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Adaptation, Brand, and Into the Woods
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- In which I discuss how the 2014 film adaptation of Stephen Sondheim's classic musical Into the Woods landed at Disney and what barriers held it back from reaching its full potential.
For more about the shortcomings of the film adaptation of Into the Woods, be sure to check out Snugboy's video if you haven't: • Disney's Into The Wood...
CHAPTERS:
0:00 Intro
2:00 Years of Pre-Production/Production
6:47 Disney's Brand/Selling Into the Woods
11:36 The Adaptation/Would Into the Woods Have Ever Worked as a Movie?
20:12 Conclusion
Twitter: / zackpaslay
Instagram: / zackpaslay
Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/ZackPaslay
Music by: LuKremBo
Sources:
Abramovitch, S. (2015, July 30). Perverted Wolves, Cheating Wives and a Fired 10-Year-Old: The Dark Path to Disney's 'Into the Woods'. Retrieved December 23, 2020, from www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...
McCarthy, E. (2014, December 24). The Jim Henson Company and the Into the Woods Movie that Could've Been. Retrieved December 23, 2020, from www.mentalfloss.com/article/6...
Verrier, R. (2013, September 16). Disney film 'Into the Woods' begins production in U.K. Retrieved December 23, 2020, from www.latimes.com/entertainment...
D'Souza, K. (2016, August 12). Review: 'Into the Woods' impressive, but a bit too tame. Retrieved December 23, 2020, from www.mercurynews.com/entertainm...
Holden, S. (2014, December 24). The Quest for Storybook Endings in a Scary but Magical World. Retrieved December 23, 2020, from www.nytimes.com/2014/12/25/mo...
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I think what I miss the most from the original Into the Woods is the humor. The movie was so dark and we needed more humor and lightness than we got. The stage version was a mockery of Disney fairytale and was then adapted by Disney. I feel like we lost some of that irony.
It’s almost surprising how much of the irony/humor is lost in that translation from stage to film, especially when you consider that Enchanted and Frozen are examples of Disney utilizing a level of tongue-in-cheek, ironic humor with fairy tales. It’s sad how self-serious the ItW movie is
Agreed, and Bernadette, of course, made us laugh.
You prolly dont care but does any of you know of a tool to log back into an instagram account?
I was dumb lost the account password. I appreciate any tips you can give me.
@Soren Langston instablaster =)
"You can talk to birds?" does indeed hit different when appropriated by the company who'd become synonymous with that exact trope.
I would have loved if this movie embraced the fact that it’s a comedy and broke that fourth wall. Like, if they started to roll credits after act one, and the act two song is performed over it like those films that catch you up on what everyone is doing at the end, only for the credits to get knocked asunder when the ground shakes; or if there was a narrator, dragging him out of a recording booth and into the film.
ooh my god imagine if the camera pulled out and you could see the soundstage and the narrator and everything?
With the way the character of lemony Snicket was handled in the Netflix adaptation I think including the narrator was definitely possible....
I didn't like Patrick Warburton's flat delivery (I never imagined Snicket's narration in the book that emotionless and dry), but I really agree that the narrator in Into The Woods could have been employed in a similar way.
Yes! I feel like a bunch of RUclipsrs lately have been stuck on Howard Ashman's idea that live action movies need to meet a higher standard of believability than stage plays. But that's just one dude's opinion. Moulin Rouge and Chicago should be evidence that you can get an audience to roll with all kinds of crazy stuff in movies if you do it stylishly (and Series of Unfortunate Events definitely uses style). A narrator is nothing. Cabaret has its MC, Evita has Che, Rocky Horror has the Professor, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat has, well, the narrator. Surely there are more I'm not thinking of at the moment. Even if they had the narrator mostly as a voiceover, they could have turned the camera to the offscreen area and pulled him out from behind some microphones Monty Python style. There's a way to make just about anything work, just takes thought and creativity.
