Great work! I actually tested the compostability of PHA ~2 years ago (yet never posted a video on it). ColorFabbs allPHA composts beautifully within a short amount of time, the Canadian Regen PHA on the other hand looked basically untouched after ~ 2 months in my compost. This means that PHAs are not created equally but they are definitely a step into the right direction!
REGEN PHA Filament was not PHA. It was a co-blend of PLA+PHA. With the Anti-greenwashing laws that passed recently in Canada, I have the suspicion they pulled the product off market before getting sued for false claims.
I would probably switch to PHA if it was a similar price to PLA. The heat stability alone would be helpful and not worrying about drying the filament would be a plus; hope that gets tested. Thanks for the video.
I am the former CTO of Beyond Plastic, the product is now discontinued. The cost of the raw material alone is 4X the cost of PLA. Simply because PLA mass production is currently saturated (Corbion cancelled their China expansion plan). While PHA is still ramping up. There is pricing reduction opportunities with volume, but we never came close to achieving this at BP. There are new PHA filaments coming out, working on a collaboration with a US established producer. Hope to make an announcement in December or January, new formulation with improved properties.
I collaborated with Beyond Plastic and tested their PHA formulation, the warping issue is that formulations main issue. Check out the PHA subreddit, I have some research posts showing how to fix the issue entirely, however the answer was to expose my Prusa MK4 to near freezing temps inside of my refrigerator! The former Beyond Plastic engineers are still working on a "next generation" PHA, which should resolve the warp issue without needing to freeze the ambient air around the printer to prevent the warping that occurs during the crystallization process. Keep an eye out for it in the future, you can actually sign up for the testing in the subreddit.
In metal that sort of thing is how tempering is done. How's the speed of cooling change the structural aspects of it? Smaller crystals would probably make it less elastic but might also affect it's temperature stability? That's nifty to know. I wonder if you can use an old college trick of adding salt to ice to lower the freezing point run a copper tube through it to exchange air temp with it to get enough cooling if ducted through the part cooling fans. Or if some peltier bed coolers would be needed to get there. So strange trying to get a print cold, normally you struggle to get it hot to keep stability.
In my experience, there are 3 major downfalls to PHA: 1. Warping, as you mentioned 2. Bridging, as you mentioned briefly 3. Malleability or lack of rigidity. PHA is very soft compared to PLA or PETG, which makes it unsuitable for structural prints. Anything
Any experience with how it behaves with other filaments for support? It's probably difficult to get any other filaments to work on a cold bed at the same time.
We have begun testing PHA for use in my Conifer nursery. I am excited at the possibility of manufacturing my own root pruning bio-degradable containers instead of being reliant on Jiffy.
I'd see about using a paper based method for that. Can fold newspaper as a quick option, or perhaps build a mould and fill it with pulp... need to try that.
I have a bit of experience with pha. I’ve known it for quite a while and in the plastic industry they call it the sleeping giant because of its untapped potential. The industry is more into recycled plastics (for now at least) than producing true bio polymers. Also (for what I experienced with a couple of moulders) pha is not easy to injection mold with standard equipment and it deforms a lot when out of the mold even after a long cycle time. It’s more dense than common abs and more difficult to source so it costs a lot. Manufacturers are not ready for it it but maybe 3d printing people are, I personally really like the fact that it’s basically bacteria juice! 😊
Very interesting stuff. I noticed that colorFabb from the nEtherlands has something called allPHA which appears to be PHA and in stock. Price point is 25€ for 750g which is pretty ok and not as expensive as I expected given the comments. Definitely gonna try this on the next actual product for selling. Should be a nice alternative to the other filaments. Edit: Small correction, the price was missing tax, so it's actually 32€/750g. Which puts it about 2x of simple PLA.
I tried out printing with PHA as an alternate material for a flute I designed. It worked pretty well! Just a little sagging on bridges and I made sure to put a big no-clearance brim on it which was easy to remove afterward. Even though it's tougher along the XY plane, I did notice that it wasn't as strong between the layers as PLA. I was able to snap my flute in half by hand (and CA glue it back together). I hope PHA catches on to reduce all the plastic waste 3D printing usually generates. I look forward to the biodegrading tests
Absolutely I would buy it. It's exactly what I'm looking for, and I can fix the warping. Very interested in the next video with actual biodegradability.
Really curious to see how biodegradable this filament is. One thing that always makes me feel guilty about printing is the amount of waste I produce with no viable way to recycle it. If someone could figure out the warping issues would be all for printing with PHA. IMO I would rather have plastic that degrades over time and just need to reprint it every once in awhile then something that lasts for thousands of years.
totally the same with me, i wouldn't even mind if the plastic degrades within a month since 50% of what i print by volume are jigs and dimensionaly proofing parts, not actual part that need to last
Biodegradable does not equal compostable. Biodegradable materials need special conditions to biodegrade. Biodegradable materials do not fully biodegrade on their own when thrown into wilderness. These materials can stay for hundreds of years in dirt without fully degrading. 90% of biodegradable stuff is a scam.
You have to keep in mind that if you throw away your PLA prints and they burn them in the garbage disposal the CO2 released is roughly the same amount that the corn the PLA was made of absorbed while growing. So basically, PLA is CO2 neutral, accept for the manufacturing process of course.
Former CTO of Beyond Plastic Here. "How biodegradable this filament is?" Easy answer: The material is TUV Austria Marine Biodegradable Certified (Certification S2979). This is the highest and most stringent certification available today for biopolymers. In brief, it must pass three test: 1) Marine biodegradability as per ASTM6691 2) Toxicity testing using the above medium with Magna Daphnia, less than 10% mortality rate (we pass with 0%). 3) Disintegration test, 90 days must break down as quick as paper (cellulose). This was actually the toughest test to pass. New material is being developed, eta December or January launch.
I am seriously considering stopping PLA for PHA for my next spool order. Thanks for this video. Compostable and eco friendly plastic is a default choice for me. The model you choose for the test is a good idea, but I would like to have like a thin layer (just a rectangle) of maybe 0.5mm ? To see holes with a light behind or deformation after composting. Thanks for the excellent work !
7:14 this is very appealing to me, i hate when parts of my prints look like a different color or texture bc of nozzle speed variations. If the warping can be mitigated and the price is reasonable, this might become my goto for basic stuff.
For the long term test items, I'd say prints that are expected to function would be a better test than art pieces, since people generally are more careful with art (I think). Tools that natuarlly have to take at least a little bit of abuse, measuring tools to see if any fine details like small numbers are affected, simple mechanisms like a printed planetary gear or similar to see if the mechanism can still act after deg. Looking forward to the results!
Hi Michael! Good content as usual! Regarding availability of PHA; I use Colorfabb's PLA/PHA alot, very pleased with it being not as brittle as PLA already with that blend. But more to the point, Colorfabb has a rather new product namely their pure PHA. It's called allPHA and from what I can see, in stock. I tried it when I helped a friend repair his electric kettle. I can only agree on the warping tendencies, but that aside an interesting material. BR
I'd never heard of PHA until now, but if it performs as you've shown then it seems to be overall better than PLA and much better for the environment. I'd be willing to pay a small premium and switch to it, if it was priced similar to PLA I'd definitely make the swap... providing that it is better for the environment, so looking forward to your follow up testing! I was impressed with the heating comparision against PLA, what's the glass transition temp of PHA?
