Praise God the eternal Father and his only begotten Son for the Eternal Truth that you have presented Pastor. The 144,000 are formed and grounded on these Eternal Truth the Foundation of our Faith.
If you believe there are three persons in the Godhead please answer this question regarding the three angels' message. Should we "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come" or should we "Fear THE Gods and give glory to Them, for the hour of Their judgment is come?" Asking for a friend.
Of course there is a logical answer. To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this Word there is no light in them. Isa 8:20 @@sheilafeazell82
With this question you show that you are still caught in the katholic ontological thinking. Think like a jew: Dan.7:13,14 are there 2 powers in heaven? Jesus to the Pharisees: before Abraham was, "I am" - and the want to kill him because of "blasphemy" - making himself god-like. This happened at many occasions. If you want to understand who Jesus was, ask his enemies!! In the OT: intro to Isa53: God comes to his people - but guess who comes? The suffering servant, bearing our iniquity - start to think like a jew😊
HOW INTERESTING! 1889 - D. M. Canright [a prominent leader in Adventism who left the church in 1887] publishes a book, "Seventh-day Adventism Renounced". In the book, on pg 25, he levels against his former brethren stating, "they reject the doctrine of the Trinity".
This appears to be false, but D. M. Canright himself appears to have made the original misstatement that leads to this incorrect conclusion. If I have found a true copy of that book, what he in fact actually said on that page of his book regarding Adventists is that they "believe in the sonship of Christ." He made no mention of the Trinity anywhere on that page. However, in a later article he apparently _said_ that he had made the statement you reference, giving that page as its source. Either there exists another version of his book which he references, or apparently, his memory was at fault, for neither his 1888 edition, nor his 1889 edition of that book (so far as I could ascertain) comes anywhere close to that expression--on any page. The books are available on the archive site online, in PDF form. His article, published over 25 years later in "The Christian Workers Magazine, Volume 16, 1915 p.84," states the following: In my book, "Seventh-day Adventism Renounced," page 25, I give a summary of their doctrines and use exactly these words. So I judge you accepted my statement as reliable. I now re-affirm my statement: "They reject the doctrine of the trinity" as held by evangelical churches, as the previous line in my book states.
If our fundamental beliefs they have been changed then I remain into the fundamental law of my Heavenly Father. My only one God can save me today and tomorrow until he comes and no other one.
Wow! This was spoken 9 years ago? What a tragedy! And since then, the conferences have spiraled downward in apostasy... What does that say about witnessing today. Wow!
The SDA church spent 5.5. million $ to make a movie called Let Them Know.The professional actress they hired to portray Ellen White(actresses name is Tommi Amber Perie) performed in lesbian porn movies,demon possession movies,and played Leon Trosky a communist,wife.MarkFinley highly recommended this movie to the youth of the SDA church.Then Finley makes a podcast on how music,eating donuts and drinking coffee by church members will destroy God's church.
@@SundayKeeper The fact is that this actress did an excellent job of portraying the person of Ellen White; what she has done with her life is her problem alone.
@@Edupier Understood. However, whoever selected the cast for this movie has to be more thoughtful. Perhaps this actress made these other bad decisions after she was cast in this movie.
I read somewhere that to avoid being labeled a “cult” the conference agreed to the trinity doctrine. Not sure if this is true but wanted to share it. Praying for opportunities to share this message and many thanks!
Read "Our Evangelism Earthquake" by Vance Ferrell for an excellent reading in what brought about the changes in many of EGW writings as well as changes in SDA Foundations. Beginning in the late 40s and continuing for years, a great compromise was made to Evangelicals reportedly to avoid the label of "cult.". What a compromise the GC made to Pioneer beliefs.😢
Which boat? The one that Ellen White and the founders of the church are on??? Or the other one that agrees with JH Kellogg on the trinity and has 28 Fundamental Beliefs??? Check which boat you're on before you stay on it!
45:34 I am so glad that I stick to the simple principle of actually reading the context of every text that is presented in every video I watch. You, dude, have taken the statements out of context to the point that this channel should be called “Kings of Out of Context talk”… where is the thumb down Repent!
The beauty of facts is that they are plain and simple and cannot be manipulated. The changed in the beliefs is a histori facts, not something taken out of context. Please consider it.
@@S.D.P the EGW quotes are taken out of context. Please consider reading the whole chapter and you will see that she’s talking what would happen if we were to follow the Alpha Apostacy which was “the Living Temple”, not that the last day church will change from what pioneers believed. This video well met be the Omega. I leave it up to you.
@@vrcunEGW was saying if we follow the principle taught in the Living Temple of changing the personality and presence of God that is changing a pillar and not a single pillar should be changed. And yet our pillars have changed. You cannot compare the 1872 or 1889 Fundamental Principles to our current Fundamental Beliefs and not see the changes
@@vrcun no. I am saying that as Kellogg's beliefs did away with the pillar doctrine of the personality of God and Christ so has the current belief as stated in the 28 Fundamental Beliefs.
Brother, I greatly appreciate your message as truly Adventist in nature. It is what I am looking for that is missing from the local church. I counsel one thing. You are a person with good physical hearing. I am completely deaf but with the benefit of cochlear implants so I do hear you. What I am thinking is, be careful to not drop your voice with the intent of emphasis to your words. Your message can be compromised for those that are hard of hearing and miss the message. Just a thought.
When the power of God testifies to what is truth, the truth is to stand forever as the truth. No after suppositions, contrary to the light God has given are to be entertained. Men will arise with interpretations of Scripture which are to them truth, but which are not truth. THE TRUTH FOR THIS TIME, GOD HAS GIVEN US AS A FOUNDATION FOR OUR FAITH. HE HIMSELF has taught us what is truth. One will arise and still another with new light which contradicts the light that God has given under the demonstration of His Holy Spirit. A few are still alive who passed through the experience gained in the establishment of this truth. God has graciously spared their lives to repeat and repeat till the close of their lives, the experience through which they passed even as did John the apostle till the very close of his life. And the standard bearers who have fallen in death, are to speak through the reprinting of their writings. I am instructed that thus [their] voices are to be heard. They are to bear their testimony as to what constitutes the truth for this time. WE ARE NOT TO RECEIVE THE WORDS OF THOSE WHO COME WITH A MESSAGE THAT CONTRADICTS THE SPECIL POINTS OF OUR FAITH. They gather together a mass of Scripture, AND PILE IT AS PROOF around their asserted theories. THIS HAS BEEN DONE OVER AND OVER AGAIN DURING THE PAST FIFTY YEARS. And while the Scriptures are God's Word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application MOVES ONE PILLAR of the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {PH020 14.2} Elder Ballenger's proofs are not reliable. If received they would destroy the faith of God's people in the truth that has made us what we are. {PH020 15.1} We must be decided upon this subject; for the points he is trying to prove by Scripture, are not sound. They do not prove that the past experience of God's people was a fallacy. WE HAD THE TRUTH; we were DIRECTED BY THE ANGELS OF GOD. It was under THE GUIDANCE OF THE Holy Spirit that the presentation of the sanctuary question was given. It is eloquent for everyone to keep silence in regard to the features of our faith, in which they acted no part. GOD NEVER CONTRADICTS HIMSELF. Scripture proofs are misapplied if forced to testify to that which is not true. Another and still another will arise and bring IN SUPPOSEDLY GREAT LIGHT, and make their assertions. But we STAND BY THE OLD LAND-MARKS. We are hindered in our work by men who are not converted WHO SEEK THEIR OWN GLORY. They wish to be thought originators of new theories, which they present claiming that they are truth. But if these theories are received they will lead to a denial of the truth that for the past fifty years God has been giving to this people, substantiating it by the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. (Signed) Ellen G. White. {PH020 15.2}
If we only followed the Bible, as even Ellen White counsels us to understand before reading her writings on a subject, the Trinity would be a non-issue. The Bible is so clear! Consider the following verses which compare God and Christ. "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, ..." (Numbers 23:19; cf. 1 Samuel 15:29) versus "When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?" (Matthew 16:13) "God is a Spirit: ..." (John 4:24; Jesus' own words) versus "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39; again Jesus' own words) "...God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) versus "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living." (Romans 14:9) "...God cannot be tempted with evil, ..." (James 1:13) versus "Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil." (Matthew 4:1) "No man hath seen God at any time..." (John 1:18; 1 John 4:12). versus "When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not." (Luke 8:28) "Be not deceived; God is not mocked:..." (Galatians 6:7) versus "And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him." (Luke 22:63) [Yes, people sometimes _think_ to mock God, but the Bible never refers to God being mocked.] These are just direct comparisons, to say nothing of the places where the Father is said to be "the only true God" (John 17:1-3) and both Jesus' God and our God (John 20:17).