@@SopranoOfTheNight Fiddler on The Roof has Tevye!
This. With creativity, it would be possible to make him have a physical on-camera presence much like Lemony (but that the characters don't pay as much attention or interact with until the second act) in the story that would justify the turn of the story when he leaves.
Rocky horror I think also did it pretty well
I feel like your last line would have been better as, “It’s not good, it’s not bad, it’s alright.”
I actually tried that in one of my drafts, but in terms of how the line sounded generally (and how I sounded saying it), I just preferred the line I ended up going with
@@ZackPaslay Second idea: "It's not good, it's not bad, it's alright alright alright" like Matthew McConaughey. But in all seriousness, great work with this! I really appreciate the fact that you can see the successes in the film as well as the failures.
@@starlightdancers415 There's also "It's not good, it's not bad, it's ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT OKAY NOW LADIES!?" like in Hey Ya! by Outkast
The film could've worked if it established its tongue and cheek, Meta humor early. Also, brighten up the color palette. Felt like I was watching a David Yates HP movie. Lol
The narrator would have gone sooo far in establishing the tone! 😣
Literally how I described the color in the film to my family 😂
I hate being That Girl, but the witch’s line is “I’m not good, I’m not NICE, I’m just right” (following the line “you’re not good, you’re not bad, you’re just nice”), which acknowledges that she IS kind of bad, despite being pretty much justified.
Speaking of breaking the fourth wall - everyone should watch The Movie Hero (with Jeremy Sisto and Peter Stormare). It’s the best fourth wall breaking film I’ve ever seen
A slip up on my part, thank you for pointing that out! I’ve added The Movie Hero to my watchlist! 💕🎞
This is the first musical I ever saw (the PBS recording), it has such a special place in my heart.
My favorite narrator breaking the fourth wall in a filmed story is Netflix’s Series of Unfortunate Events
I'd cast David Attenborough as the Narrator in my absurd, colorful live-action fairy-tale sitcom-movie musical adaptation, breaking the fourth wall à la Fleabag.
Better yet cast Phoebe Waller-Bridge herself! 🔥💖
They could've done the narrator gag though, Monty Python and the quest for the holy grail did something similar, it would require establishing a narrator which would require changing the piece into something where a narrator would've made sense and therefore the audience would be shocked when it occurs, but it could work.
But I think this possibility emphasizes your point in adaptation distillation and how the needs of appealing to stage fans and Disney's brand (and therefore their audience) limited the possibility of versions of the work that would actually get the point across well in the medium of movie. As a result, we got a film to afraid to take risks and well, ended up as not good and not bad, just nice.
Have the narrator sitting in a reading room and then have the characters kick down one of the walls. Literally breaking the fourth wall.
I would have made the narrator like Netflix made Lemony Snicket in A Series Of Unfortunate Events: he's in scene narrating and interacting with the place (like opening a door, for example) but he's never acknowledged by the characters (in this case, until the time is right...)
i cant believe a movie which was made with $17, a shoelace, and a dream had more creativity and risktaking than a $50 million disney movie 😭
@@tokucore4524 reality is that's usually how it happens. Especially now, megacorporations are obsessed with safe ROI and so will tend to force the safest option. This is death for creativity because that inherently requires risk-taking.
Hollow knight is one of my favorite gaming examples of this. Not every risk will pan out, but you can't get something amazing without risk, you just get serviceable and mediocre.
Yeah, I definitely agree that adapting Into The Woods to film REALLY well would've required a LOT more changes than they made to account for the shift in medium. Into The Woods is just SO fundamentally tied to being a stage show, that finding ways to do the same or similar things, but using the tools of film, would've meant a massive undertaking to rework and rebuild the show from the ground up. They basically would've needed to make the same level of changes that Monty Python made turning Holy Grail into Spamalot, but in reverse. And I don't think any one was actually prepared to do that. AND there's no guarantee most people would've liked the result even if the had, cause we're all so attached to the original.