Tg of PHA is -10c to 6 c. What you really want to know is the heat deflection temperature. And that is 145c range. Compare to PLA having Tg of 65c and heat deflection temp of 70c.
@@fredpinczuk7352 Thanks, indeed I was looking for the temp at which it softens (which I've often heard others refer to as glass transition temp). From the video clip showing it in an oven I figured it must be quite a bit higher than PLA
Another Great Video. 1. No plastic wrap, TICK. 2. Print process and quality TICK, 3. Price will be an issue, but the more we see of this test, if biodegradability is proven, I'll put it in the shopping list each time.
Yes I would switch to PHA if the warping was manageable. I love the idea of putting scraps and failed prints in the compost pile rather than the landfill.
If it actually biodegrades as intended, and the price was right, I would 100% replace PLA in most instances! I like that this stuff is more temperature stable and seems to be tougher than PLA. I generally like impact resistant materials more than the most rigid. The warping seems to be a pretty hard issue to overcome. I hope it doesn't get "fixed" by blending with materials that don't biodegrade.
If that was readily available. I would 100% consider moving to PHA. Thanks for creating, and sharing this information! I look forward to future updates on the PHA. Maybe a phone stand for indoor use. That or a container that could be used outdoors and indoor to hold small items.
I was pretty much sold on this filament when I saw it doesn't come with vacuum sealed plastic bag. I like 3D printing because pretty much everything can be recycled and any instance of cutting down on those unsustainable parts of the hobby are great. The rest of the video had me even more sold as I was expecting it to be much more like PLA rather than having properties more towards what I'd expect from PETG. I'd deffinately consider this over PLA if readily available
It was looking so good up until the warping. That is just not acceptable, especially since it doens't seem to have a workaround to resolving that issue. One thing you should think about adding to your filament testing is a shrinkage test, such as califlower. Shrinkage is a major issue when printing mechanical parts.
"not acceptable" dude, all common printing materials shrink, have you tried PETG, ABS, ASA, Nylon... :D PLA is quite an exception in that it does not need a heated chamber.
@@PunaJussi The low print temp of PLA, combined with a lower thermal coefficient of expansion, certainly helps. I just printed two parts 14mm wide and 280mm long, laying flat, and they are amazingly flat. So I'll hold off on any "new stuff" until it is as easy to use as PLA or PETG.
@@oyuyuy _"PETG doesn't have warping issues"_ -- huh? I have problems with PETG prints warping, not all the time, but certainly often enough that I know a claim that it simply "doesn't have warping issues" at all is false. The warping demo in this video involves very thin vertical walls, which is a different warping profile than PETG has in my experience and appears to be a worst case scenario for PHA. The other prints demonstrate that with more forgiving print scenarios, PHA is perfectly fine. So...know your material, print the right material for the job, mitigate known issues if necessary.
@@harvey66616 Then you're doing something wrong. I've printed 100s of kgs of the stuff and honestly I can only recall like 2 or 3 prints that had warping issues - which was of course easily managed by adding a brim that I should've added from the get go.
Having seen the video and read some of the very informative and helpful comments, I would certainly give it a try. Interesting that it prints best in low temperatures. Sounds like a fun material to try out and hopefully do some useful prints with. Hopefully it will become more available 🤞
So if I am following this correctly, it prints comparably to PLA in most cases, it has better heat and UV resistance is and is more resilient / less brittle than PLA. I guess we didn't see how well it did with bearing a load. I am very interested to see if this is actually biodegradable. I would absolutely use this with what I know right now, it seems to be better than PLA in a lot of ways. This may be a pedestrian question, but how does it stack up against ABS? From my perspective, which isn't very sophisticated, the heat and UV resistance are the main benefits of ABS vs PLA, and while those usually aren't a concern for me, sometimes they are. This just seems like it can replace ABS in a lot of use cases without the need for an enclosure and ventilation and have less of a long term environmental implact. I'd also be interested to learn about other aspects, like is this food safe or plant safe for plants you are going to be harvesting? How is adherence between this and other filaments? How does it clean up? (I haven't printed things where I worry about sanding or painting or vapor smoothing yet, but eventually I will get there).
Wow this looks phenomenal overall. The impact and heat resistance are great qualities. If layer adhesion matches PLA it would be really awesome. The warping is a pain, but hopefully a heated chamber like on my Qidi would help. Great video!
Wow, I'm in. If the composting works I would be more than happy to just run my old prints through a grinder and throw it in my compost pile. Even if it goes into the landfill I would be happy.
Hi. It's my first time seeing your impact test jig so apologies if you had it for a long time and I'm making this comment too late; But how it shakes upon each movement of the hammer would act as a dampener for the motion of the hammer and introduces error to your statistics. I suggest either adding rubber feet in each corner or bolting it to the table. I'd definitely go with the latter. Thanks for putting great content. Hope I could help with a small matter. You actually inspired me to try ASA filament (FormFutura AppoloX) from when you made an airbox for your drift Silvia very long time ago. Cheers!
Biodegradable + saves energy ( no build plate heating requires) + UV resistant (great for outdoor applications) = almost perfect plastic material Thanks for this, looking forward to see how fast and easy it degrades.
Interestingly you actually increased the rigidity of the print by putting it in the oven. PHA anneals at room temperature, and crystalizes rapidly at higher temperatures
i would for sure give it a try at least if it was available for the same conditions. The heat resistance makes it pretty interesting. As for your tests, a few things came to my mind regarding the model. It would be interesting to see how much it stays in dimensional accuracy during the test period. So a model with measurable dimensions would be good. Perhaps it would be fun to make a crossover episode with Stefan from CNC Kitchen or Igor from MyTechFun to test more mechanical properties? It sure would be interesting for me, seeing you doing practical prints and test them in everyday use, while one of them tortures testprints in every thinkable way
Interesting filament. Nice temperature hold, good strength and elasticity. After having constant good results with pa6 trimmer line, warping is not a problem.
I run a farm and plastic in our compost sources is a big deal. For testing, solid rods of different diameters would be interesting to see. The thicker the wall, in theory the longer it will take to break down. Small plastic often "break down" but it's more mechanical than chemical. Not sure if you want to test your pile, but the heat of the pile will make a big different on overall biological activity and the prevalence of particular microbes (e.g. if it needs bacteria to break down, a hot pile may be better than a cooler pile which might be better for fungal processes).
This would be fantastic if some of the more reputable manufacturers were to step up & tinker with it. I'd absolutely purchase it! The heat resistance alone would make it a go-to filament for me.
For me it needs to be a real upgrade. I switched to PCTG earlier this year and love it too much. I'm worried that the biodegradability of PHA is compromised by different types of pigment that filament producers add. There are pigments that could potentially be bad to environment like the microbes that break down the PHA.
