Reviving the magic of vintage clicky keyboards (Zeal Clickiez + NCR-80)
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- Today we’ll review #ZealPC Clickiez switches and match it with the NCR-80 keyboard kit, to see if we can build a mechanical keyboard in 2022, that sounds and feels as good as old Alps SKCM based #VintageKeyboards. 🟢🟠This video is sponsored by PCBWay🟠🟢
When you're ready to produce your next custom keyboard's PCB, plate, metal or injection molded case, PCBWay can bring your designs to life! 👉Get $5 off your first PCBWay order by using my affiliate link: www.pcbway.com/setinvite.aspx...
⭐💾🖥⌨🖱⭐
Welcome to another I/O Sam joint! Today we’ll give an in-depth look into @ZealPC’s new (and pricey!) clicky switch and see if it delivers on its promise to sound and feel as good as vintage Alps SKCM and Buckling Spring switches of the 1980’s and 90’s.
And to achieve that, we’ll install them in the NCR-80, a custom keyboard kit heavily inspired by old vintage boards, to see if a roomy plastic case can indeed improve the sound of clicky switches.
Join me into this interesting time travel experiment into the intriguing world of Vintage #MechanicalKeyboards sounds!
🟢 MAIN FEATURED PRODUCTS:
NCR-80 👉 fave.co/3QaxeKr
Zeal PC Clickiez 👉 zealpc.net/discount/iosam?red...
Drop + MiTo DCD Pegaso Keycaps:
(Drop)👉 fave.co/3BzJGPZ
(Amazon) 👉 amzn.to/3OKMm08
Wowstick Electric Screwdriver:
(Bangood)👉 www.banggood.com/custlink/3DG...
(Amazon)👉 amzn.to/3iiArsC
🟢 I/O SAM SUBREDDIT (ask any question about my videos): / iosam
🟢 SOCIAL LINKS:
Web: www.iosamfranco.com
Twitter: / iosamfranco
Mastodon: bitbang.social/@iosam
Instagram: / iosamfranco
Reddit: / io_sam
Facebook: / iosamfranco
RUclips: / iosam
🟢 PARTIAL LIST OF PRODUCTS LINKS:
- Ducky TKL Leather Wrist Rest w/ Red Stitching: bit.ly/duckywristrest
- Durock V2 Stabilizers Screw-In (Divinikey): bit.ly/3JIg7xP
- Krytox 205 grade 2: amzn.to/3GDHAkk | ebay.us/zttJch
- Krytox 205 grade 0: bit.ly/3FS1nw1 | fave.co/413mV19
- Krytox 105: amzn.to/2NjBSuB | ebay.us/L2Bf31
- Krytox XHT-BDZ: bit.ly/xhtbdz2
- Micro Brushes: amzn.to/3iUsQkr
- 4 x 1mm O-rings: amzn.to/3b2GNbA
- Vortex KBt Re68: bit.ly/vortexkbt68
🟢 FULL LIST OF FEATURED PRODUCTS LINKS:
👉 www.iosamfranco.com/post/zeal...
🟢 MY KEYBOARD TYPING SOUND RECORDING SETUP:
👉 bit.ly/iosamtyping
🟢 REFERENCE VIDEOS & ARTICLES MENTIONED:
I/O Sam - Should you care about switch stem wobble?👉 www.iosamfranco.com/post/swit...
@Chyrosran22 :
- ZealPC Clickiez switches review👉 • ZealPC Clickiez switch...
- Leading Edge DC-2014 review👉 • Leading Edge DC-2014 r...
ThereminGoat 👉 www.theremingoat.com/blog/cli...
@TaeKeyboards - Spray Painting a Mechanical Keyboard👉 • Spray Painting a Mecha...
@Blacksimon - NCR80 Kit + JWICK + Cheap PBT Full Review👉 • NCR80 Kit + JWICK + Ch...
YMDK NCR-80 QMK/VIA guide👉 drive.google.com/file/d/1he5i...
🟢 MUSIC:
Epidemic Sound 👉 share.epidemicsound.com/p1d7b7
Streambeats 👉 www.streambeats.com
Full playlist👉 www.iosamfranco.com/post/zeal...
🟢 TIME CODES:
00:00 - 1) Intro
02:03 - 1.1) Video Briefing
02:44 - 1.2) Disclaimers
03:10 - 2) Zeal PC Clickiez
05:17 - Video sponsor: www.PCBWay.com
06:25 - 2.1) 3 switches in 1
08:57 - 2.2) Tactility
11:09 - 2.3) Stem Wobble
12:24 - 2.4) Sound
13:54 - 3) NCR-80 TKL
15:08 - 3.1) Why the NCR-80?
17:00 - 4) The NCR-80's build quality and design
17:09 - 4.1) The case
18:22 - 4.2) The PCB
20:22 - 4.3) The sound damping
20:40 - 4.4) The plate
21:05 - 4.5) The stabs
21:21 - 5) The NCR-80 assembly
24:01 - 6) The measurements
24:36 - 7) The looks
25:08 - 8) Configurations tested
26:10 - 9) Stock typing sound test
26:19 - 9.1) NCR-80 with stock Zeal Clickiez
27:48 - 9.2) Comparison with Cherry MX Blue
29:37 - 9.3) Comparison with Kailh BOX White
31:13 - 9.4) Comparison with Buckling Springs & Alps SKCM
34:47 - 10) Modding the Zeal PC Clickiez
36:36 - 11) Modding the NCR-80
41:09 - 12) Modded NCR-80's showcase
41:43 - 13) Modded typing sound tests
41:51 - 13.1) Lubed Zeal PC Clickiez
44:10 - 13.2) NCR-80 vs. GMMK Pro
45:14 - 14) Conclusion
45:25 - 14.1) Zeal Clickiez sound
46:52 - 14.2) Zeal Clickiez Typing Feel
47:55 - 14.3) Zeal Clickiez quality, price and value
50:27 - 14.4) Zeal Clickiez Availability
51:00 - 14.5) Zeal Clickiez Competitive analysis
51:32 - 14.6) Zeal Clickiez Target market
52:36 - 14.7) What about the NCR-80?
56:10 - 15) Outro 
Наука
An excellent demonstration of the difference a good, roomy old case can make for sound quality :D . Well done!
You've been saying this for years... Now it is officially "documented"! ;)
I wanted to show you this combo like months ago @Chyrosran22 but I'm glad you finally saw it for yourself :)
part of me was thinking you’d be here
I actually bought these switches after watching your review of them and I couldn't be more pleased!
And what's 'roomy case' in imperial units?
Oh my god. I was waiting for something like this since Clickiez were released on the market. Also, I wanted to see info about NCR-80. And you just got it all. With your dedication to the content, I know this is gonna be a great video. Thank you!
Hehe... Thank you my friend!! And let me tell you... There was some real dedication on this one! 😂 Had been working on this for a very long time! Hope you enjoy it!
this is such an excellent and thorough review, thank you for putting this all together! love the video
Always nice to read feedback like this my friend! Thank you for taking the time to write it, and I'm glad you enjoyed this video!!
Once I finish this current ultra-busy moment in my professional life now, I'll be back with more of these crazy projects here in the channel.
Thank for all the effort you put into the content and editing, I am enjoying your work very much.
And thank you for the awesome feedback my friend!!! Really appreciated! Much more good stuff coming to the channel... Stay tuned!
Absolutely great review and video. Your style and sense of humor are amazing. I usually have to skip around videos this long because my attention is awful but I watched through nearly the whole thing straight.
Thank you Keagan!!! Your feedback is super helpful and highly appreciated!
As you can imagine, it is not easy to produce such long videos, with this level of technical content, without dropping the ball at some point (usually pacing). So it is really nice to know this has been engaging enough to keep you interested in the whole thing!
Very good review! One of the best I found out there! I received my ncr80 few days ago... Can't wait to start building it with boba u4t and TX stabs! Thanks
Thanks Domenico!!! Good choice of switches by the way! I can tell you your build will sound amazing (Bobas U4T on the NCR-80 sound delicious!).
Amazing video once again. Keep the good work!
Thank you so much David!!!