This is so spot on. The movie is a valiant effort for a show that is so throughly steeped in its theatricality thematically, as a film it just doesn’t work.
The show is also two acts that each have their own three act structure, so to smash them together as if they flow as one three act structure makes the pacing feel super bizarre after the act one portion
But I will always love it cause you can tell they REALLY did try.
Yeah, the show deceptively difficult to adapt, since so much of what makes it unique is tied up in the meta elements that only work on stage. (a good example, and something that was cut from the movie, is all the interludes where all the characters pop in and out to tell the audience what they learned.)
“it’s.... a lot of fun” took me out but literally!! every word of this was correct
Jim Henson Productions wanted to do an adaptation?? I’d love to see a muppet version of Into the Woods!
Or Princess Bride
In meta context as a Disney film, the film's lack of humor compared to the stage show works as a way to show that this isn't actually a "Disney" fairytale - it has real weight and real things to tell its audience. It's obviously debatable whether or not this ultimately works, but I believe that the film can coexist with the stage show - it's simply a different interpretation.
As someone who loves both the stage and film musicals, I really appreciate your review here.
There was no way to stick the finale with the running time and tone imposed by Disney. My hot take is that the Into the Woods movie should have only covered Act 1. Then, if the film had been successful, they could adapt act 2 as a "darker sequel."
Also, James Corden should be banned from musicals immediately.
About the narrator, they could have done something like they did on the Netflix version of A Series of Unfortunate Events, with the narrator showing up on various moments but also him being kind of a character.
Rocky Horror Picture Show used the narrator to great effect too.
Most of the muppet movies pull off the 4th wall break wonderfully, but they are comedy based, and have the premise that the muppets are making the movie, so the 4th wall is shakey to start with.
... of course, now I'm picturing a old school Henson adaptation of Into the Woods (aka Labyrinth/Dark Crystal) and lamenting it will never happen.
Even sadder, it originally WAS going to happen with Jim Henson!
muppet.fandom.com/wiki/Into_the_Woods
@@michaelwilliamybarra2409 Oh man... Painful lament for what never was...
Those 90s readings of into the woods omg...... the money i would pay to travel back in time to be a fly on those walls
okay, I'll be honest, I didn't know this was originally a play. I watched the movie on Netflix a while ago and I actually really liked it, even if in some parts it was kind of weird, it's definitely not bad, just not accurate
This is the best analysis of this adaptation I've seen. Bravo.
I distinctly remember thinking two things as I left the movie: 1) Man, it was really good up until the second part, and 2) Chris Pine played James Kirk better in Into the Woods...
The second one is so true lol
Oh my gosh! I litterally watched your production of Into the Woods for the first time last week. You did an AMAZING job!!!
Yes yes yes!! especially about Rapunzel's death!!
Damn. You were far, far kinder to the movie adaptation than I would be.
I think they could have used the Narrator like how it was done in the Twilight Zone, just more silly.
They could have made him like Netflix made Lemony Snicket in A Series Of Unfortunate Events: he's in scene narrating and interacting with the place (like opening a door, for example) but he's never acknowledged by the characters
I had this problem when I first watched this film. I hadn’t seen the show, so my family and I had no idea what to expect. So it’s a kind of dark Disney movie… but there are princesses! But they aren’t *those* princesses… oh, so it’s fairy tales told in their original darker form… but it’s still a Disney film? And also a musical! Which is… sad? Or scary? Or funny? We really disliked the movie.
I much later saw the original stage recording and every thing made much more sense. Now I love Into the Woods.
New to the channel. I take it that when you said “reasons”, that was a picture of you performing as the baker, yea?
Great video!
ItW has so much dark humor, but the movie was just...dark. Literally dark. I still believe that most of their issues with tone would have been remedied if the Narrator had been included.