Amen - - about the 'Deformation' taking place. Its a DISGRACE. It is also frankly disgusting - to see Adventist churches taking on Sunday keeping characteristics -- to preach only smooth things and community. Moving away from fundamental beliefs, and the plain testimony. The slide on 1889 (pillars 1 & 2) vs 2005 fundamental belief 2 'The Trinity". Certainly a watering down of the belief. However, even the 1889 beliefs there are speaking about a trinity - it just does not use that word. There is God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit -- throughout scripture EACH of these is spoken of as a person. They are only ONE in that they have the same Character, Same Love, Same Goals. Just as in regard to man and wife... Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Are they a single entity - no. It speaks to their common purposes and views. --- I do loath the 'deformation' of the church. We have seen the apostacies in the church growing worse and worse. But even Ellen White herself does not promote us creating offshoots from the Adventist Church. How much change could be created in the Adventist Church IF we had more people behind keeping God's truths, and not pandering to Satan's agenda, his watering down of the gospel, his sidelining of the need of obedience, and other areas of apostacy. We need to stand up where ever we are to address these apostacies, while trying to teach others - where we are at; even if now a lone voice in these churches. In either case -- we are not called to split into the church militant... "God has a church upon the earth who are His chosen people, who keep His commandments. He is leading, not stray offshoots, not one here and one there, but a people. The truth is a sanctifying power; but the church militant is not the church triumphant. There are tares among the wheat. “Wilt thou then that we ... gather them up?” was the question of the servant; but the master answered, “Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.” The gospel net draws not only good fish, but bad ones as well, and the Lord only knows who are His. It is our individual duty to walk humbly with God. We are not to seek any strange, new message. We are not to think that the chosen ones of God who are trying to walk in the light compose Babylon. Although there are evils existing in the church, and will be until the end of the world, the church in these last days is to be the light of the world that is polluted and demoralized by sin. The church, enfeebled and defective, needing to be reproved, warned, and counseled, is the only object upon earth upon which Christ bestows His supreme regard." Councils For The Church pg. 240.1" "Some have advanced the thought that, as we near the close of time, every child of God will act independently of any religious organization. But I have been instructed by the Lord that in this work there is no such thing as every man's being independent. [From manuscript read before the delegates at the General Conference Session, Washington, D.C., May 30, 1909.]-Testimonies for the Church 9:257, 258 (1909)." "As we near the final crisis, instead of feeling that there is less need of order and harmony of action, we should be more systematic than heretofore.-Selected Messages 3:26 (1892)." How does one split off on the basis of what Ellen White said versus what the 'conference' is promulgating today; ...but then go against what she says regarding there being the need to stand behind the Adventist Church and not splinter. Satan loves to divide and conquer. RH
From what I understood, you made it seem that there is no difference in the belief between the pioneers and the church today. That is factually incorrect. The doctrine of the trinity is a newly accepted belief. The fundamental principles of 1889 mention the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. We believe in the heavenly trio, which has nothing to do with doctrine of the trinity that adventists uphold today. As for your second remark, I belive you need to examine it from the following perspective. The organized church of today is the one that separated from the truth. We believe in an organized body of believers that stands upon the Bible and we are working towards that goal. The "conference" split of from that truth but God will rebuild and will have a people who stand firm and work unitedly. Hope this helps. Blessings Vasko Belovski
‘THEY WERE TWO, yet little short of being identical; two in individuality, yet ONE IN SPIRIT,” - (E.G. White, YI, Dec 16, 1897) “The ONLY Being who was one with God lived the law in humanity, descended to the lowly life of a common labourer, and toiled at the carpenter's bench with His earthly parent.” - Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, October 14, 1897
“God and Christ ALONE know what the souls of men have cost.” - Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, January 13, 1909 TWO BEINGS “Can anyone consider the condescension of God in preparing the gospel feast, and its great cost, and treat the invitation slightingly. No man, nor even the highest angel, can estimate the great cost; it is known ONLY to the Father and the Son.” - Ellen G. White, The Bible Echo, October 28, 1895 ONLY TWO BEINGS “CHRIST the Word, the only-begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,-one in nature, in character, and in purpose,-the ONLY being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. By Christ, the Father wrought in the creation of all heavenly beings.” - Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, p. 493 “But to us there is but ONE God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and ONE Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” 1 Corinthians 8:6 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” John 17:3Y
Lucifer was next in honour to Jesus. [before the fall] Lucifer in heaven, before his rebellion, was a high and exalted angel, next in honour to God's dear Son.. SR 13.1 Before the fall of Lucifer: (1) “God is a moral governor as well as a Father. He is the Lawgiver. He makes and executes His laws” {12MR 208.2}. (2) “The Son of God was next in authority to the great Lawgiver” {2SP 9.1}. (3) “Satan was once a covering cherub in the heavenly courts, the angel next in power to Christ Himself” {CTr 200.2}. “Lucifer in heaven, before his rebellion, was a high and exalted angel, next in honour to God’s dear Son” {SR 13.1}. During the fall of Lucifer: “The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that He might in the presence of all the angels confer special honour upon His Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made known that it was ordained by Himself that Christ, His Son, should be equal with Himself; so that wherever was the presence of His Son, it was as His own presence. The word of the Son was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the Father” {1SP 17.2}. “Satan thought that he was himself a favourite in Heaven among the angels. He had been highly exalted; but this did not call forth from him gratitude and praise to his Creator. He aspired to the height of God himself” {1SP 18.1}. “Satan’s dissatisfaction first commenced in heaven because he could not be first and highest in command - equal with God, exalted above Christ. He rebelled and lost his estate; and he, and those who sympathized with him, were turned out of heaven” {1T 293.3}. After the fall of Lucifer: Gabriel replaced Lucifer. “It was Gabriel, the angel next in rank to the Son of God, who came with the divine message to Daniel” {DA 234.2}. “The words of the angel, ‘I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God,’ show that he holds a position of high honour in the heavenly courts. ... Wonderful thought - that the angel who stands next in honour to the Son of God is the one chosen to open the purposes of God to sinful men” {DA 99.1}. In the crisis, Gabriel “the mighty angel who stands in God’s presence, occupying the position from which Satan fell, came to the side of Christ” {DA 693.3}. “God informed Satan that to his Son ALONE he would reveal his secret purposes, and he required all the family in heaven, even Satan, to yield him implicit, unquestioned obedience;” - Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, January 9, 1879
Some Adventists think the order in heaven was (1) Father, (2) Son, (3) Spirit. But inspired writings say that Lucifer was next to the Son of God. The truth is, the Spirit is not a Being or Individual separate from the Father and Son, but Their own Spirit. The Spirit is “the Spirit of your Father” (Matthew 10:20), which Spirit the Son receives from His Father, “for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto Him” (John 3:34), “the Spirit of God” is also “the Spirit of Christ” (Romans 8:9), if you “are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts” (Galatians 4:6), and “the Lord is that Spirit” (2 Corinthians 3:17). “We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ” {Lt66-1894 1.6600}. “The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency, that through His grace we might be complete in Him” {14MR 84.3}. “It is not your spirit that is going into heaven; it is Christ’s spirit” {1888 905.2}. There are only two divine Beings (God and His Son); the Holy Spirit is Their own Spirit.
*THE REMNANT ALREADY EXISTS* (It is not a future group of believers or one that started in 1844) The "remnant" in its current form has been present for the last 2000 years, but it has always been present in those who are the faithful members of the household of God. The apostle Paul informs us that the Jews at the time of Christ who had accepted Jesus as messiah are considered the true remnant. Those Jews who were in disbelief of Christ as messiah were broken off so that the rest of the world , the gentile believers, could now be grafted into the true Israel of God. So we who are gentiles who are now grafted into the tree *are also part of the remnant* , which is the true holy root of the olive tree. Rom 11:5 *_"So too at the PRESENT time there is a remnant, chosen by grace_* Rom 11:16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and *_if the root is holy, so are the branches_* Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others *_and now SHARE in the nourishing root of the olive tree_*
The third Angel’ message will not be comprehended , the light which will lighten the earth with its glory will be called false light, by those who refuse to walk in its advancing glory. - RH May 27, 1890 See also May 15, 1888, p. 5 ( “ A Call to A Deeper Study of the Word of God, “ November 1, 1888.) [1 MR56.04] p. 2, para 2, [1888MS]. Goes deeper for those who want to inquire. Also this is very important! Great controversy 1858 p. 75, para 1
Heavenly intelligences co-operate with the human agent and impress the truth upon the heart. Abiding in Christ we are able to exert an influence over others; but IT IS BECAUSE OF THE PRESENCE OF HIM who says: “Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” Matthew 28:20. The power we have to overcome Satan is the result of CHRIST WORKING IN US to will and to do of His good pleasure. 6T 399.2
@Kerry Lucks @ Robert Varnadoe Thank you for this quote. Here's another truth-filled video that's very helpful: "What did the SDA Pioneers say about the Trinity doctrine? (Short version)" from Divine Health & Life (SDP) ruclips.net/video/E3fGSS-erco/видео.html
The Changes was the Godhead to Trinity. The Godhead is person of our LORD God Jesus Christ Himself alone while the Trinity is three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit who communicate with one another.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus
"The mystery of the Trinity is the central doctrine of the Catholic Faith. Upon it are based all the other teachings of the church." (Handbook for Today's Catholic, p. 11) "Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in scripture. But the Protestant Churches have themselves accepted such dogmas, as the Trinity, for which there is no such precise authority in the Gospels." (Graham Greene, [celebrated Catholic Author], Life Magazine, 30 Oct. 1950, p.51 - source) "As fundamental errors, we might class with this counterfeit sabbath other errors which Protestants have brought away from the Catholic Church, such as sprinkling for baptism, the TRINITY, the conciousness of the dead and eternal life in misery. The mass who have held these fundamental errors, have doubtless done it ignorantly; but can it be supposed that the church of Christ will carry along with her these errors till the judgement scenes burst upon the world? We think not." (James White, Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Sept. 12, 1854, vol. 6, no. 5, page 36.7)
“For the benefit of those who may desire to know more particularly the cardinal features of the faith held by this denomination, we shall state that Seventh-day Adventists believe,- “1. In the divine TRINITY. This TRINITY consists of THE ETERNAL FATHER, a personal, SPIRITUAL BEING, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, THE SON OF THE ETERNAL FATHER, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption.” (F.M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, Oct 9, 1913, pg21)
@@ericfolks1503 Was this what was laid down in the first 50 years?? I think you will find that the SDA church now believes in THREE CO-EQUAL CO-ETERNAL BEINGS. You just need to look up the current Fundamental Beliefs and more to the point what the SDA church believes regarding the TRINITY.
ONLY TWO BEINGS If Ellen White taught that the Holy Spirit is a third “BEING” or a literal “person” if you prefer, then the following quotes would all reveal three “BEINGS.” But if the Holy Spirit is the person of the Spirit of Christ as per the expression she used that has confused so many, then she will reveal “ONLY” two beings “ALONE” every time without fail.
“The Father and the Son ALONE are to be exalted.” - Ellen G. White, The Youth's Instructor, July 7, 1898 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
Did she say the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ALONE are to be exalted? No she did not!
And again, “God and Christ ALONE know what the souls of men have cost.” - Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, January 13, 1909 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
“God informed Satan that to his Son ALONE he would reveal his secret purposes, and he required all the family in heaven, even Satan, to yield him implicit, unquestioned obedience;” - Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, January 9, 1879 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
“Can anyone consider the condescension of God in preparing the gospel feast, and its great cost, and treat the invitation slightingly? No man, nor even the highest angel, can estimate the great cost; it is known ONLY to the Father and the Son.” - Ellen G. White, The Bible Echo, October 28, 1895 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
If the Holy Spirit was a third co-equal being then it would also know. But since it is the Spirit of Christ, then not so.
“The ONLY Being who was one with God lived the law in humanity, descended to the lowly life of a common laborer, and toiled at the carpenter's bench with His earthly parent.” - Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, October 14, 1897 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
“CHRIST the Word, the only-begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,-one in nature, in character, and in purpose,-the ONLY being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. By Christ, the Father wrought in the creation of all heavenly beings.” - Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, p. 493 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
A Trinitarian cannot make any of these statements above. There can be no doubt that Ellen White declares that there are “ONLY” two beings “ALONE” as the third entity is not a third BEING but the Spirit of Christ. All the above is just a small example of what could be given. Ellen White not only states hundreds of times in different ways that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, and hence not a third being, but she also confirms that there are only two beings.
"God is our Father, Christ is our Saviour. See 2 Peter 1:16-21." - Ms43, p. 1896.7, Dec. 27, 1896 ONLY TWO BEINGS How many beings does the Bible say there are? “But to us there is but ONE God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and ONE Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” 1 Corinthians 8:6 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
@@ericfolks1503 MORE APOSTASY FROM ADVENTIST THEOLOGIANS: “The divine beings entered into the roles they had agreed upon before the foundations of the world were laid.” - Gordon Jensen - Adventist Review, October 31, 1996 p.12 “The Father-Son relationship in the Godhead should be understood in a metaphorical sense, not in a literal sense.”- Max Hatton - Understanding the Trinity, p.97 “Jesus became the Son of God at His human birth.” - Max Hatton - Understanding the Trinity, p.97 “They also took certain positions or roles to carry out the provisions of the plan.” - Pastor Holbrook - These Times - Our Times, Frank Answers - June 1981 “The Father seems to act as a source, the Son [act] as a mediator, and the Spirit [act] as actualizer or applier.” Seventh-day Adventists Believe… A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines, 1988 - p24 “In the economy of function, different members of the Godhead perform distinct tasks in saving man.” Seventh-day Adventists Believe.. A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines, 1988 - p.24 “THEY HAVE TAKEN DIFFERENT ROLES OR POSITIONS IN THE GODHEAD’S WORK OF CREATION, REDEMPTION AND THE LIVING ADMINISTRATION OF THE UNIVERSE.” - Woodrow Whidden - The Trinity, p. 243 “The Son is not the natural, literal Son of the Father. … The term “Son” is used metaphorically when applied to the Godhead.” Angel Manuel Rodriguez, Adventist World, November 2015 issue, p.42
Thank you for pointing out the differences. But there is something that you did not cover in this presentation. 1889: I - That there is one God, a personal, spiritual being, THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS II - That there is one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Eternal Father, the by whom HE CREATED ALL THINGS, and by whom they do consist If God created all things and Jesus created all things, are they not ONE?