@@fredpinczuk7352 Hey, thanks for replying! Good to know that BP was actually mindful of this. Though I personally wouldn't trust filaments that come from China or unbranded stuff. There's even big filament makers who do not share which pigments they use, which I often try to find in the technical datasheets but it's rarely in there. With composting, one of the first things I would think of, besides biodegradability, is the use of additives that could be harmful. I hope this PHA becomes a thing so I can give it a try :)
Id love to switch specially for the added flexibility and lack of moisture retention while still being "better" for the environment. An outdoor degradation test would be interesting.. Bird house maybe?? That said, warping on a 30$ roll is an issue for me so wondering if it has to do with layer adhesion since the brim stayed on the plate. Still happy to pay a slight premium for some plastic that will actually dissapear
Industrial conditions feels inaccessible to the every day person but we use a Lomi home composter for our PLA no problem - so if you are interested in composting your own PLA that's the path I'd recommend!
Thanks. I like the idea of being eco friendly. I don't know how much of a premium I would be willing to pay, yes something 5%, 50% 75% I don't know. I love the concept that it is more departure resistant, and stronger. I assume once it is more popular, there will be better blends, and setting.
I am very interested because a home compostable plastic is a unicorn. It doesn't exist, at least not yet to my knowledge. The "compostable" plastics presently have only been compostable under the highest cost commercial facilities, and then, they have composted minimally. It's not truly compostable if it doesn't fully break down in a reasonable amount of time, say a year in a properly tended residential compost pile. That would be a game-changing product.
Correct, greenwashing PLA products have become the norm. However, you may have noticed that a lot of PLA filament producers have now removed any claims of biodegradability. Or at least the once that do not want to be sued by EU and Canada Anti-greenwashing laws. We are still playing catchup in the US.
I think you should test the biodegradability for sure. It would be nice to see a fine lattice to see how well fine objects break down, but I would also like to see functional parts printed and exposed in the same way to see if they are affected. Maybe objects with fuzzy texture will catch bacteria in the air and degrade on a wall outside, or do stakes in the ground with plant labels loose their stake?
I would potentially use it as an ABS replacement. I get spools for about $12 a kilo from Sunlu, so I understand if that’s an unachievable price point. If it were $15-$20 a spool, I would find it worth considering.
It’s worth investigating whether your local government in Australia does industrial composting. Councils that do FOGO bins usually do. If so their process can manage PLA, where ordinary garden composting can’t.
Thank you! PHA needs more coverage to go beyond being a spool of plastic that has random letters in the name. Always wanted to try PHA but availability and price is a problem. For prototyping and printing random toys is perfect! biodegradability is the most important feature for non functional prints, and should be the norm. I hope it becomes more widely available.
PHA, to me, anyway, seems like a good prototyping material. I mostly work in PLA and PETG (particularly carbon fibre impregnated PETG), so, when working through a design process, I'll often use PLA for design testing and commit to PETG-CF for when I'm happy. This has led to fair pile of waste, which I tend to keep in a kids' toy box that's shaped like a garbage skip - my "bin of shame." The contents never quite fill the bin because I try to reuse this co-mingled PETG and PLA for "melt panels", kind of like small bits of "wood" or "aluminium" by melting them in ceramic nonstick baking trays in a toaster oven. It's good for cutting brackets, soft jaws for my drill vice, axe and hammer handle wedges, etc. It is probably going to catch up with me, though, so having a prototyping material that I can feed to the "better half's" garden would reduce the contents of the bin-of-shame when it nears the brim.
Seems really cool, but until there are additives for that warping it seems like a pain to deal with. Its properties especially with the heat resistance are cool. In terms of locations, I'd like to see this in a hot car for long periods of time, like just a regular item left in a trunk similar to how a nerf blaster might be for instance.
I would switch to PHA in a heartbeat. I found out about the filament a few years ago but was much to expensive (and out of stock) when I looked into ordering it. I hope it comes back.
I would be more likely to replace my PETG rather than PLA. I use PLA because it's easy and doesn't warp, I use PETG for the attributes you mentioned in this video (stiffness, temperature, uv).
Man, aside from the warping, and assuming the biodegradability and uv stability holds true, this would be a great alternative to pla for me. I've got not good options for getting rid of my waste pla, so I just have a bunch of it in bags, waiting for me to either find somewhere to take it for proper composting, or to finally bite the bullet and get set up to recycle it myself.
Very interesting! I'm currently researching toxic emissions (UFPs and VOCs) from 3D printers, wherein PLA actually emits the least airborne material out of the most common materials. I wonder how PHA would perform in this case, and what materials the emissions contain.
Yup, to me the voc emissions will also be huge factor in deciding if i will buy any PHA products in the future. There needs to be more research tho. Right now, there are no health effect / voc studies as far as i know of.
If PHA can be produced at a similar price to PLA or PETG I'd be more than willing to at least try printing it and see how it behaves. The impact resistance and thermal stability would be extremely useful for a lot of the things I print as I do a lot of functional parts and printer part upgrades. The warping behaviour is a bit of a concern but I kinda wonder if my experiences printing ABS are anything to go by - anything's fixable with a stable environment, a clean PEI sheet and patience!
I would switch to vPHA if it was same cost as PLA as the other comment stated. One thing on Sticking to the bed. We all know that bed heaters are inconsistent. It is always hotter in the center and cooler as we print out to the edges. I wonder if we had a bed that could heat the same throughout the compleat bed size if that would make any difference in warping for all materials. Q: is warping due to inconsistent cooling of the part during printing. It seems to me that we never see warping of large prints in the center it is always starts at the edges. Again, if we had a bed heater design that heated the bed evenly would that solve or greatly reduce the issue? I wish we had even a crude version of Star Treks Replicator. Maybe 50 or 100 years from now we are going to look back on 3D printing like we do at early computers.
I did use100% Pha from Regen Canada, and it was way better than beyond plastic Pha in terms of warping. I was able to print huge straight objects on my prusa XL on a cold bed. Beyond plastic was abysmal as it would warp 100% of the time. Regen Pha is better than pla and is awesome for fan shrouds, as it won't sag over time. As for composting, I did try it in my hotbin composer and it breaks down at a similar pace as pla, but instead of turning into brittle dust, it retains structure. So far I have not observed a full decomposition after a year. Overall, I would suggest trying Pha by regent at 230c+. I saw it is still stocked in Canadian Amazon.
I would absolutely use PHA if available. A lot of my prints are prototypes that are destined for the bin, so being able to toss them in the compost would be huge
does seem to tick enough boxes to switch from pla/pla+ but the warping is definitely a pain. as for test print, i recon an egg in vase mode should be great model to test shape, strengh, decomposition etc
I would buy PHA to test out if its around $10-$13 for a 1kg roll. I use a lot of cheap PLA for prototyping, so it would be great having a filament that actually breaks down in the landfill.
Realistically, as much as I'd want to switch to PHA (even if it was a little bit more expensive), I probably wouldn't go ahead. That's purely down to the warping, which i think could be very frustrating as it looks tricky to overcome. That said, i'd definitely buy a spool and try it out.
The only PHA I've seen for sale is the Colorfabb and at 3 times the price of a good PLA filament. I'll probably give it a try but I can't warrant the price for regular use. Hopefully if more people start using it the cost will go down and I'm sure the warping issue can be addressed in future updated formulae.
Your default PLA PA, 0.050, is pretty high. Looking over the results of the ~200 calibrations I’ve performed, only PETG consistently exceeds 0.050. Silk PLA is frequently above 0.040 but most PLA results are 0.030 or less. The “DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN” error you had in your browser indicates a DNS problem, not that the website was down.
