to create luminous shadows. I think that Daniel Smith actually sells the three as a set, and Liron Yancosky also recently talked about this unusual trio in one of his videos :)
I mostly have single pigment paints, but that’s because I have been very slowly adding to my watercolor collection and have concentrated on finding my favorite primary color palettes before worrying about secondary colors. That being said, I do have some multi-pigment paints. Honestly? Knowing if a color is “warm” or “cool” is more important than the number of pigments involved. It’s possible to make mud with single pigment paints. A single pigment warm red with a single pigment warm blue is generally going to make an ugly grayish purple. Now, can it be important to know that your Sap Green has an orange pigment in the mix? Yes, yes it can. It means adding blue is going to gray out the color. That may not be a bad thing, it all depends on what you are trying to achieve. It comes down to knowing your materials and playing with or testing the possibilities so that you know what you have to work with. I’ve also found that it’s easier to get mud with more opaque paints...I’d much rather have a transparent or semi-transparent multi-pigment paint than a single pigment opaque or semi-opaque paint to mix with.
@@Renilou2 Indeed, so much so that it's referred to as Perylene Black by many. I recall seeing it on an archival photograph of John Marin's supply list. He had it down as a black and a green.
Excellent video and topic Teoh! My favorite paint is Holbein and I often here a lot of criticism about their use of multi-pigment mixtures, but I've never had an issue with muddy mixtures or lack of vibrancy. I think it's more important to understand how to use the paints you have and how the paints will react with other paints regardless of the number of pigments. I've also discovered that with multi-pigment paints that as long as those pigments are used in other parts of your drawing, either as single pigments or as part of other mixtures, that your painting will still have some sense of harmony. If you are using quin gold and either sap green, undersea green, or both, the painting will probably look OK. You got some awesome mixtures there, too!!!
That was excellent. The warm/cool nature of colors is so important in mixing and using paints and it's a lesson I learn over and over again. Taking the time to play with the colors you have really shows the range of colors you can mix and then you can decide what "convenience" colors you might want.
I LOVE this video! I love multi-pigment paints and some purists really tout that they are sub-par options. It just goes to show it depends on the colors you mix. Thank you!
I think the emphasis on single pigment paints is often too strong. Single pigments are good but you really have to know what to do with them and how to apply colour theory to make best use of them. Thanks for the upload. It always amazes me how consistent you are in uploading high quality content. :)
I liked watching your demos but I would like to point out that the scarlet is more orange than red so it makes sense it would turn out more grey when mixed with blue.
Bravo! Another great, fun, and informative video! It's amazing how much Aussie Gold has become one of my favorite go-to colors. It may be my favorite of the new Daniel Smith mixes which is astonishing given how skeptical I was when I first saw it announced. I didn't think I had need for such an orangey color and my palette. But as your video demonstrates it clearly has some fascinating properties to it.
Purple is the hardest color to hit in my opinion... and u can not hit it with a orangish red... I'm one of those artists that swears magenta is a primary color, red is a secondary color :)
Yes! I agree. Those colors are all you need to get every color under the rainbow in printer ink. Magenta, Cyan, Yellow. I found PY150 in a few brands is closest to the yellow in my printer. (The Truth About Color, by, Scott Naismith is what convinced me a few years ago)
the only multipigment paint in my palette are chromatic black that I mix myself... it contain PY154, PR209 and PB15:1, all these color are also part of my palette.. I think the key to multipigment paint is to know what pigment it contain... for example, if you want a really good green.. you might get a better result from Holbein's Leaf green because it contain PG7, Phthalo Green BS and imagine the result you'll get if you mix that yellow with Holbein's Peacock Blue which also contain PG7.. the only downside is, the multipigment color arent as versatile as single pigment for example, I'll get a pretty good purple with Phthalo Blue GS as long as I mix it with a cool red, the cooler the red, the better the purple, but I'll never get a purple with Holbein's Peacock Blue because Phthalo Green BS within it is going to neutralize with the red...