God created all things by His Son Jesus Christ: “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:” (Ephesians 3:9)
The second temple was not honored with the cloud of Jehovah's glory, but with the living presence of One in whom dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily-who was God Himself manifest in the flesh. GC 24.2
@@franklinsitompul6927 Why does all the fullness of the Godhead dwell in Christ? “For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;” (Colossians 1:19) As the Son of God, Jesus is truly God in infinite nature (as you inherited the same nature as your father), but He is not God in personality (as you are not your father). “The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is truly God in infinity, but not in personality.” (20LtMs, Ms 116, 1905, par. 19)
If Ellen White was so very wrong about the Trinity (and she was) its impossible for SDA's to uphold her words as divine ispired word of God. Also, if you are to believe and teach that you have a huge problem. Islam! They also have a prophet that claims to have had visions and received divine guidance, new truths and inspired writings. Hinduism and Momonism likewise. Want TRUTH? Just stick to the true inspired word of God within the pages of the bible. Ypu and many other religions have commity the cardinal sin of Adding to and Taking from Gods word. The great dissspointment was clearly a time to repent but sadly an elaborate cover-up story wss invented. A story not recorded in scripture. I hope and pray that God continues to bring you out of error and use you mightily. So very much of what you do and what you teach is wonderful.
In 1913 we published a trinitarian statement of beliefs: “For the benefit of those who may desire to know more particularly the cardinal features of the faith held by this denomination, we shall state that Seventh-day Adventists believe,- 1. In the divine Trinity. This Trinity consists of the eternal Father, a personal, spiritual being, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the eternal Father, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, 9th October 1913,)
@@chrischung2365no we didn't. One person summed up his belief whether right or wrong. It wasn't a statement from the church. You continue to be dishonest in your telling of history.
@@robertvarnadoe8791 the 1872 statement was written by just one person. According to Pastor Vasko, this person was Uriah Smith. Uriah would later in life publish the following statement that makes it clear that he believed in a trinity: YET in the formula for baptism, the name ” Holy Ghost,” or “Holy Spirit,” is associated with that of the Father and the Son. And if the name can be thus used, why could it not properly stand as a part of the same TRINITY in the hymn of praise, ” Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost ” (Uriah Smith, RH Oct 27, 1896) Why are these facts not disclosed?
@@chrischung2365 the difference between the 1872 Fundamental Principles and the Wilcox quote is that the FP specifically stated that is what the church believed whereas Wilcox statement was just his idea. As far as Wilcox believing in the trinity you yet again show your dishonesty. It has been shown to you time and again that the word trinity in Adventist writings can just mean a set of three and not the doctrinal position of a 3 in 1 God or tritheism.
For this is life eternal that they may know thee(god the father)the only true God and Jesus Christ (begotten son) though has send. Only 2 divine beings, that 3rd God is Lucifer, He wants to be worshipped as God,
You are so wrong about the so-called Trinity my brother pastor Vasko. I think elder David Gates when he mentioned the trinity in the sermon that you quoted, it was in the context of using the wrong term. The bible talk of the Godhead as opposed to the Trinity. Trinity is a Catholic doctrine. According to the bible, the Godhead consists of God the Father, God the Son(Jesus Christ) and God the Holy Spirit. The biblical references are so many and I just cannot understand how someone like you who clearly are clued about the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy could have missed that unless you are in denial about the Godhead as given in the bible. Please do not mislead people about things that are not true.
Actually, the Bible does not teach about one God in three persons. The Bible teaches that there is one God, the Father, who has an only begotten Son, and is everywhere present by His Holy spirit. You mentioned that the biblical references are so many, yet nowhere in the bible do we see that there is one God in three persons, or that Jesus isn't His Son. The same can be said about the testimonies. This is why it was pointed in the presentation to see the difference between the beliefs Ellen White ascribed to and the beliefs of today. Blessings Vasko
Here below are the Biblical references and also extracts from the Spirit of Prophecy which proves what I am saying. You are so wrong pastor Vasko. The Bible is very clear and the Spirit of Prophecy confirms what the Bible is saying. I do not know what you mean by "beliefs of today". We go by what the Bible says not by the beliefs of today whatever they are John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(The verse is clearly talking about Christ) Colossians 2:9 For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (This is one of the clearest statements of the deity of Christ anywhere in the Bible) Because the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ, Jesus could rightly claim that He and the Father are “one” (John 10:30). Because the fullness of God’s divine essence is present in the Son of God, Jesus could say to Philip, “Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father” (John 14:9). “No one has ever seen God, but the One and only Son”, who is Himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made Him known (John 1:18; Hebrews 1:3). John 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. John 5:26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. I could give more verses but I think these ones will suffice Now let us hear the confirmation from the Spirit of Prophecy: “The work of salvation is not a small matter, but so vast that the highest authorities are taken hold of by the expressed faith of the human agent. The eternal Godhead-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost-is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”-Upward Look, 148. “The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the three holy dignitaries of heaven, have declared that they will strengthen men to overcome the powers of darkness. All the facilities of heaven are pledged to those who by their baptismal vows have entered into a covenant with God.”-5 Bible Commentary, 1110. (Manuscript 92,1901). In the great closing work we shall meet with perplexities that we know not how to deal with; but let us not forget that the Three Great Powers of Heaven are working.” 8 Testimonies 254 “The three powers of the Godhead have pledged Their might to carry out the purpose that God had in mind when He gave to the world the unspeakable gift of His Son.”-EGW, 5 Review, 341. The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave Themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order fully to carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only begotten Son of God, should give Himself an offering for sin. What line can measure the depth of this love?”-Counsels on Health, 222. “There are three living Persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-Those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.”-Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, 63. (Evangelism, 615. “The work is laid out before every soul that has acknowledged his faith in Jesus Christ by baptism, and has become a receiver of the pledge from the three Persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”-6 Bible Commentary, 1074. “In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, man is laid in his watery grave, buried with Christ in baptism, and raised from the water to live the new life of loyalty to God The three great powers in heaven are witnesses; they are invisible but present.”-Manuscript 57, 1900 (6 Bible Commentary, 1074).
To global greenhouse....speaking the truth in love...please tell us the verses in the Bible that contain the phrases God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and then compare all those verses to the ones that contain the phrase God the Father. Do we now get a clear picture of what the Bible teaches on regard to this subject? When men put their touted higher learning upon the plain, simple language of Scripture the picture becomes cloudy. The Jews to whom these sacred writings were entrusted understood that the one true God mentioned in the very first commandment conveyed to them a book that was simple enough that they were ...and as we are ...instructed to teach these words to our children. Hear Oh children...the Lord our God is One Lord. One in Hebrew and in English means one ...not three.Also please note that Godhead is defined as divinity...a quality...not a quantity. I hope and pray that you will also study ALL the verses on this subject as well as allow EGW writings....the evidence for the nontrinitarian teachings of The Bible and SOP are overwhelming and the supposed passages which seemingly point to a Trinity are so few in comparison.....examine the weight of evidence my brother.
@@godschurch8332 I see no reason for the controversy over this issue. I am just an ordinary SDA member who understands what the bible is clearly telling us about the Godhead. I believe the bible verses and the SOP quotes I have given here above are sufficient for anyone to see what the bible teaches about the Godhead. Very clear and unambiguous. Either we choose to accept the clear teachings of the bible or we don't, as simple as that.
Why we need to be BAPTISED in the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost? Is not one enough? Why other 2? Please someone help me to understand this. Also, Why during creation, God used word “US” or OUR? Did God need someone else to help Him to create? Do you think, if US was needed to create, there will be US to SAVE? Friends, only one way to understand Godhead is to know what is SIN and How God is dealing with it. We won’t never waste energy trying to explain Trinity/Trio or Godhead. Always when I speak to my friends, I ask them: do you understand what is SIN? How God is dealing with it? What is God’s Image? How It was lost and how to bring it back in you & me. Is not this very important topic to spend time with? SIN is our common enemy and God is in process to get it away! How? Which way? Through the Son and the Holy Ghost. Example: 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me. John 15:26 I can’t see how God will end this work of redemption without Unity of 3. Father, Son and Holy Ghost. If you take one down, I don’t how you can replace that place. God bless
I had the same question, but it was explained perfectly by pastor Nader Mansour "prove all things" here on RUclips, and to answer one of your questions, if you and I " only us 2" were about to create anything, lets say a painting for instance, i would say to you, let US go gather the materials to create this self portrait of US, so us is 2 people, me and you, God the Father and Jesus His Son "2 people" created adam and eve "2 people" in their likeness, THEY "2 people" did not create 3 people, only 2, hope this helps brother or sister, as it helped me tremendously when i came out of the trinity lie and had to unlearn the lies and seek diligently for Gods truth. We have to worship Him in spirit AND in truth, for the Father seeks those who do. God bless you 🙏 in your journey my friend.
Adventist belief is progressive and we build upon that foundation. David Gates is twisting information after quotations. Changes are the result of bible studies and the man of sin context is what we are quick to cling to, to accuse what is right that is biblical. The man of sin context is different from expounding truth that the Adventist church is studying. It is not the purpose of our church leaders to deter us from the truth but to understand the bible not tradition.
Now I listened carefully to all you said and I appreciate your zeal for the church and the truth! But What you have done is talking about the history of the bakery but not given any bread. You have pointed out - quite superficially I think - that there is change, but never come to a theological ground or argument. The early paradigm, "do you have new light brother", a paradigm of change is ignored. You might not be the only one battling for the contemporary meaning of the church in a world facing the end of time. But I believe this cannot be done by ONLY looking backwards. Please provide more "beef", or soja if you like, but get onto a theological and exegetical basis when you talk about bible-truths.
And these three Powers of heaven are three distinct Personas who each exist in their own right. The term God is like a title more like Management as in an organisation and within that organisation you will have HR Manager, Finance Manager and so forth and so on. So in heaven we have God who is referred as one which as I have indicated is like a title but within that title of Godhead we have these three powers of heaven. The bible is very clear about that. Noone cannot miss that unless they simply refuse to accept the clear teachings of the bible or they have an agenda of their own.
The modern version of the word, ‘remnant’ has lost it’s original meaning, in the minds of the so-called educators of a new doctrine or understanding of the phase ‘remnant church’! This metamorphosis process of transformation, was most definitely all part of a creeping compromise; especially as a result of an unholy indifference to the pure simple beauty of the truth.