We're just getting started! :)
I also did a similar build but with MT3 dasher! I also cut out strips of kilmat and filled a lot of the hollow sections of the chassis with layers of kilmat which gives it a much deeper tone while also adding quite a bit of heft. So you get a really satisfying click and a deep bassy tone on bottom out
Hey Stephen, thanks for the nice comment man! Very interesting to know that using kilmat sound damping material did not muffled or “thinned out” the sound of this board! I just might have to try it now… :)
Thank you for the in-depth analysis. Your build sounds fantastic! I've had my eye on Clickiez for a while but the strong tactility has held me back. Fingers crossed Zeal comes out with a lighter version in the future!
Thank you!!! And yeap... I'll be the first in line if they ever release those!
Ordered KBt Re 66 to try this out. Thanks for the in depth demonstration of Zeal Clickiez in a roomy case!
Nice! I'm getting mine as well (and I'm super exited for it!).
Please let me know your experience once you get yours!
You really love your hobby! Length of this video is 1 hour! And so carefully prepared with taste =) keep doing
Hehe... Thank you!!! And yeah... This channel is 100% labor of love! :)
Very well made videos, great work! By the way the Kailh Speed Bronze in my switch tester sounded very much like the Leading Edge keyboard here. I loved it. Also the Speed Pink is a very close brother to it but with a little deeper sound.
Thank you so much!!! I've heard about the Kailh Speed Bronze and the Box Pinks (both I have yet to try). And considering how cheap they are, I guess I owe it to myself to try them out on my journey to make new keyboards sound like vintage ones... Thanks for the tip!
great video! thorough as hell
Thank you friend!!! And yeah... "thorough" is the name of the game around this channel! ✌😆
Thanks! I'll have to try this on my NCR80!
Cool! While the Zeal Clickiez are expensive, it seems it started a new trend in new clicky designs (that all should sound better than MX Blues). TheKeyDotCo just released their Blackberry switches based on another vintage clicky switch design: the "Aristotle"... And which costs a more reasonable $0.65 per switch (I'll review it here soon).
In other words: one might perceive clicky switches very different when trying other types of clickies and when used on larger plastic cases (such as the NCR-80).
The best video I ever seen on keyboards. Awesome video with insane production value !
I'm in my early 30's but I discovered vintage keyboard with IBM Model M when I was 6 at my mom's work.
Spent countless time online searching how to recreate those old sound profile without success, but your video and those of Chyrosran22 showed me how to obtain my holy Graal.
Thanks you so much :)
Thank you so much for your nice words Hypnoz!!! So happy to know this video was helpful! I know all too well how rewarding it can be to finally figure out the solution to a personal “holy grail”! :)
Unicomp makes practically 1:1 clones of the Model M (until recently, they used the old Lexmark molds). They do, however, have issues with firmware, and they have no idea how to market. They're at least trying to improve, having finally replaced their worn-out molds and put out a TKL based on the IBM Model M SSK.
That said, I wish there were more options for those big ass vintage chassis. A lot of the problem with sound comes from just how light modern keyboards are made. While we've seen vast improvement in build quality, keyboards like the GMMK1/2 or the Royal Kludge RK100 are made to be as stupidly compact as possible. Not sure why, but those big chassis make the sound a bit more bassy.
I picked up this case on r2 through zfrontier and loved the format man. Looking forward to checking out the buckling spring mod you mentioned when you get to it.
Yeah, I found out after posting this video that my version of the NCR-80 was actually the R1, so I’m guessing that many of the issues I had with mine may have been already addressed in the R2 (which would make this an even better buy now, since the price doesn’t seem to have changed).
And the video about buckling spring mods to fix their ping is coming this year! (I’m always late with my upload schedule, but this one is definitely happening! :)
Very nice review. You just earned a sub, my dude.
Thank you for the sub my friend!!! Can't wait to resume making more videos like this here in the channel (will be back soon)!
Terrific video, Sam. It's too bad Matias never took the next step to add MX compatibility. I really like the Matias Quiet Clicks, they are very very tactile but also fairly lightweight. A good update of the Alps Dampened Creams.
Looking forward to the Vortex PC66 review!
Thanks man!!! Appreciated! And yeah… If Matias had done what the other Chinese entrant i-rocks seems to be doing lately (putting MX compatible stems on Alps clones 👉ruclips.net/video/U1lBN3curzk/видео.html ), I believe Matias could have taken a much bigger share of the market by now (considering the good quality of their switches).
At any rate, Matias Quiet Clicks are still adored by a small legion of typists (me included)! I have a custom build with these switches planned for the channel (since I started on RUclips 👉instagram.com/p/CEKx-jTjb8V ), which will finally arrive next year, where I put Matias Quiet Clicks on a Bakeneko 60 metal case with a XD60 PCB.
It’s a fun little project for Alps lovers looking for an “easier” way to bring the Alps feel to a more modern small-form factor premium keyboard build (that doesn’t require salvaging vintage Alps switches from crazy expensive collector boards).
Oh, and the PC66 video is arriving in January! Stay tuned… ⏳
It doesn’t even have to be MX on the PCB side just slider side they’d have my money
@@socialistsuccubus822 +1!!!
Very good video, great editing, nice flow, I love the little sprinkles of comedic relief, and despite being an hour long it didn't feel bloated or drawn out.
I have an NCR80 myself (which I bought as a meme almost a year ago), but I quickly fell in love with it and it's one of the keyboards I use the most. I've outfitted it with Gat X but you inspired me to try out some clicky switches, which until now, I have never been drawn to. So I just placed an order for some Kailh Box Whites (~25% of the price of the Zeal Clickiez in Norway).
Keep up the great work, it's insane to me that you don't have more subs. Cheers:)
Thank you so much!!! That is nice to hear man! I know long form videos like this can be really tricky to pull it off...
As for the Kailh Box whites, they are, by far, the best deal in terms of price/performance for clickies. They are crazy cheap in price and have perfect tactility!
@@IOSam Thanks for the response:) Edit! Changed my order to the Clickiez after all :D because why the hell not (and they're cool as heck).
@@clarencehehe Hehe... I know how these things go... The temptation to try new innovative products is just too much to resist (my wife never lets me forget 😂).
Let me know your experience with the Clickiez once you get to try them!
@@IOSam Hi Sam!
The clickiez arrived! The soldering/desoldering process took a few days, but now I've used the NCR80 with the Clickiez at work for two days and I absolutely love them. But they are very loud so I'm probably not gonna use them at work much longer. I haven't gotten any complaints from those around me, but I worry my colleagues are just being too polite for their own good. xd
The tactility feels great though perhaps a liiittle on the heavier side like you mentioned, the sound is sooooo crisp in the NCR80 though. Might try to lube the click-leaf in the future like you suggested, but that would mean desoldering, and i've already filled my desoldering quota for the next few months so idk.
Anyways, thanks again. Looking forward to your next video! Peace :)
Thankfully I have a couple of vintage keyboards from old computers I had back in the day.. Including a gen 2 IBM Model M and a Dell bigfoot. But if I didn't then yes, I think I would be putting one of these together. It sounds perfect.
Yeah, you're very well served there. In fact, I finally got my hands on a "new old stock" WKL bigfoot (in its original box and all) and... my goodness! That thing sounds sooo nice!!
Even though clickies are not for everyone, no doubt that I will have fun time watching another detailed gold-standard video.
Thanks, tIO Sam :-)
Mr. Bardov in the house!!! Thank you ma’ man!!!
Always happy to see you around here for my video premieres!
As on old keeb head, one of the best videos Ive ever seen, and thats including Chyrosrans vids
Thanks man!!! Highly appreciated!!! Thomas has been my favorite keyboard content creator since... ever.
But I don't have his swearing dictionary 😂, so I have to take a different approach... I do the best I can to make my videos more "educational" (than entertaining) to make them work.
By the way, as I finish to clear my queue of modern keyboard reviews, I intend to dive deep into vintage gear, so stay tuned for a bunch of 90's keyboards reviews/mods coming up around here soon!
I'm using these switches with the NK87 entry edition with pretty good results. I took out the silicone dampeners and put in a brass plate, which I think gives it a lot more character compared with using the board stock. I'm really happy with it now.
Hey Thomas! Thanks for your comment man! There was another viewer with whom I discussed this very issue here in the comments, and he did pretty much the same thing you did, also with great results.
So, after both your feedbacks I will definitely add the Clickiez to my upcoming review of the NK87 EE.
