Oh yeah, looking forward to do that on my Rat Rig (as soon as the kit arrives 😅)! Happy racing Michael and thanks for everything I was able to learn from you!
Awesome Job as usual Michael! Just as car racing, 3d speed printing is teaching us a great deal that can be re-applied to the real world printing. A great amount of work is required to achieve that time! You have unlocked the next level! welcome aboard :)
Holly CRAP that's fast! Wow, the print head looks like it's going to shake itself apart! That's pretty darn impressive for a 8.5 minute print. Not "museum quality" obviously, but for only 8.5 minutes, that's very impressive. (I've had rafts and brims that have taken longer than that to print). Way to go!
@@TeachingTech it's really impressive!!! However it's also the kinda thing that in 5 years time will be looked at and laughed at for how slow 3d printing used to be!! But in the real time, I'm impressed :)
Just print it at half the speed of what is shown here and it will probably be a pretty decent and usable print.. 17 minutes instead of 70+ minutes. This is what I really want. A fast printer, that does not rattle itself to pieces and is still affordable so I can do prototypes fast before creating a 5x the time beautiful print. And most prints don't even need to be beautiful. Even for something that has to look good on the outside.. Parts inside can look shabby as long as they fulfill their purpose.
the speedboat race is about pushing the limits of a printer for the sake of learning to tune and hone FDM printing technology. print quality in this challenge is only considered a bonus. as long as the benchy resembles a benchy and doesn't turn into spaghetti, it counts as a successful print.
I'd say the only problem there is that most of the issues with this bench seem to be insufficient cooling time, so I'd theorize that there's a certain limit to a good quality bench where it doesn't matter how good your set up is, you cannot physically go faster because otherwise the plastic won't have enough time to cool
@@jasonking7570 - I have seem even faster with better quality. But the configuration was absurd, Printing ABS on 260°C or 280°C cant remember exactly, and two Stupid Big Coolers fixed and pointing to the bed. How the hell the boat didnt warp because the ABS contraption, i dont have a drop of clue, i only use ABS for printing and Warping is a very big problem, also, he used ABS because PLA dont lower viscosity that much after melting, ABS on the other hand, keeps lowering when increasing temperature, and that helps on extrusion speed.
This is actually the challange. But as michael shows in the video, you push to how far you can go, and then slowly dial back to good quality. (i believe this will be his next video of today)
You should search for the VzBot, the machine that prints a Benchy sub-5 minutes. The owner went full send on printer modification for that. Very informative video series from him.
Hopefully, competitions like this will push the state of the art for FFM printers in general. Kind of like CPU overclocking. That said, as I teach my son, "you can only go as fast as you can do a good job, otherwise you are wasting your time." This challenge needs a way to quantify the print quality for it to be really valuable.
I was thinking categories where the printer HAS to take at least 5 or 10 minutes within a certain tolerance of a few seconds and the challenge is to get the best looking benchy although that may be hard to judge
My thoughts exactly, "must resemble a benchy" is open to interpretation and isn't a optimal metric for declaring a winner IMO. I understand why they had to set up the competition that way however, as its not easy to think of what better parameters could be used.
Working to extremes is where the learning happens though - so printing as fast as possible, or as fast as possible while still looking good both have their place.
I agree with Loebane here. This was valuable for me not because of the 8 minute benchy, but from knowing how to back it off from there to still be quite fast but have excellent quality.
From what i can tell, yeah, cooling seems to be the biggest issues on that one, there are several mods to fix this on the contrib page. Looks like there might be some minor extrusion inaccuracies as well. There's some flex in the current orbiter mount, but the upcoming mount in EVA 2.4 should help with that (already available via onshape, just not officially released yet).
@@Nitram_3d Might be better to run a Volcano, it has the longest dwell time for the filament of all the hotends. The limiting factor for melting is the heat capacity of the plastic, not the heater block.
I didn't need to up the temps to help flow until around the 12 minute mark. Part cooling is my limiting factor and there's more than I can do from off the shelf EVA community mods but I'm happy to stop here before I get completely sucked it.
IDK Man this is awesome for speed but I'd be afraid I'd have to retighten the bolts every print job. Also almost done watching this series and really enjoy it. Was considering a voron and now I'm liking this more. Seems to have better documentation for the builds, among other things. Are you still using it?