What Pastor Vasko left out of his sermon: “For the benefit of those who may desire to know more particularly the cardinal features of the faith held by this denomination, we shall state that Seventh-day Adventists believe,- 1. In the divine Trinity. This Trinity consists of the eternal Father, a personal, spiritual being, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the eternal Father, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, 9th October 1913,)
The trouble is with a lot of people today is that they are using the word ‘trinity’ without properly explaining what they mean by it. Why people should get excited over Wilcox writing that SDA’s believe in a divine trinity I have no idea. Something like 21 years earlier in 1892, the SDA Church published a tract for the public called ‘The Bible Doctrine of the Trinity’. It was made available for about 25 years. It was a re-print of an article written by a Presbyterian minister by the name of Samuel Spear. Why therefore get excited about Wilcox using the word ‘trinity’ in 1913? Wilcox certainly DID NOT EXPLAIN his “divine Trinity” as in the trinity doctrine of today. We know this because 18 years AFTER his 1913 “divine Trinity” statement, he wrote an apology for previously saying, in the Review and Herald, that Christ was the “one and only true God”. This is what he wrote in his apology “When we referred to Christ as the “one and only true God,” the thought in mind was to contrast Him with the gods of the heathen world.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, October 29 1931 pg. 3, ‘Christ is Very God’) If this is what Wilcox meant he should have said so. As it was, he made no mention of this in his article. Hence Wilcox confessed: “The expression was not properly elucidated, and so was unfortunate.” (Ibid) After his apology, Wilcox went on to explain the ‘trinity’ he was advocating (that which he claimed was held by SDA’s). Here is what he said “We recognize the divine Trinity,- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,-each possessing a distinct and separate personality, but one in nature and in purpose, so welded together in this infinite union that the apostle James speaks of them as “one God.” James 2:19. THIS DIVINE UNITY IS SIMILAR TO THE UNITY EXISTING BETWEEN CHRIST AND THE BELIEVER, AND BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT BELIEVERS IN THEIR FELLOWSHIP IN CHRIST JESUS.” (Ibid) This is very important. This is because it explains how, in the 1930’s, SDA’s understood “the divine Trinity”. Wilcox had made these remarks under the sub-heading of The Trinity Explained. This statement by Wilcox completely invalidates the claim made by some that SDA’s in general, were, at that time (1931), believers in the trinity doctrine. This is whether as espoused by what is known as mainstream Christianity, or as held by the present-day (2020) SDA Church. This is because in explaining “the divine trinity”, Wilcox says that the “divine unity” between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is similar to the unity between “Christ and the believer”, also as between fellow Christians. How can this possibly be representative of how the trinity doctrine explains this unity? No true trinitarian would ever make such a statement. Wilcox therefore, when saying “divine Trinity”, could not have been expressing a belief in the trinity doctrine. This is because the trinity doctrine says (as explained by our theologians) “There is only one God (Deut. 6:4), however, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all called God (Matthew 27:46, John 20:28: Acts 5:3-4). Consequently, we do not worship three Gods, but one God who reveals Himself in and consists of three “persons”. THE THREE PERSONS SHARE ONE INDIVISIBLE NATURE. Each person of the Godhead is by nature and essence God, and the fullness of the deity dwells in each of them. ON THE OTHER HAND, EACH PERSON OF THE GODHEAD IS INSEPARABLY CONNECTED TO THE OTHER TWO.” (Ekkehardt Mueller, Biblical Research Institute, Reflections newsletter, July 2008, Page 8, ‘Scripture Applied, - A Bible Study’) This is one the trinity doctrines that is being espoused by a Seventh-day Adventist theologian. (Learn more about the modern SDAs view of Trinity doctrine HERE) It is NOT how Wilcox explained the SDA trinity - and that was in 1931. Wilcox also said in his ‘apology’ “There has been through the centuries some very unfortunate and speculative teaching regarding the divine Trinity, and these philosophies have created great divisions in the Christian church.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, October 29 1931, ‘Christ is Very God’) “No outward shrines may be visible, there may be no image for the eye to rest upon, YET WE MAY BE PRACTICING IDOLATRY . . . Thousands have a false conception of God and His attributes. They are as verily serving a false god as were the servants of Baal. Are we worshipping the true God as He is revealed in His word, in Christ, in nature, or ARE WE ADORING SOME PHILOSOPHICAL IDOL ENSHRINED IN HIS PLACE?” - Testimonies for the Church vol. 5, p. 173-174. (Compare Ezekiel 14:3 “Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart”)
@@CJ-zv1bw Wilcox believed in three divine beings. There was no consensus as it pertains to whether or not the Son had a beginning. Some believed He did and others believe He didn’t. Do you agree w Wilcox that the Holy Spirit is a being? Most ATs reject that idea as anathema. That said prolife Andrew debunked that error in his “three holiest beings” video. Now even some AT leaders are admitting that there are three beings.
I see you’ve made your way here Chris. Now most people will know that you are keen to criticise others and also that you don’t answer questions posed to you. Here is an opportunity for you to openly express what you believe is the truth. Do you believe that Jesus had a beginning and that he is in submission to God his father? I’m all for intelligent discussion but when you continue to become a serial opposer and don’t answer questions put to you, I believe you need to be exposed and others be forewarned.
@@lesleymcbow9304 I do not believe that Jesus had a beginning. He is the great I AM, which means an eternal presence. Even non trinitarians like Paul Chung agree on this.
@@chrischung2365 I’ll put this question this way. Is Jesus self existing. Why I say it that way is we know as the son of the living God He must at the very lest be of the same substance. To say He is a son and in reference to before the birth in Bethlehem we can never let go the fact He came from the Father. The Eternal Father, the unchangeable one, gave his only begotten Son, tore from his bosom Him who was made in the express image of his person, and sent him down to earth to reveal how greatly he loved mankind.. RH July 9, 1895, par. 13 John uses the Greek verb root exerchomai (to come out from) six times in this gospel. It appears in several forms-exēlthen, exēlthes and exēlthon-depending on the grammatical tense, person, and mood of the verb. John 8:42 Jesus proceeded forth from God (ek tou theouexēlthon) John 13:3 Jesus had come forth from God (apo theou exēlthen) John 16:27 Jesus came out from God (ego para tou theouexēlthon) John 16:28 Jesus came forth from the Father (exēlthonek/para* tou patros) John 16:30 that you came forth from God (apo theou exēlthes) John 17:8 Jesus came out from the Father (para sou exēlthon) Nestle, Hort-Wescott manuscripts cite ek This word exerchomai has the following definition: “to issue (literally or figuratively): - come-(forth, out), depart (out of), escape, get out, go (abroad, away, forth, out, thence), proceed (forth), spread abroad.” It is composed of two Greek roots: ex- (out as in “exit”) and erhome (come). In the texts above it appears in different inflected forms. While it is true that exerchomai does not mean physical birth in a human sense, Christ’s use of the word is in reference to his relationship with his Father. (remember Jesus is speaking when John quotes him) . If we exclude the six texts above involving Christ and his Father, there is a fairly even balance between those texts that could be interpreted to mean a simple movement from one location to another and those that definitely indicate coming out from being inside something. First we will list those verses which do not indicate what the subject is coming out of something else. Exerchomai usage - to leave something (10 occurrences) Matt 25:1 10 virgins went out (from ?) to meet the bridegroom Mark 1:38 Jesus came out (from ?) to preach Mark 3:21 Jesus’ friends went out (from ?) to seize him Mark 8:11 Pharisees came out (from ?) to question him Mark 14:16 Disciples went out (from ?) to prepare the Passover Luke 8:35 People went out (from ?) to see Jesus John 12:13 People went out (from ?) to meet him John 21:3 Disciples went out (from ?) to go fishing 2Cor 2:13 Paul went out (from ?) into Macedonia John 1:7 They went out (from ?) Even these examples, however, are ambiguous in that the object from which the subject “went out” is not indicated. In some of these it is also possible that they came out from inside of some enclosure. And that is the essential meaning of exerchomai. Now we list those texts were the object from which the subject comes out is actually stated. Exerchomai usage - to go out of something (10 occurrences) Matt 12:44 evil spirit came out of his house Luke 11:24 unclean spirit went out of the man Matt 26:30 The disciples went out from the upper room Mark 14:26 Disciples went out of the upper room John 4:30 people went out of the city Phil 4:15 Paul departed from Macedonia 2John 1:7 Deceivers have gone out from the church into the world Rev 9:3 Locusts came forth out of the smoke Rev 15:6 7 angels came out of the temple Rev 18:4 Come out of her, my people In each of these verses, the subject was initially inside of something, and then came out of it: inside a house, inside a man, inside a room, inside a city, inside a country, inside the church, within the smoke, within the temple, within Babylon. We are thus left to decide how we should understand exerchomai in those texts concerning the Father and Son. We can ignore the essential meaning of the word in the six texts concerning Christ’s coming out from the Father only if we are compelled to change its meaning (because of pre-established convictions) into simply a departure from the immediate presence of the Father, or leaving the vicinity of God. However, these texts are not ambiguous in leaving unidentified the object from which the subject comes out. “God” and “the Father” is plainly stated.
1981 Fundamental beliefs or the 1872 & 1889 Fundamental Principles? Fundamental Principles is by Faith and Biblical Truth vs fundamental beliefs as fallen…. #2 RC pagan Sunday idol, come out of her my people!
While I can accept that most of all you presented in this video is "objective", I submit that one of your statements regarding the Holy Spirit near the end [from the 54:52 mark to the 54:58 mark] of this presentation is "subjective opinion", not fact, and only serves your particular "bias....for I submit further that this understanding has no FOUNDATION in the truth as presented in the INSPIRED record....when same is allowed to interpret itself.
The three angels messages are righteousness by faith in verity. Not revealing the man of sin !!!!! Though the revelation of Jesus Christ will in itself reveal the man of sin . Be careful sir you are on holy ground .
Exactly Pat, No one will be able to have Christ formed within if we reject Him, as the trinity doctrine does. Here is a video from a series that explains that through the writings of Ellen White, EJ Waggoner and AT Jones. ruclips.net/video/lPd5oHAsxp8/видео.html
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus
@globalgreenhouse4424 Yes the bible is clear. Amazing how you omitted to quote from it. Is this your agenda?? Please don't tell us what you say! What you have quoted cannot be backed up in the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy of course!
Praise God the eternal Father and his only begotten Son for the Eternal Truth that you have presented Pastor. The 144,000 are formed and grounded on these Eternal Truth the Foundation of our Faith.
Thank you Pastor, we appreciate the message. Keep preaching the truth.
Praise the Lord 🙏 for His Truth.
-- May we be found faithful at Christ's soon coming.
Thank you pastor Vasko for this most excellent sermon today.
God bless you pastor Vasko
Amen, this is Truth!!
Thank u Lord for a clear , useful sermon.
Thank you. Excellent presentation.
If you believe there are three persons in the Godhead please answer this question regarding the three angels' message. Should we "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come" or should we "Fear THE Gods and give glory to Them, for the hour of Their judgment is come?" Asking for a friend.
Nice question
@@godschosen5312 but is it a good question? Is there a logical answer?
Of course there is a logical answer. To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this Word there is no light in them. Isa 8:20 @@sheilafeazell82
With this question you show that you are still caught in the katholic ontological thinking.
Think like a jew:
Dan.7:13,14 are there 2 powers in heaven?
Jesus to the Pharisees: before Abraham was, "I am" - and the want to kill him because of "blasphemy" - making himself god-like.
This happened at many occasions. If you want to understand who Jesus was, ask his enemies!!
In the OT: intro to Isa53: God comes to his people - but guess who comes? The suffering servant, bearing our iniquity - start to think like a jew😊
HOW INTERESTING! 1889 - D. M. Canright [a prominent leader in Adventism who left the church in 1887] publishes a book, "Seventh-day Adventism Renounced". In the book, on pg 25, he levels against his former brethren stating, "they reject the doctrine of the Trinity".
This appears to be false, but D. M. Canright himself appears to have made the original misstatement that leads to this incorrect conclusion. If I have found a true copy of that book, what he in fact actually said on that page of his book regarding Adventists is that they "believe in the sonship of Christ." He made no mention of the Trinity anywhere on that page. However, in a later article he apparently _said_ that he had made the statement you reference, giving that page as its source. Either there exists another version of his book which he references, or apparently, his memory was at fault, for neither his 1888 edition, nor his 1889 edition of that book (so far as I could ascertain) comes anywhere close to that expression--on any page. The books are available on the archive site online, in PDF form.