To me the big benefit to using PLA as opposed to other plastics is that it can be broken down within the human or any animal's body. That means very little health hazard, while still being extremely resistant to degradation in normal soil conditions, unlike PVC/ABS.
Regarding the biodegradability in compost or soil, it would be interesting to know what happens to the degrading microorganisms. Is the material a "superfood" for the organisms, or is it more toxic, causing them to die off quickly? What happens to the excretions of these organisms? Do they act like a fertilizer for the soil, or are they more like inhibitory substances that make the soil "worse"? What happens to any manufacturing additives that may have been used? A material is not inherently good and environmentally friendly just because it decomposes.
Thanks for the video. I would be interested in it, if it did not cost more than PLA. I was thinking for your tests maybe you can print a phone holder and keep it in your car in the heat and cold and see how it performs.
I will be interested to see one other aspect which is how much microplastics are being released . Not sure that you will have the ability to assess that,but I think it is a very fair question to ask
Unfortunately the warping quite honestly kills it for me. The last thing I want to deal with is ABS like problems on cheaper prints. I'm just not going to use glue unless there is just no other choice.
I would definitely try PHA although my issue is that I’m only running Marlin on an old Tevo Tornado and on a Creality CRS 10 smart pro so I do t have the input shaping abilities that you do with Klipper and am limited with G Code adjustments as I am using Cura as my slicer, so Mabel you could try and run a sample with only basic equipment like I have. Regards Jeff
I got all excited for this filament, and now kits not available! Bummer! I don’t. Are so much about its bio properties, but I do care about its other properties! So even if it doesn’t decompose as claimed, I’m still interested. Maybe even more interested. I’d like to see its UV stability in real life testing, as well as chemical resistance (specifically petroleum products like gas and oil).
The warping is a problem. I already had this problem with PETG, and it makes life really hard. The better heat stability and UV resistance, on the other hand, would be a bonus. Hard to say if I would buy it. I might give it a try, but the warping does not sound good.
I would use it to offset PLA use but PLA is so easy to use and comes in so many flavors. But most cases where I'm not worried about warping I would love to cut down on plastic waste.
I wonder about 3 things: 1, availability. this stuff sees to be VERY hard to find. 2, creeping. I don't print PLA much at all anymore, because under even light load it will creep and deform over time. This stuff might fare a little better, judging by the temp resistance. 3: compostability. Sure, this seems like a good thing, but it also tells me that this plastic is a horrible material to use outdoors, as mechanical parts and even protective parts will decompose and fail. even ABS is not suitable thanks to how it degrades in the sun. Ergo: this seems like a plastic that, if you can find it, is meant for stuff you intend to throw away or keep indoors... and I dunno about you, but I don't exactly want my decorative parts like sculptures and stuff to decompose after a year or 3.
According to the website it needs to be eaten by micro organisms to degrade. So if you keep it away from soil it should be good. I'll find out soon enough.
I'm okay with 3 years. 1 year not so much. 3 years, though, just reprint it if it's still relevant. The problem is many 3d prints end up binned long before 3 years and don't biodegrade anytime soon.
@chublez That's you, not me. I print stuff that I still use 5 years later. Half the problem of pollution is this "Throwaway culture". Rather than making stuff that lasts, everyone is just "Nah ill throw it away, buy a new one or make a new one." Rather than improving.
As a side note, you mention PLA becomes brittle hinting that was because of moisture, I'd like to see testing with PLA to see if brittleness could actually be due to UV exposure instead.
I know a friend of mine that has her own PHA company known as Plastus and they make their own PHA and she said that there's few companies that make PHA and I actually did a test to see if it's bio Degradable and buried all the print waste in our garden and it degraded within months but the problem is with warping it warps too much other than that it's a good alternative to PLA
Yeah i think i would be interested in PHA if it where available at a good cost. But the warping would be a little bit of an issue. I would print some benchys for the test as they are prob the most printed 3d model ever. Cheers for the video.
If this was available and affordable I would switch to it for sure. I sometimes need to print things just to test shape or fit and sometimes things like drilling templates. I do those in PLA because that is at least nof a fossil. PHA sounds like it would be way better for it than PLA at least for prints where the warping can be tolerated. I wonder if the warping could be solved by adding some fibers. Not carbon obviously, we would want something biodegradable as well. For other warpy filaments adding fibers can even make them printable without encloser so it could work. Maybe something like wood fibers could even enhance the biodegradability if the fibers rot first and create a ton of holes for the bacteria to go inside to eat the PHA.
PHA is indeed biodegradable, the Beyond Plastic team had the certifications necessary to prove it from outside organizations and governing bodies to show it wasn't false advertising.
"We create plant-based, 100% biodegradable plastics". They never say it's biodegradable because it's a bio plastic. They say it's a bio plastic that's biodegradable.
Look up TUF Austria Marine Biodegradation Certification number S2949. Should answer your question my little keyboard warrior. No greenwashing at Beyond plastic, not while under my leadership. What the current ownership does next, I can't answer.
I think a lattice cube will be too thin, it might just be gone after a while, possibly thru erosion not degradation Something with different thickness wold be good to determine how long it takes for the decomposition to go beyond surface level
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Great work! I actually tested the compostability of PHA ~2 years ago (yet never posted a video on it). ColorFabbs allPHA composts beautifully within a short amount of time, the Canadian Regen PHA on the other hand looked basically untouched after ~ 2 months in my compost. This means that PHAs are not created equally but they are definitely a step into the right direction!
REGEN PHA Filament was not PHA. It was a co-blend of PLA+PHA.
With the Anti-greenwashing laws that passed recently in Canada, I have the suspicion they pulled the product off market before getting sued for false claims.
I would probably switch to PHA if it was a similar price to PLA. The heat stability alone would be helpful and not worrying about drying the filament would be a plus; hope that gets tested. Thanks for the video.
I am the former CTO of Beyond Plastic, the product is now discontinued.
The cost of the raw material alone is 4X the cost of PLA. Simply because PLA mass production is currently saturated (Corbion cancelled their China expansion plan). While PHA is still ramping up.
There is pricing reduction opportunities with volume, but we never came close to achieving this at BP. There are new PHA filaments coming out, working on a collaboration with a US established producer. Hope to make an announcement in December or January, new formulation with improved properties.
I work at a filament company. We’re hoping to be able to hit $24.99/kg for PHA (compared to our $21.99/kg for PLA)
This is the main driving factor, Price. People are gonna use whatever the most cost effective for the job.
@@MitchDavis2 Hey Mitch, glad you found the post.
I collaborated with Beyond Plastic and tested their PHA formulation, the warping issue is that formulations main issue. Check out the PHA subreddit, I have some research posts showing how to fix the issue entirely, however the answer was to expose my Prusa MK4 to near freezing temps inside of my refrigerator!
The former Beyond Plastic engineers are still working on a "next generation" PHA, which should resolve the warp issue without needing to freeze the ambient air around the printer to prevent the warping that occurs during the crystallization process. Keep an eye out for it in the future, you can actually sign up for the testing in the subreddit.
In metal that sort of thing is how tempering is done. How's the speed of cooling change the structural aspects of it? Smaller crystals would probably make it less elastic but might also affect it's temperature stability? That's nifty to know.