I use both single and multi pigment paints and so far I've not noticed a huge difference when using one or two colours, but if I need to use three it can sometimes be a bit tricky. It might just be my own inexperience, but I find that sometimes there's a surprise tone ("mud") I wasn't expecting when trying to mix a neutral or black from three different sources. I'm sure with more practice it would be OK!
If you have not already used White Nights watercolors, make sure to judge them from the colors on paper rather than when they are in the pans. The colors in the pans sometimes look nothing like those same colors on paper. My first impression of WNs was quite terrible, but since then I even have ordered a hand-made brass palette specifically for them because the amount of pigment is incredible.
I think some single pingment statement is not reasonable. If someone claims that their preference is merely the ideology of purity, then I would say go for it. But some claims are misleading. The first thing to notice is that a pigment name like PB29 is a general thing to describe a colorant, which is'nt eaqual to single chemical. PB29 is manufactured by calcinating several chemicals and naturally result in different shades that contain different amount of ultramarine violet. So when I see a comment blaming Mijello UB deep for adding PV15, I'm like, uh...??? Same thing with the hype of PBR7 thing. In fact these iron-oxide pigment is a blend of different kinds of irons(+2,+3,+4)that carry different amount of water monicular, and different amount of MnO2. And natural sources is combined with clay. Nothing single, natural thing even more complex. Paranoid on finding an earth color made from several synthetics pigment, I'm like...??? Same thing with those blends of pigments in same hue to ajust to a specific warmth. Another thing is about the muddy thing. First, mud is not iherently a bad thing, a friend for most painting actually. Second, avoiding mud is a matter of color theory application. And in practice, in wartercolor, transparent colors' mixing creates most interesting mud, opaque colors more likely to making it dirty looking in contrast. Many masters use white and black in watercolor. Things like happen all the time. The material speaks for itself in practice. I really appreciate your videos focus on more of what reaaly happens in painting practice.
Although Carbazole Violet (Daniel Smith) and Winsor Violet use the exact same pigment I find trying to dull down Carbazole Violet with yellow I end up with brown. Winsor Violet does not turn brown when mixed with a touch of yellow and is therefore much better in my opinion.
in my research I have found that PV23 comes in a red and blue shade but manufacturers dont describe which they use. my winsor violet seems to be noticeably cooler than the dot card sample I had from daniel smith so perhaps that's the reason?
Do you have the older version of Quinacridone Deep Gold with PO49? The new formula is a double pigment. I still have some PO49. Thank for sharing. Pigments mixed in the same color family wont make mud.
I use multi pigments and mix using many paints and don't find I personally have issues. The standing on the colour wheel and way individual pigments and Papers behave as well as technique is what appears to matter most in my experience. So this video didn't mention the impact of Paper but I find its a huge issue. Each paper behaves differently and colours look and behave differently on different papers!
Aussie Red Gold is gorgeous.but it is not available in a 5ml tube. You would get a similar rich orange if you mixed Quin Gold deep with the red, and that is available in the 5ml tube
Hi you forgot the link to Steve’s video. Also one of the comments below talks about the video with the formula byrYB= I remember watching that would be a good one to link to as well. Thanks
Thanks. Just added the links Steve Mitchell on preventing muddy mixes ruclips.net/video/mjCitkGHRcw/видео.html Mixing warm cool colours ruclips.net/video/gBo68CzS5eM/видео.html
I always remember back to your video when I first started where you used your a formula for warm & cool colours. I keep that in mind all the time when mixing :) So using your example 9:10 of Undersea Green (ByrY) = mud Sap Green (yrYby) = vibrant ... or something like that ;)
Woow super useful! Thank you, Teoh I have a doubt a little bit out of context: what are the uses for opaque watercolors? I had seen that people try to avoid them in their pallets, but they still exist, and I get a little confused ( I mean high brands with their opaque and semi opaque options)
They are usually used for their opacity, to cover up things. E.g. Painting Cadmium Red onto black to make traffic lights. They aren't good for mixing and mixtures can turn muddy easily so they are usually used on their own.