His article, published over 25 years later in "The Christian Workers Magazine, Volume 16, 1915 p.84," states the following:
In my book, "Seventh-day Adventism Renounced," page 25, I give a summary of their doctrines and use exactly these words. So I judge you accepted my statement as reliable. I now re-affirm my statement: "They reject the doctrine of the trinity" as held by evangelical churches, as the previous line in my book states.
If our fundamental beliefs they have been changed then I remain into the fundamental law of my Heavenly Father. My only one God can save me today and tomorrow until he comes and no other one.
until he comes? Jesus Christ comes again.
Amen 🙏 🙏 🙏 praise God For the truth 🙏
Wow! This was spoken 9 years ago? What a tragedy! And since then, the conferences have spiraled downward in apostasy... What does that say about witnessing today. Wow!
The SDA church spent 5.5. million $ to make a movie called Let Them Know.The professional actress they hired to portray Ellen White(actresses name is Tommi Amber Perie) performed in lesbian porn movies,demon possession movies,and played Leon Trosky a communist,wife.MarkFinley highly recommended this movie to the youth of the SDA church.Then Finley makes a podcast on how music,eating donuts and drinking coffee by church members will destroy God's church.
Wow. I did not know this about the actress in _Let Them Know_ . Probably not the best choice.
@@SundayKeeper The fact is that this actress did an excellent job of portraying the person of Ellen White; what she has done with her life is her problem alone.
@@Edupier Understood. However, whoever selected the cast for this movie has to be more thoughtful. Perhaps this actress made these other bad decisions after she was cast in this movie.
I read somewhere that to avoid being labeled a “cult” the conference agreed to the trinity doctrine. Not sure if this is true but wanted to share it. Praying for opportunities to share this message and many thanks!
yes the book Kingdom of the cults by dr. Walter Martin
Exactly why I couldn't be a SDA
Read the book “The Heavenly Trio”
By Ty Gibson
@@ericfolks1503 ruclips.net/video/F9znydsTh0k/видео.html
Read "Our Evangelism Earthquake" by Vance Ferrell for an excellent reading in what brought about the changes in many of EGW writings as well as changes in SDA Foundations. Beginning in the late 40s and continuing for years, a great compromise was made to Evangelicals reportedly to avoid the label of "cult.". What a compromise the GC made to Pioneer beliefs.😢
So stay in the boat
God is in control
Which boat? The one that Ellen White and the founders of the church are on??? Or the other one that agrees with JH Kellogg on the trinity and has 28 Fundamental Beliefs???
Check which boat you're on before you stay on it!
@@revelation1790anti trinity nut cases
Thanks Pastor for the explanation. Quick question where can I found the reference you are using ? Thanks !! Gb
45:34
I am so glad that I stick to the simple principle of actually reading the context of every text that is presented in every video I watch. You, dude, have taken the statements out of context to the point that this channel should be called “Kings of Out of Context talk”… where is the thumb down
Repent!
The beauty of facts is that they are plain and simple and cannot be manipulated. The changed in the beliefs is a histori facts, not something taken out of context. Please consider it.
@@S.D.P the EGW quotes are taken out of context. Please consider reading the whole chapter and you will see that she’s talking what would happen if we were to follow the Alpha Apostacy which was “the Living Temple”, not that the last day church will change from what pioneers believed. This video well met be the Omega. I leave it up to you.
@@vrcunEGW was saying if we follow the principle taught in the Living Temple of changing the personality and presence of God that is changing a pillar and not a single pillar should be changed. And yet our pillars have changed. You cannot compare the 1872 or 1889 Fundamental Principles to our current Fundamental Beliefs and not see the changes
@@robertvarnadoe8791 Hi there. Are you saying that today’s church beliefs align with Living Waters?
@@vrcun no. I am saying that as Kellogg's beliefs did away with the pillar doctrine of the personality of God and Christ so has the current belief as stated in the 28 Fundamental Beliefs.
Brother, I greatly appreciate your message as truly Adventist in nature. It is what I am looking for that is missing from the local church. I counsel one thing. You are a person with good physical hearing. I am completely deaf but with the benefit of cochlear implants so I do hear you. What I am thinking is, be careful to not drop your voice with the intent of emphasis to your words. Your message can be compromised for those that are hard of hearing and miss the message. Just a thought.
Thank you for the feedback, will work on that.
In Christ,
Vasko
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the word, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. God bless.
When the power of God testifies to what is truth, the truth is to stand forever as the truth. No after suppositions, contrary to the light God has given are to be entertained. Men will arise with interpretations of Scripture which are to them truth, but which are not truth. THE TRUTH FOR THIS TIME, GOD HAS GIVEN US AS A FOUNDATION FOR OUR FAITH. HE HIMSELF has taught us what is truth. One will arise and still another with new light which contradicts the light that God has given under the demonstration of His Holy Spirit. A few are still alive who passed through the experience gained in the establishment of this truth. God has graciously spared their lives to repeat and repeat till the close of their lives, the experience through which they passed even as did John the apostle till the very close of his life. And the standard bearers who have fallen in death, are to speak through the reprinting of their writings. I am instructed that thus [their] voices are to be heard. They are to bear their testimony as to what constitutes the truth for this time. WE ARE NOT TO RECEIVE THE WORDS OF THOSE WHO COME WITH A MESSAGE THAT CONTRADICTS THE SPECIL POINTS OF OUR FAITH. They gather together a mass of Scripture, AND PILE IT AS PROOF around their asserted theories. THIS HAS BEEN DONE OVER AND OVER AGAIN DURING THE PAST FIFTY YEARS. And while the Scriptures are God's Word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application MOVES ONE PILLAR of the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {PH020 14.2}
Elder Ballenger's proofs are not reliable. If received they would destroy the faith of God's people in the truth that has made us what we are. {PH020 15.1}
We must be decided upon this subject; for the points he is trying to prove by Scripture, are not sound. They do not prove that the past experience of God's people was a fallacy. WE HAD THE TRUTH; we were DIRECTED BY THE ANGELS OF GOD. It was under THE GUIDANCE OF THE Holy Spirit that the presentation of the sanctuary question was given. It is eloquent for everyone to keep silence in regard to the features of our faith, in which they acted no part. GOD NEVER CONTRADICTS HIMSELF. Scripture proofs are misapplied if forced to testify to that which is not true. Another and still another will arise and bring IN SUPPOSEDLY GREAT LIGHT, and make their assertions. But we STAND BY THE OLD LAND-MARKS. We are hindered in our work by men who are not converted WHO SEEK THEIR OWN GLORY. They wish to be thought originators of new theories, which they present claiming that they are truth. But if these theories are received they will lead to a denial of the truth that for the past fifty years God has been giving to this people, substantiating it by the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. (Signed) Ellen G. White. {PH020 15.2}
If we only followed the Bible, as even Ellen White counsels us to understand before reading her writings on a subject, the Trinity would be a non-issue. The Bible is so clear! Consider the following verses which compare God and Christ.
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, ..." (Numbers 23:19; cf. 1 Samuel 15:29) versus "When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?" (Matthew 16:13)
"God is a Spirit: ..." (John 4:24; Jesus' own words) versus "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39; again Jesus' own words)
"...God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) versus "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living." (Romans 14:9)
"...God cannot be tempted with evil, ..." (James 1:13) versus "Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil." (Matthew 4:1)
"No man hath seen God at any time..." (John 1:18; 1 John 4:12). versus "When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not." (Luke 8:28)
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked:..." (Galatians 6:7) versus "And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him." (Luke 22:63) [Yes, people sometimes _think_ to mock God, but the Bible never refers to God being mocked.]
These are just direct comparisons, to say nothing of the places where the Father is said to be "the only true God" (John 17:1-3) and both Jesus' God and our God (John 20:17).
David basically retraced his position after Walter Veith visited him.
How do you know this…. ?
@@beaelleess3892 he made a video
It's so sad. We pray for David Gates & Walter Veith's eyes to be opened by the spirit of Christ.
I have wondered who "chatted" with brother David. His retraction was a sad performance. He looke like a whipped pup in that back-peddle video.
@@Want2cJesus yes
Amen - - about the 'Deformation' taking place. Its a DISGRACE.
It is also frankly disgusting - to see Adventist churches taking on Sunday keeping characteristics -- to preach only smooth things and community. Moving away from fundamental beliefs, and the plain testimony.
The slide on 1889 (pillars 1 & 2) vs 2005 fundamental belief 2 'The Trinity".
Certainly a watering down of the belief.
However, even the 1889 beliefs there are speaking about a trinity - it just does not use that word.
There is God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit -- throughout scripture EACH of these is spoken of as a person. They are only ONE in that they have the same Character, Same Love, Same Goals.
Just as in regard to man and wife...
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Are they a single entity - no. It speaks to their common purposes and views.
---
I do loath the 'deformation' of the church. We have seen the apostacies in the church growing worse and worse.
But even Ellen White herself does not promote us creating offshoots from the Adventist Church.
How much change could be created in the Adventist Church IF we had more people behind keeping God's truths, and not pandering to Satan's agenda, his watering down of the gospel, his sidelining of the need of obedience, and other areas of apostacy.
We need to stand up where ever we are to address these apostacies, while trying to teach others - where we are at; even if now a lone voice in these churches.
In either case -- we are not called to split into the church militant...
"God has a church upon the earth who are His chosen people, who keep His commandments. He is leading, not stray offshoots, not one here and one there, but a people. The truth is a sanctifying power; but the church militant is not the church triumphant. There are tares among the wheat. “Wilt thou then that we ... gather them up?” was the question of the servant; but the master answered, “Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.” The gospel net draws not only good fish, but bad ones as well, and the Lord only knows who are His. It is our individual duty to walk humbly with God. We are not to seek any strange, new message. We are not to think that the chosen ones of God who are trying to walk in the light compose Babylon. Although there are evils existing in the church, and will be until the end of the world, the church in these last days is to be the light of the world that is polluted and demoralized by sin. The church, enfeebled and defective, needing to be reproved, warned, and counseled, is the only object upon earth upon which Christ bestows His supreme regard." Councils For The Church pg. 240.1"
"Some have advanced the thought that, as we near the close of time, every child of God will act independently of any religious organization. But I have been instructed by the Lord that in this work there is no such thing as every man's being independent. [From manuscript read before the delegates at the General Conference Session, Washington, D.C., May 30, 1909.]-Testimonies for the Church 9:257, 258 (1909)."
"As we near the final crisis, instead of feeling that there is less need of order and harmony of action, we should be more systematic than heretofore.-Selected Messages 3:26 (1892)."
How does one split off on the basis of what Ellen White said versus what the 'conference' is promulgating today; ...but then go against what she says regarding there being the need to stand behind the Adventist Church and not splinter. Satan loves to divide and conquer.
RH
From what I understood, you made it seem that there is no difference in the belief between the pioneers and the church today. That is factually incorrect. The doctrine of the trinity is a newly accepted belief. The fundamental principles of 1889 mention the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. We believe in the heavenly trio, which has nothing to do with doctrine of the trinity that adventists uphold today.
As for your second remark, I belive you need to examine it from the following perspective. The organized church of today is the one that separated from the truth. We believe in an organized body of believers that stands upon the Bible and we are working towards that goal.
The "conference" split of from that truth but God will rebuild and will have a people who stand firm and work unitedly.