I wonder if you can use an old college trick of adding salt to ice to lower the freezing point run a copper tube through it to exchange air temp with it to get enough cooling if ducted through the part cooling fans. Or if some peltier bed coolers would be needed to get there. So strange trying to get a print cold, normally you struggle to get it hot to keep stability.
Hi Derrick, you are 100% correct.
Great to see you here.
What in the world. That's pretty funny because you'd expect heat to be the answer while in here taking it away was. Pretty interesting
@@ares395 You can read my intro at the above, but yes. It is counterintuitive. but it as everything to do with Tg temp being of -10c to 6c.
Interesting. Solid metal plate under the build surface, keep it in the freezer and bring it out just before printing?
In my experience, there are 3 major downfalls to PHA:
1. Warping, as you mentioned
2. Bridging, as you mentioned briefly
3. Malleability or lack of rigidity. PHA is very soft compared to PLA or PETG, which makes it unsuitable for structural prints. Anything
Shore 70D already tells the story
Any experience with how it behaves with other filaments for support? It's probably difficult to get any other filaments to work on a cold bed at the same time.
We have begun testing PHA for use in my Conifer nursery. I am excited at the possibility of manufacturing my own root pruning bio-degradable containers instead of being reliant on Jiffy.
I'd see about using a paper based method for that. Can fold newspaper as a quick option, or perhaps build a mould and fill it with pulp... need to try that.
Anyone else notice the description says "all onions expressed are my own"
That is a biodegradable typo.
Onion hoarder alert !
Michael does have a garden!
When he wrote that Michael hadn't had his pi yet.
I love onions
I have a bit of experience with pha. I’ve known it for quite a while and in the plastic industry they call it the sleeping giant because of its untapped potential. The industry is more into recycled plastics (for now at least) than producing true bio polymers. Also (for what I experienced with a couple of moulders) pha is not easy to injection mold with standard equipment and it deforms a lot when out of the mold even after a long cycle time. It’s more dense than common abs and more difficult to source so it costs a lot. Manufacturers are not ready for it it but maybe 3d printing people are, I personally really like the fact that it’s basically bacteria juice! 😊
Very interesting stuff. I noticed that colorFabb from the nEtherlands has something called allPHA which appears to be PHA and in stock. Price point is 25€ for 750g which is pretty ok and not as expensive as I expected given the comments. Definitely gonna try this on the next actual product for selling. Should be a nice alternative to the other filaments.
Edit: Small correction, the price was missing tax, so it's actually 32€/750g. Which puts it about 2x of simple PLA.
I tried out printing with PHA as an alternate material for a flute I designed. It worked pretty well! Just a little sagging on bridges and I made sure to put a big no-clearance brim on it which was easy to remove afterward. Even though it's tougher along the XY plane, I did notice that it wasn't as strong between the layers as PLA. I was able to snap my flute in half by hand (and CA glue it back together). I hope PHA catches on to reduce all the plastic waste 3D printing usually generates. I look forward to the biodegrading tests
Absolutely I would buy it. It's exactly what I'm looking for, and I can fix the warping. Very interested in the next video with actual biodegradability.
Really curious to see how biodegradable this filament is. One thing that always makes me feel guilty about printing is the amount of waste I produce with no viable way to recycle it.
If someone could figure out the warping issues would be all for printing with PHA.
IMO I would rather have plastic that degrades over time and just need to reprint it every once in awhile then something that lasts for thousands of years.
totally the same with me, i wouldn't even mind if the plastic degrades within a month since 50% of what i print by volume are jigs and dimensionaly proofing parts, not actual part that need to last
Biodegradable does not equal compostable. Biodegradable materials need special conditions to biodegrade. Biodegradable materials do not fully biodegrade on their own when thrown into wilderness. These materials can stay for hundreds of years in dirt without fully degrading.
90% of biodegradable stuff is a scam.
You have to keep in mind that if you throw away your PLA prints and they burn them in the garbage disposal the CO2 released is roughly the same amount that the corn the PLA was made of absorbed while growing. So basically, PLA is CO2 neutral, accept for the manufacturing process of course.
Former CTO of Beyond Plastic Here.
"How biodegradable this filament is?"
Easy answer:
The material is TUV Austria Marine Biodegradable Certified (Certification S2979). This is the highest and most stringent certification available today for biopolymers.
In brief, it must pass three test:
1) Marine biodegradability as per ASTM6691
2) Toxicity testing using the above medium with Magna Daphnia, less than 10% mortality rate (we pass with 0%).
3) Disintegration test, 90 days must break down as quick as paper (cellulose). This was actually the toughest test to pass.
New material is being developed, eta December or January launch.
@@fredpinczuk7352 Where's the best place to stay informed of upcoming developments on this?
Aww man, I was very intrigued but the warping is a big deal for me. I'm running a business and thus reliability is key.
I am seriously considering stopping PLA for PHA for my next spool order. Thanks for this video. Compostable and eco friendly plastic is a default choice for me.
The model you choose for the test is a good idea, but I would like to have like a thin layer (just a rectangle) of maybe 0.5mm ? To see holes with a light behind or deformation after composting.
Thanks for the excellent work !
Interested in converting to PHA when generally available.
+1 for the UV resistance testing, there aren't many reviewers who commit to that
7:14 this is very appealing to me, i hate when parts of my prints look like a different color or texture bc of nozzle speed variations. If the warping can be mitigated and the price is reasonable, this might become my goto for basic stuff.
Very good video. You delivered on what you promised, it was descriptive, and it wasn't too long or too short. Thank you. 😊
For the long term test items, I'd say prints that are expected to function would be a better test than art pieces, since people generally are more careful with art (I think).
Tools that natuarlly have to take at least a little bit of abuse, measuring tools to see if any fine details like small numbers are affected, simple mechanisms like a printed planetary gear or similar to see if the mechanism can still act after deg.
Looking forward to the results!
Hi Michael! Good content as usual!
Regarding availability of PHA; I use Colorfabb's PLA/PHA alot, very pleased with it being not as brittle as PLA already with that blend. But more to the point, Colorfabb has a rather new product namely their pure PHA. It's called allPHA and from what I can see, in stock. I tried it when I helped a friend repair his electric kettle. I can only agree on the warping tendencies, but that aside an interesting material.
BR
I'd never heard of PHA until now, but if it performs as you've shown then it seems to be overall better than PLA and much better for the environment.
I'd be willing to pay a small premium and switch to it, if it was priced similar to PLA I'd definitely make the swap... providing that it is better for the environment, so looking forward to your follow up testing!
I was impressed with the heating comparision against PLA, what's the glass transition temp of PHA?
Tg of PHA is -10c to 6 c.
What you really want to know is the heat deflection temperature. And that is 145c range.
Compare to PLA having Tg of 65c and heat deflection temp of 70c.
Same here. I'd pay 50% more for a truly home compostable filament
@@fredpinczuk7352 Thanks, indeed I was looking for the temp at which it softens (which I've often heard others refer to as glass transition temp).
From the video clip showing it in an oven I figured it must be quite a bit higher than PLA
Another Great Video. 1. No plastic wrap, TICK. 2. Print process and quality TICK, 3. Price will be an issue, but the more we see of this test, if biodegradability is proven, I'll put it in the shopping list each time.