Great video
holy fuckballs the cast lists from those two table reads
James Cordon is the reason the reaction was mixed and I will die on this horse
I agree with all the points made, but personally I enjoyed the film. The dark themes and characters were nice for me
I've watched ItW a lot of times. For all its faults I firmly believe its a fun watch
As someone who played the Mysterious Man in a stage production, I share your biased take with regards to the Baker's arc :P
Into the woods the movie feels uncomfortable with what into the woods about
Wasn't Nat King Cole (as part of a duet) used as a "narrator" in a musical starring Jane Fonda?
If I'm looking correctly, you're referring to the film Cat Ballou. I personally had never heard of this film until now, but the concept sounds really interesting, and it very well may pull off the concept that I say wouldn't work in this essay. I'll have to check it out!
I think having the narrator at like Drosselmeyer from the anime Princess Tutu would have worked. Have him stop time to give the narration, or appear on in object like the characters on a clock
Comment for the algorithim, loved the vid!
Into the woods is wonderfully
Cool video but the repeating bg music is driving me crazy
The "" best "" review I got to watch from the movie. It is amazing how people spoke badly about this film unfairly, literally hating it. A little sad for those who like the movie a lot (like me) to see that there are so many people who just want to hate the movie. Nice criticism for not speaking so badly but I still hope someone will speak well of the film someday
By making James Corden the narrator I think they were trying to create some sort of "full circle" angle.
one of his best performances along with The Prom and debatably Smallfoot, am i right?
I'm sure that I would love stage version, but movie... it creeped me, tone was all over the place, not one likeble character, and it became really gross after first half. It was only time in my life when I left the theater before movie ended
4:27 it's absolutely essential to note how Le Mis sent a very important signal to anyone producing movie musicals at the time: actor's popularity is everything, and quality is irrelevant. Le Mis actors sang more like broken washing machines than proper broadway actors (cuz none of the main cast was proper broadway material anyways, and what was actually real broadway material was relegated ot minor roles).
This has led to movies just putting no effort at all into even trying to remotely sound pleasant to the ears, cuz it's absolutely clear audiences today are deaf, as Le Mis not only was horrible to listen to... but awared for how horrible it was (the scene of singing while crying is an example of actually _rewarding_ bad performance).
Disney only adaptation of a Disney musical.
Um...Annie, Rodergers and Hammerstein 's Cinderella don't count?
Only film adaptation, yes! Annie and Cinderella were done on television for ABC!
@@ZackPaslay what about Mary Poppins?
@M K he means film adaptation, like a film adaption from a musical. Mary Poppins is a film musical adaption from a book.
Ok but Anna Kendrick absolutely nailed On The Steps of the Palace.
Emily blunt has nothing on Joanna Gleason in my opinion
God bless you fot not knowing who James Corden is
The main issue I had with 'Into the Woods' is that most of the 2nd act has things that occur for no reason other than to prevent a happy ending. For example the princes no longer love their wives and lust after other women for no reason, the witch laments Rapunzell's death yet it was her bad parenting that caused it, everyone acts like they all equally responsible for the giant's wife attacking when Jack shoulders nearly all the blame.
you completely missed the morale of the story
@@kepo364
"you completely missed the morale of the story"
The story failed to support its own moral.
@@uanime1 if everybody doesn't understand, then yeah. but almost everybody understands except u. don't blme ur own incompetencies on others. that's called entitlement.. exactly the problem being portrayed in the musicl
@@kepo364
"if everybody doesn't understand, then yeah."
Correct.
"but almost everybody understands except u."
You confused yourself with everyone else.
"don't blme ur own incompetencies on others."
I'm not the one who can't spell basic words.
"that's called entitlement.."
Oh the irony.
"exactly the problem being portrayed in the musicl"
Well it's clear that in addition to not being able to read or write you can't even what a video.
Bro the moral is that people dont want to take the responsability from their acts, and what you wish for isnt always what you really want/need