@@NaterNorris idlers / belts / printed parts are cheap to replace if it comes to that, should hold up very well though, but ofcourse you're seeing exponentially increased wear :)
Why is the bed shaking, that shouldn't be the case right (oh wait, it's the entire printer! Mmm, wondering what would be better then, bolting it down or not)? Also, let's hope Thomas doesn't get bored of trying Klipper by his audience, because what more could you say about having that as a benefit for a printer?
Securing it will improve it but will also enhance any weak points it has as the frame etc will no longer be taking some of the force. I come from a CNC background and just started in 3d printing. Everything needs to be bolted down on the CNC otherwise you are asking for trouble. This video is impressive tho.
very cool to see your entry! a really great time too! Honestly i'm surprised just how quiet it is while achieving this speed. Ratrigs look like VERY cool printers your quality isn't too bad either, could definitely use some more cooling. that's kinda our bottleneck too, it's really hard to cool the print quickly enough. Might have missed it but i didn't see what filament are you using? assuming ABS based on your slicer profile
I'm tempted to upload a video of this with a 50mm nozzle xD benchy shaped nozzle :P but it'd be funny with a 30mm nozzle. just spit a blob there that looks nothing like one
ti does do a decent job (won't say perfect because we know compromises had to be made for the speed), but when it gets going really fast it makes me cringe from the sounds and I was waiting for it to throw the print across the room!
How did you get access to the .dxf files for the electrics panel/ enclosures? I can't view them via Autocad to get the dimensions for the mounting locations.
Josh's Voron is heavily modified to be light weight, the less mass you are slinging around, the less force is required to stop that mass! so more mass translates to more violent movements. Josh's machine has carbon fiber gantry members while this one has aluminum, its a significant weight savings!
@@KeithSachs I’m at a loss for words. Going to have to look into that. All my printers are over 10^2 bed size so I don’t see this happening on those, but really cool nonetheless
Just an idea, but would rotating it 90 deg on the bed maybe get a bit more performance out of it? I’m just thinking that then the longest movements are just primarily the tool head moving rather than the whole gantry.
What you win is more knowledge about your printer and the slicer you use, the ability to decrease your print time and increase your quality over time :) Give it a shot! Just going from a 40 minute to a 30 or 20 minute benchy is even a big improvement :)
@@C1Rob1990 i did try a short benchy for fun before this started, but I also don't se much of a point in trying this personally. the benchy I printed shutdown after 5 minutes (almost done tho!) because I got a heater not heating error because my filament was cooling my heaterblock :D
Oh yeah, looking forward to do that on my Rat Rig (as soon as the kit arrives 😅)!
Happy racing Michael and thanks for everything I was able to learn from you!
My Ender 6 crossed its arms and gave me a dirty look while I was watching this.
after 10 benchy's: the bolts are flying everywhere.. lol..
Holy crap, just beating the heck outta that poor printer lol!
Excellent work.
Awesome Job as usual Michael! Just as car racing, 3d speed printing is teaching us a great deal that can be re-applied to the real world printing. A great amount of work is required to achieve that time! You have unlocked the next level! welcome aboard :)
It was your awesome video that got me interested in this, thank you!
Great to see your contribution to the speeboatrace, well done👍😀
Unicorn!!! 😉 haha nice job man!! It moves!!
we all are 🦄
Thanks for stopping by guys :)
Unicorns unite 😂 🦄🦄🦄🦄🦄🦄🦄
Count it!! Well done Michael. You're on the list now!
Great job!! very nice run!! Come join the fun on the Annex discord server :) Looking forward to the next video aswell :D
Holly CRAP that's fast! Wow, the print head looks like it's going to shake itself apart! That's pretty darn impressive for a 8.5 minute print. Not "museum quality" obviously, but for only 8.5 minutes, that's very impressive. (I've had rafts and brims that have taken longer than that to print). Way to go!
I think the the record is about 5min right now
@@Devine2712 Less than 5 minutes.
@@dev-debug yes it was Nitram :)
@@dev-debug Unless there's an even faster benchy, I was mentioning this one: ruclips.net/video/_A8HxlQuhjM/видео.html
@@C1Rob1990 Dang it, 5 seconds faster! (Just found the video)
Now that is rapid prototyping!!!
When you stand and watch from the side it builds vertically in real time for the skinny sections.
@@TeachingTech it's really impressive!!! However it's also the kinda thing that in 5 years time will be looked at and laughed at for how slow 3d printing used to be!! But in the real time, I'm impressed :)
You're probably right and I can't wait.