How'd you get a bras plate in the entry edition? They told me it's not compatible.
@@Strider1Wilco it'll fit just fine, you just have to take out the silicone under the plate. You're going to want to do that anyway if you don't want the clicks dampened so it's not really a problem
Very good! Snx for the video
Glad you enjoyed!! And thanks for the nice feedback!
The Kemove Ares 61(love your review) went on sale for $39 so I set one of those up fully modded with these zeal clickies and a set of gmk retrowave clones and I'm in love.
Man, an Ares61 for $39 is a freaking steal!!! 😂
While it never occurred to me to use good clickies in that chassis, I'm not surprised to hear from you that the end result was good! I love the way that case sounds with linears (after those mods I did in that video) to this day!
You know, a lot of people ask me why I don’t focus more on expensive customs that attract so much more viewers… (and I agree that if I had done that, maybe my channel would be much bigger today)
But the thing is: While I like fancy custom boards sometimes (I have quite a few of those here), I didn’t create this channel to make money or to appeal to the masses showcasing “halo products” like every other keyboard youtuber out there tries to do (except for Chyrosran, of course... He doesn't give a f*%& 🤣).
I already have a day job that pays my bills, and the reason why I still dedicate so much time to produce these videos every once in a while, is because I love the sensation of getting something relatively cheap, and then go on to mod the crap out of it to make if feel like something more expensive! That’s the biggest pay off for me, and it’s the real fun part of making this type of content…
I guess is like choosing between spending half a million dollars in a Ferrari where you just sit in and drive looking pretty, or buying a cheap Toyota 86 and modding the living daylight out of it and then go lap people with much more expensive cars in the track (while putting the other $470K in the stock market!😎)… It’s not about looking rich and fancy… It’s about having fun making something unique that no one else will experience (regardless of how much money they’re willing to spend, unless they’re willing to get their hands dirty with grease just like you).
And, by the way, getting dirty with grease is just part of the fun, right?
@@IOSam It's a super fun build. It has an almost "crunchy" sound with a slightly hollow resonance. Like biting into an apple, or small pieces of dried bamboo hitting each other.
And it seems amazon is liquidating the Ares boards. They're all on sale, brand new, for $39. I wish they had purple in stock.
This keyboard (even if it's just for its heavy metal case) is one of the most underrated production 60%'s even made! And I'm happy to have one in my collection!!
the pushpop reference made me laugh, great video. Keep it up!
Hehe... That's one of those references better understood by those who grew up in the 80's and 90's! 😆 Good times...
And thank you!!! Lots more "vintage" material coming soon! ;)
Thank you for the review! I've wanted to buy this NCR kit for a while, but I had my doubts. I am a programmer, and I've been looking for a simple keyboard without backlighting but with a vintage IBM feel. So far, this is the only case I've found in this style. The other option would be to 3D print one, but the cost would be much higher.
Truth is: this kit is still a one of a kind to this day… I’m not aware of a single large TKL, vintage style, plastic keyboard kit that can do what this one does (and for the price this one costs). So, if this form factor, material, sound profile and pricing is up your alley, there is not much thinking to do here… Just get one.
What you’ll miss in luxurious materials and finish, you’ll get back in the guttural typing sounds of yesteryear!
Fantastic vid
Thank you Jammies!!! Appreciated the nice feedback!!!
Thanks!
Wow, thank YOU my friend, for your graciousness and generosity!!! Really happy to know this content has been helpful to you! 🙏
Awesome!!
Thank you!!! 🙏
This is almost the collab we all want haha
Hehe... Wouldn't that be something? I have a buddy in the Netherlands, so if I ever go over there, I'll buzz Thomas to talk keyboards and trash the Imperial system over Dutch beer... I'm sure that would make for great content! 😂
And yeah... Vintage boards (and now my NCR-80) are forbidden around here except when working from home and with no calls! lol... These things make quite a ruckus!
Apparently, the notches cut out of the corners of the clickleaf in Clickiez was done to reduce the pitch of the click. This can be seen in the comparison between early prototypes of Clickiez and the final version (which also includes a comparison with the ProWorld switches). I'm not sure how that works. but it does. The lower pitch probably also has partly to do with the switch housing material.
I'm glad to see another enjoyer of voluptuous, resonant keyboards.
While I didn’t mention that fact in my video, I remember seeing someone mentioning that somewhere (not sure if it was Thomas Ran or someone else). And after checking some sound comparisons between the Clickiez and the Pro-World, it seems this was indeed a wise design decision, since the Clickiez does sound much better IMO. I suppose this is the type of stuff that can make a new switch design take as long as the Clickiez did… But it was worth it!
As for “voluptuous, resonant keyboards” enjoyers… we might be few, but we’re definitely not going extinct anytime soon! 😁
You convinced me to give ‘em a shot! Preordered clickiez and a vortex p66
Hehe... Welcome to the club!
I'm counting the days to get mine too!
@IO Sam, I just got my shipping notification! Hope yours also is on the way and I can’t wait for the video about it.
@@johnjbateman So you're getting it before me! XD
But I think mine might be shipping pretty soon as well, considering MK's estimates...
This man is a legend!
🙏🙏🙏 Truly humbled by your nice words my friend!!! Thank you!
I think an alps click leaf is the ultimate vertical force drop technology fundamentally.
Cuz the spring doesn't just hit a flat spot on the plastic it basically yeets itself into another timezone and it's that disengage action that does the trick.
That is true! Which is why no clicky Cherry MX switch had been able to emulate the same feel of Blue SKCM until now: the way in which the Alps achieves tactility (and sound) is so different from what we had with Cherry Blues. So, it is nice to finally have a viable option on the MX world with the Zeal Clickiez.
The only issue here is the “weight”, of course, which still feels much steeper than Blue Alps… But despite that, it is still the best clicky MX design alternative out there for Blue Alps enthusiasts.
awesome video and wonderful detailed explanation of the switches, the chassis interaction, everything. I very much enjoyed watching this. Did you ever test out these switches in the Vortex KBT RE68? Interested to hear about it if so. As you described, I am an older guy who grew up on 90s PCs and the sound of those vintage ALPS is simply unmatched by anything on the market today which is kind of astounding considering the huge variety of choice available these days. I have a Focus FK2001 with ALPS blue, an Apple IIGS keyboard with Monterry Blues and tophat keycaps, and both of those, IMO, are better than any keyboard available brand new today in terms of sound at least for the chassis/switch combos I have heard or tried. I was talking about this with a coworker last week which is what led me here after he said, "really, there isn't anything nowadays that can come close?" It would be amazing if someone could marry the sound of yesterday with the keycap choice and reliability of modern products. Maybe someday. Looks like Zeal has still not come out with a less tactile version either. :/
Thank you so much!! And I did try a couple of innovative clicky switches on the Vortex PC66 (I couldn’t get the KBT version of this board, but other than the KBT branding, it is basically the same thing) and after removing its silicone dampers, it sounded great! Not as good as the much larger NCR80, but good enough for a small 65% board.
While I wanted to have produced this video ages ago, between a new day job and a house move this year, all RUclips projects got severely delayed… But I hope to get back on track later this year and the Vortex PC66 will be one of the first keyboard videos I’ll put out from my new studio.
As for trying to get the same feel of a Focus FK2001 on a modern chassis with MX style switches, I don’t think that will ever be possible unfortunately… Clicky keyboards don’t get any better than blue or white Alps on plastic vintage boards I’m afraid. Other than the Vortex PC66, I have a few other spacious plastic boards here that I intend to show how they sound with some of the newer types of clicky switches that have arrived in the market in the last 18 months or so. But while they sound better than any gaming keyboard with Cherry Blues, I don’t think any of them can beat a classic 90’s board with blue Alps.
And while Zeal didn’t release a lighter Clickiez, Gateron came out with something very close (Melodic switches) in terms of typing feel that does feel lighter than the Clickiez, but it doesn’t sound as good. So, for now, we still don’t have a perfect replacement for Alps SKCM White or Blue unfortunately.
At any rate, I have a ton of interesting projects to fit Alps switches on modern custom boards, and those will definitely land here in the channel (although probably only next year, after I spend months rebuilding my studio 😰).