Opaques are also good for dropping wet into wet if you don't want the colour to run but just want it to go a little blurry. So sepia is good for dropping in as leopard spots and cadmium red is good for stripes in sandstone pillars/arches. Thanks to Hazel Soan for both of those tips.
@@Michelle-ux4et I don't have a review for that but you check out this video. The sketchbook uses Fabriano Studio coldpress paper. ruclips.net/video/uWJv7yHijEs/видео.html
It doesn't really make any difference for mixing colors if a paint is single or multi pigment. That is just a RUclipsr myth, IMO. (But *EVERY* different pigment or combination of pigments affect a color mix in a subtly unique way, regardless of whether the color of the pigment looks the same as some other or not. - But this is *NOT* important, not for the artist, and not for mixing colors. It can be disregarded without concern, in the context of single vs multi pigment paints.) Let's see if I can break this down: In a serious artist paint brand, there can be seen essentially four different motivations for including a paint in the range. 1 - An original pigment that is valuable for artist use, always single pigment paints. 2 - A convenience paint, basically a ready-mix, always multi pigment. 3 - A replacement paint, that aims to replace a classic, commonly used, original pigment, that for some reason was desirable to replace with a modern, better pigment. Sometimes touched with a slight tint to closer match original, but normally single pigment paints. 4 - A facsimilia paint, that aims to replace a classic, commonly used, pigment, that for some reason is necessary to replace, because it's no longer available, too fugitive, too expensive, or too toxic. Normally multi pigment, in order to match properties. The reason for category 3 and 4 paints, is that there are a lot of old artists out there who are used to working with their predecessors. That aside, even without the history, most modern cat 3. pigments would still have made it into the range on their own merits, as cat. 1 paints. (None of this logic is true for the likes of Mijello Mission Gold and many other Asian brands, of course. They have their own logic. But I don't consider these brands "serious", and note that I qualified my discussion for serious artist paint brands.) There are not any clear borders around my four different categories. A paint may well eventually belong to several of them. It's all in the paint's and paint name's history. Some examples to illuminate: Cadmium Reds and Yellows, Viridian, Cobalt Blue, Ultramarine, Prussian Blue, Phthalo Blues and Greens, Raw&Burnt Siennas, Raw&Burnt Umbers, Yellow Ochre, Light Red are all cat. 1, of course. Payne's Grey, Hooker's Green, Olive Green, Permanent Green are all cat. 2, and originated as such. They were introduced as ready mixes for the artist's convenience. The very same is true for Aussie Red Gold and Undersea Green, although I find them very unmotivated and see them more as a marketing ploy by D.S. who likes to have a very large range. Vermillion, Magenta, Rose Madder, Carmine, Crimson, Scarlet Lake, Indian Yellow, Gamboge, Lemon Yellow are good examples of category 3. Noteworthy is that once upon a time they were introduced as belonging to cat 1. Many of them have a long history of being represented by a succession of different pigments, becoming better and better. And that many of the pigments used today under these names would be (and often are) cat 1, when introduced as new or appearing under their own names. Some of these paints, like Gamboge and Indian Yellow, can also be considered to have belonged to, or belong to, cat. 4. Alizarin Crimson, Sap Green, Indigo, Manganese Blue, Emerald Green, Quinacridone Gold, Sepia, Van Dyck Brown, are examples of category 4. There's no good "rational" reasons to offer any Alizarin Crimson, Sap Green or Quinacridone Gold today. It's just because the paints were/are so popular, and because of artists' painting habits. Genuine Sap Green was ridiculously fugitive but also very popular with water color painters. As soon as Phthalo Green was invented it became easy to offer a more durable mix. Some versions were/are more like imitations, but many are just convenience paints today, not really bothering much to match original Sap Green. There are also some oddities. 'Naples Yellow' deserve some mention. Originally, this was introduced as an original facsimilia in watercolor, because the genuine Oil Paint pigment is not possible to prepare and use as watercolor. Often, it's not yet possible to offer a facsimilia that is as good at some things as the original. That is unfortunately the case for Manganese Blue and, arguably, Quinacridone Gold. And Permanent Alizarin Crimsons cannot match the strength and depth of genuine Alizarin.