Just print it at half the speed of what is shown here and it will probably be a pretty decent and usable print.. 17 minutes instead of 70+ minutes. This is what I really want. A fast printer, that does not rattle itself to pieces and is still affordable so I can do prototypes fast before creating a 5x the time beautiful print. And most prints don't even need to be beautiful. Even for something that has to look good on the outside.. Parts inside can look shabby as long as they fulfill their purpose.
@@atombell991 you misunderstood his point
Maybe be patient and wait for a day to see the speed benefits this challenge gave me for my normal printing.
the speedboat race is about pushing the limits of a printer for the sake of learning to tune and hone FDM printing technology. print quality in this challenge is only considered a bonus. as long as the benchy resembles a benchy and doesn't turn into spaghetti, it counts as a successful print.
You know how serious it is when you see the gyroscope mounted to the head
Good job Michael.
For an 8 min benchy the result are incredible! I would like the same challenge but maintaining the print quality
I'd say the only problem there is that most of the issues with this bench seem to be insufficient cooling time, so I'd theorize that there's a certain limit to a good quality bench where it doesn't matter how good your set up is, you cannot physically go faster because otherwise the plastic won't have enough time to cool
@@jasonking7570 - I have seem even faster with better quality. But the configuration was absurd, Printing ABS on 260°C or 280°C cant remember exactly, and two Stupid Big Coolers fixed and pointing to the bed.
How the hell the boat didnt warp because the ABS contraption, i dont have a drop of clue, i only use ABS for printing and Warping is a very big problem, also, he used ABS because PLA dont lower viscosity that much after melting, ABS on the other hand, keeps lowering when increasing temperature, and that helps on extrusion speed.
This is actually the challange. But as michael shows in the video, you push to how far you can go, and then slowly dial back to good quality. (i believe this will be his next video of today)
Looks like you were resting your arm on the frame. That could impact your klipper input shaper tuning.
congrats ! that's impressive
That was just crazy to watch Michael.The inertia that the printer is creating is insane and you still get a "reasonable" benchy to boot.
You should search for the VzBot, the machine that prints a Benchy sub-5 minutes. The owner went full send on printer modification for that. Very informative video series from him.
Nice!!
Thanks,
John
Wow. When it was printing the wheelhouse it looked like someone was jumping between keyframes on an animation. That's impressive.
Hopefully, competitions like this will push the state of the art for FFM printers in general. Kind of like CPU overclocking. That said, as I teach my son, "you can only go as fast as you can do a good job, otherwise you are wasting your time." This challenge needs a way to quantify the print quality for it to be really valuable.
I was thinking categories where the printer HAS to take at least 5 or 10 minutes within a certain tolerance of a few seconds and the challenge is to get the best looking benchy although that may be hard to judge
My thoughts exactly, "must resemble a benchy" is open to interpretation and isn't a optimal metric for declaring a winner IMO. I understand why they had to set up the competition that way however, as its not easy to think of what better parameters could be used.
Working to extremes is where the learning happens though - so printing as fast as possible, or as fast as possible while still looking good both have their place.
I agree with Loebane here. This was valuable for me not because of the 8 minute benchy, but from knowing how to back it off from there to still be quite fast but have excellent quality.
Cool. Thanks.
Ordered my V-core 3 kit yesterday. Can’t wait to start playing with it!
can you also share your klipper printer config? great work man!
Will do with tomorrow's video.
YEEES! 😍 This is pretty damn good for a first entry! Now i have to beat it on my 400mm V-Core 3.. I better get to work! 😂
Oh man, that’s crazy. Imagine getting resin quality with fdm strength
Holy crap that machine sounded like is was going to implode!
Speed benchys are a violent thing but the machine has held up well.
Can’t wait to learn how to reduce print time by 40%. Awesome job!
Orbiter is a solid choice, I love mine, I can't come close to it's max feed rate on my ender 5. If that thing skips something is terribly wrong.
You should definitely bolt the frame down, maybe stick it on a heavy slab of paving stone or something to absorb the vibrations
not enough cooling right ? maybe placing the boat in diagonal is better. nice one :)
Looking forward to speed benchies on my SK-Tank :-)
That's it. I'm upgrading my main board and getting a bl touch and a gyroscope for my ender 3
"Bridge to engine room, warp factor 9!"
8:29 that's the sound of me spamming the like button
The rat rig is a serious player!