Yes, lots of potential benefits - particularly for in-air and in-sun uses requiring more strength. Looking forward to the test results! 14:57 👍
Yes I would switch to PHA if the warping was manageable. I love the idea of putting scraps and failed prints in the compost pile rather than the landfill.
If it actually biodegrades as intended, and the price was right, I would 100% replace PLA in most instances! I like that this stuff is more temperature stable and seems to be tougher than PLA. I generally like impact resistant materials more than the most rigid.
The warping seems to be a pretty hard issue to overcome. I hope it doesn't get "fixed" by blending with materials that don't biodegrade.
If that was readily available. I would 100% consider moving to PHA. Thanks for creating, and sharing this information! I look forward to future updates on the PHA.
Maybe a phone stand for indoor use. That or a container that could be used outdoors and indoor to hold small items.
I was pretty much sold on this filament when I saw it doesn't come with vacuum sealed plastic bag. I like 3D printing because pretty much everything can be recycled and any instance of cutting down on those unsustainable parts of the hobby are great.
The rest of the video had me even more sold as I was expecting it to be much more like PLA rather than having properties more towards what I'd expect from PETG. I'd deffinately consider this over PLA if readily available
It was looking so good up until the warping. That is just not acceptable, especially since it doens't seem to have a workaround to resolving that issue.
One thing you should think about adding to your filament testing is a shrinkage test, such as califlower. Shrinkage is a major issue when printing mechanical parts.
"not acceptable" dude, all common printing materials shrink, have you tried PETG, ABS, ASA, Nylon... :D PLA is quite an exception in that it does not need a heated chamber.
@@PunaJussi The low print temp of PLA, combined with a lower thermal coefficient of expansion, certainly helps. I just printed two parts 14mm wide and 280mm long, laying flat, and they are amazingly flat. So I'll hold off on any "new stuff" until it is as easy to use as PLA or PETG.
@@PunaJussi Nonsense, PETG doesn't have warping issues. PHA seems to warp more than Nylon composites too.
@@oyuyuy _"PETG doesn't have warping issues"_ -- huh? I have problems with PETG prints warping, not all the time, but certainly often enough that I know a claim that it simply "doesn't have warping issues" at all is false.
The warping demo in this video involves very thin vertical walls, which is a different warping profile than PETG has in my experience and appears to be a worst case scenario for PHA. The other prints demonstrate that with more forgiving print scenarios, PHA is perfectly fine. So...know your material, print the right material for the job, mitigate known issues if necessary.
@@harvey66616 Then you're doing something wrong. I've printed 100s of kgs of the stuff and honestly I can only recall like 2 or 3 prints that had warping issues - which was of course easily managed by adding a brim that I should've added from the get go.
Having seen the video and read some of the very informative and helpful comments, I would certainly give it a try. Interesting that it prints best in low temperatures. Sounds like a fun material to try out and hopefully do some useful prints with.
Hopefully it will become more available 🤞
So if I am following this correctly, it prints comparably to PLA in most cases, it has better heat and UV resistance is and is more resilient / less brittle than PLA. I guess we didn't see how well it did with bearing a load. I am very interested to see if this is actually biodegradable. I would absolutely use this with what I know right now, it seems to be better than PLA in a lot of ways.
This may be a pedestrian question, but how does it stack up against ABS? From my perspective, which isn't very sophisticated, the heat and UV resistance are the main benefits of ABS vs PLA, and while those usually aren't a concern for me, sometimes they are. This just seems like it can replace ABS in a lot of use cases without the need for an enclosure and ventilation and have less of a long term environmental implact.
I'd also be interested to learn about other aspects, like is this food safe or plant safe for plants you are going to be harvesting? How is adherence between this and other filaments? How does it clean up? (I haven't printed things where I worry about sanding or painting or vapor smoothing yet, but eventually I will get there).
Wow this looks phenomenal overall. The impact and heat resistance are great qualities. If layer adhesion matches PLA it would be really awesome. The warping is a pain, but hopefully a heated chamber like on my Qidi would help. Great video!
Id definitely make it my primary filament if the tests come back good. Hells. Given the heat test, Id start using it over PETG too.
Wow, I'm in. If the composting works I would be more than happy to just run my old prints through a grinder and throw it in my compost pile. Even if it goes into the landfill I would be happy.
Absolutely love your videos. Great stuff as always!
Hi. It's my first time seeing your impact test jig so apologies if you had it for a long time and I'm making this comment too late; But how it shakes upon each movement of the hammer would act as a dampener for the motion of the hammer and introduces error to your statistics.
I suggest either adding rubber feet in each corner or bolting it to the table. I'd definitely go with the latter.
Thanks for putting great content. Hope I could help with a small matter.
You actually inspired me to try ASA filament (FormFutura AppoloX) from when you made an airbox for your drift Silvia very long time ago.
Cheers!
Biodegradable + saves energy ( no build plate heating requires) + UV resistant (great for outdoor applications)
= almost perfect plastic material
Thanks for this, looking forward to see how fast and easy it degrades.
Interestingly you actually increased the rigidity of the print by putting it in the oven. PHA anneals at room temperature, and crystalizes rapidly at higher temperatures
You know your stuff.
i would for sure give it a try at least if it was available for the same conditions. The heat resistance makes it pretty interesting.
As for your tests, a few things came to my mind regarding the model. It would be interesting to see how much it stays in dimensional accuracy during the test period. So a model with measurable dimensions would be good. Perhaps it would be fun to make a crossover episode with Stefan from CNC Kitchen or Igor from MyTechFun to test more mechanical properties? It sure would be interesting for me, seeing you doing practical prints and test them in everyday use, while one of them tortures testprints in every thinkable way
Interesting filament. Nice temperature hold, good strength and elasticity.
After having constant good results with pa6 trimmer line, warping is not a problem.
I printed a dozen conduit caps in PHA and they have been in the sun and rain all year - good as new!
I run a farm and plastic in our compost sources is a big deal. For testing, solid rods of different diameters would be interesting to see. The thicker the wall, in theory the longer it will take to break down. Small plastic often "break down" but it's more mechanical than chemical.
Not sure if you want to test your pile, but the heat of the pile will make a big different on overall biological activity and the prevalence of particular microbes (e.g. if it needs bacteria to break down, a hot pile may be better than a cooler pile which might be better for fungal processes).
About half way through your video i looked up PHA filament on my favorite ecommerce site. So yes I would love to switch to it.
This would be fantastic if some of the more reputable manufacturers were to step up & tinker with it. I'd absolutely purchase it! The heat resistance alone would make it a go-to filament for me.
For me it needs to be a real upgrade. I switched to PCTG earlier this year and love it too much. I'm worried that the biodegradability of PHA is compromised by different types of pigment that filament producers add. There are pigments that could potentially be bad to environment like the microbes that break down the PHA.
Former CTO of BP here. All pigments were certified to be either inert or biocompatible.
@@fredpinczuk7352 Hey, thanks for replying! Good to know that BP was actually mindful of this. Though I personally wouldn't trust filaments that come from China or unbranded stuff. There's even big filament makers who do not share which pigments they use, which I often try to find in the technical datasheets but it's rarely in there.