Damn that NCR-80 sounds nice. I just wish they had a version that had N key rollover, cause if they did then I'd be sold.
Yeah... The N-key rollover was definitely one of the low points of this kit! And one more positive for the Vortex KBt line, which has a more modern PCB design in that regard.
I have an old VTCL-2269 keyboard from my childhood, and the SMK Cherry MX mount switches in it produce a sound that is very nostalgic to me. It is my favorite keyboard sound. I am very early in the video while typing this and I'm wondering if this switch can emulate the same sound and feel.
I have a Chicony KB-5981 with SMK switches (although it is the one with Alps mounting) and yes... It does sound very similar to Blue Alps. Which in turn, as you saw and heard on the comparisons I made on the video, sound similar to the Zeal Clickiez on the NCR-80.
I have a few more videos where I'll cover modern boards that can sound (and feel) like vintage keyboards coming, so stay tuned! ⏳
I have the clickiez 40g in Stellar65 stacked acrylic board with dsa milkshake keycaps. It's finger-licking delicious! The roomy acrylic board acts like the resonance chamber. And the clickiez's clear body and RGB in acrylic board's quite a perfect match!!
Oh, also I got the clickiez, stellar65 and dsa milkshake all with heavy discounts during Black Friday/Cyber Monday. Couldn't be any happier. :)
I always liked the sound of stacked acrylic boards (even cheapo ones like the one I tested here, still sound great if properly tuned! 👉ruclips.net/video/sTQfpqbskfw/видео.html ).
I have never tried clickies on them before... But it makes sense that this would be a nice sounding combo!
Getting what we want at heavy discounts... I like the sound of that! 😆
While I didn't buy as much stuff this BF as I did in previous years, I still managed to get a few heavily discounted switches and keycap sets... So, it was still a net positive shopping season.
As much as I dislike mx blues, as much I was surprised how solid and consistent sounds your build, great job
Haha!!! Thanks man!! As an MX Blues "disliker" myself, I take your praise in very high regard! 😂
Not quite vintage in looks, but I paired my Zeal Clickiez with a NovelKeys NK85 Entry Edition, and removed the silicone dampening pad inside the case(though kept the dampener between the plate and PCB out of laziness), and the sound that the mixture creates is phenomenal! Absolutely reminiscent of older SKCM boards - This coming from someone with multiple Omnikeys, including a gold badge 102 with really clean SKCM Blues, and a Focus 5001(which offers the best comparison due to all plastic case).
Interesting... As you saw in the video, I have an NK87 EE here. But I didn't test the clickies in it because I knew the silicone slab would kill the low frequency sound (and figured that removing it would make the board too light).
But maybe I'll try removing the silicone and doing some sort of weight mod just to plant the keyboard in the desk... Ideas are flowing now... 🤔
@@IOSam @IO Sam I haven't finished the video yet, but I am quite excited to, I love the Clickiez!
The board is certainly considerably lighter after removing it, however it's not so light that it makes it slide around on my desk or anything. The silicone feet on the NK87 EE do a great job keeping it in place. I do use a deskmat though, so maybe that helps?
@@lordmissingno True... Both NK EE boards have really good grippy feet. I'll definitely play around with this for my upcoming review of the NK87 EE.
I love the sound on both boards, but the NCR board really brings out the clickiez sound.
It definitely does! I'm currently testing a few other options of plastic keyboards (with different layouts) to see which ones can have a similar effect on clicky switches sound. Hopefully coming to the channel before the end of the year! ⏳
Pro tip: you can save a lot of time making the surface of the case "smooth" if you use an automotive "filler" primer rather than just a regular "thin" primer. The filler primer goes on quite thick and is designed to fill all the minor variations, bumps, and scratches in the surface. You'll still need to sand a couple of times but it reduces the number of sanding times required dramatically.
That is an appreciated pro tip! (anything to reduce the number of sanding sessions!!🙏)
But automotive filler is not a spray, is it? Maybe I’m wrong, but I think the last time I saw something like this it looked like a “putty”.
@@IOSam auto filler comes in many formats. One of the common ones is as a putty. However, automotive primer/filler also comes in a rattle spray can. It is the one in the spray can that I am suggesting
@@nanashiboyz Awesome! Thanks again man!! Do you have a brand that you prefer (or any recommended specification that you think would be the best for plastics)? I take it that you have some experience with this, so I'd really appreciate your recommendation.
I use the Rustoleum primer/filler because it is widely available and reasonably priced but they are all basically the same I think@@IOSam
My IBM Model M from 1988 has blemishes on the bottom where the support structures inside the shell are so this isn't just a thing with modern recreations of vintage keyboards it's just a general thing with large injection molded plastics.
True... But with the Model M these injection marks were usually in the bottom (or on the inside), so at least on the main surface you'd always get a more homogeneous texture.
With the NCR-80 though, those big marks on the keyboard's forehead are very much in your face (and were constantly triggering my OCD... 😂). But I don't lose track of the fact that a Model M used to cost hundreds of dollars when new back in the day, while an NCR-80 is a far cheaper product nowadays, so naturally quality compromises have to be done here.
Just finished building an NCR-80 with Arctic Fox Switches. I have so say, in terms of tactility they're just right and i think they're even louder :P Really love em. Thanks for the awesome review. When I was talking to YMDK about mounting the plate (mine didn't come with screws for the plate at all) they told me to just pressure fit the plate with the switches (like how you would mount them to the plate before soldering on a regular board right) and I just thought it was the funniest thing ever.
Thank you! This is the most fun video I have ever done in this channel, and is the kind of video I want to make more of going forward.
I have yet to try some Artic Foxes myself... I know they're one of the loudest switches out there, so that should be interesting! 😂
As for the lack of screws to attach plates on hot-swap boards, I hate that! lol
I get it that you don't need screws for soldered boards, but with hot-swap ones it is such a hassle to install switches without them... And it's not like it would cost them a fortune to put a few screws in the box, eh?
Mine didn't come with any standoffs or screws either, but I have a plate support fork that prevents the plate from bending while I insert the switches.
@@jeremyquiros5483Interesting! Where did you get this fork thing?
I think my second comment got auto pruned for having a link, but I thought it might happen:
Loved the video.
It's great to have a long-form review on something that's really interesting in the hobby. I love that you mentioned blacksimon's review because that's how I first found out about the ncr80.
As for the lighter springs for clickiez I may have an answer. It's possibly a case like the kailh box jades/navies where a lighter spring just won't return the switch, especially if you have higher profile keycaps, and double the problem for the spacebar. The box navy will only take a spring about as light as a 55 I think. I tried some 45's and even those didn't work. 35's or 30's had no hope even without a keycap on.
You could try some 30g and 35g springs to see just how light you can go before the switch won't return. Not many places stock good quality springs that light, but prevail has sprit springs that have an average variance of apparently less than 0.5g.
Thank you my friend! Your comment is very much appreciated! As for your comment getting blocked by RUclips, that is why I have set up a subreddit for this channel (www.reddit.com/r/IOSam )... I think Reddit is a much better platform for the types of public longer discussions I want to have with members of this community (like you). If for nothing else, Reddit has solved the spam problem years ago (while RUclips still struggles with this).
As for my long form videos, while these types of videos don’t trend on RUclips, that is perfectly fine by me. I don’t produce these videos for the masses anyway… My goal here is to attract a very different audience than most other channels in this hobby are vying for (which curiously seems to be the same situation with both Chyrosran and Blacksimon, two guys that have my utmost admiration and respect for the way they approach their topics).
And to that effect, I couldn’t be happier with the results! Since the comments on my videos show that I am succeeding in my goal to attract smart, polite and well-educated people who care about much more than just the latest shinny ~$500 custom keyboard kit. Nothing against those kits, of course… But we know there is much more to this hobby than just competing to see who builds the most expensive custom keyboard.
On the subject of excessive tactility of the Zeal Clickiez, I actually don’t blame its coil spring for what amounts to the “heavy tactility”. The truth is that the tactile leaf included here, kinda changes the logic we have been accustomed to within the Cherry MX world of the last couple of decades.
And I agree with you that using a lighter spring in the Clickiez would likely “break” the switch (in the sense that it could prevent the stem from returning). I think the secret to changing the tactility force in this design (based on my own experience with these switches and with Alps SKCMs) relies on making a clicky leaf that is less stiff and with tactile teeth bent in a wider angle… In other words: doing what Alps did with the SKCM series in the past.