I think it may be, because Alizarin is usually a pigment with less lightfastness, but the one of Daniel Smith is better in this behaviour. I think they tried to mix a color similar to the original alizarin, to have better quality
DS Carmine PR176, DS Anthraquinoid Red PR177 or DS Pyrrol Crimson PR264 are all pretty good single pigment substitutions for PR83--those are the pigments commonly used to replace Permanent Alizarin Crimson.
If you want to have your mind blown... try mixing carbazole violet with pthalo green blue shade. It will make a blue similar to indanthrene blue. It totally threw me when I discovered this :) I like to use carbazole violet, quinacridone burnt orange, and a mid green (like undersea green), to create luminous shadows. I think that Daniel Smith actually sells the three as a set, and Liron Yancosky also recently talked about this unusual trio in one of his videos :)
What I discovered years ago is that a beautiful blue can be mixed with a turquoise and a violet.
You also can make something similar to PB36 with the same mixture. However, it’s prone to separating like granulating colors.
I mostly have single pigment paints, but that’s because I have been very slowly adding to my watercolor collection and have concentrated on finding my favorite primary color palettes before worrying about secondary colors. That being said, I do have some multi-pigment paints. Honestly? Knowing if a color is “warm” or “cool” is more important than the number of pigments involved. It’s possible to make mud with single pigment paints. A single pigment warm red with a single pigment warm blue is generally going to make an ugly grayish purple. Now, can it be important to know that your Sap Green has an orange pigment in the mix? Yes, yes it can. It means adding blue is going to gray out the color. That may not be a bad thing, it all depends on what you are trying to achieve. It comes down to knowing your materials and playing with or testing the possibilities so that you know what you have to work with. I’ve also found that it’s easier to get mud with more opaque paints...I’d much rather have a transparent or semi-transparent multi-pigment paint than a single pigment opaque or semi-opaque paint to mix with.
Yes, sometimes black and yellow will produce a green-like colour
@@EstrafaDC Yes, even PBK31, Perylene Green is considered a black pigment.
@@Renilou2 Indeed, so much so that it's referred to as Perylene Black by many. I recall seeing it on an archival photograph of John Marin's supply list. He had it down as a black and a green.
Excellent video and topic Teoh! My favorite paint is Holbein and I often here a lot of criticism about their use of multi-pigment mixtures, but I've never had an issue with muddy mixtures or lack of vibrancy. I think it's more important to understand how to use the paints you have and how the paints will react with other paints regardless of the number of pigments. I've also discovered that with multi-pigment paints that as long as those pigments are used in other parts of your drawing, either as single pigments or as part of other mixtures, that your painting will still have some sense of harmony. If you are using quin gold and either sap green, undersea green, or both, the painting will probably look OK. You got some awesome mixtures there, too!!!
That was excellent. The warm/cool nature of colors is so important in mixing and using paints and it's a lesson I learn over and over again. Taking the time to play with the colors you have really shows the range of colors you can mix and then you can decide what "convenience" colors you might want.
I LOVE this video! I love multi-pigment paints and some purists really tout that they are sub-par options. It just goes to show it depends on the colors you mix. Thank you!
I swear, you just sold me that Aussie red gold
I think the emphasis on single pigment paints is often too strong. Single pigments are good but you really have to know what to do with them and how to apply colour theory to make best use of them. Thanks for the upload. It always amazes me how consistent you are in uploading high quality content. :)
Thanks. On good days I record more videos so that I can release them slowly. lol
I'm so glad you made a video about this because I've been confused about which is better!
I liked watching your demos but I would like to point out that the scarlet is more orange than red so it makes sense it would turn out more grey when mixed with blue.
Thanks Teoh for breaking this down, it is helpful!