1. I was waiting for the extruder to break off.
2. Should have bought a RatRig.
3. Are all problems related to cooling?
From what i can tell, yeah, cooling seems to be the biggest issues on that one, there are several mods to fix this on the contrib page. Looks like there might be some minor extrusion inaccuracies as well. There's some flex in the current orbiter mount, but the upcoming mount in EVA 2.4 should help with that (already available via onshape, just not officially released yet).
@@miklschmidt lack of melting capacity 😉 ... so he needs to run over temperature..
@@Nitram_3d yep, the usual flow rate issues 😅 looks pretty good though! Also #VolcoMosq (i got you 😂)
@@Nitram_3d Might be better to run a Volcano, it has the longest dwell time for the filament of all the hotends. The limiting factor for melting is the heat capacity of the plastic, not the heater block.
I didn't need to up the temps to help flow until around the 12 minute mark. Part cooling is my limiting factor and there's more than I can do from off the shelf EVA community mods but I'm happy to stop here before I get completely sucked it.
My lights went dim here for just under 10 minutes... now I know why. ;)
Nice Job!
i have seen the whole video :-) ordered a 500mm one after your first video. cant wait :-)
In the evenings I been working on breaking the 4 min benchy, and of course after many hours its morning and I wake up ;)
IDK Man this is awesome for speed but I'd be afraid I'd have to retighten the bolts every print job. Also almost done watching this series and really enjoy it. Was considering a voron and now I'm liking this more. Seems to have better documentation for the builds, among other things. Are you still using it?
I like where this is going. So much of what I print only needs draft quality, if even that.
@Teaching Tech Am wondering if Z-hop is required for the test? ... with travel jerk being so high, it may not be needed.
I didn't use it. Each hop would add a split second which adds up.
That is awesome
Rofl @ the end. It looks like it's about to tear itself apart when doing the smoke stack. Good job pushing that hardware!
Just watching this caused me to have an anxiety attack.
I cant imagine the mix of joy and terror, watching your hand made machine printing this fast
this guy is pretty good at fast printing: ruclips.net/video/ZyTnz5_XGGU/видео.html
Benchy (at least kind of) in under 5 mins
Just imagine the damage it's doing to the machine. Probably couldn't do that for long before something fails
@@NaterNorris idlers / belts / printed parts are cheap to replace if it comes to that, should hold up very well though, but ofcourse you're seeing exponentially increased wear :)
Why is the bed shaking, that shouldn't be the case right (oh wait, it's the entire printer! Mmm, wondering what would be better then, bolting it down or not)? Also, let's hope Thomas doesn't get bored of trying Klipper by his audience, because what more could you say about having that as a benefit for a printer?
Securing it will improve it but will also enhance any weak points it has as the frame etc will no longer be taking some of the force.
I come from a CNC background and just started in 3d printing. Everything needs to be bolted down on the CNC otherwise you are asking for trouble.
This video is impressive tho.
very cool to see your entry! a really great time too! Honestly i'm surprised just how quiet it is while achieving this speed. Ratrigs look like VERY cool printers
your quality isn't too bad either, could definitely use some more cooling. that's kinda our bottleneck too, it's really hard to cool the print quickly enough. Might have missed it but i didn't see what filament are you using? assuming ABS based on your slicer profile
also you should post your results for the leaderboard! forms.gle/rAjshozEeXVnuDEeA
Most of the noise is from everything on the table underneath rattling. The actual printer is just over 60 db at this speed.
This looks like the video is sped up until I look at the stopwatch counting at the right speed
hey guys!! what do you do with the remains bunch of empty spool??
my hypercube would dissassemble itself trying to print just the first layer.
That is very impressive!
Is that "clapping" sound the belts I wonder?
Stuff rattling on the bench underneath.
Wow, your stepper drivers must have been a bit on the warm side with all of that action.
very nice
Shes a RIPPER!! Full Send!!! :)
I'm tempted to upload a video of this with a 50mm nozzle xD benchy shaped nozzle :P but it'd be funny with a 30mm nozzle. just spit a blob there that looks nothing like one
ti does do a decent job (won't say perfect because we know compromises had to be made for the speed), but when it gets going really fast it makes me cringe from the sounds and I was waiting for it to throw the print across the room!
So will your next video be about cura/prusaslicer or is it going to be about that expensive Simplify3D again?