I am convinced Zeal released these two extremely tactile versions of the clickiez based on this hobby’s constant screams for switches with more extreme tactility --something that was needed when we only had brown switches, but that I think has been mostly addressed/resolved since the “invention” of holy panda style of switches (and anything more tactile than that might start to detract from the experience).
As a result of many reviews that are pointing out that even the “lighter” 40g Clickiez still has too much tactility, I’m pretty sure Zeal will release a new version of this switch at some point with a modified click leaf that will bring down the tactility to a more manageable level (and they might not even need to change anything about the coil spring’s specs to achieve that).
In the meantime though, I am actually pretty happy with my lubed 40g Clickiez. They are still the most tactile keyboard I have ever used (by a long margin), but they are now into what I consider “usable territory” in their modded state.
I would like somebody to go down memory lane with well known keyboards from the 80’s. Think Apple, Amiga etc.
It’s not a coincidence after watching your video that I’m seeing Nicorette ads on RUclips is it :-)
😂 The Nicorette ads are incriminating indeed! LOL...
But jokes aside, Thomas (Chyrosran22) has been, up to this point, the only youtuber who has consistently covered vintage keyboards going back as far as early Apple II and older (although I don't think he ever covered Commodore or Amiga keyboards).
I have seen other retro computing channels covering those types of keyboards (LGR, Retro Recipes, Tech Tangents, etc), but very sporadically, since they don't necessarily focus on keyboards.
Now, while I am a small collector of vintage keyboards (my collection pales in comparison to Thomas' catalogue for example), I definitely have aspirations to go deeper into vintage territory... I'm just gonna need a bit more time, but I'll get there eventually.
Thanks for clarifying why someone like me doesnt just get a model f or m from ebay.
1. Price is ridiculous
2. Severely old tech that you have to buy adapters for.
3. Lack of customization and modern colors.
Why i love that vintage look and authentic feel, i still would like the option of swapping the usb cable for a coiled replaceable one and swap the switches for whatever i want like zeal clickies or kaihl navys.
Right now i have my eye on the 8bitdo c64 version where im gonna install kailh navys just to see how it feels. It has alot of features and i love the retro look with SA keycaps.
Im not at that stage where i want to build my own kb... yet anyway. But ideally, i want to get the command 65 kb case with zeal clickies
8bitdo seems to be killing it right now with their retro inspired boards. I keep seeing people raving about them on Reddit. As for “building your own keyboard” in 2024, it seems it is as optional as ever (as far as practical reasons go). Production keyboards are 1000X better today than they were just 3 or 4 years ago! It’s kinda crazy (and awesome!) really…
So, your idea of getting an 8bitdo c64 + SA or MT3 caps + Clickiez sounds like an incredibly nice build, that will feel as good as a vintage board without any of the hassle of going ‘full vintage’ or ‘full custom’.
Please do a review on the Unicomp Classic 104 with buckling springs switches!
I will definitely do a classic Model M (mine was made in the mid 90's) video at some point (which is 98% the same as a new Unicomp Classic anyway). But right now, the only Unicomp board I have on hand is the Mini-M, which I will most definitely make a video on (as soon as I can get back to my "regular" video production schedule, that is :).
@@IOSam Thanks for answering! Do not worry about your schedule, personal matters take priority . Looking forward to your review!
Great review again 😄, have to say - I prefer the JAKEMY 8 Torque screwdriver. My Wowstick died after only 6 months.
Thanks man!!! And nice recommendation!!! This JAKEMY one won me on the USB-C connection already! 😂
@@IOSam Yeah, it's really good! Love it! Great tool for small electronics
I'd be interested to get your take on the Matias clicky switches.
Man, I have a Matias project in the works for literally years now... But unfortunately, since last year, life keeps getting in the way...
But I have all the parts to build a Matias 60% board (I have a batch of clicky and "quiet clicky" switches, that I haven't decided which way to go, or if I should put the clicky leaf on the quiet clicky body, as Chyrosran did years ago on his channel and ended up recommending it).
I also have 3 other projects of custom TKLs with vintage Alps boards (Geon Frog with SKCM Orange Alps, Geon F1-8X with Ambers, and FreeBird with Whites). Again, all parts on hand, but didn't have the time to build them yet. Hopefully the keyboard gods will bless me with a bit of extra time in the next few months to finally produce all these videos.
I've got a Matias board on the way and I'm very tempted to buy these so I can de-solder my old Razer board and put these in it. The cases on the older Razer boards are decently roomy, I feel like it could be a good place for these switches.
With just enough dampening to remove some spring ping.
I have been tempted to get a Matias build keyboard for years now, but have yet to pull the trigger on one. I do have their (damped tactile) switches for a future custom build project though. I think they do the best Alps clones out there to this day.
As for Razer older mechanical boards, yeah... I agree that some 5 years or older BlackWidow would make for a good host to some Zeal Clickiez indeed (they are much better built than a Cherry G80 for such a project).
@@IOSam the only wonder I have is whether or not it has fixing pins...
Cause if they don't I'd feel awful mutilating these switches, even if cutting them off doesn't matter so much in the long run.
@@LaskyLabs That is a good point... From my experience, pretty much all soldered production keyboards that use plates (which are almost all of them except the G80) will not have the holes for PCB mounted switches... Which means you'd have to mutilate your new switches to be able to use them.
My next video will be about renewing a 2012 Vortex KBTalking Pure (the first modern 60% mechanical keyboard), which also happens to be plateless (such as the G80) and, as such, has the proper holes for me to replace the original Cherry switches (which I used Zeal Zealios in this case).
But the Vortex Pure is a one of kind board (not really a "production" keyboard in any sense)... 99% of production boards out there (especially ones that are already a few years old by now) will use plates and thus not have the proper holes for PCB mounted switches.
I read you can't easily swap springs in these because of the gateron cap mold. Could you clear that up, any difficulty in finding compatible springs?
You are correct in that matter. Regular MX springs sold for switch modding WILL NOT fit Gateron Cap switches (which the Clickiez technically are). So, until aftermarket suppliers of mechanical switch springs (such as TX or Sprit) start producing and selling springs specifically designed to fit Gateron Cap style switches, you'll be stuck with the stock springs that come with the Clickiez.
At any rate, if you’re think about replacing the Clickiez’s springs to reduce its peak force, that would probably not work, since the source of the Clickiez peak force is the click/tactile leaf design and not necessarily it’s coil spring. In fact, given how tight the click leaf is, even if you could replace the Clickiez stock spring for a lighter compatible one, you’d run the risk of the stem not returning/resetting to the initial position, since the force exerted by the click leaf could be greater than that of the coil spring. And in that case, your switch stem would get stuck in the middle.
So, while the Clickiez design is very innovative, it does not come without its fair share of potential problems (especially for switch modders).
sam is back in the game.
Here for the long run!!! 👊😁
Do you think that the Zeal Clickiez let enough light through to be used with pudding style switches? Btw great video.
Thank you!!! And yes... The fully transparent housing works great to let RGB through in all directions. So pudding caps would look great on these!
Man - I'd love that keyboard if they built it in a full 104 key layout.
Well... Yeah... We unfortunately can't get a hot-swappable full size G80.
But, with a lot of patience, one can get an actual Cherry G80 (Cherry still makes these brand new to this day!) and replace the switches (with a desoldering gun) with these Zeal Clickiez.
It would be a lot of work (and quite expensive), but still doable... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
21:20 - 22:00 and next - American Psycho flashbacks😂
😂😂 Hey... let's put that OCD to work on something positive instead, eh?
@@IOSam Yes Sir! o7
Could you recommend a different spray coat product similar to the quality of ez coat? I want to paint mine dark grey.
I can safely recommend Rust-Oleum products for these types of jobs: amzn.to/3VSu0xP --Everything I've ever tried from them worked well for me.
Just ensure you're getting the correct finish (gloss, satin or matte) for your project and you should be fine.
@@IOSam Thank you so much! It's tremendously helpful 😀
I really like your vids
Thanks man!!! Very much appreciated!!!
Interestingly, the soldered PCB for the NCR-80 R3 has ALPS compatibility now.