Bravo! Another great, fun, and informative video! It's amazing how much Aussie Gold has become one of my favorite go-to colors. It may be my favorite of the new Daniel Smith mixes which is astonishing given how skeptical I was when I first saw it announced. I didn't think I had need for such an orangey color and my palette. But as your video demonstrates it clearly has some fascinating properties to it.
Great advice! I haven't seen this topic come up much elsewhere. Thanks Teoh. 👍 😄
I never seem to get enough information on colours :) Thanks for the video !
Purple is the hardest color to hit in my opinion... and u can not hit it with a orangish red... I'm one of those artists that swears magenta is a primary color, red is a secondary color :)
Yeah, it's easier to start with a colour that already looks like purple or a colour close to it on the colour wheel.
Yes! I agree. Those colors are all you need to get every color under the rainbow in printer ink. Magenta, Cyan, Yellow. I found PY150 in a few brands is closest to the yellow in my printer. (The Truth About Color, by,
Scott Naismith is what convinced me a few years ago)
Thanks, you gave lots of good information.
the only multipigment paint in my palette are chromatic black that I mix myself... it contain PY154, PR209 and PB15:1, all these color are also part of my palette..
I think the key to multipigment paint is to know what pigment it contain... for example, if you want a really good green.. you might get a better result from Holbein's Leaf green because it contain PG7, Phthalo Green BS and imagine the result you'll get if you mix that yellow with Holbein's Peacock Blue which also contain PG7..
the only downside is, the multipigment color arent as versatile as single pigment for example, I'll get a pretty good purple with Phthalo Blue GS as long as I mix it with a cool red, the cooler the red, the better the purple, but I'll never get a purple with Holbein's Peacock Blue because Phthalo Green BS within it is going to neutralize with the red...
I use both single and multi pigment paints and so far I've not noticed a huge difference when using one or two colours, but if I need to use three it can sometimes be a bit tricky. It might just be my own inexperience, but I find that sometimes there's a surprise tone ("mud") I wasn't expecting when trying to mix a neutral or black from three different sources. I'm sure with more practice it would be OK!
Wonderful video! Also, by the way, would you recommend white nights watercolor for a begginer-intermiedite-ish watercolor painter? Thank you!
Yes, White Nights is good quality paint.
@@teohyc thank you!
Edit: also your videos has helped me a lot in my watercolor journey, so thanks again!
If you have not already used White Nights watercolors, make sure to judge them from the colors on paper rather than when they are in the pans. The colors in the pans sometimes look nothing like those same colors on paper. My first impression of WNs was quite terrible, but since then I even have ordered a hand-made brass palette specifically for them because the amount of pigment is incredible.
I think some single pingment statement is not reasonable. If someone claims that their preference is merely the ideology of purity, then I would say go for it. But some claims are misleading. The first thing to notice is that a pigment name like PB29 is a general thing to describe a colorant, which is'nt eaqual to single chemical. PB29 is manufactured by calcinating several chemicals and naturally result in different shades that contain different amount of ultramarine violet. So when I see a comment blaming Mijello UB deep for adding PV15, I'm like, uh...??? Same thing with the hype of PBR7 thing. In fact these iron-oxide pigment is a blend of different kinds of irons(+2,+3,+4)that carry different amount of water monicular, and different amount of MnO2. And natural sources is combined with clay. Nothing single, natural thing even more complex. Paranoid on finding an earth color made from several synthetics pigment, I'm like...??? Same thing with those blends of pigments in same hue to ajust to a specific warmth.
Another thing is about the muddy thing. First, mud is not iherently a bad thing, a friend for most painting actually. Second, avoiding mud is a matter of color theory application. And in practice, in wartercolor, transparent colors' mixing creates most interesting mud, opaque colors more likely to making it dirty looking in contrast.
Many masters use white and black in watercolor. Things like happen all the time. The material speaks for itself in practice.
I really appreciate your videos focus on more of what reaaly happens in painting practice.