Nice
Love your videos... have you setup a ender 6 yet? flashing marlin seems kind of impossible
very good to see how the rat rig performs here, not bad at all. also don't forget to post your entry on the annex discord server too
Awesome! I'm hyped for the next video about speeding the printing time.
should ding like s microwave when it done printing like that
Do you think I could try these settings om my Ender 3 Pro? It's got 'pro' in the name, that should count for something, no? :)
it's basically a machine gun at this stage
Oh what the heck 😉 what about the motors and the Orbiter, I mean thats a f... stresstest to all the moving parts.
Surprising the X and Y motors aren't too hot at all. The orbiter always runs on the max current that's recommended but no problems.
The 48mm 2504AC LDO’s from Rat Rig are absolute beasts :)
please make a boat on maximum speed when the stringing does not appear and the quality is still good:)
I'm going to stop here or I'll be sucked down the rabbit hole.
What filament do you use for that? It has to cool down FAST
All will be revealed tomorrow.
My printer is sweating right now
SO I wanna see these settings on a large model to see just how much time it saves haha. something like half build volume lololol
Holy moly
This trend is nice but isn't it dangerous for the machine?
How did you get access to the .dxf files for the electrics panel/ enclosures? I can't view them via Autocad to get the dimensions for the mounting locations.
Why does this seem so much more violent then the 5ish minute voron entries
Josh's Voron is heavily modified to be light weight, the less mass you are slinging around, the less force is required to stop that mass! so more mass translates to more violent movements. Josh's machine has carbon fiber gantry members while this one has aluminum, its a significant weight savings!
@@KeithSachs Cool! Wish I could save up enough money for a nice corexy printer instead of all my bedslingers…
@@jamescampbell737 there are some very respectable benchy times on bed slingers! check out mikls ratrig! entry is like 5 minutes
@@KeithSachs I’m at a loss for words. Going to have to look into that. All my printers are over 10^2 bed size so I don’t see this happening on those, but really cool nonetheless
I’d imagine that removing the excess weight of the auto leveler would help, albeit marginally… not worth the fuss?
Yeah I think any savings in mass make it a bit less violent.
@@TeachingTech just replace the bltouch with a magnetic probe such as Euclid or the annex quickdraw
But still not perfect. I want to see a benchy super fast in perfect condition. To see how long it really takes.?
I have a perfect one in tomorrow's video that is still very fast compared to what we are used to (70 - 90 minutes).
Gotta print fast!
I assume you are using spread cycle to achieve this speed
only way to roll :D over 100 mm/s it's actually quieter than stealthchop.
I'm so tempted to get the 500 x 500 rat rig. Is there any drawbacks to this design at that size? I'm printing droids so will be using the entire bed.
sounds so violent
At accelerations like those, you would be expecting shorter lifespan on a few of those hotend components right? Like bearings?
What is a 'standard' time to print a benchy, say on something like a Prusa i3?
About 1-1.5 hours, depending on quality.
@@apinakapinastorba Woah.
Is the clacking backlash from the extruder gearing?
Just an idea, but would rotating it 90 deg on the bed maybe get a bit more performance out of it? I’m just thinking that then the longest movements are just primarily the tool head moving rather than the whole gantry.
Wow, that's all I've got.
i want a cartesian subcategory of this
Why a subcategory? I did 5:38 on the Rat Rig V-Minion :D
All the Annex printers are pretty much Cartesian(XY) so you would still compete with the same people xD
accelerometer not hooked up or is it not needed once you do your tuning?
Damn! I wish I could print *anything* that quick
If all else fails, print fast spaghetti.
insane
That is frightening.
👍👍👍
Geezus, I thought it was going to fall apart lol
Damn this thing rips.... I got some learnin to do...
your flying her apart captain ..dam man fly her apart lol
FLY HER APART THEN!
What happens when you record time lapse of the machine!!
She can't take it anymorrrrrrre - Lt. Montgomery Scott
do you win anything? tho it'd be stupid to try tbh with my printer
What you win is more knowledge about your printer and the slicer you use, the ability to decrease your print time and increase your quality over time :) Give it a shot! Just going from a 40 minute to a 30 or 20 minute benchy is even a big improvement :)
@@C1Rob1990 i did try a short benchy for fun before this started, but I also don't se much of a point in trying this personally.
the benchy I printed shutdown after 5 minutes (almost done tho!) because I got a heater not heating error because my filament was cooling my heaterblock :D
😲🔥💕👌👍