Now, that is good news!!! Or bad...since now I'll end up buying another one! 😂
@@IOSam Lol, same for me.
Though I should’ve mentioned YMDK doesn’t sell an ALPS-compatible plate, nor does anyone else right now. @Karolus, the channel from which I learned about the ALPS compatibility, plans to sell ALPS plates for the NCR-80, but I don’t see anything on their site yet.
@@jeremyquiros5483 Interesting! I'll definitely keep an eye out for this project! At any rate, it shouldn't be too difficult to design an Alps plate for the NCR80, given it's simple design.
And a plate will definitely be needed for Alps here, since it would be a nightmare to try to solder Alps switches without one (given their lack of alignment pins of any kind).
So, I'm sorry for the dumb question, but it it possible to assemble the NCR80 with a PrintScreen-ScrollLock-Pause kay cluster instead of LEDs? Do the case, PCB, and plate actually allow this?
Unfortunately not. The case is not modular in that way and the PCB doesn't have switch sockets in that area. However, you do have VIA compatibility in the latest PCB models, so you'll be able to easily put those functions on a second layer of that cluster.
@@IOSam I am now looking at Vortex Model M SSK (plastic case version), which seems to have a more standard layout and a roomy plastic case. I will be very curious how Clickiez sound in it...
Great in depth review. I’ve been watching clickiez from the sidelines hoping to be a better option for modern alps like, but the tactile force is a bit too much for my liking to buy. Like yourself, I had a chance to try a dc-2014 with skcm blues and there’s just something special about that configuration. Price is reasonable if you consider to buy skcm blues in board or scavenged is that they are usually $3-6 usd, switch condition varies, and you need an alps compatible PCB.
Thanks man!!! Yeah... I'm working on a bunch of Alps based "modern" builds for future videos here in the channel, where I'll explore this very topic: how to salvage good Alps switches and then how to build a new keyboard based on them.
It takes real dedication, since this is not an easy/quick process... Finding compatible cases, PCBs, plates and keycaps for Alps is much more difficult than for MX (although, not impossible, as I intend to show in these upcoming videos).
At any rate, I give Zeal some points for their effort to try to bring some of Alps traits to the much more popular MX world. I have to think they will eventually bring a lighter version of this switch to the market... I'll definitely be in line waiting for those when they come out!
@@IOSam What about using Matias clicky switches, which are Alps-style, available new, and pretty cheap?
@@Steve_Mazza I have a build exactly like what you're describing planned for the channel since 2020! 👉 instagram.com/p/CEKx-jTjb8V --Matias tactile Alps clones on a Bakeneko 60%.
I have a bunch of Alps builds (plus vintage Alps boards) to cover here, but I decided to wait for the channel to grow a bit before I'd start to introduce vintage content to the channel.
But 2023 will be the year I'll finally branch out into other types of [arguably much more interesting] content, including my Alps builds... Which is my real passion within this hobby!
@@IOSam Neat, thanks! It's really exciting to see a few different switches in the last few years. Maybe Matias clicky is too heavy and clicky for some, but the introduction of the Zeal Clickiez and the various Kailh BOX switches gives some additional options (and easier keycap selection!).
I think the switch should have had a box top. It would give you longer rails more similar to old alps switches. I think I will make a 3d printed clamping tool for a vice to change the leaf angle.
I think Kailh holds a patent on the box top design, so Zeal probably couldn’t do it with Gateron as the OEM. But it would be indeed cool if Kailh came out with their version of this design…
(you think you could 3D print such a small clamp to fit inside of the switch? -I’d definitely be curious to see something like this!)
@@IOSam No you'd take the leafs out and put them into the the jig and then clamp them to the right angle using a vise.
@@philipp594 Oh, now I see what you mean... That's a pretty nifty idea indeed!
Is it possible to transplant a click leaf from Alps or Matias switches into Clickiez, or are they incompatible?
Unfortunately, no. They are incompatible (Alps or Matias click leaves are much larger). As far as I know, the Clickiez are a unique project 100% owned by Zeal. So it doesn't share parts' dimensions with any other switches in existence today.
@@IOSam That’s unfortunate. Thanks for letting me know; maybe Zeal will eventually make a new issue of Clickiez.
I've used these switches in a few different configs and lubed and unlubed and here's what I've found-
-Real alps switches tend to prefer soft FR4, POM, CF plates but these use what's basically a cherry housing so I've actually found that aluminum, steel, harder materials tend to sound better with these.
-One thing they have in common with real alps switches is that they greatly prefer tall ABS keycaps. PBT keycaps don't quite click or "rasp" like ABS, even moreso than real alps. Real alps tend to be bassy even with PBT keycaps, these just don't make the same sound so I think ABS works better
-keycap profile also matters. These barely ring out at all with XDA or similar profile caps, but OEM profile, Tai Hao Cubic profile, and I'm assuming true SA will do these switches well.
All in all, these are better than most MX switches, tactility is a little more subtle than box switches, great addition to the clicky switch and tactile switch lineup here.
Thanks man! Great tips all around!!
I do have Alps on FR4 coming up on two other video projects. And I agree that a hard plate (carbon fiber in the case of the NCR-80) works very well with heavy MX style switches in a project aimed for deep sound like this.
As for ABS vs. PBT, I guess it comes down to personal preference. I have Alps boards with ABS (thick Cherry and thin DCS) and thick PBT and they all have their own use cases (and pros and cons). The interesting thing about the set I used with the NCR-80 is that it feels like a PBT + ABS blend (like Akko keycaps) that have a much smoother touch than pure PBT. So, I suspect that these caps sound less “muffled” than a pure PBT set usually does. But if you want more sound volume from a clicky keyboard (or any type of switch really), than yeah… ABS is the surte ticket to ride.
For profile, absolutely! The taller the profile, the deeper the sound. I love MT3 precisely for that reason (although I cannot use it with Alps). For the NCR-80 I decided to go with Cherry just to try to be more “historically accurate” with the keyboard’s design (inspired on the Cherry G80) than anything else… But I’m confident it would sound even better with SA, ASA, MT3 or even Cubic or OEM.
As for clickies, I have upcoming videos covering the new TKC Blueberry (inspired on the Aristotle), Kailh Box Pink, Alps SKCM White and Mattias Quiet Clicks.
I've watched this more times than I should have, and I still get a good laugh at the "Never lube stem legs on tactile switches" bit. 😆😆😆
How about one topic that is often hit or miss: Keycap interference and should that matter?
Hehe... That "dogma" was always a pet peeve of mine in this hobby... It's Ok to let people tone down the tactility of their switches a bit if they prefer it that way! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The topic of "north-facing switch sockets are always bad" might as well be the other one! 😂
I think there is a place for north-facing switches in this hobby, since there are people out there (who are not necessarily "gamers") and do enjoy backlighting, as well as people that like other keycap profiles other than Cherry...
At any rate, even with Cherry caps, it is still possible to avoid interference as I showed in my last video 👉ruclips.net/video/mF2aqtYb_e0/видео.html
But even when interference occurs, I would bet money that 9 out of 10 people would not be able to tell the difference on a blind test. So yeah... People sometimes blow these things out of proportion for sure.
When Keyboard-boomer-jesus is commenting on your videos you know you did something right when it comes to reviewing an alps tribute switch.
EDIT: Also I'm so glad that the first video after Chyrosran's that I'm watching on these is from you. These long form videos are exactly the kind of thing I want to see about a switch that costs this much.
ROFL... "Keyboard-boomer-jesus" might be the best unofficial title Thomas ever got!!!
And let me tell you that if you like long form videos about keyboards, you might have come to the right place! XD
If you think that's expensive, then you probably don't want to know how much my Model F repro cost me :P
did you ever test the clickiez in the vortex pc66?
I got the PC66 here already (love the keyboard by the way), but life got in the way and I was not able to shoot this video yet. BUT, I'm about to start producing the looong awaited Vortex PC66 with both Zeal Clickiez and TKC Blackberry clicky switches in the next few days. So, stay tuned for that... ⏳
@@IOSam dope!
io sam upload, today is a good day
And I hope it keeps getting better! 👊😆
Thanks man!!!
What;s your opinion on White Owl, is them better then Whites? I watched this video and you campared Zealpc to Whites.