Hope this helps.
Blessings
Vasko Belovski
I just discovered this channel. Are you faithful members of the CURRENT SDA church or are you alerting people to apostasy in the current SDA church?
Unfortunately, shortly thereafter, Pastor Gates remained Trinitrarian. Evidently, the risks were too high for his interests in his ministry.
Only TWO Beings
‘THEY WERE TWO, yet little short of being identical; two in individuality, yet ONE IN SPIRIT,” - (E.G. White, YI, Dec 16, 1897)
“The ONLY Being who was one with God lived the law in humanity, descended to the lowly life of a common labourer, and toiled at the carpenter's bench with His earthly parent.” - Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, October 14, 1897
“God and Christ ALONE know what the souls of men have cost.” - Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, January 13, 1909
TWO BEINGS
“Can anyone consider the condescension of God in preparing the gospel feast, and its great cost, and treat the invitation slightingly. No man, nor even the highest angel, can estimate the great cost; it is known ONLY to the Father and the Son.” - Ellen G. White, The Bible Echo, October 28, 1895
ONLY TWO BEINGS
“CHRIST the Word, the only-begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,-one in nature, in character, and in purpose,-the ONLY being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. By Christ, the Father wrought in the creation of all heavenly beings.” - Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, p. 493
“But to us there is but ONE God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and ONE Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” 1 Corinthians 8:6
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” John 17:3Y
Lucifer was next in honour to Jesus. [before the fall]
Lucifer in heaven, before his rebellion, was a high and exalted angel, next in honour to God's dear Son.. SR 13.1
Before the fall of Lucifer: (1) “God is a moral governor as well as a Father. He is the Lawgiver. He makes and executes His laws” {12MR 208.2}. (2) “The Son of God was next in authority to the great Lawgiver” {2SP 9.1}.
(3) “Satan was once a covering cherub in the heavenly courts, the angel next in power to Christ Himself” {CTr 200.2}. “Lucifer in heaven, before his rebellion, was a high and exalted angel, next in honour to God’s dear Son” {SR 13.1}.
During the fall of Lucifer: “The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that He might in the presence of all the angels confer special honour upon His Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made known that it was ordained by Himself that Christ, His Son, should be equal with Himself; so that wherever was the presence of His Son, it was as His own presence. The word of the Son was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the Father” {1SP 17.2}. “Satan thought that he was himself a favourite in Heaven among the angels. He had been highly exalted; but this did not call forth from him gratitude and praise to his Creator. He aspired to the height of God himself” {1SP 18.1}. “Satan’s dissatisfaction first commenced in heaven because he could not be first and highest in command - equal with God, exalted above Christ. He rebelled and lost his estate; and he, and those who sympathized with him, were turned out of heaven” {1T 293.3}.
After the fall of Lucifer: Gabriel replaced Lucifer. “It was Gabriel, the angel next in rank to the Son of God, who came with the divine message to Daniel” {DA 234.2}. “The words of the angel, ‘I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God,’ show that he holds a position of high honour in the heavenly courts. ... Wonderful thought - that the angel who stands next in honour to the Son of God is the one chosen to open the purposes of God to sinful men” {DA 99.1}. In the crisis, Gabriel “the mighty angel who stands in God’s presence, occupying the position from which Satan fell, came to the side of Christ” {DA 693.3}.
“God informed Satan that to his Son ALONE he would reveal his secret purposes, and he required all the family in heaven, even Satan, to yield him implicit, unquestioned obedience;” - Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, January 9, 1879
Some Adventists think the order in heaven was (1) Father, (2) Son, (3) Spirit. But inspired writings say that Lucifer was next to the Son of God. The truth is, the Spirit is not a Being or Individual separate from the Father and Son, but Their own Spirit. The Spirit is “the Spirit of your Father” (Matthew 10:20), which Spirit the Son receives from His Father, “for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto Him” (John 3:34), “the Spirit of God” is also “the Spirit of Christ” (Romans 8:9), if you “are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts” (Galatians 4:6), and “the Lord is that Spirit” (2 Corinthians 3:17). “We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ” {Lt66-1894 1.6600}. “The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency, that through His grace we might be complete in Him” {14MR 84.3}. “It is not your spirit that is going into heaven; it is Christ’s spirit” {1888 905.2}. There are only two divine Beings (God and His Son); the Holy Spirit is Their own Spirit.
L
😊 1:41
*THE REMNANT ALREADY EXISTS* (It is not a future group of believers or one that started in 1844)
The "remnant" in its current form has been present for the last 2000 years, but it has always been present in those who are the faithful members of the household of God.
The apostle Paul informs us that the Jews at the time of Christ who had accepted Jesus as messiah are considered the true remnant. Those Jews who were in disbelief of Christ as messiah were broken off so that the rest of the world , the gentile believers, could now be grafted into the true Israel of God. So we who are gentiles who are now grafted into the tree *are also part of the remnant* , which is the true holy root of the olive tree.
Rom 11:5 *_"So too at the PRESENT time there is a remnant, chosen by grace_*
Rom 11:16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and *_if the root is holy, so are the branches_*
Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others *_and now SHARE in the nourishing root of the olive tree_*
The third Angel’ message will not be comprehended , the light which will lighten the earth with its glory will be called false light, by those who refuse to walk in its advancing glory. - RH May 27, 1890
See also May 15, 1888, p. 5 ( “ A Call to A Deeper Study of the Word of God, “ November 1, 1888.) [1 MR56.04] p. 2, para 2, [1888MS]. Goes deeper for those who want to inquire.
Also this is very important!
Great controversy 1858 p. 75, para 1
Where can I find the quote "when I am laid to rest, great changes will take place"? I have the CD Rom but it is not in there?
25LtMs, Ms 1, 1915, par. 2.
She wrote that shortly before she passed.
Heavenly intelligences co-operate with the human agent and impress the truth upon the heart. Abiding in Christ we are able to exert an influence over others; but IT IS BECAUSE OF THE PRESENCE OF HIM who says: “Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” Matthew 28:20. The power we have to overcome Satan is the result of CHRIST WORKING IN US to will and to do of His good pleasure. 6T 399.2
@Kerry Lucks @ Robert Varnadoe Thank you for this quote. Here's another truth-filled video that's very helpful: "What did the SDA Pioneers say about the Trinity doctrine? (Short version)" from Divine Health & Life (SDP)
ruclips.net/video/E3fGSS-erco/видео.html
The remnant is God's choice of the remnant of Israel
God will NOT give up on HIS promises and everlasting covenant to them
Now David Gates seems to be changing his position on Trinity.
The Changes was the Godhead to Trinity. The Godhead is person of our LORD God Jesus Christ Himself alone while the Trinity is three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit who communicate with one another.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus
Do you believe that Jesus is God?
Hi Jonathan,
Good question and here is the detailed answer:
ruclips.net/video/lPd5oHAsxp8/видео.html
Jesus IS God. The Bible says so
@@S.D.P do you believe Jesus was created ?
Where is the link for Remant talk?
"The mystery of the Trinity is the central doctrine of the Catholic Faith. Upon it are based all the other teachings of the church." (Handbook for Today's Catholic, p. 11)
"Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in scripture. But the Protestant Churches have themselves accepted such dogmas, as the Trinity, for which there is no such precise authority in the Gospels." (Graham Greene, [celebrated Catholic Author], Life Magazine, 30 Oct. 1950, p.51 - source)
"As fundamental errors, we might class with this counterfeit sabbath other errors which Protestants have brought away from the Catholic Church, such as sprinkling for baptism, the TRINITY, the conciousness of the dead and eternal life in misery. The mass who have held these fundamental errors, have doubtless done it ignorantly; but can it be supposed that the church of Christ will carry along with her these errors till the judgement scenes burst upon the world? We think not." (James White, Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Sept. 12, 1854, vol. 6, no. 5, page 36.7)
“For the benefit of those who may desire to know more particularly the cardinal features of the faith held by this denomination, we shall state that Seventh-day Adventists believe,- “1. In the divine TRINITY. This TRINITY consists of THE ETERNAL FATHER, a personal, SPIRITUAL BEING, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, THE SON OF THE ETERNAL FATHER, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption.” (F.M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, Oct 9, 1913, pg21)
@@ericfolks1503 Was this what was laid down in the first 50 years?? I think you will find that the SDA church now believes in THREE CO-EQUAL CO-ETERNAL BEINGS. You just need to look up the current Fundamental Beliefs and more to the point what the SDA church believes regarding the TRINITY.
ONLY TWO BEINGS
If Ellen White taught that the Holy Spirit is a third “BEING” or a literal “person” if you prefer, then the following quotes would all reveal three “BEINGS.” But if the Holy Spirit is the person of the Spirit of Christ as per the expression she used that has confused so many, then she will reveal “ONLY” two beings “ALONE” every time without fail.
“The Father and the Son ALONE are to be exalted.” - Ellen G. White, The Youth's Instructor, July 7, 1898 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
Did she say the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ALONE are to be exalted? No she did not!
And again, “God and Christ ALONE know what the souls of men have cost.” - Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, January 13, 1909 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
“God informed Satan that to his Son ALONE he would reveal his secret purposes, and he required all the family in heaven, even Satan, to yield him implicit, unquestioned obedience;” - Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, January 9, 1879 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
“Can anyone consider the condescension of God in preparing the gospel feast, and its great cost, and treat the invitation slightingly? No man, nor even the highest angel, can estimate the great cost; it is known ONLY to the Father and the Son.” - Ellen G. White, The Bible Echo, October 28, 1895
--- ONLY TWO BEINGS
If the Holy Spirit was a third co-equal being then it would also know. But since it is the Spirit of Christ, then not so.
“The ONLY Being who was one with God lived the law in humanity, descended to the lowly life of a common laborer, and toiled at the carpenter's bench with His earthly parent.” - Ellen G. White, Signs of the Times, October 14, 1897 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
“CHRIST the Word, the only-begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,-one in nature, in character, and in purpose,-the ONLY being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. By Christ, the Father wrought in the creation of all heavenly beings.” - Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, p. 493 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
A Trinitarian cannot make any of these statements above. There can be no doubt that Ellen White declares that there are “ONLY” two beings “ALONE” as the third entity is not a third BEING but the Spirit of Christ. All the above is just a small example of what could be given. Ellen White not only states hundreds of times in different ways that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, and hence not a third being, but she also confirms that there are only two beings.
"God is our Father, Christ is our Saviour. See 2 Peter 1:16-21." - Ms43, p. 1896.7, Dec. 27, 1896
ONLY TWO BEINGS
How many beings does the Bible say there are? “But to us there is but ONE God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and ONE Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” 1 Corinthians 8:6 --- ONLY TWO BEINGS
@@ericfolks1503
MORE APOSTASY FROM ADVENTIST THEOLOGIANS:
“The divine beings entered into the roles they had agreed upon before the foundations of the world were laid.” - Gordon Jensen - Adventist Review, October 31, 1996 p.12
“The Father-Son relationship in the Godhead should be understood in a metaphorical sense, not in a literal sense.”- Max Hatton - Understanding the Trinity, p.97
“Jesus became the Son of God at His human birth.” - Max Hatton - Understanding the Trinity, p.97
“They also took certain positions or roles to carry out the provisions of the plan.” - Pastor Holbrook - These Times - Our Times, Frank Answers - June 1981
“The Father seems to act as a source, the Son [act] as a mediator, and the Spirit [act] as actualizer or applier.” Seventh-day Adventists Believe… A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines, 1988 - p24
“In the economy of function, different members of the Godhead perform distinct tasks in saving man.” Seventh-day Adventists Believe.. A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines, 1988 - p.24
“THEY HAVE TAKEN DIFFERENT ROLES OR POSITIONS IN THE GODHEAD’S WORK OF CREATION, REDEMPTION AND THE LIVING ADMINISTRATION OF THE UNIVERSE.” - Woodrow Whidden - The Trinity, p. 243
“The Son is not the natural, literal Son of the Father. … The term “Son” is used metaphorically when applied to the Godhead.” Angel Manuel Rodriguez, Adventist World, November 2015 issue, p.42
Thank you for pointing out the differences. But there is something that you did not cover in this presentation.