Although Carbazole Violet (Daniel Smith) and Winsor Violet use the exact same pigment I find trying to dull down Carbazole Violet with yellow I end up with brown. Winsor Violet does not turn brown when mixed with a touch of yellow and is therefore much better in my opinion.
in my research I have found that PV23 comes in a red and blue shade but manufacturers dont describe which they use. my winsor violet seems to be noticeably cooler than the dot card sample I had from daniel smith so perhaps that's the reason?
Do you have the older version of Quinacridone Deep Gold with PO49? The new formula is a double pigment. I still have some PO49. Thank for sharing. Pigments mixed in the same color family wont make mud.
I don't have the PO49 unfortunately
I use multi pigments and mix using many paints and don't find I personally have issues. The standing on the colour wheel and way individual pigments and Papers behave as well as technique is what appears to matter most in my experience. So this video didn't mention the impact of Paper but I find its a huge issue. Each paper behaves differently and colours look and behave differently on different papers!
Very helpful explanation. Teoh, you are my guru.
Thanks 😁
How would you be able to get a purple from Scarlet Lake and Phthalo Blue (GS)? That scarlet is basically orange
Aussie Red Gold is gorgeous.but it is not available in a 5ml tube. You would get a similar rich orange if you mixed Quin Gold deep with the red, and that is available in the 5ml tube
Hi you forgot the link to Steve’s video. Also one of the comments below talks about the video with the formula byrYB= I remember watching that would be a good one to link to as well. Thanks
Thanks. Just added the links Steve Mitchell on preventing muddy mixes
ruclips.net/video/mjCitkGHRcw/видео.html
Mixing warm cool colours
ruclips.net/video/gBo68CzS5eM/видео.html
Thank you, very very useful :-)
I always remember back to your video when I first started where you used your a formula for warm & cool colours. I keep that in mind all the time when mixing :) So using your example 9:10 of Undersea Green (ByrY) = mud Sap Green (yrYby) = vibrant ... or something like that ;)
Woow super useful! Thank you, Teoh I have a doubt a little bit out of context: what are the uses for opaque watercolors? I had seen that people try to avoid them in their pallets, but they still exist, and I get a little confused ( I mean high brands with their opaque and semi opaque options)
They are usually used for their opacity, to cover up things. E.g. Painting Cadmium Red onto black to make traffic lights. They aren't good for mixing and mixtures can turn muddy easily so they are usually used on their own.
Opaques are also good for dropping wet into wet if you don't want the colour to run but just want it to go a little blurry.
So sepia is good for dropping in as leopard spots and cadmium red is good for stripes in sandstone pillars/arches. Thanks to Hazel Soan for both of those tips.
@@theartisticactuary thank you very much! I'll try that
This is Amazing
For me transparent is the first thing to care about when it come to watercolors
May I ask which New Gamboge you have? It looks like the old one py153, but I can't tell. Ty.
It's the new New Gomboge
Thank you so much! I really appreciate your reply.
5:29 Purple use a cool red and a warm blue
The Mind of Watercolor video on making mud is at ruclips.net/video/mjCitkGHRcw/видео.html.
Are you using Fabriano studio watercolor paper?
Yes
@@teohyc I know you already dod a reveiw on the Fabriano Studio hot press, but would you mind doing one on thier cold press?
@@Michelle-ux4et I don't have a review for that but you check out this video. The sketchbook uses Fabriano Studio coldpress paper. ruclips.net/video/uWJv7yHijEs/видео.html
very useful video, thank you :)
It doesn't really make any difference for mixing colors if a paint is single or multi pigment. That is just a RUclipsr myth, IMO. (But *EVERY* different pigment or combination of pigments affect a color mix in a subtly unique way, regardless of whether the color of the pigment looks the same as some other or not. - But this is *NOT* important, not for the artist, and not for mixing colors. It can be disregarded without concern, in the context of single vs multi pigment paints.)
Let's see if I can break this down: In a serious artist paint brand, there can be seen essentially four different motivations for including a paint in the range.
1 - An original pigment that is valuable for artist use, always single pigment paints.
2 - A convenience paint, basically a ready-mix, always multi pigment.