While I haven't tried the white owl yet, it seems that it is an upgraded version of the regular white clicky with an ever so slightly heavier tactility. So I'd assume this is a version with tighter manufacturing tolerances, which can only be a good thing.
Naturally, it won't be as heavy as the Zeal Clickiez, which shouldn't be a problem for the vast majority of typists (in fact I'd prefer if Zeal had a lighter version of Clickiez).
The main attraction for Zeals in my opinion is the way the feel and sound, which is very unique. But as for a more reasonably priced (and very enjoyable) clicky, Kailh Whites are my standard recommendation, so I don't think I'd have any problems recommending the new White Owls as well.
Amazing overview! As an "older millennial" who started typing on Model Ms in school in the 90s, the chance to own an Alps-like new keyboard is an opportunity I could only have dreamed of some years back. I thought about trying Matias switches, but all accounts are that the Matias Alps whites clones fail quickly and often. Thoughts on the Matias switches?
Thanks man! While I have Matias switches here waiting to be used on a build (both quiet clicks and linears), I didn't get around to complete a build with them yet to be able to test them (and I have also never tested a Matias pre-built/production keyboard).
What I do know about Alps in general, and Matias in particular, (from reading other people's anecdotal accounts in forums over the years) is that they don't like lube and tend to fail (chatter) when manually lubed. Now, I don't know if that is because people overlube them, or because they apply lube on the wrong parts of the switch, or because they use the wrong type of lube.
So, a custom project with Matias (as well as other types of Alps clones that I already have in my inventory) is definitely in the wings here, since I am truly curious to see how they feel and how well they work on a custom board.
At any rate, just from testing them individually, I can tell their springs are noisy and crunchy. So, what I will probably do in my custom build with Matias switches, will be to replace the stock springs with a higher quality set from Sprit.
@@IOSam Looking forward to that video!
@@IOSam Interesting though that even those who purchase the official Matias Tactile Pro, without any additional modding, report the same chatter and failure issues. I can't seem to find a recent review of the Matias Tactile Pro from a keyboard enthusiast I trust either!
@@treighpedroche1516 Yeah, I think Thomas (Chyrosran) is the only one who has tested a few models, but his reviews for those are pretty old now. Then there is the issue with us (keyboard reviewers), that rarely get to use a single keyboard for long enough to spot long term issues (such as QC problems that will only show up after years of use).
So this will be a case where Deskthority (and possibly Reddit) reviews and comments (from real users) would be the only record of actual long term experience with Matias boards QC.
What is the tool that he uses to lube the switch at 35:55 ?
Hi Sean, that is an eyelash micro brush (amzn.to/3iUsQkr ) that I use to lube switches. I find those to be much easier to use (to apply the correct amount of lubricant on switches) than a regular oil or water color paintbrush.
Perhaps the Kailh Box Pink is what you're looking for? Unfortunately, I can't find them anywhere anymore.
Interesting... I have tried the Box White (light weight), Jade (mid-to-heavy weight) and Navy (very heavy weight), but never tried the Pink (light-to-mid weight).
Novelkeys seems to still have them in stock in the US... And that gives me ideas... 🤔
(Thanks for the suggestion!)
@@IOSam I was hoping to see a comment about the pinks or jades. Both are much lower-pitched than whites are. I think the pinks are even lower than the jades, slightly. The pinks are also more evenly balanced between weighting and tactility like you may have noticed about the navies, if that matters.
You've got another vote for box pinks to compare, if the jades are too stiff for you. I have an aversion to hot swap sockets due to their lack of ruggedness so my only board that has them is a Drop Alt ... far from the sort of case these switches deserve for a proper comparison.
Fantastic video. This is the sort of content that needs more exposure.
@@xb0xisbetter Thanks man!! Loved the feedback! And yeah… After a few people strongly recommending Box Pinks, I have a batch on its way to me as we speak. I have two more videos where I’ll make experiences with modern keyboards with plastic enclosures and modern [good] clicky switches:
One is the Vortex PC66 with TKC Blueberries (a new reproduction of a similar design to vintage Aristotle switches) and the other is with 3 models of Iqunix boards (with large 75% cases) where one of them will have Box Pinks.
Both should be very interesting experiments in the quest of getting vintage sounds out of modern in-stock keyboards!
@@IOSam PC66 and NCR-80 are both on my radar as another home for Clickiez. I like the thought of PC66 being relatively compact but still nice and roomy for good sound as well.
I have some Aristotles, by pure coincidence. Happened to be in an old board I swapped jades into.
That all sounds like some great tests to try. With any luck, videos like that can help bring clicky switches back into the limelight. I'll be looking forward to the PC66 and box pink videos.
I really wanted to put clickiez with my ncr80, they would sound so good with the 12v solenoid i slapped in there, but i really cant justify the price of the switch for myself
Yeah... And I don't blame you! This new switch is on the extreme end of the "early adopter curve" and brings the cost associated with that. So waiting is highly advised for any cost-conscious enthusiast out there!
At any rate, I can see this new switch shaking things up in this industry to a point where we're going to see more new designs coming out from the big switch manufacturers and designers as a response to this (if for nothing else, it will give a "shot in the arm" for new clicky designs, something we had not seen in a while)...
So, in the end, I think this release will bring benefits to this hobby in the long run.
@@IOSam this is basically100% of what im feeling with the release of these switches! the future for clicky switches is definitely brighter with the clickiez, and i'm willing to wait any amount for large manufacturers to bring out competitive prices if the market demands!
Ayy, here we go again 😊
👊😆
exhaustive thorough! i love it though clickies aren't my cup of tea
Hehe... "Exhaustive" and "thorough" are the name of the game around here! 😂 Thank you!!!
These is one upcoming old style keyboard , command65.
Yeah... I missed the GB... :-/
Hoping they'll bring it back for a round 2... That Commodore 64 inspired design is fantastic!
Great video as always. The build sounds fantastic! I think another option for a roomy plastic case might be an old Cherry MX board. I have a Chicony with Cherry MX Blues in it which would be a decent chassis for a project like this. Of course, that would involve desoldering which is always a pain.
Thank you!!! And yeah... Repurposing an old Cherry MX board would be the ideal case here (pun totally intended!). Not surprisingly, that is exactly what some people are already doing 😏: www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/v6y8xa/zeal_clickiez_in_a_board_from_1983_sort_of_giving/
You gotta make more videos
Thanks man!!! And yeah, I know… While I was able to improve the cadency a bit more in 2022 (compared to the previous year), I still had so much to learn about video production…
But we’re getting there! 2023, will bring much more content around here, so stay tuned!⏳
Now all we need is for Zeal to make a modern version of skcm browns, so we will finally have an actually rounded switch that doesn’t use rubber domes. Then I can mount it in a CaesarsLegion-80.
I have in very good authority that this is precisely what they are working on as we speak! 👀
Our wishes of a modern rendition of the SKCM Browns could soon be fulfilled! 🙏
@@IOSam Bro I signed a contract to buy my first apartment today and npw I get these great news on top of that.
Today has been a good day.
Funnily enough I actually prefer super tactile switches, so a zeal skcm style switch might actually be my end game.
@@Zentennen Hehe... Congrats on the new home man!!!
As for a modern SKCM Brown... Think about it... All Zeal has to do here is to slightly modify the click leaf (to not click and to reduce the peak force from 100 to 70 grams) and boom! There you have it: "Zeal Brownies"!!!
Damn! I should trademark that... 🤔
@@IOSam Wouldn't you have to modify the click leaf teeth as well, so make the tactile bump rounder? I noticed both the skcm brown and neon greens have rounder teeth.
As for the NCR-80, it would be very cool to see some comparisons between it and the GMMK Pro (or some other standard hotswap keyboard) for other switches. I wouldn't be surprised if they also sounded much better in the NCR-80.
@@Zentennen Absolutely! The process to reduce the peak force would be to use a thinner metal leaf (less stiff than the one they use in the Clickiez) and changing the angle and the shape of the teeth to something more akin to the SKCM Browns.
And yes... Now that I have the NCR-80 here, you bet all my switch reviews foing forward will have cameos by this guy! ;)
Nice mouse too 😉
You mean the Glorious Model D Wireless?
That is still my favorite ergo wireless mouse for the price!