1889:
I - That there is one God, a personal, spiritual being, THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS
II - That there is one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Eternal Father, the by whom HE CREATED ALL THINGS, and by whom they do consist
If God created all things and Jesus created all things, are they not ONE?
By the way I think it's wrong for SDAs to use the word TRINITY
Two individuals, one in spirit and purpose. Jesus is the begotten Son of His Father.
God created all things by His Son Jesus Christ:
“And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:” (Ephesians 3:9)
The second temple was not honored with the cloud of Jehovah's glory, but with the living presence of One in whom dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily-who was God Himself manifest in the flesh. GC 24.2
@@franklinsitompul6927 Why does all the fullness of the Godhead dwell in Christ? “For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;” (Colossians 1:19)
As the Son of God, Jesus is truly God in infinite nature (as you inherited the same nature as your father), but He is not God in personality (as you are not your father).
“The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is truly God in infinity, but not in personality.” (20LtMs, Ms 116, 1905, par. 19)
If Ellen White was so very wrong about the Trinity (and she was) its impossible for SDA's to uphold her words as divine ispired word of God. Also, if you are to believe and teach that you have a huge problem. Islam! They also have a prophet that claims to have had visions and received divine guidance, new truths and inspired writings.
Hinduism and Momonism likewise.
Want TRUTH? Just stick to the true inspired word of God within the pages of the bible. Ypu and many other religions have commity the cardinal sin of Adding to and Taking from Gods word.
The great dissspointment was clearly a time to repent but sadly an elaborate cover-up story wss invented. A story not recorded in scripture. I hope and pray that God continues to bring you out of error and use you mightily. So very much of what you do and what you teach is wonderful.
"Your house will be left to you desolate."
What year did the trinity teachings start?
What year did the SDA Church accept the (mark) 501c3?
In 1913 we published a trinitarian statement of beliefs:
“For the benefit of those who may desire to know more particularly the cardinal features of the faith held by this denomination, we shall state that Seventh-day Adventists believe,- 1. In the divine Trinity. This Trinity consists of the eternal Father, a personal, spiritual being, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the eternal Father, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, 9th October 1913,)
It started with J.H. Kellogg, it was the alpha of apostasy in the early 1900's.
@@chrischung2365no we didn't. One person summed up his belief whether right or wrong. It wasn't a statement from the church. You continue to be dishonest in your telling of history.
@@robertvarnadoe8791 the 1872 statement was written by just one person. According to Pastor Vasko, this person was Uriah Smith. Uriah would later in life publish the following statement that makes it clear that he believed in a trinity:
YET in the formula for baptism, the name ” Holy Ghost,” or “Holy Spirit,” is associated with that of the Father and the Son. And if the name can be thus used, why could it not properly stand as a part of the same TRINITY in the hymn of praise, ” Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost ” (Uriah Smith, RH Oct 27, 1896)
Why are these facts not disclosed?
@@chrischung2365 the difference between the 1872 Fundamental Principles and the Wilcox quote is that the FP specifically stated that is what the church believed whereas Wilcox statement was just his idea.
As far as Wilcox believing in the trinity you yet again show your dishonesty. It has been shown to you time and again that the word trinity in Adventist writings can just mean a set of three and not the doctrinal position of a 3 in 1 God or tritheism.
For this is life eternal that they may know thee(god the father)the only true God and Jesus Christ (begotten son) though has send.
Only 2 divine beings, that 3rd God is Lucifer, He wants to be worshipped as God,
You are so wrong about the so-called Trinity my brother pastor Vasko. I think elder David Gates when he mentioned the trinity in the sermon that you quoted, it was in the context of using the wrong term. The bible talk of the Godhead as opposed to the Trinity. Trinity is a Catholic doctrine. According to the bible, the Godhead consists of God the Father, God the Son(Jesus Christ) and God the Holy Spirit. The biblical references are so many and I just cannot understand how someone like you who clearly are clued about the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy could have missed that unless you are in denial about the Godhead as given in the bible. Please do not mislead people about things that are not true.
Actually, the Bible does not teach about one God in three persons. The Bible teaches that there is one God, the Father, who has an only begotten Son, and is everywhere present by His Holy spirit.
You mentioned that the biblical references are so many, yet nowhere in the bible do we see that there is one God in three persons, or that Jesus isn't His Son.
The same can be said about the testimonies. This is why it was pointed in the presentation to see the difference between the beliefs Ellen White ascribed to and the beliefs of today. Blessings
Vasko
Here below are the Biblical references and also extracts from the Spirit of Prophecy which proves what I am saying. You are so wrong pastor Vasko. The Bible is very clear and the Spirit of Prophecy confirms what the Bible is saying. I do not know what you mean by "beliefs of today". We go by what the Bible says not by the beliefs of today whatever they are
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(The verse is clearly talking about Christ)
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (This is one of the clearest statements of the deity of Christ anywhere in the Bible)
Because the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ, Jesus could rightly claim that He and the Father are “one” (John 10:30). Because the fullness of God’s divine essence is present in the Son of God, Jesus could say to Philip, “Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).
“No one has ever seen God, but the One and only Son”, who is Himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made Him known (John 1:18; Hebrews 1:3).
John 17:21
that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
John 5:26
For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
I could give more verses but I think these ones will suffice
Now let us hear the confirmation from the Spirit of Prophecy:
“The work of salvation is not a small matter, but so vast that the highest authorities are taken hold of by the expressed faith of the human agent. The eternal Godhead-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost-is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”-Upward Look, 148.
“The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the three holy dignitaries of heaven, have declared that they will strengthen men to overcome the powers of darkness. All the facilities of heaven are pledged to those who by their baptismal vows have entered into a covenant with God.”-5 Bible Commentary, 1110. (Manuscript 92,1901).
In the great closing work we shall meet with perplexities that we know not how to deal with; but let us not forget that the Three Great Powers of Heaven are working.” 8 Testimonies 254
“The three powers of the Godhead have pledged Their might to carry out the purpose that God had in mind when He gave to the world the unspeakable gift of His Son.”-EGW, 5 Review, 341.
The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave Themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order fully to carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only begotten Son of God, should give Himself an offering for sin. What line can measure the depth of this love?”-Counsels on Health, 222.
“There are three living Persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-Those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.”-Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, 63. (Evangelism, 615.
“The work is laid out before every soul that has acknowledged his faith in Jesus Christ by baptism, and has become a receiver of the pledge from the three Persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.”-6 Bible Commentary, 1074.
“In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, man is laid in his watery grave, buried with Christ in baptism, and raised from the water to live the new life of loyalty to God The three great powers in heaven are witnesses; they are invisible but present.”-Manuscript 57, 1900 (6 Bible Commentary, 1074).
To global greenhouse....speaking the truth in love...please tell us the verses in the Bible that contain the phrases God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and then compare all those verses to the ones that contain the phrase God the Father. Do we now get a clear picture of what the Bible teaches on regard to this subject? When men put their touted higher learning upon the plain, simple language of Scripture the picture becomes cloudy. The Jews to whom these sacred writings were entrusted understood that the one true God mentioned in the very first commandment conveyed to them a book that was simple enough that they were ...and as we are ...instructed to teach these words to our children. Hear Oh children...the Lord our God is One Lord. One in Hebrew and in English means one ...not three.Also please note that Godhead is defined as divinity...a quality...not a quantity. I hope and pray that you will also study ALL the verses on this subject as well as allow EGW writings....the evidence for the nontrinitarian teachings of The Bible and SOP are overwhelming and the supposed passages which seemingly point to a Trinity are so few in comparison.....examine the weight of evidence my brother.
@@godschurch8332 I see no reason for the controversy over this issue. I am just an ordinary SDA member who understands what the bible is clearly telling us about the Godhead. I believe the bible verses and the SOP quotes I have given here above are sufficient for anyone to see what the bible teaches about the Godhead. Very clear and unambiguous. Either we choose to accept the clear teachings of the bible or we don't, as simple as that.
Read “The Heavenly Trio”
Written by Ty Gibson
Isn't David Gates still trinitarian?
Why we need to be BAPTISED in the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost? Is not one enough? Why other 2? Please someone help me to understand this.
Also, Why during creation, God used word “US” or OUR? Did God need someone else to help Him to create?
Do you think, if US was needed to create, there will be US to SAVE?
Friends, only one way to understand Godhead is to know what is SIN and How God is dealing with it.
We won’t never waste energy trying to explain Trinity/Trio or Godhead. Always when I speak to my friends, I ask them: do you understand what is SIN? How God is dealing with it? What is God’s Image? How It was lost and how to bring it back in you & me. Is not this very important topic to spend time with?
SIN is our common enemy and God is in process to get it away! How? Which way? Through the Son and the Holy Ghost. Example:
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me. John 15:26
I can’t see how God will end this work of redemption without Unity of 3. Father, Son and Holy Ghost. If you take one down, I don’t how you can replace that place.
God bless
I had the same question, but it was explained perfectly by pastor Nader Mansour "prove all things" here on RUclips, and to answer one of your questions, if you and I " only us 2" were about to create anything, lets say a painting for instance, i would say to you, let US go gather the materials to create this self portrait of US, so us is 2 people, me and you, God the Father and Jesus His Son "2 people" created adam and eve "2 people" in their likeness, THEY "2 people" did not create 3 people, only 2, hope this helps brother or sister, as it helped me tremendously when i came out of the trinity lie and had to unlearn the lies and seek diligently for Gods truth. We have to worship Him in spirit AND in truth, for the Father seeks those who do. God bless you 🙏 in your journey my friend.
Adventist belief is progressive and we build upon that foundation. David Gates is twisting information after quotations. Changes are the result of bible studies and the man of sin context is what we are quick to cling to, to accuse what is right that is biblical. The man of sin context is different from expounding truth that the Adventist church is studying. It is not the purpose of our church leaders to deter us from the truth but to understand the bible not tradition.
SDP only teaches 1 thing. And never the Godhead from the bible and the SOP. That is how you can see the wind of doctrine is blowing SDP
Now I listened carefully to all you said and I appreciate your zeal for the church and the truth!
But
What you have done is talking about the history of the bakery but not given any bread.
You have pointed out - quite superficially I think - that there is change, but never come to a theological ground or argument.
The early paradigm, "do you have new light brother", a paradigm of change is ignored.
You might not be the only one battling for the contemporary meaning of the church in a world facing the end of time.
But I believe this cannot be done by ONLY looking backwards.
Please provide more "beef", or soja if you like, but get onto a theological and exegetical basis when you talk about bible-truths.
And these three Powers of heaven are three distinct Personas who each exist in their own right. The term God is like a title more like Management as in an organisation and within that organisation you will have HR Manager, Finance Manager and so forth and so on. So in heaven we have God who is referred as one which as I have indicated is like a title but within that title of Godhead we have these three powers of heaven. The bible is very clear about that. Noone cannot miss that unless they simply refuse to accept the clear teachings of the bible or they have an agenda of their own.