With composting, one of the first things I would think of, besides biodegradability, is the use of additives that could be harmful.
I hope this PHA becomes a thing so I can give it a try :)
Id love to switch specially for the added flexibility and lack of moisture retention while still being "better" for the environment. An outdoor degradation test would be interesting.. Bird house maybe?? That said, warping on a 30$ roll is an issue for me so wondering if it has to do with layer adhesion since the brim stayed on the plate. Still happy to pay a slight premium for some plastic that will actually dissapear
100% I would switch!! The lack of recyclability is my number one issue with pla printing. No body recycles it at all where I live :(
Industrial conditions feels inaccessible to the every day person but we use a Lomi home composter for our PLA no problem - so if you are interested in composting your own PLA that's the path I'd recommend!
Thanks. I like the idea of being eco friendly. I don't know how much of a premium I would be willing to pay, yes something 5%, 50% 75% I don't know. I love the concept that it is more departure resistant, and stronger. I assume once it is more popular, there will be better blends, and setting.
I am very interested because a home compostable plastic is a unicorn. It doesn't exist, at least not yet to my knowledge. The "compostable" plastics presently have only been compostable under the highest cost commercial facilities, and then, they have composted minimally. It's not truly compostable if it doesn't fully break down in a reasonable amount of time, say a year in a properly tended residential compost pile. That would be a game-changing product.
Correct, greenwashing PLA products have become the norm. However, you may have noticed that a lot of PLA filament producers have now removed any claims of biodegradability. Or at least the once that do not want to be sued by EU and Canada Anti-greenwashing laws.
We are still playing catchup in the US.
TY for testing this. It's very intersting, but I have enough problems with PLA warping... Does make me wonder what PHA-CF might be like.
It continues to surprise me that plastic is so expensive in the USA. In Argentina we pay 40% cheaper.
I think you should test the biodegradability for sure. It would be nice to see a fine lattice to see how well fine objects break down, but I would also like to see functional parts printed and exposed in the same way to see if they are affected. Maybe objects with fuzzy texture will catch bacteria in the air and degrade on a wall outside, or do stakes in the ground with plant labels loose their stake?
I’m using their PHA for my phone case. Polar filament is working on making some PHA. They are just waiting for more pellets.
Totally interested in PHA. Having a real biodegradable filament will be a very good thing !
I would potentially use it as an ABS replacement. I get spools for about $12 a kilo from Sunlu, so I understand if that’s an unachievable price point. If it were $15-$20 a spool, I would find it worth considering.
It’s worth investigating whether your local government in Australia does industrial composting. Councils that do FOGO bins usually do. If so their process can manage PLA, where ordinary garden composting can’t.
Thank you! PHA needs more coverage to go beyond being a spool of plastic that has random letters in the name. Always wanted to try PHA but availability and price is a problem.
For prototyping and printing random toys is perfect! biodegradability is the most important feature for non functional prints, and should be the norm. I hope it becomes more widely available.
PHA, to me, anyway, seems like a good prototyping material. I mostly work in PLA and PETG (particularly carbon fibre impregnated PETG), so, when working through a design process, I'll often use PLA for design testing and commit to PETG-CF for when I'm happy. This has led to fair pile of waste, which I tend to keep in a kids' toy box that's shaped like a garbage skip - my "bin of shame." The contents never quite fill the bin because I try to reuse this co-mingled PETG and PLA for "melt panels", kind of like small bits of "wood" or "aluminium" by melting them in ceramic nonstick baking trays in a toaster oven. It's good for cutting brackets, soft jaws for my drill vice, axe and hammer handle wedges, etc. It is probably going to catch up with me, though, so having a prototyping material that I can feed to the "better half's" garden would reduce the contents of the bin-of-shame when it nears the brim.
Not having to deal with moisture absorption would be great for me because I don't print that often, would definitely try pha if it was available
Seems really cool, but until there are additives for that warping it seems like a pain to deal with.
Its properties especially with the heat resistance are cool.
In terms of locations, I'd like to see this in a hot car for long periods of time, like just a regular item left in a trunk similar to how a nerf blaster might be for instance.
I would switch to PHA in a heartbeat. I found out about the filament a few years ago but was much to expensive (and out of stock) when I looked into ordering it. I hope it comes back.
with current warping issues, I would use if similar price. I think variety of color options might also create an issue
I would be more likely to replace my PETG rather than PLA. I use PLA because it's easy and doesn't warp, I use PETG for the attributes you mentioned in this video (stiffness, temperature, uv).
Man, aside from the warping, and assuming the biodegradability and uv stability holds true, this would be a great alternative to pla for me. I've got not good options for getting rid of my waste pla, so I just have a bunch of it in bags, waiting for me to either find somewhere to take it for proper composting, or to finally bite the bullet and get set up to recycle it myself.
Very interesting! I'm currently researching toxic emissions (UFPs and VOCs) from 3D printers, wherein PLA actually emits the least airborne material out of the most common materials. I wonder how PHA would perform in this case, and what materials the emissions contain.
Yup, to me the voc emissions will also be huge factor in deciding if i will buy any PHA products in the future. There needs to be more research tho. Right now, there are no health effect / voc studies as far as i know of.
If PHA can be produced at a similar price to PLA or PETG I'd be more than willing to at least try printing it and see how it behaves.
The impact resistance and thermal stability would be extremely useful for a lot of the things I print as I do a lot of functional parts and printer part upgrades.
The warping behaviour is a bit of a concern but I kinda wonder if my experiences printing ABS are anything to go by - anything's fixable with a stable environment, a clean PEI sheet and patience!
I would switch to vPHA if it was same cost as PLA as the other comment stated. One thing on Sticking to the bed. We all know that bed heaters are inconsistent. It is always hotter in the center and cooler as we print out to the edges. I wonder if we had a bed that could heat the same throughout the compleat bed size if that would make any difference in warping for all materials. Q: is warping due to inconsistent cooling of the part during printing. It seems to me that we never see warping of large prints in the center it is always starts at the edges. Again, if we had a bed heater design that heated the bed evenly would that solve or greatly reduce the issue? I wish we had even a crude version of Star Treks Replicator. Maybe 50 or 100 years from now we are going to look back on 3D printing like we do at early computers.
I did use100% Pha from Regen Canada, and it was way better than beyond plastic Pha in terms of warping. I was able to print huge straight objects on my prusa XL on a cold bed. Beyond plastic was abysmal as it would warp 100% of the time. Regen Pha is better than pla and is awesome for fan shrouds, as it won't sag over time. As for composting, I did try it in my hotbin composer and it breaks down at a similar pace as pla, but instead of turning into brittle dust, it retains structure. So far I have not observed a full decomposition after a year. Overall, I would suggest trying Pha by regent at 230c+. I saw it is still stocked in Canadian Amazon.
I would absolutely use PHA if available. A lot of my prints are prototypes that are destined for the bin, so being able to toss them in the compost would be huge
does seem to tick enough boxes to switch from pla/pla+ but the warping is definitely a pain. as for test print, i recon an egg in vase mode should be great model to test shape, strengh, decomposition etc
I would buy PHA to test out if its around $10-$13 for a 1kg roll. I use a lot of cheap PLA for prototyping, so it would be great having a filament that actually breaks down in the landfill.