@@IOSam It is the best mouse 😁
I'm intrigued but phew those prices >_>
Yeah... These things are definitely not an impulse buy (especially when trying to fill up a TKL 😖)!
@@IOSam I assume the cost comes from the 3-in-1 feature, but I have to wonder how many people will actually take advantage of that
@@redetrigan Agreed... I definitely think the main reason to get these should be the clicky mode (for the novelty) or the tactile (for heavy typists who are tactile junkies). But it is a massive commitment for sure.
Remember when people hated linear switches about 10+ years ago? Now what do we see; and it's only from the people that who've only recently gotten into the scene. (by the way, your channel is amazing. The quality and formatting are not notch.)
Thank you my friend!!! And you're spot on! I remember very well when I got my first Cherry MX Reds keyboard in 2012, how critical people were about it (on the few sites that covered mechanical keyboards back then).
It's just trends really... And nowadays, with how fast these trends move, these opinions are bound to change even faster.
Which is why I always tell people: don't get too fixated on what "influencers" say. Focus on what you like and what works well for you, because these trends are designed to simply make you keep buying expensive computer products you might not even need (kinda like the fashion industry is designed to make you needlessly buy new clothes every year).
So, despite all the innovations we had in the mechanical keyboard’s scene in the last few years, I still have mad respect for those who simply stuck with Alps boards or Model Ms for the last thirty-something years: It's reliable, it works and feels great to type on… Nothing else needed! :)
mfs expect keyboards to be built like professional level musical instruments fr ong
ngl… ocd can kick in real hard sometimes
Fantastic video! Personally, I still have a soft spot for even "cheap" clicky switches. Cherry mx blues have a "classic" sound as far as modern keyboards go for me. Even though I use tactiles now, I still love clicky switches of all types.
Thank you!!! And yeah… No one can argue that Cherry MX Blues have a trademarked classic sound to it (it has been around for a very long time! :). In my particular experience, I always preferred them with tall keycaps (mostly SA) in thick PBT, which are effective in blocking some of the high frequency sounds from the switch, making them sound a bit “bassier”. But PBT SA caps used to be super difficult to get (and expensive as hell) a few years ago, so that limited my ability to customize clicky keyboards…
Then, as non-clicky tactile switches started to get very good (specially after “super-tactiles” such as holy pandas and its clones) I kinda left MX Blues behind. But I’m happy to see a new movement to bring clickies back to the spotlight! They certainly have their place in this hobby and I think is great that a reputable brand such as Zeal is putting so much effort in making this happen!
clickiez v2 😀
I'm sure Zeal is hard at work at a version 2 of these switches right now... ;)
Here I was just minding my own business, thinking that clicky switches just weren't for me. Then you just had to go and awaken something sleeping inside of me....you're going to have to explain this to my wallet, Sam.
😂 Right after I finish explaining the hole in mine!!! But yeah... spending over $100 in switches is indeed painful.
One more reason to go with the Vortex board I guess (that is a 65%)... At least there you'd save some $26 in switches compared to a TKL.
Another option is to buy an inexpensive vintage keyboard and swap out the PCB for a cherry one.
Yeah, this is what a lot of people did back in the day (putting the MX PCB of the G80 into the chassis of the G81). But as I mentioned in the video, one could still mod a brand new G80 with new switches today (Cherry still makes this model!), as long as you have a desoldering gun and a lot of patience! 😆
Using the NCR-80 was a great idea - 21st century custom keyboard dogma does clicky switches no good. Personally I don't even get the appeal of those stabilisers. The space bar's sound sticks out like a sore thumb, like someone banging the desk with their leg, instead of blending in with the rest of the keys as it does on the vintage keyboards. Clash of cultures, I guess. I'll be looking forward to your video on the Vortex PCjr.
Hehe… True… But I don’t think the smooth stabs are to blame for the extremely “thonky” sound of the spacebar (also don't think that adding rattle to them would make the low frequency sound of the spacebar go away). I believe the design of the case has more to do with the way the spacebar sound resonates.
Now, I could easily reduce the volume of the spacebar by stuffing foam into the keycap or below the PCB in the area under the spacebar. But the thing is that I actually like the “earthquaky” feeling of the spacebar… I have typed on this board for looong sessions and, for some reason, the guttural sound of the spacebar never annoyed me. So, I’ll probably keep it this way.
On the Vortex PCjr board (which I’m already working on its video) you also have a similar effect (spacebar sounding very deep), although not as pronounced as with the NCR-80. On the Vortex board video, I’ll test it with both the Zeal Clickiez and with the new TKC Blackberry switches, which is inspired on the design of the old Aristotle Cherry clicky clones of the early 90's. That video is likely dropping sometime in January… Stay tuned!
Man, if you think that $1.30 per switch is expensive to get vintage click action, then you _really_ don't want to know what my Model F77 reproduction cost me :C
Oh man... I do know my friend! I not only bought my own F62 Model F repro (Kishsaver) from Joe, but I also had to buy extra "flippers" to replace some bad ones that came with my board.😬
The bad news was the price for that whole endeavor... But the good one is that I now get to make a video about it! ;)
not gonna lie, clickiez in the ncr80 don't sound that bad, but so are box whites, and both got blown out of the water by the dc 2014
I wonder how they would sound like in a plateless build or a custom cut steel plate. I just find cf plate would amplify the thin polycarb housing sound too much in a hollow case like that
The NCR-80 most definitely improved the sound of Kailhs as well! In fact, the Kailh Box White will continue to be my “reasonable” recommendation for anyone who likes clickies with perfect tactility (and don’t want to burn a gigantic hole in their wallets 😂).
As for the Leading Edge DC-2014… What can I say? There is a reason people hunt these things like they’re made of gold! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you opt for the solder version of the NCR-80, you can definitely go plate-less and it is only reasonable to expect clicky switches should get louder in that scenario. While using a steel plate (like vintage keyboards did) should knock 1 or 2 DBs down in the volume (which could be a good or bad thing depending on one’s preference).
I’m not sure the plate file for this board is in the wild. If it is, it should be fairly easy to get one cut by PCBWay or any sheet metal workshop out there.
@@IOSam since it's a tray mount case I'm pretty sure you can just generate a plate file based on the layout (assuming 1u gap between fn and alpha cluster and 0.5u gap between alpha and nav cluster) and add the screw driver clearance holes for the mounting points and that's it
@@aragami0686 I think the position of the alphas, mods and nav cluster are all bog standard, but not sure about the F row, which could be a bit higher than 1u. But nothing that couldn't be easily measured and adjusted in CAD...
I might look into this for a future update video in a collab with PCBWay 🤔
Why are you trying to make an old cherry board sound like an alps board. that is so cursed
Cause Alps is bliss! 😁
So, old school mechanical keyboards buffs (like me) keep trying to emulate the sound and feel of Alps (specially Blue Alps).
I know... We'll never get it exactly right (without spending hundreds for a vintage Alps board, that is)... But it's still worth trying! 🤷
@@IOSam I get what you're saying, but I just thought it was kind of unholy to try to mimic the sound and feel of an Alps board in something that was modeled after the NCR Cherry G81-3XXXs specifically lol
@@haybail7618 Ah, yeah... I see what you mean... The G80 indeed had a bad reputation for being the cheapest of the mechanical keyboards of the 80's and 90's. But the use case for NCR80 here is because of the absolute lack of options for these types of big plastic keyboard kits in the market. Still waiting for someone to come out with a kit inspired on a legendary Alps board such as old models from Zenith for example.
Heck... Even a kit inspired on a Dell Big Foot would be awesome!
Wow, my whole life was a lie
😂 Been using Cherry MX Blues by any chance?
use smaller keyboards with clicky switches, never knowing that makes difference.
Well, the difference is only on sound of course. So the tactility of clicky switches is obviously not affected by the amount of "empty space" on the keyboard.
But it might be something to consider for future builds, if you prefer a "vintage keyboard" sound for these types of switches.
sure, it is the amount of difference in sound that surprises me.
click clack click clack
Yeah... Those RUclips gremlins doing their thing...
Let's put a lock on that subscribe button! XD
yes sir!!!!
how the fuck is this video an hour long
I see you and raise you 2X!!! How the fuck is this video ONLY one hour long?!? 😂
I could easily spend at least twice as long talking about vintage keyboards to other nerds like me!!! lol