Oh please globalgreenhouse4424 can you state the exact quote otherwise it is just your surmising!
So regarding the three angels message … we should fear the Gods and give glory to them, for the hour of their judgment has come??
You need to get to your point.You're just Babbling
The modern version of the word, ‘remnant’ has lost it’s original meaning, in the minds of the so-called educators of a new doctrine or understanding of the phase ‘remnant church’! This metamorphosis process of transformation, was most definitely all part of a creeping compromise; especially as a result of an unholy indifference to the pure simple beauty of the truth.
What Pastor Vasko left out of his sermon:
“For the benefit of those who may desire to know more particularly the cardinal features of the faith held by this denomination, we shall state that Seventh-day Adventists believe,- 1. In the divine Trinity. This Trinity consists of the eternal Father, a personal, spiritual being, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the eternal Father, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, 9th October 1913,)
The trouble is with a lot of people today is that they are using the word ‘trinity’ without properly explaining what they mean by it. Why people should get excited over Wilcox writing that SDA’s believe in a divine trinity I have no idea. Something like 21 years earlier in 1892, the SDA Church published a tract for the public called ‘The Bible Doctrine of the Trinity’. It was made available for about 25 years. It was a re-print of an article written by a Presbyterian minister by the name of Samuel Spear. Why therefore get excited about Wilcox using the word ‘trinity’ in 1913?
Wilcox certainly DID NOT EXPLAIN his “divine Trinity” as in the trinity doctrine of today. We know this because 18 years AFTER his 1913 “divine Trinity” statement, he wrote an apology for previously saying, in the Review and Herald, that Christ was the “one and only true God”. This is what he wrote in his apology
“When we referred to Christ as the “one and only true God,” the thought in mind was to contrast Him with the gods of the heathen world.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, October 29 1931 pg. 3, ‘Christ is Very God’)
If this is what Wilcox meant he should have said so. As it was, he made no mention of this in his article. Hence Wilcox confessed:
“The expression was not properly elucidated, and so was unfortunate.” (Ibid)
After his apology, Wilcox went on to explain the ‘trinity’ he was advocating (that which he claimed was held by SDA’s). Here is what he said
“We recognize the divine Trinity,- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,-each possessing a distinct and separate personality, but one in nature and in purpose, so welded together in this infinite union that the apostle James speaks of them as “one God.” James 2:19. THIS DIVINE UNITY IS SIMILAR TO THE UNITY EXISTING BETWEEN CHRIST AND THE BELIEVER, AND BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT BELIEVERS IN THEIR FELLOWSHIP IN CHRIST JESUS.” (Ibid)
This is very important. This is because it explains how, in the 1930’s, SDA’s understood “the divine Trinity”. Wilcox had made these remarks under the sub-heading of The Trinity Explained.
This statement by Wilcox completely invalidates the claim made by some that SDA’s in general, were, at that time (1931), believers in the trinity doctrine. This is whether as espoused by what is known as mainstream Christianity, or as held by the present-day (2020) SDA Church. This is because in explaining “the divine trinity”, Wilcox says that the “divine unity” between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is similar to the unity between “Christ and the believer”, also as between fellow Christians. How can this possibly be representative of how the trinity doctrine explains this unity? No true trinitarian would ever make such a statement.
Wilcox therefore, when saying “divine Trinity”, could not have been expressing a belief in the trinity doctrine. This is because the trinity doctrine says (as explained by our theologians)
“There is only one God (Deut. 6:4), however, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all called God (Matthew 27:46, John 20:28: Acts 5:3-4). Consequently, we do not worship three Gods, but one God who reveals Himself in and consists of three “persons”. THE THREE PERSONS SHARE ONE INDIVISIBLE NATURE. Each person of the Godhead is by nature and essence God, and the fullness of the deity dwells in each of them. ON THE OTHER HAND, EACH PERSON OF THE GODHEAD IS INSEPARABLY CONNECTED TO THE OTHER TWO.” (Ekkehardt Mueller, Biblical Research Institute, Reflections newsletter, July 2008, Page 8, ‘Scripture Applied, - A Bible Study’)
This is one the trinity doctrines that is being espoused by a Seventh-day Adventist theologian. (Learn more about the modern SDAs view of Trinity doctrine HERE) It is NOT how Wilcox explained the SDA trinity - and that was in 1931.
Wilcox also said in his ‘apology’
“There has been through the centuries some very unfortunate and speculative teaching regarding the divine Trinity, and these philosophies have created great divisions in the Christian church.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, October 29 1931, ‘Christ is Very God’)
“No outward shrines may be visible, there may be no image for the eye to rest upon, YET WE MAY BE PRACTICING IDOLATRY . . . Thousands have a false conception of God and His attributes. They are as verily serving a false god as were the servants of Baal. Are we worshipping the true God as He is revealed in His word, in Christ, in nature, or ARE WE ADORING SOME PHILOSOPHICAL IDOL ENSHRINED IN HIS PLACE?” - Testimonies for the Church vol. 5, p. 173-174. (Compare Ezekiel 14:3 “Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart”)
@@CJ-zv1bw Wilcox believed in three divine beings. There was no consensus as it pertains to whether or not the Son had a beginning. Some believed He did and others believe He didn’t. Do you agree w Wilcox that the Holy Spirit is a being? Most ATs reject that idea as anathema. That said prolife Andrew debunked that error in his “three holiest beings” video. Now even some AT leaders are admitting that there are three beings.
I see you’ve made your way here Chris. Now most people will know that you are keen to criticise others and also that you don’t answer questions posed to you. Here is an opportunity for you to openly express what you believe is the truth. Do you believe that Jesus had a beginning and that he is in submission to God his father?
I’m all for intelligent discussion but when you continue to become a serial opposer and don’t answer questions put to you, I believe you need to be exposed and others be forewarned.
@@lesleymcbow9304 I do not believe that Jesus had a beginning. He is the great I AM, which means an eternal presence. Even non trinitarians like Paul Chung agree on this.
@@chrischung2365 I’ll put this question this way. Is Jesus self existing. Why I say it that way is we know as the son of the living God He must at the very lest be of the same substance. To say He is a son and in reference to before the birth in Bethlehem we can never let go the fact He came from the Father.
The Eternal Father, the unchangeable one, gave his only begotten Son, tore from his bosom Him who was made in the express image of his person, and sent him down to earth to reveal how greatly he loved mankind.. RH July 9, 1895, par. 13
John uses the Greek verb root exerchomai (to come out from) six times in this gospel. It appears in several forms-exēlthen, exēlthes and exēlthon-depending on the grammatical tense, person, and mood of the verb.
John 8:42 Jesus proceeded forth from God (ek tou theouexēlthon) John 13:3 Jesus had come forth from God (apo theou exēlthen) John 16:27 Jesus came out from God (ego para tou theouexēlthon) John 16:28 Jesus came forth from the Father (exēlthonek/para* tou patros) John 16:30 that you came forth from God (apo theou exēlthes) John 17:8 Jesus came out from the Father (para sou exēlthon)
Nestle, Hort-Wescott manuscripts cite ek
This word exerchomai has the following definition:
“to issue (literally or figuratively): - come-(forth, out), depart (out of), escape, get out, go (abroad, away, forth, out, thence), proceed (forth), spread abroad.”
It is composed of two Greek roots: ex- (out as in “exit”) and erhome (come).
In the texts above it appears in different inflected forms.
While it is true that exerchomai does not mean physical birth in a human sense, Christ’s use of the word is in reference to his relationship with his Father. (remember Jesus is speaking when John quotes him) .
If we exclude the six texts above involving Christ and his Father, there is a fairly even balance between those texts that could be interpreted to mean a simple movement from one location to another and those that definitely indicate coming out from being inside something. First we will list those verses which do not indicate what the subject is coming out of something else.
Exerchomai usage - to leave something (10 occurrences)
Matt 25:1 10 virgins went out (from ?) to meet the bridegroom Mark 1:38 Jesus came out (from ?) to preach Mark 3:21 Jesus’ friends went out (from ?) to seize him Mark 8:11 Pharisees came out (from ?) to question him Mark 14:16 Disciples went out (from ?) to prepare the Passover Luke 8:35 People went out (from ?) to see Jesus John 12:13 People went out (from ?) to meet him John 21:3 Disciples went out (from ?) to go fishing 2Cor 2:13 Paul went out (from ?) into Macedonia John 1:7 They went out (from ?)
Even these examples, however, are ambiguous in that the object from which the subject “went out” is not indicated. In some of these it is also possible that they came out from inside of some enclosure. And that is the essential meaning of exerchomai. Now we list those texts were the object from which the subject comes out is actually stated.
Exerchomai usage - to go out of something (10 occurrences)
Matt 12:44 evil spirit came out of his house Luke 11:24 unclean spirit went out of the man Matt 26:30 The disciples went out from the upper room Mark 14:26 Disciples went out of the upper room John 4:30 people went out of the city Phil 4:15 Paul departed from Macedonia 2John 1:7 Deceivers have gone out from the church into the world Rev 9:3 Locusts came forth out of the smoke Rev 15:6 7 angels came out of the temple Rev 18:4 Come out of her, my people
In each of these verses, the subject was initially inside of something, and then came out of it: inside a house, inside a man, inside a room, inside a city, inside a country, inside the church, within the smoke, within the temple, within Babylon. We are thus left to decide how we should understand exerchomai in those texts concerning the Father and Son.
We can ignore the essential meaning of the word in the six texts concerning Christ’s coming out from the Father only if we are compelled to change its meaning (because of pre-established convictions) into simply a departure from the immediate presence of the Father, or leaving the vicinity of God. However, these texts are not ambiguous in leaving unidentified the object from which the subject comes out. “God” and “the Father” is plainly stated.
1981 Fundamental beliefs or the 1872 & 1889 Fundamental Principles? Fundamental Principles is by Faith and Biblical Truth vs fundamental beliefs as fallen…. #2 RC pagan Sunday idol, come out of her my people!
And go where...?
While I can accept that most of all you presented in this video is "objective", I submit that one of your statements regarding the Holy Spirit near the end [from the 54:52 mark to the 54:58 mark] of this presentation is "subjective opinion", not fact, and only serves your particular "bias....for I submit further that this understanding has no FOUNDATION in the truth as presented in the INSPIRED record....when same is allowed to interpret itself.
The statements from 54.52 to 54.58 are what the church teaches, a third coequal called "God the Holy Spirit." That is not subjective opinion.
The three angels messages are righteousness by faith in verity. Not revealing the man of sin !!!!! Though the revelation of Jesus Christ will in itself reveal the man of sin . Be careful sir you are on holy ground .
Exactly Pat,
No one will be able to have Christ formed within if we reject Him, as the trinity doctrine does. Here is a video from a series that explains that through the writings of Ellen White, EJ Waggoner and AT Jones.
ruclips.net/video/lPd5oHAsxp8/видео.html
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus
Sadly the most disregard person in the church is the most right.
Walter J. Veith.
Explaining the truth of E.G.W. for today time.
@globalgreenhouse4424 Yes the bible is clear. Amazing how you omitted to quote from it. Is this your agenda?? Please don't tell us what you say! What you have quoted cannot be backed up in the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy of course!
Unfortunately, this is one more misguided brother on the fringe cluttering and misleading SDA church with non-issues, for self-agrandisement.😢