If the price wasn't obscene, I would definitely give it a shot... especially after seeing that it worked fairly well.
Realistically, as much as I'd want to switch to PHA (even if it was a little bit more expensive), I probably wouldn't go ahead. That's purely down to the warping, which i think could be very frustrating as it looks tricky to overcome. That said, i'd definitely buy a spool and try it out.
The only PHA I've seen for sale is the Colorfabb and at 3 times the price of a good PLA filament.
I'll probably give it a try but I can't warrant the price for regular use.
Hopefully if more people start using it the cost will go down and I'm sure the warping issue can be addressed in future updated formulae.
Apart from the warping, this seems straight up too good to be true. We will follow its career with great interest.
I'd buy it. It would be great for the trinket items and blocky light mechanical parts. A huge benefit on guilt factor alone.
Really interested in the follow up on this.
I can only guess that if you were to use a heated bed and a chamber, it wouldn't warp that much. The chamber usually helps a *lot*!
Your default PLA PA, 0.050, is pretty high. Looking over the results of the ~200 calibrations I’ve performed, only PETG consistently exceeds 0.050. Silk PLA is frequently above 0.040 but most PLA results are 0.030 or less.
The “DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN” error you had in your browser indicates a DNS problem, not that the website was down.
I would consider using it. Availability is the primary concern.
BP seems to be down, but the dev team of the filament is working hard on new materials, including TPU products!
To me the big benefit to using PLA as opposed to other plastics is that it can be broken down within the human or any animal's body. That means very little health hazard, while still being extremely resistant to degradation in normal soil conditions, unlike PVC/ABS.
Would extra cooling (such as an external fan) limit warping?
Also are there any methods to smooth the PHA, similar to ABS and acetone?
Regarding the biodegradability in compost or soil, it would be interesting to know what happens to the degrading microorganisms. Is the material a "superfood" for the organisms, or is it more toxic, causing them to die off quickly? What happens to the excretions of these organisms? Do they act like a fertilizer for the soil, or are they more like inhibitory substances that make the soil "worse"? What happens to any manufacturing additives that may have been used?
A material is not inherently good and environmentally friendly just because it decomposes.
Thanks for the video. I would be interested in it, if it did not cost more than PLA. I was thinking for your tests maybe you can print a phone holder and keep it in your car in the heat and cold and see how it performs.
I will be interested to see one other aspect which is how much microplastics are being released . Not sure that you will have the ability to assess that,but I think it is a very fair question to ask
Unfortunately the warping quite honestly kills it for me. The last thing I want to deal with is ABS like problems on cheaper prints. I'm just not going to use glue unless there is just no other choice.
I would definitely try PHA although my issue is that I’m only running Marlin on an old Tevo Tornado and on a Creality CRS 10 smart pro so I do t have the input shaping abilities that you do with Klipper and am limited with G Code adjustments as I am using Cura as my slicer, so Mabel you could try and run a sample with only basic equipment like I have.
Regards
Jeff
I got all excited for this filament, and now kits not available! Bummer! I don’t. Are so much about its bio properties, but I do care about its other properties! So even if it doesn’t decompose as claimed, I’m still interested. Maybe even more interested. I’d like to see its UV stability in real life testing, as well as chemical resistance (specifically petroleum products like gas and oil).
The warping is a problem. I already had this problem with PETG, and it makes life really hard. The better heat stability and UV resistance, on the other hand, would be a bonus. Hard to say if I would buy it. I might give it a try, but the warping does not sound good.
I would use it to offset PLA use but PLA is so easy to use and comes in so many flavors.
But most cases where I'm not worried about warping I would love to cut down on plastic waste.
I wonder about 3 things: 1, availability. this stuff sees to be VERY hard to find.
2, creeping. I don't print PLA much at all anymore, because under even light load it will creep and deform over time. This stuff might fare a little better, judging by the temp resistance.
3: compostability. Sure, this seems like a good thing, but it also tells me that this plastic is a horrible material to use outdoors, as mechanical parts and even protective parts will decompose and fail. even ABS is not suitable thanks to how it degrades in the sun.
Ergo: this seems like a plastic that, if you can find it, is meant for stuff you intend to throw away or keep indoors... and I dunno about you, but I don't exactly want my decorative parts like sculptures and stuff to decompose after a year or 3.
According to the website it needs to be eaten by micro organisms to degrade. So if you keep it away from soil it should be good. I'll find out soon enough.
@@TeachingTech Keep us updated! cos if those issues aint... well, issues, then it's a very cool material beyond just written details.
I'm okay with 3 years. 1 year not so much. 3 years, though, just reprint it if it's still relevant. The problem is many 3d prints end up binned long before 3 years and don't biodegrade anytime soon.
@chublez That's you, not me. I print stuff that I still use 5 years later. Half the problem of pollution is this "Throwaway culture". Rather than making stuff that lasts, everyone is just "Nah ill throw it away, buy a new one or make a new one." Rather than improving.
As a side note, you mention PLA becomes brittle hinting that was because of moisture, I'd like to see testing with PLA to see if brittleness could actually be due to UV exposure instead.
I know a friend of mine that has her own PHA company known as Plastus and they make their own PHA and she said that there's few companies that make PHA and I actually did a test to see if it's bio Degradable and buried all the print waste in our garden and it degraded within months but the problem is with warping it warps too much other than that it's a good alternative to PLA
Yeah i think i would be interested in PHA if it where available at a good cost. But the warping would be a little bit of an issue. I would print some benchys for the test as they are prob the most printed 3d model ever. Cheers for the video.
If this was available and affordable I would switch to it for sure. I sometimes need to print things just to test shape or fit and sometimes things like drilling templates. I do those in PLA because that is at least nof a fossil. PHA sounds like it would be way better for it than PLA at least for prints where the warping can be tolerated.
I wonder if the warping could be solved by adding some fibers. Not carbon obviously, we would want something biodegradable as well. For other warpy filaments adding fibers can even make them printable without encloser so it could work. Maybe something like wood fibers could even enhance the biodegradability if the fibers rot first and create a ton of holes for the bacteria to go inside to eat the PHA.
Good vid. Thanks. I would certainly buy PHA if it was the same price as PLA.
Definitely, even if it's a bit harder to print than pla!
just a detail but the fact that a polymer is petroleum or bio based has no link with its biodegradability. A bit of misleading from beyond plastic...
Yeah, if it were that simple then PLA would be truly biodegradable too. But this one seems legit
PHA is indeed biodegradable, the Beyond Plastic team had the certifications necessary to prove it from outside organizations and governing bodies to show it wasn't false advertising.
"We create plant-based, 100% biodegradable plastics". They never say it's biodegradable because it's a bio plastic. They say it's a bio plastic that's biodegradable.
Look up TUF Austria Marine Biodegradation Certification number S2949.
Should answer your question my little keyboard warrior.
No greenwashing at Beyond plastic, not while under my leadership.
What the current ownership does next, I can't answer.
I'd swap, seems enclosed printer with chamber hester would be ideal.
Softening temperature seems high enough to use 55c chamber .
I think a lattice cube will be too thin, it might just be gone after a while, possibly thru erosion not degradation
Something with different thickness wold be good to determine how long it takes for the decomposition to go beyond surface level