3 - A replacement paint, that aims to replace a classic, commonly used, original pigment, that for some reason was desirable to replace with a modern, better pigment. Sometimes touched with a slight tint to closer match original, but normally single pigment paints.
4 - A facsimilia paint, that aims to replace a classic, commonly used, pigment, that for some reason is necessary to replace, because it's no longer available, too fugitive, too expensive, or too toxic. Normally multi pigment, in order to match properties.
The reason for category 3 and 4 paints, is that there are a lot of old artists out there who are used to working with their predecessors. That aside, even without the history, most modern cat 3. pigments would still have made it into the range on their own merits, as cat. 1 paints.
(None of this logic is true for the likes of Mijello Mission Gold and many other Asian brands, of course. They have their own logic. But I don't consider these brands "serious", and note that I qualified my discussion for serious artist paint brands.)
There are not any clear borders around my four different categories. A paint may well eventually belong to several of them. It's all in the paint's and paint name's history.
Some examples to illuminate:
Cadmium Reds and Yellows, Viridian, Cobalt Blue, Ultramarine, Prussian Blue, Phthalo Blues and Greens, Raw&Burnt Siennas, Raw&Burnt Umbers, Yellow Ochre, Light Red are all cat. 1, of course.
Payne's Grey, Hooker's Green, Olive Green, Permanent Green are all cat. 2, and originated as such. They were introduced as ready mixes for the artist's convenience.
The very same is true for Aussie Red Gold and Undersea Green, although I find them very unmotivated and see them more as a marketing ploy by D.S. who likes to have a very large range.
Vermillion, Magenta, Rose Madder, Carmine, Crimson, Scarlet Lake, Indian Yellow, Gamboge, Lemon Yellow are good examples of category 3. Noteworthy is that once upon a time they were introduced as belonging to cat 1. Many of them have a long history of being represented by a succession of different pigments, becoming better and better. And that many of the pigments used today under these names would be (and often are) cat 1, when introduced as new or appearing under their own names.
Some of these paints, like Gamboge and Indian Yellow, can also be considered to have belonged to, or belong to, cat. 4.
Alizarin Crimson, Sap Green, Indigo, Manganese Blue, Emerald Green, Quinacridone Gold, Sepia, Van Dyck Brown, are examples of category 4. There's no good "rational" reasons to offer any Alizarin Crimson, Sap Green or Quinacridone Gold today. It's just because the paints were/are so popular, and because of artists' painting habits. Genuine Sap Green was ridiculously fugitive but also very popular with water color painters. As soon as Phthalo Green was invented it became easy to offer a more durable mix. Some versions were/are more like imitations, but many are just convenience paints today, not really bothering much to match original Sap Green.
There are also some oddities. 'Naples Yellow' deserve some mention. Originally, this was introduced as an original facsimilia in watercolor, because the genuine Oil Paint pigment is not possible to prepare and use as watercolor.
Often, it's not yet possible to offer a facsimilia that is as good at some things as the original. That is unfortunately the case for Manganese Blue and, arguably, Quinacridone Gold. And Permanent Alizarin Crimsons cannot match the strength and depth of genuine Alizarin.
This feels like an argument about 'pure' color. Like somehow multi pigment colors are bad and dirty? Lol
I am surprised that the Daniel Smith Permanent Alizarin Crimson has 3 pigments! Winsor and Newton only has one....and so do most other brands
I think it may be, because Alizarin is usually a pigment with less lightfastness, but the one of Daniel Smith is better in this behaviour. I think they tried to mix a color similar to the original alizarin, to have better quality
DS Carmine PR176, DS Anthraquinoid Red PR177 or DS Pyrrol Crimson PR264 are all pretty good single pigment substitutions for PR83--those are the pigments commonly used to replace Permanent Alizarin Crimson.
Actually W&N Permanent Alizarin Crimson has 2 pigments: PR206 and Quinacridone Pyrollidone that has no symbol.
Or just go for Winsor Newton quinacridone magenta. Single pigment, transparent and a good replacement for either of those alizarin crimsons.
Interesting :)